[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Mossi Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Any news about that?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 19 במרץ 2024 ב-5:01 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> I have contacted someone on recommendation from the community.
>
> Am Do., 29. Feb. 2024 um 14:13 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>
>> Almost a year later... Does anyone have an idea about finding an expert?
>> The activity is still ok.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 21 במרץ 2023 ב-7:31 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬
>>
>>> I have indeed been in contact with them, and I think everything is
>>> mostly good, but I don't want to skip verification. I have already been
>>> trying to find a linguist who would check it, with no luck yet.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
>>>
>>> ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 13 במרץ 2023 ב-16:30 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
>>> jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to propose the approval of the Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos)
>>>> [1][2]. The activity has been high and stable for several months [3], and
>>>> localization is good [4] (only 17 messages missing out of the most
>>>> important messages, that can be done in no time).
>>>>
>>>> IIRC, Amir has already been in touch with this community quite a lot,
>>>> so I don't think separate verification is necessary in this case, but I'll
>>>> leave that up to him (and the rest of you, if anyone has objections).
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moor%C3%A9
>>>> [3]
>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>>> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> mvh
>>>> Jon Harald Søby
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>>>>
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[Langcom] Re: Georgian Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I posted a notification on Talk:Language committee:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 1 באפר׳ 2024 ב-2:11 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> I agree to the approval.
>
> Sotiale
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>  바이러스가
> 없습니다.www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#m_-705017641947775898_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> 2024년 4월 1일 (월) 오전 9:54, Satdeep Gill 님이 작성:
>
>> Oh yes, definitely!
>>
>> Regards
>> Satdeep Gill
>>
>> On 01-Apr-2024, at 4:34 AM, Amir E. Aharoni 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hello! Many months have passed since August 2023, and the activity now is
>> much higher:
>>
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/?title=Georgian&cat=1&wiki=sourceswiki#distribution_2023-09
>>
>> Can we approve the Georgian Wikisource now?
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 10 באוג׳ 2023 ב-0:17 מאת ‪Jan Wohlgemujth‬‏ <‪
>> spamfil...@janwonet.de‬‏>:‬
>>
>>> I agree with this, too.
>>> Greetings from Depok,
>>> Jan
>>>
>>> Am 2023-08-04 23:19, schrieb Satdeep Gill:
>>> > I agree with the arguments being made in favor of having a different
>>> > criteria for Wikisource and we should create a separate Wikisource for
>>> > Georgian as per what Amir says. I think the Georgian community should
>>> > be able to take ownership of the project and satisfy the criteria
>>> > mentioned by Amir.
>>> >
>>> > Best
>>> >
>>> > Satdeep
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 16:55, Amir E. Aharoni
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I agree with Nicolas and Nataliia. They aren't Langcom members, but
>>> >> their opinion is sensible and well-explained. In Wikisource,
>>> >> stability is not less important than continuous activity.
>>> >>
>>> >> (In Wikinews, each article is supposed to freeze after a short time,
>>> >> but the activity is supposed to be otherwise continuous, unlike in
>>> >> Wikisource, which may become complete in some languages at some
>>> >> point. Whether it actually works in the current editions of Wikinews
>>> >> is a separate discussion.)
>>> >>
>>> >> So I'd say that for practical purposes, if there is a lot of content
>>> >> , and the community is good enough at preventing vandalism to it,
>>> >> that's enough for Wikisource. The current Georgian Wikisource
>>> >> satisfies both criteria: as far as I can see, it has many more pages
>>> >> than any other language in wikisource.org [1], and they aren't being
>>> >> vandalized.
>>> >>
>>> >> בתאריך יום ו׳, 4 באוג׳ 2023, 14:12, מאת Nataliia
>>> >> Tymkiv ‏:
>>> >>
>>> >> True, that community activities are important, and I think that it
>>> >> is important to approve all other projects. But Wikisource is a very
>>> >> different project, where the value would be even in its passive
>>> >> existence. When there are text available in that language -- and
>>> >> there are already a few of them -- the chances of a community being
>>> >> drawn to it are bigger. But in any case value for readers is really
>>> >> big. Maybe the rules should be different for Wikisource because of
>>> >> its different nature (no original text, basically)?
>>> >>
>>> >> Best regards,
>>> >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
>>> >> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>>> >>
>>> >> _NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal
>>> >> working hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during
>>> >> weekend. You should not feel obligated to answer it during your days
>>> >> off. Thank you in advance!_
>>> &

[Langcom] Re: Kanuri or Central Kanuri?

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I can enable knc for translation, but I am wondering: Is there still use
for kr? Will there ever be? Or maybe the kr translations can be moved to
knc? I tried to reach an expert, but didn't succeed.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 9 באפר׳ 2024 ב-2:46 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Please see <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Kanuri>.
> There's an active project at Wp/knc. Interface translation however is not
> enabled for knc, but for kr: , <
> https://codelookup.toolforge.org/kr>.
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[Langcom] Re: Georgian Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hello! Many months have passed since August 2023, and the activity now is
much higher:
https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/?title=Georgian&cat=1&wiki=sourceswiki#distribution_2023-09

Can we approve the Georgian Wikisource now?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 10 באוג׳ 2023 ב-0:17 מאת ‪Jan Wohlgemujth‬‏ <‪
spamfil...@janwonet.de‬‏>:‬

> I agree with this, too.
> Greetings from Depok,
> Jan
>
> Am 2023-08-04 23:19, schrieb Satdeep Gill:
> > I agree with the arguments being made in favor of having a different
> > criteria for Wikisource and we should create a separate Wikisource for
> > Georgian as per what Amir says. I think the Georgian community should
> > be able to take ownership of the project and satisfy the criteria
> > mentioned by Amir.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Satdeep
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 16:55, Amir E. Aharoni
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> I agree with Nicolas and Nataliia. They aren't Langcom members, but
> >> their opinion is sensible and well-explained. In Wikisource,
> >> stability is not less important than continuous activity.
> >>
> >> (In Wikinews, each article is supposed to freeze after a short time,
> >> but the activity is supposed to be otherwise continuous, unlike in
> >> Wikisource, which may become complete in some languages at some
> >> point. Whether it actually works in the current editions of Wikinews
> >> is a separate discussion.)
> >>
> >> So I'd say that for practical purposes, if there is a lot of content
> >> , and the community is good enough at preventing vandalism to it,
> >> that's enough for Wikisource. The current Georgian Wikisource
> >> satisfies both criteria: as far as I can see, it has many more pages
> >> than any other language in wikisource.org [1], and they aren't being
> >> vandalized.
> >>
> >> בתאריך יום ו׳, 4 באוג׳ 2023, 14:12, מאת Nataliia
> >> Tymkiv ‏:
> >>
> >> True, that community activities are important, and I think that it
> >> is important to approve all other projects. But Wikisource is a very
> >> different project, where the value would be even in its passive
> >> existence. When there are text available in that language -- and
> >> there are already a few of them -- the chances of a community being
> >> drawn to it are bigger. But in any case value for readers is really
> >> big. Maybe the rules should be different for Wikisource because of
> >> its different nature (no original text, basically)?
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
> >> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
> >>
> >> _NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal
> >> working hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during
> >> weekend. You should not feel obligated to answer it during your days
> >> off. Thank you in advance!_
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 10:19 AM Sotiale Wiki
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> I am negative for approval. Whether a community is sustainable is
> >> very important, and this has been a consistent criterion.
> >> Of course, it may be a separate issue that this takes into account
> >> the nature of the Wikisource project, but at least for now, no
> >> argument has been made that it should be taken into account.
> >>
> >> If it's just because there are a lot of pages, we should approve all
> >> of them if they've been contributing continuously for a long time
> >> from a small number of users. Or even if there are no such users.
> >> Betawikiversity has a Vietnamese language project with 3211 pages,
> >> which also needs to be approved according to the same criteria. But
> >> no one is running this project right now. I don't think it's
> >> appropriate for this wikiversity incubating project to have an
> >> independent domain. And the Georgian Wikisource also seems to be in
> >> a situation that is not very different when looking at recent
> >> activities.
> >>
> >> I haven't found a good reason to change these acceptance criteria or
> >> consistency. If this is approved, there must be a convincing
> >> explanation for the approval of the project despite questioning the
> >> sustainability of the community. Otherwise, we face demands from
> >> numero

[Langcom] Re: Request for comments on approval of Wikisource Burmese

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Let's approve it. I'm really surprised there's still not full-fledged
Wikisource in this language.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 26 בפבר׳ 2024 ב-22:38 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> This project currently has approximately 3000 pages, excluding template
> and portal namespaces. I think this could be approved, but I'm curious what
> other colleagues think.
>
> [1]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=1&title=Category%3A%E1%80%99%E1%80%BC%E1%80%94%E1%80%BA%E1%80%99%E1%80%AC%E1%80%98%E1%80%AC%E1%80%9E%E1%80%AC&wiki=sourceswiki
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikisource_Burmese
>
> Sotiale
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Mossi Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Almost a year later... Does anyone have an idea about finding an expert?
The activity is still ok.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 21 במרץ 2023 ב-7:31 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬

> I have indeed been in contact with them, and I think everything is mostly
> good, but I don't want to skip verification. I have already been trying to
> find a linguist who would check it, with no luck yet.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 13 במרץ 2023 ב-16:30 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
> jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I would like to propose the approval of the Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos)
>> [1][2]. The activity has been high and stable for several months [3], and
>> localization is good [4] (only 17 messages missing out of the most
>> important messages, that can be done in no time).
>>
>> IIRC, Amir has already been in touch with this community quite a lot, so
>> I don't think separate verification is necessary in this case, but I'll
>> leave that up to him (and the rest of you, if anyone has objections).
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos
>> [2]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moor%C3%A9
>> [3]
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&wiki=incubatorwiki
>> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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>>
>
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Igala Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I agree. Have we ever got an expert check? Intuitively, I have a good
feeling about this, but a check would still be nice.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 26 בינו׳ 2024 ב-10:33 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> They have asked for approval again, and the sustainability of their
> community is very positive.
> Since the random sampling results are not negative, how about discussing
> approval on this again?
>
> Sotiale
>
>
> 
>  바이러스가
> 없습니다.www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_1641041173677584233_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> 2023년 8월 15일 (화) 오전 1:06, MF-Warburg 님이 작성:
>
>> New look at the content - the content imbalance seems to have
>> disappeared, but now a lot of articles I randomly open have large chunks in
>> English.
>>
>> Am Di., 1. Aug. 2023 um 11:01 Uhr schrieb Tochi Precious <
>> tochiprecio...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Thank you Jon
>>> I would recommend we go ahead. Probably the type of content they have at
>>> the moment is what is most important to their audience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tochi
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:40 AM Jon Harald Søby  wrote:
>>>
 Their activity has continued on even stronger in July.

