> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 07:59:07 AM PDT, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> On 8/1/23 2:49 AM, Colin Paice wrote:
>> You can have synchronous write - used in same "site" and async -
>> where the remote end is miles away. This is used for media failure.
> Yes. Emphasis on /media/
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica
I think most pre- semiconductor memory including core memory in S/360 was
destructive reads with hardware rewiting the store, so you can certainly
understand using move, not to mention C for Compare instructions had few
1, 2023 11:38 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica
>
> >> Wayne B wrote:
> COBOL MOVE was not intuitive. Should have been PROPOGATE or COPY, COPY was
> already taken I guess.
>
>
> Assembler has the same problem: MVC,
: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica
>> Wayne B wrote:
COBOL MOVE was not intuitive. Should have been PROPOGATE or COPY, COPY was
already taken I guess.
Assembler has the same problem: MVC, MVCL, etc.
Gary Weinhold
Senior Application Architect
DAT
>> Wayne B wrote:
COBOL MOVE was not intuitive. Should have been PROPOGATE or COPY, COPY was
already taken I guess.
Assembler has the same problem: MVC, MVCL, etc.
Gary Weinhold
Senior Application Architect
DATAKINETICS | Data Performance & Optimization
Phone:+1.613.523.5500 x216
Email:
On 8/1/23 2:49 AM, Colin Paice wrote:
Your Copy on Write - may be what I know as dual write - where you
write to different volumes - usually on different dasd subsystems,
so if you lose one dasd subsystem - the data is available on another.
Nope. "Copy on Write" is explicitly what you were
Your Copy on Write - may be what I know as dual write - where you write to
different volumes - usually on different dasd subsystems, so if you lose
one dasd subsystem - the data is available on another.
You can have synchronous write - used in same "site" and async - where the
remote end is miles
arc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2023 10:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica
On 7/31/23 12:45 PM, Colin Paice wrote:
> A volume is a convenient picture - they no longer exist on modern DASD.
ACK
My limited unde
On 7/31/23 12:45 PM, Colin Paice wrote:
A volume is a convenient picture - they no longer exist on modern DASD.
ACK
My limited understanding is that the S/360 or S/370 would probably not
recognize anything in use today as DASD. The S/390 /might/ see
something that vaguely reminds it of
On 1/08/2023 12:16 am, Rick Troth wrote:
But, again, an automount per user does not necessarily mean a
filesystem per user.
Agree... but I was specifically talking about a filesystem per user as a
bad thing. This seems to have become a common thing on z/OS.
--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill
Our site had 3,000 mostly M9s totaling 30 TB. 4 Ess f20 consolidated to
two Ess 800 then 1 EMC Max when I retired.
On Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 10:46 Grant Taylor <
023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> On 7/31/23 6:37 AM, Jay Maynard wrote:
> > It's not just CPU power or number of
A volume is a convenient picture - they no longer exist on modern DASD.
Data is spread across many different PC sized disks.
We have extended volumes which are bigger than traditional volumes. It
gives more space for the same number of volumes.
A "track" is mapped to one PC sized disk, and block
On 7/31/23 9:28 AM, Schmitt, Michael wrote:
MAINFRAME: a computer that is larger than a midrange minicomputer
and smaller than a supercomputer.
Chuckle.
pc < workstation < minicomputer < mainframe < supercomputer
I posit that we should word smith to be "single computer" to rule out
large
On 7/31/23 6:37 AM, Jay Maynard wrote:
It's not just CPU power or number of cores, but the ability to connect
thousands of volumes of data and access them simultaneously, and move
that data from point A to point B efficiently.
Please elaborate, are those volumes separate DASD devices or are
MAINFRAME: a computer that is larger than a midrange minicomputer and smaller
than a supercomputer.
More seriously, http://catb.org/jargon/html/M/mainframe.html refers to
http://catb.org/jargon/html/D/dinosaur.html, which is defined as "Any hardware
requiring raised flooring and special
On 7/31/23 09:09, Dave Jones wrote:
Opps.I was wrong. According to this site
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN_httpd), the first web server at CERN was
indeed written and hosted on a NeXT Computer running NeXTSTEP.
I must have dreamed the part about VM, then.
Thanks for clarifying.
I
On 7/30/23 18:50, Andrew Rowley wrote:
On 30/07/2023 2:28 am, Jon Perryman wrote:
ASK YOURSELF: Name the z/OS Unix feature that sort of fixes the
fundamental design flaw with Unix filesystems just described?
I suspect most people won't think about each user having a unique
filesystem using
Opps.I was wrong. According to this site
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN_httpd), the first web server at CERN was
indeed written and hosted on a NeXT Computer running NeXTSTEP.
I must have dreamed the part about VM, then.
DJ
To me, mainframe denotes one large computer that is expandable to handle
volumes of tasks and data that require hundreds if not thousands of
PC-class systems to handle, with an emphasis on reliability, availability,
and serviceability. It's not just CPU power or number of cores, but the
ability to
IBM's definition of mainframe (Source: DICTIONARY OF IBM & COMPUTING
TERMINOLOGY)
mainframe n. A computer, usually in a computer center, with extensive
capabilities and
resources to which other computers may be connected so that they can share
facilities.
Originally referred to the central
COBOL MOVE was not intuitive. Should have been PROPOGATE or COPY, COPY was
already taken I guess.
On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 1:55 PM Grant Taylor <
023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> On 7/30/23 7:58 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote:
> > They do dynamicaly expand. It's not growing
On 7/30/23 7:58 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote:
They do dynamicaly expand. It's not growing that's the problem though,
it's shrinking - releasing space so that it can be used by another user.
