subject:"Re\: \[Koha\-devel\] To React or not to React"

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-22 Thread Julian Maurice

On 22/09/2016 14:56, Owen Leonard wrote:
> - How does using React affect translations?
> 
> My impression from looking at React examples online (and from Bug
> 17297) is that React JS very often includes HTML markup in a way which
> would be too cumbersome to manage with the way we handle
> internationalization in JavaScript at this time. The volume of strings
> which would have to be defined in the templates would be unmanageable.

I don't know React, but it looks like this particular problem can be
solved by bug 15395. It allows (among other things) strings defined in
.js files to be translatable.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15395

-- 
Julian Maurice 
BibLibre
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-22 Thread Owen Leonard

Sorry folks, but this is pretty long.

> That said, I think it’s a shame that Koha has no priorities. I also want
> Koha to be the fastest, slickest most useful ILS in the world, but I think
> more collaboration and cooperation would help ensure that.

For companies to collaborate and cooperate requires time spent away
from solving specific customer problems. My impression is that most
Koha support companies don't feel they have the ability to spare that
time. I do think this discussion is a good opportunity for some
cooperation on deciding a possible new direction of front-end
development.

This conversation is getting way off track, so let's try to get back
to the point. Is React something we want to add to the Koha staff
client in a way that will lead to its being a new standard for the way
we do JavaScript--in particular, as I understand it, DOM manipulation.

I'm still very new to React, but it sounds like one of its main
strengths is that is designed to be very fast when it comes to
changing elements on the page. React could be used instead of jQuery
for a lot of page manipulation operations but wouldn't necessarily
replace jQuery altogether. React wouldn't replace the JavaScript
widgets like menus and modals which Bootstrap supplies unless someone
decided to rewrite those components in React, or to replace them with
existing React-based versions of them.

What are some questions which need to be answered before we can decide
how to proceed? I propose:

- How does using React affect translations?

My impression from looking at React examples online (and from Bug
17297) is that React JS very often includes HTML markup in a way which
would be too cumbersome to manage with the way we handle
internationalization in JavaScript at this time. The volume of strings
which would have to be defined in the templates would be unmanageable.

- How does React affect the way we handle JavaScript dependencies now?

React requires compilation. If we're going to add a compilation step
for JavaScript assets, why not incorporate that into a process of
building front-end assets that includes minification and concatenation
of other JS and CSS assets. Is there something inherent to React which
can improve the way we manage JS assets? If we say yes to React we are
saying yes to Node.js as a developer dependency and yes to
incorporating a build process into front-end development (which we
have already done for the OPAC with LESS, but which was very
controversial when I proposed using Grunt/Gulp).

- Will we have enough of a consensus on React that it will be adopted
by most if not all developers who want to be doing DOM manipulation
with JavaScript?

If we start using a tool which few developers want to or have the time
to learn, the contributions to Koha which use React will be come
unmaintainable if the React expert(s) leave.

- What is the "global" picture, in the staff client, for how React
will be used? What is the big picture, and will there be a commitment
to getting that big picture implemented?

Thanks for reading,

   Owen

-- 
Web Developer
Athens County Public Libraries
https://www.myacpl.org
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread David Cook

Tomas: Fair enough about it being a POC so not showing how to translate it. I 
was just concerned that it would make translation more difficult, but it looks 
like that concern was baseless : ).

 

Kyle: Well, I think I’m mostly persuaded. 

 

That said, I think it’s a shame that Koha has no priorities. I also want Koha 
to be the fastest, slickest most useful ILS in the world, but I think more 
collaboration and cooperation would help ensure that. I think that’s what folk 
were trying to do with that roadmap idea a while back. I don’t think  
<https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roadmap_for_Koha> 
https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roadmap_for_Koha has been updated in about 
1.5 years though. I suppose it says it’s a memorandum of intent rather than a 
strategic plan. 

 

While I’m not saying that DSpace has it entirely right, they seem to be a lot 
more strategic in their planning. They introduced a REST API 3 years ago. They 
have (optional) SPARQL endpoints in their latest version. That said, DSpace is 
a less complex application, and it has a smaller core team which makes reaching 
consensus a lot easier. They still accept contributions outside the strategy. I 
had a pull request accepted a while ago, but it was a small commit which didn’t 
really interfere with their main work. 

 

I’m not that familiar with Evergreen, but, Galen, isn’t there an oversight 
board which discusses strategic issues?

 

I suppose we don’t have to do X just because everyone else is doing X, but I 
wonder sometimes if Koha could use more direction. Take ElasticSearch for 
instance. We could’ve made a Koha 4, and replaced Zebra with ElasticSearch 
completely. It would’ve been a big effort, but certainly a worthwhile one. I 
suppose that would’ve run the risks of people continuing to provide patches for 
the 3.x branch while work continued on Koha 4… and thus created a divide. We 
could’ve said no more development on 3.x and targeted work on 4.x only, but 
that could have stifled innovation and turned people off Koha as well.

 

Maybe it’s just a case of the grass being greener for me. 

 

I mean… I’m not a frequent contributor to Koha at the moment, so I could just 
be out of the loop as well. I think Jonathan and Katrin mentioned the developer 
meetings earlier. Perhaps that’s enough of a venue for strategic direction. I 
imagine the core contributors for Koha do tend to share a sense of direction? I 
think we’ve seen that with ElasticSearch, Plack, Bootstrap. Obviously some 
individuals and organisations spearhead those. I suppose being someone who 
contributes infrequently… I would like to work more with people because I can’t 
necessarily devote 100% of my time to improving one part of Koha. But if there 
were a particular goal where we could all pitch code in… I suppose at the 
moment the best way to do that is by testing patches and providing sign offs. 
But because there’s a lack of priorities… the patches awaiting sign off might 
be for things that won’t necessarily make Koha faster and slicker. 

 

I suppose it just goes back to us all wanting Koha to be the best. I just 
wonder if there are ways that we could improve how we do things to be more 
effective and efficient. 

 

For my part, I’d love to work on a better API for importing records. I fear 
though that I might not have enough clout in the community to actualize that 
though. Nor do I know exactly how to make that API better, since my use cases 
represent just a few of all use cases. I suppose that’s why people make RFCs 
yet I feel like many RFCs get mostly ignored. 

 

I suppose if Koha did have more direction, I would still be in the same or 
worse position if the community decided that improving the import API wasn’t a 
priority. I suppose at the moment the koha-devel listserv and the developer 
meetings are the venue to discuss these things, and if something catches the 
eye, they get discussed – like this React idea : ). 

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: Kyle Hall [mailto:kyle.m.h...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2016 12:28 AM
To: David Cook <dc...@prosentient.com.au>
Cc: Owen Leonard <oleon...@myacpl.org>; Koha Devel 
<koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

 

 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:29 PM, David Cook <dc...@prosentient.com.au 
<mailto:dc...@prosentient.com.au> > wrote:

I think it differs in that a search engine and a RESTful API adds core 
functionality. Without them, we can’t really search or expose services. We 
already have a JS UI toolkit, which seems to be working fine.

 

Yes, jQuery UI does work just fine, however libs like React really solve a 
different problem domain. In fact, it's expected that jQuery will be used 
within React for API access. 

 

 

Why do you say that React is necessary and long

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Paul A


With some snipping, please see interspersed text below

At 03:03 PM 9/21/2016 +, Kivilahti Olli-Antti wrote:

Hi there!
I don't know how I intercepted this email since I never read my email, but...


Well, you've been subscribed for many years, have occasionally written, but 
I would agree that you "never read" ...



[snip] Kyle. I totally f***ing agree with you 1%.
Swagger2 + React + Redux will f*** the s*** out of any ILS Koha meets.


While I also find that Kyle made some good points, I am not a "list 
moderator" here, but would instantly chuck you out for your asterisks. I 
have Finnish friends who are perfectly civilized, so may I suggest kiitos 
and add ole varovainen sanasi ja kiel.


I was planning to start a ... 'KohaFi' ... get rid of the legacy baggage 
... before we (as in Finland) can start working on that I have a ton of 
stuff to do. Maybe next year ...


I wish you (as in Finland [sic]) good luck. I'm holding my breath for 
"maybe next year" -- or hopefully even later -- for an outcome to your 
diatribe.


Paul
P.S. I will not respond to any further trolling. 


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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Mirko Tietgen

Kyle Hall schrieb am 21.09.2016
> I suppose that is the most prudent thing to do Tomas. We do have a access
> to a lawyer so I'll talk to her and let you know her thoughts!

Excellent, thank you Kyle. And to Tomas for bringing lawyers into
the discussion. In the end nobody cares what we thought was right or
how we voted about it. And it could have huge consequences. Or we
are scared for no reason.

-- Mirko

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kivilahti Olli-Antti

Hi there!

I don't know how I intercepted this email since I never read my email, but...

"In all seriousness, I just want Koha to be the fastest, slickest most useful 
ILS in the world. I want it to be an absolute pleasure to use. And I think this 
is a necessary milestone to achieving that goal."