 I don't feel the content imbalance is a problem; it would be nice to
 see more variation in the type of content that is covered, but that will
 come with time. As long as the activity is strong, I'm not worried.

 Shall we go ahead with the approval?



 tor. 22. juni 2023 kl. 08:32 skrev Sotiale Wiki :

> I got an impression similar to what MF-Warburg felt.
> Their activity appears to be stable, so I think they can improve
> enough in a short time.
>
> Sotiale
>
>
> 
>  바이러스가
> 없습니다.www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_1641041173677584233_m_5671066008522576604_m_-2672182608996138318_m_-6512400877061960905_m_-1339218538730517599_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> 2023년 6월 20일 (화) 오전 6:15, MF-Warburg 님이 작성:
>
>> Here again I notice a content imbalance - most articles seem to be
>> about actors, and there are only about 160 of them.
>>
>> Am Di., 13. Juni 2023 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Jon Harald Søby <
>> jhs...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I would like to propose the approval of the Igala Wikipedia (Wp/igl)
>>> [1]. The activity has been high and stable since they properly got 
>>> started
>>> back in January [2], and the localization of the most used messages is
>>> almost complete (only a few messages remaining) [3].
>>>
>>> We will need verification since this is the first Wikimedia project
>>> in this language.
>>>
>>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/igl
>>> [2]
>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/igl&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/igl
>>>
>>> --
>>> mvh
>>> Jon Harald Søby
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>>>
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 --
 mvh
 Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Balochi - one language or more

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

A discussion has been going on for several weeks, mostly at translatewiki,
about which code to use for the Balochi language.

In translatewiki, we already support bgn (Western) and bcc (Southern).
There are quite a lot of translations into both of them. There are also
Incubator Wikipedias in both.

A new user is asking to use "bal", which is the macro language code that
encompasses all varieties of Balochi.

Now, I don't have a strong opinion about it myself, and the Langcom policy
about it says that they are decided on a case-by-case basis. Does anyone
have an opinion?

My intuition tells me that if the varieties are only in speech and there is
just one written language, then we can probably go for the macro language,
but I'm really not sure if that is actually true, and I'm not sure how to
verify it.

Does anyone know?

Thanks!

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: Fon Wikipedia: recommended approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Thanks. I posted about it on Talk:Langcom.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך שבת, 23 בספט׳ 2023 ב-11:22 מאת ‪Tochi Precious‬‏ <‪
tochiprecio...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> + 1 to your recommendation Amir and Anass support. The Fon project
> contributors have done a great job. Looking through their project today and
> they've consistent and added varieties of topics. I also saw the Fon
> language keyboard which was developed to support the project and I
> highly recommend it for approval as well.
>
> Kind regards
> Tochi
>
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:52 PM Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I recommend the approval of the Fon Wikipedia. Incubator link:
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/fon
>>
>> The activity looks good, the Most used messages translation is complete,
>> and I've just forwarded an approval email from an expert tomthe private
>> list.
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[Langcom] Fon Wikipedia: recommended approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi!

I recommend the approval of the Fon Wikipedia. Incubator link:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/fon

The activity looks good, the Most used messages translation is complete,
and I've just forwarded an approval email from an expert tomthe private
list.
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[Langcom] Re: Request for comments on approval of Talysh Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I support it. I already asked a linguist once to check it, and she said
that it's indeed Talysh. I'll forward it to the private list.

בתאריך יום ד׳, 16 באוג׳ 2023, 07:19, מאת Sotiale Wiki ‏:

> Dear Language committee members,
>
> Hi all.
>
> I would like to ask for comments on the approval of *Wp/tly.* It has been
> active since 2012-04, and it has been 7 months that 3 or more editors have
> been active[1]. There are about 9122 pages including templates.
>
> Most important core messages have already been translated(100%)[2]. The
> request has already been submitted[3].
>
> I don't think there is a community sustainability problem for this, and it
> seems that a script or language verification process is needed. It is
> necessary to review whether there are any other language problems.
>
> I would like to ask for your opinion on the approval of this, thank you
> for your consideration.
>
> [1]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/tly&wiki=incubatorwiki
> [2] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/tly
> [3]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Talysh
>
> Kind regards,
> Sotiale
>
>
> 
>  바이러스가
> 없습니다.www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-4001170644839134426_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed change in technical aspect of creating new wikis

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Well, if *this* is the change that reduces it from an unknown and long
period to a predictable time of two hours, I guess it's OK, but are time
zone and logo really the problem? These two particular things are so simple
that even I know how to update them :) (although I almost never *actually*
do that).

Are there any other extra configurations that will be affected?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 16 באוג׳ 2023 ב-0:41 מאת ‪Amir Sarabadani‬‏ <‪
ladsgr...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hi,
> As part of improving the workflow of creating new wikis and making sure
> they are created faster, I'm proposing new wikis creations done by
> sysadmins with default config only. No timezone, no logo, no extra
> configurations.
>
> That would reduce the wiki creation burden from sysadmins so we can get it
> out of the door as fast as possible. Members of langcom or other volunteers
> can set the logo or other pieces afterwards.
>
> With this change and one other small change, we will be basically able to
> create a wiki a couple of hours after the request by langcom.
>
> Any objections?
> --
> Amir (he/him)
>
>
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[Langcom] Re: Georgian Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I agree with Nicolas and Nataliia. They aren't Langcom members, but their
opinion is sensible and well-explained. In Wikisource, stability is not
less important than continuous activity.

(In Wikinews, each article is supposed to freeze after a short time, but
the activity is supposed to be otherwise continuous, unlike in Wikisource,
which may become complete in some languages at some point. Whether it
actually works in the current editions of Wikinews is a separate
discussion.)

So I'd say that for practical purposes, if there is a lot of content , and
the community is good enough at preventing vandalism to it, that's enough
for Wikisource. The current Georgian Wikisource satisfies both criteria: as
far as I can see, it has many more pages than any other language in
wikisource.org, and they aren't being vandalized.

בתאריך יום ו׳, 4 באוג׳ 2023, 14:12, מאת Nataliia Tymkiv ‏<
ntym...@wikimedia.org>:

> True, that community activities are important, and I think that it is
> important to approve all other projects. But Wikisource is a very different
> project, where the value would be even in its passive existence. When there
> are text available in that language -- and there are already a few of them
> -- the chances of a community being drawn to it are bigger. But in any case
> value for readers is really big. Maybe the rules should be different for
> Wikisource because of its different nature (no original text, basically)?
>
> Best regards,
> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>
> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal working
> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. You
> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you in
> advance!*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 10:19 AM Sotiale Wiki  wrote:
>
>> I am negative for approval. Whether a community is sustainable is very
>> important, and this has been a consistent criterion.
>> Of course, it may be a separate issue that this takes into account the
>> nature of the Wikisource project, but at least for now, no argument has
>> been made that it should be taken into account.
>>
>> If it's just because there are a lot of pages, we should approve all of
>> them if they've been contributing continuously for a long time from a small
>> number of users. Or even if there are no such users.
>> Betawikiversity has a Vietnamese language project with 3211 pages, which
>> also needs to be approved according to the same criteria. But no one is
>> running this project right now. I don't think it's appropriate for this
>> wikiversity incubating project to have an independent domain. And the
>> Georgian Wikisource also seems to be in a situation that is not very
>> different when looking at recent activities.
>>
>> I haven't found a good reason to change these acceptance criteria or
>> consistency. If this is approved, there must be a convincing explanation
>> for the approval of the project despite questioning the sustainability of
>> the community. Otherwise, we face demands from numerous projects to be
>> individual and to recognize exceptions.
>>
>> Sotiale
>>
>> 2023년 8월 4일 (금) 오후 3:38, Tochi Precious 님이 작성:
>>
>>> I totally agree as well.
>>> Let's move this forward.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 6:36 AM Amir E. Aharoni <
>>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can we go back to this, please, and approve the Georgian Wikisource?
>>>> It's huge, probably the largest in the multilingual Wikisource. It's
>>>> strange to keep a language with so many pages on the multilingual site. And
>>>> there are waves of activity, too.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ‫בתאריך שבת, 26 במרץ 2022 ב-6:42 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
>>>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>>>>
>>>>> No, it doesn't fulfill the activity requirements currently. Approving
>>>>> makes no sense if there is no community who wants to do the "upkeep" on a
>>>>> separate wiki, when the content is perfectly accessible (without prefixes)
>>>>> on the multilingual Wikisource.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be interested to hear from the users who contributed this year
>>>>> and what they think, thoug

[Langcom] Re: Georgian Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Can we go back to this, please, and approve the Georgian Wikisource? It's
huge, probably the largest in the multilingual Wikisource. It's strange to
keep a language with so many pages on the multilingual site. And there are
waves of activity, too.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך שבת, 26 במרץ 2022 ב-6:42 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> No, it doesn't fulfill the activity requirements currently. Approving
> makes no sense if there is no community who wants to do the "upkeep" on a
> separate wiki, when the content is perfectly accessible (without prefixes)
> on the multilingual Wikisource.
>
> I would be interested to hear from the users who contributed this year and
> what they think, though. Have they already been contacted?
>
> I only see that the user who made the most contributions (but is now
> inactive) has been contacted some years ago by Steven, but it seems like
> there was no response (<
> https://wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Giakosh#Question%3A_Are_you_interested_in_trying_to_get_a_separate_subdomain_for_Georgian_Wikisource%3F
> >).
>
> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Do., 24. März
> 2022, 20:00:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Can we perhaps approve Georgian Wikisource already? :)
>>
>> It has LOTS of pages in the Multilingual Wikisource, and recently, they
>> were recategorized.
>>
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/?title=Georgian&cat=1&wiki=sourceswiki
>>
>> I can't think of a reason to keep it there.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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>>
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Mossi Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

> 3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic
>> because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b)
>> none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is
>> also something the editors need probably to look into?
>>
>>
> Sigh. It's also correct, and also not a blocker. But this is a
> demonstration of a few things I've been telling everyone for years:
> 1. People in pretty much all languages want infoboxes.
> 2. Copying intricate infoboxes from English, French, or Russian is
> terribly difficult.
> 3. Copying the {{Databox}} is easier, so even if the result is less
> satisfying than what the boxes in English or French provide,
> 4. There must be a global repository of templates so that it would be easy
> to share them. Just in case someone hasn't already seen my proposal about
> it, see
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Global_templates/Proposed_specification,_short_version
>

... And, just as I was writing this, someone sent me this thing:
"I am currently developing Wikipedia for Betawi on Incubator. But, there
are still a lot of missing templates. I have an intention to solve this.
What are the templates that should be made on our incubator page? Thanks."

(See
https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=User_talk:Bangrapip&oldid=11661515
at the bottom.)

