Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
On 9/28/06, Manish Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't get where the expectation that postings from gimp.org addressesshould be considered as anything but the individual _expression_ of theauthor. Expecting a volunteer organization to have a rigid public face is ridiculous.When I initially joined the list several years ago I was disappointed in the attitude of one/some "gimp.org" posters because I thought they were in some way associated with the project. There was too much noise and disrespect so I left the list because of it (but have since re-joined). Personally I don't think it is an unreasonable expectation that someone with a gimp.org email is associated with the project. It may be ridiculous to expect a "rigid" public face, but I think the public should expect the project to have a respectable face. Can we please stop cluttering the development mailing list with thisnow? The project has a problem. Several people have pointed out the problem. Although not explicitly stated, I would think the purpose of the developer list is to discuss project issues.-- Tim Jedlicka, Network Entomologist [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.galifree.com ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 07:31:56PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: > > I am not really willing to ignore this issue any longer. I have had > several reports from people who received mails from [EMAIL PROTECTED] that > can be described as very irritating, to say the least. I think that we > can not any longer ignore this problem. I have asked Carol multiple > times to stop sending such mails, or at least not to use the gimp.org > mail alias for it. She has ignored these requests and did it again. What > do you suggest that we do? > i am curious if this mail actually came from me. i had a bad time in my life. really really really bad. that being said, i can be expected to be as patient with people who might be having a similar bad time. being let down by people you tried to be friends with is a horrible thing. i can thank my newer california 'friends' for this new understanding of how this world works and my ability to overlook it. right now, the mail i send is to gimp lists and also to old friends and family. there is a huge group of users on the old wilber computer. i can provide a list of these people. i am willing to guess that anyone of them would be more capable than me of hacking the mail server there. i find it additionally interesting the people who are new to gimp who have user space there. i was under the impression that wilbers space was very limited and indeed, there is not the space there for gtk to put their tarballs and the new computer sits dead here. can you share the complaint mail with me? i believe that i am fully capable of being able to determine what mail i authored and what mail i did not author. i even think that it would be useful to look at how the security of the berkeley host is. if you are unable to do this, can you shut up please? it would be interesting to see if the complaints are about mail i sent. i totally admit that i am not very happy sharing the same computers with so many screened users. 'neo' being one of them. and here is an honest question about how the user space is being allocated on both wilber and ircd. karine has space on both computers, where apparently, i have space on wilber but only symbolically on ircd. i have pulled down my web stuff repeatedly because of the perception i have that we work together. i did this for akkana and i also did and do this for karine. i left gimp-web development because karine spent so much time working on it and for it. it is karine being edhel online and in bugzilla and in the changelog, am i correct on this? perhaps we should all go through everything that people have a problem and claim what they actually did and did not do and be willing to be responsible for it. everyone who is unwilling to do this should leave. if i should be sorry that i did not aggressively take what was mine -- i don't actually have a language to be that way. i did not have the language to enable me to keep what was mine before i became involved. i do not like authoring my email directly from wilber like this. i do like my decision to wait until i/me, my physical body which is totally, typically and predictably human to be in my home with my own internet connection which i pay for from whatever living i can make in this horrible and broken world. i find it interesting how trying to work with karine and akkana doesn't help much. i will also find it interesting when i can read the complaints you are getting to see if it is about something i have done or written. thanks for all of the concern, carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Hi Yosh, On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 01:50 -0700, Manish Singh wrote: > One really should evaluate emails on the actual *content*, and > not what the From address says. There are several active contributors > who do not use gimp.org addresses, assuming their comments should have > "less weight" is rather rude. You ignore the fact that we are not actually discussing whether a mail from gimp.org has more or less weight. What we are discussing is abuse of the gimp.org email domain. I agree that we should not try to monitor what people are doing with their gimp.org alias, but if abuse is reported multiple times, we have to do something about it. > Can we please stop cluttering the development mailing list with this > now? I am not really willing to ignore this issue any longer. I have had several reports from people who received mails from [EMAIL PROTECTED] that can be described as very irritating, to say the least. I think that we can not any longer ignore this problem. I have asked Carol multiple times to stop sending such mails, or at least not to use the gimp.org mail alias for it. She has ignored these requests and did it again. What do you suggest that we do? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Hi, Manish Singh a écrit : I think policing it at all is silly. That's unacceptable. And it's not your decision to make. One really should evaluate emails on the actual *content*, and not what the From address says. There are several active contributors who do not use gimp.org addresses, assuming their comments should have "less weight" is rather rude. I *am* judging the content. The content is crap, often abusive, and to my mind obviously unacceptable behaviour for a community member. But someone coming to the project for the first time doesn't have the same ability to make that judgement. Can we please stop cluttering the development mailing list with this now? There's an easy way to do that - ban Carol from the list and remove her gimp.org email address alias. Or get out of the way and let someone else do it. Cheers, Dave. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 08:36:09PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 13:07 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > > > So another idea is to persuade Shawn to move everything gimp.org to > > another server (perhaps somewhere in gnome.org/RedHat's colo to take > > advantage of their sysadmin team?), update the DNS records and move on > > with our lives with new sysadmins. > > Come on, nobody wants this. Before we can even ask Yosh for revoking > someone's email address, we need to agree on rules about the use of the > gimp.org aliases. That's what I would like us to talk about now. > Everything else seems very counterproductive to me. I think policing it at all is silly. Back in the day, we even gave out @gimp.org aliases as contest prizes, and monitoring that usage is impractical. I don't get where the expectation that postings from gimp.org addresses should be considered as anything but the individual expression of the author. Expecting a volunteer organization to have a rigid public face is ridiculous. One really should evaluate emails on the actual *content*, and not what the From address says. There are several active contributors who do not use gimp.org addresses, assuming their comments should have "less weight" is rather rude. Can we please stop cluttering the development mailing list with this now? -Yosh ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Hi, On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 13:07 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > So another idea is to persuade Shawn to move everything gimp.org to > another server (perhaps somewhere in gnome.org/RedHat's colo to take > advantage of their sysadmin team?), update the DNS records and move on > with our lives with new sysadmins. Come on, nobody wants this. Before we can even ask Yosh for revoking someone's email address, we need to agree on rules about the use of the gimp.org aliases. That's what I would like us to talk about now. Everything else seems very counterproductive to me. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Following up to myself, with a minor correction: Dave Neary a écrit : But that would need the domain owner (yosh) to make the change, and that's not going to happen soon. The domain is owned by Shawn Amundson (snorfle), but he hasn't been involved in the GIMP for a long time and yosh is the man who controls the domain. I'm open to suggestions if you have any other ideas. So another idea is to persuade Shawn to move everything gimp.org to another server (perhaps somewhere in gnome.org/RedHat's colo to take advantage of their sysadmin team?), update the DNS records and move on with our lives with new sysadmins. Cheers, Dave. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Hi Sven, Sven Neumann a écrit : That was probably the most stupid direction that you could have steered this discussion into. Thanks for ruining an effort to actually discuss a problem that we seem unable to deal with. Right - because otherwise we would surely have dealt with the problem. As long as yosh defends carol's use of the gimp.org email address, and refuses to answer any mails asking him to remove that address, then all we're doing by talking about it is wasting everyone's time. I sent a mail last week publicly asking for yosh to talk about his policies for gimp.org domains and email addresses, and he hasn't answered. We have both publicly asked for carol's email address to be removed. What do you think will change the situation? If yosh is the blockage, then we need to convince yosh to remove carol's gimp.org email address, or route around him. If routing around him means changing name & domain name, why shouldn't that be brought up as a possibility? The other way to route around him is to move the domain somewhere else, and have our mailing lists hosted somewhere where the archives work. But that would need the domain owner (yosh) to make the change, and that's not going to happen soon. I'm open to suggestions if you have any other ideas. Cheers, Dave. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Hi Dave, On Tue, 2006-09-26 at 11:15 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > We could rename the GIMP to something else like GNU masterstroke That was probably the most stupid direction that you could have steered this discussion into. Thanks for ruining an effort to actually discuss a problem that we seem unable to deal with. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > I think it is useful to have project adresses like [EMAIL PROTECTED] or > whatever to know you are dealing with core member of the project. Do I really know this from the mail address? Especially for a large company like redhat, mail adresses like [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't really tell me much about Fred - and any assumption made might hurt the communication. A comprehensive (and short) signature will tell me much more. IMO it's mainly the people who currently have and use an @gimp.org address who should decide about this - and if there is an agreement, please tell the others about it. Personally, I'd be perfectly fine with an answer along "You must be crazy to bring this up at all!" as well. HTH, Michael -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
Today GIMP for Windows is in the fifth place among the most downloaded applications from sourceforge.net. So Gimp is a real brand name ;). That way, gimp.org would become an irrelevant historical artifact. And one of the most common complaints from our American users (for whom the GIMP means more than just a chatracter in Pulp Fiction) goes away in the process. Cheers, Dave. -- With respect Alexander Rabtchevich ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Are @gimp.org aliases needed at all?
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:37:02 +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The point here is that Carol is continuously abusing her email address. I have asked her several times not to use it any longer but she ignored this request and continues to send mails as [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm amazed that about half the traffic of the last 10 days on this ML has been on this subject, so at the risk of perpetuating it I suggest ending it. I, like many , gave her post more time once I noted the address. I was about to bin it instantly, which of course was the right course of action. The address made me look closer at the issue, needlessly. I think it is useful to have project adresses like [EMAIL PROTECTED] or whatever to know you are dealing with core member of the project. If carol is abusing, as is indicated, just ask Yosh to delete the address and be done. Let's drop the issue. PLEASE DONT REPLY TO THIS POST. Thz. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
