Re: Space key & border area ideas
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: > On Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 01:24:18PM -0800, thus said the Loial Raven: > > i like both ideas, but the second one is what i realy realy like... > > > > Please, somebody impliment this... this is about what i wanted a couple > > months back, but with more... the extra edges i'm starting to realy realy > > go crazy without... with the gimp 1.2 i picked up a week or so back on > > debian, if you go over the edge while using a tablet, it draws a straight > > line to the upper left hand side, and it does this for every single point > > you cross, so you get this deep streak... > > This sounds like a bug that needs fixing. Is this Intuos? What XFree > version? Etc. Anyone else see something like this? XFree 4.0.1... with a wacom artpad II - KT-0405-R the edges losing my selections is because the tool is changed when i leave the drawing area... it changes to the core-pointer briefly... > > > Since i normaly work on images that are larger than my desktop, i often am > > zoomed in... so there is no boarder... as well, under any of the selection > > tools, your cursor goes out of the drawing area, you loses all of the > > selection, well, except when using the bezier select... > > > > The idea of allowing you to draw on the outside boarder is a neat one... i > > like it... maybe make it adjustable to it's size(even better if it was on > > the fly... might use the enlarge canvas or something to do this) and the > > time or method of erasing it... so if you wanted, you could call one > > hotkey and it erases it all, or wait 2 minutes... or wait till the layer, > > zoom, or pan is changed... > > Hmm. Why just not have another image as a "scratch paper"? It would be less > trouble anyway I think. And you could have it where you want. The border > thing sounds like a lot of trouble for little real gain. the scratchpaper is compleatly useless unless it has the backgrounds of the origional behind it, for me at least... i normaly draw on lotsa layers, using layers farther back as guides and scetches... even doing the accual image in multiple layers to allow easy editing of different sections... but it's only when painting and selecting it gets very anoying... As another example... i sometimes use the shapeburst blend to make heightfields, if the heighfield extends past the screen, it is cut off, and is defaulted to the lowest point(making it so the heighfield is effected by the sides of the screen) by selecting offscrean, you could negate this and make full heightmaps without that problem... Uh... am i making sence? i guess the bigest problem is when doing a freehand select on a very large image... one that you have to zoom out to get any edge on the screen... when your zoomed out, the freehand select becomes rough and pixelated, but if you try selecting something on the edge of the screen, as soon as the tool leaves the drawing area, it closes off the selection, making it rather useless, and you have to start over. the bezier select does remedy this by allowing accurate selections(non-pixelated) even when zoomed out, but it's not as good for very rough patterns or ultra-complex ones. As well, if your airbrushing, if you want to airbrush just off of the drawable area, your out of luck... i would use this for doing boarders or the like, where you want it always fading to the edge. hmm... a few thoughts on how this can be done... in preferences, you could set a default size of the tab around the drawing... this area is saved in an xcf format image, but no other ones. It could have a line around it like the edge of the normal image, and can have a transparent background in that area... what it could be is just a larger image, with a little bit of information in the header(or a hidden peice in the file) that declares how large an area this is. if wished, you could also make it auto-erase itself based on a few different changes(active layer, pan/zoom, time, etc.) based on how the user would like it... of course, all of this could be just defaulted to 0 in size, and never update, so it wouldn't change how the program normaly acted... > What comes to the space thing, I'd like to see the hold space&drag -> pan > image be implemented in gimp as well as all over Gnome (gnome print for > example) It is used pretty all over Mac and Windows, and I dont know why it > shouldnt be also for Gimp. I know we pan with mouse button 2, but space-drag > is kinda nice too. I need to use illustrator for vector graphics, so I get > all confused every time I switch apps :) > > Best wishes, > > Tuomas > > -- > > .---> [EMAIL PROTECTED].|\,/| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <-. > +> www.ximian.com - ()-@@ , tigert.gimp.org <+ > `-> art director , `--')/ a gimp artist <---' > > > i like the space-bar ideas... i probobly wouldn't use it, since i like the mouse button pan though. well, have fun Matthew Pet
Re: Space key & border area ideas
On Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 01:24:18PM -0800, thus said the Loial Raven: > i like both ideas, but the second one is what i realy realy like... > > Please, somebody impliment this... this is about what i wanted a couple > months back, but with more... the extra edges i'm starting to realy realy > go crazy without... with the gimp 1.2 i picked up a week or so back on > debian, if you go over the edge while using a tablet, it draws a straight > line to the upper left hand side, and it does this for every single point > you cross, so you get this deep streak... This sounds like a bug that needs fixing. Is this Intuos? What XFree version? Etc. Anyone else see something like this? > Since i normaly work on images that are larger than my desktop, i often am > zoomed in... so there is no boarder... as well, under any of the selection > tools, your cursor goes out of the drawing area, you loses all of the > selection, well, except when using the bezier select... > > The idea of allowing you to draw on the outside boarder is a neat one... i > like it... maybe make it adjustable to it's size(even better if it was on > the fly... might use the enlarge canvas or something to do this) and the > time or method of erasing it... so if you wanted, you could call one > hotkey and it erases it all, or wait 2 minutes... or wait till the layer, > zoom, or pan is changed... Hmm. Why just not have another image as a "scratch paper"? It would be less trouble anyway I think. And you could have it where you want. The border thing sounds like a lot of trouble for little real gain. What comes to the space thing, I'd like to see the hold space&drag -> pan image be implemented in gimp as well as all over Gnome (gnome print for example) It is used pretty all over Mac and Windows, and I dont know why it shouldnt be also for Gimp. I know we pan with mouse button 2, but space-drag is kinda nice too. I need to use illustrator for vector graphics, so I get all confused every time I switch apps :) Best wishes, Tuomas -- .---> [EMAIL PROTECTED].|\,/| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <-. +> www.ximian.com - ()-@@ , tigert.gimp.org <+ `-> art director , `--')/ a gimp artist <---'
