Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Greetings, all. FWIW, here are my initial thoughts and comments on GMIP and its niw. The first time I ran GIMP after the introduction I only wanted to run something from the toolbox menu. I was surprised when I closed the unwanted window and found that GIMP went away. I find I'm having a little trouble adjusting to the relocation of menus from the Toolbox to the niw. This is due to menus that were on top of each other under Xtns (for example) now appearing side by side. I'm slowly getting used to the new layout. The two DnD targets seemed redundant at first until I realized the one in the niw disappears when it becomes a regular image window. As I never use DnD with GIMP the target area at the top of the Toolbox windows is just wasted space. I don't need to have Wilber staring out at me from the top of the Toolbox so it would be nice if there was an option to turn off display of the DnD target in the Toolbox. I have image window menus turned off in my preferences. However, the niw still shows a menu bar. I don't have a problem with that as the menu bar still goes away once I have opened an image. Having the menu bar always appear in the niw is something that will help new users. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress...
Hi, On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 14:54 +, Laxminarayan Kamath wrote: > People using mc should not worry about drag and drop. They should use > "Menu(F9)>Commands>Edit extensions file" and friends and add > gimp-remote as handler for extensions you want. With gimp-2.4, the use of gimp-remote is deprecated, at least on the Linux platform. You can just call gimp directly (provided that you are running a DBus session daemon, but that is the case on pretty much all Linux desktops nowadays). Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress...
People using mc should not worry about drag and drop. They should use "Menu(F9)>Commands>Edit extensions file" and friends and add gimp-remote as handler for extensions you want. If I am not wrong that is the mail reason gimp-remote was developed. If I continue about MC, I am afraid it will be offtopic. -- Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal http://lankerisms.blogspot.com (+91) 9945036093 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress...
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > the Open dialog is a poor replacement for a file manager. If you only > use it as a drag source, then why not just use your file manager > instead? ... My file manager is Midnight Commander :) I've just tried Rox-Filer, and it looks good, I'll try it. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress...
Hi, the Open dialog is a poor replacement for a file manager. If you only use it as a drag source, then why not just use your file manager instead? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress...
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > > On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 09:27 +1030, David Gowers wrote: > > > The 'Open' window can remain up as you DnD items from it to the > > toolbox. > > Yes, this works. And if you like it, then please continue to use the > Open dialog in this way. But it is certainly not the recommended use. If > you want to open multiple files, just select multiple files, then press > the button labelled "Open". > I liked to do that, then it stopped working consistently, and sometimes it would open all the files, and sometimes only the last one I selected. Seems to be working okay now, it might have been a glitch in my GTK+ build. In any case, my workflow typically involves projects with multiple related images that I need to check and adjust for consistency, which leads me to open and close small selections of files sporadically. I still recommend the method I mentioned, for such a workflow. If I could open multiple files *without* the Open dialog automatically closing, then I would unconditionally recommend your method. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress...
Hi, On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 09:27 +1030, David Gowers wrote: > The 'Open' window can remain up as you DnD items from it to the > toolbox. Yes, this works. And if you like it, then please continue to use the Open dialog in this way. But it is certainly not the recommended use. If you want to open multiple files, just select multiple files, then press the button labelled "Open". Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress...
Hi all, On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Kevin Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > jbaker wrote: > > o What would really be nice and make the dropzone a lot more > > usable... if there is was a file browser built into it... > > split the niw vertically, put a file browser on one side, > > and dropzone and whatever else on the other side... > > I don't understand why you would want to do that? If you need a file browser, > use the File->Open menu item .. The 'Open' window can remain up as you DnD items from it to the toolbox. Rather important to know for this jbaker's use case, and I didn't find it obvious (the 'Open' button is obvious, and in fact deterred me from investigating DnD because it lead me to assume that that was the dialog's main functionality and it had no DnD. Does GIMP suggest to DnD in a tooltip? If it can, I think it should.) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 'no image' window: progress ...
