Re: REXX, Breakfast of Champions [WAS: Programs that work right the first time]

LOL On 8/22/2021 6:43 PM, Steve Horein wrote: That's fine and all, but what does this have to do with the 2020 election, Democrats, and Republicans? On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:39 PM Steve Thompson wrote: My 2 cents. Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge programs

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Actually it was Obama who released all the Taliban, in the trade for the traitor Bergdahl. Get your facts straight. https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/taliban-leader-was-freed-from-guantanamo-in-2014-swap-by-obama/ Joe On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:30 PM Bill Johnson <

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Stop the politics..get enough of it on news BS -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Savor, Thomas Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time. ** EXTERNAL EMAIL -

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Typical Liberal.trying your best to spin it into Trumps fault...all Trump tried to do is get the Afgan folks and the Taliban folks to work out a deal so we could leave and they could live together...but they couldn't agree...so we were still there. I don't remember under Trump cargo planes

Re: REXX, Breakfast of Champions [WAS: Programs that work right the first time]

That's fine and all, but what does this have to do with the 2020 election, Democrats, and Republicans? On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:39 PM Steve Thompson wrote: > My 2 cents. > > Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge > programs that are written in REXX, used in the z/OS

REXX, Breakfast of Champions [WAS: Programs that work right the first time]

My 2 cents. Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge programs that are written in REXX, used in the z/OS world that are maintained via SMP/E. I know that one of them is doing VSAM, and one is doing encryption/decryption and handling of Certificates and gets called

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Trump started the process of leaving Afghanistan. Even released 5000 Taliban including their current leader. We aren't leaving Americans behind. Biden will be president for another 3 1/2 years, unless he falls ill and Kamala takes over. And knowing that probably really gets you going pleases

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

A cousin of mine lived in Atlanta. Correct. On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 07:51:35 PM EDT, Joe Monk wrote: Fulton County is 100% Democrat, just like Maricopa County. Joe On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 6:48 PM Bill Johnson < 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > We know

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Tom believes the election was stolen. Without even 1 incidence of actual proof/facts. My old commie school is run by a trumper currently. Of course not always. For most of its history it was run by normal people who believed in facts and science. On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 08:09:34 PM

Re: Load Library Module Length and Load Macro Module Length different Values

Charles This kind of logic is done with SRB all the time BTW I just tried CSVQUERY and it returned X'4000' as well Wonder how ISPF determines the size -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:04 PM To:

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Don't feed the trolls. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Clifford Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

I would say 1. You can do more in COBOL than assembler in few lines, but is a 100-line COBOL program necessarily more complex than a 100-line assembler program? 2. You probably do have to say that lines of code maps to complexity, but only if you keep the language constant. What is the

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Tell me whats wrong.typical dumbass liberal that doesn't have ANY facts...just that its wrongwhere the fuck is it wrong. School is where YOU went off the rails...nothing but teaching Communism bullshit. Thanks, Tom -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

And where was the fraud ?? of course, Fulton County. The swamp is deep. I don't care who wins anything (well actually I do), but I just want it to be fair. And just because Arizona and Georgia are GOP (the Governors)...not all Counties are...Fulton for sure isn't. Guys, think about

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Dead wrong. Typical trumpette. Back to school. On Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 7:27 PM Savor, Thomas < 0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > "In April 2020, a voter fraud study covering 20 years by the Massachusetts > Institute of Technology found the level of mail-in ballot fraud >

Re: Load Library Module Length and Load Macro Module Length different Values

Not what you asked, but can one MVCL a load module from one address to another and rely on its executing correctly? What about relocatable address constants? (Less necessary today than once upon a time due to LARL, but still lots of them around.) Of course in some case one might know that the load

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Your guy is in-defensible...great job in Afghanistan...superb !!! Not only did we leave a bunch of US citizens there, but left NATO troops there...so Ooooh another Dumbass !!! Biden makes Carter look good...I thought Obozo was bad...Biden is probably going to be removed soon...or at least

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Fulton County is 100% Democrat, just like Maricopa County. Joe On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 6:48 PM Bill Johnson < 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > We know Arizona was fraud, Georgia was fraud. States run by Republicans. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Sunday,

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

We know Arizona was fraud, Georgia was fraud. States run by Republicans. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 7:27 PM, Savor, Thomas <0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: "In April 2020, a voter fraud study covering 20 years by the Massachusetts

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Ooooh, another trumper. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 7:42 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: *I knew I’d trigger the trumpers here.* Trolls have that effect. On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson < 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > I

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

*I knew I’d trigger the trumpers here.* Trolls have that effect. On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 9:38 AM Bill Johnson < 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > I knew I’d trigger the trumpers here. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 7:27 PM, Savor,

Re: Load Library Module Length and Load Macro Module Length different Values

The doc says extinfo would match that returned from CSVQUERY Ok thanks I’ll give it a shot > On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Attila Fogarasi wrote: > > Program objects with NOPACK option return the length as a page multiple -- > matching your result. You have to use CSVQUERY to get the actual

