[IAEP] Join my network on LinkedIn
LinkedIn David Van Assche has indicated you are a Friend -- I'd like to add you to my professional network. - David Van Assche Accept invitation from David Van Assche http://www.linkedin.com/e/wa89wc-hgrtfbyf-5i/XWe-FAnnZj4QsxtUTS1QQmnnx-eQyg25JWwYSD/blk/I91021229_246/3wOtCVFbmdxnSVFbm8JrnpKqlZJrmZzbmNJpjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfPoQcBYVcz8Ncz0NekALl397q7t1sScLcP0TdPgNcP8PcP4LrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=falsetok=17-Pu-s6gE55M1 View profile of David Van Assche http://www.linkedin.com/e/wa89wc-hgrtfbyf-5i/rso/27863899/y7xa/name/252489024_I91021229_246/?hs=falsetok=0wapqwTJAE55M1 -- You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Thomas Gilliard. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/wa89wc-hgrtfbyf-5i/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=falsetok=09zoqO8q0E55M1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Gamification in Sugar Network
Sure thing, we spoke about this at length and I think there were even screenshots made regarding gamifying sugar. I know we spoke about it with quite some enthusiasm during the Paris Sugar Convention, and then after that on the mailing lists. I think we might even have written something online about it. I, for one, think it would be almost an essential next step in the Sugar UI. But it would require getting all activity creators on board, as it probably can´t be done just on a centralised level. kind regards On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Hi all! It seems that the initial idea to have some gaming components in Sugar Network (pretty initial like Players instead of Users or Roles, and absent in current implementation) is a kind of global trend :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamification#cite_note-60 In any case, if Gamification is good for CRM (http://zurmo.org/blog/gamification) it should be even more natural for systems like Sugar Network, i.e., that are oriented to students and collaborative work on content. -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] gamifying education
I spoke about this with several sugarlabs folks a year or so ago. The idea was to add awards/points to the control panel for completing activities in various ways. In essence it meant making the OS seem more like a game than an educational tool. I know it sounds a bit like tricking kids into learning, but there are ways of doing this that would seem both fun, intuitive and uninvasive. It seems I'm not the only one thinking about this approach to educational activities. Here is a link that shows others doing the same with Android and iOS... It would really be nice to at least revive a conversation about this, I know at the time we even came up with screenshots of what such a system might look like. Here is the link: http://edudemic.com/2012/01/gamification-classroom/ kind regards, David van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] gamifying education
Further on this topic is this research project: http://www.dmlcompetition.net/Competition/4/research-proposals.php?show=dmlc-4rgid=2915 On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:39 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.comwrote: I spoke about this with several sugarlabs folks a year or so ago. The idea was to add awards/points to the control panel for completing activities in various ways. In essence it meant making the OS seem more like a game than an educational tool. I know it sounds a bit like tricking kids into learning, but there are ways of doing this that would seem both fun, intuitive and uninvasive. It seems I'm not the only one thinking about this approach to educational activities. Here is a link that shows others doing the same with Android and iOS... It would really be nice to at least revive a conversation about this, I know at the time we even came up with screenshots of what such a system might look like. Here is the link: http://edudemic.com/2012/01/gamification-classroom/ kind regards, David van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] collaboration in mainstream news
Nothing new to us, but perhaps interesting to see the perspective of mainstream education and how they both use collaboration and what they think of it. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/opinion/sunday/the-rise-of-the-new-groupthink.html?_r=1pagewanted=all They kind of say collaboration could be detrimental to personal learning and intellegence, which I really disagree with, but its an interesting article nevertheless. kind regards, David Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] Facebook introduce Línea de Tiempo - OFF TOPIC??
Hmmm, no entiendo muy bien las ideas or el interes por Moodle y Mahara. Me gustaria saber si alguien en alguna lado ha intentando llevar est symbiosis acabo. un salduo cordial, David Van assche 2011/12/20 Pato Acevedo patitoacev...@hotmail.com Hola: Espero esta reflexión en público sea un aporte para alguién mas aparte de Carlos. Mi primera idea fué contestar por mensaje directo, pero ya que vino por la lista respondo por aqui. Lo primero: El uso de facebook está supeditado a conocer sus políticas de privacidad. Las vigentes (porque hubo unas anteriores muy laxas que fueron bastante criticadas) están aqui_ http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150739959980301 Esa actividad como casi todos los juegos, hacen uso de la caractística social de la red, tomando de tu información básica lo necesario para compartir tus puntajes con tus amigos. Algo como, Carlos te ha superado en el duelo de cerebros. En este punto tienes la posibilidad de crear un perfil solo para probar el juego, pero te perderías de una caractrística importante de los juegos sociales. Algunos juegos mas que otros, tienen trofeos, fases, badget (igual que los de KhanAcademy, por ejemplo)y cuando obtienes uno, lo informa a tus amigos. Por supuesto, siempre es posible filtrar la información entrante y saliente desde tu cuenta, de acuerdo a como hallas configurado las políticas de privacidad de tu perfil. Por supuesto, el responsable de la información que has hecho pública no es facebook, eres tu. Cuando actualizas tu estado, defines a quién se lo compartes, publico, amigos, amigos excepto conocidos, etc. Tb existe la posibilidad de crear con tus contactos un grupo cerrado, definido por el creador por invitaciones, donde puedes seleccionar quien participa, nuevamente al actualizar tu estado, defines a quien quiere que llegue esa actualización. Lo mismo para un evento, donde defines que es, características, su duración y a quién invitas. Todavía no me veo en la necesidad de cometer un cibersuicidio, o tener dualidad de personalidades, toda mi interacción social con esta red es a través del mismo usuario. La clave está en saber filtrar correctamente que quieres mostrar y que no. Saludos Pato Acevedo -- From: car...@mac.com Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:03:42 -0200 To: olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Sur] Facebook introduce Línea de Tiempo - OFF TOPIC?? Pato, nuevamente gracias por compartir esta información. Seguí el enlace a BrainBuddies. Llegué hasta el primer clic cuando Facebook me dice: *Brain Buddies*http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=144030170500solicita permiso para hacer lo siguiente: - Acceder a mi información básica Incluye nombre, foto del perfil, sexo, redes, identificador de usuario, lista de amigos y cualquier otra información que yo haya hecho pública. Ahí paré hasta conocer tu opinión. Me da la impresión de que si doy este permiso, comenzará un ataque de mensajes no solicitados a mis amigos en Facebook. No creo su amistad conmigo dure mucho tiempo después de eso. Dices Yo mismo tengo un grupo cerrado de enseñanza secundaria, donde realizamos debatesmediados por los mismos alumnos, les preparo quizes temáticos, incluso los he puesto a medir su inteligencia Lo de los debates me parece una idea fantástica que debería ser imitada. ¿Podrías explicarnos un poco más en detalle lo del grupo cerrado? Me suena como que tienes una cuenta de Facebook que no la usas más que para estos debates y allí tus únicos amigos son los que participan en los debates??? Gracias desde ya, Carlos Rabassa Voluntario Red de Apoyo al Plan Ceibal Montevideo, Uruguay www.tiny.cc/AprendoILearn On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Pato Acevedo wrote: Hola: A mi me parece totalmente ON TOPIC (si existe algo como eso). Facebook es, sin lugar a dudas un lugar donde se están encontrando hoy Profesores y alumnos. Por lo menos como cultura general debería interesarnos. Profesores que se han dado cuenta de este hecho, han tomado la herramienta facebook y la han transformado en un recurso educativo más. http://www.facebook.com/pages/La-Historia-en-im%C3%A1genes/146434952059680 Otros lo ha usado para difundir frases celebres, y otros como un metamedio difusor de enlaces interesantes, videos, presentaciones u otros. La posibilidad de crear listas personalizadas permite filtrar a quién muestras tal o cual contenido. Yo mismo tengo un grupo cerrado de enseñanza secundaria, donde realizamos debatesmediados por los mismos alumnos, les preparo quizes temáticos, incluso los he puesto a medir su inteligencia http://apps.facebook.com/brainbuddies/?from=fb_book_urlref=ts Y que decir del requerimiento de una actividad simple que genere lineas de tiempo? Sin dudar
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] Facebook introduce Línea de Tiempo - OFF TOPIC??
[en] There is a social networking site/software specifically dedicated to education which fits incredible well with moodle, as in exchanging all wanted data via xml-rmpc. I'm rerferring to Mahara, which is quite easy to use for first time users due to its drag and drop interface. It would certainly be worth taking a look at. I've iintegrate the 2 before, and its worked quite beautifully. [es] Hay un sistema para redes sociales especifcamente hecho para educacion que combina perfectamente con moodle atravez de xml-rmpc. Hablo de Mahara.com que es muy facil de utilizar por su forma de utilizar un sistema similar a el de apple (drag and drop). Por supuesto vale la pena hechar le un vistazo. Yo lo he integrado personalmente en 2 ocasiones sin ningun problema y con muchas sonrisas por parte de las escuelas. un saludo, David Van Assche 2011/12/18 Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com Paolo, Pato, Parece que no estamos tan mal, tal vez no haya necesidad de clonar a nadie. Todo lo que necesitaremos es que haya más educadores como Pato Acevedo desde Chile y como Cecilia Manzi Servetti, desde Las Piedras, Uruguay, que responden a las preguntas que hacemos los que queremos aprender algo sobre educación para tratar de ayudar a todos. Muy interesante Pato el material en los vínculos que nos envías. Lamento decirte que tengo algunas preguntas y estoy acercándome a proponerte a las listas como nuestro consultor sobre usos de Facebook en la enseñanza. Envío a la lista el enlace que te envié hoy más temprano al artículo que apareció en el New York Times de hoy: **Rules to Stop Pupil and Teacher From Getting Too Social Online** http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/business/media/rules-to-limit-how-teachers-and-students-interact-online.html?nl=todaysheadlinesemc=tha25 cuyo título se traduce como Reglas para evitar que alumnos y maestros se vuelvan demasiado sociables en línea. Estoy de acuerdo contigo, y con muchísimos otros, que las redes sociales son una herramienta muy poderosa para muchos propósitos, incluyendo ayudar en la educación. También estoy de acuerdo con lo que dice este artículo sobre los muchos peligros que implica el usarlas mal. Veo en el artículo que en otros países están creando reglas de conducta que tratan de imponer a maestros y alumnos con la intención de evitar estos problemas. Pienso que si entre todos atacamos el problema antes de que llegue a progresar demasiado, tal vez podamos evitar a las autoridades la tentación de imponernos reglas. Pienso también que es irresponsable recomendar el uso de redes sociales sin tener en cuenta estos peligros y hacer algo por evitarlos. En mensajes separados iré haciendo mis preguntas. Gracias desde ya por atenderlas. Carlos Rabassa Voluntario Red de Apoyo al Plan Ceibal Montevideo, Uruguay On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Pato Acevedo wrote: Hola: A mi me parece totalmente ON TOPIC (si existe algo como eso). Facebook es, sin lugar a dudas un lugar donde se están encontrando hoy Profesores y alumnos. Por lo menos como cultura general debería interesarnos. Profesores que se han dado cuenta de este hecho, han tomado la herramienta facebook y la han transformado en un recurso educativo más. http://www.facebook.com/pages/La-Historia-en-im%C3%A1genes/146434952059680 Otros lo ha usado para difundir frases celebres, y otros como un metamedio difusor de enlaces interesantes, videos, presentaciones u otros. La posibilidad de crear listas personalizadas permite filtrar a quién muestras tal o cual contenido. Yo mismo tengo un grupo cerrado de enseñanza secundaria, donde realizamos debatesmediados por los mismos alumnos, les preparo quizes temáticos, incluso los he puesto a medir su inteligencia http://apps.facebook.com/brainbuddies/?from=fb_book_urlref=ts Y que decir del requerimiento de una actividad simple que genere lineas de tiempo? Sin dudar, facebook y las lineas de tiempo son tema de esta lista, en tanto paradigma educativo informal y formal. Patricio SugarLabs Chile -- Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:22:14 -0200 From: nanon...@mediagala.com To: olpc-...@lists.laptop.org Subject: Re: [Sur] Facebook introduce Línea de Tiempo - OFF TOPIC?? * On 17/12/2011 04:34 p.m., Carlos Rabassa wrote: ¿No sería mejor clonar a los mejores maestros uruguayos? * -- Cuando dije de Clonar a Walter quise decir de clonar también a Rosamel, Ana Cichero, Flavio Danese, etc etc Paolo Benini ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ IAEP -- It's An Education
Re: [IAEP] Teaching with computers / Enseniando con Computadoras
My take is simple... sugar should be sold and marketed as a product (like apple) but run as a project (apache, mozilla, launchpad, etc) surely, there must be a middle ground. We can learn from all software, and there is no reason to have to set limits and this point in time? OR are there? In which case, I'd like to know what they are in clear simple terms so we can move towards that? If not, we just have to wait and continue what we are doing... kind regards, David Van Assche On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:05 AM, Tabitha Roder tabi...@tabitha.net.nzwrote: On 21 November 2011 09:47, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I do have a suggestion which is actionable by those on this list: bug fixes are more important than new features. As a tester since mid 2008, I have come across a number of instances where the stable core activities (things like Write, Memorize, Record) have been broken in new builds. I would add my +1 to Tony's comment that bug fixes are more important than new features, and would say (though it is probably pretty obvious) that we should never ship a build where that core activity set is broken (core activities were defined once upon a time, I think there are 6). Tabitha ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Teaching with computers / Enseniando con Computadoras
Also, what makes apple great to most people is their hardware not their software, their latest OS both on touchpads and laptops is horribly buggy, and feels more like beta software than even windows 7... Sugar isn't perfect, but its far far less bloated than any other option available, and that makes it comfortable to code for, fun to use, and hopefully easier to teach with. If only there were more marketing, more money, more coders, etc,etc... That's the deal with all open source software though... eventually it seems, if one holds on long enough, all those things do come... look at mozilla, apache, mysql, or suse... either individuals or very big companies come in and help out... why should it be any different with Sugar? David Van Assche 2011/11/19 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com 2011/11/19 Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com: Traducción al Español sigue al texto en Inglés Warning: This link promotes Apple: http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/punahou/#video-punahou?sr=hotnews.rss I am sending it to Sugar devotees, not to plant heretic ideas among them, but proposing that we read it as a practice of critical thinking in an attempt to mine any good ideas from it. Just think for a moment that Apple is frequently considered the birthplace of the concept of using computers in education; maybe they know something on the subject. May I suggest we read the text in this link replacing any working computer for Apple. Many of the statements will still be true. Please notice many of the applications they use are not exclusive of Apple, they are also the basic and easier to use applications in the Sugar XOs like Navigate, Write, Record. Let´s try to imagine ourselves for a moment in front of a classroom about to decide how to use our computers. Most of the text refers to the way they teach rather than to specific applications. I quote a paragraph that summarizes my point of the last few days about the urgent need to perfect Sugar: Because the Mac and its applications are so easy to use and so closely integrated into the curriculum, teachers and students can focus on the quality and creative expression of learning, rather than on how to use the tools. One of the videos, linked from near the bottom of the page, about Central Elementary School in Escondido, California, called my attention among other reasons because they do not use fancy computers, they use an IPod Touch. List prices for individual purchases of IPods Touch start at $199. Traducción al Español Advertencia: Este enlace es una promoción de Apple: http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/punahou/#video-punahou?sr=hotnews.rss No lo estoy enviando a los devotos de Sugar para sembrar ideas heréticas entre ellos, sino proponiendo lo leamos como práctica de pensamiento crítico tratando de encontrar algunas buenas ideas en él. Pensemos por un momento que frecuentemente se considera a Apple como el lugar de nacimiento del concepto de usar computadoras en educación; tal vez ellos saben algo sobre el tema. Me permito sugerir que leamos el texto en este enlace remplazando Apple por cualquier computadora que funcione. Muchas de las afirmaciones seguirán siendo ciertas. Favor de notar que muchas de las aplicaciones que usan no son exclusivas de Apple; también son las básicas y más fáciles de usar entre las aplicaciones de Sugar en las XO, tales como Navegar, Escribir y Grabar. Imaginemos por un momento que estamos parados frente a una clase decidiendo cómo usar nuestras computadoras. La mayor parte del texto habla de cómo enseñan más que de aplicaciones específicas. Repito un párrafo que resume el punto que discutíamos en los últimos días sobre la necesidad urgente de perfeccionar Sugar: Siendo las [computadoras] Mac y sus aplicaciones tan fáciles de usar y tan integradas a la currícula, los maestros y los estudiantes pueden concentrar su atención en la calidad y expresión creativa de aprender, en vez de en cómo usar las herramientas. Me llamó la atención uno de los videos al final de la página, sobre Central Elementary School en Escondido, California, entre otras cosas, porque no usan computadoras lujosas sino un IPod Touch. El precio de lista para compra individual de los IPod Touch, comienza en 199 dólares. Carlos Rabassa Volunteer Plan Ceibal Support Network Montevideo, Uruguay ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep OK Carlos, we've heard your opinion. (1) You think Sugar is terrible (your stated reasons -- not enough professional developers and the community doesn't want feedback from teachers); (2) You think Apple products are great. You are welcome to your opinion. Now some facts. (1) We on this list are Sugar Labs
Re: [IAEP] Book about social mobilization
I'll translate if u like... I enjoy writing so it wouldn't be a big deal... David On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Pablo Flores pflor...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to share with you a book I worked in last year and recently got published as an e-book: Movilización social para Ceibal - Miradas al contexto nacional e internacional de proyectos de un computador por niño. The translation would be something like Social mobilization for Ceibal: Views of the national and international context of one computer per child projects. All articles are creative-commons licensed and can be downloaded in: http://www.movilizacionsocial.net/. The book was written by more than 30 authors from different countries, who have been involved in social activities supporting one computer per child projects in Uruguay and around the world. Unfortunately the book is only in Spanish in the moment. If someone has a proposal for translation please let me know. Saludos, Pablo Flores ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs: account confirmation
you are welcome to copy the material at linux-for-education.org, which has a lot of sugar material as well as fedora and even sugar in spanish.. kind regards, David V.A. P.S been meaning to upgrade look and feel but time is always an issue On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:18 AM, Kenneth Wyrick k...@caltek.net wrote: Thank you so much for the elp files. it's a great story and introduction to olpc...so many videos and they capture so much. Hi Everyone, I've been running the Australian training for teachers and the XO-certification course at laptop.moodle.com.au course is available for everyone to view when logged in as a guest. This course was mainly pulled together by myself and some other team members at OLPC Australia- Liddy Neville produced the previous course that some of you mentioned. It is no longer active and cannot be accessed. Anyone is welcome to use the course materials to build on for their own training purposes- it is (BY-NC-SA). The learner manual is a synthesis of much of the great info out already about the project and XOs- but it should be noted much of the technical information is specific to the Australian build. If you would like to rework it, it has been put together in a nice little tool called eXe (http://exelearning.org/wiki), another open source project, which allows you to export to interlinked html pages, and I have posted the manual here ( http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16659157/Modifications%20to%20manual%20for%20OLPC.zip). While the manual and course itself is available to reuse as you wish, please note that participant responses in forums or lessons they have posted are not- please don't reuse their work without asking them, especially since Australian teachers have varying intellectual property clauses related to their employment depending on the jurisdiction. The course is not available for enrolment for people outside the Australian program because I simply don't have time to facilitate that number of participants. It's also highly contextualised to Australia so it wouldn't necessarily make sense for teachers from other countries to work through it as is. Please feel free to email me if you have any further questions or I can help with anything. We're very keen to contribute to the OLPC international community if we can! Cheers, Tracy Richardson Education Manager OLPC Australia -Original Message- From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Taylor Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2011 11:52 AM To: fors...@ozonline.com.au Cc: tabi...@tabitha.net.nz; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; dfarn...@sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs: account confirmation Liddy is listed as the teacher / owner of the course. I sent her a message to get the key as the course access is restricted - disappointing for something that is part of an open community. Hope to hear from her and take a look around. It looks like she hasn't accessed this site in more than a year. If the Australia original site has been updated more recently, it would be most current. Thanks ..Valerie On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 9:27 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: What is the objective of these Moodle courses? Were they created for specific audiences? Would it be ok if others who are interested in Sugar access them? I could have this wrong, I would need to view the moodle resources, but I believe that it is a clone of a Moodle course done for OLPC Australia. The Australian version http://laptop.moodle.com.au/ could have later edits or may have abandoned all the early material, I am not sure. The original Moodle course by Liddy Neville was done for school teachers in the Australian deployments. Tony ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- http://64.27.24.247:8000/xowiki/en:weblog?summary=1 ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] New Finance Request: Airfare to EduJAM for Sebastian Silva
wow... one day I'll raise the money to go to said event wish you all the best and please keep us updated On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Tabitha Roder tabi...@tabitha.net.nzwrote: On 22 April 2011 16:41, Sebastian Silva sebast...@somosazucar.org wrote: As per the new http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Finance I'm asking for Sugar Labs to sponsor my airfare to Montevideo Sugar Summit EduJAM http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Uruguay_Summit_2011. For the olpc San Francisco bay community summit last year Adam Holt setup a way for people to make donations to cover DSD's flights; I think Adam used Paypal. Can we do something similar to help get Sebastian to EduJAM? Tabitha ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] Consulta sobre Curso de Python en Español
Hablo Español mas o menos perfectamente. Esto resulta por haber me mudado a el sur de España con mis padres cuando tenia menos de un año (Bueno... mis padres discuten el dato exacto, pero la verdad es que el resultado final es el mismo) Estudie Comunicaciones masivas en la universidad, y he trabajado bastatne fuertemente en el mundo del codigo abierto. Actualmente doy clases, algunos de programacíon, otros de diseño u finalmente optimizazion para los busquadores. Si puedo ayudar a distancia, lo haria con placer, y en el proximo Verano estaré en Paraguay/Uruguay para poder dar mas clases de forma mas practica. Saludos Cordiales, David Van Assche 2011/3/23 Gabriel Eirea gei...@gmail.com: Gonzalo: Este año estamos dictando por segundo año el curso Python para todos en la Facultad de Ingeniería de la Universidad de la República: http://iie.fing.edu.uy/cursos/course/view.php?id=173 Usamos el libro del mismo nombre (de Raúl González Duque) y el tutorial de Guido van Rossum como bibliografía principal. Hay mucho material libre disponible en la red pero estos dos son muy buenos como introducción al lenguaje. La metodología del curso incluye el concepto de extensión. Los estudiantes universitarios aprenden Python durante la mitad del semestre y durante la otra mitad van a los liceos a trabajar con estudiantes de secundaria, que tienen su XO. El resultado es muy satisfactorio. Saludos, Gabriel El día 23 de marzo de 2011 09:05, Gonzalo De Soto gdes...@adinet.com.uy escribió: Estimados integrantes de OLPC-SUR, Planteo una consulta de recomendación sobre un Curso de Python en español para difundir este lenguaje entre estudiantes universitarios. La consulta apunta principalmente a solicitar recomendaciones a quienes mejor conocen este lenguaje y han dictado cursos del mismo, respecto del material libre de cursos sobre Python en español, que faciliten el filtrado de las diferentes opciones existentes en internet. Agradezco desde ya las respuestas al respecto. Saludos. Gonzalo ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Any olpc/Sugar/ICT4E people in Spain?
