Dear Behcet,
Can you please check the confirmation you received when you made your
reservation. There were a number of rates available with different terms, when
I contacted the MECC booking service and they indicated you booked the rate
which is non-refundable. This means you received a
On May 18, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
Hi,
I noticed that IETF 78 Hotel that I made reservation already
charged my credit card for the whole duration of my stay.
Charged, or authorized ? (In the authorized case, the charge will
generally show up as pending.)
Its all about money, but not necessarily the fees.
The cabs in most parts of the US are run through a licensed monopoly
scheme which is frequently corrupt. In NYC the guy who drives the cab
gets a pittance while the medallions sell for huge sums. Raising taxi
fares does not improve the pay of the
(subject line adjusted -- this has long ago ceased to be
Maastricht-specific in any way)
--On Tuesday, May 18, 2010 13:11 -0400 Phillip Hallam-Baker
hal...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Mandating credit card acceptance should in theory merely
reduce the amount the rent that the medallion owners can
Hi,
I noticed that IETF 78 Hotel that I made reservation already
charged my credit card for the whole duration of my stay.
Charged, or authorized ? (In the authorized case, the charge will
generally show up as pending.)
I saw it as a fixed charge in my credit card statement not as
/18/2010 02:55:24 PM:
[image removed]
Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
Behcet Sarikaya
to:
Marshall Eubanks
05/18/2010 02:55 PM
Sent by:
ietf-boun...@ietf.org
Cc:
IETF Discussion
Please respond to Behcet Sarikaya
Hi,
I noticed that IETF 78
On May 10, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Steven Bellovin wrote:
On May 10, 2010, at 11:54 52AM, Bob Braden wrote:
Is there no bottom to this particular rat hole? Enough, already!
We first have to discuss if the credit cards have to be in ASCII vs. HTML or
PDF.
There you have it, folks: clear
On 10.05.2010 18:44, Steven Bellovin wrote:
On May 10, 2010, at 11:54 52AM, Bob Braden wrote:
Is there no bottom to this particular rat hole? Enough, already!
We first have to discuss if the credit cards have to be in ASCII vs. HTML or
PDF.
Even cab drivers nowadays know that the
On 10 mei 2010, at 5:01, ty...@mit.edu wrote:
I talked to a cab driver in Boston, and he's not very happy with
credit cards, because he was forced to use a new system for credit
cards, and it takes what he considered an unfairly large percentage
when customers pay by credit cards.
And that's
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:05:52AM +0200, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
On 10 mei 2010, at 5:01, ty...@mit.edu wrote:
I talked to a cab driver in Boston, and he's not very happy with
credit cards, because he was forced to use a new system for credit
cards, and it takes what he considered an
On May 10, 2010, at 5:05 52AM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
On 10 mei 2010, at 5:01, ty...@mit.edu wrote:
I talked to a cab driver in Boston, and he's not very happy with
credit cards, because he was forced to use a new system for credit
cards, and it takes what he considered an unfairly
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 5:05 AM, Iljitsch van Beijnum
iljit...@muada.com wrote:
On 10 mei 2010, at 5:01, ty...@mit.edu wrote:
I talked to a cab driver in Boston, and he's not very happy with
credit cards, because he was forced to use a new system for credit
cards, and it takes what he
I think it's really all about the credit card fees. Cab drivers, at least in
the US, are often on a small enough margin, with high fixed costs, that the few
percent taken by the card companies can be the difference between a worthwhile
and a wasted fare. Next time a cabbie doesn't want your
On May 10, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote:
I think it's really all about the credit card fees. Cab drivers, at
least in the US, are often on a small enough margin, with high fixed
costs, that the few percent taken by the card companies can be the
difference between a
On Mon, 10 May 2010, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
On 10 mei 2010, at 5:01, ty...@mit.edu wrote:
I talked to a cab driver in Boston, and he's not very happy with
credit cards, because he was forced to use a new system for credit
cards, and it takes what he considered an unfairly large
Is there no bottom to this particular rat hole? Enough, already!
Bob Braden
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On May 10, 2010, at 11:54 52AM, Bob Braden wrote:
Is there no bottom to this particular rat hole? Enough, already!
We first have to discuss if the credit cards have to be in ASCII vs. HTML or
PDF.
--Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
I traveled through Schipol last January. My Visa debit card (with PIN) worked
at the human counter with the PIN Cards Only sign. It was later refused at a
different station, but I think that was a matter of an untrained attendant more
than a technology failure. (He expected a chip.)
On May 9,
On 8 mei 2010, at 1:50, Glen Zorn wrote:
More than once, I _have_ asked the driver specifically if he accepts credit
cards (the advertised policy notwithstanding) only to have him refuse it
upon arrival...
Curious way to engage in commerce. Where was this?
BTW:
I'm typing this from Schiphol
Iljitsch van Beijnum [mailto:iljit...@muada.com] writes:
On 8 mei 2010, at 1:50, Glen Zorn wrote:
More than once, I _have_ asked the driver specifically if he accepts
credit
cards (the advertised policy notwithstanding) only to have him refuse
it
upon arrival...
Curious way to
I have had cab drivers in the US try to force me to pay cash
in similar situations. Saying they don't accept credit cards and
then, when I say that's all I have, telling me how much longer
it will take to get me out of their cab if I really want to use
a credit card. In these cases I just kept
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 06:31:14PM -0700, Dan Harkins wrote:
I have had cab drivers in the US try to force me to pay cash
in similar situations. Saying they don't accept credit cards and
then, when I say that's all I have, telling me how much longer
it will take to get me out of their cab
Joe,
You should have asked when you got in; many cabs in the US (in most
cities I've traveled to, and all the ones I've used at LAX where I
reside) do take credit cards.
The cab had a sign that said they take credit cards. Just that in the
end, that didn't turn out to be a true
Hi, Jari,
Individual shop owners (and cab drivers) can always do what they want
(anywhere), even when the company they work for accepts cards.
As I noted, you can ask before you get into the cab.
Though I agree with your recommendation that backup cash is always
useful -- in any city.
Joe
Hi, Jari,
Individual shop owners (and cab drivers) can always do what they want
(anywhere), even when the company they work for accepts cards.
As I noted, you can ask before you get into the cab.
More than once, I _have_ asked the driver specifically if he accepts credit
cards (the
Theodore Tso wrote:
...
This was my experience as well (I travel a lot, to many countries in
Europe and Asia, and have never had a problem until I travelled to the
Netherlands last year) --- except my ATM card didn't work, either. When
I talked to my bank, they told me it was because of
Jari Arkko wrote:
Phillip,
This is the main change from the US. In the US it is entirely
practical to carry only plastic and no cash at all.
This is mostly right, but maybe not universally true. Imagine my
surprise when I walked to a cab at LAX and asked to be taken to the
Anaheim
Phillip,
This is the main change from the US. In the US it is entirely
practical to carry only plastic and no cash at all.
This is mostly right, but maybe not universally true. Imagine my
surprise when I walked to a cab at LAX and asked to be taken to the
Anaheim hotel. First, I had
On Apr 2, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Ralph Droms wrote:
So, with all this discussion, I'm still not clear what to expect.
When I walk up to a train ticket kiosk in Schiphol, should I expect
to be able to use my US-issued, non-chip credit card (AMEX, VISA - I
don't care as long as *one* of them
Theodore Tso allegedly wrote on 04/03/2010 06:48 EDT:
When I talked to my bank, they told me it was because of
fraud problems in that country specifically; I would have needed to
warn them at least a few days in advance i was planning on visiting
the Netherlands for them to put my card on a
Last time I was there you could *not* use a non-chip credit card
at the train kiosks, but you could use a non-chip card in general
at manned stores/vendors.
At 09:35 AM 4/5/2010, Scott Brim wrote:
Theodore Tso allegedly wrote on 04/03/2010 06:48 EDT:
When I talked to my bank, they told me it
On 4/5/2010 5:40 PM, Mike Tibodeau wrote:
Last time I was there you could *not* use a non-chip credit card
at the train kiosks, but you could use a non-chip card in general
at manned stores/vendors.
During last year I had no any problem with usage of Visa and Mastercard
non-chip credit and
This is the main change from the US. In the US it is entirely
practical to carry only plastic and no cash at all. There are more
purchases that are impossible with cash than a card - try buying a car
with cash and see what happens.
In most of Europe you have a high probability of being able to
I had the same experience last summer. Lacking euros, I needed to find a
teller to get on the train at Schipol.
Tim
On 4/5/10 9:40 AM, Mike Tibodeau tibod...@cisco.com wrote:
Last time I was there you could *not* use a non-chip credit card
at the train kiosks, but you could use a non-chip
On Apr 2, 2010, at 6:46 PM, Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
Not to belabor this thread, but...
I was in Schiphol the week before IETF Anaheim and bought a train ticket.
*None* of the my cards worked (Amex, Visa, Mastercard, and a debit, and yes I
tried all of them). In fact, not only did they not
I'm with Joe on this. I also travel extensively, including in
non-tourist areas, and have never had my US Visa or Mastercard
declined because it didn't have a chip.
Cheers,
Andy
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Joe Abley jab...@hopcount.ca wrote:
On 2010-03-31, at 20:56, Phillip Hallam-Baker
, April 02, 2010 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
I'm with Joe on this. I also travel extensively, including in
non-tourist areas, and have never had my US Visa or Mastercard
declined because it didn't have a chip.
Cheers,
Andy
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Joe Abley
On 02.04.2010 14:44, Adrian Farrel wrote:
Well,
I was living in France in spring 2005 when the chip and pin systems went
live there.
There was a very short period where cards without chip and pin did not
work.
Two days later, facing the inability to take money from foreigners,
On Apr 2, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
I'm with Joe on this. I also travel extensively, including in
non-tourist areas, and have never had my US Visa or Mastercard
declined because it didn't have a chip.
At Point of Sale (e.g., restaurants, hotels, stores), no.
At automated
Hi,
I was living in France in spring 2005 when the chip and pin systems went
live there.
There was a very short period where cards without chip and pin did not
work.
Two days later, facing the inability to take money from foreigners,
signature-based transactions were back.
Sometimes
On Fri, 2 Apr 2010, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
On Apr 2, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
I'm with Joe on this. I also travel extensively, including in
non-tourist areas, and have never had my US Visa or Mastercard
declined because it didn't have a chip.
At Point of Sale (e.g.,
Andrew G. Malis пишет:
I'm with Joe on this. I also travel extensively, including in
non-tourist areas, and have never had my US Visa or Mastercard
declined because it didn't have a chip.
In Amsterdam there are shops (e.g. nice cheese shop ;) ) which accept
only local chip cards.
At the same
What Iljitsch doesn't say, and should be said, is that Maastricht is a
lovely and charming place in the summer; its central square is one of the
nicer places in Europe to linger over lunch or dinner.
When I went I rented a car in Frankfurt and enjoyed the Autobahn experience.
Not a complicated
On 4/2/2010 12:18 PM, Yoav Nir wrote:
Yes, but we have already concluded that lunch time is not 1.5 hours
spent on going to some restaurant in lovely and charming places.
Lunch is the 1.5-hour session, dedicated to bar BoFs with a sandwich
to eat, in one of the regular meeting rooms.
I
So, with all this discussion, I'm still not clear what to expect.
When I walk up to a train ticket kiosk in Schiphol, should I expect to
be able to use my US-issued, non-chip credit card (AMEX, VISA - I
don't care as long as *one* of them works), or should I have a fistful
of Euros handy?
On Apr 2, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Ralph Droms wrote:
So, with all this discussion, I'm still not clear what to expect.
When I walk up to a train ticket kiosk in Schiphol, should I expect
to be able to use my US-issued, non-chip credit card (AMEX, VISA - I
don't care as long as *one* of them
Yes. Expect them to work and bring cash!
That said, some of us with American cards will be arriving the Tuesday
before. I'll post the results of our travels and trials .
Chris.
--
Chris Elliott
On Apr 2, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Ralph Droms rdroms.i...@gmail.com wrote:
So, with all this
Ralph,
On Apr 2, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Ralph Droms wrote:
So, with all this discussion, I'm still not clear what to expect. When I
walk up to a train ticket kiosk in Schiphol, should I expect to be able to
use my US-issued, non-chip credit card (AMEX, VISA - I don't care as long as
*one* of
hand they have excellent licorice and hagelslag. :)
-Original Message-
From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Ralph Droms
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 4:56 PM
To: IETF Discussion
Subject: Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht
So, with all
On 4/2/2010 3:46 PM, Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
p.s. on the other hand they have excellent licorice and hagelslag. :)
You could pay with licorice?
Did they make change with fennel?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
___
-Original Message-
From: Dave CROCKER [mailto:d...@dcrocker.net]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:02 PM
To: Hadriel Kaplan
On 4/2/2010 3:46 PM, Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
p.s. on the other hand they have excellent licorice and hagelslag. :)
You could pay with licorice?
Did they
In theory it is possible to use a US issued credit card in Europe.
In practice, forget it unless you are willing to face the
embarrassment of 50% of places declining your card.
My experience in the UK is that outside London you are very likely to
find that the only cards they accept are chip and
On 1 apr 2010, at 2:56, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
In theory it is possible to use a US issued credit card in Europe.
In practice, forget it unless you are willing to face the
embarrassment of 50% of places declining your card.
:-)
What you have to remember is that in many European
On 2010-03-31, at 20:56, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
In theory it is possible to use a US issued credit card in Europe.