Re: Space key & border area ideas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-02-04 at 1206.22 -0800): > This sounds a lot like a temporary layer. I'm thinking, why > restrict yourself the the edges of the canvas, why not see how a > color looks right where it will be. Of course, this is also a lot > like just trying the color and then hitting ^Z or something. Well, the thing about testing colors is a plus (I use Ctrl + Z a lot, as you say), the point is about being able to point borders nicely. How many times people found that they can not use a tool near the border cos their image is too big to fit on screen (zoom or big image)? Graphical explanation: - new image, small, ie 256 * 256. - choose paint brush tool, bird brush. - resize window (make bigger) so you see the extra area. - start painting outside, move inside working area, see how you can get some birds appear partially (tails, heads, less than half brush). - try with an image bigger than your screen, or the original one at big zoom. No way to get less than half birds near borders. Choosing a circular brushes also shows the effect, look how hard is to get paint near borders that does not show your brush is circular (bird is just a even better example). It also happens with other tools, like gradient or lazzo ones, cos you can not start outside working area if there is no extra area. And not, I am not asking about all inside big window like PS, just about some configurable extra space arround. And if possible (aka not complex), to show paint there too (the temp layer you say). GSR
Re: Space key & border area ideas
i like both ideas, but the second one is what i realy realy like... Please, somebody impliment this... this is about what i wanted a couple months back, but with more... the extra edges i'm starting to realy realy go crazy without... with the gimp 1.2 i picked up a week or so back on debian, if you go over the edge while using a tablet, it draws a straight line to the upper left hand side, and it does this for every single point you cross, so you get this deep streak... Since i normaly work on images that are larger than my desktop, i often am zoomed in... so there is no boarder... as well, under any of the selection tools, your cursor goes out of the drawing area, you loses all of the selection, well, except when using the bezier select... The idea of allowing you to draw on the outside boarder is a neat one... i like it... maybe make it adjustable to it's size(even better if it was on the fly... might use the enlarge canvas or something to do this) and the time or method of erasing it... so if you wanted, you could call one hotkey and it erases it all, or wait 2 minutes... or wait till the layer, zoom, or pan is changed... hmmph... i wish i was a good enough programmer to do this myself... but anyhow, if anyone else can do this, it would be greatly apreciated. Matthew Peters On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero wrote: > = Extra border area = > > The swap tools remembered me of when I paint in real world, I end > holding tools in the other hand, or "biting" them. And I also paint > the protectors (newspapers, adhesive tape) if I need to test > something, discard paint, start outside final area or in general do > something that will not appear in final job. So what about adding a > configurable area around layers? > > It would be like when you zoom out, you start viewing inactive area, > but with two details: > > - the area always exist, even if at 1600% you always get the extra > separating image size from rulers when you move near border. It will > mean a bigger window if at 100% and showing all. As user should be > able to configure it, he can use from 0 (same as current) to a nice > value (100 pix? 200?). Should be changable on the fly, if possible. > > - paint affects it too, but disappears after a given time (user > configurable inactivity time). It only shows on screen, does not > affect layer painting (or maybe yes, should be investigated if it > makes some ops easier, like Smudge). Filters ignore it, when you > change zoom, view or something it can disappear without problems. It > is temp, you can use it, but do not expect it to be true paint. > > When you are trying to see if layers are inside or outside it will > help. Also when you want to start a stroke near the border. And the > bigger the image, the better cos the other option is to start with a > bigger image than needed, and crop; supposing you want A pix of > border, it means you save A * A * 4 + A * xsize * 2 + A * ysize * > 2. Or to just test how much pressure you need without having a scratch > image. > > No idea about how to implement it, or if it easy or complex. But would > be nice, even in the most basic aspect (paint never appear, but at > least you have the space to move the cursor and start paiting outside > when zoomed in). :] > > = End = > > Thanks for reading both ideas. > > GSR >
Re: Space key & border area ideas
> - Alt + Space: swap tools. You have Current and Alternative (you > guessed, Alt key), hitting it makes swap the places. If you choose > another tool via menus / keys / buttons it becomes Current, and the > previous one becomes Alternative. I really like this idea, as it eliminates the need for the developers to anticipate what the users will want for the alternative key. No more thinking "If only CTRL brought up [random tool] instead of [other random tool] with the paintbrush!" User configurability is what makes the GIMP awsome, and the more the better (without overwhelming the user that is). > It would be like when you zoom out, you start viewing inactive area, > but with two details: > > - the area always exist, even if at 1600% you always get the extra > separating image size from rulers when you move near border. It will > mean a bigger window if at 100% and showing all. As user should be > able to configure it, he can use from 0 (same as current) to a nice > value (100 pix? 200?). Should be changable on the fly, if possible. > > - paint affects it too, but disappears after a given time (user > configurable inactivity time). It only shows on screen, does not > affect layer painting (or maybe yes, should be investigated if it > makes some ops easier, like Smudge). Filters ignore it, when you > change zoom, view or something it can disappear without problems. It > is temp, you can use it, but do not expect it to be true paint. [snip] This sounds a lot like a temporary layer. I'm thinking, why restrict yourself the the edges of the canvas, why not see how a color looks right where it will be. Of course, this is also a lot like just trying the color and then hitting ^Z or something. Interesting ideas though. -- Arcterex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -==- http://arcterex.net "I used to herd dairy cows. Now I herd lusers. Apart from the isolation, I think I preferred the cows. They were better conversation, easier to milk, and if they annoyed me enough, I could shoot them and eat them." -Rodger Donaldson