While working at guadalinex I seriously pushed to include sugar. Resistance was futile as the Borg might say. You see they have a pretty established Linux environment that has many custom educational tools. It is an extremely uphill battle to get them using even a tiny part of sugar, and that coming from an ex-INSIDER. so good luck. Regards David On Mar 21, 2011 4:46 PM, Juan Rafael Fernández García jrf...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/3/21 Christoph Derndorfer e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at: Especially given how much Linux is used around schools in the country and that Latin America is... I'm also surprised that I've seen a bigger OLPC/Sugar community in France than in Spain. I have an explanation, though: PCs with some GNU Linux educational distro are deployed all around Spain, taken care of by the regional authorities, which makes the situation different from the French one (individual or local initiatives) or the Central/South American one (OLPC or similar hardware). Consider the case in Andalusia. All the computers, the thousands of them, are administered and updated remotely - so the operating system has to be the same all around, the network configuration and services, etc. From the Spanish point of view, Sugar running on GNU LInux, as an environment like Squeak, would be more interesting than as an alternative independent approach. IMHO. -- Juan Rafael Fernández http://people.ofset.org/jrfernandez/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Any olpc/Sugar/ICT4E people in Spain?
Bah... ok...perhaps that was a bit of harsh statement. meh would be better... However, I have met many south Americans down here who want to get involved and us the sugar environment in their future endevours once they return home. I worked for Guadalinex.-edu, the largest single Linux deployment in the world conclusion: Great softwware, not tailored enough for them (5 million computer, 500 laptops per year, Ubuntu latest, but via something complex like rsync or anything like that... that just made a great job at adding important parts if they were educational, and spoke about them the folllowing year to see if others might want to include it. The biggest advantage here is that because Spain now had over 10 years fo successfully using Linux in all areas of life, its just a mtter of showing any new things to make teahcers lives easier and really kissing their asses so they cna push the rest if spain. Its clear though, Linux is here to stay in Andalucia now hwat to u primtive northern folks say to that. kind regrads, David Van Assche [Please Please read above] On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Gustavo Ibarra ibarr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: Not an OLPC project, but there is a lot of Linux in the schools in Extremadura. You could talk to the local government about using Sugar on their laptops. http://news.squeak.org/2006/11/17/squeak-in-extremadura/ more related links: http://tinyurl.com/5w7ocee http://squeak.educarex.es/Squeakpolis squeakpo...@juntaextremadura.net Diego an José L worked in the squeak inextremadura project and as far as iknow they live in spain Diego Gomez Deck diegogomezd...@consultar.com José L. Redrejo Rodríguez jredr...@edu.juntaextremadura.net Have you asked on the OLPC-SUR list? There seems to have been a very modest OLPC España effort, but its Wiki page has vanished away. Perhaps you can help restart it. On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 05:56, Christoph Derndorfer e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Hi all, as some of you might know I moved to Madrid about a month ago How's your Spanish? and will be here at least until the end of May but possibly also until late summer. Now I was wondering whether anyone here knows people working on olpc/Sugar/ICT4E who are based here in Madrid or elsewhere in Spain? I've looked around quite a bit but unfortunately didn't find anything related to olpc/Sugar/ICT4E so far, plus similarly minded communities (e.g. LUGs, hacker spaces, etc.) also seem to be quite rare around here. Well the first step has been to try and get `people together here which is damn hard... Iv'e ad 4-5 people involed here and we are quickly moving towards creating a more ideas towards creating some sort of charter fo what is an ettiquette of sorts, but nothing too restrictive, more things like, if u'd like to something, then just set a non conflicting date and do it David Anyway, I'd appreciate any pointers, suggestions or contacts in this area. Thanks, Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://www.earthtreasury.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Saludos, Gustavo.- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Any olpc/Sugar/ICT4E people in Spain?
In spain, most autonomous regions have their own distro, which means that in essence getting pro-linux, and even quite techinically savy folks in that domain should be pretty easy to find. I know Madrid itself has its own autonomous linux distro called distro MAX (Madrid Linux) Of course, it often becomes a marketing competition rather than something else, but it does mean a high usage of linux across the public board. Trying to get them to include new things though, is sometimes very very hard (example: sugar) But good luck, David Van Assche On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Gustavo Ibarra ibarr...@gmail.com wrote: you might want to write to Diego Gomez Deck http://diegogomezdeck.blogspot.com/ On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Christoph Derndorfer e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Hi all, as some of you might know I moved to Madrid about a month ago and will be here at least until the end of May but possibly also until late summer. Now I was wondering whether anyone here knows people working on olpc/Sugar/ICT4E who are based here in Madrid or elsewhere in Spain? I've looked around quite a bit but unfortunately didn't find anything related to olpc/Sugar/ICT4E so far, plus similarly minded communities (e.g. LUGs, hacker spaces, etc.) also seem to be quite rare around here. Anyway, I'd appreciate any pointers, suggestions or contacts in this area. Thanks, Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Saludos, Gustavo.- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] spanish localization administrator needed
I am still willing to help out with this, I just need to know what exactly needs to be done, where to start, how much needs to be done, etc. details... but I'm happy to help, even if its 30 mins per day kind regards, David Van Assche On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Carlos Rabassa car...@mac.com wrote: Tomeu, don´t think I am hiding after all you helped me understand a lot of the aspects of Sugar. I saw your message. Maybe it requires clarifying a few aspects of your request. Right now I am constantly translating for other groups so it is not likely I will volunteer but maybe if you explain a bit more, someone will come up. Question to clarify: What is a translator ... without needing much English nor technical skills. going to do that anyone else cannot do? My feeling from what I read in several forums is, and please correct me if I am wrong: Anyone wishing to venture beyond using the applications already offered to the general public such as Turtleart, Scratch, Etoys and others, must be able to communicate in English. It is OK if their English is a bit Tarzanesque or might smell to an automatic translator but has to be English. All translation efforts should be directed to final users, this is teachers and students. On Oct 13, 2010, at 4:19 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 15:44, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Hi, we need someone to take care of coordinating the translation of Sugar to Spanish. It's an excellent opportunity to give back to the community without needing much English nor technical skills, but it's very important and affects very directly the quality of the Sugar releases as used in South and Central America. Is anybody interested in doing this work? Hi, we still need someone to coordinate the Spanish localization effort. If someone has ideas about how we can better fill this role, please share. Regards, Tomeu Thanks, Tomeu ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] What is the purpose of Sugar and the XO?
There a are a set of courses that should help kid and adults with sugar here: www.linux-for-education.org d Just scroll down and u'll see tge sugar based courses. There is a huge number of really good illusrtrated courses in Spanish but that woudld mean me translating them which I just dont have time for. I'm putting them up in Spanish as and wehn though... kind regards, David Van Assche P.S, There is a sugar taxonommy whichyou can feel free to add to. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 12:53 AM, Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.comwrote: Caryl, I agree with you on this. I think, with Sugar (both with and without the XOs) we have a powerful set of tools for both independent learning and cooperative learning. Every day, I found myself challenged to help our 5th grade teachers made their curricula come alive in brand new ways with these tools. Gerald On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.comwrote: Hi All, I am seeing more and more folks who want free XOs to teach children IT skills and computer skills. I think we need to somehow re-emphasize the value of the XO as a learning tool for subject matter related to the school curriculum and meta learning. The Sugar software is such an important part of this. All the other features of Sugar and the XO-1, which allow the programs to integrate and and allow project based, collaborative learning, are important as well. There are other low-cost laptops that don't do all the wonderful things the XO does that would work just as well for learning IT or computer skills. If that is all they are interested in, perhaps they should look elsewhere. Caryl (aka Grumpy Grannie) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Jonathan Swifthttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html - May you live every day of your life. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] stat collecto activity
The new google wave stuff made me think of a maybe interesting activity that would be very easy to write but might be useful for teachers to gain feedback from their students, while treating them more as peers in the constructionist philosophy. The idea is, to have a a multiple choice like activity that would ask students about their experience of lessons. For example, lets say they have been learning algebra, the teacer could get them to launch an activity that asks questions like with multiple answers like: The most difficult part to learn was a) blah, b) bleh, c) bluh, The most fun part was a)) glah b) gleh c) gluh What do u think would something like that be useful? The problem I see is that the teacher would actuallly have o create the questions and answers, so it might seem like too redundant. I guess the best way would be for the teacher to get the students to create these quizzes (for lack of a better word) would be very simple to create such an activity. Would there be ebnough demand and usage of such ab activity? regards, David Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Stat collection
Yes it is quite similar indeed, but I think it'd better be served with python and telepathy as an activity from within sugar, rather thn a dlasbb /web app.I guess its mostly a personal thing, but I have an exteme dislike of Flash based apps... In LTSP labs, for exmple, unless u are running firefox+flash as local apps, fkash has a tendency to bring the network to its knees. I havent considered how/why do use d-tubes yet, but I'm sure there is a goiod way to use them. Karma might be another way to do this, as long as it wouldn't require flash (an unesccasary demand) Anyway, might be wiirth integrating int another quiz app I did, pyqclic as it already has the necessary underlying frameqork. I's bw happy to work with you on this however if u are keen to port your prototype to python and use telepathy bindings for collaboration. I guess need to figure out how ti best use collbab here, but what comes to mind is, passing the app around the class and having every student write a question for the quiz, then have the teacher review, and export the finished product as an XML document which would then be capable of running in Moodle, inside Sugar itself, or even a web app. btw, just read a little deeper and realise your end result would be python too, a good choice... so what's holding u back from doing it irght now? I also see that your aim is really a general multiple choice quiz for whatever subject, while what I was getting at was more of collecting statistical data on particular lessons. Even so, the same framework could be used for both approaches. Anyway, pyqclic is extremely similar except visual in that the teacher uploads an image points and clicks on the image and then fills in the label. The student then uses the tester to fill in the labels. I think we could use a similar apprioach and even add it as another module, so the teacher can choose which kind of quiz they'd like (visual, multiple choice suubject based, or statistical, whatever else we've missed, perhaps essay based quiz or something) Anyway, the real challenge is how to use collab with this properly. I've gotten stuck on that oart in pyqcclic for a whilke now... as my initial idea was to pass the app from collaborating student to student letting each fill in a label. An approach I can think of and like is this could be mixed with the multiple choice, so that its a bit more random, yet still subject based, so as to cover more ground with the abilitity to export the whole quiz as an XML doc and import into Moodle or something else and perhaps have the statistical gathering as a totally seperate module what do u think? kind Regard, David Van Assche On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 5:57 AM, ALEXANDER JONES (RIT Student) acj3...@rit.edu wrote: Please check out http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Teacher%27s_Tools it's a project that i've been working on and have posted several emails to several mailing lists about. It is extremely similar and i have gotten positive feedback from a few people about its usability. feel free to comment on it yourself if you're interested The new google wave stuff made me think of a maybe interesting activity that would be very easy to write but might be useful for teachers to gain feedback from their students, while treating them more as peers in the constructionist philosophy. The idea is, to have a a multiple choice like activity that would ask students about their experience of lessons. For example, lets say they have been learning algebra, the teacer could get them to launch an activity that asks questions like with multiple answers like: The most difficult part to learn was a) blah, b) bleh, c) bluh, The most fun part was a)) glah b) gleh c) gluh What do u think would something like that be useful? The problem I see is that the teacher would actuallly have o create the questions and answers, so it might seem like too redundant. I guess the best way would be for the teacher to get the students to create these quizzes (for lack of a better word) would be very simple to create such an activity. Would there be ebnough demand and usage of such ab activity? regards, David Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Charles de Gaulle - The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs. - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] SLs Chile and GNOME Chile
Hi Werner, I don't know if you know this, but both Sugar an Gnome share identical code for collaboration and communication in the form of Telepathy dbus api (http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/) The only difference is that at the time their presence service was not so advanced, so Sugar has its own. Telepathy has since really mattured though, and mission control 5, that includes an advanced presence service that hopeffuly some folks are porting to latest sugar,, David Van Assche On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Werner Westermann werne...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Tomeu, regards from Santiago, Chile. GNOME community, as far as I know, it had a lot of ups and down in their effort to build collaborative work. I really don't know if there's some counterpart to talk to. This is no sin for any free-software community, but it gets hard to coordinate any kind of cooperation. Where do you see that there's potential around Chile? Are yo talking to chileans involved with GNOME? I must say that stimulating GNOMErs to work around Sugar could be a good idea, but I feel that should come from GNOME's vision and scope. Two chileans are in GNOME's board (Germán Poo http://www.calcifer.org/ and Fernando San Martín http://blogs.gnome.org/fsmw/), and maybe they could help. Is there any work going around SL and GNOME today? Best wishes, werner 2009/11/2 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org Hi, have you considered reaching GNOME Chile for cooperation? Sugar's code is more than 90% from GNOME and the two upstreams regularly cooperate. There's lots of potential for resource pooling in the technical level, and also in the advocacy for free software in education. Regards, Tomeu -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Mike Ditka - If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms. - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mike_ditka.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] voip.sugarlabs.org
Surely it would make more sense to take it down a level and use telepathy as the comms insftracture and from there use SIP where needed, but also chat, MUC, dbus-dbus tubes, video and audio group streaming and everything else xmpp is so good at. A communications box if you will, with it being kinda like the master with the jabber server installed on it? food for thought? On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Potentially, this could be particularly interesting for press briefings. Effective PR structure, involves inviting a small group of journalists to briefings, usually just prior to launches, or to put out PR fires. When the group is small, listen/talk can be open to everyone. For larger groups, it's listen-only and a moderator handles a question queue, opening talk to key questioners in turn. There are of course lots of commercial services for this type of thing, but it would be great if we had that available to us. Sean On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:16 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: El Thu, 29-10-2009 a las 15:58 -0700, Sameer Verma escribió: Hi Bernie, What's the purpose of this VoIP box? Primarily conferencing. In the future, we might want to use it for end-user technical support and things like that. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Samuel Goldwyn - I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong. - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tutorius Demo and Meeting
Please put them in linux-for-education.org. Pages too if u do more work doing than the person that currently has one not only do you get his (his responsibility to engraveI lost this tshirt in good shame and faith, but by the batttlecry of Eureeeka, I will reclaim it one again-2 to Full Name I think its a fun idea, and it could be a thing for various distros and various themes. Almost like pledges to get, like in xbox-playstation(nintendo) Lets say for Linux-for-education.org there are only 10 tshirts for now. the major distros do somethin similar, doesnt even have to be in area of IT a cool limited edition t-shirt, This should put some computition into dox writing triaging and bug bashing. Along with the pages, we must have at least 1 judge, robbed, robber eh achhievements. publicly show it off in the liunux wall of shame page. On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Erick Lavoie erick.lav...@gmail.com wrote: As discussed before, Tutorius is a project done by 9 students from Université de Sherbrooke (Québec, Canada) aiming to integrate interactive tutorials inside Sugar to guide Sugar users in learning the platform and its activities. Our goal for december is to be able to cover most of the content of the Floss manual. We are doing this along 3 axis: Execution: Add the mecanisms needed to Sugar to support execution of tutorials Creation: Provide tools to create tutorials from within Sugar in a GUI environment Sharing: Provide a platform to share tutorials on the web We have shown demos in the past of basic capabilities (in chronological order), here, here and at a presentation given last April. Next Friday, we will hang around on IRC at 13h EST and give a live demo of the current state of the project using Yuuguu or something equivalent, with an execution engine running in a separate process than the activity, an overhauled tutorial creator (still running inside the activity process) and maybe a quick overview of the sharing platform based around the addon sharing platform from Mozilla. We would like to exchange ideas with people and discuss technical matters with the following goals: Receive feedback on the work done so far Discuss the possible integration of our system with Sugar, the SugarLabs sharing platform and the official release cycle Anticipate possible evolutions Exchange ideas and pointers to similar work and papers to inspire ourselves and avoid duplicating research efforts Our team will disband around mid-december, but I'll keep maintaining the project and there might be possibilities for another team of 6-8 people from Université de Sherbrooke to push the project further in January for another year. It would be really exciting to see a collaboration with SugarLabs continue in the future! For those interested in a more technical view of the inner working of the system, see Tutorius Architecture, especially the Component section. See you on IRC on Friday at 13h EST! Erick Lavoie for Tutorius ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Ted Turner - Sports is like a war without the killing. - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] 3D Objects in education?
oh yes, trace to bitmap. Elemental. Then u can get then te shade pictures of their faces whichb is great from about 10-20 images. But this swhere linux-for-eduaction.org really comes in handy one site kids ended up loving to to bits was, nic.ubu,nu, wthich you probably know seeing as you use with fgubbbry looking ghod, i IF I had to chose my FOSS tool, for the Nobel Price, it would be Inkscaoe, -apparently a lot hard hard hacking ha to happen to git it sugarised. but wnere there jis s a challege their migt be undermployed enthusastic overworkerd Eaurasins It actually all sounds a little political me becuasw idf you think about Inkscape shouts out wanting to be its mascot proudct. Its dead easy to use fi reachesmsteundsa dn -teacers- and there is lots, and I mean really a heck ofa lots... And if just some of you (yes! you know who you are) spent 15 minutes making a moodle course (thereis even a how do I makerty iy a moodle course in video format!) but it is essentially just pick a localised setion, concept: Golf Course creator (pro-.sellable, expandable, etc) DO IT! Spend 15 miuttes today... learn 2 2things at once (they say we cant really multitask, prove them wong) so, in grandma fromat: - install inkscape - go to linux-for-education.org and choose an inskpe resource, believe me there are many - ytry it out, some are more difficult thna others - write the moodle course, in doc format if you are woos and need me gonconvet it to moodle format for you. Il patronise you of course as that js my perogative,. Onxomes ubn Sat, Oct 24, 2kn9 at 6:55 PM, cristian paul penaranda rojas p...@kristianpaul.org wrote: hi My name is Cristian Paul, i'm part of the local sugarlabs teamr in Colombia rr Since the middle of this year i began thinking about how free/libre design electronics projects like arduino/sanguino/pinguino could help to improve science learning in sugar, my first tought was about the use an arduino derivative called pinguino [1], an try to make a small and cheap scope [2] (like measure) that can be attached to the computer that run sugar, it will allow measure environment variables like temperature, light, resistence and sound may be, this idea still in design i got some parts of the software and hardware components but sugarize is not started yet. What this have to do with 3D objets?, well i think some of you had read the post in olpc-news about a repraped view finder for XO, that was made by reprap [3], well, this new revolution about local/home fabrication of 3D objects is opening a new path, and i think and believe some how, that education if one of then, but due the lack of knowledge that i have about that field, ideas dont rise as i wish they do, besides make a case for my pinguino/arduino scope and some puzzle games :P. I think 3D priting revolution can help as free software does, to improve educational processes. So, i'm asking here, about ideas related with this phisical computing stuff plus 3D objets [4], education and sugar environment. In a moth or less i hope, i'll join this 3D priting revolution (got a reprap printer dervivate [5]), so i'll be able to reproduce locally, cheap and with full autonomy 3D objets for almost any porpuse. Critics, suguestions are wellcome, i really need to go beyond i know is posible, just need a bit of comunity help Thanks for reading saludos Cristian Paul Peñaranda [1] http://www.hackinglab.org/pinguino/index_pinguino.html [2] http://co.sugarlabs.org/go/Sobre_Measure [3] http://reprap.org [4] http://makerbot.com [5] http://thingiverse.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Pablo Picassohttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html - Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Fwd: 3D Objects in education?