In practice, forget it unless you are willing to face the
embarrassment of 50% of places declining your card.
My experience in the UK is that outside London you are
On 3/30/2010 9:09 PM, Dean Willis wrote:
On Mar 30, 2010, at 4:55 AM, Robert Kisteleki wrote:
On 2010.03.30. 11:41, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the
transition status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are no
early
Dear folks,
Please be advised that a special IETF 78 host website is available that
already contains quite some information and practicalities:
http://www.ietf78.nl/.
More information will be added as it becomes available.
If you are missing specific things, or have any other concerns, please
On 30 mrt 2010, at 10:15, Marco Davids (Prive) wrote:
http://www.ietf78.nl/.
Ok, one thing: I strongly recommend AGAINST purchasing any _Dutch_ train
tickets before you travel. (This does not apply to international train tickets!)
The Nethelands is currently making a transition from paper
On 2010.03.30. 11:41, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the
transition status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are no
early booking / online booking discounts for Dutch train tickets, and
buying online with Dutch Railways
That reminds me: if you intend to use a credit card in electronic contexts
(such as buying train tickets at a machine, etc.), you should make sure you
know your PIN code. On the way home from Anaheim I helped some guy who had
some problems because he wasn't even aware that his card had a PIN
The PIN codes issued by US banks are for cash advances only, they are
NOT the required PIN code that European credit cards use and won't
work if you try to use them for a regular credit card payment. US
cards do not (in general) require a PIN code for credit card payments.
Ole
Ole J. Jacobsen
Again, for US cards, these PIN codes apply to either ATM cards or for
credit card cash advances (using your credit card as an [expensive]
ATM card).
Ole
Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail:
Ole Jacobsen пишет:
The PIN codes issued by US banks are for cash advances only, they are
NOT the required PIN code that European credit cards use and won't
work if you try to use them for a regular credit card payment. US
cards do not (in general) require a PIN code for credit card payments.
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:37:17AM +, Michael Dillon wrote:
Not sure if this applies to Americans, but when I lived in Canada, I
had a 5 or 6 digit pin
code
I don't know about other banks, but I used to have a 6 digit PIN with
the Royal Bank of Canada. They made me change it a couple
I'd recommend telling your bank and your credit card issuers that you are
planning on traveling to The Netherlands at least a week or two in advance.
My ATM card and two of my credit cards had a policy last year of declining all
charges from that country due to large amounts of ATM/credit
OV-chipkaart logo is already seen on some ticket machines, so I would
be glad to get an advice where and how these chipkaarts can be bought
and where it can be used except for train tickets purchase.
Have a look at http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/?taal=en. Maybe the
iet...@sidn.nl can
On 2010-03-30, at 09:49, Theodore Tso wrote:
I'd recommend telling your bank and your credit card issuers that you are
planning on traveling to The Netherlands at least a week or two in advance.
I'd recommend that someone creates the 78-attendees list right now, so that all
this list
On 30 mrt 2010, at 15:39, Basil Dolmatov wrote:
OV-chipkaart logo is already seen on some ticket machines, so I would be
glad to get an advice where and how these chipkaarts can be bought and
where it can be used except for train tickets purchase.
(Plural of chipkaart is chipkaarten, or use
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
The chipkaart costs 7,50 euros but the train trip between Schiphol and
Maastricht is 5,85 euros cheaper with the chipkaart than with a paper ticket so
you still come out ahead. You can get one from the ticket machines I believe
but it probably
When you pay with _credit_card_ to Dutch railway ticket machines you
will be asked to enter PIN code ...
European credit cards have an embedded chip that does a crypto
handshake using your PIN with the bank to validate the transaction.
This process is known in English as chip+pin and is
This is only true for EUROPEAN issued credit cards (some of which have
chips and some which don't). You can get a PIN for your US credit
card, but it will NOT work for credit card purchases, only as your PIN
for cash advances (like an ATM card). There is no PIN required when
using US-based
I'm not sure I understand what problem we're solving by setting up IETF
meeting-specific mailing lists each time. It's not like most of the
attendees at IETF 77 weren't at at least one meeting in the previous year,
and if there is a population on earth that we should expect to be able to
Spencer,
This practice was started because the main IETF list got flooded with
messages like where is the nearest Apple store? once we were onsite
and this annoyed the folks who weren't actually at the meeting. Having
it (opt-in) on a per-meeting basis makes sense to me, if we create the
list
Hi, Ole,
I'm still having coherency problems after IETF 77 - sorry.
