Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
> My primary concern is that the proposed @{publish} should be a first-class
> citizen; if it has everything that @{u} has, then we're both good: you'd
> primarily use @{u}, while I'd primarily use @{publish}.
Something like this?
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/246038
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
> We already have a branch.*.pushremote, and I don't see the value of
> branch.*.pushbranch (what you're referring to as pushupstream, I assume)
> except for Gerrit users. Frankly, I don't use full triangular workflows
> myself mainly because my prompt is compromised: when I have a branch.*.remote
> different from branch.*.pushremote, I'd like to see where my branch is with
> respect to @{u} and @{publish} (not yet invented);
@{publish} not yet invented? I sent this back in October:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/235981
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jeff King writes: > And even in a centralized workflow, I see "upstream" creating problems. > E.g., you fork a feature branch in the centralized repo; it should not > get pushed straight back to "master"! And that is why we invented > "simple", to prevent such things. Oh, don't get me wrong. I personally wouldn't imagine forking 'topic' from the shared 'master', call the result perfect and push it directly back to the shared 'master'. But the 'upstream' setting was added exactly to support that. In such a case, I would have 'master' that is forked from the shared 'master', 'topic' that is forked from my 'master', and pushing back would be a two-step process, first updating my 'master' in sync with the shared 'master', merging 'topic' into it to make sure the result is sane and then push it back to the shared 'master'. And in that set-up, 'upstream' would work fine as the upstream of my 'master' is the shared 'master', even though 'current' or even 'matching' would work just as well. So in that sense, I do not see 'upstream' as so broken as you seem to be saying. One gap in that line of thought might be that I am sane enough not to attempt "git push" while I am on my 'topic', though. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 02:06:12PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> Jeff King writes:
>
> > I think that is sensible, and only heightens my sense of the "upstream"
> > push.default as useless. :)
>
> Yes, it only is good for centralized world (it was designed back in
> the centralized days after all, wasn't it?).
I do not think there is any "centralized days". From day one, Linus
advocated a triangular workflow, and that is how git and kernel develop
has always been done. And that is why the default of "matching" was
there.
There were people who came later, and who still exist today, who use git
in an SVN-like centralized way. So if there were centralized days, we
are in them now. :)
I just do not see any real advantage even in a centralized world for
"upstream" versus "current". Before remote.pushdefault, I can
potentially see some use (if you want to abuse @{upstream}), but now I
do not see any point.
And even in a centralized workflow, I see "upstream" creating problems.
E.g., you fork a feature branch in the centralized repo; it should not
get pushed straight back to "master"! And that is why we invented
"simple", to prevent such things.
I dunno. I have not gone back and read all of the arguments around
push.default from last year. It is entirely possible everything I just
said was refuted back then, and I am needlessly rehashing old arguments.
I remember that Matthieu was one of the main advocates of "upstream". I
am cc-ing him here to bring his attention (not just to this message, but
to the whole thread).
-Peff
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jeff King writes: > I think that is sensible, and only heightens my sense of the "upstream" > push.default as useless. :) Yes, it only is good for centralized world (it was designed back in the centralized days after all, wasn't it?). -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Wed, Jan 08, 2014 at 02:55:04AM +0530, Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
> Jeff King wrote:
> > My daily procedure is something like:
> >
> > all_topics |
> > while read topic; do "echo $topic $(git rev-parse $topic@{u})"; done |
> > topo_sort |
> > while read topic upstream; do
> > git rebase $upstream $topic || exit 1
> > done
>
> Ah, I was perhaps over-specializing for my own usecase, where
> everything is based off 'master'. I never considered 'master' a "true
> upstream" because I throw away topic branches after the maintainer
> merges them. If you have long-running branches that you work on a
> daily basis, the issue is somewhat different.
What I do is maybe somewhat gross, but I continually rebase my patches
forward as master develops. So they diverge from where Junio has forked
them upstream (which does not necessarily have any relationship with
where I forked from, anyway). The nice thing about this is that
eventually the topic becomes empty, as rebase drops patches that were
merged upstream (or resolve conflicts to end up at an empty patch).
It's a nice way of tracking the progress of the patch upstream, and it
catches any differences between what's upstream and what's in the topic
(in both directions: you see where the maintainer may have marked up
your patch, and you may see a place where you added something to be
squashed but the maintainer missed it). The downside is that sometimes
the conflicts are annoying and complicated (e.g., several patches that
touch the same spot are a pain to rebase on top of themselves; the early
ones are confused that the later changes are already in place).
> My primary concern is that the proposed @{publish} should be a
> first-class citizen; if it has everything that @{u} has, then we're
> both good: you'd primarily use @{u}, while I'd primarily use
> @{publish}.
Definitely. I think that's the world we want to work towards.
-Peff
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jeff King wrote:
> My daily procedure is something like:
>
> all_topics |
> while read topic; do "echo $topic $(git rev-parse $topic@{u})"; done |
> topo_sort |
> while read topic upstream; do
> git rebase $upstream $topic || exit 1
> done
Ah, I was perhaps over-specializing for my own usecase, where
everything is based off 'master'. I never considered 'master' a "true
upstream" because I throw away topic branches after the maintainer
merges them. If you have long-running branches that you work on a
daily basis, the issue is somewhat different.
