RE: [lace] point ground with no gimp

Thanks to Jane Partridge and Adele Shaak for their replies to my conundrum. Adele is correct that Regency lace had no gimp on the outside, but did have gimp on the inside around little holes. I have always thought that this showed a preview of what would be later tried in Bedfordshire Maltese.

Re: [lace] point ground with no gimp

Devon - I am without my lace books at the moment, so I can’t give you any citations. But there is a type of lace that was done in the early 19th century, that is a point ground with no gimp on the outside of the motifs. In the books I have, it was called “Regency Lace” - probably a reference to

Re: [lace] point ground with no gimp

I'm wondering if it might be a machine made lace. I think some had the gimp outline sewn in by hand later. Jane Partridge From: owner-l...@arachne.com on behalf of DevonThein Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2023 3:51:01 PM To: Lace Arachne Subject: [lace] point

[lace] point ground with no gimp

Thanks to all who responded with helpful hints regarding my request for access to the museum of Halas lace, and also Arlene Scaroni. On another note. I have encountered a lace in the Met collection which is a point ground without any gimp. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/214651

[lace] Point Ground Study Book

Hello Devon and everyone The OIDFA publication, The Point Ground Study Book, is an excellent resource, compares by chart details of about 25 unique point Ground styles including pre- and post-1900 Tønder. It might not answer all your questions but it's a start. Re the term Copenhagen hole, I

Re: [lace] Point Ground Lace, a Comparative Study

PS: The currently published diagrams also have many mistakes. Keep an eye on the page history for updates: https://github.com/d-bl/GroundForge/commits/master/docs/help/Whiting-Index.md Note also https://d-bl.github.io/GroundForge/help/Whiting-Index On Mar 2, 2019, at 5:09 AM, Maria Greil

Re: [lace] Point Ground Lace, a Comparative Study

Note also https://d-bl.github.io/GroundForge/help/Whiting-Index this page adds diagrams to many of the patterns. Please have patience for the project to complete. We do have some more patterns on the shelve that are not yet published. Jo On Mar 2, 2019, at 5:09 AM, Maria Greil wrote:

Re: [lace] Point Ground Lace, a Comparative Study

Thank you Maria! I’m embarrassed to admit that I hadn’t used the Whiting resource until you sent the links. It seems like I’ve only scratched the surface in regard to English point ground so making samples & getting feedback from Arachne has advanced my understanding. Meanwhile, I can’t count!

Re: [lace] Point Ground Lace, a Comparative Study

Hello Susan. When I read your e-mail I was really surprised to know how much you know about English point ground lace. Have you tried at arizona university (book by Gertrude Whiting)? You may get some useful information there, although it is a bit old and maybe most of the info of the stitches

[lace] Point Ground Lace, a Comparative Study

There’s a ton of info packed into this small book so thanks again to all who recommended it. It will be returned to the IOLI library shortly in case anyone else wants to steep themselves in the minutiae of point ground—definitely worth a read. The bibliography alone is amazing & I accidentally

[lace] point ground honeycomb? in Mechlin

I am looking at a piece in our collection. It says it is early 19th century Belgian lace, Mechlin. The background is Mechlin, but the Mechlin ground is widely spaced, like a 19th century Mechlin. One curious thing is that there is a ground that at first looks like honeycomb. But, in fact, it is

[lace] Point ground

Hi Annette I have found this discussion very interesting, especially only pricking alternate holes. I can see how this would work, I must try it. However, it still does not give proof that the point lace was made without any pins supporting the ground. Surely no lace worker would go to the

Re: [lace] Point Ground laces - research book

The Librarian/Book Reviewer will weigh in, having read correspondence to date on this subject. There is an OIDFA publication: Point Ground Lace - A Comparative Study, 2001, 57 pages, ISBN 0 95406960-9, in English/French/German, printed in England. Let me share what prompted the work that

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Just because he studied them in the early 1800s I would think they started before quite a while before then. A question to the curator at the Lace Guild may well help. Or maybe look at Santina Leveys book, Lace, as she was at the V & A in London for many years. Although their lace

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Devon, Thank you for correcting this. I am away from my books at the moment. It makes much more sense that he studied the point ground laces in the early 1800s, when there is no question they were made. Another sample of disinformation in some of the old articles. Karen - in sunny and cool

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

This topic is covered in Lace Machines and Machine Laces by Pat Earnshaw, p. 66 and p. 67. This claims that John Heathcoat was born in 1783 (not 1732!) and died in 1861. The first warp frame making marketable net, which resembled knitting, was made in 1795 when Heathcoat was 12. He seems to have

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Lorelei, I agree completely. I have never read anywhere that the lace made in Buckingham in 1750 was point ground. What made me pause on this article was that Mr. Heathcoat supposedly learned to make lace from the Buckingham lace makers around 1753 and imitated the point ground on his Loughborough