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

I knew I’d trigger the trumpers here. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 7:27 PM, Savor, Thomas <0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: "In April 2020, a voter fraud study covering 20 years by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found the level

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Number of lines of code is a meaningless measure. In PL/1 : MASSIVE_STRUCTURE = '' ; /* 2,000 FIELDS DECIMAL, BINARY, CHAR, FLOAT */ ASSEMBLER: Quite a few MVC instructions and lots of initial DCs COBOL : MOVE ZERO TO OUT-BLAH MOVE SPACES TO OUT-BLAH_CHAR1 ad nauseum... On Mon, Aug 23,

Re: Load Library Module Length and Load Macro Module Length different Values

Program objects with NOPACK option return the length as a page multiple -- matching your result. You have to use CSVQUERY to get the actual length after the LOAD. On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 9:06 AM Joseph Reichman wrote: > Hi > > > > I have a number of programs I am trying to move to CSA towards

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.

"In April 2020, a voter fraud study covering 20 years by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found the level of mail-in ballot fraud "exceedingly rare" since it occurs only in "0.6 percent" of instances nationally, and, in one state, "0.04 percent - about five times less likely

Load Library Module Length and Load Macro Module Length different Values

Hi I have a number of programs I am trying to move to CSA towards this end I need to know the starting address and length of the load module Here is the code I use to obtain the length as register 1 low order 3 bytes has the length in double words SLL R1,8 Get Rid of auth code SLL

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

The number of lines of code is absolutely a good way to determine complexity. To say otherwise is silly. Is it a 100% correlation, of course not. Reminds me of people who say that elections are fraudulent and point to the handful of voter fraud incidents when the reality is, voter fraud is in

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 19:49, Bill Johnson wrote: > You claim to know of a 1 line APL super complex program but when > asked to prove it can’t. What I actually said was: "A good case in point is that in APL a useful program can be written in one line." I /did not/ say that I knew of a

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Any programming language can be complex. The problems I’ve had to solve in my 40 year career were far more complex as a programmer than as a SP, DBA, DASD Admin, Security Admin.  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:40 PM, David Spiegel wrote: Hi Bill, I

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Hi Bill, I understood that you were defending IBM patents and thank you for the compliment. Why, though, do you think that COBOL programs with Database calls can be complex, when the languages I mentioned are more "dense" (i.e. logic per keystroke) with or without the Database calls? (PL/I

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

I have coded PL/I but thanks. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:17 PM, Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: Dude, you can’t even figure out I’m on YOUR side. When I posted a few months back regarding IBM patents, a whole bunch of

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

+1 On 2021-08-22 15:05, Eric D Rossman wrote: Bill, no need to get defensive. I have written z/OS and Linux (multiple platform) internals and also user-facing code. Guess which one is harder? Rhetorical question. Both are really hard to do well. z/OS internals are notoriously under-commented

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Dude, you can’t even figure out I’m on YOUR side. When I posted a few months back regarding IBM patents, a whole bunch of listers bashed me and claimed most of IBMs patents were worthless. I’m impressed that you have patented code. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021,

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Hi Bill, Are you just a troll, or, are you really that impolite/ignorant? My Rexx patented program was reviewed by the US Patent office and I was required to defend it against 5 others. It took 9 calendar months from the start of application until granting of patent. There are reasons why IBM

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Been there, done that. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 3:05 PM, Eric D Rossman wrote: Bill, no need to get defensive. I have written z/OS and Linux (multiple platform) internals and also user-facing code. Guess which one is harder? Rhetorical question. Both are

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Again correct. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 3:31 PM, Eric D Rossman wrote: Anyone who is writing something brand new and NOT referring to other working models (similar code chunks) is wasting their time. No one can keep everything in mind at once, especially

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Exactly right. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:04 PM, Gerhard Adam wrote: It simply seems that most of the comments demonstrate that most posters have no idea what they are doing. (1)  Programs are not complex, problems are.  If the program is complex and the

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Bob wrote “ A few of us (including me) posted "I once wrote a 30-line program that worked right the first time", and what you heard is "am I not amazing, wonderful, brilliant?  Do you not all admire me?"  Is that what happened?” I hear the second part every day on the IBMlist. Sent from Yahoo

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

It simply seems that most of the comments demonstrate that most posters have no idea what they are doing. (1) Programs are not complex, problems are. If the program is complex and the problem is not, then you don't know what you are doing. (2) Programming is not intended to show how smart

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Worked right means what? Syntactically? Or performed exactly as you expected on input you controlled or knew what was in it? I’ve spent 40 years in ALL aspects of IT. I was an Ops manager once and used to get resumes from people who claimed to be Mainframe Computer Operators. Most didn’t know

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Bill, I don't understand what could have pushed your buttons. For instance: BJ> Comparing a 40 line REXX/CLIST “program” to a 10,000 line IMS/COBOL program that scans a parts database is an absolute joke. But the only one making that comparison is you. (Maybe that's why you were the only one