>> While doing respins, the prompt doesn't aid you in any way. Besides,
>> on several occasions, I found myself working on the same forked-branch
>> from two different machines; then the publish-point isn't necessarily
>> always a publish-point: it's just another "upstream" for the branch.
>
> Right, things get trickier then. But I don't think there is an automatic
> way around that. Sometimes the published one is more up to date, and
> sometimes the upstream thing is more up to date. You have to manually
> tell git which you are currently basing your work on. I find in such a
> situation that it tends to resolve itself quickly, though, as the first
> step is to pull in the changes you pushed up from the other machine
> anyway (either via "git reset" or "git rebase").
My primary concern is that the proposed @{publish} should be a
first-class citizen; if it has everything that @{u} has, then we're
both good: you'd primarily use @{u}, while I'd primarily use
@{publish}.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 01:07:08PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Jeff King writes: > > > Yes, "pushbranch" is probably a better name for what I am referring to. > > I agree that pushremote is probably enough for sane cases. I seem to > > recall that people advocating the "upstream" push-default thought that > > branch name mapping was a useful feature, but I might be > > mis-remembering. I will let those people speak up for the feature if > > they see fit; it seems somewhat crazy to me. > > I think "branch mapping" you recall are for those who want to push > their 'topic' to 'review/topic' or something like that. With Git > post 7cdebd8a (Merge branch 'jc/push-refmap', 2013-12-27), I think > "remote.*.push" can be used to implement that, by the way. Hmm. The top patch of that series still relies on "upstream" being a push destination, though. So if I have a triangular workflow where I fork "topic" from "origin/master", my "git push origin topic" will go to "refs/heads/master" on "origin" under the "upstream" rule. So that seems broken as ever. :) But I guess what you are referring to is that in a triangular world, the second patch lets me do: git config push.default current git config remote.origin.push 'refs/heads/*:refs/review/*' And then "git push", "git push origin", or "git push origin topic" all put it in "review/topic", which is what I want. I think that is sensible, and only heightens my sense of the "upstream" push.default as useless. :) -Peff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jeff King writes:
> Yes, "pushbranch" is probably a better name for what I am referring to.
> I agree that pushremote is probably enough for sane cases. I seem to
> recall that people advocating the "upstream" push-default thought that
> branch name mapping was a useful feature, but I might be
> mis-remembering. I will let those people speak up for the feature if
> they see fit; it seems somewhat crazy to me.
I think "branch mapping" you recall are for those who want to push
their 'topic' to 'review/topic' or something like that. With Git
post 7cdebd8a (Merge branch 'jc/push-refmap', 2013-12-27), I think
"remote.*.push" can be used to implement that, by the way.
>> Frankly, I don't use full triangular workflows myself mainly because
>> my prompt is compromised: when I have a branch.*.remote different from
>> branch.*.pushremote, I'd like to see where my branch is with respect
>> to @{u} and @{publish} (not yet invented);
>
> Yes, as two separate relationships, you would theoretically want to be
> able to see them separately (or simultaneously side by side). Whether
> exposing that in the prompt is too clunky, I don't know (I don't even
> show ahead/behind in my prompt, but rather prefer to query it when I
> care; I have a separate script that queries the ahead/behind against my
> publishing point, but it would be nice if git handled this itself).
Same here. I do not bother a/b in prompt and comparison with
publishing point is done with a custom script. It would be nice to
have it natively, and @{publish} would be a good first step to do
so.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 04:17:00AM +0530, Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
> Junio C Hamano wrote:.
> > As I said in the different subthread, I am not convinced that you
> > would need the complexity of branch.*.forkedFrom. If you set your
> > "upstream" to the true upstream (not your publishing point), and
> > have "remote.pushdefault"set to 'publish', you can expect
> >
> > git push
> >
> > to do the right thing, and then always say
> >
> > git show-branch publish/topic topic
>
> I think it's highly sub-optimal to have a local-branch @{u} for
> several reasons; the prompt is almost useless in this case, and it
> will always show your forked-branch ahead of 'master' (assuming that
> 'master' doesn't update itself in the duration of your development).
I actually use local-branch @{u} all the time to represent inter-topic
dependencies. For example, imagine I have topic "bar" which builds on
topic "foo", which is based on master. I would have:
[branch "foo"]
remote = origin
merge = refs/heads/master
[branch "bar"]
remote = .
merge = refs/heads/foo
When I rebase "foo", I want to rebase it against upstream's master. When
I rebase "bar", I want to rebase it against foo. And naturally, upstream
does not necessarily have a "foo", because it is my topic, not theirs (I
_may_ have published my "foo" somewhere, but that is orthogonal, and
anyway my local "foo" is the most up-to-date source, not the pushed
version).
As an aside, if you want to rebase both branches, you have to topo-sort
them to make sure you do "foo" first, then rebase "bar" on the result.