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Subject: Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Thank you for the comments on the point ground. Hopefully there will be more. As Devon and Lorelei say, it makes sense that due to fashion changes in the late 1700s to much simpler and lighter laces and clothes in general, the point ground provided a lighter background for the motifs. At the same

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

rachne <lace@arachne.com> Subject: RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces Dear Karen, It would not seem that it would be that hard to find out something like this, yet I have been looking in my books for confirmation of my gut feeling about it, and am surprised at how difficult it is to veri

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

<lace@arachne.com> Subject: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the conversation can continue with point ground. So far, I have not been able to find a date (appro

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

gles might have been. I would love to see what you come up with though on the point ground issue! Take care and talk to you soon. bobbi -Original Message- From: Karen Thompson Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:55 PM To: Nancy Neff Cc: Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

The angles of the samples are anywhere from about 33 to 68, sometimes in the same piece! Some of this might be due to distortion of the samples between being made in 1789 and being mounted on acid-free board in the 1970s or 1980s at the Library of Congress. Or the prickings might have been

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Dear Karen, It would not seem that it would be that hard to find out something like this, yet I have been looking in my books for confirmation of my gut feeling about it, and am surprised at how difficult it is to verify. My gut feeling is that it arose in the last two decades of the 18th century

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

Hi Karen, What are the angles of the grounds in the Ipswich lace samples? Nancy Connecticut, USA On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Karen Thompson wrote: > It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about > Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and

[lace] Lace: Point ground laces

It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the conversation can continue with point ground. So far, I have not been able to find a date (approximate) for the start of point ground laces. The closest I have come is

Re: [lace] Point ground question

Yes. You're missing the fact that there's one or sometimes 2 gimps between the areas of half stitch - but that's all. Accoring to Ulrike Voelcker, this should be done with 2 twists before the gimp and 1 twist behind to give the best looks. The threads will keep their direction and the gimp

[lace] Point ground question

On Oct 25, 2014, at 5:21 AM, David C COLLYER dccoll...@ncable.net.au wrote: Dear Friends, I have a question which I think will prove difficult to put into words. If you are working 2 half stitch motifs side by side, or perhaps passing a pair of bobbins backwards and forwards over the vein in

Re: [lace] Point ground question

At 08:15 PM 27/10/2014, Achim Siebert wrote: Yes. You're missing the fact that there's one or sometimes 2 gimps between the areas of half stitch - but that's all. Accoring to Ulrike Voelcker, this should be done with 2 twists before the gimp and 1 twist behind to give the best looks. The

Re: [lace] Point ground question

Adele, I would have to see a picture of the two techniques to understand exactly what you're talking about. It seems to me that if you have, say, a half-stitch diamond next to another half-stitch diamond and you don't put on at least 1 extra twist, the two half-stitch areas would just become

Re: [lace] Point ground question

David, I've been chewing on this since reading your initial post. I have run into this question while working Binche. I think there are a couple of ways to look at it. First, an extra twist does define the separate sections of Half-stitch. If you have a gimp in the mix, then it makes sense

Re: [lace] Point ground question

Clay, However, I have found that in Binche, when I have long stretches of half-stitch, punctuated by gimps, the more pressing need is to be certain that the same bobbin is leading through all of this, so that giant holes don't appear when tensioning downstream, so to speak. In cases like

Re: [lace] Point ground question

Hi David: I think I’ve got it now. If it’s a leaf with just a gimp or two acting as a vein, then I don’t even think of the situation as being two areas of half stitch separated by a vein. I think of it as one area with a gimp placed decoratively across it, and if that is the case I would

Re: [lace] Point ground question

I agree, I would not give any extra twists to the passives. Sent from my iPad On Oct 26, 2014, at 11:15 AM, David C COLLYER dccoll...@ncable.net.au wrote: Clay, However, I have found that in Binche, when I have long stretches of half-stitch, punctuated by gimps, the more pressing

[lace] Point ground question

Dear Friends, I have a question which I think will prove difficult to put into words. If you are working 2 half stitch motifs side by side, or perhaps passing a pair of bobbins backwards and forwards over the vein in a leaf, do you give that pair a twist or not before including it in the

Re: [lace] Point ground question

Hi David: I would have to see a picture of the two techniques to understand exactly what you’re talking about. It seems to me that if you have, say, a half-stitch diamond next to another half-stitch diamond and you don’t put on at least 1 extra twist, the two half-stitch areas would just

Re: [lace] Point ground laces

Thank you Jacquie. It is so nice to hear someone praising other skilled persons. On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:15 AM, laceandb...@aol.com wrote: Talking about Point Ground Laces, which we were as Jenny has just started doing Bucks Point, this month's Artefact of the Month picture from The Lace