What I was wondering wasn't why there is an attendees list (I remember the
where is the nearest Apple store discussions that resulted in current
practice).
What I'm wondering is why we continue to set up 76attendees,
I live in Germany, and I had ordered all the Credit cards (Master and Visa)
which I used during 1994-2008 explicitly _without_ PIN -- because I did _NOT_
want them to be usable to draw cash from an ATM, only for signature
based transactions. Going into a bank and obtaining cash
with card,
I have never seen a credit card purchase with PIN.
In the UK, all credit card purchases use a PIN with Chip-and-PIN cards
except when their network link is down or your card is registered as
signature-only. Some elderly and disabled people have the signature-only
option, and foreigners too, of
I think they have changed that now, and my latest debit card came
with a notice that it can be used PIN-free for purchases under 10 pounds.
This uses the RFID in the card and only works at retailers like
Caffe Nero, who have installed the RFID readers.
Adding to the confusion, although there are
On Mar 30, 2010, at 4:55 AM, Robert Kisteleki wrote:
On 2010.03.30. 11:41, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the
transition status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are
no
early booking / online booking discounts for Dutch
- Original Message -
From: Chris Elliott chell...@pobox.com
To: Richard Barnes rbar...@bbn.com
Cc: IAOC i...@ietf.org; Iljitsch van Beijnum iljit...@muada.com;
IETF-Discussion Discussion ietf@ietf.org
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78
On Mar 29, 2010, at 00:56, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
From Frankfurt it is (of course) faster to take a high speed train, and from
Paris it's the only option. The downside of high speed trains is that you
can't just hop on like on a regular train, you need to book or reserve a
seat on a
On 29/03/2010 04:37, Michael Richardson wrote:
Richard == Richard Barnesrbar...@bbn.com writes:
The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city
center, where the restaurants are.
Richard IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht,
Richard
Note: I unintentionally wrote off some German airports that _may_ be suitable
for travel to Maastricht, such as Cologne/Köln. But be careful with any of the
smaller airports in the region, check ground transportation before you book or
you may be in for nasty surprises.
On 29 mrt 2010, at
On Mar 29, 2010, at 12:05, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
suitable for travel to Maastricht, such as Cologne/Köln
More useful from, say, the US (often surprisingly inexpensive), and quite
reasonably connected to Maastricht: Duesseldorf (DUS).
I'd probably look for BRU, DUS, AMS, FRA (in that
On 29/03/2010 12:05, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
In Maastricht the situation will be different from both: because it's a small
city, public transport isn't very high frequency / high capacity, but we'll
be within walking distance of the city center,
There are 3 bus-lines passing by the MECC,
In Vienna there were lots of semi-open-air restaurants along the Danube,
very close to the meeting site. I remember particularly good fried
sardines- something I rarely find in the US.
Janet
ietf-boun...@ietf.org wrote on 03/29/2010 06:05:47 AM:
[image removed]
Re: Advance travel info
For what it's worth...
I wasn't in Dublin, so I don't know the issue there.
Was the problem like in Vienna?
For me, the issue in Dublin wasn't that there were no places to eat, but
that there were very few places to eat, and they were small, and we filled
them up. I could walk, eat lunch,
[Added IAOC]
Iljitsch: Thanks very much for this information. I was not aware of
this:
The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city center,
where the restaurants are.
IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht, with it being
historic, nice city center and
Richard == Richard Barnes rbar...@bbn.com writes:
The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city
center, where the restaurants are.
Richard IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht,
Richard with it being historic, nice city center and all.
On 29.03.2010 04:37, Michael Richardson wrote:
Richard == Richard Barnesrbar...@bbn.com writes:
The MECC conference center is 2 - 3 kilometers from the city
center, where the restaurants are.
Richard IAOC: I had been getting used to the idea of Maastricht,
Richard
Richard,
The site for the IETF in Dublin was easily an order of magnitude
farther from the city center than the MECC.
Google Maps lists several restaurants in the 2-3km range walking.
That's doable even by an overweight out-of-shape American like me with
the normal 1.5 hours for lunch.
I wasn't in Dublin, so I don't know the issue there.
Was the problem like in Vienna?
I have to say, that I didn't find Vienna a problem at all.
There was a great mass transit system, and a two minute train
trip to all the restaurants in the centre of town.
I don't often stay at the venue
Chris Elliott wrote:
Google Maps lists several restaurants in the 2-3km range walking. That's
doable even by an overweight out-of-shape American like me with the
normal 1.5 hours for lunch. Would do me good to spend more time walking
than eating.
During meetings I appreciate opportunities
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