wow gmail just doesnt like me today -- Forwarded message -- From: David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com Date: Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [IAEP] 3D Objects in education? To: cristian paul penaranda rojas p...@kristianpaul.org Cc: iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org oh yes, trace to bitmap. Elemental. Then u can get then te shade pictures of their faces whichb is great from about 10-20 images. But this swhere linux-for-eduaction.org really comes in handy one site kids ended up loving to to bits was, nic.ubu,nu, wthich you probably know seeing as you use with fgubbbry looking ghod, i IF I had to chose my FOSS tool, for the Nobel Price, it would be Inkscaoe, -apparently a lot hard hard hacking ha to happen to git it sugarised. but wnere there jis s a challege their migt be undermployed enthusastic overworkerd Eaurasins It actually all sounds a little political me becuasw idf you think about Inkscape shouts out wanting to be its mascot proudct. Its dead easy to use fi reachesmsteundsa dn -teacers- and there is lots, and I mean really a heck ofa lots... And if just some of you (yes! you know who you are) spent 15 minutes making a moodle course (thereis even a how do I makerty iy a moodle course in video format!) but it is essentially just pick a localised setion, concept: Golf Course creator (pro-.sellable, expandable, etc) DO IT! Spend 15 miuttes today... learn 2 2things at once (they say we cant really multitask, prove them wong) so, in grandma fromat: - install inkscape - go to linux-for-education.org and choose an inskpe resource, believe me there are many - ytry it out, some are more difficult thna others - write the moodle course, in doc format if you are woos and need me gonconvet it to moodle format for you. Il patronise you of course as that js my perogative,. Onxomes ubn Sat, Oct 24, 2kn9 at 6:55 PM, cristian paul penaranda rojas p...@kristianpaul.org wrote: hi My name is Cristian Paul, i'm part of the local sugarlabs teamr in Colombia rr Since the middle of this year i began thinking about how free/libre design electronics projects like arduino/sanguino/pinguino could help to improve science learning in sugar, my first tought was about the use an arduino derivative called pinguino [1], an try to make a small and cheap scope [2] (like measure) that can be attached to the computer that run sugar, it will allow measure environment variables like temperature, light, resistence and sound may be, this idea still in design i got some parts of the software and hardware components but sugarize is not started yet. What this have to do with 3D objets?, well i think some of you had read the post in olpc-news about a repraped view finder for XO, that was made by reprap [3], well, this new revolution about local/home fabrication of 3D objects is opening a new path, and i think and believe some how, that education if one of then, but due the lack of knowledge that i have about that field, ideas dont rise as i wish they do, besides make a case for my pinguino/arduino scope and some puzzle games :P. I think 3D priting revolution can help as free software does, to improve educational processes. So, i'm asking here, about ideas related with this phisical computing stuff plus 3D objets [4], education and sugar environment. In a moth or less i hope, i'll join this 3D priting revolution (got a reprap printer dervivate [5]), so i'll be able to reproduce locally, cheap and with full autonomy 3D objets for almost any porpuse. Critics, suguestions are wellcome, i really need to go beyond i know is posible, just need a bit of comunity help Thanks for reading saludos Cristian Paul Peñaranda [1] http://www.hackinglab.org/pinguino/index_pinguino.html [2] http://co.sugarlabs.org/go/Sobre_Measure [3] http://reprap.org [4] http://makerbot.com [5] http://thingiverse.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Pablo Picassohttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html - Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Ogden Nash http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html - The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up, it's always a cat. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] thin clients
Actually without getting people wirngingling their fists, I'd have to say that due to Open Suse's policy of basically lending an open hand to anyone with magical ideas, and then not only allowing you to use their name, but also their inframagic, from Opensuse Buidle Service to Suse Studio, to creating yout own web domain hosted under novel, yet without the requirement to carry novell only soft on it, (linux-for-education.org is a good example) it has allowed them to kind of leap frog over some of the competition, though no one likes to admit this. For example in the case of LTSP an easy visual setp facility was built in, along with trying it out even before installing, Sugar on kiwi-ltsp was working just fine the last time I took a look, though that has admittadly beena while. I made back then to include as many well working fully functional sugar apps on both the sugar only cd and the whole edu dvd. The whole EDU dvd is truly a work of art, and is where a lot of the other distros could be at it if werent for politics. But hey I'm currently mixxed ina small telepathy based collaborative quiz ( git.sugarlabs.org/projects/pyclic) and some larger telepathy based/LTSP/Sugar/Wirelss/XMPP based suff... but I'll try and get this email to push me update sugaresuse.. anyw more questions... just ask.. D On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:32 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote: On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Deborah Boatwright boatwrig...@newmarket.k12.nh.us wrote: Hello, I am intrigued by many aspects of Sugar on a Stick. My school uses Novell with Windows XP on the desk top. Then I have a thin client network using LTSP-KIWI Opensuse that does not work well. It is two servers and 72 thin clients. I have a mobile laptop lab of 24 PC that are R30 thinkpads. My question is I found this site and wondered if I can use Sugar as an application on my thin clients. http://en.opensuse.org/Sugar Short answer is yes you can. Longer answer it might take some work. From what I have seen, OpenSuse is the current leader in education solutions base on thin clients. I am ccing David Van Assche, the opensuse package maintainer. He will be most knowledgeable about (or can refer you to knowledgeable people) deploying Sugar on OpenSuse in a thin client environment. david The district has said it is switching to linux 100% and will use a windows application server to deliver apps that are necessary otherwise. Sincere Regards, Deb ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Stephen Leacockhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html - I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I shall some day die, which is not so. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] changes in outlook with Sugar (was Re: Comments on David Kokorowski, David Pritchard and Mastering Educational SW)
This is not meant as an outward criticism or anything, but why is their this keen insistence on re-designing the wheel... (Moodle) when it not only excels at what it does, but has been integrated with XS going on years now... Now what would be cool is external python tools/activities/apps that synch with it. Would be relatively easy, and in fact I created pyqclicuser and admin a while back... but there is no reason we can't put the user part into moodle, since its all XML anyway. I believe this is the way hotpotatoes works. kind regards, David Van Assche On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Martin, Very well thought out observations and comments! These give a sense of what lies beyond the first set of ideas everyone has to why the real deal has not been accomplished over the last 50 years. Cheers, Alan -- *From:* Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com *To:* Erick Lavoie erick.lav...@gmail.com *Cc:* Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; K. K. Subramaniam subb...@gmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-narrati...@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 3, 2009 12:50:07 AM *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] changes in outlook with Sugar (was Re: Comments on David Kokorowski, David Pritchard and Mastering Educational SW) On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Erick Lavoieerick.lav...@gmail.com wrote: The high level roadmap I would suggest to end up with a mentoring system would be: Excellent post - thanks! While Alan's posts are inspiring, my hands can help with something like your roadmap more effectively than with raising 19B USD :-) A partial answer to the motivation problem Alan talked about in mastering a skill like reading would be in my opinion to provide constant feedback on the progress of a learner in pursuit of a goal. Such feedback seems to be the key behind the success of a system like Nike+ and the addicting effect of video games. I think it could be replicated for a learning environment by showing the mastership level of different skills needed to achieve a goal and their evolution in time. I find this part problematic, however. Been working in software related to e-learning for ~9 years, and the computer is really limited (ie: stupid) at measuring whether the user can achieve interesting and useful goals. Games do provice the continuous feedback you mention, but they work on things the computer can understand. And the computer cannot understand much, actually. Attempts to make the computer assess complex things are usually based on very creative use (by the designers / programmers) of simple rules; and these attempts impress adults... but when you see kids using them, they _immediately_ figure out that the real game is to play to the mechanics, as implemented. In other words, they learn to trick the computer. And they learn it fast! The roadmap you outline works towards a very important toolset -- building tutorials on how to use things is a powerful thing. And getting kids to build tutorials themselves on skills they just acquired is a great tool to work on the skill and deepen it. But it is not a tool to develop non-computer skills. Clearly, we have strong hints on how to build effective self-learning tools for a specific subset of skills (ie: computer-use skills, and computer-assessable-skills), but these techniques don't apply well to topics outside those specific areas (as far as I can see, glad to be proved wrong). I naturally worry about this leading to a heavily biased set of tools; tools that help with that narrow slice we know how to deal with... and leave a huge, glaring gap. I guess there are two ways about this. We can embrace the narrowness of our help, and perhaps even reinforce it by making explicit the narrow focus, so nobody thinks we're out to cover much. Or we can work on approaches that cover a wider area, and I am thinking very specifically about social constructivism here. My preference -- as you can guess now -- is to understand how can we aim for wider tools and approaches that take advantage of social dynamics. These will be perhaps less directly effective in their feedback loop (addictiveness, stickiness, etc), but will be able to deal with the kind of skills that computers can't help with. For all the fascination that computer games (solo and networked) cause, the behaviour I see in game players is that past the initial exploratory stage players are _always_ playing to the mechanical rules. If they don't know the metaphor that those rules stand in for, they don't actually learn it. cheers, martin -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project
Re: [IAEP] CurrWiki, documenting deployments (was Re: IAEP Digest, Vol 11, Issue 47)
Out of curiosity, did anything come of this... or are we at the same stage as when this email was written in terms of a deployment plan for curriculum content? On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:21 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Bryan Berry br...@olenepal.org wrote: Some comments, Most of the folks running deployments are so busy running them that they don't have time to document their work or share their experiences. Greebo is a notable exception and I am continually astounded by her productivity and quality. I think it would be extremely helpful for someone outside of a deployment to go to a well-run one-- and not necessarily large one-- and document their work. I would particularly like to learn about David Leeming's experiences in Oceania. He may be doing the best job of running deployments in the world right now but he doesn't have time to document his work. I would be delighted to do that, and so would FLOSS Manuals. Let's talk offline. Christoph Derndorfer is coming to Nepal for the summer and we hope that he can help us better document our work and communicate our requirements. I will try to make a better effort at joining the IRC meetings for deployments. When are they again? From Michael's questions: * Is there anything we could spend our time on which would yield a greater return on investment? The most helpful thing I can think of right now would be a special-purpose website/wiki only for curricula. +1 Earth Treasury would be happy to host that on our new server, as part of our Digital Textbooks initiative. Each curriculum should map to a course in moodle.sugarlabs.org. We need to start the process of mapping standard curricula to the open-source resources (quizzes, readings, activities) that are available in some sort of intelligible order. Then an interested developer or educator could start plugging in the holes. Really, all is needed is some kind of special-purpose wiki mapped to moodle. No special software. The hard and incredibly *unsexy* work is uploading the n curricula from X states/countries and mapping it to sequenced materials. We can talk about quality, pedagogy ad infinitum but the vast majority of teachers don't have a starting point to even provide mediocre education beyond what they are currently provided by their own governments. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.net/ (Ed Cherlin) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Joan Crawfordhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html - I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I earn, I spend. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki?
The biggest job in things like Moodle and its courses is really categorisation and the best way to go about doing this. You often end up restructuring the whole menu system over and over as subjects and languages pop up, ans subcatagories seem to move from location to location. For example, the learning how to use Sugar courses I made are really for specific subjects like programming, usage, maintenance, etc. But I grouped them all under one subheading until there is enough material to warrant creating other sections. I would suggest doing something similar. That is to say, start off with subject sections that are quite broad and general so it looks like there is a significant amount of content available. And then slowly start changing the categories. In terms of the database you mention, I'm not sure if you mean using the database module that is included with moodle, just for subjects and the usage thereof. Is what you want a kind of launchpad for subjects? Either way the database module is extremely powerful, and can be used for almost anything to categorise and link its details to the content in the courses. If you do need help on creating or maintaining a database, let me know... kind Regards, David Van Assche. On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: I see that Moodle can support a MySQL database. Has anybody implemented a system with a database of learning modules that a teacher can select from in creating a course? If so, then we can design such a database for easy searching by various relevant criteria and for linking modules together in sequences that respect topic dependencies. Bryan Berry has suggested that we need something like 10,000 modules for every topic in every subject at every grade level in K-12. I am thinking of an architecture in which we could provide places for multiple versions of each topic module using different instructional methods keyed to different learning styles in different languages and cultures. For example, I might offer a lesson plan using Walter Bender's Turtle Art Portfolio functions and Alan Kay's Etoys/Smalltalk approach. You can get a bit of the flavor in my reworking of an Alan Kay lesson sequence on Galilean gravity at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Gravity.odt I intend to redo this again entirely in Turtle Art Portfolio soon, now that I have a lot more of the bits and pieces of my approach coming together. -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Joan Crawfordhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html - I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I earn, I spend. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Moodle Integration Status - Was Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki?
I believe Dennis Daniels has done a lot of work in this area, at least the screencasts part of it. I've forwarded this mail to him to so he can tell you what, if anything he's got, and if not, he'll probably be glad to create something. David On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.comwrote: Hi David, Thank you for this email. To the extent Moodle/Sugar integration works I want to use it! GPA has its own private XS system, auto login is working fine. I am testing the file backup today. One of the things we need to solve is getting Teacher templates out to all the students and student work in to teacher efficiently. Is there documentation? Can you make me a screen cast? This may well be valuable enough that its worth helping the teachers and students climb the UIs learning curve. On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 3:08 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.comwrote: Actually, points 4.1 and 4.2 have been integrated into moodle for quite a while now. Perhaps its the flexibility which is making these possibilities hidden, that and their particular use of wording. Unfortunately, people tend to not use the full capaccity of its uses until they completly understand what they are doing, as moodle gives an almost infinte amount of ways to manipulate data. As Martin Langhoff has pointed out on numerous accassions, we need to drop funcinality until the User interface is easily understnadble by all, something he has gracefully offered to do over the next couple of moths, So, with a customised, simplifie versin of moodle and what it does (course management, which to me is very much linked with creating and presenting lesson plans is perfect for the job. I am of course interesting in what the lesson plan/ course will loook like if it is not based on the moodle infraastricture. What is absolutely needed is some extra volunteering ti totally simplify the UI, something that might take a while but was already started by Martin and co. n On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: Hi Chris, I think the right answer is to put our materials on both your system and Curriki for now and hopefully an automated interoperable system will emerge. I am very interested in collaborating with OLE and in making materials accessible to schools without internet access. Please talk more about how your system supports these environments. I have not yet reached out to the Curriki people to try to create a partnership. Are you in communication with them? From what I understand of the OLE system, is that they will be doing something similar to both schools.s.o, and li-f-e.org, which is creating a library of moodle courses, the biggest challenge of which becomees, how to do this is in an easily undertandable format annd categoristaion of the so colled ' library of courses' This if of course the tip of the iceberg, and would be using about 5% of what moodle can do, but the transportability is key here. As ,mentioned, its easy enough to export a scorm elemnt, and then upload to something like curriki. Doing it the other way round looses all the funtinoality of Moodle itself to tailor and customise courses, as they are important as objects rather than real Moodle courses. Moodle advocates. I am a big Moodle fan. But I don't think its our right now solution for the work we are talking about doing. 1. Our target, elementary school teachers are not currently using either Moodle or Sugar, adding both at once makes the learning curve even harder. Remember that if u intend to use the XS server, moodle is actually integrated into Sugar, ie... its a part of the Sugar experience. 1. We are focusing on lesson plans in the 1 hour and even 20-minute groupwork time frames. Moodle is more focused on longer time frames. You can make a moodle course last 5 mintues - 50 hours if u like, its al about how u set it up. 1. We are focusing on what the teacher will do and what the class will do both online and offline during the lesson as well as learning goals, standards, help for the teacher in differentiating the lesson etc. Think the teachers guide for the text book. Moodle is more focused on what the student is doing online. Its not a very natural fit. Quite the opposite... Moodle is focued on making it easier to contol and offer in an easy leeson plan format what the students can do/ wth the added benefit of being able to grade all the courses. 1. Moodle has tremendous promise in terms of reducing teacher workload. Here is an example of what I hope that in the future Moodle will be able to: 1. Provide a link that students click and they open a Write document that is a template/scaffolding for a specific assignment, say writing a scientific argument. 2. When the document is saved it is automatically turned
Re: [IAEP] Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki?
Actually, points 4.1 and 4.2 have been integrated into moodle for quite a while now. Perhaps its the flexibility which is making these possibilities hidden, that and their particular use of wording. Unfortunately, people tend to not use the full capaccity of its uses until they completly understand what they are doing, as moodle gives an almost infinte amount of ways to manipulate data. As Martin Langhoff has pointed out on numerous accassions, we need to drop funcinality until the User interface is easily understnadble by all, something he has gracefully offered to do over the next couple of moths, So, with a customised, simplifie versin of moodle and what it does (course management, which to me is very much linked with creating and presenting lesson plans is perfect for the job. I am of course interesting in what the lesson plan/ course will loook like if it is not based on the moodle infraastricture. What is absolutely needed is some extra volunteering ti totally simplify the UI, something that might take a while but was already started by Martin and co. n On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.comwrote: Hi Chris, I think the right answer is to put our materials on both your system and Curriki for now and hopefully an automated interoperable system will emerge. I am very interested in collaborating with OLE and in making materials accessible to schools without internet access. Please talk more about how your system supports these environments. I have not yet reached out to the Curriki people to try to create a partnership. Are you in communication with them? From what I understand of the OLE system, is that they will be doing something similar to both schools.s.o, and li-f-e.org, which is creating a library of moodle courses, the biggest challenge of which becomees, how to do this is in an easily undertandable format annd categoristaion of the so colled ' library of courses' This if of course the tip of the iceberg, and would be using about 5% of what moodle can do, but the transportability is key here. As ,mentioned, its easy enough to export a scorm elemnt, and then upload to something like curriki. Doing it the other way round looses all the funtinoality of Moodle itself to tailor and customise courses, as they are important as objects rather than real Moodle courses. Moodle advocates. I am a big Moodle fan. But I don't think its our right now solution for the work we are talking about doing. 1. Our target, elementary school teachers are not currently using either Moodle or Sugar, adding both at once makes the learning curve even harder. Remember that if u intend to use the XS server, moodle is actually integrated into Sugar, ie... its a part of the Sugar experience. 1. We are focusing on lesson plans in the 1 hour and even 20-minute groupwork time frames. Moodle is more focused on longer time frames. You can make a moodle course last 5 mintues - 50 hours if u like, its al about how u set it up. 1. We are focusing on what the teacher will do and what the class will do both online and offline during the lesson as well as learning goals, standards, help for the teacher in differentiating the lesson etc. Think the teachers guide for the text book. Moodle is more focused on what the student is doing online. Its not a very natural fit. Quite the opposite... Moodle is focued on making it easier to contol and offer in an easy leeson plan format what the students can do/ wth the added benefit of being able to grade all the courses. 1. Moodle has tremendous promise in terms of reducing teacher workload. Here is an example of what I hope that in the future Moodle will be able to: 1. Provide a link that students click and they open a Write document that is a template/scaffolding for a specific assignment, say writing a scientific argument. 2. When the document is saved it is automatically turned in as Homework in Moodle allowing the teacher to review and comment on the document from anywhere, even on days when the class does not see the science teacher The reason I pointed out the comment above 1. . however, these features aren't there yet. Once they are there will be a large payoff for teachers to learn Moodle. However, I still see Moodle as just one format teachers will use. Other lessons and other teachers and other contexts may still want to print out a pdf. Other times a teacher may just be browsing for a sample lesson to be used as inspiration to create a quite different lesson. Actully, these features are there, as I have used them extensively in my own moodle coruses driven by student input. Sorry for attacking, if it seemed that way, but it really does seem like people haven't studied themultitude of options that Moodle offers. kind Regard, David Van Assche Thanks, Caroline On Thu, Sep 10, 2009
Re: [IAEP] Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki?