Kyle. I totally f***ing agree with you 1%.
Swagger2 + React + Redux will f*** the s*** out of any ILS Koha meets.
Not to forget javascript BDD, PageObject and good test infrastructure to 
rapidly deploy test contexts and tear them down easily and efficiently. 
Regression is the worst PITA with Koha atm.

I am looking forward to kopypaste the React + Redux framework the Oslo Public 
Library uses for their Library System Extended, but there are many great 
examples on how to put React + Redux to good use in Github. And most 
importantly many great examples on how to easily and effectively test all the 
components.

I was planning to start a completely separate namespace (or project) 'KohaFi' 
for this so we can get rid of the legacy baggage and use only the REST API to 
move data from Koha to the newly branded KohaFi ;) (naturally reuse the good 
bits from old Koha to explain the obvious)
We can leverage browser storage to speed up all kinds of system preferences and 
caching stuff.
Rewriting one page/module at a time while still using the old Koha with 
url-redirects to fill up functionality not yet put under KohaFi.
Taking a completely new approach to how i18n is done. Translation straight from 
the GUI.
Rewriting most of the Koha internals effectively and putting everything under 
regression testing to maximize speed and verify API version immutability.
Rewrite MARC::Record as a XS-module maybe?
It would be good to separate the REST API with RabbitMQ from the core Koha so 
we can have sturdy transactions atleast there where those are needed 
(epayments).
Start using HTTP2.0 or SPDY
Use NodeJS and Ecmascript6/7 with Babelscript.
+++
There are so many things modern web development practices would improve in Koha.

Ofc before we (as in Finland) can start working on that I have a ton of stuff 
to do. Maybe next year we can hopefully work on this after we have migrated to 
ElasticSearch and the newest Koha-community version and gotten rid of the 
horrible Zebra and some self-service library automation project...
Personally I see this as the only way for Koha to get rid of its legacy 
baggage, make it a good system and actually make working with it a pleasure. 
And if I have to take this route alone, I wont blink an eye for I know only 
success lies there.
Looking forward to working with you.

OAK


From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
[koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] on behalf of Kyle Hall 
[kyle.m.h...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:27 PM
To: David Cook
Cc: Koha Devel
Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React


On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:29 PM, David Cook 
<dc...@prosentient.com.au<mailto:dc...@prosentient.com.au>> wrote:
I think it differs in that a search engine and a RESTful API adds core 
functionality. Without them, we can’t really search or expose services. We 
already have a JS UI toolkit, which seems to be working fine.

Yes, jQuery UI does work just fine, however libs like React really solve a 
different problem domain. In fact, it's expected that jQuery will be used 
within React for API access.


Why do you say that React is necessary and long overdue? In terms of your 
email, do you mean that it lets you do more with less code? I’m not necessarily 
opposed to that. I do get annoyed by having to write so much code to achieve 
small things at times.

That's the problem React solves! I takes *so* much less code to write an 
equivilent feature with React than it would with html and jQuery dom 
manipulation. I was actually a bit shocked at how fast I was able to rewrite 
the item messages feature in React.


I suppose I’m curious as to the motivation behind React at this point. Aren’t 
there higher priorities for Koha right now? I suppose maybe that’s just my own 
naïveté speaking, and part of the joy of having so many developers on Koha is 
that we can all focus on different aspects of the system.

That's the great thing about Koha as a community. Koha has no priorities, but 
each stakeholder can. I'm sure your priorities could be much different from my, 
but they can be pursued simultaneously!


Yet, shouldn’t there be some cohesion? Are our interfaces going to be a 
combination of plain JS, jQuery, Bootstrap, React, Yui (if it’s still used), 
and whatever other libraries we’re still using? This is what I mean about 
bolting things on.

Then again, if React really does allow for cleaner interfaces, perhaps we’d 
find it taking over our interfaces rapidly, and it would become a de facto 
standard. I don’t know.

There's only one way to find out ; )

In all seriousness, I just want Koha to be the

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Paul A

At 08:34 AM 9/21/2016 -0600, Kyle Hall wrote:
Paul, that's not how it works. As I wrote earlier, if *I* sue Facebook I 
could potentially lose my right to distribute software using React, but 
you would be unaffected.

Kyle -- not wanting to flog a dead horse (and as I wrote IANAL), but Koha 
is a prime example of open-source and has a track record of ensuring it 
remains so. Philosophically I like that. Practically, I run a charity (our 
members are the equity owners and I have no clue as to their love/hate 
relationship with Facebook) and would not want to take risks, nor have the 
budget to get a "legal opinion" (due diligence, and all that...)

Best -- Paul

Kyle

http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( 
http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( 
http://www.ccfls.org )

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Paul A 
<pau...@navalmarinearchive.com> wrote:

At 02:14 PM 9/21/2016 +0200, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
David Cook schrieb am 21.09.2016
> The updated licence isnÃ¢t without controversy:
> 
<https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-allow-use-of-react/3309/4>
> 
https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-allow-use-of-react/3309/4

>
> That said, I think the issue is that Facebook could revoke your
> licence to use React if you take legal action against Facebook. I
> donÃ¢t imagine the Koha community is going to do do that, so itÃ¢s
> > probably not a blocker.

If you are right and that is the issue, does that mean Koha would
not be Free Software anymore unless everything React is reverted?

That sounds like something I would not just push away with "i don't
imagine that happening", it sounds scary and not a way I want to go.

I don't see how a license that can be revoked for whatever reasons
could work for us.

Agreed. But IANAL. However ISTR that are recent thread suggested "tens of 
thousands" of potential libraries|users worldwide (based on downloads?) so 
Murphy|Sod's Law will kick in sooner or later...

Best -- P.

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kyle Hall

I'm still going to run this past our lawyer, but I think it's even less of
a concern then before. Not only would I need to sue Facebook, I would need
to sue Facebook *for infringing on my own patents*.

Kyle



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On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Kyle Hall  wrote:

> I suppose that is the most prudent thing to do Tomas. We do have a access
> to a lawyer so I'll talk to her and let you know her thoughts!
>
> Kyle
>
>
> 
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Tomas Cohen Arazi 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> El mié., 21 sept. 2016 a las 11:17, Kyle Hall ()
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Yes, I've done as thorough a review on the issue as I've been able to.
>>> Basically, Koha is never in any danger. But if say, *I* sued Facebook, I
>>> could possibly lose my patent grants and wouldn't be able to distribute
>>> software that uses React. Everyone else would continue on using Koha as
>>> usual. Many very large companies with cadres of lawyers are using React, so
>>> I don't think it is anything to worry too hard about.
>>>
>>
>> This is the kind of thing we need lawyers for. Do we have access to some?
>>
>> --
>> Tomás Cohen Arazi
>> Theke Solutions (https://theke.io )
>> ✆ +54 9351 3513384
>> GPG: B2F3C15F
>>
>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kyle Hall

I suppose that is the most prudent thing to do Tomas. We do have a access
to a lawyer so I'll talk to her and let you know her thoughts!

Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
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On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Tomas Cohen Arazi 
wrote:

>
>
> El mié., 21 sept. 2016 a las 11:17, Kyle Hall ()
> escribió:
>
>> Yes, I've done as thorough a review on the issue as I've been able to.
>> Basically, Koha is never in any danger. But if say, *I* sued Facebook, I
>> could possibly lose my patent grants and wouldn't be able to distribute
>> software that uses React. Everyone else would continue on using Koha as
>> usual. Many very large companies with cadres of lawyers are using React, so
>> I don't think it is anything to worry too hard about.
>>
>
> This is the kind of thing we need lawyers for. Do we have access to some?
>
> --
> Tomás Cohen Arazi
> Theke Solutions (https://theke.io )
> ✆ +54 9351 3513384
> GPG: B2F3C15F
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kyle Hall

Paul, that's not how it works. As I wrote earlier, if *I* sue Facebook I
could potentially lose my right to distribute software using React, but you
would be unaffected.

Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
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On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Paul A 
wrote:

> At 02:14 PM 9/21/2016 +0200, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
>
>> David Cook schrieb am 21.09.2016
>> > The updated licence isnâ€™t without controversy:
>> > > w-use-of-react/3309/4>
>> > https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-allow
>> -use-of-react/3309/4
>> >
>> > That said, I think the issue is that Facebook could revoke your
>> > licence to use React if you take legal action against Facebook. I
>> > donâ€™t imagine the Koha community is going to do that, so itâ€™s
>> > probably not a blocker.
>>
>> If you are right and that is the issue, does that mean Koha would
>> not be Free Software anymore unless everything React is reverted?
>>
>> That sounds like something I would not just push away with "i don't
>> imagine that happening", it sounds scary and not a way I want to go.
>>
>> I don't see how a license that can be revoked for whatever reasons
>> could work for us.
>>
>
> Agreed. But IANAL. However ISTR that are recent thread suggested "tens of
> thousands" of potential libraries|users worldwide (based on downloads?) so
> Murphy|Sod's Law will kick in sooner or later...
>
> Best -- P.
>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kyle Hall

Mirko, you would have no worries. The license basically means that an
entity that sues facebook may lose the patent grants facebook has. So if I
sue Facebook, I might lose my patent grant to distribute React based
software, but you would not be affected in any way. The license cannot be
revoked.