jbaker wrote: > o What would really be nice and make the dropzone a lot more > usable... if there is was a file browser built into it... > split the niw vertically, put a file browser on one side, > and dropzone and whatever else on the other side... I don't understand why you would want to do that? If you need a file browser, use the File->Open menu. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 13:27 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: > You're assuming, as usual, that a final user should compile the svn > code, know how to deal with the installed version and the development > version in the same machine, etc. Otherwise the user can't speak his mind. I am assuming that people subscribed here, and actively taking place in the discussions, are GIMP developers. This is a developer list. If we wanted feedback from users, we had asked on the gimp-user list. And we will do that. But before this can happen we need to finish some more things and do a 2.5.0 development release. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Hi, On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 13:41 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > so why are they greyed out ? They aren't. That's the wrong assumption you are making. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
> > As you can see from the responses to your mail, there are quite a few > trolls on this list who aren't even willing to try the new stuff. > Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten so many responses that are obviously > based on wrong assumptions and that clearly show that people have not > followed your invitation to try the stuff in SVN. > Your comment is, as usual, insulting. It's not clear in the first Peter's message that the changes are already in SVN. He talks about concept and specification. So I just checked the wiki and, based on what is described there, gave my oppinion. In the same wiki Peter asks for feedback (but since it's a closed wiki, the only feedback we can give is using this list). You're assuming, as usual, that a final user should compile the svn code, know how to deal with the installed version and the development version in the same machine, etc. Otherwise the user can't speak his mind. Personally, I think I would be able to compile myself gimp in my machine, but I don't know how that would affect my current installation. And, since I'm an end user, I use gimp for my everyday work and can't change my working installation to an unstable version. I try to contribute from my place, but it's clear that this kind of contribution is not welcome. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:54:59 +0100, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 15:31 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: >> About the graying out toolbox, dockers and elements not used when no >> image is open, I think it breaks a functionality that is already present >> in gimp: the ability to custumize the interface (moving dialogs to >> dockers, changing the dimensions and position of elements, etc.) >> That's, imo, a regression. Having to open an image to be able to >> customize the interface adds an extra step that has no purpose. > > You are making some wrong assumptions here. The toolbox is fully > functional and so are the docks. Nothing prevents you from doing all the > things that you could have done without an image opened. They do all > still work and will continue to work. > so why are they greyed out ? it is a fairly universally established metaphore that greyed out means disabled. I dont think they should be disabled but the current situation seems to be niether on nor the other and in being a non standard state will confuse the user (as the earlier comment demonstrates). If they are active and have a ligitimate function in this context why are they grey? /gg > > Sven > > > ___ > Gimp-developer mailing list > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > -- .*. /V\ (/ \) ( ) ^^_^^ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Hi, On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 15:31 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: > About the graying out toolbox, dockers and elements not used when no > image is open, I think it breaks a functionality that is already present > in gimp: the ability to custumize the interface (moving dialogs to > dockers, changing the dimensions and position of elements, etc.) > That's, imo, a regression. Having to open an image to be able to > customize the interface adds an extra step that has no purpose. You are making some wrong assumptions here. The toolbox is fully functional and so are the docks. Nothing prevents you from doing all the things that you could have done without an image opened. They do all still work and will continue to work. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ?no image? window: progress...
Guillermo wrote: > About the graying out toolbox, dockers and elements not used when no > image is open, I think it breaks a functionality that is already > present > in gimp: the ability to custumize the interface (moving dialogs to > dockers, changing the dimensions and position of elements, etc.) the customisation is specified to work with no image open. > The drop zone still makes me wonder. I can't avoid seeing it like the > photoshop gray background. You say that gimmicks should be avoided but > there is a button for the tip of the day at the bottom, wich apart of > being some kind of gimmick, changes the morphology of the status bar. I spend a lot of time thinking about the tips, because it seemed so integrated with the no-image situation. Tips (no longer of the day) are a good thing, as long as these tips are targeted to bring intermediates to expert level. So I want to promote them. But soon I realised that tips are like cups of coffee: If you like coffee in the first place, then a couple of cups during a working day with GIMP is great. But no one should not be forced to drink one every time one closes an image. So I set out to tickle curiosity by offering a tip in the no-image- window. Showing the tip in that window also means there is no price to pay (an extra window opening) for seeing one. Users can consume a tip when they feel like it, which is probably when no image is open (break). While integrating the tip "switch" in the no-image-window, I was placing it elsewhere but this empty space in the status bar, where normally the unit and zoom sit was just shouting at me. So there is went. As you can see I have created something that encourages use, but without the need to 'click it away (forever)' which other schemes suffer from. > I wonder... the point is to look broader. There is loads of patterns in working that I have to support. And quite a bit of that goes on outside GIMP. The is why the no-image-window is freely resizable to fit everybody's desktop integration needs, it is now wilber branded to help with the drag & drop (see wilber? drop the files) as is the toolbox. it is also very Spartan to get on nobody's nerves and to be freely resizable (did I mention that before?). And all the normal ways of working with files work when you see one. That was the point. --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