My daily procedure is something like:
all_topics |
while read topic; do "echo $topic $(git rev-parse $topic@{u})"; done |
topo_sort |
while read topic upstream; do
git rebase $upstream $topic || exit 1
done
> While doing respins, the prompt doesn't aid you in any way. Besides,
> on several occasions, I found myself working on the same forked-branch
> from two different machines; then the publish-point isn't necessarily
> always a publish-point: it's just another "upstream" for the branch.
Right, things get trickier then. But I don't think there is an automatic
way around that. Sometimes the published one is more up to date, and
sometimes the upstream thing is more up to date. You have to manually
tell git which you are currently basing your work on. I find in such a
situation that it tends to resolve itself quickly, though, as the first
step is to pull in the changes you pushed up from the other machine
anyway (either via "git reset" or "git rebase").
-Peff
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 03:40:56AM +0530, Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
> Jeff King wrote:
> > Yeah, I had similar thoughts. I personally use "branch.*.merge" as
> > "forkedFrom", and it seems like we are going that way anyway with things
> > like "git rebase" and "git merge" defaulting to upstream.
>
> My issue with that is that I no idea where my branch is with respect
> to my forked upstream; I find that extremely useful when doing
> re-spins.
Right. I think there are two separate relationships, and they are both
shoe-horned into "upstream". The solution is to let them be configured
separately (and fallback on each other as appropriate to make the burden
less on the user).
> push.default = upstream is a bit of a disaster, in my opinion. I've
> advocated push.default = current on multiple occasions, and wrote the
> initial remote.pushDefault series with that configuration in mind.
Yeah, I agree with all of that.
> > I wonder if it is too late to try to clarify this dual usage. It kind of
> > seems like the push config is "this is the place I publish to". Which,
> > in many workflows, just so happens to be the exact same as the place you
> > forked from. Could we introduce a new branch.*.pushupstream variable
> > that falls back to branch.*.merge? Or is that just throwing more fuel on
> > the fire (more sand in the pit in my analogy, I guess).
>
> We already have a branch.*.pushremote, and I don't see the value of
> branch.*.pushbranch (what you're referring to as pushupstream, I
> assume) except for Gerrit users.
Yes, "pushbranch" is probably a better name for what I am referring to.
I agree that pushremote is probably enough for sane cases. I seem to
recall that people advocating the "upstream" push-default thought that
branch name mapping was a useful feature, but I might be
mis-remembering. I will let those people speak up for the feature if
they see fit; it seems somewhat crazy to me.
> Frankly, I don't use full triangular workflows myself mainly because
> my prompt is compromised: when I have a branch.*.remote different from
> branch.*.pushremote, I'd like to see where my branch is with respect
> to @{u} and @{publish} (not yet invented);
Yes, as two separate relationships, you would theoretically want to be
able to see them separately (or simultaneously side by side). Whether
exposing that in the prompt is too clunky, I don't know (I don't even
show ahead/behind in my prompt, but rather prefer to query it when I
care; I have a separate script that queries the ahead/behind against my
publishing point, but it would be nice if git handled this itself).
> > I admit I haven't thought it through yet, though. And even if it does
> > work, it may throw a slight monkey wrench in the proposed push.default
> > transition.
>
> We're transitioning to push.default = simple which is even simpler
> than current.
Simpler in the sense that it is less likely to do something unexpected.
But the rules are actually more complicated. Two examples:
1. Imagine I make a feature branch "foo" forked off of origin/master, then
"git push" with no arguments. The "current" scheme would go to
"foo" on origin, but "upstream" would go to "master". Since they
don't agree, "simple" will punt and tell me to be more specific.
2. Imagine I have set my default push remote to "publish", am on
master (forked from "origin/master") and I run "git push" without
arguments. "current" would push to "master" on "publish". But
"upstream" will complain, because we are not pushing to our
upstream remote. I believe "simple" will therefore reject this.
In both cases, I think "current" does the sane thing, and "simple" makes
things more complicated. The one saving grace it has is that it punts on
these cases rather than potentially doing something destructive that the
user did not intend.
-Peff
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
John Szakmeister wrote:
> I guess it's not a good idea to
> set 'push.default' to 'upstream' in this triangle workflow then,
> otherwise the branch name being pushed to will be 'branch.*.merge'.
> Is that correct? I just want to make sure I understand what's
> happening here.
push.default = upstream does not support triangular workflows. See
builtin/push.c:setup_push_upstream().
> Given this new found knowledge, I'm not sure it makes sense for `git
> status` to show me the status against the upstream vs. the publish
> location. The latter makes a little more sense to me, though I see
> the usefulness of either one.
Currently, status information is only against @{u}; we haven't
invented a @{publish} yet.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
> John Szakmeister wrote:
>> Then where does it get pushed? Do you always specify where to save your
>> work?
>>
>> FWIW, I think the idea of treating @{u} as the eventual recipient of
>> your changes is good, but then it seems like Git is lacking the
>> "publish my changes to this other branch" concept.
>>
>> Am I missing something? If there is something other than @{u} to
>> represent this latter concept, I think `git push` should default to
>> that instead. But, at least with my current knowledge, that doesn't
>> exist--without explicitly saying so--or treating @{u} as that branch.
>> If there's a better way to do this, I'd love to hear it!