I get such questions so frequently that I started making a list at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Amire80/Requests_for_template_support .
That list is VERY far from being complete.
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[Langcom] Re: Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions

[Amir E. Aharoni]

... Oh, and I would also have doubts if the current Sylheti Incubator
editors start strongly objecting to using the other script. It sounds like
a case where both scripts should be allowed, and rejecting one of them too
strongly is a serious community problem.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 15 ביוני 2023 ב-10:39 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬

> The problem is valid, but probably not a blocker.
>
> If the current content is valid in that script, it can be approved,
> especially if a reasonable converter can be made.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 15 ביוני 2023 ב-8:58 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> Von: Ami Keu 
>> Date: Mi., 14. Juni 2023 um 23:21 Uhr
>> Subject: Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
>> To: 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Ami Keu 
>> Date: Wed, 14 June, 2023 at 10:05 PM
>> Subject: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
>> To: jhs...@wikimedia.no 
>>
>>
>> Hi Jon,
>> I don't know if this is the correct email to write this.
>>
>> Thank you for initiating approval for Sylheti Wikipedia
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/TKDRS64F5NW2BQBCT4LNNKYV3GMSPVRH/
>>
>> I would like to point out one thing. Langcom should be aware that Sylheti
>> wikipedia uses sylheti nagri script. And not many sylheti people can
>> actually read or write this script. Most sylheti uses Bengali alphabet to
>> write sylheti (also see
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sylhetis#Sylheti_nagri_script )
>>
>> I can see there is a discussion about this on sylheti wikipedia:
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/syl/ꠝꠥꠟ_ꠚꠣꠔꠣ#আমার_সামান্য_এক_পর্যবেক্ষণ_(ꠝꠞ_ꠔꠥꠞꠣ_ꠇꠤꠀꠟ)
>> where a sylheti pointed out that there is an organization did a survey and
>> found out only 12-25 thousands people can actually write or read this
>> script.
>>
>> There are c. 10.3 millions sylheti, which means sylheti wikipedia will
>> be un-accessible for vast majority of sylheti.
>>
>> There is also pointed out that possible solutions would be lang converter
>> like some wiki has. I would request langcom to create or ask developer to
>> create a lang converter for sylheti wikipedia. Mapping already exists, see
>> https://github.com/mayeenulislam/nagri-bangla
>>
>> Thank you.
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>>
>
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[Langcom] Re: Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions

[Amir E. Aharoni]

The problem is valid, but probably not a blocker.

If the current content is valid in that script, it can be approved,
especially if a reasonable converter can be made.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 15 ביוני 2023 ב-8:58 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> Von: Ami Keu 
> Date: Mi., 14. Juni 2023 um 23:21 Uhr
> Subject: Fwd: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
> To: 
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Ami Keu 
> Date: Wed, 14 June, 2023 at 10:05 PM
> Subject: A problem of Sylheti Wikipedia and possible soultions
> To: jhs...@wikimedia.no 
>
>
> Hi Jon,
> I don't know if this is the correct email to write this.
>
> Thank you for initiating approval for Sylheti Wikipedia
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/TKDRS64F5NW2BQBCT4LNNKYV3GMSPVRH/
>
> I would like to point out one thing. Langcom should be aware that Sylheti
> wikipedia uses sylheti nagri script. And not many sylheti people can
> actually read or write this script. Most sylheti uses Bengali alphabet to
> write sylheti (also see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sylhetis#Sylheti_nagri_script )
>
> I can see there is a discussion about this on sylheti wikipedia:
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/syl/ꠝꠥꠟ_ꠚꠣꠔꠣ#আমার_সামান্য_এক_পর্যবেক্ষণ_(ꠝꠞ_ꠔꠥꠞꠣ_ꠇꠤꠀꠟ)
> where a sylheti pointed out that there is an organization did a survey and
> found out only 12-25 thousands people can actually write or read this
> script.
>
> There are c. 10.3 millions sylheti, which means sylheti wikipedia will be
> un-accessible for vast majority of sylheti.
>
> There is also pointed out that possible solutions would be lang converter
> like some wiki has. I would request langcom to create or ask developer to
> create a lang converter for sylheti wikipedia. Mapping already exists, see
> https://github.com/mayeenulislam/nagri-bangla
>
> Thank you.
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Mossi Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 14 ביוני 2023 ב-18:29 מאת ‪Anass Sedrati‬‏ <‪
sedra...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hello Jon and thank you for the proposal,
>
> I took a look at the Mossi Wikipedia, and indeed it seems that there is a
> good activity there, ans also the quality of many existing articles is
> really good. However, there are some points that I think need to be taken
> into consideration before moving forward:
>
> 1- many articles (even the bigger ones) do not have a single reference,
> and come of them are messy with just big chunks of text or very short
> (example: Busa, Guure). If these editors will be the future administrators,
> I think that they really need to be trained before. What do you think?
>

It's true, and it happens in many languages. There has never been a strict
rule about this in the Language committee. Here's my practice: I don't want
to enforce it or turn it into a blocker for approval. The most important
thing for me is the ability to write the prose of the articles with some
very basic formatting—links, headings, and not much more. This is the most
important ability that involves *language*, and we are the *language*
committee.

Having good references in an encyclopedia written by self-selected
volunteers is, generally, a good thing. This understanding developed in
Wikipedias in the big languages in the mid-2000s, because there was no
other way to keep them reliable and to keep the arguments about facts to a
minimum (eliminating them completely is, evidently, impossible).

However, I don't want to *enforce* the rules of the Wikipedia in English,
German, Russian, etc., on Wikipedias that are just beginning. I only want
to suggest them as a good idea, and to let each community develop the
details.

Perhaps a minimal global policy for referencing could be developed.
However, it probably shouldn't be done by the Language committee, but by
some other cross-language body.

And *some* short and low-quality articles are also not a blocker. If there
were *a lot* of those, then maybe I'd have doubts, but in this case, I
wouldn't call it "a lot".

2- the home page is fully written in English. This probably needs to be
> fixed before approval?
>

Lol, it's one of those main pages that I create just so that the project
will have *some* main page :)

Editing main pages is excruciatingly difficult, in all languages. As I've
written above, the most important thing for me is the language of the
articles. The *look* of the main page is less important. The language is,
but this one is very short, and I asked them to translate it. So, not a
serious blocker.


> 3- the infoboxes bring information from Wikidata, but this is problematic
> because (a) they are very big with not always relevant information, and (b)
> none of the items is translated and all of them are in English. This is
> also something the editors need probably to look into?
>
>
Sigh. It's also correct, and also not a blocker. But this is a
demonstration of a few things I've been telling everyone for years:
1. People in pretty much all languages want infoboxes.
2. Copying intricate infoboxes from English, French, or Russian is terribly
difficult.
3. Copying the {{Databox}} is easier, so even if the result is less
satisfying than what the boxes in English or French provide,
4. There must be a global repository of templates so that it would be easy
to share them. Just in case someone hasn't already seen my proposal about
it, see
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Global_templates/Proposed_specification,_short_version
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[Langcom] Re: Montenegrin - ineligible?

[Amir E. Aharoni]

grin happen in
> mails 2–8, but the rest can be an interesting read too if you want more
> context.
> 2. March 2010: A single email "Request for Wikipedia in Montenegrin
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom-inter...@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/Y353WE3DXCVYJJ2P2CUTMYQX5EUV5HOY/>"
> from our now-former member, User:Millosh, who is himself Serbian and
> therefore knows the local situation quite well.
> 3. December 2010: The thread "Montenegrin Wikipedia rejected
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom-inter...@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/5IS5EGP5OGC52D6N3SXL5C4RML7PKG2R/>";
> it was rejected because a pending request to add an ISO 639-3 code for
> Montenegrin was rejected (or not acted upon?) by the registering authority.
> 4. May 2011: The thread "Montenegrin 4
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom-inter...@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/BNCFO6RKUDCVMANTXWKTWY5QGQ35V6DV/>";
> rejected because of continued lack of ISO 639 code.
> 5. Also May 2011: The thread "orthographies and macro-languages
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom-inter...@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/7PCHCWS7ZXG2SBT26HBC2GQODTRBRMI4/>",
> giving some details about the relationship of the various Serbo-Croatian
> languages.
> 6. July 2011: Parts of the thread "Eligible status for Wikipedia in
> Tunisian Arabic
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom-inter...@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/HVA4IZV2B6BZGHL6LNUMHATZ4QTF3LKB/>",
> which went a bit off that topic.
> 7. March 2017: The thread "Rejection of Wikipedia Prekmurian
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/J4RIHJQ2N7CTGYIIYU2PNUIGEWWJGUAZ/>",
> with more details.
> 8. December 2017: The thread "Montenegrin Wikipedia (URGENT)
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/QKZNPMXWMTVS6BLTG2UMHPM7KM4MYPST/>",
> which came after the ISO 639-2 code was approved, but before it was added
> to ISO 639-3.
>
> And then there's the current thread.
>
> As we can see, I don't think there was ever a clear consensus to outright
> reject Montenegrin. There was a consensus for many years to wait until they
> potentially got an ISO 639 code, but when that finally happened, it
> happened in what I would describe as an "out-of-process way", which seemed
> perhaps "suspicious" on linguistic grounds.
>
>
> ons. 26. apr. 2023 kl. 13:28 skrev Kimberli Mäkäräinen <
> kimberli.makarai...@tuni.fi>:
>
> I think it would be a good idea to look more into this, preferably by
> asking linguists specializing in this language/these languages for their
> opinion. Having an ISO code is not a guarantee one way or another that they
> are separate languages and there are plenty of languages bundled under a
> single ISO code.
>
> mvh. K
> --
> *From:* Jon Harald Søby 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 25, 2023 4:55 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee  >
> *Subject:* [Langcom] Re: Montenegrin - ineligible?
>
> Thanks for bringing it up, Amir. I promised a user a while back
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by#Montenegrin_Wiki>
> to bring up the Montenegrin issue again, but I haven't done anything about
> it yet.
>
> The last proper discussion we had about Montenegrin in this list was in this
> thread
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/X2CGBZ53VRY66Z4FSWJQBAPGOI3447GH/>
> from March 2018 (+ this reply
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/langcom@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/ROKNRZMJDUCFDJFMXNXQ7XSC7NKMOTSG/>
> from Steven). Since then the language committee's composition has changed a
> bit, but I don't know if the situation wrt. Montenegrin recognition has
> changed – back then, the ISO 639-2 code for Montenegrin was quite new. But
> it could be good to hear some more opinions from within the committee
> before it's marked as ineligible again.
>
> tir. 25. apr. 2023 kl. 14:53 skrev MF-Warburg :
>
> I agree.
>
> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Di., 25. Apr.
> 2023, 14:26:
>
> Hi,
>
> There's this old, contentious discussion:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Montenegrin_5
>
> I somehow thought that it's already marked as ineligible, but it isn't.
> I'd say that it should be marked as such. I've allowed localization in that
> language on translatewiki, similarly to en-gb, de-ch, etc., but it doesn't
> seem distinct enough for a whole Wikipedia.
>
> Does anyone disagree? I

[Langcom] Montenegrin - ineligible?