Well, this is really what moodle was created for. Especially considering its the main tool used in all XS server implmentations and is in use in at least 40% of British schools. I'm not sure about the American numbers, but pretty sure it must be highly used there too. Creating courses in moodle is not only easy, but extremely powerful, and can be easily shared with other teachers. There are existing general moodle implementations, though none have enough content, including the sugarlabs one (schools.sugarlabs.org) I'm focusing my own efforts on linux-for-education.org, where little by little we're growing the site. The latter has 5 sugar based courses I created and several ubuntu and opensuse courses. Apart from the courses, the glossaries and database modules link straight into the course content, allowing students to easily look up terms used in courses that might be confusing. kind regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Bryan Berry br...@olenepal.org wrote: From: Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com Subject: [IAEP] Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki? To: iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, Kellie Doty kmd...@mail.harvard.edu Message-ID: b74fba2b0909091618s103ddaa0oe4e2767f2aa02...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I'd like to introduce Kellie Doty, she is a fellow student in the Technology, Education and Innovation program at Harvard Grad School for Education and she is in Intern at Sugar Labs this fall working on the GPA project. Kellyie's role will be to help us develop curriculum, test it at GPA and publish it in a format that will be easy to adopt by other teachers. One of her first tasks will be to take the lessons we did over the summer and try to write them up. One question is where should we put lesson plans? My first thought was wiki.sugarlabs.org our wonderful maze of twisty pages all different. But Kellie pointed out that teachers need to be able to find things through various paths such as subject, grade level and activities used. My second thought was Moodle as it probably has a module for that. +1 for curriki. It has an existing community of teachers to work w/ and it is a good tool, geared to their needs -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Ted Turner http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html - Sports is like a war without the killing. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki?
curriki != moodle courses, format is quite different. So unless you create seperate instances of the courses one will have to choose either curriki format or moodle format. kind regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 09:32, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Well, this is really what moodle was created for. Especially considering its the main tool used in all XS server implmentations and is in use in at least 40% of British schools. I'm not sure about the American numbers, but pretty sure it must be highly used there too. Creating courses in moodle is not only easy, but extremely powerful, and can be easily shared with other teachers. There are existing general moodle implementations, though none have enough content, including the sugarlabs one (schools.sugarlabs.org) I'm focusing my own efforts on linux-for-education.org, where little by little we're growing the site. The latter has 5 sugar based courses I created and several ubuntu and opensuse courses. Apart from the courses, the glossaries and database modules link straight into the course content, allowing students to easily look up terms used in courses that might be confusing. But I guess you can deploy Curriki content in Moodle instances? I think the main point of Curriki is working together with an existing community, not so much about what is used to deploy the content. Regards, Tomeu kind regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Bryan Berry br...@olenepal.org wrote: From: Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com Subject: [IAEP] Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki? To: iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, Kellie Doty kmd...@mail.harvard.edu Message-ID: b74fba2b0909091618s103ddaa0oe4e2767f2aa02...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I'd like to introduce Kellie Doty, she is a fellow student in the Technology, Education and Innovation program at Harvard Grad School for Education and she is in Intern at Sugar Labs this fall working on the GPA project. Kellyie's role will be to help us develop curriculum, test it at GPA and publish it in a format that will be easy to adopt by other teachers. One of her first tasks will be to take the lessons we did over the summer and try to write them up. One question is where should we put lesson plans? My first thought was wiki.sugarlabs.org our wonderful maze of twisty pages all different. But Kellie pointed out that teachers need to be able to find things through various paths such as subject, grade level and activities used. My second thought was Moodle as it probably has a module for that. +1 for curriki. It has an existing community of teachers to work w/ and it is a good tool, geared to their needs -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Ted Turner - Sports is like a war without the killing. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning -- Marie von Ebner-Eschenbachhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html - Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Where should we put Lesson Plans? Currwiki?
Seeing as there is a screencast on how to move curriki objects into Moodle, its clear the content is not the same, and there is no simple way to export a course from one to the other. Well, its gonna be easier from Moodle to curriki than the other way round, seeing as curriki is a collection of elements in multiple formats. I see it more as a place to collect your ideas which you can later implement in a real Course management/lesson plan builder like Moodle. That said, you are doubling the workload if you decide to use curriki too. In order to export items, the screencast says u need to hit the print button in curriki (hmm, not export, but print) and then take the url and use that as an object in a Moodle course. I'm sure you can see the limitations, as that makes it non portable (you have to be connected to the internet), and url based only (objects in moodle are generally of many kinds, including, audio, video, web page, texts, spreadsheets and flash elements.) Though I'm sure there are other ways to get the data out of curriki, its another step between getting the course material from one's head to a usable format that teachers everywhere can get at. That said, if I were building a Moodle course, and wanted to put in materials of my own, I might use curriki to search for that content. kind regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Dennis Daniels dennisgdani...@gmail.comwrote: Wikis, by their nature, don't lend well to formal organization. In order to get content into Moodle there are conventions and forms. I for one agree with David that Moodle makes a lot more sense than a wiki. Dennis ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Jonathan Swifthttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html - May you live every day of your life. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] SoaS as a Sugar Labs project.
Hmmm, maybe I'm missing something, but isn't the idea of creating subprojects and projects an organisational thing that benefits everyone? I don't really see it being too beaurocratic unless it starts to become about tedious definitions. But if we are just saying, SoaS, Karma, and say Physics are all to become subprojects for organisational reasons... that seems fine, and might attract the doers as they will know what exactly is being worked on from a big picture perspective. I can imagine using subdomains for this stuff like: karma.sugarlabs.org or soas.sugarlabs.org These quicklinks could be great entry paths for eager devs or eager users. my 2 cents... David Van Assche On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 2:00 AM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote: On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 20:58, Martin Langhoffmartin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:22 PM, David Farningdfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Eclipse and Apache both have criteria for becoming a official Note that Apache's reason to run this Apache Projects is to _extend the legal protection shield to other projects_. If doesn't care one zot about what the resulting software _does_. And they only looked into that once they had their main mission (the webserver) pretty much cooked. I've advised several projects that wanted to do like apache, and once they understood what apache does, they did not want to do like apache no more :-) And also... and completely from the outside... I'll apologise in advance for saying something I know might be controversial. I worry that SL seems to have -- for a external party like me -- more bureaucracy than it has people doing. IMHExperience, the projects I enjoy working on, and that I see being productive have a much lower procedure/label/committe : contributor ratio. Boards, subprojects and such are good things to remember to do when a project gets big and tensions surface (aside from some specific things you want right from the start -- license, etc). This comment is not meant as a trolling attempt (though I fear it'll end up in tears). The core of what I am trying to say is: doing these things too early has some risks -- just off the top of my head - The FOSS version of being top-heavy, the distraction - Newcomers reading all these big names (board, procedures, the board blessing the SIG) and getting the wrong idea about the project -- this can discourage the go-getters that like get-it-done environments. - Fostering armchair quarterbackers (like yours truly right now :-/ ) and endless bickering (hmm! debian-legal) -- these are attracted to big name and big infra projects. I really like GregDek's line: I would avoid elections for as long as possible. Vote with your work. Time for me to shut up. From now on I assume you know about these risks, and won't mention the topic in polite company no more. After all, I am not working my ass off on SL, you are. Thanks for your patience :-) I think your concerns are reasonable, but as long as we keep being an organization where people who want to do things are enabled to get them done, I don't think we are in such a bad position. If it comes the day when talkers remove power from doers, we'll need to worry about what you warn, but fortunately I don't see that coming any time soon. FWIW, I do realize that for better or worse I am the biggest bureaucrat in the project. That is why I am not running for the oversight board this year. The control _should_ be in the hands of the doers; the deployers, translators, designers, developers If we continue to do our jobs correctly, this time next year the number of teachers, and content authors will start to outweigh the designers and developers. I see these discussions about what you call bureaucracy as actually fostering the doers, by giving their area of interest a concrete visibility and telling them to chose their tools, procedures and identity so they can better do their thing. This is the goal. But as Martin correctly points out, policies and rules come at a non-zero price, thus we must be careful that the benefits outweigh the costs. Why now? Usually I harp on focus and deliverable. But, just this once:) I urge you to take a break and unfocus. The current growth trajectory for Sugar Labs is pretty humbling. david ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Samuel Goldwynhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html - I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
Ok, I think what's happening here is a breakdown in communication. When I used the term obvious, I was talking about Christoph's email... I was stating that perhaps the message, as I understood it, was that we need more data from the field... and that _the message_ was not obvious enough in the email. I never meant that the feedback was not obvious enough... or that developers were not doing enough to keep us informed. I really hope this makes sense. I'm a little concerned that I have to be so careful about wording. I sort of get the feeling that should one make any type of constructive criticism, this is immediately construed as a threat, and the person writing the criticism is forced to walk on egg shells. I understand that talking about what can be done better, or what should have been done that wasnt, etc causes very emotional responses because of the time people have given to the project, but should we really just shut up about this stuff? Or is there value to hearing people's opinions on how things could be improved? And on that note, I'd like to hear how I can improve gathering feedback for our Autonomous region, based on methods currently in place elsewhere. What I'm asking for is links to documentation that show how this has been done till now in South America, Nepal and Asia, Africa, Europe. I've looked around, but there is not too much information on the web. My idea is to try and automate this as much as possible by creating a set of scripts, or plugins that can measure stats and then send these (probably via xmpp) Someone mentioned munin, but this doesn't really give user statistics much though... its more of a network tool for servers for measuring performance, resource usage, and graphing these. What I am talking about is digitising the current manual feedback that is happening elsewhere (how many users running which apps, lesson plans being used, languages, how many computers requiring repairs, general problems people are running into, and generally people's feelings on sugar usage, maybe even surveys) kind regards, David Van Assche On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was we need more data from the field Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough. Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback. Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it! Regards, Tomeu I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make sense? Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing it? regards, David On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a larger scale in the third world. Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all? And its important to acknowledge the differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. And isn't this stating the obvious? I think what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale, and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that feedback. You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback. It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think we don't want to know about them. Frustratedly yours, Tomeu kind Regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph Derndorfere0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Sean DALY schrieb: IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Competitive landscape: Intel Classmate executive blog post re updated software
This actually looks like a commercial ripoff of iTalc, an opensource app that does exactly what synchronous Eyes does: http://italc.sourceforge.net/ On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Christoph Derndorfer e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Thanks for the link, definitely an interesting article! Some of the features provided by that SMART Classroom Suite ( http://www2.smarttech.com/st/en-US/Products/SynchronEyes+Classroom+Management+Software/ ) would also be very useful additions for Sugar... Cheers, Christoph Sean DALY schrieb: http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2009/08/classmate_pc_as_a_one-to-one_l.php * touchscreen for kids * customized Easybits desktop (Inspirus, removes distractions) * Anmeg Parent Carefree, shuts down Classmate if rules transgressed * theft deterrent * system snapshot manager * ArtRage drawing tool * EverNote for note-taking ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Ogden Nash http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html - The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up, it's always a cat. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a larger scale in the third world. And its important to acknowledge the differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. I think what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale, and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. kind Regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph Derndorfere0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Sean DALY schrieb: IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the effort, in particular for revealing blockers. I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews. In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger scaled, less controlled environments. Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as lessons have been learned. And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard. Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the project. david Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I could go on...). Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes, projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be able to learn many things from the GPA pilot. But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much more likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston, London or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those places that have a profile similar to GPA [1]. Just my 2 Nepali Rupees, Christoph [1] The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community school within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to educate the minds and develop the characters of all students in partnership with families and community. To achieve this GPA provides high quality teaching along with a range of social, emotional and enrichment programs delivered by means of partnerships with an array of community organizations and individuals. Over the past twelve years, GPA has developed strong associations with four universities, several health and mental health agencies, the YMCA, and various organizations teaching visual and performing arts. As one of just 20 pilot schools in the BPS, GPA is exempt from district mandates. Therefore, GPA has autonomy in the areas of budget and personnel, along with the freedom to implement innovative curricula, assessments, and interventions. ( http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Gardner_Pilot_Academy) -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP
Re: [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was we need more data from the field I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make sense? Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing it? regards, David On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a larger scale in the third world. Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all? And its important to acknowledge the differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. And isn't this stating the obvious? I think what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale, and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa. I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that feedback. You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback. It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think we don't want to know about them. Frustratedly yours, Tomeu kind Regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph Derndorfere0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Sean DALY schrieb: IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the effort, in particular for revealing blockers. I'm not sure I really agree with this statement... Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews. In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger scaled, less controlled environments. Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as lessons have been learned. And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard. Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the project. david Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25 installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I could go on...). Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes, projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be able to learn many things from the GPA pilot. But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)
From my end, I can offer extensive feedback on Sugar usage in Andalucian schools, when we ship our next release in September. As this is a pretty controlled environment, we should be able to get some automated statistics. I'd love to hear some ideas on this. What could we install on the client sugar sessions to track things... perhaps, programs being used, length of time used, internet connectivity or not, etc. What I'm saying is, we could build some kind of statistic tracking into the computers as long as its not efficiency damaging or privacy violating... kind regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:17 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing it? We all seem to agree that feedback is important. We mostly agree that there is value in feedback from all deployments, big and small. We are currently getting valuable feedback from the field: Sur, the Ceibal blogs, reports from Nepal, Greg's reports from GPA, et al. We need more feedback and therefore we are exploring additional means of getting it. You ideas are welcome! -walter [snip] -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Pablo Picassohttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html - Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar packaging in Squeeze, Karmic
For Guadalinex-edu, we are taking jhconvert packages as a base, under Karmic. These are the most up to date and probably most tested packages currently available for Ubuntu (courtesy of Aleksey) It would make sense to bundle these with edubuntu too, at least until the debian packages are completely up to date. kind Regards, David Van Assche On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 04:58:42PM +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: Sorry for not including this list in the Cc list right away. I was unaware of its existence. No problem. Even if not that loud on the radar, the OLPC team at Alioth has been the main point of Debian-base Sugar packaging coordination since long before I became active, however, so I feel it makes great sense to keep in the loop :-) Up to date .deb packages of Sugar 0.84.6 appear to be available in both Sid and Squeeze, courtesy of Jonas: http://packages.debian.org/sid/sugar-0.84 (see at the botton for a full list of packages in Debian) Please beware that sugar-0.84 only reflect that single piece of the larger puzzle: Still not all of Sucrose is packaged officially for Debian. Karmic has already picked these up: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar-0.84 Great to see that Debian packages are usable for others too! 1) Is anyone routinely testing Sugar in Debian? Not that I know of. If anyone does this is most welcome to post their experiences, good or bad, to the Debian OLPC mailinglist: debian-olpc-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org Also less systematic (i.e. not exactly routinely) testing is valuable to get feedback on. 3) Who is tracking the current status, setting a roadmap and handling bug reports? The Debian BTS is used to track bugs against the packages maintained by the Alioth OLPC team - a list of all open bugs are here: http://bugs.debian.org/debian-olpc-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org Since I am the only one contributing so far (which is arguably tied to my choice of packaging style), the roadmap is whatever I like it to be. Others are most welcome to try convince me to steer in a particular direction, and even more welcome to contribute in getting there. :-) Current status is best viewed here: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=debian-olpc-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org What cannot be seen from above overview is that recent packaging of several branches of upstream code (so far only sugar-toolkit-0.84 and sugar-toolkit-0.86) is not done independently but using multiple branches of same Git, tracking each commits from each related upstream branches. Downstream distributors need not care about this, but those wanting to contribute may benefit from being able to track both upstream and packaging changes this fine-grained. 4) Would someone be interested in pushing this work downstream to Skolelinux and FUSS? The full list of Sugar related packages in Debian is quite impressive: python-sugar python-sugar-toolkit sugar sugar-artwork sugar-presence-service Above will be dropped: 0.82 code conflicing with versioned packages python2.5-sugar python2.5-sugar-0.84 python2.5-sugar-toolkit python2.5-sugar-toolkit-0.84 python2.5-sugar-toolkit-0.86 python2.6-sugar python2.6-sugar-0.84 python2.6-sugar-toolkit python2.6-sugar-toolkit-0.84 python2.6-sugar-toolkit-0.86 Ignore above ones: they are just virtual packages python-sugar-0.84 python-sugar-toolkit-0.84 python-sugar-toolkit-0.86 sugar-0.84 sugar-artwork-0.84 sugar-calculate-activity sugar-chat-activity sugar-connect-activity sugar-journal-activity sugar-memorize-activity sugar-pippy-activity sugar-presence-service-0.84 sugar-sharedstate-classes sugar-sharingtest-activity sugar-web-activity Yes, above (and a few more) are all officially in Debian, and are all maintained by the Alioth OLPC team - but not all of them are up-to-date. sugar-activities sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-jigsawpuzzle-activity sugar-logviewer-activity sugar-pollbuilder-activity sugar-read-activity sugar-sliderpuzzle-activity sugar-terminal-activity sugar-turtleart-activity Above are not in Debian. How did you compile your list? Let me repeat: Most accurate view on the packaging efforts done by the OLPC Alioth team is from here: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=debian-olpc-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org Kind regards, and thanks for your interest in our FLOSS contributions, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJKgvNxAAoJECx8MUbBoAEhrIcP/i1BZNM1lv9Jl6XuBx6wdyw1 MdNg4+dUfYaZpzNBZdTeliff8A/vUxLAZNXwV9jdqT+QVHDgUUYKJ6il+Ld6WtgM SuTGKrjKhRx6uc9op/bCfmHF7B/YuDz3MdNRtkNRUuqflBVilmvRcwjzuHttglKm OFHLJMijZD/VoNR/w3
[IAEP] article about Sugar in Wired magazine
http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/08/inventing-a-new-paradigm-sugarlabs-and-the-sugar-ui/ enjoy David Van Assche -- Charles de Gaullehttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html - The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] segregated activities from the sugar platform
I'm wondering if there isn't a way to include a dialogue that allows a user to share activities to other xmpp users that are listed in a listbox... Without collaboration there isn't much point in running activities outside of sugar. kind regards, David Van Assche On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Sayamindu Dasguptasayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 14:42, Walter Benderwalter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: ..snip snip I had set up Turtle Art to be able to run outside of Sugar. It has a .desktop file and should install under the Applications/Education menu on the desktop. Or run it from the shell from turlteart.py. It has its problems: no access to the toolbar and no access to the journal or sharing. But it runs. We have quite a bit of work until we can get it to work, but it's doable to have everything working out of the Sugar shell. Attached is a written in half an hour python script, which runs most of the activities installed in my system (not the jhbuild ones - but the ones installed via yum groupinstall sugar-desktop) It has probably got the highest possible number of bug per line, and does no error checking of each kind, but it's a start. I don't know when I'll be able to put more effort into this - but if anyone else is interested, please feel free to go ahead. Run it in the form of run_activities_in_desktop.py Jukebox /home/sayamindu/abc.ogg (note that Jukebox is case sensitive) There is no way to view the neighbourhood, and there is no way to see the journal, and for all I know, the journal service does not run in the background as well - so objectchooser won't work. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Stephen Leacock - I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I shall some day die, which is not so. - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] (engineering) capacity building
One thing that comes to mind here is to guerilla market in irc channels... usually these are already full of developers and its just a matter of looking at the projects around, going to their respective channels, and let them briefly know wht sugar is and ask if they have time to spend on any other projects... still a long shot, but much more direct... David On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Hi all, has been suggested that maybe we should code less and instead invest more time mentoring newcomers. Though this is something very sensible to suggest and a good recommendation in most occasions, I'm afraid is not what Sugar Labs needs now. I say this after more than two years welcoming developers that were attracted by the OLPC mission but that never had contact with FOSS development before: has resulted in a few very big successes but far less than expected. My suggestions are: == Send our message to channels that reach already activated people == By already activated meaning people who are already FOSS contributors or volunteers in grassroots organizations. If we grow our community of these people, we may reach a position where we can fruitfully introduce random people and help them contribute successfully. Right now we are getting ourselves known in the general public (kudos to Sean), but this is a very inefficient way of increasing our contributors base. Nor the message is appropriate for FOSS developers nor we use channels that specifically reach them. Concrete actions: publish articles in the Ubuntu, Fedora, GNOME, Mandriva, etc planets and in specialized outlets like LWN, GNOME Journal, Ars Technica, etc. making very clear our non-profit nature, governance model, educational impact, relationships to other FOSS projects, etc. == Understand better how current contributors got to contribute == We have this knowledge in some of our heads, but aren't putting it in common nor profiting from it. How did you got to know about Sugar? Why did you establish contact with the Sugar community? Which was your first contribution? Why did you kept contributing? What are your suggestions for improving? Etc. Concrete action: publish interviews to existing members with similar questions and debate how we can improve the volunteering experience. Regards, Tomeu ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Milton Berle - If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/milton_berle.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] View Slides an alternative to PowerPoint?