Kyle

If you are right and that is the issue, does that mean Koha would
> not be Free Software anymore unless everything React is reverted?
>
> That sounds like something I would not just push away with "i don't
> imagine that happening", it sounds scary and not a way I want to go.
>
> I don't see how a license that can be revoked for whatever reasons
> could work for us.
>
> -- Mirko
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Paul A

At 02:14 PM 9/21/2016 +0200, Mirko Tietgen wrote:

David Cook schrieb am 21.09.2016
> The updated licence isnât without controversy:
> 

> 
https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-allow-use-of-react/3309/4

>
> That said, I think the issue is that Facebook could revoke your
> licence to use React if you take legal action against Facebook. I
> donât imagine the Koha community is going to do that, so itâs
> probably not a blocker.

If you are right and that is the issue, does that mean Koha would
not be Free Software anymore unless everything React is reverted?

That sounds like something I would not just push away with "i don't
imagine that happening", it sounds scary and not a way I want to go.

I don't see how a license that can be revoked for whatever reasons
could work for us.

Agreed. But IANAL. However ISTR that are recent thread suggested "tens of 
thousands" of potential libraries|users worldwide (based on downloads?) so 
Murphy|Sod's Law will kick in sooner or later...

Best -- P.

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kyle Hall

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:29 PM, David Cook <dc...@prosentient.com.au>
wrote:

> I think it differs in that a search engine and a RESTful API adds core
> functionality. Without them, we can’t really search or expose services. We
> already have a JS UI toolkit, which seems to be working fine.
>

Yes, jQuery UI does work just fine, however libs like React really solve a
different problem domain. In fact, it's expected that jQuery will be used
within React for API access.


>
>
> Why do you say that React is necessary and long overdue? In terms of your
> email, do you mean that it lets you do more with less code? I’m not
> necessarily opposed to that. I do get annoyed by having to write so much
> code to achieve small things at times.
>

That's the problem React solves! I takes *so* much less code to write an
equivilent feature with React than it would with html and jQuery dom
manipulation. I was actually a bit shocked at how fast I was able to
rewrite the item messages feature in React.


>
>
> I suppose I’m curious as to the motivation behind React at this point.
> Aren’t there higher priorities for Koha right now? I suppose maybe that’s
> just my own naïveté speaking, and part of the joy of having so many
> developers on Koha is that we can all focus on different aspects of the
> system.
>

That's the great thing about Koha as a community. Koha has no priorities,
but each stakeholder can. I'm sure your priorities could be much different
from my, but they can be pursued simultaneously!


>
>
> Yet, shouldn’t there be some cohesion? Are our interfaces going to be a
> combination of plain JS, jQuery, Bootstrap, React, Yui (if it’s still
> used), and whatever other libraries we’re still using? This is what I mean
> about bolting things on.
>
>
>
> Then again, if React really does allow for cleaner interfaces, perhaps
> we’d find it taking over our interfaces rapidly, and it would become a de
> facto standard. I don’t know.
>

There's only one way to find out ; )

In all seriousness, I just want Koha to be the fastest, slickest most
useful ILS in the world. I want it to be an absolute pleasure to use. And I
think this is a necessary milestone to achieving that goal.

Kyle


>
>
> David Cook
>
> Systems Librarian
>
> Prosentient Systems
>
> 72/330 Wattle St
>
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
>
> Australia
>
>
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
>
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> *From:* Kyle Hall [mailto:kyle.m.h...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016 3:31 PM
> *To:* David Cook <dc...@prosentient.com.au>
> *Cc:* Owen Leonard <oleon...@myacpl.org>; Koha Devel <
> koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>
>
>
> For my part, I don't know if we need to keep bolting on more new and shiny
> to Koha.
>
> ElasticSearch makes sense. A REST API makes sense. Fixing broken things or
> adding missing essential functionality.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure how this differs from Koha adding Zebra, adding Elastic or
> adding a restful api. To me, this is not a matter of adding new for the
> sake of new ( React isn't even new at this point ) but of adding something
> that is necessary and long overdue. The question isn't about needing React
> or not, it's about the need for a modern JS UI toolkit to take advantage of
> our svc and rest api's without the need to write crazy amounts of code to
> make it work with just jQuery. Take a look at the javascript file for the
> holds table and you'll see what I mean. A React implementation of it would
> be *so* much cleaner and easier to understand for everyone. Please don't
> ask me to rewrite it as a poc though ; ) I *will* be happy to rewrite it
> post-adoption.
>
>
>
>
> Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?
>
>
>
> React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our
> other js files.
>
>
>
>
> David Cook
> Systems Librarian
> Prosentient Systems
> 72/330 Wattle St
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
> Australia
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel-
> > boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> > Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> > To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
> >
> > > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > > thing to throw on the stack.
> >
> > Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
> > introduce a fron

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Tomas Cohen Arazi

El mié., 21 sept. 2016 a las 11:17, Kyle Hall ()
escribió:

> Yes, I've done as thorough a review on the issue as I've been able to.
> Basically, Koha is never in any danger. But if say, *I* sued Facebook, I
> could possibly lose my patent grants and wouldn't be able to distribute
> software that uses React. Everyone else would continue on using Koha as
> usual. Many very large companies with cadres of lawyers are using React, so
> I don't think it is anything to worry too hard about.
>

This is the kind of thing we need lawyers for. Do we have access to some?

-- 
Tomás Cohen Arazi
Theke Solutions (https://theke.io )
✆ +54 9351 3513384
GPG: B2F3C15F
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Tomas Cohen Arazi

You are looking at a POC, that doesn't have the endpoints it need to hit
against, so it has some sample values in plain english. But a real
implementation would of course use the usual _("blah") stuff, and have the
strings defined in a translatable file/directory.

El mar., 20 sept. 2016 a las 21:17, David Cook (<dc...@prosentient.com.au>)
escribió:

> I think Katrin and I both are probably referring to this file:
> https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/page.cgi?id=splinter.html=17297=55545
>
>
>
> It embeds HTML and hardcoded strings in the .js file. It would be great to
> see a translateable version.
>
>
>
> David Cook
>
> Systems Librarian
>
> Prosentient Systems
>
> 72/330 Wattle St
>
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
>
> Australia
>
>
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
>
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> *From:* koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:
> koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] *On Behalf Of *Kyle Hall
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016 11:22 PM
> *To:* Katrin <katrin.fischer...@web.de>
> *Cc:* Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>
>
>
> Katrin I'm not quite sure what you mean. When I wrote we translate these
> files the same way we do other js files, I meant that we define the strings
> to be translated either in the script template file or in an include file
> and then only use the var storing the string in the js file. React is just
> Javascript and what we've been doing should work absolutely fine. I'll
> update my POC to be translatable when I get some time!
>
>
>
> If this is not what you meant Katrin, please let me know!
>
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> <https://secure2.convio.net/cffh/site/Donation2?df_id=1395_ID=4715_ID=2706639_TYPE=20&1395.donation=form1_src=CHORUS_subsrc=CHAADOEB>
>
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Katrin <katrin.fischer...@web.de> wrote:
>
>
> Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?
>
>
>
> React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our
> other js files.
>
> We don't translate js files at the moment - which may be debatable. One
> benefit at the moment of keeping the strings only in the templates is that
> we don't copy the js files as we do with the template files. I think this
> should be solvable, but it's something to keep in mind.
>
>
>
>
> David Cook
> Systems Librarian
> Prosentient Systems
> 72/330 Wattle St
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
> Australia
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel-
> > boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> > Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> > To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
> >
> > > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > > thing to throw on the stack.
> >
> > Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
> > introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
> >
> >   -- Owen
> >
> > --
> > Web Developer
> > Athens County Public Libraries
> > http://www.myacpl.org
> > ___
> > Koha-devel mailing list
> > Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> > http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> > website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
> > community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Koha-devel mailing list
>
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
>
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
>
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
>
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
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>
>
> ___

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kyle Hall

Yes, I'll definitely need to make it translatable! I'll do that along with
building out the backend to make it a complete fully functioning feature.

Kyle

<https://secure2.convio.net/cffh/site/Donation2?df_id=1395_ID=4715_ID=2706639_TYPE=20&1395.donation=form1_src=CHORUS_subsrc=CHAADOEB>

http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:17 PM, David Cook <dc...@prosentient.com.au>
wrote:

> I think Katrin and I both are probably referring to this file:
> https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/page.cgi?id=
> splinter.html=17297=55545
>
>
>
> It embeds HTML and hardcoded strings in the .js file. It would be great to
> see a translateable version.
>
>
>
> David Cook
>
> Systems Librarian
>
> Prosentient Systems
>
> 72/330 Wattle St
>
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
>
> Australia
>
>
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
>
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> *From:* koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:
> koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] *On Behalf Of *Kyle Hall
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016 11:22 PM
> *To:* Katrin <katrin.fischer...@web.de>
> *Cc:* Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>
>
>
> Katrin I'm not quite sure what you mean. When I wrote we translate these
> files the same way we do other js files, I meant that we define the strings
> to be translated either in the script template file or in an include file
> and then only use the var storing the string in the js file. React is just
> Javascript and what we've been doing should work absolutely fine. I'll
> update my POC to be translatable when I get some time!
>
>
>
> If this is not what you meant Katrin, please let me know!
>
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> <https://secure2.convio.net/cffh/site/Donation2?df_id=1395_ID=4715_ID=2706639_TYPE=20&1395.donation=form1_src=CHORUS_subsrc=CHAADOEB>
>
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Katrin <katrin.fischer...@web.de> wrote:
>
>
> Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?
>
>
>
> React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our
> other js files.
>
> We don't translate js files at the moment - which may be debatable. One
> benefit at the moment of keeping the strings only in the templates is that
> we don't copy the js files as we do with the template files. I think this
> should be solvable, but it's something to keep in mind.
>
>
>
>
> David Cook
> Systems Librarian
> Prosentient Systems
> 72/330 Wattle St
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
> Australia
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel-
> > boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> > Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> > To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
> >
> > > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > > thing to throw on the stack.
> >
> > Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
> > introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
> >
> >   -- Owen
> >
> > --
> > Web Developer
> > Athens County Public Libraries
> > http://www.myacpl.org
> > ___
> > Koha-devel mailing list
> > Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> > http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> > website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
> > community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
>
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
>
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
>
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Kyle Hall

Yes, I've done as thorough a review on the issue as I've been able to.
Basically, Koha is never in any danger. But if say, *I* sued Facebook, I
could possibly lose my patent grants and wouldn't be able to distribute
software that uses React. Everyone else would continue on using Koha as
usual. Many very large companies with cadres of lawyers are using React, so
I don't think it is anything to worry too hard about.

Kyle

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:11 PM, David Cook <dc...@prosentient.com.au>
wrote:

> The updated licence isn’t without controversy:
> https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-
> allow-use-of-react/3309/4
>
>
>
> That said, I think the issue is that Facebook could revoke your licence to
> use React if you take legal action against Facebook. I don’t imagine the
> Koha community is going to do that, so it’s probably not a blocker.
>
>
>
> David Cook
>
> Systems Librarian
>
> Prosentient Systems
>
> 72/330 Wattle St
>
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
>
> Australia
>
>
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
>
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> *From:* koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:
> koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] *On Behalf Of *Kyle Hall
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016 3:24 PM
> *To:* Marc Véron <ve...@veron.ch>
> *Cc:* Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>
>
>
> I did much research on that particular issue and it was put to rest when
> Facebook updated it's license for React. It looks like the Wikipedia page
> only has the vaguest reference to that ; )
>
>
>
> Regarding licensing:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(JavaScript_library)
>
> See part "Patents clause controversy"
>
>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-21 Thread Mirko Tietgen

David Cook schrieb am 21.09.2016
> The updated licence isn’t without controversy:
> 
> https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-allow-use-of-react/3309/4
>
> That said, I think the issue is that Facebook could revoke your
> licence to use React if you take legal action against Facebook. I
> don’t imagine the Koha community is going to do that, so it’s
> probably not a blocker.

If you are right and that is the issue, does that mean Koha would
not be Free Software anymore unless everything React is reverted?

That sounds like something I would not just push away with "i don't
imagine that happening", it sounds scary and not a way I want to go.

I don't see how a license that can be revoked for whatever reasons
could work for us.

-- Mirko

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-20 Thread David Cook

Haven’t there been complaints about the slowness of the AJAX-powered 
circulation system? 

 

That said, I think that’s an exception to the norm. “Just in time” loading can 
be useful, since users see a loaded webpage with a “processing” or “loading” 
notification rather than a white page as their browser struggles to load 
everything at once. Although when something takes a long time with a 
“processing” notification, it still highlights the slowness of the system 
anyway. 

 

I’m confused though, Kyle, when you say that the feature is optional. How would 
it be optional? Wouldn’t the React implementation be the only implementation? I 
don’t imagine there being a system preference to say “use server-side 
processing instead”. 

 

I’ve been thinking a lot about bloat lately. I use the Catalyst framework on a 
different Perl project, and I absolutely love it. It makes it so easy to put 
together and maintain a web app. But I do wonder about committing ourselves to 
X number of frameworks and such. What do we do when they’re no longer 
supported? Rip them out and use a new one? 

 

Of course, if React is as lightweight as Kyle says, that might make it ideal 
choice as perhaps it would be easy enough to rip out and replace if need be.

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
[mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Hall
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2016 3:22 PM
To: Paul A <pau...@navalmarinearchive.com>
Cc: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

 


Question: what has Facebook added to js that we could not use as "regular" js? 
Not a show stopper, but our "gut feeling" (not fully documented, but more than 
anecdotal) is that all js code, given its standalone capability, has a more 
than proportional speed downside. And I'm not going near the licensing 
questions.

 

I must disagree. Ajax Koha features powered by javascript are far faster then 
the traditional cgi-powered equivalents. Another powerful speed factor is "just 
in time" loading. Consider all the data loaded in tabs they may only be viewed 
once every dozen or more views. The prime example I can point to is the holds 
tab. In the past we had to process and load the holds data for a patron on 
every checkout. Now we only load that data when the tab is clicked on, thus 
saving many wasted cpu cycles!

 


If I understand this bug 17297 ("low enhancement") correctly, it refines 
itemnotes by adding granularity. If this is a "good thing", can the original 
coding be improved? Add an auth value? If we need js, how optional might this 
be? (do we know how many Koha users are truly interested?)

 

This discussion is not really about this particular feature or what it does, 
but about the architecture that it uses. This is my second iteration of the 
feature. The first version I wrote used Angular which gives me a good 
perspective on the use of both in Koha, which is why I started this discussion 
; )

 

The short answer is yes, it's definitely optional and the feature can be safely 
ignored if you aren't interested in it.

 


I've always been impressed by Koha core speed, and without using such 
expressions as "mission creep" (or heaven forfend, code bloat) I truly 
recognize that enhancements are a real life necessity. Just wondering how and 
where they are best added while maintaining the KISS principle...

 

Getting proper tools in Koha will have a great impact on *reducing* bloat 
rather than adding to it. When we make requests via our services we bypass all 
the ui processing that is needed the redisplay the page. Koha has suffered from 
bloating in the last few years of releases, but they had nothing to do with 
javascript or restful services ( thanks again to Jonathan for doing so much 
work de-bloating Koha! )

 

Kyle

 


Best -- Paul





Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni <bargi...@pusc.it 
<mailto:bargi...@pusc.it> > wrote:

My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.

Stefano




On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall <kyle.m.h...@gmail.com 
<mailto:kyle.m.h...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I have my proof of concept for usingÂ ReactÂ within Koha completed! You can see 
it here:Â https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297

Please give it a try!

So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular andÂ 
React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.

1) It's much easier to think inÂ React

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-20 Thread David Cook

I think it differs in that a search engine and a RESTful API adds core 
functionality. Without them, we can’t really search or expose services. We 
already have a JS UI toolkit, which seems to be working fine. 

 

Why do you say that React is necessary and long overdue? In terms of your 
email, do you mean that it lets you do more with less code? I’m not necessarily 
opposed to that. I do get annoyed by having to write so much code to achieve 
small things at times.

 

I suppose I’m curious as to the motivation behind React at this point. Aren’t 
there higher priorities for Koha right now? I suppose maybe that’s just my own 
naïveté speaking, and part of the joy of having so many developers on Koha is 
that we can all focus on different aspects of the system. 

 

Yet, shouldn’t there be some cohesion? Are our interfaces going to be a 
combination of plain JS, jQuery, Bootstrap, React, Yui (if it’s still used), 
and whatever other libraries we’re still using? This is what I mean about 
bolting things on.  

 

Then again, if React really does allow for cleaner interfaces, perhaps we’d 
find it taking over our interfaces rapidly, and it would become a de facto 
standard. I don’t know. 

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: Kyle Hall [mailto:kyle.m.h...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2016 3:31 PM
To: David Cook <dc...@prosentient.com.au>
Cc: Owen Leonard <oleon...@myacpl.org>; Koha Devel 
<koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

 

For my part, I don't know if we need to keep bolting on more new and shiny
to Koha.

ElasticSearch makes sense. A REST API makes sense. Fixing broken things or
adding missing essential functionality.

 

I'm not sure how this differs from Koha adding Zebra, adding Elastic or adding 
a restful api. To me, this is not a matter of adding new for the sake of new ( 
React isn't even new at this point ) but of adding something that is necessary 
and long overdue. The question isn't about needing React or not, it's about the 
need for a modern JS UI toolkit to take advantage of our svc and rest api's 
without the need to write crazy amounts of code to make it work with just 
jQuery. Take a look at the javascript file for the holds table and you'll see 
what I mean. A React implementation of it would be *so* much cleaner and easier 
to understand for everyone. Please don't ask me to rewrite it as a poc though ; 
) I *will* be happy to rewrite it post-adoption.

 


Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?

 

React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our 
other js files.