Re: [lace] Point ground question

My philosophy (or is it Maureen's??) is simple Can you live with it? If not then by all means take it back, if you can, then carry on regardless!! Maureens favourite phrase (apart from I saw me do that ask her, not me)... is 'can you fudge it??' Sue in East Yorkshire On 3 Jun 2011,

[lace] Point ground question

Dear Friends, I was working on my Chantilly today and wondered what some of you might do when you find yourself in the situation I did. This piece is very fine and sometimes the dots are virtually on top of each other. I was in the middle of a large open area of plain point ground when

Re: [lace] Point ground question

Been there...done that. In a complicated lace piece, when I come up with an extra pair of bobbins, I don't want to spend a lot of time undoing things. A few stitches...OK, but not lots. I just throw back the most expendable two threads and just keep going. Sooner or later, I'll come to a

RE: [lace] Point ground question

David, in my book thats perfectly acceptable, I always tell my friends that I teach that its no good learning to make lace well if you don't learn how to cheat. There is no point in taking out perfectly good work to try and discover where the extra pair came from - just lose it any way that suits

[lace] Point Ground Origins

Dear Friends, As I laboured away with love and forbearance on my Chantilly today, I began to ponder on the origin of the use of the word point when it came to describing a ground, or indeed as in needle point etc. etc. Why would such a ground be designated a point ground rather than say

Re: [lace] Point Ground Origins

I always thought the name Point Ground came after, and from, Buckspoint. I assumed it was meant as a general term for Buckspoint and Buckspoint-like family of laces. Point was used for a lot of kinds of stitching, not just needlepoint, petit point (both embroideries), and gros point

[lace] Point ground

Thank you for your input, Lorelei. I agree completely, including with your assessment of Palliser. Of the 21 preserved black silk Ipswich laces from 1789-90 from Ipswich, Massachusetts in Library of Congress, almost half uses kat stitch ground and the rest some variation of Brussels/Torchon

[lace] Point ground

Karen Palliser was the first lace writer in English who tried to write as a scholar, giving sources for her statements. But I would still be cautious about accepting her statements as facts. I have come across statements that point ground began in the last quarter of the 1700s, but I have never

[lace] Point ground

Hi David Re - I'm currently working on a narrow point ground edging where the actual point ground is only 7 pins diagonally. I've always I have tried many ways of speeding up making ground. I cannot make it without pins, it does not look right. When using cotton thread I can only make three

[lace] point ground

Hi Arachnids I usually make three point ground stitches before setting the pins, any more and I find the tension required makes the holes too angular. It's all a question of how we individually handle threads and the effect we are working towards. Happy lacemaking alex - To unsubscribe send

[lace] point ground laces resource was antique Toender pattern

Hi all - There is a wonderful study book on the point ground laces published by OIDFA Point Ground Lace - A Comparative Study - ISBN 0 95406960 9 The book is in chart form listing *23 distinct point ground laces* in 13 regional groupings, including Tønder pre- and post-1900, and Vanha Rauma, pre-

Re: [lace] point ground laces resource was antique Toender pattern

I asked for, and received, this book for Christmas a couple of years ago because I love all point ground laces. My family was amazed that I was so happy with it because they were very disappointed when they looked at it! It's definitely a study book, not a coffee table book! Diane

[lace] Point ground without pins - Downton lace

Pompi has asked me to forward this to the list - at last a definitive answer on this, at least for one major type of pg lace. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re point Ground with out pins - Downton Lace -there are a number of prickings with out pinholes in the ground in the collection of Downton Lace

[lace] Point Ground ?

Can someone tell me what this lace is or where I can see samples of it. I love butterflies and I see that there is a class at the Ithaca Lace days doing a butterfly with Point Ground. I already have my hotel reservation and hope to be able to take a class also. Thanks for your help. SueW

Re: [lace] Point Ground ?

At 07:53 AM 5/4/2004, you wrote: Can someone tell me what this lace is or where I can see samples of it. I love butterflies and I see that there is a class at the Ithaca Lace days doing a butterfly with Point Ground. I already have my hotel reservation and hope to be able to take a class also.

Re: [lace] Point Ground ?

Perhaps someone who has taken this class before can give you more specific information. I have no idea exactly what these butterflies are like. Sounds interesting. The butterflies are new. I saw the photos for the book when Ulrike was in Chicago in March. They are beautiful - in colour -

[lace] point ground

Sue W Please look at one of the pages in my website for photos of various kinds of point ground lace. http://www.loreleihalley.com/identification.htm Point ground is one of the styles of bobbin lace which was made in many countries of Europe during the 19th century. Each nation's variant