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

There's this old, contentious discussion:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Montenegrin_5

I somehow thought that it's already marked as ineligible, but it isn't. I'd
say that it should be marked as such. I've allowed localization in that
language on translatewiki, similarly to en-gb, de-ch, etc., but it doesn't
seem distinct enough for a whole Wikipedia.

Does anyone disagree? If not, I'll be bold and mark it as ineligible in a
week.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: Fula help neeeded from ISO code experts

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Thanks. I improved the underlying data a bit. But it's probably based on
the same external data to which I already have access, and the data about
population is far from complete, I also suspect that some languages overlap
with each other (i.e., many people may be counted as speakers of more than
one variety).

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 4 באפר׳ 2023 ב-16:10 מאת ‪Nicolas VIGNERON‬‏ <‪
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hi,
>
> Not an expert but this Wikidata query can help answer your question a bit
> : https://w.wiki/6Xvw (and I'm sure people can improve it and/or the data
> underneath) and also on a map : https://w.wiki/6Xv$.
>
> Cheers, A galon, De qheurr,
> Nicolas
>
> Le mar. 4 avr. 2023 à 14:40, Amir E. Aharoni 
> a écrit :
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I'm trying to make sense of the different Fula language codes. The macro
>> code is ff, and that's the code in which we have a Wikipedia domain.
>> (There's also the three-letter ful macro code.)
>>
>> But it increasingly seems to me that more than one Wikipedia in this
>> language may be needed. There's both the issue of script (Latin or Adlam)
>> and the dialects themselves (vocabulary, technical terminology, grammar,
>> etc.).
>>
>> There are nine codes under ff/ful: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/ful .
>> It's hard to know from that site:
>> * How many people speak each of them.
>> * In which countries are they used. (Ethnologue helps with that, but only
>> a bit.)
>> * Are they written in general (or only spoken), and in which script are
>> they written.
>> * What was the specific motivation for splitting it from the macro code.
>>
>> I know that we have some people in the Language committee who are
>> familiar with the ISO 639 process. How can I find more info about that?
>>
>> And in general, if anyone knows a good, neutral Fula language expert, I'd
>> love to talk to them.
>>
>> Thanks! :)
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: approve the Fante Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I don't know what was intended with Akan exactly. As far as I can see, It
was created in 2004, and Twi was created in 2003. I'm not sure what
prompted the creation. If anyone knows how to find more documentation about
their creation, such as bug reports, talk pages, or configuration file
logs, I'll be very thankful.

Maybe that was the intention, but I'm not sure. I might be wrong, but my
wild guess is that there was no particular intention behind it, and it was
just one of the many wikis created back then without a lot of background
checking.

Since 2018, I asked several people to check the content in Akan, and they
all said that it's all only Twi (Akuapem and Asante) and not Fante.

At some point I thought that maybe it's good to keep ak for Akuapem and
dedicate tw to Asante, but everyone said that Akuapem and Asante are almost
the same in writing, while Fante is distinct, and the term "Akan" includes
all varieties of Fante and Twi.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 4 באפר׳ 2023 ב-16:13 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Could you briefly explain the relationship with Twi? Was akwiki "intended"
> to encompass both Twi and Fante, but it turned out they are too dissimilar
> from each other?
>
> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am So., 2. Apr.
> 2023, 17:42:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I recommend approving the Fante Wikipedia (code "fat").
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/fat
>>
>> The activity is good, and the localization is complete.
>>
>> I've been trying to find an expert, which was surprisingly difficult. I
>> found a teacher on academia.edu, who responded to me as a message on
>> that site that it's indeed Fante, except some spelling errors. It's hard to
>> copy messages from that site, but I hope you trust me :)
>>
>> If anyone wants to check with another expert, I won't object, but I think
>> that's enough.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>> ___
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[Langcom] Fula help neeeded from ISO code experts

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi!

I'm trying to make sense of the different Fula language codes. The macro
code is ff, and that's the code in which we have a Wikipedia domain.
(There's also the three-letter ful macro code.)

But it increasingly seems to me that more than one Wikipedia in this
language may be needed. There's both the issue of script (Latin or Adlam)
and the dialects themselves (vocabulary, technical terminology, grammar,
etc.).

There are nine codes under ff/ful: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/ful . It's
hard to know from that site:
* How many people speak each of them.
* In which countries are they used. (Ethnologue helps with that, but only a
bit.)
* Are they written in general (or only spoken), and in which script are
they written.
* What was the specific motivation for splitting it from the macro code.

I know that we have some people in the Language committee who are familiar
with the ISO 639 process. How can I find more info about that?

And in general, if anyone knows a good, neutral Fula language expert, I'd
love to talk to them.

Thanks! :)

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] approve the Fante Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

I recommend approving the Fante Wikipedia (code "fat").
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/fat

The activity is good, and the localization is complete.

I've been trying to find an expert, which was surprisingly difficult. I
found a teacher on academia.edu, who responded to me as a message on that
site that it's indeed Fante, except some spelling errors. It's hard to copy
messages from that site, but I hope you trust me :)

If anyone wants to check with another expert, I won't object, but I think
that's enough.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: merge of Akan and Twi Wikipedias

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Thanks for taking action on it.

One immediate comment I have is that the link in the closure notice at the
top is pointing to the wrong page. The correct page is:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2

I may have a few more suggestions for setting it up post-closure, but a bit
later. I talk to Twi and Fante editors frequently, and we'll figure out
something nice.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 23 במרץ 2023 ב-22:15 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬

> Yes.
>
> I am looking for an expert to check the Incubator in Fante, the other
> variety of Akan.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 23 במרץ 2023 ב-18:38 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>> Clearing out the inbox...  Can I get a short confirmation that this is
>> still wanted? Then I will see to it that akwiki be closed.
>>
>> Am Do., 9. Juni 2022 um 17:53 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>>
>>> I suggest proceeding according to the closing projects policy, i.e. to
>>> now notify the board.
>>>
>>> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Di., 7. Juni
>>> 2022, 14:01:
>>>
>>>> So, um... if there were no objections from the Language committee for
>>>> over a week, what's the next step?
>>>>
>>>> Should I create Phab tasks to start locking the Akan Wikipedia?
>>>>
>>>> Or do we want more discussion? Or some advice from an external expert?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 30 במאי 2022 ב-11:57 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
>>>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> See
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the proposal is sensible:
>>>>> * ak is a macro language code ( https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aka ),
>>>>> which includes Twi (tw) and Fante (fat). Avoiding macro language codes is
>>>>> in line with our general policy.
>>>>> * Anecdotally, over the years, lots of people from Ghana told me about
>>>>> their confusion about where they should write, and in which variety.
>>>>> * Less anecdotally, there has been good activity in the incubator and
>>>>> translatewiki in Fante (fat):
>>>>> translatewiki: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Fat
>>>>> incubator:
>>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/fat&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>>>> * There are fewer than 600 articles in ak.wikipedia, and it won't be
>>>>> too hard to move the good content to tw.wikipedia.
>>>>> * There's much more activity in tw.wikipedia than in ak.wikipedia:
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2/activity
>>>>> * There have been no objections on the discussion page since it was
>>>>> created a month ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I'd suggest approving that. I'd further suggest removing Akan as a
>>>>> language for MediaWiki localization: there are almost no translations into
>>>>> it, and almost all of those that exist are identical to the translations 
>>>>> of
>>>>> the same strings into Twi (
>>>>> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=translated&action=page&language=ak&group=mediawiki
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> All that said, I have been talking a lot to editors from Ghana in the
>>>>> last few years, and some of them are personal friends, so it's possible I
>>>>> have a conflict of interest or an incomplete understanding of how things
>>>>> work there. Other opinions are welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>>>
>>>> ___
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[Langcom] Re: merge of Akan and Twi Wikipedias

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Yes.

I am looking for an expert to check the Incubator in Fante, the other
variety of Akan.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 23 במרץ 2023 ב-18:38 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Clearing out the inbox...  Can I get a short confirmation that this is
> still wanted? Then I will see to it that akwiki be closed.
>
> Am Do., 9. Juni 2022 um 17:53 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
> mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>
>> I suggest proceeding according to the closing projects policy, i.e. to
>> now notify the board.
>>
>> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Di., 7. Juni
>> 2022, 14:01:
>>
>>> So, um... if there were no objections from the Language committee for
>>> over a week, what's the next step?
>>>
>>> Should I create Phab tasks to start locking the Akan Wikipedia?
>>>
>>> Or do we want more discussion? Or some advice from an external expert?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
>>>
>>> ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 30 במאי 2022 ב-11:57 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
>>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> See
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2
>>>>
>>>> I think that the proposal is sensible:
>>>> * ak is a macro language code ( https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aka ),
>>>> which includes Twi (tw) and Fante (fat). Avoiding macro language codes is
>>>> in line with our general policy.
>>>> * Anecdotally, over the years, lots of people from Ghana told me about
>>>> their confusion about where they should write, and in which variety.
>>>> * Less anecdotally, there has been good activity in the incubator and
>>>> translatewiki in Fante (fat):
>>>> translatewiki: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Fat
>>>> incubator:
>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/fat&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>>> * There are fewer than 600 articles in ak.wikipedia, and it won't be
>>>> too hard to move the good content to tw.wikipedia.
>>>> * There's much more activity in tw.wikipedia than in ak.wikipedia:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2/activity
>>>> * There have been no objections on the discussion page since it was
>>>> created a month ago.
>>>>
>>>> So I'd suggest approving that. I'd further suggest removing Akan as a
>>>> language for MediaWiki localization: there are almost no translations into
>>>> it, and almost all of those that exist are identical to the translations of
>>>> the same strings into Twi (
>>>> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=translated&action=page&language=ak&group=mediawiki
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> All that said, I have been talking a lot to editors from Ghana in the
>>>> last few years, and some of them are personal friends, so it's possible I
>>>> have a conflict of interest or an incomplete understanding of how things
>>>> work there. Other opinions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>>
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of the Mossi Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I have indeed been in contact with them, and I think everything is mostly
good, but I don't want to skip verification. I have already been trying to
find a linguist who would check it, with no luck yet.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 13 במרץ 2023 ב-16:30 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hello all,
>
> I would like to propose the approval of the Mossi Wikipedia (Wp/mos)
> [1][2]. The activity has been high and stable for several months [3], and
> localization is good [4] (only 17 messages missing out of the most
> important messages, that can be done in no time).
>
> IIRC, Amir has already been in touch with this community quite a lot, so I
> don't think separate verification is necessary in this case, but I'll leave
> that up to him (and the rest of you, if anyone has objections).
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mos
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moor%C3%A9
> [3]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mos&wiki=incubatorwiki
> [4] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/mos
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Central Kurdish Wiktionary - recommended approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Done. (Please check if it's correct—I don't do it often myself.)