 


David Cook
Systems Librarian
Prosentient Systems
72/330 Wattle St
Ultimo, NSW 2007
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899
Direct: 02 8005 0595



> -Original Message-
> From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
> <mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org>  [mailto:koha-devel- 
> <mailto:koha-devel-> 
> boun...@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:boun...@lists.koha-community.org> ] 
> On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
> <mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> >
> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>
> > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > thing to throw on the stack.
>
> Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
> introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
>
>   -- Owen
>
> --
> Web Developer
> Athens County Public Libraries
> http://www.myacpl.org
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
> <mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> 
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
> community.org/ <http://community.org/>  bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/



 

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-20 Thread David Cook

I think Katrin and I both are probably referring to this file:  
<https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/page.cgi?id=splinter.html=17297=55545>
 
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/page.cgi?id=splinter.html=17297=55545

 

It embeds HTML and hardcoded strings in the .js file. It would be great to see 
a translateable version.

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
[mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Hall
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2016 11:22 PM
To: Katrin <katrin.fischer...@web.de>
Cc: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

 

Katrin I'm not quite sure what you mean. When I wrote we translate these files 
the same way we do other js files, I meant that we define the strings to be 
translated either in the script template file or in an include file and then 
only use the var storing the string in the js file. React is just Javascript 
and what we've been doing should work absolutely fine. I'll update my POC to be 
translatable when I get some time!

 

If this is not what you meant Katrin, please let me know!

 

Kyle




 
<https://secure2.convio.net/cffh/site/Donation2?df_id=1395_ID=4715_ID=2706639_TYPE=20&1395.donation=form1_src=CHORUS_subsrc=CHAADOEB>
 

 

http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

 

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Katrin <katrin.fischer...@web.de 
<mailto:katrin.fischer...@web.de> > wrote:


Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?

 

React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our 
other js files.

We don't translate js files at the moment - which may be debatable. One benefit 
at the moment of keeping the strings only in the templates is that we don't 
copy the js files as we do with the template files. I think this should be 
solvable, but it's something to keep in mind.






David Cook
Systems Librarian
Prosentient Systems
72/330 Wattle St
Ultimo, NSW 2007
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899
Direct: 02 8005 0595



> -Original Message-
> From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
> <mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org>  [mailto:koha-devel- 
> <mailto:koha-devel-> 
> boun...@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:boun...@lists.koha-community.org> ] 
> On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
> <mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> >
> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>
> > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > thing to throw on the stack.
>
> Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
> introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
>
>   -- Owen
>
> --
> Web Developer
> Athens County Public Libraries
> http://www.myacpl.org
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org 
> <mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> 
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
> community.org/ <http://community.org/>  bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/



 

 

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-20 Thread David Cook

The updated licence isn’t without controversy:  
<https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-allow-use-of-react/3309/4>
 
https://discuss.reactjs.org/t/legal-department-did-not-allow-use-of-react/3309/4

 

That said, I think the issue is that Facebook could revoke your licence to use 
React if you take legal action against Facebook. I don’t imagine the Koha 
community is going to do that, so it’s probably not a blocker.

 

David Cook

Systems Librarian

Prosentient Systems

72/330 Wattle St

Ultimo, NSW 2007

Australia

 

Office: 02 9212 0899

Direct: 02 8005 0595

 

From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org 
[mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Hall
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2016 3:24 PM
To: Marc Véron <ve...@veron.ch>
Cc: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

 

I did much research on that particular issue and it was put to rest when 
Facebook updated it's license for React. It looks like the Wikipedia page only 
has the vaguest reference to that ; )

 

Regarding licensing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(JavaScript_library)

See part "Patents clause controversy"

 

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-20 Thread Kyle Hall

Katrin I'm not quite sure what you mean. When I wrote we translate these
files the same way we do other js files, I meant that we define the strings
to be translated either in the script template file or in an include file
and then only use the var storing the string in the js file. React is just
Javascript and what we've been doing should work absolutely fine. I'll
update my POC to be translatable when I get some time!

If this is not what you meant Katrin, please let me know!

Kyle

<https://secure2.convio.net/cffh/site/Donation2?df_id=1395_ID=4715_ID=2706639_TYPE=20&1395.donation=form1_src=CHORUS_subsrc=CHAADOEB>

http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Katrin <katrin.fischer...@web.de> wrote:

>
>> Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?
>>
>
> React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our
> other js files.
>
> We don't translate js files at the moment - which may be debatable. One
> benefit at the moment of keeping the strings only in the templates is that
> we don't copy the js files as we do with the template files. I think this
> should be solvable, but it's something to keep in mind.
>
>
>> David Cook
>> Systems Librarian
>> Prosentient Systems
>> 72/330 Wattle St
>> Ultimo, NSW 2007
>> Australia
>>
>> Office: 02 9212 0899
>> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel-
>> > boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
>> > Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
>> > To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>> >
>> > > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
>> > > thing to throw on the stack.
>> >
>> > Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
>> > introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
>> >
>> >   -- Owen
>> >
>> > --
>> > Web Developer
>> > Athens County Public Libraries
>> > http://www.myacpl.org
>> > ___
>> > Koha-devel mailing list
>> > Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
>> > http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>> > website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
>> > community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing 
> listkoha-de...@lists.koha-community.orghttp://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Katrin



Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?


React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all 
our other js files.
We don't translate js files at the moment - which may be debatable. One 
benefit at the moment of keeping the strings only in the templates is 
that we don't copy the js files as we do with the template files. I 
think this should be solvable, but it's something to keep in mind.



David Cook
Systems Librarian
Prosentient Systems
72/330 Wattle St
Ultimo, NSW 2007
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899
Direct: 02 8005 0595


> -Original Message-
> From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org
<mailto:koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org>
[mailto:koha-devel- <mailto:koha-devel->
> boun...@lists.koha-community.org
<mailto:boun...@lists.koha-community.org>] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
<mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>
> > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > thing to throw on the stack.
>
> Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my
request to
> introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
>
>   -- Owen
>
> --
> Web Developer
> Athens County Public Libraries
> http://www.myacpl.org
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
<mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
>
http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
<http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel>
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
> community.org/ <http://community.org/> bugs :
http://bugs.koha-community.org/ <http://bugs.koha-community.org/>





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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

I think I covered everyones questions. If I missed any or anyone has
followups to my replies, please keep them coming! Koha *needs* a way for us
to develop and use modern web practices. Koha has always evolved as the web
has evolved. If it didn't, we'd still be using pure cgi-script with no
javascript or ui layout framework! It's time for Koha to evolve a again,
and it's a very small step compared to say the introduction of Bootstrap.
React will just be another tool we can use to make Koha even better than
before, and will not require changing much code at all to add, and does not
affect any currently submitted patches.

Again, please keep the questions and suggestions coming! Thanks to everyone
who has joined in the discussion so far!

Kyle

<https://secure2.convio.net/cffh/site/Donation2?df_id=1395_ID=4715_ID=2706639_TYPE=20&1395.donation=form1_src=CHORUS_subsrc=CHAADOEB>

http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:30 AM, Kyle Hall <kyle.m.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> For my part, I don't know if we need to keep bolting on more new and shiny
>> to Koha.
>>
>> ElasticSearch makes sense. A REST API makes sense. Fixing broken things or
>> adding missing essential functionality.
>>
>
> I'm not sure how this differs from Koha adding Zebra, adding Elastic or
> adding a restful api. To me, this is not a matter of adding new for the
> sake of new ( React isn't even new at this point ) but of adding something
> that is necessary and long overdue. The question isn't about needing React
> or not, it's about the need for a modern JS UI toolkit to take advantage of
> our svc and rest api's without the need to write crazy amounts of code to
> make it work with just jQuery. Take a look at the javascript file for the
> holds table and you'll see what I mean. A React implementation of it would
> be *so* much cleaner and easier to understand for everyone. Please don't
> ask me to rewrite it as a poc though ; ) I *will* be happy to rewrite it
> post-adoption.
>
>
>>
>> Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?
>>
>
> React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our
> other js files.
>
>
>>
>> David Cook
>> Systems Librarian
>> Prosentient Systems
>> 72/330 Wattle St
>> Ultimo, NSW 2007
>> Australia
>>
>> Office: 02 9212 0899
>> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel-
>> > boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
>> > Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
>> > To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
>> >
>> > > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
>> > > thing to throw on the stack.
>> >
>> > Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
>> > introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
>> >
>> >   -- Owen
>> >
>> > --
>> > Web Developer
>> > Athens County Public Libraries
>> > http://www.myacpl.org
>> > ___
>> > Koha-devel mailing list
>> > Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
>> > http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>> > website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
>> > community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

>
> For my part, I don't know if we need to keep bolting on more new and shiny
> to Koha.
>
> ElasticSearch makes sense. A REST API makes sense. Fixing broken things or
> adding missing essential functionality.
>

I'm not sure how this differs from Koha adding Zebra, adding Elastic or
adding a restful api. To me, this is not a matter of adding new for the
sake of new ( React isn't even new at this point ) but of adding something
that is necessary and long overdue. The question isn't about needing React
or not, it's about the need for a modern JS UI toolkit to take advantage of
our svc and rest api's without the need to write crazy amounts of code to
make it work with just jQuery. Take a look at the javascript file for the
holds table and you'll see what I mean. A React implementation of it would
be *so* much cleaner and easier to understand for everyone. Please don't
ask me to rewrite it as a poc though ; ) I *will* be happy to rewrite it
post-adoption.


>
> Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations?
>

React is just Javascript, and is translated the same way translate all our
other js files.


>
> David Cook
> Systems Librarian
> Prosentient Systems
> 72/330 Wattle St
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
> Australia
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Direct: 02 8005 0595
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel-
> > boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> > Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> > To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
> >
> > > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > > thing to throw on the stack.
> >
> > Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
> > introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
> >
> >   -- Owen
> >
> > --
> > Web Developer
> > Athens County Public Libraries
> > http://www.myacpl.org
> > ___
> > Koha-devel mailing list
> > Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> > http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> > website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-
> > community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

I did much research on that particular issue and it was put to rest when
Facebook updated it's license for React. It looks like the Wikipedia page
only has the vaguest reference to that ; )


> Regarding licensing:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(JavaScript_library)
>
> See part "Patents clause controversy"
>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

>
>
> Question: what has Facebook added to js that we could not use as "regular"
> js? Not a show stopper, but our "gut feeling" (not fully documented, but
> more than anecdotal) is that all js code, given its standalone capability,
> has a more than proportional speed downside. And I'm not going near the
> licensing questions.
>

I must disagree. Ajax Koha features powered by javascript are far faster
then the traditional cgi-powered equivalents. Another powerful speed factor
is "just in time" loading. Consider all the data loaded in tabs they may
only be viewed once every dozen or more views. The prime example I can
point to is the holds tab. In the past we had to process and load the holds
data for a patron on every checkout. Now we only load that data when the
tab is clicked on, thus saving many wasted cpu cycles!


>
> If I understand this bug 17297 ("low enhancement") correctly, it refines
> itemnotes by adding granularity. If this is a "good thing", can the
> original coding be improved? Add an auth value? If we need js, how optional
> might this be? (do we know how many Koha users are truly interested?)
>

This discussion is not really about this particular feature or what it
does, but about the architecture that it uses. This is my second iteration
of the feature. The first version I wrote used Angular which gives me a
good perspective on the use of both in Koha, which is why I started this
discussion ; )

The short answer is yes, it's definitely optional and the feature can be
safely ignored if you aren't interested in it.


>
> I've always been impressed by Koha core speed, and without using such
> expressions as "mission creep" (or heaven forfend, code bloat) I truly
> recognize that enhancements are a real life necessity. Just wondering how
> and where they are best added while maintaining the KISS principle...
>

Getting proper tools in Koha will have a great impact on *reducing* bloat
rather than adding to it. When we make requests via our services we bypass
all the ui processing that is needed the redisplay the page. Koha has
suffered from bloating in the last few years of releases, but they had
nothing to do with javascript or restful services ( thanks again to
Jonathan for doing so much work de-bloating Koha! )

Kyle


>
> Best -- Paul
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni 
> wrote:
> My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.
> Stefano
>
> On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall  wrote:
>
> I have my proof of concept for usingÂ ReactÂ within Koha completed! You
> can see it here:Â https://bugs.koha-community.
> org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297
>
> Please give it a try!
>
> So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular
> andÂ React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
>
> 1) It's much easier to think inÂ ReactÂ than in Angular.Â ReactÂ is for
> the most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They
> saying goesÂ ReactÂ is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the
> flexibility ofÂ ReactÂ works well within the Koha ecosystem.
>
> 2) WritingÂ ReactÂ feels much more like programming. I think it's much
> faster to develop reactive and ajax features inÂ ReactÂ than it is using
> jQuery.
>
> 3)Â ReactÂ makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a
> given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on
> multiple pages would make for a goodÂ ReactÂ widget. Think the holds table
> which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified
> now, but a far far cleaner version could be written inÂ React.
>
> 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many
> pieces we don't really need.
>
> I thinkÂ ReactÂ is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for
> Koha in particular, I thinkÂ ReactÂ is a better fit. I think we really need
> to get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions,
> please let everyone know!
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
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>
>
>
> ___
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>

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

Question: what has Facebook added to js that we could not use as "regular"
> js? Not a show stopper, but our "gut feeling" (not fully documented, but
> more than anecdotal) is that all js code, given its standalone capability,
> has a more than proportional speed downside. And I'm not going near the
> licensing questions.
>
> If I understand this bug 17297 ("low enhancement") correctly, it refines
> itemnotes by adding granularity. If this is a "good thing", can the
> original coding be improved? Add an auth value? If we need js, how optional
> might this be? (do we know how many Koha users are truly interested?)
>
> I've always been impressed by Koha core speed, and without using such
> expressions as "mission creep" (or heaven forfend, code bloat) I truly
> recognize that enhancements are a real life necessity. Just wondering how
> and where they are best added while maintaining the KISS principle...
>
> Best -- Paul
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni 
> wrote:
> My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.
> Stefano
>
> On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall  wrote:
>
> I have my proof of concept for usingÂ ReactÂ within Koha completed! You
> can see it here:Â https://bugs.koha-community.
> org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297
>
> Please give it a try!
>
> So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular
> andÂ React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
>
> 1) It's much easier to think inÂ ReactÂ than in Angular.Â ReactÂ is for
> the most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They
> saying goesÂ ReactÂ is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the
> flexibility ofÂ ReactÂ works well within the Koha ecosystem.
>
> 2) WritingÂ ReactÂ feels much more like programming. I think it's much
> faster to develop reactive and ajax features inÂ ReactÂ than it is using
> jQuery.
>
> 3)Â ReactÂ makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a
> given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on
> multiple pages would make for a goodÂ ReactÂ widget. Think the holds table
> which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified
> now, but a far far cleaner version could be written inÂ React.
>
> 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many
> pieces we don't really need.
>
> I thinkÂ ReactÂ is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for
> Koha in particular, I thinkÂ ReactÂ is a better fit. I think we really need
> to get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions,
> please let everyone know!
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>
> ___
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> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
> ---
> Maritime heritage and history, preservation and conservation,
> research and education through the written word and the arts.
> > and <
> http://UltraMarine.ca >
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

Yes, I definitely want to complete the backend and make this a fully
functioning submission before long. I decided to get it out as early as
possible just to get this discussion rolling!



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Jonathan Druart <
jonathan.dru...@bugs.koha-community.org> wrote:

> Hi Kyle;
>
> Thanks for this example.
> Would it be possible to see a working example to fully understand what
> you have in mind?
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
> 2016-09-15 19:22 GMT+02:00 Kyle Hall :
> > I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha completed! You can
> > see it here: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=
> 17297
> >
> > Please give it a try!
> >
> > So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular
> and
> > React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
> >
> > 1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is for the
> most
> > part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They saying
> > goes React is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the flexibility
> of
> > React works well within the Koha ecosystem.
> >
> > 2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's much
> faster
> > to develop reactive and ajax features in React than it is using jQuery.
> >
> > 3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a
> > given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on
> > multiple pages would make for a good React widget. Think the holds table
> > which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is
> ajaxified
> > now, but a far far cleaner version could be written in React.
> >
> > 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many
> > pieces we don't really need.
> >
> > I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for
> > Koha in particular, I think React is a better fit. I think we really
> need to
> > get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions,
> please
> > let everyone know!
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> > http://www.kylehall.info
> > ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> > Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> > Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
> >
> > ___
> > Koha-devel mailing list
> > Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> > http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> > website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> > git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> > bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
> ___
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> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

Owen, I didn't know that proposal had been shut down! I find it especially
odd since we already require nodejs for converting our less files to css.
We already have leaped the bar of needing to use nodejs as Koha developers,
so I see no reason why cannot just use grunt or gulp via npm as we do the
less complier.



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Owen Leonard  wrote:

> > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another thing
> to
> > throw on the stack.
>
> Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request
> to introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
>
>   -- Owen
>
> --
> Web Developer
> Athens County Public Libraries
> http://www.myacpl.org
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Philippe Blouin <
philippe.blo...@inlibro.com> wrote:

> Can I not be against, yet still have concerns?  :)
>
> I'm glad you so gallantly dumped Angular, which I would have raised my
> hand Against since that thing obsolete past code every 6 months.  But I do
> not know React.  Could you sell me more the big plusses to do that.  What
> will it replace, do you have an example?  What about all the code waiting
> approval right now, will it become obsolete because non-Reactive ?
>

The big plus of React is that it really does allow quick development of
very nice widgets that can be used and re-used. React is also a view layer
only and does not throw everything and the kitchen sink in like Angular
does. React does not obsolete any existing code, but it can be used to
augment existing features and for new features wherever we want to use it!

>
> All the big previous changes (bootstrap, dbix...) were not without pain,
> espeicially for those outside the core, not coding these technologies 24/7.
>
> And how do you see React evolving in the next 5 years?  Keeping up with
> bootstrap requires huge effort (if/when we upgrade).
>

React has a nice simple, stable api at this point. I cannot say what it
will be in 5 years, but I can say that what is now will not limit us in the
future. It does what we need it to do right now.


>
> Again, I know little.  Please don't ask me if I'm against, but give me
> your big sales pitch. :)
>

Of course! I have learned how to use React and Angular both just as for
potential use in Koha. A direct comparison of them *for Koha* tells me that
React is far better suited for our uses.

Kyle


>
> Cheers,
>
> Philippe Blouin,
> Responsable du développement informatique
>
> Tél.  : (888) 604-2627
> philippe.blo...@inlibro.com
> inLibro | pour esprit libre | www.inLibro.com
> On 09/19/2016 08:18 AM, Kyle Hall wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback Stefano!
>
> Please, if anybody is *against* the use of React in Koha, please voice
> your concerns!
>
> Kyle
>
>
> 
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( 
> http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( 
> http://www.ccfls.org )
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni < 
> bargi...@pusc.it> wrote:
>
>> My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.
>> Stefano
>>
>> On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall < 
>> kyle.m.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha completed! You
>> can see it here:
>> 
>> https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297
>>
>> Please give it a try!
>>
>> So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular
>> and React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
>>
>> 1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is for the
>> most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They
>> saying goes React is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the
>> flexibility of React works well within the Koha ecosystem.
>>
>> 2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's much
>> faster to develop reactive and ajax features in React than it is using
>> jQuery.
>>
>> 3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a
>> given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on
>> multiple pages would make for a good React widget. Think the holds table
>> which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified
>> now, but a far far cleaner version could be written in React.
>>
>> 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many
>> pieces we don't really need.
>>
>> I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for
>> Koha in particular, I think React is a better fit. I think we really
>> need to get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions,
>> please let everyone know!
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>>
>> http://www.kylehall.info
>> ByWater Solutions ( 
>> http://bywatersolutions.com )
>> Meadville Public Library ( 
>> http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
>> Crawford County Federated Library System ( 
>> http://www.ccfls.org )
>> ___
>> Koha-devel mailing list
>> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
>> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
>> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
>> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread David Cook

Sounds familiar.

For my part, I don't know if we need to keep bolting on more new and shiny
to Koha.

ElasticSearch makes sense. A REST API makes sense. Fixing broken things or
adding missing essential functionality. 

Also, how would this React POC go in terms of translations? 

David Cook
Systems Librarian
Prosentient Systems
72/330 Wattle St
Ultimo, NSW 2007
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899
Direct: 02 8005 0595


> -Original Message-
> From: koha-devel-boun...@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel-
> boun...@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard
> Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016 11:33 PM
> To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org>
> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React
> 
> > Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another
> > thing to throw on the stack.
> 
> Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request to
> introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?
> 
>   -- Owen
> 
> --
> Web Developer
> Athens County Public Libraries
> http://www.myacpl.org
> ___
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> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Marc Véron


Regarding licensing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(JavaScript_library)

See part "Patents clause controversy"

Marc


Am 19.09.2016 um 17:15 schrieb Paul A:

At 08:18 AM 9/19/2016 -0400, Kyle Hall wrote:

Thanks for the feedback Stefano!
Please, if anybody is *against* the use of React in Koha, please 
voice your concerns!


Question: what has Facebook added to js that we could not use as 
"regular" js? Not a show stopper, but our "gut feeling" (not fully 
documented, but more than anecdotal) is that all js code, given its 
standalone capability, has a more than proportional speed downside. 
And I'm not going near the licensing questions.


If I understand this bug 17297 ("low enhancement") correctly, it 
refines itemnotes by adding granularity. If this is a "good thing", 
can the original coding be improved? Add an auth value? If we need js, 
how optional might this be? (do we know how many Koha users are truly 
interested?)


I've always been impressed by Koha core speed, and without using such 
expressions as "mission creep" (or heaven forfend, code bloat) I truly 
recognize that enhancements are a real life necessity. Just wondering 
how and where they are best added while maintaining the KISS principle...


Best -- Paul



Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni > wrote:


My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than
Javascript.
Stefano


On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall > wrote:

I have my proof of concept for usingÂ ReactÂ within Koha
completed! You can see it here:Â
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297

Please give it a try!

So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in
both Angular andÂ React. I know Angular 2 is out but here
are my thoughts so far.

1) It's much easier to think inÂ ReactÂ than in Angular.Â
ReactÂ is for the most part just Javascript. It's far less
opinionated than Angular. They saying goesÂ ReactÂ is
Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the flexibility
ofÂ ReactÂ works well within the Koha ecosystem.

2) WritingÂ ReactÂ feels much more like programming. I think
it's much faster to develop reactive and ajax features inÂ
ReactÂ than it is using jQuery.

3)Â ReactÂ makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we
can drop in to a given page and have just work. Pretty much
anything that shows up on multiple pages would make for a
goodÂ ReactÂ widget. Think the holds table which is on the
checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified
now, but a far far cleaner version could be written inÂ React.

4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC
framework with many pieces we don't really need.

I thinkÂ ReactÂ is probably the way to go for Koha. I like
Angular but for Koha in particular, I thinkÂ ReactÂ is a
better fit. I think we really need to get this decision made
as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions, please let
everyone know!

Kyle


http://www.kylehall.info 
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com
 )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org
 )
Crawford County Federated Library System (
http://www.ccfls.org  )
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---
Maritime heritage and history, preservation and

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Paul A


At 08:18 AM 9/19/2016 -0400, Kyle Hall wrote:

Thanks for the feedback Stefano!
Please, if anybody is *against* the use of React in Koha, please voice 
your concerns!


Question: what has Facebook added to js that we could not use as "regular" 
js? Not a show stopper, but our "gut feeling" (not fully documented, but 
more than anecdotal) is that all js code, given its standalone capability, 
has a more than proportional speed downside. And I'm not going near the 
licensing questions.


If I understand this bug 17297 ("low enhancement") correctly, it refines 
itemnotes by adding granularity. If this is a "good thing", can the 
original coding be improved? Add an auth value? If we need js, how optional 
might this be? (do we know how many Koha users are truly interested?)


I've always been impressed by Koha core speed, and without using such 
expressions as "mission creep" (or heaven forfend, code bloat) I truly 
recognize that enhancements are a real life necessity. Just wondering how 
and where they are best added while maintaining the KISS principle...


Best -- Paul



Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( 
http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( 
http://www.ccfls.org )


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni 
<bargi...@pusc.it> wrote:

My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.
Stefano

On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall 
<kyle.m.h...@gmail.com> wrote:


I have my proof of concept for usingÂ ReactÂ within Koha completed! You 
can see it here:Â 
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297


Please give it a try!

So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular 
andÂ React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.


1) It's much easier to think inÂ ReactÂ than in Angular.Â ReactÂ is for 
the most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. 
They saying goesÂ ReactÂ is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think 
the flexibility ofÂ ReactÂ works well within the Koha ecosystem.


2) WritingÂ ReactÂ feels much more like programming. I think it's much 
faster to develop reactive and ajax features inÂ ReactÂ than it is using 
jQuery.


3)Â ReactÂ makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to 
a given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on 
multiple pages would make for a goodÂ ReactÂ widget. Think the holds 
table which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is 
ajaxified now, but a far far cleaner version could be written inÂ React.


4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many 
pieces we don't really need.


I thinkÂ ReactÂ is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but 
for Koha in particular, I thinkÂ ReactÂ is a better fit. I think we 
really need to get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has 
opinions, please let everyone know!


Kyle


http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( 
http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( 
http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( 
http://www.ccfls.org )

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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Jonathan Druart

Hi Kyle;

Thanks for this example.
Would it be possible to see a working example to fully understand what
you have in mind?

Cheers,
Jonathan

2016-09-15 19:22 GMT+02:00 Kyle Hall :
> I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha completed! You can
> see it here: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297
>
> Please give it a try!
>
> So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular and
> React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
>
> 1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is for the most
> part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They saying
> goes React is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the flexibility of
> React works well within the Koha ecosystem.
>
> 2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's much faster
> to develop reactive and ajax features in React than it is using jQuery.
>
> 3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a
> given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on
> multiple pages would make for a good React widget. Think the holds table
> which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified
> now, but a far far cleaner version could be written in React.
>
> 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many
> pieces we don't really need.
>
> I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for
> Koha in particular, I think React is a better fit. I think we really need to
> get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions, please
> let everyone know!
>
> Kyle
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
> ___
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> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Owen Leonard

> Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another thing to
> throw on the stack.

Isn't this the kind of dependency requirement that killed my request
to introduce a front-end build tool like Grunt or Gulp?

  -- Owen

-- 
Web Developer
Athens County Public Libraries
http://www.myacpl.org
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Rodrigo Santellan

Arthur,

I believe that foundation is an alternative to bootstrap. React JS is on
the league of backbone, angular and ember.

I have use React JS on a project and the best thing about it is the
possibility of rewrite really small parts of the page. Create small widget
to increase the functionality and keep turning the old page in a new way.
One of the best thing for me about react is that is only frontend
development so it has less impact on a migration and you can really
decouple the backend.

My cons are that the documentation is not that good, they want you to write
the new code on ES6 but there is not that much documentation on that.
Another thing is that you need nodejs to compile it so is another thing to
throw on the stack.

Just my grain of sand!

Cheers!

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:59 AM, SUZUKI Arthur 
wrote:

> Since you're talking about JS/CSS Frameworks, what about Foundation?
> http://foundation.zurb.com/
> This one is cool too!
> Best regards,
> Arthur Suzuki
> University Jean Moulin Lyon 3
>
>
> Le 19/09/2016 à 14:33, Philippe Blouin a écrit :
>
> Can I not be against, yet still have concerns?  :)
>
> I'm glad you so gallantly dumped Angular, which I would have raised my
> hand Against since that thing obsolete past code every 6 months.  But I do
> not know React.  Could you sell me more the big plusses to do that.  What
> will it replace, do you have an example?  What about all the code waiting
> approval right now, will it become obsolete because non-Reactive ?
>
> All the big previous changes (bootstrap, dbix...) were not without pain,
> espeicially for those outside the core, not coding these technologies 24/7.
>
> And how do you see React evolving in the next 5 years?  Keeping up with
> bootstrap requires huge effort (if/when we upgrade).
>
> Again, I know little.  Please don't ask me if I'm against, but give me
> your big sales pitch. :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Philippe Blouin,
> Responsable du développement informatique
>
> Tél.  : (888) 604-2627
> philippe.blo...@inlibro.com
> inLibro | pour esprit libre | www.inLibro.com
> On 09/19/2016 08:18 AM, Kyle Hall wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback Stefano!
>
> Please, if anybody is *against* the use of React in Koha, please voice
> your concerns!
>
> Kyle
>
>
> 
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni 
> wrote:
>
>> My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.
>> Stefano
>>
>> On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall  wrote:
>>
>> I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha completed! You
>> can see it here: 
>> https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297
>>
>>
>> Please give it a try!
>>
>> So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular
>> and React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
>>
>> 1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is for the
>> most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They
>> saying goes React is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the
>> flexibility of React works well within the Koha ecosystem.
>>
>> 2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's much
>> faster to develop reactive and ajax features in React than it is using
>> jQuery.
>>
>> 3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a
>> given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on
>> multiple pages would make for a good React widget. Think the holds table
>> which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified
>> now, but a far far cleaner version could be written in React.
>>
>> 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many
>> pieces we don't really need.
>>
>> I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for
>> Koha in particular, I think React is a better fit. I think we really
>> need to get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions,
>> please let everyone know!
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>>
>> http://www.kylehall.info
>> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
>> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
>> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>> ___
>> Koha-devel mailing list
>> Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
>> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
>> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
>> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread SUZUKI Arthur


Since you're talking about JS/CSS Frameworks, what about Foundation?
http://foundation.zurb.com/
This one is cool too!
Best regards,
Arthur Suzuki
University Jean Moulin Lyon 3

Le 19/09/2016 à 14:33, Philippe Blouin a écrit :

Can I not be against, yet still have concerns?  :)

I'm glad you so gallantly dumped Angular, which I would have raised my 
hand Against since that thing obsolete past code every 6 months.  But 
I do not know React.  Could you sell me more the big plusses to do 
that.  What will it replace, do you have an example?  What about all 
the code waiting approval right now, will it become obsolete because 
non-Reactive ?


All the big previous changes (bootstrap, dbix...) were not without 
pain, espeicially for those outside the core, not coding these 
technologies 24/7.


And how do you see React evolving in the next 5 years?  Keeping up 
with bootstrap requires huge effort (if/when we upgrade).


Again, I know little.  Please don't ask me if I'm against, but give me 
your big sales pitch. :)


Cheers,

Philippe Blouin,
Responsable du développement informatique

Tél.  : (888) 604-2627
philippe.blo...@inlibro.com 

inLibro | pour esprit libre | www.inLibro.com 
On 09/19/2016 08:18 AM, Kyle Hall wrote:

Thanks for the feedback Stefano!

Please, if anybody is *against* the use of React in Koha, please 
voice your concerns!


Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni  
wrote:


My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than
Javascript.
Stefano


On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall  wrote:

I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha
completed! You can see it here:
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297

Please give it a try!

So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both
Angular and React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my
thoughts so far.

1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is
for the most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated
than Angular. They saying goes React is Javascript and Angular
is Angular. I think the flexibility of React works well within
the Koha ecosystem.

2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's
much faster to develop reactive and ajax features in React than
it is using jQuery.

3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop
in to a given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that
shows up on multiple pages would make for a good React widget.
Think the holds table which is on the checkouts page and the
patron details page. It is ajaxified now, but a far far cleaner
version could be written in React.

4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework
with many pieces we don't really need.

I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular
but for Koha in particular, I think React is a better fit. I
think we really need to get this decision made as soon as
possible. If anyone has opinions, please let everyone know!

Kyle


http://www.kylehall.info 
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Philippe Blouin


Can I not be against, yet still have concerns?  :)

I'm glad you so gallantly dumped Angular, which I would have raised my 
hand Against since that thing obsolete past code every 6 months. But I 
do not know React.  Could you sell me more the big plusses to do that.  
What will it replace, do you have an example?  What about all the code 
waiting approval right now, will it become obsolete because non-Reactive ?


All the big previous changes (bootstrap, dbix...) were not without pain, 
espeicially for those outside the core, not coding these technologies 24/7.


And how do you see React evolving in the next 5 years?  Keeping up with 
bootstrap requires huge effort (if/when we upgrade).


Again, I know little.  Please don't ask me if I'm against, but give me 
your big sales pitch. :)


Cheers,

Philippe Blouin,
Responsable du développement informatique

Tél.  : (888) 604-2627
philippe.blo...@inlibro.com 

inLibro | pour esprit libre | www.inLibro.com 
On 09/19/2016 08:18 AM, Kyle Hall wrote:

Thanks for the feedback Stefano!

Please, if anybody is *against* the use of React in Koha, please voice 
your concerns!


Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni > wrote:


My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than
Javascript.
Stefano


On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall > wrote:

I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha completed!
You can see it here:
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297


Please give it a try!

So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both
Angular and React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my
thoughts so far.

1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is
for the most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than
Angular. They saying goes React is Javascript and Angular is
Angular. I think the flexibility of React works well within the
Koha ecosystem.

2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's
much faster to develop reactive and ajax features in React than
it is using jQuery.

3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop
in to a given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that
shows up on multiple pages would make for a good React widget.
Think the holds table which is on the checkouts page and the
patron details page. It is ajaxified now, but a far far cleaner
version could be written in React.

4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework
with many pieces we don't really need.

I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular
but for Koha in particular, I think React is a better fit. I
think we really need to get this decision made as soon as
possible. If anyone has opinions, please let everyone know!

Kyle


http://www.kylehall.info 
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com
 )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org
 )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org
 )
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-19 Thread Kyle Hall

Thanks for the feedback Stefano!

Please, if anybody is *against* the use of React in Koha, please voice your
concerns!

Kyle



http://www.kylehall.info
ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Stefano Bargioni  wrote:

> My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.
> Stefano
>
> On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall  wrote:
>
> I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha completed! You can
> see it here: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.
> cgi?id=17297
>
> Please give it a try!
>
> So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular and
> React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
>
> 1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is for the
> most part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They
> saying goes React is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the
> flexibility of React works well within the Koha ecosystem.
>
> 2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's much
> faster to develop reactive and ajax features in React than it is using
> jQuery.
>
> 3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a
> given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on
> multiple pages would make for a good React widget. Think the holds table
> which is on the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified
> now, but a far far cleaner version could be written in React.
>
> 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many
> pieces we don't really need.
>
> I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for
> Koha in particular, I think React is a better fit. I think we really need
> to get this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions,
> please let everyone know!
>
> Kyle
>
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
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>
>
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Re: [Koha-devel] To React or not to React

2016-09-16 Thread Stefano Bargioni

My +1 for React. Angular requires a specific skill, other than Javascript.
Stefano

> On 15 set 2016, at 19:22, Kyle Hall  wrote:
> 
> I have my proof of concept for using React within Koha completed! You can see 
> it here: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17297 
> 
> 
> Please give it a try!
> 
> So, I've written this development ( at least in part ) in both Angular and 
> React. I know Angular 2 is out but here are my thoughts so far.
> 
> 1) It's much easier to think in React than in Angular. React is for the most 
> part just Javascript. It's far less opinionated than Angular. They saying 
> goes React is Javascript and Angular is Angular. I think the flexibility of 
> React works well within the Koha ecosystem.
> 
> 2) Writing React feels much more like programming. I think it's much faster 
> to develop reactive and ajax features in React than it is using jQuery.
> 
> 3) React makes it pretty easy to create widgets that we can drop in to a 
> given page and have just work. Pretty much anything that shows up on multiple 
> pages would make for a good React widget. Think the holds table which is on 
> the checkouts page and the patron details page. It is ajaxified now, but a 
> far far cleaner version could be written in React.
> 
> 4) React is just a view layer. Angular is a full MVC framework with many 
> pieces we don't really need.
> 
> I think React is probably the way to go for Koha. I like Angular but for Koha 
> in particular, I think React is a better fit. I think we really need to get 
> this decision made as soon as possible. If anyone has opinions, please let 
> everyone know!
> 
> Kyle
> 
> 
> http://www.kylehall.info 
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com 
>  )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org 
>  )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org 
>  )
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> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
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