A real simple alternative to powerpoint/impress that looks and smells like it, but with maybe really limited functionality would be loved by teachers everywhere, At least, all the teachers I have met rely very heavily on powerpoint in one form or another, be it integrated into other software like moodle or an LMS, or used with an interactive whiteboard/touchpad soft, or just used by itself. But normally it is used in a very limited fashion, and without much of the fancy transitions/coloring/themeing/graphing and all that stuff... IF they want something like that, it would make sense to steer them to turtleart... but there needs to be something much much simpler... David On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Walter Benderwalter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: And we also have Turtle Art as a presentation option (it can keep to a prearranged order :) -walter On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:04 PM, James Simmonsjim.simm...@walgreens.com wrote: I deleted the digest that contained someone asking about putting Open Office on an XO to get alternatives to Excel and PowerPoint, but I'd like to suggest that with the features I added to View Slides over the weekend you *could* use View Slides to create and view presentations. What you could do is create individual slides using the Record Activity or one of the Paint Activities. These would create separate image files in the Journal. Then you'd fire up View Slides to add these images to a slide show, arranging them in sequence by renaming the images in the show, and deleting images that aren't needed. Then View Slides could be used to view the presentation. You can even hide the mouse cursor and view the images full screen. It isn't Power Point, but on the other hand, it isn't Power Point. The pictures at http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4039 tell the story. Unfortunately they tell the story out of sequence. There doesn't seem to be any way to arrange the pictures in order. James Simmons ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] segregated activities from the sugar platform
Hi there, This may seem like a bit of a premature email, but it comes in reference to questions I was asked at the guadalinex offices about adding Sugar to their distribution. They mentioned there is a lot of freedom as to what content and activitities/applications can be put into the distro, but not so much freedom when it comes to marketing, naming, base foundations, etc. Thats a shame because the name guadalinex really sucks :p but its great because they are genuinenly interested in running sugar activities in guadalinex. I explained that with the move to metacity this would be a possibility in the not too distant future (I hope I did not speak out of tone.) There is also the very strong likeleyhood that they would use LTSP and iTalc as a method of distribution and control. The team I saw was MUCH bigger than I expected (a good 300 people working behind computers) and the interview process was highly formal, modern and professional. It even included a type of psych evaluation, although many of the questions were related to my experience in the field (logical) and what kind of tech we should be iImplementing today, so that in 5 years time we would be in the right playing field. They asked where I saw the distro and linux for education being in 5 years, which is an amazingly difficult question to answer. In fact, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on that one... They also wondered how it was possible that I would take such a job for so little money, so I guess its not totally obvious to many people that tech in education is actually a lot of fun and worth being paid less for, than doing some boring sysadmin job that really does nothing more than fill the pockets of the company being worked for. Anyway, I really hope I get a positive answer soon, and when I do, the job they want me to take there is a kind of linux ambassador... that is to say, someone who connects up with the necesary folk and finds out whats happening and whats worth implementing in the land of education and linux... One thing is relatively sure... Sugar will be running on these roughly 1 million computers in one form or another.,.,., So the playing field just got a whole lot bigger... in fact, it would mean the xo would suddenly be a minority... lol For general information, though this is not very known, in sheer numbers, they are the biggest edu linux initiative in the world, and have been around for 6 years now. They seem to have bypassed many hurdles other such initiatives had and they say their schools are generally very happy. But, like all projects, they lack content... kind regards, David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] LinuxTag
Please leave me your number, as I'll be in Berlin tomorrow morning... David Van Assche P.S. same to u Simon... On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: On 06/21/2009 06:34 PM, Tony Anderson wrote: Hi, I am in Berlin and will be through June 28. I plan to attend LinuxTag. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. Yours, Tony Hi Tony, that is awesome. Best is to get your name on: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Events/LinuxTag2009 Help at the booth would be welcome for example: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Events/LinuxTag2009#Sugar_Booth Thanks, Simon ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
Sean and others can we please try and use the term SoaS slighlty more agnostically. Right now, every time its mentioned it always uses the Fedora backend without question or debate. I think of it a little like when someone says write me an office letter (and its quitely assumed by everyonen that they will be using Microsoft word for this) I spoke briefly to Sebastian about this and we suggestd, quite entertainingly: FedSoaS or SoaSora SuSoaS or SoaSuse GenSoaS or SoaS(t)oo DebSoaS or SoaSian ManSoaS or SoaSiva CaSoaS or SoaSica For me, I kind of like the last column Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough people willing to help for the different distros , and the more markets the better right? On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: We've discussed my idea to do a flurry of press releases over the next couple of weeks, coinciding with our presence/sessions at: * LinuxTag Berlin June 24-27 http://www.linuxtag.org/2009/en.html * Free Open Source Software in Education (FOSSED) Bethel, Maine June 24-26 http://www.fossed.com * National Educational Computing Conference (NECC) Washington, DC June 28-July 1 http://center.uoregon.edu/ISTE/NECC2009 (also EduBloggerCon / Classroom 2.0 LIVE in DC on June 27: http://www.edubloggercon.com/EduBloggerCon+2009) * Gran Canaria Desktop Summit (GUADEC+Akademy) Canary Islands July 3-July 11 http://www.grancanariadesktopsummit.org/ After mulling it over I feel our interests will be best served by two press releases (eReleases/PR Newswire + Sugar Labs press page + targeted mailing to journalists educators), with an option for a third at GUADEC if there are new developments (very possible over next 10 days): Wednesday, June 24th, datelined LinuxTag: SoaS v1 Strawberry release! Gould grant / GPA pilot - classroom tests of SoaS 100 GCompris/ASLO - offer enriched XO-1.5 refresh/XO SoaS version - not forgetting the XO installed base Local Labs - Colombia, Washington DC, Rochester? Dailymotion channel - info source Image: SoaS beauty shots * Monday, June 29th: NECC (Washington DC) Nexcopy partnership Image: TBD I feel the richness of our news on the day both LinuxTag and FOSSED open will increase our chances for wide coverage. I think back-to-back releases won't work for our targeted mailing list and including two releases in one mailing would be clumsy. This will also simplify printing for handouts. The Nexcopy partnership has a different angle and call to action (collect recycle sticks / gesture for schools) and merits a separate treatment. The deadline for the Wednesday SoaS release is in 24 hours... I will put up a draft for the marketing list in a few hours. I will attend LinuxTag on June 26-27 and SugarCamp/FUDCon June 28th. If I've forgotten anything, if anyone has better ideas, please by all means let me know thanks! Sean ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
sorry ended up going to Sean only... -- Forwarded message -- From: David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC) To: Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian, or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what it is... David On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other distros? Sean On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Bert Freudenbergb...@freudenbergs.de wrote: (excluding IAEP from cc list) On 18.06.2009, at 19:45, David Van Assche wrote: Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... Err, SoaS *is* a distro. It currently is based on Fedora, it might get based on something else in the unforeseeable future, but having a gazillion SoaSes isn't plan of anything I heard. there are enough people willing to help for the different distros , and the more markets the better right? Yes, definitely, Sugar needs to be integrated well in many different distros. But that's independed of the SoaS effort. - Bert - ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
Well, that ship sailed quite a while ago. I find it hard to believe that you missed the significant publicity surrounding Sugar being available on openSUSE in ALL formats (cd/dvd/usb/vm appliance) as I've been touting that for at least 2 months now. In fact the collaboration sessions that have been advertised various times quite explicitly talk about the opensuse variant, which contains a large set of honey apps (thats what makes it different from Fedora SoaS) To me, saying stick = Fedora, is like saying Sugar is based solely on Fedora... which is just totally silly and very harmful for the distribution of it. Fedora is a very small community in comparison to the debian based world (which is approximately 60% of the market) then we also have Mandriva and openSUSE who take another good 25%+ of the market, conservatively. That leaves Fedora + derivatives with 15% of the market... (based on distrowatch figures) thats highly undemocratic to steal the term SoaS to just refer to Fedora (especially since the term actually came from someone who stuck Sugar on usb via Ubuntu) I can dig up the references for you guys if you like. How can Sugar on a Stick (not the term Fedora quite obviously missing from it) be Fedora centric? This smells to me like saying Office = microsoft... it smells very bad... which is why I'm raising my concerns over it somewhat... David On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Bert Freudenbergb...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote: Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian, or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what it is... You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a USB flash drive. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other distros? No, there are no such plans currently. IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
right, otherwise, imagine I call the openSUSE cd version SoaC, Sugar on a CD or even SoaVM Sugar on a Virtual Machine am I the only one who see the broken logic here? David Van assche On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: This is just a naming problem. Sugar on a Stick is a generic descriptive phrase that has been repurposed as a proper noun. This inevitably leads to confusion, because the two meanings do not agree. I encourage the developers of the Fedora-derived image to adopt a new name, to solve this problem. For the new name, I recommend Sugar Labs Lollipop. --Ben ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] linux for education portal
And I forgot the actual address of the site of course: www.linux-for-education.org On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:42 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there, We've just launched a pretty decent start for a linux for education portal that should contain hundreds (we already have about 50) totally creative commons or similar free license courses that can be used online directly (guest access to all courses) or downloaded to export into one's own e-learning platform (backups are moodle based.) The site contains howtos, forums, wikipedias and chatrooms, as well as the traditional Moodle courses on a wide array of subjects across the board. It is totally free, and will remain that way both in terms of beer and ideology. We encourage people to take part in it. It is really not too hard to take an existing howto or wiki entry or something and turn it into an interactive course. There are plenty of examples, and there are also courses on Moodle itself and why one should use it. Currently it may seem quite opensuse-centric, but we are working hard to make it as generic to linux as possible as we have noticed that there isn't really such a comprehensive resource out there on this subject matter. We appreciate all help, so please drop us a line if you would like to get involved in any way at all. peace, David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)
Well, I'm not going to get dug deeper into a semantic discussion here. My only point, and I think its quite clear to most people is that the use of the words sugar on a stick are not solely the property of one distribution (fedora) and ought not to be coupled with just one distribution. It should (and this has nothing to do with word policing of any kind, as funny as that remark might be) describe the medium by which sugar is delivered (a usb stick) Nowhere is there any mention of something distro specific, nor should there be. The term itself is great to describe what it is... and other distribution packagers are bound to use the same terms, since it quite rightly describes the end product. Just as Sugar on a CD describes very well that product. Like someone else suggested, if one chooses to brand sugar on a stick for Fedora, they can come up with a mirriad of names, lollypop being one of them... I am actually quite surprised that this discussion is coming up on a mailing list that is very open source based. Taking ownership of a very generic term goes against the philosophy/politics of open source in general. Reminds me of the bbc's patent on urls... they were the first to use the term click on a link (and patenteted it) Regards, David Van Assche -- rest snipped for brevity -- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
ok, This is becoming silly... Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a non-sensical flame war. David Van Assche On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zakijzgr...@sugarlabs.org wrote: +1 Bert and others my2cents Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of other examples, such as French left wing political parties. I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora, and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that. If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less resources on actual sugar development. Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious. James /my2cents Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200 From: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC) To: Sugar-dev Devel sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Cc: Marketing market...@lists.sugarlabs.org , IAEP List iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: 4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote: Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian, or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what it is... You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a USB flash drive. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other distros? No, there are no such plans currently. IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
Sean... u stated it very correctly. Lets leave whats under the hood, there where its supposed to be... we are driving a car, and whether thats a mercedes, bmw or ford really shouldnt matter as long as it drives now if u want specific items in your car or u want your car to drive in a particular style and speed, then have a look see what the different car brands do and how they differ but just cause u like car X, doesn't mean that is the only term used to describe what it is you are driving... Thats just one simple analogy, but its relevant to just about anything SoaS = Sugar on a Stick is a generic term that doesn't in any way hint at what distro its aimed for. Thats the reason why I suggested sub SoaS to define distros, like FedSoaS, but whatever... if SoaS is what most people want to brand the fedora SoaS product, go ahead... but it'll confuse people for sure.. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: ok, This is becoming silly... Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a non-sensical flame war. David Van Assche On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zakijzgr...@sugarlabs.org wrote: +1 Bert and others my2cents Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of other examples, such as French left wing political parties. I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora, and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that. If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less resources on actual sugar development. Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious. James /my2cents Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200 From: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC) To: Sugar-dev Devel sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Cc: Marketing market...@lists.sugarlabs.org , IAEP List iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: 4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote: Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian, or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what it is... You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a USB flash drive. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other distros? No, there are no such plans currently. IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
This has been the most sobering email yet... practical and logical... lets see if we can keep going in a constructive route like this kind regards, David On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Caroline Meekssolutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with much of what has been said. Sugar on a Stick should not be linked to any one distro. The way I look at it is there are currently potentially three ways a kid can get access to their Sugar. 1. One-to-One Laptops - Each kid gets a laptop. 2. Virtualization - When you are connected to the network you have access to your Sugar desktop. 3. Sugar on a Stick - The kid has a USB or SD Card and carries that around for use in different computers. None of these are inherently distro dependent and as the technology matures there are more and more choices for each. Note that the vision is Sugar on a Stick may reboot the computer and/or the same stick may run with a VM or LTSP. I thought we had decided to use Flavors? i.e. Sugar on a Stick Strawberry is our current release and it is based on Fedora 11. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:18 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Sean... u stated it very correctly. Lets leave whats under the hood, there where its supposed to be... we are driving a car, and whether thats a mercedes, bmw or ford really shouldnt matter as long as it drives now if u want specific items in your car or u want your car to drive in a particular style and speed, then have a look see what the different car brands do and how they differ but just cause u like car X, doesn't mean that is the only term used to describe what it is you are driving... Thats just one simple analogy, but its relevant to just about anything SoaS = Sugar on a Stick is a generic term that doesn't in any way hint at what distro its aimed for. Thats the reason why I suggested sub SoaS to define distros, like FedSoaS, but whatever... if SoaS is what most people want to brand the fedora SoaS product, go ahead... but it'll confuse people for sure.. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: ok, This is becoming silly... Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a non-sensical flame war. David Van Assche On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zakijzgr...@sugarlabs.org wrote: +1 Bert and others my2cents Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of other examples, such as French left wing political parties. I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora, and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that. If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less resources on actual sugar development. Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious. James /my2cents Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200 From: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC) To: Sugar-dev Devel sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Cc: Marketing market...@lists.sugarlabs.org , IAEP List iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: 4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote: Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian, or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what it is... You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a USB flash drive. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other distros? No, there are no such plans currently. IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de
[IAEP] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting, 17th June) reminder
Hi folks, This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we are having tomorrow, Wednesday 17th June at 19:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK) We will have a good 10+ people present, if last weeks numbers are anything to go by. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-) We will be testing the activities that come pre-installed on the openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) There will of course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) and a report like last week. We forsee this taking between 1 and 2 hours... Daveb will be doing all the server side monitoring, such as ejabberd load, etc. Last week's lag should now be fixed as he has added the shared roster, and enabled gadget. Here is the list of activities available on the opensuse sugar cd, although not all are collaboration capable. Make sure you have the activities you want to collaborate with installed if you plan to take part: sugar-finance etoys sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-freecell sugar-imageviewer sugar-implode sugar-infoslicer sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity sugar-joke-machine-activity sugar-jukebox sugar-labyrinth sugar-maze sugar-memorize sugar-moon sugar-paint-activity sugar-pippy sugar-playgo sugar-read sugar-readetexts-activity sugar-record sugar-slider-puzzle-activity sugar-speak sugar-storybuilder sugar-tamtam-common sugar-tamtam-edit sugar-tamtam-jam sugar-tamtam-mini sugar-tamtam-synthlab sugar-analyze sugar-turtleart sugar-typing-turtle sugar-viewslides sugar-write sugar-browse sugar-irc sugar-calculate sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail) sugar-cartoonbuilder sugar-clock sugar-colors sugar-connect sugar-drgeo-activity xoEditor sugar-evince sugar-fiftytwo sugar-chat sugar-terminal sugar-journal sugar-physics sugar-library sugar-poll sugar-tuxpaint kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Grassroots-l] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting) reminder
Hmm ok, I stand corrected :-) I'm wondering now where I got the 20:00 time from... David On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote: On 09.06.2009, at 16:16, David Van Assche wrote: Hi folks, This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we are having tomorrow, Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK) Yet again I have to point out you are talking about 19:00 UTC, which on June 10th is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=6day=10year=2009hour=19min=0sec=0p1=0 - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] some activities aren't in activities.sugarlabs.org
Yes, these activites were based on what comes preinstalled on the openSUSE sugar build... it may be that some of these activities are only available on the live cd/dvd/usb/vm kind regards, David Van Assche On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Pilar Saenz mapis...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Just a report... For install all callaboration test activities, i search them at activities.sugarlabs.org. I can't find sugar-tamtam-common sugar-write sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail) sugar-clock sugar-connect sugar-drgeo-activity sugar-evince sugar-fiftytwo sugar-journal sugar-physics sugar-library and i didn't see a sugar-browse version for 8.4 -- Pilar ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting) reminder
Hi folks, This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we are having tomorrow, Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK) We will have a good 5-10 people present, but more are welcome as we really want to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-) We will be testing the activities that come pre-installed on the openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1 and 2 hours... I need a volunteer that is shell savvy and can track cpu/ram usage on the server that is running ejabberd. It will be a good opportunity to see real life results within ejabberd, in terms of bandwidth usage, cpu usage, ram usage, etc. Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on whether/how we can make them collaborative: sugar-finance etoys sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-freecell sugar-imageviewer sugar-implode sugar-infoslicer sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity sugar-joke-machine-activity sugar-jukebox sugar-labyrinth sugar-maze sugar-memorize sugar-moon sugar-paint-activity sugar-pippy sugar-playgo sugar-read sugar-readetexts-activity sugar-record sugar-slider-puzzle-activity sugar-speak sugar-storybuilder sugar-tamtam-common sugar-tamtam-edit sugar-tamtam-jam sugar-tamtam-mini sugar-tamtam-synthlab sugar-analyze sugar-turtleart sugar-typing-turtle sugar-viewslides sugar-write sugar-browse sugar-irc sugar-calculate sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail) sugar-cartoonbuilder sugar-clock sugar-colors sugar-connect sugar-drgeo-activity xoEditor sugar-evince sugar-fiftytwo sugar-chat sugar-terminal sugar-journal sugar-physics sugar-library sugar-poll sugar-tuxpaint kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] personalisation and collaboration
Something has been in the back of my head for a while now, ever since I've seen the impressive capabilities of being able to share an activity with your neighbourhood. Being able to cooperatively use applications brings a new level of playability to it all, and it reminds me of when I first saw the ability for a computer game to be 'multi-player.'This gave it an extra dimension, and with it came the idea of awards for completing certain things, which would be displayed in your dashoard somewhere.The award system seems even more relevant for education than it did for games. We'v aleady mentioned the benefits of an award sysem so I'm not going to regugitate that, but what hasnt''t really been spoken about is, how and what kind of personal details should the journal store and share. I see this as a customisable option, something that can be as simple as only sharing first names, or sharing the name of your pet, your favorite colors and foods, the languages you speak. This detailed information about a person is extremely valuable to the underlying system, as it can potentially match people against each other. This would allow for some interesting possibilities when it comes to collaboration, such as the system suggesting users to challenge/collaborate with based on personal information. I thought about having a robot that lives on an irc channel capable of helping with the collaboration procedure, as well as listing achievements, giving data on which users want to collaborate, giving help on how collaboration works with particular activities, listing which servers have open collaboration, showing the most used/highest rated collaborating activities, etc. I havent thought about this too much in depth, but I know coding a bot is not too hard. I see it as an extension to the speak AI, and encouragement to join irc. We can even get the bot to accept uploads of raw learning materials categorised by subject, which can then be used by content creators. it itself could give out quizzes based on particular subjects, or interesting pieces of information/knowledge. It could be taught new information, by feeding it localised knowledge. It would be important to know where we set the limits to what it can do. Just some food for thought... David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Getting data about the upgrading older machines and SoaS responsiveness.
When it come to older pcs, it really makes sense to try and use LTSP. We have created a kiwi-ltsp usb stick for openSUSE, which gives a portable ltsp server wherever u plug it in. In most cases it would make sense for this to be the most powerful computer. It is as easy as installing the sugar and sugar activities meta packages on this usb image and the users on the ltsp network then have access to Sugar from any computer in the network, and they are bound to load faster than from a usb image. The advantage is u need one usb stick per network, as opposed to one for each terminal... that saves costs, and time. Also, u dont need any of the old hardware, such as cdrom drives, hard drives, etc. Networking and internet is also no issue as if it works on the server, it has to work on each of the terminals too... kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: Let me echo Caryl's question. Do we have a page with tasks for new volunteers? http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO has been restored and is ready to be updated, perhaps restructured to cover this need. --Fred ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Getting data about the upgrading older machines and SoaS responsiveness.