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 3 במרץ 2023 ב-16:08 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> No objection from me. Does someone want to start the 7 days of
> announcement on Meta already?
>
> Jon Harald Søby  schrieb am Do., 2. März 2023, 15:38:
>
>> I concur, they have had a good activity for quite some time. A little few
>> in some months, but many more other months, which is a natural variation
>> IMO.
>>
>> ons. 1. mar. 2023 kl. 05:34 skrev Amir E. Aharoni <
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I recommend approving the Central Kurdish Wiktionary:
>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/ckb
>>>
>>> There's activity with at least three users, the wiki community is
>>> generally very active, the Most important messages are at 100% and there's
>>> general localization activity.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>> ___
>>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> mvh
>> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Central Kurdish Wiktionary - recommended approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

I recommend approving the Central Kurdish Wiktionary:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/ckb

There's activity with at least three users, the wiki community is generally
very active, the Most important messages are at 100% and there's general
localization activity.

--
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Frafra Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 16 בינו׳ 2023 ב-16:21 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Happy new year.
> I completely forgot there was a suggestion for this.. Thanks for the
> reminder.
>
> A few days ago, I requested for this project to make the core message
> translation 100%(and they're done!), and to fill in the too short pages
> found in random sampling.
> In my opinion, their community is sustainable, and even in the case of
> random sampling, I don't see this as a very serious level that must be
> addressed.
> So I think that asking them to mind pages that are too short would be
> enough.
>

They are actively working on it, which is seen in recent changes:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?hidebots=1&translations=filter&hideWikibase=1&limit=250&days=20&title=Special:RecentChanges&testwiki=Wp%2Fgur&urlversion=2

Just to verify, is that a Yes? :)
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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Frafra Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Happy new year!

The activity appears to be still sustainable, the translation of the Most
important messages on translatewiki has been 100% done, and I've just
forwarded an expert confirmation to the private mailining list.

Any more objections to full approval of gur.wikipedia.org ?

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Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 20 באוק׳ 2022 ב-2:25 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Sure, I have no problem with waiting a little longer.
>
> tor. 13. okt. 2022 kl. 13:59 skrev Sotiale Wiki :
>
>> I'd like to see some more activity on this project.
>>
>> During the two months of August and September, they created a drastic
>> increase in page counts of 100% (about 200 pages) of the original.
>> I'd like to check this again in November, as I've been seeing
>> projects left with fewer than 3 contributors, usually after an explosive
>> few months.
>>
>> Sotiale
>>
>>
>> 2022년 10월 3일 (월) 오후 9:18, Jon Harald Søby 님이 작성:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I would like to suggest the approval of Wikipedia in Frafra (gurwiki)
>>> [1].
>>>
>>> The localization of the most important messages is at 91 %, but I bet we
>>> can get them to finish those in no time. [2]
>>>
>>> The activity level has been rising for several months. [3] Granted, the
>>> content of the articles I've spot-checked isn't perfect, but most editors
>>> use mobile, which is unfortunately not the easiest way to edit, so I'm
>>> willing to be forgiving about that – surely the quality will improve with
>>> time.
>>>
>>> *We need to find someone to verify it, though. Any takers?*
>>>
>>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/gur
>>> [2] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/gur
>>> [3]
>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/gur&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> mvh
>>> Jon Harald Søby
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>
>
> --
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> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Langcom and UCoC

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

As you may or may not have heard, there's a long process of adopting a
Universal Code of Conduct ("UCoC") for all Wikimedia platforms. You can
read more about it here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct

One of the things that are being discussed now is how will this Code of
Conduct be enforced. A proposal under discussion is here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines

It's a very long page, and you don't have to read it all if you don't want
to, but there is a part in it that seems to me to have a certain
non-obvious relationship to the Langcom. It recommends a list of people who
should explicitly confirm their adherence to the Code of Conduct once it's
ratified (section 2.1). The current suggestion is Board members, Wikimedia
Foundation staff, Wikimedia affiliates staff, their representatives, and
Wikimedia trademark users.

On the talk page there, I suggested that the Code of Conduct should also be
confirmed by people who request to create new wikis. Here's what I wrote:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines#New_wikis

Perhaps some of you want to express their opinions there (and feel free to
disagree with me, of course).

Thanks! :)

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[Langcom] Re: Suggested approval of Angika Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I support it. Is there expert approval?

בתאריך יום ג׳, 16 באוג׳ 2022, 17:01, מאת Jon Harald Søby ‏:

> Hello all,
>
> I would like to suggest the approval of the Angika Wikipedia (anpwiki) [1].
>
> They have had stable activity all year [2], and the most used messages are
> almost fully translated [3] (only 6 missing messages, but that can be done
> in a few minutes).
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/anp
> [2]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/anp&wiki=incubatorwiki
> [3] https://codelookup.toolforge.org/anp
>
> --
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> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: merge of Akan and Twi Wikipedias

[Amir E. Aharoni]

So, um... if there were no objections from the Language committee for over
a week, what's the next step?

Should I create Phab tasks to start locking the Akan Wikipedia?

Or do we want more discussion? Or some advice from an external expert?

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Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 30 במאי 2022 ב-11:57 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬

> Hi,
>
> See
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2
>
> I think that the proposal is sensible:
> * ak is a macro language code ( https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aka ),
> which includes Twi (tw) and Fante (fat). Avoiding macro language codes is
> in line with our general policy.
> * Anecdotally, over the years, lots of people from Ghana told me about
> their confusion about where they should write, and in which variety.
> * Less anecdotally, there has been good activity in the incubator and
> translatewiki in Fante (fat):
> translatewiki: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Fat
> incubator:
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/fat&wiki=incubatorwiki
> * There are fewer than 600 articles in ak.wikipedia, and it won't be too
> hard to move the good content to tw.wikipedia.
> * There's much more activity in tw.wikipedia than in ak.wikipedia:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2/activity
> * There have been no objections on the discussion page since it was
> created a month ago.
>
> So I'd suggest approving that. I'd further suggest removing Akan as a
> language for MediaWiki localization: there are almost no translations into
> it, and almost all of those that exist are identical to the translations of
> the same strings into Twi (
> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=translated&action=page&language=ak&group=mediawiki
> )
>
> All that said, I have been talking a lot to editors from Ghana in the last
> few years, and some of them are personal friends, so it's possible I have a
> conflict of interest or an incomplete understanding of how things work
> there. Other opinions are welcome.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
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[Langcom] merge of Akan and Twi Wikipedias

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

See
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2

I think that the proposal is sensible:
* ak is a macro language code ( https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aka ), which
includes Twi (tw) and Fante (fat). Avoiding macro language codes is in line
with our general policy.
* Anecdotally, over the years, lots of people from Ghana told me about
their confusion about where they should write, and in which variety.
* Less anecdotally, there has been good activity in the incubator and
translatewiki in Fante (fat):
translatewiki: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Fat
incubator:
https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/fat&wiki=incubatorwiki
* There are fewer than 600 articles in ak.wikipedia, and it won't be too
hard to move the good content to tw.wikipedia.
* There's much more activity in tw.wikipedia than in ak.wikipedia:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Akan_Wikipedia_2/activity
* There have been no objections on the discussion page since it was created
a month ago.

So I'd suggest approving that. I'd further suggest removing Akan as a
language for MediaWiki localization: there are almost no translations into
it, and almost all of those that exist are identical to the translations of
the same strings into Twi (
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=translated&action=page&language=ak&group=mediawiki
)

All that said, I have been talking a lot to editors from Ghana in the last
few years, and some of them are personal friends, so it's possible I have a
conflict of interest or an incomplete understanding of how things work
there. Other opinions are welcome.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Georgian Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi!

Can we perhaps approve Georgian Wikisource already? :)

It has LOTS of pages in the Multilingual Wikisource, and recently, they
were recategorized.
https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/?title=Georgian&cat=1&wiki=sourceswiki

I can't think of a reason to keep it there.

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[Langcom] Re: Tyap Wikipedia: suggested approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Indeed. I forwarded to the private list.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 24 במרץ 2022 ב-12:51 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Activity for March is a bit lower, but still satisfactory. Amir said he
> already has verification, so I think we can approve, yeah?
>
> søn. 6. mar. 2022 kl. 10:53 skrev Sotiale Wiki :
>
>> February activity looks fine to me.
>>
>> I expect they will show a similar amount of activity in March. After
>> hearing more from other langcom members, we will be able to proceed with
>> the next step.
>>
>> Sotiale
>>
>> 본 이메일은 Avast로 보호되는 안전한 컴퓨터에서 발송되었습니다.
>> www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>> <#m_-7914726302799213050_m_5682298312012760615_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> 2022년 3월 1일 (화) 오후 11:08, Amir E. Aharoni 님이
>> 작성:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Activity in February looks good to me :)
>>>
>>> Any other opinions?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
>>>
>>> ‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 2 בפבר׳ 2022 ב-15:15 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
>>> sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>>>
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming that this project was activated in June 2021, the monthly
>>>> contributor statistics for this project are as follows;
>>>> 2021/06 ~ 2022/01: 1, 2, 2, 1, *4*, 1, *3* (2021)//(2022) *19*.
>>>>
>>>> (The reason this is different from the stats in the tool is that this
>>>> project contains fake users. Again, obviously, this has nothing to do with
>>>> these projects. In incubatorwiki, there are users who interfere with the
>>>> work of langcom, and they are not related to the actual project
>>>> contributors.)
>>>>
>>>> In terms of activity alone, I would like to see more activities in
>>>> February.
>>>> Of course, while looking for experts, activity in February will be
>>>> well-confirmed, and already 4 valid users have participated.
>>>>
>>>> Sotiale
>>>>
>>>> 2022년 2월 1일 (화) 오전 12:22, Amir E. Aharoni 님이
>>>> 작성:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am asking for your opinion about approving the Tyap Wikipedia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Request:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Tyap
>>>>>
>>>>> Incubator:
>>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kcg
>>>>>
>>>>> Activity:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/kcg&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>>>>
>>>>> Most used messages localization is 100%:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=&action=page&language=kcg&group=core-0-mostused
>>>>>
>>>>> The activity has been great recently, both with spontaneous editing,
>>>>> and in editing Workshops.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>>> ___
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>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> mvh
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[Langcom] Re: Tyap Wikipedia: suggested approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Activity in February looks good to me :)

Any other opinions?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 2 בפבר׳ 2022 ב-15:15 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hello.
>
> Assuming that this project was activated in June 2021, the monthly
> contributor statistics for this project are as follows;
> 2021/06 ~ 2022/01: 1, 2, 2, 1, *4*, 1, *3* (2021)//(2022) *19*.
>
> (The reason this is different from the stats in the tool is that this
> project contains fake users. Again, obviously, this has nothing to do with
> these projects. In incubatorwiki, there are users who interfere with the
> work of langcom, and they are not related to the actual project
> contributors.)
>
> In terms of activity alone, I would like to see more activities in
> February.
> Of course, while looking for experts, activity in February will be
> well-confirmed, and already 4 valid users have participated.
>
> Sotiale
>
> 2022년 2월 1일 (화) 오전 12:22, Amir E. Aharoni 님이
> 작성:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am asking for your opinion about approving the Tyap Wikipedia.
>>
>> Request:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Tyap
>>
>> Incubator:
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kcg
>>
>> Activity:
>>
>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/kcg&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>
>> Most used messages localization is 100%:
>>
>> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=&action=page&language=kcg&group=core-0-mostused
>>
>> The activity has been great recently, both with spontaneous editing, and
>> in editing Workshops.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>> ___
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>>
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[Langcom] Pannonian Rusyn (rsk) - eligible?