I feel like shrinking is a thing for many file systems. The utility to
shrink may not be included with the
Mainframe - the greatest computer hardware ever developed & continues to be
developed.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, July 30, 2023, 7:36 PM, Paul Gilmartin
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 08:50:39 +1000, Andrew Rowley wrote:
>
>An
On 31/07/2023 9:36 am, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
It mimics the MVS tradition of overallocating datasets. Aren't modern
filesystems virtual and dynamically extensible?
They do dynamicaly expand. It's not growing that's the problem though,
it's shrinking - releasing space so that it can be used by
On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 08:50:39 +1000, Andrew Rowley wrote:
>
>An automounted filesystem per user has always been a terrible idea. I
>think it was given as an example of how you could use automount and
>somehow morphed into a recommendation. (Other OSes can e.g. use
>automount to mount a remote user
On 30/07/2023 2:28 am, Jon Perryman wrote:
ASK YOURSELF: Name the z/OS Unix feature that sort of fixes the fundamental
design flaw with Unix filesystems just described?
I suspect most people won't think about each user having a unique filesystem
using automount to make their filesystem
> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 02:36:12 PM PDT, Rick Troth
> wrote:
> Your inquiry is (understandably) somewhat of a reaction against
> unfortunate trends in public thinking.
IBM doesn't have a definition. I can't define mainframe because the only
distinction I could find is design
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 17:32:54 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
>
>... But it never seemed to me that COBOL statements were any easier to
> learn, or more intuitive, than those of FORTRAN or Basic.
>
In defense of verbosity:
Once in the late 1960s I counseled a physics graduate student who was
I assumed that too (and laughed aloud at the time).
The man who introduced me to computer programming (blessings upon him!) got us
writing code the very first day. I remember him asking us "so you have to
write a program that compares two numbers and tells you which one is greater.
What's
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 01:50:52 PM PDT, Paul Gilmartin
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> However, COBOL can be coded using everyday,
> non-specialized English vocabulary such as "LEVEL 77".
I assume this is sarcasm about problems with Cobol. There are
> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 12:22:22 PM PDT, Bob Bridges
> wrote:
> I reluctantly admit that COBOL has important strengths
> ("reluctant" only because I have a deep dislike of verbosity in coding),
> But there are tasks for which I like PL/1, or VBA, or REXX (or ooRexx), and
> so on.
On 7/30/23 12:42, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:56:08 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
Pretty sure it was CMS.
Do you know the chronology?
When was the CMS(?) based HTTPD created?
Was SFS available at that date? MDFS is a poor fit for HTTP paths.
There were several web servers
Got it, thanks. So the 1600 slots is related to the 1536 ports you
previously mentioned. The problem with that calculation is that you
can't just take the 4 CPC's x 12 fanout slots = 48 I/O drawers. There's
nowhere near enough room for that many drawers - you'd have to stack
about 9 on top
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 12:11:11 -0400, Rick Trot wrote:
>On 7/30/23 11:49, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:38:59 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
>>> 3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that
>>> served out the pages ran on IBM's VM/ESA.
>>>
>> What guest
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:56:08 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
>Pretty sure it was CMS.
>
Do you know the chronology?
When was the CMS(?) based HTTPD created?
Was SFS available at that date? MDFS is a poor fit for HTTP paths.
--
gil
> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 12:18:04 PM PDT, Tom Brennan
> wrote:
> Where does "1,600 PCIe slots" come from?
If I calculated max configurable PCIe slots correctly, 4 CPC drawers * 12 PCIe+
fanout adapters * 2 fanout ports per adapter * 16 PCIe+ slots in each drawer =
1,536 PCIe+ slots.
On 7/30/23 11:49, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:38:59 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that
served out the pages ran on IBM's VM/ESA.
What guest OS?
CMS, which technically is a "guest OS".
-- R; <><
Pretty sure it was CMS.
DJ
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:38:59 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
>
>3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that
>served out the pages ran on IBM's VM/ESA.
>
What guest OS?
--
gil
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe /
While I agree with most of the points made by the original poster, a couple of
nits:
1) zPDT is a software-only toolno special chips or PC boards involved.
2) HTML was inspired by - or evolved from - IBM's GML
3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that
served
On 7/29/23 11:28 AM, Jon Perryman wrote:
Can anyone provide the definition of MAINFRAME? The ARS Technica
article is complete nonsense because the mainframe is a state of
mind and nothing to do with reality. Can anyone prove me wrong?
I tend to agree that mainframe can be a state of mine
I do like PL/1 very much. PL/C (a subset) was the first language I ever
learned, and although I have used lots of others since then I am still
favorably impressed with PL/1's full control over storage.
Unfortunately I haven't written anything in it in a couple decades, so maybe
the golden
Your inquiry is (understandably) somewhat of a reaction against
unfortunate trends in public thinking.
I will respond to them separately. First is triggered by the subject
line: definition of a mainframe.
Your #2 is a miss.
Hardware *does* make a mainframe: channelized I/O
Let me explain.
On Sat, 29 Jul 2023 15:22:10 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:
> Ok, so I'm a software geek, I admit it. But there are tasks for
> which I like PL/1, or VBA, or REXX (or ooRexx), and so on.
>
>"Need"? Maybe not absolutely must have, but they're sure helpful.
>
I thought PL/1 is "The only
Many interesting points here, and even if I were interested in contradicting
them I'm too ignorant of hardware to attempt it. But I will at least say that
I'm very, very glad to have multiple algorithmic languages to write in, not
just COBOL. I reluctantly admit that COBOL has important
Where does "1,600 PCIe slots" come from?
On 7/29/2023 9:28 AM, Jon Perryman wrote:
2. Hardware does not make a mainframe. IBM z16 has PCIe and ram which are also
on every modern motherboard. IBM z16 chooses not to include other hardware
(e.g. SATA, IDE, WIFI and more). Motherboards choose not
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