That's a good point, and I understand the thinking behind it, as if you are not 'changing' anything in an existing setup, people are less afraid that things might go terribly wrong. That's the reason we have ltsp on a usb stick... because you can stick in a server, and test it without installing anything. Think of it as SoaS server with beaurocratic advantages included (taking care of networking, providing Sugar images, setting up user accounts, providng collaboration if necessary. It is by no means the XS server, nor should it try to be that, its just the desktop environment part with ejabberd, if needed.. of course, it only works in wired environments. kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 8:19 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:24 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: When it come to older pcs, it really makes sense to try and use LTSP. We have created a kiwi-ltsp usb stick for openSUSE, which gives a portable ltsp server wherever u plug it in. In most cases it would make sense for this to be the most powerful computer. It is as easy as installing the sugar and sugar activities meta packages on this usb image and the users on the ltsp network then have access to Sugar from any computer in the network, and they are bound to load faster than from a usb image. The advantage is u need one usb stick per network, as opposed to one for each terminal... that saves costs, and time. Also, u dont need any of the old hardware, such as cdrom drives, hard drives, etc. Networking and internet is also no issue as if it works on the server, it has to work on each of the terminals too... SoaS is also working on a slightly different issue. I didn't understand it until Caroline explained it for about the 100th time yesterday:) In addition to all the technical hurdles. Sugar on a Stick is tackling the _bureaucratic_ issue of installing and running Sugar (or any software) on systems which one doesn't have admin access. In many schools it can be difficult to get the authority to install software or modify the configuration on their computers. SoaS circumvents that problem by replacing 'install a new OS' with 'insert the stick and turn it on.' The piece that I was _misunderstanding_ was that all of the technically hurdles that SoaS introduces are worth the ability to circumvent the bureaucratic hurdles. FWIW, at least in developed nations Once you get the bureaucratic permission to 'install' Sugar, a client-server configuration is most palatable to the existing generation of elementary school sysadmins. david kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: Let me echo Caryl's question. Do we have a page with tasks for new volunteers? http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO has been restored and is ready to be updated, perhaps restructured to cover this need. --Fred ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] personalisation and collaboration
Having pondered this a bit more, I came up with a practical example. Lets say we have a student in Uruguay, lets call him Fernando, and lets say we have a student in the UK, lets call her Suzy. Suzy's Spanish is not great, as she hasn't had the chance to delve into it practically, nor is she getting the right idea about how everyday Spanish is used in Spanish countries, having relied on terrible cliched examples of her antiquated text books. Fernando's English is not very good, seeing as the only English he is subjected to are pirate movies he buys from the local market, so he's learned more slang than real English. His school isn't even teaching English, but he desperately wants to learn it. Colabot knows both of these users, as it has analysed every willing user's e-portfolio, and knows they would compliment each other perfectly say by sharing the Speak activity. Colabot could suggest times at which these 2 students could meet virtually and collaborate in order to improve their language skills. Colabot could keep track of their on going meetings, showing the amount of hours spent on language learning. Colabot could even give out an award or recognition after the students had spent X amount of hours learning together. The great thing about this example is that it seems to me to be pure construcionism with technology at its simplest and its best. The 2 students are teachers to each other, and colabot is there purely in the capacity a teacher normally should be, to guide the learning process. kind Regards, David Van Assche On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:00 AM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Something has been in the back of my head for a while now, ever since I've seen the impressive capabilities of being able to share an activity with your neighbourhood. Being able to cooperatively use applications brings a new level of playability to it all, and it reminds me of when I first saw the ability for a computer game to be 'multi-player.'This gave it an extra dimension, and with it came the idea of awards for completing certain things, which would be displayed in your dashoard somewhere.The award system seems even more relevant for education than it did for games. We'v aleady mentioned the benefits of an award sysem so I'm not going to regugitate that, but what hasnt''t really been spoken about is, how and what kind of personal details should the journal store and share. I see this as a customisable option, something that can be as simple as only sharing first names, or sharing the name of your pet, your favorite colors and foods, the languages you speak. This detailed information about a person is extremely valuable to the underlying system, as it can potentially match people against each other. This would allow for some interesting possibilities when it comes to collaboration, such as the system suggesting users to challenge/collaborate with based on personal information. I thought about having a robot that lives on an irc channel capable of helping with the collaboration procedure, as well as listing achievements, giving data on which users want to collaborate, giving help on how collaboration works with particular activities, listing which servers have open collaboration, showing the most used/highest rated collaborating activities, etc. I havent thought about this too much in depth, but I know coding a bot is not too hard. I see it as an extension to the speak AI, and encouragement to join irc. We can even get the bot to accept uploads of raw learning materials categorised by subject, which can then be used by content creators. it itself could give out quizzes based on particular subjects, or interesting pieces of information/knowledge. It could be taught new information, by feeding it localised knowledge. It would be important to know where we set the limits to what it can do. Just some food for thought... David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep In general, the idea of bots living in the Sugar neighborhood is a theme we haven't explored very much. It would be nice to come up with a simple, consistent framework for creating such a resource. Making it available through IRC as well is a cool idea. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [math4] Activity Awards, Activity Alerts, Frame Alerts
of a picture s/he has uploaded and lets the user then fill in the labels. We can measure a whole host of things, such as, were the labels filled in while connected to the internet (they could have used wikipedia to gather the information), and should the user be encouraged to do that or not... What I guess I'm pointing out is, we need to delve deep into how this should all work, but the initial concept rocks, and we should try and either adapt an existing activity (Gary suggested using his moon activity to name the various parts of it) or make an easy framwork that would allow a teacher to upload a picture and then tag the various points in the picture together with the possible answers. Either is fine, though the later is more desirable as it would allow us to explore the possibilities a little more deeply, and would allow for the immediate creation of content there for, which could be easily stored in moodle or an activity meta bundle, or whatever... So lets decide how we move forwards on this and get to it then... kind regards, David Van Assche On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Frederick, On 6 Jun 2009, at 00:30, Frederick Grose wrote: On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: ... FWIW, David Van Assche raised some interesting Activity ideas at SugarCamp Paris and I'm interested/active in getting us to at lease 'demo' state in the Sugar 0.86 release timeframe. The idea is to focus on an 'awards' mechanism/style to encourage exploration and provide (sometimes) unexpected rewards. Idea is that Activity authors can define a range of badges/medals/icons for certain behaviours/ accomplishment in an attempt to get students to dig deeper (mix of 'easter eggs' and specific goals). It's mainly Activity side work (a demo activity to start with) but perhaps could find a home in the Journal (through an ability of Activity to set some private entry tag and for Journal to display that in a user appealing graphical form). Even for something as hard to measure as the Write Activity, there could be 'awards' (hidden or hinted at) for things like found 10 or more collaborators for one document, gained at least 100 words each from 5 or more collaborators, wrote more than 1,000 words, you used the word entomology!. The idea is many would be hidden (surprise, you did something cool!) and that some initial more obvious and visible 'awards' would hint that others were there for discovery. Regards, --Gary P.S. Mechanisms for 'awards' could hook into services like Moodle, the Journal, or via collaboration (so perhaps a shared Write session would show awards gained by the collaborators). Having a view to show all Activity Awards would also be a good driver (could be an activity, or ideally at some point part of Journal). The general idea for awards drifts in from the gaming environment, where awards are used to increase re-playability and tempt folks to try some other possible path. ... Nice concept. Some design and code integration with Activity Alerts, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac/sugar.graphics.alert , and Frame alerts, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#12 , http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#13, etc. may be appropriate. Yep, I imagine it's being up to the activity how it reveals a new 'award' being reached, but it could be as simple as showing an activity alert message (perhaps as a default design guideline for awards, if it is accepted), or some fancy splash/animation if the activity deems it appropriate. http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/722 has some discussion. I would like to see more noticeable messages for chat invitation alerts, for example. I think this is intended more for Activities (or Sugar shell) in the background to get your attention, but I guess it could be appropriated also for awards. I'll keep it in mind, thanks. Don't know where this is recorded for the Sugar 0.86 roadmap, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86#Proposal_Goals ? It's not there. Though it did get discussed at SugarCamp Paris (along with a many other good ideas). I see awards as happening first as a single Activity demonstrator, not initially needing any Sugar integration work or time, but I (and David) would like to see it in the same time frame as 0.86. If it works, and is of demonstrable value, then we have fair grounds to lobby for the integration of useful/generic code, already written, into Sugar 0.88 for other Activities to easily reuse. The software infrastructure you propose could also be used for random or rule-based, single-point lesson reminders or reinforcers of learning. Yep :-) Regards
Re: [IAEP] collaboration testing session
Well as we just discussed in irc, some activities will actually share and allow for collaboration, but the vast majority do not and/or dont work between different distribution methods. In any case we can certainly try some out and send you the log files to dissect, in case u cannot make it. kind regards, David (nubae) On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 06:09, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK) So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-) We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... What do you mean by compatible for collaboration and why do you think it won't work between 0.82 and 0.84? Regards, Tomeu Please post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1 and 2 hours... Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on whether/how we can make them collaborative: sugar-finance sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-freecell sugar-imageviewer sugar-implode sugar-infoslicer sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity sugar-joke-machine-activity sugar-jukebox sugar-labyrinth sugar-maze sugar-memorize sugar-moon sugar-paint-activity sugar-pippy sugar-playgo sugar-read sugar-readetexts-activity sugar-record sugar-slider-puzzle-activity sugar-speak sugar-storybuilder sugar-tamtam-common sugar-tamtam-edit sugar-tamtam-jam sugar-tamtam-mini sugar-tamtam-synthlab sugar-analyze sugar-turtleart sugar-typing-turtle sugar-viewslides sugar-write sugar-browse sugar-irc sugar-calculate sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail) sugar-cartoonbuilder sugar-clock sugar-colors sugar-connect sugar-drgeo-activity xoEditor sugar-evince sugar-fiftytwo sugar-chat sugar-terminal sugar-journal sugar-physics sugar-library sugar-poll sugar-tuxpaint kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche www.nubae.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] collaboration testing session
Ok, etoys included too.. On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote: On 05.06.2009, at 06:09, David Van Assche wrote: Hi folks, We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK) So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-) We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1 and 2 hours... Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on whether/how we can make them collaborative: What's the reason you exclude Etoys, which does support collaboration? - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] collaboration testing session
Hi folks, We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK) So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-) We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1 and 2 hours... Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on whether/how we can make them collaborative: sugar-finance sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-freecell sugar-imageviewer sugar-implode sugar-infoslicer sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity sugar-joke-machine-activity sugar-jukebox sugar-labyrinth sugar-maze sugar-memorize sugar-moon sugar-paint-activity sugar-pippy sugar-playgo sugar-read sugar-readetexts-activity sugar-record sugar-slider-puzzle-activity sugar-speak sugar-storybuilder sugar-tamtam-common sugar-tamtam-edit sugar-tamtam-jam sugar-tamtam-mini sugar-tamtam-synthlab sugar-analyze sugar-turtleart sugar-typing-turtle sugar-viewslides sugar-write sugar-browse sugar-irc sugar-calculate sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail) sugar-cartoonbuilder sugar-clock sugar-colors sugar-connect sugar-drgeo-activity xoEditor sugar-evince sugar-fiftytwo sugar-chat sugar-terminal sugar-journal sugar-physics sugar-library sugar-poll sugar-tuxpaint kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche www.nubae.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] SugarCamp Berlin
If we could do a meet prior to Sunday, that'd be great as my plane leaves on Sunday 14.00 David (nubae) On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote: On 31.05.2009, at 21:45, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 21:32, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: With Sean's highly likely, we have five attendees:) I'll start putting together a event wiki where we can work on the logistics. Be sure to invite your friends and neighbours. Particularly those with an interest in Sugar who will already be at LinuxTag. Btw, the other day I dreamed that we were in a SugarCamp in Brazil, staying in an apartment similar to Sean's (but with furniture) where we ate excellent but very weird asiatic-looking food. Many of the attendants of the last SugarCamp were there and also several new female members. Will keep you posted about further precognitive sugar-related dreams. Yours truly, Tomeu Hehe, you should come to Porto Alegre then :) http://squeakland.org/squeakfest/brasil - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Request for Artwork: Boot Screen
Yeah, this is also something that is relevant and usable across distros, so lets try and make it distro agnostic David On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'd like to do a mockup of my idea (tonight), post it to the wiki under Gary's, and have feedback from the Design Team about both The splash/progress page is a key moment of a Learner's interaction with Sugar, let's explore its possibilities before finalizing it thanks Sean On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Hi all, this is just great - thanks a lot for working on it so quickly! :) It looks really promising! Let me know if you want me to grab the .png files from somewhere to build a test package... --Sebastian Sean DALY wrote: wow Gary you were up all night on that Yes by all means back on list I really like the logo cycling through our colors, it's a golden rule of marketing to not change logo colors and we break it with panache (each press release PDF has a different color theme too) i want to mock up with kid avatars around Activity icons I build animated GIFs the old-fashioned imagemagick way: $ convert -delay 20 progress-*.png animation.gif I'll upload something today thanks Sean On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Folks, Just to get a basic, safe, default starting point in there, I've uploaded one simple treatment to: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo#Sugar_Boot_Logo_Animations Will try to upload a couple more tomorrow. Night, --Gary P.S. Should pull this back on list, your call Sean, but probably worth getting a couple more ideas up so that folks can input to some alternative treatments. On 30 May 2009, at 00:58, Sean DALY wrote: Christian, Eben I'm not sure if you are on sugar-devel but this is I think an outstanding opportunity for Sugar branding, celebrating Sugar interface.iconography and greeting children. I know nothing about the plymouth boot animator, but i deduce that consecutively named files will do the trick I'm willing to attack this but before I try scraping screenshots, do you guys have any interface assets i could grab? Input greatly appreciated thanks Sean On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we could work on it together? here's my idea like my booth rollup banner mockup which Christian 7 Eben both liked, I want to stay as much as possible within the Sugar HIG and iconography. boot should start with our logo ... smaller than in the previous SoaS ... (not sure yet if should be with or without labs) The ring is iconic ... I want to keep a ring at boot... but instead of dots, I want XO avatars - kids! In the middle... each succeeding image with a colored Activity icon... matched to the corresponding XO avatar appearing in the ring. So kids understand that Activities are for them. And ending with... kids around the Journal! Alternate idea: cycling through the 12 logo color combos? Not mutually exclusive... logo could be on the bottom of ring What do you think? thanks Sean P.S. I've actually done something similar with a titling sequence for a short film. I started with the final image and wiped elements, backing down to the first image I use imagemagick a lot no problem to create a script which could inject arbitrary text into a ppm file On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Sean, FYI, this came in off list. Regards, --G Begin forwarded message: From: James Zakijames.z...@gmail.com Date: 29 May 2009 22:24:06 BST To: Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Request for Artwork: Boot Screen I'm in touch with a design company who owes me a favour or two. I could get them to whip up some concept designs for inspiration? James 2009/5/29 Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com On 29 May 2009, at 21:37, Sean DALY wrote: Sebastian, Gary I'd like to take a stab at it, I've actually had an idea brewing for awhile Cool, shout if you need extra hands/review. --G What's the deadline please? thanks Sean On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 29 May 2009, at 18:41, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: Hi folks, sorry for the short notice, but this is rather urgent. I've been spending yesterday afternoon to update the packages in our SoaS Yum repo to reflect the changes for Fedora 11. As it turned out, the plymouth package has been partly rewritten, and I was wondering (also with regard to #709), how we wanted to deal with a new boot screen. For now, I've just implemented the old Sugar logo again, but
[IAEP] classroom presenter, iTalc for sugar (possible ports for LinuxTag Berlin showoff)
Hi, At LinuxTag Berlin, there are 3 areas that are of particular interest to me, and might be considered novelties in the way sugar can/will be presented there. From one side, I will be representing sugar packaging on the openSUSE platform, and being part of the opensuse-edu team, we will show off not only the live suse sugar cd/usb stick, but also the tight integration (including desktop launch icon) of sugar within the openSUSE 11.1 educational spin. Since kiwi-ltsp (A mature variant of LTSP 5) is quite integrated in the educational desktop, as is ejabberd, we will show off LTSP sugarised, with the approximately 50 sugar activities that have been packaged for openSUSE. Within the LTSP framework, we often use an application called iTalc, which allows for the remote administration (vnc on steroids) of desktop sessions, locking of sessions, passing around of sessions (for the classroom environment) as well as, intra station messaging (in case a particular station needs administrative help/training/support.) Right now, it runs great on the administrator machine, which doesn't need to and won't run Sugar. Basically from this view one can see screenshots of each desktop and by clicking on the desktop in question, one takes over or shares that session with that particular sugar user. There is more explanation and screenshots here: http://italc.sourceforge.net/ On the client side, it would be nice for someone to study how hard it would be to port to sugar. Its not massively important since it runs from gnome, but for scenarios where sugar is the only Desktop Environment, it would be nice to have this kind of controlling mechanism for the teacher/admin. For example, the teacher could collaboratively work on one session connected to a projector, and pass that session on friom student to student, with each of them carrying out some task. I have seen it used this way under Gnome with great success, and as Sugar is collaborative by nature, it seems like a perfect fit. So any sugar porting takers? On another note, I have successfully tested the home made whiteboard option using a wiimote and infra red pens. This approach allows for the building of an interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. Unfortunately, the best software to use for something like this is classroom presenter, originally windows software allowing one to open a powerpoint/impress presenation and then draw upon that using the infra red pen. Classroom presenter was ported to sugar at one point. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Classroom_Presenter , but I'm not sure about its current status, only that it doesn't currently work. Again, it would be nice to fix this activity so we can show it off at LinuxTag and show people how to create a cheap sugarised interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. If someone is interested in getting this activity working again for Sugar, that would be great. kind Regards, David (nubae) Van Assche www.nubae.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] classroom presenter, iTalc for sugar (possible ports for LinuxTag Berlin showoff)
Hi, Caroline, that is exactly how iTalc works. The teacher can pass on the session to one or groups of students, so it becomes a great way for everyone to join in. If you are going to be at LinuxTag, I can do a quick demo so u can see how this would work in a real teaching environment. I have also been testing the wiimote whiteboard solution, which is truly outstanding. The solution works better than I had projected (no pun intended) and though I have not been able to run it inside Sugar yet, Classroom Presenter is a great tool for this. Basically its like having a really big touchpad on the projection screen, and up to 4 people can use the infra red pens at once. Again, this allows for some pretty neat collaborative abilities. Tony Anderson is working on the next version of Classroom presenter which should also be able to read out slides. He will be at LinuxTag, and hopefully we can put together some kind of demonstration of how the wiimote works with it. Same goes for iTalc and LTSP. So its all looking good... The wiimote whiteboard software runs on Linux, Windows and Mac (more info here: http://www.uweschmidt.org/wiimote-whiteboard) with up to 2 concurrent pens, smoothing callibration (how straight a line u can draw) and basically turns an infra red pen into a mouse pointer. By using single click and double click u can pretty much control the computer from the projector screen, including doing really neat stuff in gimp, sugar-paint, inkscape, and classroom presenter. Even things like google earth being controlled this way is very very cool. The cost of all the necessary items is under 50 euros, so this is truly an amazing solution that can be adopted in 3rd world countries too. For the same functionality, you'd normally be paying thousands of euros, and the stuff would still require extra licenses, etc. All the software to run this is free, and I hope we can get some more testing done in this area at LinuxTag, including a moodle tutorial, and how/where to get the software. On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.comwrote: +1 on the importance of iTalc like functionality. If that is something Windows/Apple can do and Sugar can't its going to hurt adoption. It would be cool if students could also become the presenters so the teacher could ask a student in the room to explain how a problem was done and pass control over to that student for a while. On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:17 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, At LinuxTag Berlin, there are 3 areas that are of particular interest to me, and might be considered novelties in the way sugar can/will be presented there. From one side, I will be representing sugar packaging on the openSUSE platform, and being part of the opensuse-edu team, we will show off not only the live suse sugar cd/usb stick, but also the tight integration (including desktop launch icon) of sugar within the openSUSE 11.1 educational spin. Since kiwi-ltsp (A mature variant of LTSP 5) is quite integrated in the educational desktop, as is ejabberd, we will show off LTSP sugarised, with the approximately 50 sugar activities that have been packaged for openSUSE. Within the LTSP framework, we often use an application called iTalc, which allows for the remote administration (vnc on steroids) of desktop sessions, locking of sessions, passing around of sessions (for the classroom environment) as well as, intra station messaging (in case a particular station needs administrative help/training/support.) Right now, it runs great on the administrator machine, which doesn't need to and won't run Sugar. Basically from this view one can see screenshots of each desktop and by clicking on the desktop in question, one takes over or shares that session with that particular sugar user. There is more explanation and screenshots here: http://italc.sourceforge.net/ On the client side, it would be nice for someone to study how hard it would be to port to sugar. Its not massively important since it runs from gnome, but for scenarios where sugar is the only Desktop Environment, it would be nice to have this kind of controlling mechanism for the teacher/admin. For example, the teacher could collaboratively work on one session connected to a projector, and pass that session on friom student to student, with each of them carrying out some task. I have seen it used this way under Gnome with great success, and as Sugar is collaborative by nature, it seems like a perfect fit. So any sugar porting takers? On another note, I have successfully tested the home made whiteboard option using a wiimote and infra red pens. This approach allows for the building of an interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. Unfortunately, the best software to use for something like this is classroom presenter, originally windows software allowing one to open a powerpoint/impress presenation and then draw upon that using the infra red pen. Classroom
Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 14, Issue 58
Please could you also give us the link to the source for the readetexts activity. We have it packaged in openSUSE, and I'd like to be able to offer the latest version... kind Regards, David Van Assche P.S. The last git commit I see for read e texts was in March... On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.comwrote: Tomeu, This link is not to the main Gutenberg site, but to a Czech Republic site. The books seem to be all in Czech. Project Gutenberg does not list this site as an affiliate. I don't know what's going on here. James Simmons Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Hmm, actually I looked for this book and couldn't find it from inside ETexts: http://www.gutenberg.cz/kniha.php?etext_nr=357 Any idea why? Thanks, Tomeu ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Help to Find the PO file of Some Activities to able me to Translate Them
Super... that methodology should be written up some place as its a great guide to follow... David On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi David, On 24 May 2009, at 11:47, David Van Assche wrote: Overall it would be nice if we had an activitiy matrix that showed the stages of projects. The Activity Team have been making contact with past authors, slowly, slowly we're moving along even if it means adopting extra activities ourselves: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Activity_Status The best thing folks can do If they have a favourite activity that is not yet migrated to Sugar Labs infrastructure is make some noise about it. Email the IAEP and/or sugar-devel and advocate or ask about it, email the author/s, see if they are still working on it or have future plans. Many activity developers seem to think no one is interested/using their work and often seem pleasantly surprised when they get an email about their past efforts. This would be helpful to show what people could work on to. Something like, name of activity on one side, and on the other stage (planning, pre-source, alpha, beta, rc, release, packaged, xo bundled, translated) Something along those lines, but I'm sure someone can come up with a better matrix. If this was up at some place, we could know pretty quickly what people could be working on. It could even be split by distro too... The idea came to me because there are a ton of git projects with no code in them. If there are git projects with no code in them, what makes you think the developer will edit another page somewhere else with project status information! ;-b With my activity developer hat on, I do find it a pain how many seemingly random places there are to work on when releasing a new version, even more for a new project, or migrated one. My check-list/todo-list is something like: If it's a new project: - Create a Gitorious project repository for it http://git.sugarlabs.org/and start hacking on your code - Request a trac component for you activity at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ - Open a trac ticket to request addition to Pootle (if your strings/release is reasonably mature/ready) - Create a page at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/actvity-name If it's a new release: - Update your activities wiki page at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/actvity-name - Upload the .xo bundle, screenshots, notes to http://activities.sugarlabs.org/ - Upload .bz2 source to shell.sugarlabs.org /upload/sugar/sources/honey - Edit wiki table http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Source_Code and make sure it's pointing to your latest .bz2 - Edit wiki table http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Roadmap to get it on Soas - Write a [RELEASE] activity-name-version email and send it to sugar-devel If the project is migrating from olpc infrastructure: - Migrate git repository from http://dev.laptop.org/ - Migrate open trac tickets from http://dev.laptop.org/ - Track down relevant wiki.laptop.org pages and indicate the migration - For deployed activities make sure relevant http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities page version templates point to the correct/latest working bundles. I'm sure I missed a step or two, but I think you get the picture! On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Hi Mohammad, On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 06:36, Mohammad Hamed m.ha...@paiwastoon.com.af wrote: Dear Software Translators, Could you please tell me how can I translate some Activities like: Physics, X2O, WFP, Implode, Conozco Uruguay to my language? FWIW: Having spoken with Alex Levenson yesterday, I've started to migrate Physics over to Suage Labs infrastructure (X2o is next on my list). It runs fine on sugar-jhbuild, but does need some UI work and clean-up before I request addition to pootle for translation, or upload a bundle to activities.sugarlabs.org. I also mailed Jo Lee (Implode) about his availability, will migrate that over as well if he doesn't have the time at the moment. Regards, --Gary If you could tell me that how can I find the PO file of the activities it would be easier for me to translate them. Looks like these activities are not in pootle yet. What I think we should do is to contact the maintainers and work with them so their activities are translatable in pootle. If the activities have no active maintainers, then perhaps the Activity Team could adopt them? Regards, Tomeu Sincerely, Mohammad Hamed User Service Officer One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) Project PAIWASTOON Networking Services Ltd. Email: m.ha...@paiwastoon.com.af Mobile: 0093 786 876546 Phone: 0093 794 195494 PAIWASTOON Networking Services Ltd. 1st street Kart-e-Se, Darul Aman Road Kabul, Afghanistan www.paiwastoon.com.af www.olpc.af
Re: [IAEP] Help to Find the PO file of Some Activities to able me to Translate Them
Well the main thing here is about demoing... I've taken it upon myself to package about 50 activities... including fructose and glucose... now... we have things like flash which isnt an xo bundle, though many people believe it could/should be, and that would/should be considered a honey app, but it must be installed via rpm Really the only process required with the new jhconvert alexey has been working on is upload to git, then jhconvert creates the packages for the all the distros, including the .xo bundles... so really we want to make it as easy as authors not having to worry about packaging at all... just about uploading their latest source to git.sugarlabs.org, the only place the source really needs to be... we can automate the rest... but your process is currently the only sane thing I've seen written up and it'd be a shame to loose it in the anals of archived emails... so better wiki than nothing, no? kind Regards, David Van Assche On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 25 May 2009, at 12:33, David Van Assche wrote: Super... that methodology should be written up some place as its a great guide to follow... I'd much rather try and find some agreement to cut un-necessary steps, rather than to wikify/formalise it and push every unfortunate Activity author through the same sausage factory! :-) /me puts on tinfoil hat and asbestos socks I've still not heard a good argument for why Activity authors currently need to create two bundles with identical source content (one .xo zip and one .bz2), upload them to two different locations, and document them in several different places. It's really easy to get out of sync. I'm also still not convinced about the sanity of distros needing to package up each individual Activity (other than perhaps sucrose as one collection). If, for a moment, you think of Sugar as a Firefox, and Activities as Addons, does each distro really consider packaging up every Addon kicking about for Firefox? Once a Sugar release and its platform dependancies are yum, aptitude, or whatever installed; the Sugar UI should then be the one to add/update additional Activities (via Browse as currently, or via a future update control panel checking with activity.sugarlabs.org). Regards, --Gary David On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi David, On 24 May 2009, at 11:47, David Van Assche wrote: Overall it would be nice if we had an activitiy matrix that showed the stages of projects. The Activity Team have been making contact with past authors, slowly, slowly we're moving along even if it means adopting extra activities ourselves: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Activity_Status The best thing folks can do If they have a favourite activity that is not yet migrated to Sugar Labs infrastructure is make some noise about it. Email the IAEP and/or sugar-devel and advocate or ask about it, email the author/s, see if they are still working on it or have future plans. Many activity developers seem to think no one is interested/using their work and often seem pleasantly surprised when they get an email about their past efforts. This would be helpful to show what people could work on to. Something like, name of activity on one side, and on the other stage (planning, pre-source, alpha, beta, rc, release, packaged, xo bundled, translated) Something along those lines, but I'm sure someone can come up with a better matrix. If this was up at some place, we could know pretty quickly what people could be working on. It could even be split by distro too... The idea came to me because there are a ton of git projects with no code in them. If there are git projects with no code in them, what makes you think the developer will edit another page somewhere else with project status information! ;-b With my activity developer hat on, I do find it a pain how many seemingly random places there are to work on when releasing a new version, even more for a new project, or migrated one. My check-list/todo-list is something like: If it's a new project: - Create a Gitorious project repository for it http://git.sugarlabs.org/ and start hacking on your code - Request a trac component for you activity at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ - Open a trac ticket to request addition to Pootle (if your strings/release is reasonably mature/ready) - Create a page at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/actvity-name If it's a new release: - Update your activities wiki page at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/actvity-name - Upload the .xo bundle, screenshots, notes to http://activities.sugarlabs.org/ - Upload .bz2 source to shell.sugarlabs.org /upload/sugar/sources/honey - Edit wiki table http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Source_Code and make sure it's pointing to your latest .bz2 - Edit wiki table http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go
Re: [IAEP] Help to Find the PO file of Some Activities to able me to Translate Them
Its a start indeed, except all the links go to dev.laptop.org with no source, and most have no status at all. Does anyone mind if I create a new one based on this and what I know? I'll then try and find the exact status of all activities. I need this anyway for the activities I am packaging so it shouldnt be too much extra work. Kind Regards, David Van Assche On 5/24/09, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:47 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Overall it would be nice if we had an activitiy matrix that showed the stages of projects. This would be helpful to show what people could work on to. Something like, name of activity on one side, and on the other stage (planning, pre-source, alpha, beta, rc, release, packaged, xo bundled, translated) Something along those lines, but I'm sure someone can come up with a better matrix. If this was up at some place, we could know pretty quickly what people could be working on. It could even be split by distro too... The idea came to me because there are a ton of git projects with no code in them. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Activity_Status is a start... -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Cheap User Testing (via Steve Krug)
On a similar note I've been doing some publicity, but from the developer side. Basicaly, there are lots of projects that have irc channels, and many of those folks are interested in getting involved in other projects. Of course, its hard to convince people unless it works for particular distros... debian and ubuntu come to mind. But there is a lot of interest in helping out, and I believe a good recruiting method is joining the various freenode channels and just talking a bit about the project. kind regards, David (nubae) Van Assche On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote: On Sat, 2009-05-23 at 11:24 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Hi, Mike Fletcher writes a brief summary of a testing technique that I think could bring good insight about how Sugar is used. I think it could help with both discoverability (new users) and usability (day to day usage). http://blog.vrplumber.com/index.php?/archives/2335-Cheap-User-Testing-via-Steve-Krug.html nice ! It very close do with DBBG - download - burn - boot - Give Feedback For 8 people I asked, after 4 days: - 2 not heard from again (I will ask later) - 1 I asked status = burned but not booted jet. - 1 I asked status He opinion: - maybe 3rd world but not here, - can't find the wifi settings. - Abiword is too limited Maye I should add tasks like, - Getting language settings - Getting wifi/network to work - Like browsing http://sugarlabs.org - opening a chat - more? More findings: - asking in 1:1 setting very effective - asking in chat setting rather effective - asking by email = not really working - asking to mailinglist = not working kind regards, Marten Regards, Tomeu ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- http://martenvijn.nl Marten Vijn http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas Sugar on a Stick http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/ The Network Event Kit http://har2009.org 13th-16th August http://opencommunitycamp.org 26th Jul - 2nd August ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] personal marketing (bottum up approach)
One thing solution we use at openSUSE to get increcremental images, ie... you have an older version of SOAS or sugar or whatever image, but you want a newer one, well solution is to use rsync, but this would need to be enabled by the host (ie wherever all this is being hosted downloaded from [bernie, caroline?]): First check the latest image at: (This definetly works with openSUSE where sugar is completely integrated, even with an icon on the desktop that takes you straight into sugar from the desktop. The address for either SugarSuse or openSUSE-edu is here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/iso/ ) The Soas images (snapshots, ie latests sugar) are here as far as I can tell: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/ Copy old image with exactly same name as new image available: cp oldimage.iso exact-name-new-image-is.iso Run rsync again to patch it: rsync -avP rsync://mirror.leaseweb.com/opensuse/repositories/Education/images/iso/exact-name-new-image-is.iso . Dot at the end with space before it is part of the command. This will download only the bytes that have changed, which in some cases is just few MBs, saving few GBs of download. Obviously p2p is another good solution to get initial images going if a couple of people choose to upload to linuxtracker.org or something... kind Regards, David (Nubae) Van Assche On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote: Dear All, In the last 24 hours I talked to 12 persons about Sugar. - 6 persons have downloaded sugar and said to give feedback on Sugar - I have send a request for testing to i-netw...@dgroups.org. This is one the main mailinglistings in Africa. My findings so far: 1. Asking people to help works. I ask can you help me. Can you download an iso, burn it to cd, boot it, and give you opinion an email? This is very effective in shifting from talking about to doing. 2. The download seems to be slow. Possible sollution, shall I ask for bandwith to mirror the iso image? Can someone make familiar with an optimal solution (syncing/redirecting). kind regards, Marten -- http://martenvijn.nl Marten Vijn http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas Sugar on a Stick http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/ The Network Event Kit http://har2009.org 13th-16th August http://opencommunitycamp.org 26th Jul - 2nd August ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] personal marketing (bottum up approach)
I think that there is a kind of formal technical/distribution position forming here. Ie... someone that would be responsible for supporting distribution methods of sugar (this should not be confused with QA, bugsquad or anything else) It just needs to be a person that can say all the available methods of distribution, and perhaps working on communication between distros and Sugar team... what do u guys think? Marten or I are both capable of doing this job just fine, but it kind of overlaps with the infrastructure team... we'd need to be sure like Marten says we have access to a server to set up rsync, torrent distribution and even our own build Service (openSUSE build service is totally gpl ;-) ) What should this position be called, I have no idea, I came up with lateral distro architect, but I have no idea if that is specific enough or even too generic. What do u think? perhaps forming a team that me and marten can be integrated with seams obvious for the time being. Both of us also want to work towards centralised distribution methods that are push and not just pull, whatever they might be. I'm forwarding this to sugar-devel as well as this has to do with them too, and an olpc rep so that we can make sure they know what we are doing with sugar distribution. kind Regards, David (Nubae) Van Assche On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote: Thanks David, I will go for bandwith then asking for rsync as requirement. A torrend would optional. Some things I would like to assure mirrors have to: - have directory layout - same names Features I would also like to have - having a Last_version symlink to the last version. (keep links valid over time) - md5sums - list of mirrors on the website - or better mirror autoselection Besides from getting bandwidth is there a way I can help to achieve this? (I guess ssh access would be needed) Kind regards, Marten On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 12:10 +0200, David Van Assche wrote: One thing solution we use at openSUSE to get increcremental images, ie... you have an older version of SOAS or sugar or whatever image, but you want a newer one, well solution is to use rsync, but this would need to be enabled by the host (ie wherever all this is being hosted downloaded from [bernie, caroline?]): First check the latest image at: (This definetly works with openSUSE where sugar is completely integrated, even with an icon on the desktop that takes you straight into sugar from the desktop. The address for either SugarSuse or openSUSE-edu is here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/iso/ ) The Soas images (snapshots, ie latests sugar) are here as far as I can tell: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/ Copy old image with exactly same name as new image available: cp oldimage.iso exact-name-new-image-is.iso Run rsync again to patch it: rsync -avP rsync://mirror.leaseweb.com/opensuse/repositories/Education/images/iso/exact-name-new-image-is.iso . Dot at the end with space before it is part of the command. This will download only the bytes that have changed, which in some cases is just few MBs, saving few GBs of download. Obviously p2p is another good solution to get initial images going if a couple of people choose to upload to linuxtracker.org or something... kind Regards, David (Nubae) Van Assche On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote: Dear All, In the last 24 hours I talked to 12 persons about Sugar. - 6 persons have downloaded sugar and said to give feedback on Sugar - I have send a request for testing to i-netw...@dgroups.org. This is one the main mailinglistings in Africa. My findings so far: 1. Asking people to help works. I ask can you help me. Can you download an iso, burn it to cd, boot it, and give you opinion an email? This is very effective in shifting from talking about to doing. 2. The download seems to be slow. Possible sollution, shall I ask for bandwith to mirror the iso image? Can someone make familiar with an optimal solution (syncing/redirecting). kind regards, Marten -- http://martenvijn.nl Marten Vijn http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas Sugar on a Stick http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/ The Network Event Kit http://har2009.org 13th-16th August http://opencommunitycamp.org 26th Jul - 2nd August ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- http://martenvijn.nl Marten Vijn http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas Sugar on a Stick http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek
Re: [IAEP] VIA C3 based laptop
Or if its really Mandriva (what used to be called mandrake) that you want to run, I believe there are sugar packages for that distro, you might have to search the net a bit. I know Caixa Magica, which is based on Mandriva has been quite worked on to work for many netbooks including the classmate set of netbooks. But start with Sugar on a stick, if it doesn't load, let us know and we can help you to make Sugar work on your hardware and distribution. kind regards, David (Nubae) Van Assche On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote: I would try running Sugar on a Stick as a means of debugging. -walter On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Ashar Iqbal s.ashar.iq...@gmail.com wrote: I have got a laptop with a VIA C3 cpu. This needs i386 based software. Any suggestions as to how to install / run Sugar on this? I got Fedora 10 installed, but get an error on starting X windows. The only distro I got to work with a GUI on the machine is Mandrake 10... Ashar ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] personal marketing (bottum up approach)
me too, shall we take a practical approach and suggest some locations? David (nubae) Van Assche On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote: On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 16:46 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: On 05/19/09 13:51, Walter Bender wrote: Maybe we can find a time in the next few days to all meet on IRC to discuss this? CC'ng Bernie as he is most familiar with the SL infrastructure. Unfortunately, both the main download site and the mirror are located in Boston, so they're both going to be slow for people on the other side of the world. oke, I 'll am going to look European mirrors Marten -- http://martenvijn.nl Marten Vijn http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas Sugar on a Stick http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/ The Network Event Kit http://har2009.org 13th-16th August http://opencommunitycamp.org 26th Jul - 2nd August ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar on LTSP
Due to the sad state of ubuntu sugar, I decided, along with cyberorg to package sugar and quite big set of honey sugar activities (about 50 of them) on openSUSE. The main goal here was to make it work nicely with LTSP. So far that is working quite well, and there is no reason ejabberd won't work with that. It worked just fine with ubuntu intrepid +ejabberd. There are still a couple of hurdles to overcome, such as some activities now working, but we should have a fully functional environment within the coming weeks. I'll keep the list informed. kind Regards, David On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: Sugar is compatible with LTSP systems. The folks at Resera have done good work in this space. However, the Ubuntu packaging of Sugar 0.84 is a bit behind the great work being done by the Debian community. -walter On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote: Hello, I had a conversation with our tech folks on campus yesterday, and Sugar via LTSP (http://www.ltsp.org/) came up. The original discussion was about LTSP and thin and fat clients, but this group is in the College of Education, so the conversation drifted towards Sugar. We've talked about this before, but I'll poke the embers again. Is Sugar usable via LTSP? Espcially the collaborative part via ejabberd? We plan on having a Jaunty-based showcase running in three weeks or so. If Sugar is usable in that environment, we'll definitely push for it in this lab. The lab is used by faculty and students from early childhood ed. and other departments inb CoE. They'd love to bring in teachers and children from local schools to showcase it. I'm cc'ing David Van Assche in case he's not on this list (highly doubtful, though). I am currently using his fatclient script (http://www.nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid) on Intrepid+GNOME. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
you mean lenny+1 then so we'lll see sugar 0.84 in debian in about 1.5 years? David P.S. The worst thing right now would be a fork from Debian for Ubuntu. We'd loose devs, credibility, major problems later down with a remerge... please lets try and find a way to get ubuntu being what it really is, a mature resposible Debian child. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 01:16:19PM +0100, David Van Assche wrote: yes u are absolutly right... 0.84 is the focus now of every distro (maybe excepting debian) Focus for Debian is latest upstream stable release, which means 0.84 when that is released. (trying, like Ubuntu, to be ahead of its upstreams cause complex problems when upstreams then take a different path than was guessed) - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmS2y8ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLjqcgCfeDjx9ke8566u/QRGoqY/Ab3l dzYAn20GZhLlVrjVJCiDNuLwJbwTEZra =wGqf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Our first employee, sort of
Absolutely great. Will she be working within schools.sugarlabs.org? If so, I'd love to help as I have quite a bit of experience with everything Moodle related and how teachers actually use it David Van Assche On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:14 AM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: I would like to announce that due to a generous donation from Solution Grove and some hard work by Caroline Meeks we are in the process of hiring our first employee! Terri is a graduate student at the Harvard School of Education. She will be spending the semester developing teacher training materials. By hiring Terri through a work-study program Sugar Labs only pays 30% of her wage. The school covers the rest. Our goal is for Sugar Labs to hold a work shop at the end of the semester based on Terri's work. If things go well, revenue generated from the workshop will go towards hiring additional work study students next semester. Good Luck and Welcome Terri. Thanks david ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
The problem is that 0.82 is not stable at all but being released in a stable Debian... Ubuntu LTS, btw... always backports its most stable packages to it, so no, its not the same. Otherwise the state it would be in as it was when it was released would be unusable... remember the cachepixmaps bug, cpu cycles gettting eaten to the max, sqlite issue with Firefox? Well, that got SRUd and fixed in days. Why can't there be something like Holger is suggesting... just a place where Debian and Ubuntu can work alongside each other. This Debian vs Ubuntu thing is just becoming silly now There are people in the field who are losing deployment opportunities because of this its not just a wishlist thing... Debian now contains the most unstable sugar release there is... is that where it wants to be? Affecting every *fork* and forcing us to hack around the issues? kind Regards, David Van Assche On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Holger Levsen hol...@layer-acht.org wrote: Hi, we could prepare sugar 0.83 (or 0.84) in experimental, as long as we dont want it in unstable... (I'd be happy to sponsor if someone provides those packages as branch in the alioth gito repos.) regards, Holger ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