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

There's a new request for Pannonian Rusyn, also known as Southern Ruthenian
or Rusnak at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannonian_Rusyn_2
(I gave User:Keresturec technical help with creating the page, but the
request is his.)

The previous one was rejected, because there already was another language
called Rusyn with the code rue. There are two languages with this name, one
mostly spoken in Ukraine and Slovakia, and another one spoken in Serbia and
Croatia.

In 2022, the new code "rsk" was approved for the one spoken in Serbia and
Croatia. The PDFs here are quite interesting:
https://iso639-3.sil.org/request/2021-005

They make a convincing case that:
* The language is distinct, and is not a dialect of Serbian or of
Carpathian Rusyn.
* The language is small, but developed and active. It has stable
orthography, and is used in book publishing, education, government, and
daily life.

I therefore recommend marking that request as eligible.

Creating the Incubator in this language is also blocked by AbuseFilter. I
asked about this on
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Administrators%27_noticeboard#rsk
and MF-Warburg suggested going through the request on Meta.

--
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[Langcom] Tyap Wikipedia: suggested approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

I am asking for your opinion about approving the Tyap Wikipedia.

Request:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Tyap

Incubator:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kcg

Activity:
https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/kcg&wiki=incubatorwiki

Most used messages localization is 100%:
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=&action=page&language=kcg&group=core-0-mostused

The activity has been great recently, both with spontaneous editing, and in
editing Workshops.

--
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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Re: Request for comments on approval of Pa'O Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

The activity looks OK, and the language is eligible. I am not sure where to
find an expert, though. Ideas?..


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http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך שבת, 29 בינו׳ 2022 ב-12:29 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Dear Language committee members,
>
> Hello. Yes, as always, I hope you are doing well.
>
> I would like to ask for comments on the approval of *Wp/blk*. It has been
> active since September 2021, and it has been 5 months(including Jan 2022)
> that 3 or more editors have been active[1]; 09/21 ~ 01/22: 5, 6, 7, 6,
> 7. This is of course expected to continue into February, given the number
> and activity of their contributors. There are about 1689 pages including
> templates.
>
> Most used core messages have already been translated[2]. The request has
> already been submitted[3].
>
> I would like to ask for your opinion on the approval of this, thank you
> for your consideration.
>
> [1]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/blk&wiki=incubatorwiki#editors_per_month
> [2] https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=blk
> [3]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pa%27O
>
> Kind regards,
> Sotiale
>
>
> 본 이메일은 Avast로 보호되는 안전한 컴퓨터에서 발송되었습니다.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-5340144752960797776_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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[Langcom] Re: Serbocroatian

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Yes, we should not repeat the mistake of creating three Wikipedias in
essentially the same content language (hr / bs / sh). It's desirable to
merge these Wikipedias, and theoretically it's even possible, but
practically, it probably won't happen soon.

(Comment 1: As I mentioned in another email, I do think that Cyrillic
Serbian should be separate, *given the current state of the language
converter software*, which is quite good at showing different scripts to
the readers, but doesn't allow storing different scripts in the database,
which creates inconvenience for editors. Ideally, it should be possible to
*edit* in whatever script that is convenient to the editor, but it will
require a lot of work.)

(Comment 2: All varieties should be allowed as different *user interface*
languages, but it's a separate question anyway.)

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 11 בינו׳ 2022 ב-10:20 מאת ‪Antony Green‬‏ <‪
toniogr...@web.de‬‏>:‬

> I agree that Serbo-Croatian Wikivoyage is technically eligible, and as far
> as I can tell there is no Wikivoyage project in Bosnian, Croatian, or
> Serbian for a potential Serbo-Croatian Wikivoyage to compete with. Would be
> outside our jurisdiction to say "If we create a Serbo-Croatian Wikivoyage,
> there won't be Wikivoyages in any of the languages included under the
> Serbo-Croatian umbrella"?
>
> Antony
> Am 2022-01-11 um 06:51 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
>
> Hoi,
> The problem will be that we open a can of worms when we go this route.
> Arguably there is no such language as  Croatian and Serbian became separate
> languages.. The question would be who is its public.
> Thanks,
>   Gerard
>
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2022 at 05:18, MF-Warburg  wrote:
>
>> A user has asked about starting a new project (namely Wikivoyage) in the
>> Serbo-Croatian language. I see no problems with the eligibility of such a
>> project, does anyone?
>> (One would have to wonder about the ISO code, as it's ISO 639-3 hbs; but
>> we already have Wikipedia and Wiktionary under "sh" as a deprecated code in
>> 639-1, but that's a different issue).
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> 10369 Berlin, Germany
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[Langcom] Re: Serbocroatian

[Amir E. Aharoni]

"Who is its public" is a pretty easy question, actually: Anyone who speaks
any of these four languages is its public. Unless someone convincingly
proves the opposite, readers don't care whether it's "sr", "hr", sh", "bs",
or "hbs" (or "cnr" ;).

I do think that given the current state of the software, a more practical
solution would be to have one project in sr that would be more focused on
Cyrillic, and another in hr, sh, or hbs, that would be more focused on
Latin, but this still means that an hbs or sh is eligible.

I'm fine with both codes. "hbs" is cleaner according to the standards, but
requires a bit of work, although it's really tiny, and it can be an
opportunity to make the converter more generic. "sh" doesn't require any
additional work, but in the current configuration, it doesn't have the
converter enabled.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 11 בינו׳ 2022 ב-7:55 מאת ‪Gerard Meijssen‬‏ <‪
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hoi,
> The problem will be that we open a can of worms when we go this route.
> Arguably there is no such language as  Croatian and Serbian became separate
> languages.. The question would be who is its public.
> Thanks,
>   Gerard
>
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2022 at 05:18, MF-Warburg  wrote:
>
>> A user has asked about starting a new project (namely Wikivoyage) in the
>> Serbo-Croatian language. I see no problems with the eligibility of such a
>> project, does anyone?
>> (One would have to wonder about the ISO code, as it's ISO 639-3 hbs; but
>> we already have Wikipedia and Wiktionary under "sh" as a deprecated code in
>> 639-1, but that's a different issue).
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[Langcom] Re: Request for comments on approval of Gun Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

The people seem active, so it's probably OK.

One issue may be that this language has two orthography standards:
Nigerian, with dots under letters, and Beninese, with letters like ɔ. The
current wiki appears to use the Nigerian standard. It doesn't bother me,
but it may be an issue to someone else. If the expert approves, then I
guess it's fine.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום א׳, 12 בדצמ׳ 2021 ב-12:22 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> I agree with approval, and in fact I got in touch with an expert to verify
> the test project just yesterday. 😊 Expecting to hear back from her some
> time next week.
>
> søn. 12. des. 2021, 11:08 skrev Sotiale Wiki :
>
>> [Reminder]
>>
>> It would be appreciated if you could comment on this (Wp/guw).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sotiale
>>
>> 본 이메일은 Avast로 보호되는 안전한 컴퓨터에서 발송되었습니다.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> <#m_-9049200984376319646_m_-4711254824415535313_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> 2021년 11월 22일 (월) 오전 11:59, MF-Warburg 님이 작성:
>>
>>> Looks good to me!
>>>
>>> Am So., 21. Nov. 2021 um 11:50 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
>>> sotiale...@gmail.com>:
>>>
 Dear Language committee members,

 Hello. I hope you are staying safe.

 I would like to ask for comments on the approval of Wp/guw. It has been
 active since June 2021, and it has been 6 months that 3 or more editors
 have been active[1]. There are about 236 pages including templates.

 Of course, LTA is included in the number of editors as fake
 contributors to this project, but even taking that into account, it is true
 that more than 3 contributors were active.

 Most used core messages have already been translated[2]. The request
 has already been submitted[3].

 I would like to ask for your opinion on the approval of this. Thank you.

 [1]
 https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/guw&wiki=incubatorwiki
 [2] https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=guw
 [3]
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Gungbe

 Regards,
 Sotiale
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[Langcom] Re: Request to revist Ancient Language policy

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I don't support these proposed changes.

The discussion mentions the "success" of Latin. What makes it successful?
The fact that some people write there? But who reads it? I'm not talking
just about numbers; I'm talking about *who* these people are. And how does
it contribute to creating a world in which every single human being can
freely share in the sum of all knowledge?

The discussion mentions that it's not right that there are policy
differences between ancient languages and constructed (or artificial)
languages, being less strict with the latter. It's indeed not quite right,
but it should go the other way around: the policy could be changed to be
more strict with them. The support for Kotava (and LFN) in the Language
committee was not as enthusiastic as the discussion says it was.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 7 בספט׳ 2021 ב-13:40 מאת ‪Jim Killock‬‏ <‪j...@killock.org.uk
‬‏>:‬

> Dear LangCom,
>
> I am a sometime contributor to Latin Wikipedia, Latin Wikisource, and
> Latin Wikibooks. I feel that my time is well spent doing this, and belong
> to a community of people who write and use spoken Latin, although my own
> Latin is still intermediate at this point. However, I can appreciate that
> Latin takes up a large part of many people’s lives, and thus I suspect this
> is true for some other ancient languages, which are, in the end, still
> employed and varifiably so. Thus I am sympathetic to the claims made that
> some other ancient languages may also have communities in a similar
> position.
>
> You may have seen that some users have asked for the policy that makes an
> auto0matic refusal for ‘ancient and historic languages’ to be revisited
> 
> .
>
> After checking through the rules and procedures, it seems this is
> something you as a committee need to decide, rather than being a matter of
> general debate, so I am emailing you to ask you to consider revising the
> policy, in a manner which allows a little more flexibility for languages
> which are *historic, learnt, but in use*.
>
> I think there is some need to do this, as can be seen from your archives,
> which show that it is hard to achi9eve a consistent approach while
> constructed alnguages with a body of current usage are allowed, but an
> ancient language with similar levels of fluent usage, is not allowed. This
> I note has been a matter of discussion relating to Ancient Greek, for which
> a discussion is still open.
>
> I drafted a proposal that would try to create consistency between the
> constructed and ancient language situation, while recognising that most
> historic languages should not normally qualify for inclusion. Nevertheless,
> in some important exceptions, where there is a *credibly large enough
> number of language users, with sufficient skill, and attestable external
> usage of that language,*, these languages could be allowed without
> opening the floodgates, with a well-crated policy.
>
> I would also like the committee to note that I would be happy to help
> frame this policy in a sensible way, if that is of interest.
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Jim
>
>
> Definition of *ancient or historic language*[edit
> 
> ]
>
>1. For Wikimedia projects' purposes, an *ancient or historic language* is
>one which
>   1. Was used historically and has an extant corpus of works;
>   2. Is typically acquired by formal learning;
>   3. Is typically fixed in form, eg by grammar rules developed and
>   documented while the language was in common usage;
>   4. May or may not not be used in modern linguistic domains, such
>   as: trade; education; academic discourse; music; poetry; religious
>   discourse; etc.
>
> Qualification of an *ancient or historic language* for a Wiki project[edit
> 
> ]
> The same basic eligibility criteria should apply in a similar but somewhat
> stricter manner than artificial languages, recognising that acquisition is
> likely to be harder than is typical for constructed languages, but also
> that acquisition *may* be more common and resources more developed; and
> also that practical usage is likely to be *lower* than for many
> contemporary natively-acquired languages.
> Therefore I propose that:
>
>1. *Wikis* are allowed in ancient or historical languages despite
>having no native speakers; although these should be on a wiki for the most
>widely used form of the language, when possible;
>2. There must be evidence of a significant potential readership and
>evidence of a significant body of c

[Langcom] Re: Wikipedia Levantine Arabic

[Amir E. Aharoni]

It is sufficiently distinct, there's no doubt about that.

A bigger question is whether its written form is mature enough for an
encyclopedia. My intuition tells me that if it's mature enough for The
Little Prince, then it's mature enough for an encyclopedia, but please
don't take my word for it. In any case, it's probably better to ask an
expert after some articles are written.

בתאריך יום א׳, 1 באוג׳ 2021, 17:17, מאת Sotiale Wiki ‏:

> I agree with you that this proposal should not be rejected until expert
> opinion is sought. This is in line with my argument that this language
> needs to be justified as not at the level of a common dialect. LPP states
> that the language must be unique: "The language must be sufficiently unique
> that it could not coexist on a more general wiki."
>
> I'd like to get some expert advice from linguists, can someone recommend a
> linguist who can answer this case?
>
> Sotiale
>
> 2021년 8월 1일 (일) 오후 11:02, Amir E. Aharoni 님이
> 작성:
>
>> It should not be rejected outright without at least consulting with
>> actual experts. I know a tiny bit of Standard and Levantine Arabic, but I'm
>> definitely not an expert.
>>
>> As far as I can tell, it's as eligible as Moroccan and Egyptian Arabic,
>> which we've already approved. And this is true even though Levantive is
>> often mentioned as one of the closest variants to standard Arabic.
>>
>> There isn't a lot of published written content published in any of the
>> Arabic variants other than Modern Standard Arabic, including Levantine. For
>> the particular case of Levantine, I am aware of a complete translation of
>> The Little Prince. There was a recent political campaign in Israel, with
>> some written material in the local dialect, which is one variety of
>> Levantine. There were also attempts to publish newspapers and books in it
>> in Lebanon, but I know less about that.
>>
>> It's also widely used in writing on social media. It's informal, but it
>> is a thing nevertheless; if a language is popular on the web in general, it
>> can contribute to its success in a Wikipedia.
>>
>> So no, it probably shouldn't be rejected outright.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 1 באוג׳ 2021 ב-15:39 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
>> sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>>
>>> * related:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Levantine_Arabic
>>>
>>> It was proposed in 2015 and has been abandoned for about 2 years, but
>>> has received intermittent attention over the past few years. ISO 639-3 code
>>> is assigned to this language, and there is a test project in Wikimedia
>>> incubator, but there are 5 pages except templates, categories, talkpages,
>>> and modules.
>>>
>>> Looking at the discussion, it seems that speakers of this language can
>>> speak Arabic for granted. Arabic speakers seem to perceive this as a
>>> dialect of some sort.
>>>
>>> I wonder what you think of this proposal. I think it is appropriate to
>>> be rejected unless evidence is presented that this is not at the level of a
>>> dialect that does not differ to an incomprehensible degree from Arabic.
>>>
>>> Sotiale
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[Langcom] Re: Wikipedia Levantine Arabic

[Amir E. Aharoni]

It should not be rejected outright without at least consulting with actual
experts. I know a tiny bit of Standard and Levantine Arabic, but I'm
definitely not an expert.

As far as I can tell, it's as eligible as Moroccan and Egyptian Arabic,
which we've already approved. And this is true even though Levantive is
often mentioned as one of the closest variants to standard Arabic.

There isn't a lot of published written content published in any of the
Arabic variants other than Modern Standard Arabic, including Levantine. For
the particular case of Levantine, I am aware of a complete translation of
The Little Prince. There was a recent political campaign in Israel, with
some written material in the local dialect, which is one variety of
Levantine. There were also attempts to publish newspapers and books in it
in Lebanon, but I know less about that.

It's also widely used in writing on social media. It's informal, but it is
a thing nevertheless; if a language is popular on the web in general, it
can contribute to its success in a Wikipedia.

So no, it probably shouldn't be rejected outright.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום א׳, 1 באוג׳ 2021 ב-15:39 מאת ‪Sotiale Wiki‬‏ <‪
sotiale...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> * related:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Levantine_Arabic
>
> It was proposed in 2015 and has been abandoned for about 2 years, but has
> received intermittent attention over the past few years. ISO 639-3 code is
> assigned to this language, and there is a test project in Wikimedia
> incubator, but there are 5 pages except templates, categories, talkpages,
> and modules.
>
> Looking at the discussion, it seems that speakers of this language can
> speak Arabic for granted. Arabic speakers seem to perceive this as a
> dialect of some sort.
>
> I wonder what you think of this proposal. I think it is appropriate to be
> rejected unless evidence is presented that this is not at the level of a
> dialect that does not differ to an incomprehensible degree from Arabic.
>
> Sotiale
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[Langcom] Re: Requesting approval for Javanese Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I don't understand what's the issue with the font at all. Javanese
Wikimedians use both Latin and Javanese scripts and no one is complaining.
The Wikisource in Javanese should be created ASAP.

בתאריך יום ה׳, 17 ביוני 2021, 23:24, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> Sooo... is there a problem with this? Is this some kind of elaborate joke?
>
> Am Do., 17. Juni 2021 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hoi,
>> The font exists when users know the font exists and are able to find it
>> in MediaWiki.
>> Thanks,
>>Gerard
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 at 20:08, MF-Warburg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that's why by "resolved" I obviously mean they seem to exist now.
>>>
>>> Am Do., 17. Juni 2021 um 19:53 Uhr schrieb Gerard Meijssen <
>>> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:
>>>
 When people ask for the development of UNICODE definitions and
 associated fonts, there is no such thing as "resolved" when there is a need
 for them.
 Thanks,
GerardM

 On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 at 19:18, MF-Warburg 
 wrote:

>
>
> Am Di., 15. Juni 2021 um 19:37 Uhr schrieb Nicolas VIGNERON <
> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi y'all,
>>
>> Sure, done: I made a comment on
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikisource_Javanese#General_discussion
>>
>> That said, I would like to know where the members of the Language
>> Committee stand on this matter.
>> Should it be only an advice/comment and should it be more enforced?
>> (I know the Wikisource Community itself is on the fence and most don't 
>> have
>> a strong opinion either way).
>>
>
> Thanks! I have to admit I'm not aware of the Wikisource community
> discussions on this matter. Would there be a good way of enforcing the use
> of the extension anyway? I'd think it's best to make it as easy as 
> possible
> to use -- surely the practicality of the extension itself is already the
> best advertisement for it?
>
> @ Gerard:
> is your comment about the comment on the wiki page from 2008? I think
> that issue was already solved.
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[Langcom] Re: Approval of Dagbani Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

I've just forwarded an expert confirmation to the private list.

Let's go forward with this.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך שבת, 24 באפר׳ 2021 ב-20:09 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪jhs...@gmail.com
‬‏>:‬

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose the approval of the Dagbani Wikipedia. The
> activity [1] is really good and stable, and the most used messages have all
> been translated [2] (this was finished today actually – there were some
> 40ish untranslated messages a couple of days ago, so I prodded Sadik
> Shahadu, one of the main contributors, to complete them, and he responded
> very swiftly). The community is really active not only on the Incubator,
> but in various other areas of Wikimedia as well – as some of you may have
> heard, it was selected as one of the focus languages for the Abstract
> Wikipedia project [3]. In addition, they also have an active Wikimedia User
> Group [4], which I believe is the only language-based user group for a
> language that's still in the Incubator.
>
> As for external validation, I am not sure that is necessary in this case,
> but according to Amir, who has been helping them out with some things, it
> should be rather easy to obtain if any of the committee members deem it
> necessary.
>
> [1]
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/dag&wiki=incubatorwiki
> [2] https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=dag
> [3]
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Focus_languages
> [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Dagbani_Wikimedians_User_Group
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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[Langcom] Re: Proposed approval of Manchu Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I've just noticed that they have a mix of Latin and Mongolian script
articles in the Incubator and localization is mostly Latin. I'm not
necessarily opposed to it, but I'd love to have some clarity about the
reasons for it.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 6 במאי 2021 ב-17:38 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> I propose to approve:
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/mnc
>
> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=mnc - most-used
> messages are translated
>
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mnc&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2021-05
> - activity requirements fulfilled for 5 months now (December to April).
>
> Verification of the content will be very much needed, I guess, given that
> it is a "critically endangered" language.
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[Langcom] Re: Name of the Lombard language

[Amir E. Aharoni]

No one seems to object, so I'm doing it.

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‫בתאריך יום א׳, 23 במאי 2021 ב-18:08 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬

> OK, so... I often deal with language names, and I don't always bring it up
> with the Language committee, because it is usually not controversial.
>
> I think I'll summarize it like this:
>
> 1. There are patches already. Once there is a decision, they just need to
> be merged, and they'll be deployed to the live Wikipedia a few days later:
> a. https://github.com/wikimedia/language-data/pull/160
> b. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/693571/
>
> 2. It's difficult to determine what is "authoritative" here.
>
> 3. The replies at
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#The_local_name_of_Lombard_language_%28lmo%29
> appear to be reasonable. Most variants listed there say "lombard".
>
> 4. If there are no objections until May 30, I'll merge the patches, and
> they'll (probably) be deployed during the week after that.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 23 במאי 2021 ב-10:19 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬
>
>> I replied there on Meta. Not entirely sure what to do. I'm not opposed to
>> it, but this language has a long story of competing and significantly
>> different orthographies, and it's unclear who is the "authority". The
>> Wikipedia articles about the language and the orthographies are not so well
>> referenced (but maybe I'm missing something!)
>>
>> Any other thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 21 במאי 2021 ב-1:20 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>>
>>> Please see
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Local_name_of_lombard_language
>>> and stuff linked from there. I forgot how / where to change the names.
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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[Langcom] Re: Name of the Lombard language

[Amir E. Aharoni]

OK, so... I often deal with language names, and I don't always bring it up
with the Language committee, because it is usually not controversial.