>
> That's why we invented remote.pushdefault and branch.*.pushremote. When you
> say
>
> $ git push
>
> it automatically goes to the right remote instead of going to the
> place you fetched from. You can read up on how push.default interacts
> with this setting too, although I always recommend push.default =
> current.
This was the piece that I was missing. I remember when
remote.pushdefault was added, but questioned its usefulness because it
just changes the remote that a branch is pushed to, not necessarily
the name. I somehow missed the 'current' option for 'push.default'...
which is surprising since I seem to spend an incredible amount of time
looking at the git-config man page. I guess it's not a good idea to
set 'push.default' to 'upstream' in this triangle workflow then,
otherwise the branch name being pushed to will be 'branch.*.merge'.
Is that correct? I just want to make sure I understand what's
happening here.
Given this new found knowledge, I'm not sure it makes sense for `git
status` to show me the status against the upstream vs. the publish
location. The latter makes a little more sense to me, though I see
the usefulness of either one.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I'm going to have to
spend some more time with this configuration and see what the sticking
points are.
-John
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
John Szakmeister wrote:
> Then where does it get pushed? Do you always specify where to save your work?
>
> FWIW, I think the idea of treating @{u} as the eventual recipient of
> your changes is good, but then it seems like Git is lacking the
> "publish my changes to this other branch" concept.
>
> Am I missing something? If there is something other than @{u} to
> represent this latter concept, I think `git push` should default to
> that instead. But, at least with my current knowledge, that doesn't
> exist--without explicitly saying so--or treating @{u} as that branch.
> If there's a better way to do this, I'd love to hear it!
That's why we invented remote.pushdefault and branch.*.pushremote. When you say
$ git push
it automatically goes to the right remote instead of going to the
place you fetched from. You can read up on how push.default interacts
with this setting too, although I always recommend push.default =
current.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Junio C Hamano wrote:.
> As I said in the different subthread, I am not convinced that you
> would need the complexity of branch.*.forkedFrom. If you set your
> "upstream" to the true upstream (not your publishing point), and
> have "remote.pushdefault"set to 'publish', you can expect
>
> git push
>
> to do the right thing, and then always say
>
> git show-branch publish/topic topic
I think it's highly sub-optimal to have a local-branch @{u} for
several reasons; the prompt is almost useless in this case, and it
will always show your forked-branch ahead of 'master' (assuming that
'master' doesn't update itself in the duration of your development).
While doing respins, the prompt doesn't aid you in any way. Besides,
on several occasions, I found myself working on the same forked-branch
from two different machines; then the publish-point isn't necessarily
always a publish-point: it's just another "upstream" for the branch.
The point of a special branch.*.forkedFrom is that you can always show
the "master..@" information in the prompt ignoring divergences; after
all, a divergence simply means that you need to rebase onto the latest
'master' ('master' is never going to get a non-ff update anyway).
So, instead of crippling the functionality around the publish-point,
let's build minimal required functionality around branch.*.forkedFrom.
I'd love a prompt like:
branch-forkedfrom<>5*:~/src/git$
Clearly, branch-forkedfrom has diverged from my publish-point (I'm
probably doing a respin), and has 5 commits (it's 5 commits ahead of
'master' ignoring divergences).
> to see where your last published branch is relative to what you
> have, no? Mapping "topic@{publish}" to "refs/remotes/publish/topic"
> (or when you have 'topic' checked out, mapping "@{publish}" to it)
> is a trivial but is a separate usefulness, I would guess.
I think a @{publish} is needed for when branch.*.remote is different
from remote.pushDefault. Like I said earlier, it's probably too much
information to give to the user: divergences with respect to two
remotes. So, we'll hold it off until someone finds a usecase for it.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Ramkumar Ramachandra writes:
> Junio C Hamano wrote:
>> I meant "a single branch" as opposed to "depending on what branch
>> you are sending out, you may have to use a different upstream
>> starting point", and a single "format.defaultTo" that does not read
>> what your HEAD currently points at may not be enough.
>>
>> Unless you set @{u} to this new configuration, in which case the
>> choice becomes dynamic depending on the current branch, but
>>
>> - if that is the only sane choice based on the current branch, why
>>not use that as the default without having to set the
>>configuration?
>>
>> - Or if that is still insufficient, don't we need branch.*.forkedFrom
>>that is different from branch.*.merge, so that different branches
>>you want to show "format-patch" output can have different
>>reference points?
>
> Ah, I was going for an equivalent of merge.defaultToUpstream, but I
> guess branch.*.forkedFrom is a good way to go.
As I said in the different subthread, I am not convinced that you
would need the complexity of branch.*.forkedFrom. If you set your
"upstream" to the true upstream (not your publishing point), and
have "remote.pushdefault" set to 'publish', you can expect
git push
to do the right thing, and then always say
git show-branch publish/topic topic
to see where your last published branch is relative to what you
have, no? Mapping "topic@{publish}" to "refs/remotes/publish/topic"
(or when you have 'topic' checked out, mapping "@{publish}" to it)
is a trivial but is a separate usefulness, I would guess.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jeff King wrote:
> Yeah, I had similar thoughts. I personally use "branch.*.merge" as
> "forkedFrom", and it seems like we are going that way anyway with things
> like "git rebase" and "git merge" defaulting to upstream.
My issue with that is that I no idea where my branch is with respect
to my forked upstream; I find that extremely useful when doing
re-spins.
> But then there
> is "git push -u" and "push.default = upstream", which treats the
> upstream config as something else entirely.
push.default = upstream is a bit of a disaster, in my opinion. I've
advocated push.default = current on multiple occasions, and wrote the
initial remote.pushDefault series with that configuration in mind.
> I wonder if it is too late to try to clarify this dual usage. It kind of
> seems like the push config is "this is the place I publish to". Which,
> in many workflows, just so happens to be the exact same as the place you
> forked from. Could we introduce a new branch.*.pushupstream variable
> that falls back to branch.*.merge? Or is that just throwing more fuel on
> the fire (more sand in the pit in my analogy, I guess).
We already have a branch.*.pushremote, and I don't see the value of
branch.*.pushbranch (what you're referring to as pushupstream, I
assume) except for Gerrit users. Frankly, I don't use full triangular
workflows myself mainly because my prompt is compromised: when I have
a branch.*.remote different from branch.*.pushremote, I'd like to see
where my branch is with respect to @{u} and @{publish} (not yet
invented); that's probably too much information to digest anyway, so I
use central workflow (pointing to my fork) for each of my branches,
except master (which points to Junio's repo).
> I admit I haven't thought it through yet, though. And even if it does
> work, it may throw a slight monkey wrench in the proposed push.default
> transition.
We're transitioning to push.default = simple which is even simpler than current.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Junio C Hamano wrote:
> I meant "a single branch" as opposed to "depending on what branch
> you are sending out, you may have to use a different upstream
> starting point", and a single "format.defaultTo" that does not read
> what your HEAD currently points at may not be enough.
>
> Unless you set @{u} to this new configuration, in which case the
> choice becomes dynamic depending on the current branch, but
>
> - if that is the only sane choice based on the current branch, why
>not use that as the default without having to set the
>configuration?
>
> - Or if that is still insufficient, don't we need branch.*.forkedFrom
>that is different from branch.*.merge, so that different branches
>you want to show "format-patch" output can have different
>reference points?
Ah, I was going for an equivalent of merge.defaultToUpstream, but I
guess branch.*.forkedFrom is a good way to go.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
John Szakmeister writes:
> Am I missing something? If there is something other than @{u} to
> represent this latter concept, I think `git push` should default to
> that instead. But, at least with my current knowledge, that doesn't
> exist--without explicitly saying so--or treating @{u} as that branch.
> If there's a better way to do this, I'd love to hear it!
I see Ram who worked on landing the remote.pushdefault feature is
CC'ed; this work was started in early April 2013 and your config and
workflow may not have been adjusted to it.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jeff King writes:
> On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 12:38:30PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:
>
>> > I wonder if it is too late to try to clarify this dual usage. It kind of
>> > seems like the push config is "this is the place I publish to". Which,
>> > in many workflows, just so happens to be the exact same as the place you
>> > forked from. Could we introduce a new branch.*.pushupstream variable
>> > that falls back to branch.*.merge? Or is that just throwing more fuel on
>> > the fire (more sand in the pit in my analogy, I guess).
>> >
>> > I admit I haven't thought it through yet, though. And even if it does
>> > work, it may throw a slight monkey wrench in the proposed push.default
>> > transition.
>>
>> Yeah, when I say "upstream", I never mean it as "where I publish".
>> Your upstream is where you get others' work from.
>
> That's my thinking, as well, but it means the "upstream" push.default is
> nonsensical. I've thought that all along, but it seems like other people
> find it useful. I guess because they are in a non-triangular,
> non-feature-branch setup (I suppose you could think of a central-repo
> feature-branch workflow as a special form of triangular setup, where
> the remote is bi-directional, but the branch names are triangular).
>
> If we want to declare "push -u" and "push.default=upstream" as
> tools for certain simple bi-directional workflows, that makes
> sense. But I suspect it may cause extra confusion when people
> make the jump to using a triangular workflow.
I do not think there is no "want to declare" involved. If I
correctly recall how "push -u" came about, it was merely a way to
appease those who complained that their new branch created by
running "checkout -b branch origin/branch" has already set up the
branch.*.remote and branch.*.merge configurations nicely for them
and allow them to immediately go ahead and start using the
centralized "I merge from their 'branch' and push to that", but when
they create a new branch on their own and want to make the branch of
the same name at the origin to be the "upstream", they have to futz
with the configuration. The declaration was made long time ago when
we started using @{upstream}, and there is no new extra confusion.
>> For a "push to somewhere for safekeeping or other people to look at"
>> triangular workflow, it does not make any sense to treat that "I
>> publish there" place as an upstream (hence having branch.*.remote
>> pointing at that publishing point).
>
> You _might_ treat it the same way we treat the upstream, in some special
> cases. For example, when you say "git status", it is useful to see how
> your topic and the upstream have progressed (i.e., do I need to pull
> from upstream?). But you may _also_ want to know how your local branch
> differs from its pushed counterpart (i.e., do I have unsaved commits
> here that I want to push up?).