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Anyone who is writing something brand new and NOT referring to other working models (similar code chunks) is wasting their time. No one can keep everything in mind at once, especially once you start talking about truly complex beasts. NB: I'm assuming your question is not necessarily limited

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Bill, no need to get defensive. I have written z/OS and Linux (multiple platform) internals and also user-facing code. Guess which one is harder? Rhetorical question. Both are really hard to do well. z/OS internals are notoriously under-commented and under-understood (I wanted to make up a

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

I like to tell my younger colleagues that I am disappointed when my code works correctly the first time. No bugs to hunt down? Where’s the fun in that?  On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 14:49 Bill Johnson < 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > You claim to know of a 1 line APL

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

You claim to know of a 1 line APL super complex program but when asked to prove it can’t. I get out of bed on the same side every day.  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 2:21 PM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 18:43, Bill Johnson wrote: > Anyone who

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

No bee in my bonnet. Just don’t like braggarts. What is more complex? The developers who wrote zOS or the installation? The programs I wrote over my programming days were much more complex than anything I’ve written in my SP days. And I’ve written REXX & CLIST. Not all that hard. Sent from

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 18:43, Bill Johnson wrote: > Anyone who writes a compiler or assembler is quite complex. And very > likely thousands of lines of code that took years to develop. More than just a few thousand, I'd expect, unless it's very-table-driven. > More in line with the COBOL

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

I could write a million line program that does nothing.  Not what my references were, so a straw man argument. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 6:09 AM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 02:51, Bill Johnson wrote: > “Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Anyone who writes a compiler or assembler is quite complex. And very likely thousands of lines of code that took years to develop. More in line with the COBOL programs I was referencing. Not some 40 line REXX program that took a day or two. In College, I wrote an ATM machine. It took the entire

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

I seem to remember IBM listers poo pooing patents when I pointed out IBM leads the world in patents every year. Comparing a 40 line REXX/CLIST “program” to a 10,000 line IMS/COBOL program that scans a parts database is an absolute joke. Patent or not. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On

Re: Modifying block size of LTO5 drive

It's all new tape so it's fine to change On Sun, 22 Aug, 2021, 8:37 pm Mike Schwab, wrote: > Recommended block size is 256K or greater, to 8M. > Changing the block size will loose all existing data on THAT tape, > printed page number 28. > >

Re: Modifying block size of LTO5 drive

Recommended block size is 256K or greater, to 8M. Changing the block size will loose all existing data on THAT tape, printed page number 28. https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19190-01/LTO5_Vol2_E2_not_restricted/LTO5_Vol2_E2_not_restricted.pdf On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 10:51 AM Jake Anderson wrote: > >

Modifying block size of LTO5 drive

Hello I am just trying to understand if we can modify the block size of LT05 drive. Currently it is having a block size of 80k and Is it possible to modify to 256k block size ? Jake -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Interesting! Sounds like if it happened to any of us, it only happened once. Mine was a program where I copied the basics (CSECT, etc.) and then wrote about 30 new lines and was blown away when it not only assembled but ran as planned. It was something ad-hoc probably for a one-time run,

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Mine was much more trivial. It was back in college. I was getting my degree in Accounting; I thought programming sounded boring, but I should know something about it so I signed up for one class. Rather than talk about theory, our teacher set us to work writing simple programs in PL/C the

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Once only since 1980. And this was back about 1985 when we wrote out our programs on paper sheets and the key-punch group put them on diskette. (Once in the system, we did have a basic editor to fix things.) It was not a 'small' program, but also not a 'large' program. It was in Cobol. Of

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

Hi Bill, "... "Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and similar types of languages is hardly programming. ..." Maybe you should tell that to the US Patent Office in Washington, DC. They can then invalidate my patent retroactively. Please see: https://patents.justia.com/patent/8261255 Regards, David

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 02:51, Bill Johnson wrote: > “Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and similar types of languages is hardly > programming. Real programming is hundreds or thousands of lines of > COBOL, with IMS, DB2, or CICS calls. So... if someone writes a compiler or assembler, or a whole OS

Re: Which way is up? (was: COBOL and LE version)

On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 14:10:18 -0500 Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: :>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 10:11:14 -0700, Tom Ross wrote: >... :>>LE is both upward and downward compatible as long as the z/OS levels are :>>in service. There are some restrictions, ...

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

While that may have been much more important in the days of cards and 24 hour turnaround, nowadays it is a waste of human time to deck check the program over and over again when the computer can do it faster and more effectively. On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 21:30:58 -0400 Bob Bridges wrote: :>This part

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

+1 On 2021-08-22 02:52, Seymour J Metz wrote: What is an application with thousands of lines of REXX code, chopped liver? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Re: Programs that work right the first time.

What is an application with thousands of lines of REXX code, chopped liver? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bill Johnson

Re: even an old mainframer can do it

There was scripting in MVS long before MVS-OE. The problem isn't that he's doing scripting, the provlem is that he wrote a blivit. Please don't judge ither Python or scripting in general based on that sample. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz