Thanks to Jane Partridge and Adele Shaak for their replies to my conundrum.
Adele is correct that Regency lace had no gimp on the outside, but did have
gimp on the inside around little holes. I have always thought that this showed
a preview of what would be later tried in Bedfordshire Maltese. Rege
Devon - I am without my lace books at the moment, so I can’t give you any
citations. But there is a type of lace that was done in the early 19th
century, that is a point ground with no gimp on the outside of the motifs. In
the books I have, it was called “Regency Lace” - probably a reference to
the
I'm wondering if it might be a machine made lace. I think some had the gimp
outline sewn in by hand later.
Jane Partridge
From: owner-l...@arachne.com on behalf of DevonThein
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2023 3:51:01 PM
To: Lace Arachne
Subject: [lace]
Thanks to all who responded with helpful hints regarding my request for access
to the museum of Halas lace, and also Arlene Scaroni.
On another note. I have encountered a lace in the Met collection which is a
point ground without any gimp.
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/214651
Plea
Hello Devon and everyone
The OIDFA publication, The Point Ground Study Book, is an excellent
resource, compares by chart details of about 25 unique point Ground styles
including pre- and post-1900 Tønder. It might not answer all your questions
but it's a start.
Re the term Copenhagen hole, I came
PS: The currently published diagrams also have many mistakes. Keep an
eye on the page history for updates:
https://github.com/d-bl/GroundForge/commits/master/docs/help/Whiting-Index.md
Note also https://d-bl.github.io/GroundForge/help/Whiting-Index
On Mar 2, 2019, at 5:09 AM, Maria Greil wro
Note also https://d-bl.github.io/GroundForge/help/Whiting-Index
this page adds diagrams to many of the patterns. Please have patience
for the project to complete. We do have some more patterns on the shelve
that are not yet published.
Jo
On Mar 2, 2019, at 5:09 AM, Maria Greil wrote:
Hav
Thank you Maria! I’m embarrassed to admit that I hadn’t used the Whiting
resource until you sent the links. It seems like I’ve only scratched the
surface in regard to English point ground so making samples & getting feedback
from Arachne has advanced my understanding. Meanwhile, I can’t count!
Hello Susan.
When I read your e-mail I was really surprised to know how much you know
about English point ground lace.
Have you tried at arizona university (book by Gertrude Whiting)? You may
get some useful information there, although it is a bit old and maybe most
of the info of the stitches book
There’s a ton of info packed into this small book so thanks again to all who
recommended it. It will be returned to the IOLI library shortly in case anyone
else wants to steep themselves in the minutiae of point ground—definitely worth
a read. The bibliography alone is amazing & I accidentally
I am looking at a piece in our collection. It says it is early 19th century
Belgian lace, Mechlin.
The background is Mechlin, but the Mechlin ground is widely spaced, like a
19th century Mechlin. One curious thing is that there is a ground that at
first looks like honeycomb. But, in fact, it is mor
Hi Annette
I have found this discussion very interesting, especially only pricking
alternate holes. I can see how this would work, I must try it. However, it
still does not give proof that the point lace was made without any pins
supporting the ground. Surely no lace worker would go to the trouble
The Librarian/Book Reviewer will weigh in, having read correspondence to
date on this subject. There is an OIDFA publication: Point Ground Lace - A
Comparative Study, 2001, 57 pages, ISBN 0 95406960-9, in
English/French/German, printed in England. Let me share what prompted the
work that
Just because he studied them in the early 1800s I would think they started
before quite a while before then. A question to the curator at the Lace Guild
may well help. Or maybe look at Santina Leveys book, Lace, as she was at the V
& A in London for many years. Although their lace collectio
Devon, Thank you for correcting this. I am away from my books at the
moment. It makes much more sense that he studied the point ground laces in
the early 1800s, when there is no question they were made. Another sample
of disinformation in some of the old articles.
Karen - in sunny and cool Delaware
This topic is covered in Lace Machines and Machine Laces by Pat Earnshaw, p.
66 and p. 67. This claims that John Heathcoat was born in 1783 (not 1732!) and
died in 1861. The first warp frame making marketable net, which resembled
knitting, was made in 1795 when Heathcoat was 12. He seems to have re
Lorelei,
I agree completely. I have never read anywhere that the lace made in
Buckingham in 1750 was point ground. What made me pause on this article was
that Mr. Heathcoat supposedly learned to make lace from the Buckingham lace
makers around 1753 and imitated the point ground on his Loughborough
evidence of what that
lace looked like.
Lorelei
From: Karen Thompson [mailto:karenhthomp...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:27 PM
To: Lorelei Halley
Cc: devonth...@gmail.com; Nancy Neff ; Arachne
Subject: Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces
-
To unsubscribe send email to majord
Thank you for the comments on the point ground. Hopefully there will be
more. As Devon and Lorelei say, it makes sense that due to fashion changes
in the late 1700s to much simpler and lighter laces and clothes in general,
the point ground provided a lighter background for the motifs. At the same
t
I agree with Devon
Lorelei
-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
devonth...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:33 PM
To: Nancy Neff ; Karen Thompson
; Arachne
Subject: RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces
Dear Karen,
It
achne
Subject: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces
It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about
Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the conversation can
continue with point ground. So far, I have not been able to find a date
(approximate) for the start of
7;real' angles might have been.
I would love to see what you come up with though on the
point ground issue!
Take care and talk to you soon.
bobbi
-Original Message-
From: Karen Thompson
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:55 PM
To: Nancy Neff
Cc: Arachne
Subject: Re: [lace] Lace: Point
The angles of the samples are anywhere from about 33 to 68, sometimes in
the same piece! Some of this might be due to distortion of the samples
between being made in 1789 and being mounted on acid-free board in the
1970s or 1980s at the Library of Congress. Or the prickings might have been
distorte
Dear Karen,
It would not seem that it would be that hard to find out something like this,
yet I have been looking in my books for confirmation of my gut feeling about
it, and am surprised at how difficult it is to verify.
My gut feeling is that it arose in the last two decades of the 18th century
w
Hi Karen,
What are the angles of the grounds in the Ipswich lace samples?
Nancy
Connecticut, USA
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Karen Thompson
wrote:
> It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about
> Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the convers
It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about
Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the conversation
can continue with point ground. So far, I have not been able to find a date
(approximate) for the start of point ground laces. The closest I have come
is l
At 08:15 PM 27/10/2014, Achim Siebert wrote:
> Yes. You're missing the fact that there's one or sometimes 2
gimps between the areas of half stitch - but that's all.
Accoring to Ulrike Voelcker, this should be done with 2 twists
before the gimp and 1 twist behind to give the best looks. The
t
On Oct 25, 2014, at 5:21 AM, David C COLLYER wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> I have a question which I think will prove difficult to put into words.
>
> If you are working 2 half stitch motifs side by side, or perhaps passing a
pair of bobbins backwards and forwards over the vein in a leaf, do you give
> Yes. You're missing the fact that there's one or sometimes 2 gimps between
> the areas of half stitch - but that's all.
Accoring to Ulrike Voelcker, this should be done with 2 twists before the gimp
and 1 twist behind to give the best looks. The threads will keep their
direction and the gimp
I agree, I would not give any extra twists to the passives.
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 26, 2014, at 11:15 AM, David C COLLYER wrote:
>
>
>> Clay,
>>
>> However, I have found that in Binche, when I have long stretches of
>> half-stitch, punctuated by gimps, the more pressing need is to be c
Hi David:
I think I’ve got it now. If it’s a leaf with just a gimp or two acting as a
vein, then I don’t even think of the situation as being two areas of half
stitch separated by a vein. I think of it as one area with a gimp placed
decoratively across it, and if that is the case I would prefer
Clay,
However, I have found that in Binche, when I have long stretches of
half-stitch, punctuated by gimps, the more pressing need is to be
certain that the same bobbin is leading through all of this, so that
giant holes don't appear when tensioning "downstream", so to
speak. In cases like t
David, I've been chewing on this since reading your initial post. I have run
into this question while working Binche. I think there are a couple of ways to
look at it. First, an extra twist does define the separate sections of
Half-stitch. If you have a gimp in the mix, then it makes sense t
Adele,
I would have to see a picture of the two techniques to understand
exactly what you're talking about. It seems to me that if you have,
say, a half-stitch diamond next to another half-stitch diamond and
you don't put on at least 1 extra twist, the two half-stitch areas
would just become o
Hi David:
I would have to see a picture of the two techniques to understand exactly what
you’re talking about. It seems to me that if you have, say, a half-stitch
diamond next to another half-stitch diamond and you don’t put on at least 1
extra twist, the two half-stitch areas would just become
Dear Friends,
I have a question which I think will prove difficult to put into words.
If you are working 2 half stitch motifs side by side, or perhaps
passing a pair of bobbins backwards and forwards over the vein in a
leaf, do you give that pair a twist or not before including it in the
other
Thank you Jacquie. It is so nice to hear someone praising other skilled
persons.
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:15 AM, wrote:
> Talking about Point Ground Laces, which we were as Jenny has just started
> doing Bucks Point, this month's Artefact of the Month picture from The Lace
> Guild (free to eve
Talking about Point Ground Laces, which we were as Jenny has just started
doing Bucks Point, this month's Artefact of the Month picture from The Lace
Guild (free to everyone who asks) is a beautiful black machine lace Chantilly
shawl.
Absolutely stunning and it demonstrates that we shouldn't
My philosophy (or is it Maureen's??) is simple Can you live with
it? If not then by all means take it back, if you can, then carry on
regardless!! Maureens favourite phrase (apart from "I saw me do that"
ask her, not me)... is 'can you fudge it??'
Sue in East Yorkshire
On 3 Jun 2011,
David, in my book thats perfectly acceptable, I always tell my friends that
I teach that its no good learning to make lace well if you don't learn how
to cheat. There is no point in taking out perfectly good work to try and
discover where the extra pair came from - just lose it any way that suits
y
Been there...done that. In a complicated lace piece, when I come up with an
extra pair of bobbins, I don't want to spend a lot of time undoing things. A
few stitches...OK, but not lots. I just throw back the most expendable two
threads and just keep going. Sooner or later, I'll come to a pla
Dear Friends,
I was working on my Chantilly today and wondered what some of you
might do when you find yourself in the situation I did.
This piece is very fine and sometimes the dots are virtually on top
of each other. I was in the middle of a large open area of plain
point ground when sudde
I always thought the name "Point Ground" came after, and from, Buckspoint. I
assumed it was meant as a general term for "Buckspoint and Buckspoint-like"
family of laces. "Point" was used for a lot of kinds of stitching, not just
needlepoint, petit point (both embroideries), and gros point (nee
Dear Friends,
As I laboured away with love and forbearance on my Chantilly today, I
began to ponder on the origin of the use of the word "point" when it
came to describing a ground, or indeed as in needle point etc. etc.
Why would such a ground be designated a "point ground" rather than
say u
Thank you for your input, Lorelei. I agree completely, including with your
assessment of Palliser.
Of the 21 preserved black silk Ipswich laces from 1789-90 from Ipswich,
Massachusetts in Library of Congress, almost half uses kat stitch ground and
the rest some variation of Brussels/Torchon ground.
Karen
Palliser was the first lace writer in English who tried to write as a scholar,
giving sources for her statements. But I would still be cautious about
accepting her statements as facts.
I have come across statements that point ground began in the last quarter of
the 1700s, but I have never s
I am new to Arachne, so the following question might have been addressed.
One of the Ipswich lace samples from 1790 in the US Library of Congress has
point ground (cttt.) as a filling, and none as a ground. So far in
researching the beginning of point ground used as a ground I found in
Palliser,
*A
Hi David
Re - I'm currently working on a narrow point ground edging where the
actual point ground is only 7 pins diagonally. I've always
I have tried many ways of speeding up making ground. I cannot make it without
pins, it does not look right. When using cotton thread I can only make three
stitc
Hi Arachnids
I usually make three point ground stitches before setting the pins, any more
and I find the tension required makes the holes too angular. It's all a
question of how we individually handle threads and the effect we are working
towards.
Happy lacemaking
alex
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To unsubscribe send ema
I asked for, and received, this book for Christmas a couple of years ago
because I love all point ground laces. My family was amazed that I was so
happy with it because they were very disappointed when they looked at it! It's
definitely a study book, not a coffee table book!
Diane Willia
Hi all -
There is a wonderful study book on the point ground laces published by OIDFA
"Point Ground Lace - A Comparative Study" - ISBN 0 95406960 9
The book is in chart form listing *23 distinct point ground laces* in 13
regional groupings, including Tønder pre- and post-1900, and Vanha Rauma,
pre
Pompi has asked me to forward this to the list - at
last a definitive answer on this, at least for one
major type of pg lace.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Re point Ground with out pins - Downton Lace -there
are a number of prickings with out pinholes in the
ground in the collection of Downton Lace prickin
Sue W
Please look at one of the pages in my website for photos of various kinds of
"point ground" lace.
http://www.loreleihalley.com/identification.htm Point ground is one of
the styles of bobbin lace which was made in many countries of Europe during
the 19th century. Each nation's variant h
>
> Perhaps someone who has taken this class before can give you more specific
> information. I have no idea exactly what these butterflies are
> like. Sounds interesting.
>
The butterflies are new. I saw the photos for the book when Ulrike was in
Chicago in March. They are beautiful - in colou
At 07:53 AM 5/4/2004, you wrote:
Can someone tell me what this lace is or where I can see samples of it. I
love butterflies and I see that there is a class at the Ithaca Lace days
doing a
butterfly with Point Ground. I already have my hotel reservation and hope to
be able to take a class also.
T
Can someone tell me what this lace is or where I can see samples of it. I
love butterflies and I see that there is a class at the Ithaca Lace days doing a
butterfly with Point Ground. I already have my hotel reservation and hope to
be able to take a class also.
Thanks for your help.
SueW
Morri
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