Correct; I am not saying "where do I publish" is never relevant. It
is just it is not something useful for "format-patch" to use as the
default fork-point.
> So having two config options might help with that. Of course, your "push
> upstream" (or whatever you want to call it) does not logically have one
> value. You may push to several places, and would want to compare to
> each.
Yes. But most likely, if you always push a single branch to
multiple places, it won't be like you push it to only one of the
places today and another one tomorrow, leaving everybody out of
sync. Unless there is a site that is temporarily down, in which
case that one may stay behind, the normal state would be that all of
them point at the same commit (that is how I publish to multiple
places anyway).
>> Once you stop doing that, and
>> instead using branch.*.remote = origin, and branch.*.merge = master,
>> where 'origin' is not your publishing point, @{u} will again start
>> making sense, I think.
>>
>> And I thought that is what setting "remote.pushdefault" to the
>> publishing point repository was about.
>
> If that were sufficient, then we would just need "push.default =
> current", and not "upstream" (nor "simple"). I lobbied for that during
> the discussion, but people seemed to think that "upstream" was
> better/more useful. Maybe it was just because remote.pushdefault did not
> exist then.
Yeah, I think in the 2.0 world with pushdefault (i.e. triangular),
the default 'simple' turns into 'current'.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
> John Szakmeister wrote:
>
>>I think in a
>> typical, feature branch-based workflow @{u} would be nearly useless.
>
> I thought the idea of @{u} was that it represents which ref one
> typically wants to compare the current branch to. It is used by
> 'git branch -v' to show how far ahead or behind a branch is and
> used by 'git pull --rebase' to forward-port a branch, for example.
>
> So a topic branch with @{u} pointing to 'master' or 'origin/master'
> seems pretty normal and hopefully the shortcuts it allows can make
> life more convenient.
Is there an outline of this git workflow in the documentation
somewhere? Do you save your work in a forked repo anywhere? If so,
how do you typically save your work. I typically have my @{u}
pointing to where I save my work. Perhaps I'm missing something
important here, but I don't feel like the current command set and
typical workflow (at least those in tutorials) leads you in that
direction.
Here is one example:
> It is *not* primarily about where the branch gets pushed. After all,
> in both the 'matching' and the 'simple' mode, "git push" does not push
> the current branch to its upstream @{u} unless @{u} happens to have
> the same name.
Then where does it get pushed? Do you always specify where to save your work?
FWIW, I think the idea of treating @{u} as the eventual recipient of
your changes is good, but then it seems like Git is lacking the
"publish my changes to this other branch" concept.
Am I missing something? If there is something other than @{u} to
represent this latter concept, I think `git push` should default to
that instead. But, at least with my current knowledge, that doesn't
exist--without explicitly saying so--or treating @{u} as that branch.
If there's a better way to do this, I'd love to hear it!
Thanks!
-John
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 12:38:30PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> > I wonder if it is too late to try to clarify this dual usage. It kind of
> > seems like the push config is "this is the place I publish to". Which,
> > in many workflows, just so happens to be the exact same as the place you
> > forked from. Could we introduce a new branch.*.pushupstream variable
> > that falls back to branch.*.merge? Or is that just throwing more fuel on
> > the fire (more sand in the pit in my analogy, I guess).
> >
> > I admit I haven't thought it through yet, though. And even if it does
> > work, it may throw a slight monkey wrench in the proposed push.default
> > transition.
>
> Yeah, when I say "upstream", I never mean it as "where I publish".
> Your upstream is where you get others' work from.
That's my thinking, as well, but it means the "upstream" push.default is
nonsensical. I've thought that all along, but it seems like other people
find it useful. I guess because they are in a non-triangular,
non-feature-branch setup (I suppose you could think of a central-repo
feature-branch workflow as a special form of triangular setup, where
the remote is bi-directional, but the branch names are triangular).
If we want to declare "push -u" and "push.default=upstream" as tools for
certain simple bi-directional workflows, that makes sense. But I suspect
it may cause extra confusion when people make the jump to using a
triangular workflow.
> For a "push to somewhere for safekeeping or other people to look at"
> triangular workflow, it does not make any sense to treat that "I
> publish there" place as an upstream (hence having branch.*.remote
> pointing at that publishing point).
You _might_ treat it the same way we treat the upstream, in some special
cases. For example, when you say "git status", it is useful to see how
your topic and the upstream have progressed (i.e., do I need to pull
from upstream?). But you may _also_ want to know how your local branch
differs from its pushed counterpart (i.e., do I have unsaved commits
here that I want to push up?).
So having two config options might help with that. Of course, your "push
upstream" (or whatever you want to call it) does not logically have one
value. You may push to several places, and would want to compare to
each.
> Once you stop doing that, and
> instead using branch.*.remote = origin, and branch.*.merge = master,
> where 'origin' is not your publishing point, @{u} will again start
> making sense, I think.
>
> And I thought that is what setting "remote.pushdefault" to the
> publishing point repository was about.
If that were sufficient, then we would just need "push.default =
current", and not "upstream" (nor "simple"). I lobbied for that during
the discussion, but people seemed to think that "upstream" was
better/more useful. Maybe it was just because remote.pushdefault did not
exist then.
-Peff
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 03:29:57PM -0500, John Szakmeister wrote:
> > Yeah, I had similar thoughts. I personally use "branch.*.merge" as
> > "forkedFrom", and it seems like we are going that way anyway with things
> > like "git rebase" and "git merge" defaulting to upstream. But then there
> > is "git push -u" and "push.default = upstream", which treats the
> > upstream config as something else entirely.
>
> Just for more reference, I rarely use "branch.*.merge" as
> "forkedFrom". I typically want to use master as my target, but like
> Ram, I publish my changes elsewhere for safe keeping. I think in a
> typical, feature branch-based workflow @{u} would be nearly useless.
In my feature-branch development for git.git, my upstream is almost
always origin/master[1]. However, sometimes feature branches have
dependencies[2] on each other. Representing that via the "upstream"
field makes sense, since that is what you forked from, and what you
would want "git rebase" to start from.
-Peff
[1] I do not even have a local "master" branch for git.git work, as it
would just be a pain to keep up to date. I am either working
directly on a topic branch, or I am integrating in my own personal
branch.
[2] You should try to minimize dependencies between feature branches, of
course, but sometimes they simply form a logical progression of
features.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
John Szakmeister wrote:
>I think in a
> typical, feature branch-based workflow @{u} would be nearly useless.
I thought the idea of @{u} was that it represents which ref one
typically wants to compare the current branch to. It is used by
'git branch -v' to show how far ahead or behind a branch is and
used by 'git pull --rebase' to forward-port a branch, for example.
So a topic branch with @{u} pointing to 'master' or 'origin/master'
seems pretty normal and hopefully the shortcuts it allows can make
life more convenient.
It is *not* primarily about where the branch gets pushed. After all,
in both the 'matching' and the 'simple' mode, "git push" does not push
the current branch to its upstream @{u} unless @{u} happens to have
the same name.
Hoping that clarifies,
Jonathan
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jeff King writes:
> On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 12:06:51PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:
>
>> Unless you set @{u} to this new configuration, in which case the
>> choice becomes dynamic depending on the current branch, but
>>
>> - if that is the only sane choice based on the current branch, why
>>not use that as the default without having to set the
>>configuration?
>>
>> - Or if that is still insufficient, don't we need branch.*.forkedFrom
>>that is different from branch.*.merge, so that different branches
>>you want to show "format-patch" output can have different
>>reference points?
>
> Yeah, I had similar thoughts. I personally use "branch.*.merge" as
> "forkedFrom", and it seems like we are going that way anyway with things
> like "git rebase" and "git merge" defaulting to upstream. But then there
> is "git push -u" and "push.default = upstream", which treats the
> upstream config as something else entirely.
>
> So it seems like there is already some confusion, and either way we go,
> thisis making it worse to some degree (I do not blame Ram, but rather he
> has stumbled into a hidden sand pit that we have been building for the
> past few years... :).
>
> I wonder if it is too late to try to clarify this dual usage. It kind of
> seems like the push config is "this is the place I publish to". Which,
> in many workflows, just so happens to be the exact same as the place you
> forked from. Could we introduce a new branch.*.pushupstream variable
> that falls back to branch.*.merge? Or is that just throwing more fuel on
> the fire (more sand in the pit in my analogy, I guess).
>
> I admit I haven't thought it through yet, though. And even if it does
> work, it may throw a slight monkey wrench in the proposed push.default
> transition.
Yeah, when I say "upstream", I never mean it as "where I publish".
Your upstream is where you get others' work from.
For a "push to somewhere for safekeeping or other people to look at"
triangular workflow, it does not make any sense to treat that "I
publish there" place as an upstream (hence having branch.*.remote
pointing at that publishing point). Once you stop doing that, and
instead using branch.*.remote = origin, and branch.*.merge = master,
where 'origin' is not your publishing point, @{u} will again start
making sense, I think.
And I thought that is what setting "remote.pushdefault" to the
publishing point repository was about.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Jeff King wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 12:06:51PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:
>
>> Unless you set @{u} to this new configuration, in which case the
>> choice becomes dynamic depending on the current branch, but
>>
>> - if that is the only sane choice based on the current branch, why
>>not use that as the default without having to set the
>>configuration?
>>
>> - Or if that is still insufficient, don't we need branch.*.forkedFrom
>>that is different from branch.*.merge, so that different branches
>>you want to show "format-patch" output can have different
>>reference points?
>
> Yeah, I had similar thoughts. I personally use "branch.*.merge" as
> "forkedFrom", and it seems like we are going that way anyway with things
> like "git rebase" and "git merge" defaulting to upstream. But then there
> is "git push -u" and "push.default = upstream", which treats the
> upstream config as something else entirely.
Just for more reference, I rarely use "branch.*.merge" as
"forkedFrom". I typically want to use master as my target, but like
Ram, I publish my changes elsewhere for safe keeping. I think in a
typical, feature branch-based workflow @{u} would be nearly useless.
-John
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 12:06:51PM -0800, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> Unless you set @{u} to this new configuration, in which case the
> choice becomes dynamic depending on the current branch, but
>
> - if that is the only sane choice based on the current branch, why
>not use that as the default without having to set the
>configuration?
>
> - Or if that is still insufficient, don't we need branch.*.forkedFrom
>that is different from branch.*.merge, so that different branches
>you want to show "format-patch" output can have different
>reference points?
Yeah, I had similar thoughts. I personally use "branch.*.merge" as
"forkedFrom", and it seems like we are going that way anyway with things
like "git rebase" and "git merge" defaulting to upstream. But then there
is "git push -u" and "push.default = upstream", which treats the
upstream config as something else entirely.
So it seems like there is already some confusion, and either way we go,
thisis making it worse to some degree (I do not blame Ram, but rather he
has stumbled into a hidden sand pit that we have been building for the
past few years... :).
I wonder if it is too late to try to clarify this dual usage. It kind of
seems like the push config is "this is the place I publish to". Which,
in many workflows, just so happens to be the exact same as the place you
forked from. Could we introduce a new branch.*.pushupstream variable
that falls back to branch.*.merge? Or is that just throwing more fuel on
the fire (more sand in the pit in my analogy, I guess).
I admit I haven't thought it through yet, though. And even if it does
work, it may throw a slight monkey wrench in the proposed push.default
transition.
-Peff
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Ramkumar Ramachandra writes:
> Junio C Hamano wrote:
>> - why is a single branch name sufficient?
>
> It does accept a , so any form is allowed; but why would
> anyone want that in a format.defaultTo? I'm not sure we want to impose
> an artificial restriction on the configuration variable though.
I meant "a single branch" as opposed to "depending on what branch
you are sending out, you may have to use a different upstream
starting point", and a single "format.defaultTo" that does not read
what your HEAD currently points at may not be enough.
Unless you set @{u} to this new configuration, in which case the
choice becomes dynamic depending on the current branch, but
- if that is the only sane choice based on the current branch, why
not use that as the default without having to set the
configuration?
- Or if that is still insufficient, don't we need branch.*.forkedFrom
that is different from branch.*.merge, so that different branches
you want to show "format-patch" output can have different
reference points?
After all, "format-patch" to send things out to upstream is like
asking the other side to do a "rebase" you would do in your
repository, so whatever "git rebase" that were too lazy to specify
what the fork point was when applying may be a reasonable type-saver
default. Yes, sometimes people need to rebase onto somewhere they
did not fork from, but that is why they can give explicit $upstream
and $onto to the command---I do not think it is any different for
"format-patch".
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Jonathan Nieder wrote:
> 1. Most config settings are in noun form: e.g.,
> "[remote] pushDefault = foo". That makes their names easy to guess
> and makes them easy to talk about: I set the default remote for
> pushing by changing the remote.pushdefault setting.
>
> '[url ""] insteadOf' is an exception to that and a bit of an
> aberration.
>
> This new '[format] defaultTo' repeats the same end-with-a-preposition
> mistake, while I think it would be better to learn from it.
I agree that it's somewhat unconventional to allow people to put a
as a configuration variable value, but I think it's useful.
url..insteadOf is incredibly useful, for instance.
> 2. Wouldn't a more natural default be @{u}..HEAD instead of relying on
> the user to do the make-work of keeping a local branch that tracks
> master up to date?
Like I said in my message to Junio, @{u} is not necessarily the "best"
default for all workflows, although you can fill that into
format.defaultTo.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Junio C Hamano wrote:
> - why is a single branch name sufficient?
It does accept a , so any form is allowed; but why would
anyone want that in a format.defaultTo? I'm not sure we want to impose
an artificial restriction on the configuration variable though.
> - is it a better option to simply default to @{u}, if one exists,
>instead of failing?
I'm not sure @{u} is a good default. Personally, my workflow involves
publishing my fork before sending out patches; mainly so that I can
compare with @{u} when I do re-spins. People can put @{u} in
format.defaultTo if it suits their workflow though.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Ramkumar Ramachandra writes:
> A very common workflow for preparing patches involves working off a
> topic branch and generating patches against 'master' to send off to the
> maintainer. However, a plain
>
> $ git format-patch -o outgoing
>
> is a no-op on a topic branch,...
Two points.
- why is a single branch name sufficient?
- is it a better option to simply default to @{u}, if one exists,
instead of failing?
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] format-patch: introduce format.defaultTo
Hi,
Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
> a plain
>
> $ git format-patch -o outgoing
>
> is a no-op on a topic branch, and the user has to remember to specify
> 'master' explicitly everytime. Save the user the extra keystrokes by
> introducing format.defaultTo
Not excited. Two reasons:
1. Most config settings are in noun form: e.g.,
"[remote] pushDefault = foo". That makes their names easy to guess
and makes them easy to talk about: I set the default remote for
pushing by changing the remote.pushdefault setting.
'[url ""] insteadOf' is an exception to that and a bit of an
aberration.
This new '[format] defaultTo' repeats the same end-with-a-preposition
mistake, while I think it would be better to learn from it.
2. Wouldn't a more natural default be @{u}..HEAD instead of relying on
the user to do the make-work of keeping a local branch that tracks
master up to date?
Hope that helps,
Jonathan
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