hey there sean essentially there is no difference between SoaS and cd the problem comes from the distro specific intricacies, which can be many more than devs care to admit... I agree.. this is not a usable product unless it alll works... saying oh welll speak doesnt work because of x or y, is no excuse. bios has nothing to do with this, this is purely distro related... for example... on fedora we have 80% workage, on ubuntu 40 maybe 50% workage... but for those of us in the field selling this tech, this is not accpetable... I say it again I know its an open source project but it doesnt help funding if we cant even get the damn thing to run a cd, btw, is worse than a stick at this point. at least for ubuntu goood luck and lets work this shit out so we finally have a solution that works in schoosl On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: It is absolutely vital that SoaS boot/install work in a reliable way. Any nongeek user who can't use it will not bother reporting precise bug information, and moreover will lose motivation to try it again. In the case of branded USB sticks boot/install failures will make Sugar Labs appear as a cruddy product. Branded sticks will need to work every time. OK that said I ask you to bear with me since I don't know enough about the (surely formidable) technical hurdles in succeeding boot/install. Can anyone brief me on the importance/difficulty of the following factors? Perhaps there is a page which enumerates these factors? * User difficulty configuring BIOS boot from USB * Underlying distribution * Recognizing hardware * Dependencies * Network (LAN, Internet) connectivity: configuration, absence thereof * USB key locked in read-only mode * Missing or buggy activities Please forgive my ignorance but does SoaS generate a log at boot/install? Are there error codes specific to Sugar? I would imagine that's distribution-dependent... The user feedback rate could be improved if we communicate a super-simple procedure on boot/install failure, e.g. an e-mail address to send a boot/install log file to. As well (perhaps this happens already?), on successful boot/install and with Internet connnectivity, ideally the stick should phone home with the boot log which would indicate successful SoaS/hardware combinations and provide some statistics on how many sticks make it to screens. Of course, per privacy concerns there should be no user-identifiable information, or rather any such info should be immediately anonymized. Is there a way to trap errors in each activity, in case of error can the boot/install log be appended to, can a user feedback agent return the updated log to us if the Net is available? One more (maybe silly) question, is there a fundamental difference between Sugar on a CD and Sugar on a Stick? If this has been dealt with, any pointers to resources would be appreciated. thank you Sean On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:34 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: well this entire conversation was really brought about because I couldnt practice speech with my 2 nephews... Im sorry if I crossed the line a bit, but I think what I said needed to be said... SoaS is indeed the best plqtform right now and the kids not only loved it (one 9 the other 3) they needed no explanation for the interface... to them it was as natural as eating a piece of bread. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Im gonna try and make this easy: SoaS - the latest fedora core based I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one) Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick? Aleksey Lim recently took over this orphaned package. Can you get in touch with him (alsroot on IRC) and help work it out? I have yet to even try SoaS but information on what activities do and don't work should be posted to http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus so we can triage them. We are watching that page. Thus far most of our work has been migrating activities over to SL.org but hopefully we can start actually getting them to work on SoaS soon. On a sidenote: some of the most exciting work for me last summer was Hemant's text-to-speech work, which would have real impact if its integration into Sugar were completed. How close is that to being possible? http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/TypingTurtle-9.xo is the latest release but I can't guarantee it works on anything but XO. [Getting pretty hot...] SJ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education
Re: [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
yes u are absolutly right... 0.84 is the focus now of every distro (maybe excepting debian) we will fix this all, but please, let us not sa y is a releasable usable product for educators until weve tested it ALL and we all agree that this is indeed the produuct (which i need nonconvicnig of) that will change the planet. Lets rock on, keep making it a better product... but stay connected to the people that can advise us on what works and wnat doesnt (INOT ndevs), but educators... I promise from my side to make a strong commitment to make that connection happen Happier thoughts, Nubae On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: Hi all, Reading this thread I've realized that there is a huge lack of target distro, many people work for various distros and the fact is - there is now fully featured sugar for at least one distro. I think we should choose *one* target distro for incoming 0.84 release. I don't mean choose it forever, just one distro which should be a glance facade for future 0.84 release with activities included as much as possible. In fact, there is such distro - SoaS. It has some benefits: - intended to be a live distro - its not an official distro (we could do everything we want) Only one but, lack of coordination - I know what Speak demands, but I couldn't add these dependencies w/o asking busy maintainer(busy not with SoaS). In that case I'm going to take that task. And that's my program: - it will RPMs repo - packaging activities in RPMs: - I need formal(more formal then wiki) way to sort activities for runnable/unrunnable - now (before addons.s.o), there is no accepted strategy for resolving dependencies for honey activities and packaging all activities could help me - there is some activities w/ old .xo bundles that do not include last patches (TamTam, Speak+chat, etc); RPMs will include last dev code - its a nice idea to install all these activities by one command (and even deploy then preinstalled) - do not bother about official status of RPMs; its custom distro not Fedora -- Aleksey ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted upon (much more importantly) Im gonna try and make this easy: SoaS - the latest fedora core based I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one) Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick? ubuntu - no read no write no jiggzawpuzzle etoys scratch epathi measure anything tam tam based until very recently even browse pdf reader of any kind measure distance slider video chat abc flower (thing doesnt even exist) ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies... what is the solution: we test the damn tings before release we do what greg dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution: 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed... the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days: Examples: 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils... guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet exist. 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers... 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time... yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly; 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will really chqnge the world) I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar mean something for teachers David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
you know what the irony is with all this... all we need to do to get those packs working is type ./configure --with-libabiword I know because I took the painful step of doing it in from source... this problem has now existed for 8 months... u tell me if that is acceptable or not. u know the worst part of this entire debacle... only the packzge ,aintainer can fix this 2 second fix::: but obviously he has more important things to do. I aplogogize again for my tone... but this has gone to far... folks like u and me that are in the field selling this `crap`should not be remotemy having these issues... come on people... u want funding... let us do our job then!!! Nubae On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Carol Farlow Lerche c...@msbit.com wrote: Frustration -- yup. However, let's try to come up with a way forward that solves the problem in the sort-of near term, and the frustration in the very near term. I too have been trying to run sugar on ubuntu and having frustration. So, what I think would minimize the frustration is a known place to look for the current state of what works, what doesn't work and why, and a way to work around the problem till it has a permanent fix. It's obvious from the sugar-ubuntu list that quite a few people are finding and fixing bugs, but the fixes are in various stages of hitting the repositories. E.g. and correct if this is inaccurate, it looks to me like the first problem you hit with write and jigsawpuzzle is that abiword hasn't been repackaged to provide a libabiword, and the people who can actually do that (the abiword project) haven't bought into or gotten around to this yet. So can someone provide a different package, even an rpm that could be installed with alien? and could the location of where to get this be noted in the state of the sugar ubuntu nation? Same with other known problems that have been figured out but not percolated into a distributed fix. Rinse and repeat for SOAS and any other distros floating around. This would at least make clear what is known to be wrong, and steps underway to fix. As for the second point, namely providing activities requested by teachers, I agree it is important, and I think Wade has an almost-ready typing tutor (google these lists for a prior thread on this). On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 6:14 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted upon (much more importantly) Im gonna try and make this easy: SoaS - the latest fedora core based I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one) Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick? ubuntu - no read no write no jiggzawpuzzle etoys scratch epathi measure anything tam tam based until very recently even browse pdf reader of any kind measure distance slider video chat abc flower (thing doesnt even exist) ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies... what is the solution: we test the damn tings before release we do what greg dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution: 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed... the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days: Examples: 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils... guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet exist. 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers... 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time... yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly; 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will really chqnge the world) I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar mean something for teachers David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. -- Upton Sinclair ___ IAEP
Re: [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
u do realise that it was me that set up the moodle infrastructure right? except I a was alone... nubae On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: We are trying to gather activity status information at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus - there is a 'soas' tag which indicates the activity works on SoaS, any errors should be reported in the Remarks column. But despite a few public requests we haven't managed to get any SoaS test results posted there. -Wade On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Do we have a place for testers to record the what works with which release? If not perhaps someone could set it up on the moodle system schools.sugarlab.org using the moodle database module: http://docs.moodle.org/en/Database_module On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted upon (much more importantly) Im gonna try and make this easy: SoaS - the latest fedora core based I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one) Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick? ubuntu - no read no write no jiggzawpuzzle etoys scratch epathi measure anything tam tam based until very recently even browse pdf reader of any kind measure distance slider video chat abc flower (thing doesnt even exist) ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies... what is the solution: we test the damn tings before release we do what greg dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution: 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed... the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days: Examples: 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils... guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet exist. 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers... 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time... yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly; 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will really chqnge the world) I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar mean something for teachers David (nubae) Van Assche ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
God I a m happy u stated the needed. We hqd a presentation in Grqz, Austria, where basically we walked out like idiots. We got loqds of feedback, which is what my message as about... but fact remains SoaS, be if fedora (a slight bit better) or ubuntu.. we as educators, marketers can only shake our heads... On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche c...@msbit.com wrote: Caroline, I really don't think the problem is lack of testing in the case of Ubuntu. It is that so little works that activity testing is basically a smoke test (turn it on and see if it even comes up). And because the only status report is a bunch of individual bug reports, there is a high barrier to entry. My strategy has been to try every week or so to update the packages on my Ubuntu laptop and try launching everything. Most packaged activities don't launch. As for SOAS, my experience working in a classroom tells me there is no point in bothering with it until the boot time is substantially reduced, except for the special case of a computer lab. Since my particular school environments and Sugar/OLPC targets don't include that mode, I personally have not been trying it out. FWIW, my deployment timeline for SoaS at the Gardner School is informal usage this summer and classroom usage in the Fall. Anyone using it on a more aggressive timeline should be aware that they are ahead of me and breaking new ground and plan accordingly. On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote: hmm, ok I find that page pretty confusing and hard to use but then I'm not a wiki is all type person. If its working for you and your the activity team then we should try to use it. Maybe you could cross link from the SoaS page. http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick I think our underlying problem is that there is not very much testing being done. On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: We are trying to gather activity status information at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus - there is a 'soas' tag which indicates the activity works on SoaS, any errors should be reported in the Remarks column. But despite a few public requests we haven't managed to get any SoaS test results posted there. -Wade On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Do we have a place for testers to record the what works with which release? If not perhaps someone could set it up on the moodle system schools.sugarlab.org using the moodle database module: http://docs.moodle.org/en/Database_module On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted upon (much more importantly) Im gonna try and make this easy: SoaS - the latest fedora core based I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one) Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick? ubuntu - no read no write no jiggzawpuzzle etoys scratch epathi measure anything tam tam based until very recently even browse pdf reader of any kind measure distance slider video chat abc flower (thing doesnt even exist) ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies... what is the solution: we test the damn tings before release we do what greg dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution: 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed... the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days: Examples: 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils... guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet exist. 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers... 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time... yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly; 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will really chqnge the world) I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms
well this entire conversation was really brought about because I couldnt practice speech with my 2 nephews... Im sorry if I crossed the line a bit, but I think what I said needed to be said... SoaS is indeed the best plqtform right now and the kids not only loved it (one 9 the other 3) they needed no explanation for the interface... to them it was as natural as eating a piece of bread. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: Im gonna try and make this easy: SoaS - the latest fedora core based I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one) Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick? Aleksey Lim recently took over this orphaned package. Can you get in touch with him (alsroot on IRC) and help work it out? I have yet to even try SoaS but information on what activities do and don't work should be posted to http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus so we can triage them. We are watching that page. Thus far most of our work has been migrating activities over to SL.org but hopefully we can start actually getting them to work on SoaS soon. On a sidenote: some of the most exciting work for me last summer was Hemant's text-to-speech work, which would have real impact if its integration into Sugar were completed. How close is that to being possible? http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/TypingTurtle-9.xo is the latest release but I can't guarantee it works on anything but XO. [Getting pretty hot...] SJ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] irc logs
So... to log or not to log, that is the question ? On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: I for one would appreciate automatic logs, freely accessible, fully indexed. If someone is tallying votes: +1 for logs - Bert - ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] irc logs
You can always set up your own eggdrop bot with logs2html which creates a webpage and updates every couple minutes... the results look very good: www.nubae.com/logs I could copy the eggdrop logs file and other elements... and then all u have to do is change the channel name/s David On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: Martin Dengler wrote: Contention: nobody interested in comprehending the logs will not have (or be granted) a shell account from which they can just run irssi and take care of the logging themselves. In case someone is missing a suitable shell account, I've installed irssi and screen on our shell server. Sunjammer account holders: any package you need installed, just ask your friendly bofh. We want people to feel at home there. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] irc logs
Well, I have a logbot running on #ltsp and logging to http://www.nubae.com/logs It would be no skin off my back to have it logging another channel too. Its just one line in the eggdrop config file... David Van Assche On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote: 2009/2/3 Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Jameson Quinn jameson.qu...@gmail.com wrote: Would it be reasonable to ask for logs to be only half-heartedly public? ie, hiding behind a captcha/login choice or at least a non-permissive robots.txt? With that qualification, I would vote for logs +1, without that I am -0. Would you mind them being indexed by a on-site search engine, but not by Google et al.? +1 -- Sebastian Silva Laboratorios FuenteLibre http://blog.sebastiansilva.com/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] SoaS at FOSDEM
Bernie, Can u bring your beagleboard and what you coded for it with you to Fossdem? I'm sure I'm not the only one that would be fascinated to see what u did kind Regards, David On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:54, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: It would be cool to demo SoaS at FOSDEM running on a variety of laptops, including the XO, the EEE PC (me and Tomeu have one) and the Classmate PC (Christoph or Aaron should have one). Pity it's a bit too late to prepare a MIPS soas for the Gdium ;) Well, if we had the hardware today we could try a rush. It didn't take much with the Beagle Board. Do we know what Linux distro they use already? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Report from the field (graz,Austria#1)
to be a vital component to get it to be anything more than a fun experimental game. The simplest app wins (speak) The app they found most to their liking due to its simplicity and the fun surrounding it was the speak application. The criticism was that speak should really be having the letters sound like they do in words. For example, 'M' should be pronounced and not emmm. This would require the fixing of only the sound bytes of single characters. Meshed collaboration extremely shaky, especially with more than 6 users. There was some skepticism as to how well collaboration would work as we seemed unable to get it to work well due to multiple wireless signals. A server was suggested by us to overcome this and other issues (storing of lesson plans for the activities in moodle, backups to prevent local storage problems, ejabberd for collaboration between xos and non-xos.) Sugar on a stick, sugar on Ubuntu not Ready Finally, it was concluded by us after presenting sugar on a stick with the very latest binaries and packages, that, at least on ubuntu, sugar is not ready for even experimental use, as more than 50% of the apps do not work, and networking seems to be broken too. kind Regards, David Van Assche www.nubae.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Getting Involved
+1 On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: How about combining Developer, Web Developer and Administrator into one and adding Educator I think technical people are more clueful about what their skills are and will click through to the next page where we can spell out specific skills and specific tasks. I think we need to be explicitly welcoming to Educators. I think a teacher looking at the current page would not know where to click. Caroline On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: Gary, your work on http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved is TOTALLY AWESOME! Thank you very much for taking care of it. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Getting the message out - take2
Actually, this is really important, I've been asked several times whether development on sugar has been stopped due to the olpc thing... so its definitly a good idea to spread this message David Van Assche On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: [cc += i...@] Here's a revised version integrating some feedback from marketing@: -8--8--8--8--8--8- Does the world know that Sugar Labs is still 100% committed to support Sugar? We got nearly zero press coverage lately, and the only message that everybody got is that OLPC ditched the development of Sugar, and the general mood is pretty negative. Perhaps we should be much louder in telling people about a few facts that would sound surprising outside our small circle and even within it: - Sugar's development infrastructure is now mostly independent of OLPC, thanks to many generous partners (Ivan, OSL, Free Software Foundation, prgmr.com, MIT Media Lab, Solution Groove, Collabora and Develer); - For about 3 months now, Sugar Labs has already been taking care of Sugar development with almost no support from OLPC; - Sugar has not lost any of its full-time core developers as a consequence of OLPC's layoffs. - All of the core team will stay around as unpaid volunteers while we're looking for new ways to finance their full-time contribution; - Today, development of Sugar and activities relies upon 20 active contributors (we actually have 30 user accounts on sunjammer, but some of them don't count as contributors of any kind); - Over the past few months, we have grown our community with new contributors, new partners and new distributors; - The rate of development seems to be increasing steadily as we consolidate our new community driven development model (we can obtain some support evidence from git); - Through the SFC, Sugar Labs is receiving some very generous support (although we're not yet able to credit individual donors); - While we do not plan to hire a development team within Sugar Labs, we're working to get some of our full-time volunteer contributors sponsored by external organizations; - Red Hat and Solutions Groove are contributing with engineering resources and covering traveling expenses for some of our members; - The development cycle is proceeding steadily and 0.84 will be released as planned in March; - We've been working to establish Local Labs, grassroots organizations which, in our mind, will fill up the gap left by OLPC in deployments; It's starting to become clear that 0.84 is where we'll prove our credibility as a self-sufficient, community-driven project. -8--8--8--8--8--8- To the best of my knowledge, all the above corresponds to reality. Can anyone spot any factual mistake I should correct, or things we'd better avoid saying? Am I being exaggeratedly positive anywhere? Anyone who has contacts with local or international press agencies is invited to help us deliver this message effectively. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Education on the XO
Maybe we should try and put together some sort of roadmap and strategy for schools.sugarlabs.org. Perhaps we could schedule an IRC meeting regarding it? kind Regards, David Van Assche On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net wrote: David, I didn't realize that you were the source of the content on schools.sugarlabs.org. Thanks for posting the courses. I also looked at the database of possible sources. A good start on that. I hope that we will have a chance to discuss the infrastructure needs next week in Boston. Tony David Van Assche wrote: Actually there are a whole bunch of examples I uploaded to schools.sugarlabs.org, the problem we have is of how to categorise them. ie... do we put them via subject, via class, via country, via language? The infrastructure needs to be discussed and then agreed upon. That's the main reason why I didn't upload anything else. That and I realised I'm the only one adding anything to the site ;-) That said, the entire Open University content is creative commons, and can be easily ported and there are many sources across the internet that offer moodle material in various languages. I pasted a list of the best curriculum and learning sources on schools.sugarlabs.org. There are enough examples up there for course creators to get an idea of how to create an effective learning course, and even some usable courses (intro to gimp, intro to networking, etc.) Moodle is really quite simple to get the hang off, but like everything else, it requires putting time into it. If there are any course content creators out there, I'd love to hear their ideas, and if they need help with creating courses on the schools.sugarlabs.org site, I believe I can help. I also began creating a database of all the activities so that they can easily be searched for, categorised, etc. but I read that this was being done elsewhere so again, I didn't continue down that avenue, but I'll gladly continue if its of use... kind Regards, David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Bryan Berry br...@olenepal.org wrote: On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 07:31 -0500, Tony Anderson wrote: The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). Thanks for bringing this up Tony. I didn't properly address moodle in my very long article about Karma, a new activity framework for Sugar. Whatever karma or the default activity framework Sugar become, a key element will be easy integration with moodle. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep . ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