I think I'll summarize it like this:

1. There are patches already. Once there is a decision, they just need to
be merged, and they'll be deployed to the live Wikipedia a few days later:
a. https://github.com/wikimedia/language-data/pull/160
b. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/693571/

2. It's difficult to determine what is "authoritative" here.

3. The replies at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#The_local_name_of_Lombard_language_%28lmo%29
appear to be reasonable. Most variants listed there say "lombard".

4. If there are no objections until May 30, I'll merge the patches, and
they'll (probably) be deployed during the week after that.

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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום א׳, 23 במאי 2021 ב-10:19 מאת ‪Amir E. Aharoni‬‏ <‪
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il‬‏>:‬

> I replied there on Meta. Not entirely sure what to do. I'm not opposed to
> it, but this language has a long story of competing and significantly
> different orthographies, and it's unclear who is the "authority". The
> Wikipedia articles about the language and the orthographies are not so well
> referenced (but maybe I'm missing something!)
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 21 במאי 2021 ב-1:20 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>> Please see
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Local_name_of_lombard_language
>> and stuff linked from there. I forgot how / where to change the names.
>> ___
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>>
>
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[Langcom] Re: Name of the Lombard language

[Amir E. Aharoni]

בתאריך יום א׳, 23 במאי 2021, 16:00, מאת Ilario Valdelli ‏<
ivalde...@wikimedia.ch>:

> You are right.
>
>
>
> It does not exist a Lombard language but there are different local
> versions. The version spoken in South of Switzerland has for instance its
> own authority owned by the canton of Ticino.
>
Do you have a link to this organization?
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[Langcom] Re: Name of the Lombard language

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I replied there on Meta. Not entirely sure what to do. I'm not opposed to
it, but this language has a long story of competing and significantly
different orthographies, and it's unclear who is the "authority". The
Wikipedia articles about the language and the orthographies are not so well
referenced (but maybe I'm missing something!)

Any other thoughts?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 21 במאי 2021 ב-1:20 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Please see
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Local_name_of_lombard_language
> and stuff linked from there. I forgot how / where to change the names.
> ___
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>
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[Langcom] Re: Name of the Lombard language

[Amir E. Aharoni]

In languages/data/Names.php in core MediaWiki.

בתאריך יום ו׳, 21 במאי 2021, 01:20, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> Please see
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Local_name_of_lombard_language
> and stuff linked from there. I forgot how / where to change the names.
> ___
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>
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Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia Hanja

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I agree!

בתאריך יום ב׳, 8 במרץ 2021, 04:38, מאת MF-Warburg ‏:

> It seems to me that this should be rejected:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Hanja_2
>
> Our dear enwiki says:
> "In South Korea, Hanja are used most frequently in ancient literature,
> legal documents, and scholarly monographs, where they often appear without
> the equivalent Hangul spelling. Usually, only those words with a
> specialized or ambiguous meaning are printed in Hanja. In mass-circulation
> books and magazines, Hanja are generally used rarely, and only to gloss
> words already spelled in Hangul when the meaning is ambiguous. Hanja are
> also often used in newspaper headlines as abbreviations or to eliminate
> ambiguity.[19] In formal publications, personal names are also usually
> glossed in Hanja in parentheses next to the Hangul"
>
> It makes no sense to have an entire wiki in Hanja.
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[Langcom] language code for Multilingual Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Wikidata is adding support for sitelinks to the Multilingual Wikisource.

There's a discussion there about which language should it use. Currently
it's "en", which is not quite correct: technically, the site language of
Multilingual Wikisource is English, but most of the content is in other
languages.

Ideally, each link should specify the language of the page to which it's
linking, but currently this is not possible technically.

Until it's possible, suggestions to use "und" or "mul" have been raised:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Contact_the_development_team#language_of_https://wikisource.org/_:_currently_%22en%22_(_phab:T138332)

I don't have an opinion about this myself. Does anyone else have thoughts
about it?

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Re: [Langcom] Tachelhit Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I had a really nice email conversation with the Tachelhit Incubator
editors. As a result of that conversation, I made a patch for the
converter, and it was merged on Monday. If all goes well, it will be
deployed next week. So this is definitely not a blocker any longer. Even if
more problems are found with this converter, I now know the code quite
well, and can probably fix it quickly.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 27 בינו׳ 2021 ב-16:29 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hiyo,
>
> do we have an update on the converter issue?
>
> Am Di., 29. Dez. 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg <
> mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>
>> Ok, that's great.
>>
>> Am Fr., 25. Dez. 2020 um 18:52 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>>
>>> I actually do suggest to wait a bit until the converter issue is
>>> resolved. Among other problems, the current localization is a mix of both
>>> alphabets and that's not a good way to launch. I'm already talking to these
>>> people about it, and it can probably be resolved soon by some cleanup in
>>> the localization and configuration files, and won't require any substantial
>>> development. After that—good to go.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
>>>
>>> ‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 24 בדצמ׳ 2020 ב-0:59 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
>>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>>>
>>>> I think Tachelhit Wikipedia might already be ready for approval.
>>>>
>>>> Links:
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/shi&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>>> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=shi
>>>>
>>>> There's the script converter issue, recently mentioned on this list,
>>>> but I don't see why the lack of a converter should stop the wiki going
>>>> forward in one script at least.
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Re: [Langcom] Meitei / Manipuri (mni) Wikipedia and Wiktionary

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I forwarded an email from an expert who approves that it's valid to the
private list.

I'm fine with just approving both Wikipedia and Wiktionary.

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‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 9 בנוב׳ 2020 ב-4:49 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> The activity of Wt/mni looks quite good:
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wt/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
> This is the 7th month of continuous activity as usually defined, and the
> project is semi-continuously active since mid-2018.
> The most-used msgs are almost complete:
> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=mni
>
> I'll add that the test-Wikipedia also has considerable activity:
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
>
> I propose to approve mni Wiktionary as the first project in that language,
> and hope that the Wikipedia can soon follow. Thoughts?
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[Langcom] Altay Wikipedia approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

I suggest approving the Altay Wikipedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/alt

The activity is OK, the localization is complete, and I've forwarded an
expert approval to the private list.

Any objections?

Also, happy new year! :)

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Re: [Langcom] Tachelhit Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I actually do suggest to wait a bit until the converter issue is resolved.
Among other problems, the current localization is a mix of both alphabets
and that's not a good way to launch. I'm already talking to these people
about it, and it can probably be resolved soon by some cleanup in the
localization and configuration files, and won't require any substantial
development. After that—good to go.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 24 בדצמ׳ 2020 ב-0:59 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> I think Tachelhit Wikipedia might already be ready for approval.
>
> Links:
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/shi&wiki=incubatorwiki
> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=shi
>
> There's the script converter issue, recently mentioned on this list, but I
> don't see why the lack of a converter should stop the wiki going forward in
> one script at least.
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[Langcom] Bashkir and Georgian Wikisource

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Does anyone object to approving creating Wikisource domains in Georgian
(ka) and Bashkir (ba)?

Both languages have Wikipedias, so expert verification is not needed. And
both have 100% translation for ProofreadPage and continuous localization
activity.

The activity in Multilingual Wikisource is up and down, but given that both
languages have very active Wikipedia communities and the activity checking
is a bit harder to use for Wikisource than it is for Wikipedia Incubator, I
don't think that it's a big problem.

Let's approve them.

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[Langcom] Ojibwe code for Wikidata

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Can anybody help deciding which code to add to Wikidata for the Ojibwe
language?

"oj" looks like a macro language, and it's probably not a big problem in
this case, but I prefer not to decide it all by myself.

See the discussion at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T268431

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Re: [Langcom] Approval of Esperanto Wikivoyage

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Sure, looks okay, and the localization is active.

בתאריך יום א׳, 22 בנוב׳ 2020, 19:18, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> I propose to approve Esperanto Wikivoyage:
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wy/eo&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-10
>
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Re: [Langcom] Approval of Madurese Wikipedia?

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I don't think we have a strict written procedure. When I do it, I usually
forward an email from the expert to the private Language committee mailing
list.

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‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 18 בנוב׳ 2020 ב-12:11 מאת ‪Jan Wohlgemuth‬‏ <‪
lingu...@spamcop.net‬‏>:‬

> Dear all,
> i didn't find any guidelines how exactly "expert approval" is handled.
>
> So I just asked a linguist colleague at Universitas Indonesia. Sri
> Munawarah is a native speaker of Madurese, and she confirmed that the
> wiki is indeed written in Madurese. She would not vouch for the
> correctness of every expression because she said her Madurese had become
> rusty but overall it is indubitably proper Madurese. She was delighted
> to know that there is a community of people putting energy into this
> language.
>
> In case you need an official statement, i'll ask her.
> Best,
> Jan
>
>
>
> Am 15.11.2020 02:19, schrieb Kimberli Mäkäräinen:
> > Activity looks good, as does localization. Do we have expert approval
> > for this one yet?
> >
> >  -K
> > ___
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> --
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> Depok, Indonesia
> www.linguist.de | www.linguisten.de | www.glottopedia.org
>
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Re: [Langcom] Approval of Saraiki Wikipedia and Saraiki Wiktionary

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

I forwarded an email from a third-party linguist who also says that it's
distinct enough. I agree with approving.

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‫בתאריך שבת, 6 ביוני 2020 ב-17:28 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Any comments?
>
> ‪Am Di., 19. Mai 2020 um 16:16 Uhr schrieb ‫پرویز قادر‬‎ <
> mpqa...@gmail.com>:‬
>
>> Dear
>>  Lang Com: is requested to contact linguists for the verification of
>> Saraiki language.
>>
>> 1. Saraiki has ISO 639-3 valid code skr.
>> 2 Saraiki is language in the census of Pakistan.
>> 3. Saraiki is a school, college, and University subject.
>> 4. Saraiki is taught from primary to Ph.D level.
>> 5. Saraiki has TV channels.
>> 6. Govt: of Pakistan has made website in Saraiki also.
>> 7. Saraiki is recognized language by Govt: of Pakistan.
>> 8. Awards are awarded by Govt: of Pakistan in Saraiki languages books in
>> addition to Punjabi language.
>> 9. Saraiki news and programs are presented on Public and Private Radio in
>> Saraiki also.
>> 10. Saraiki language Dictionaries are also available since 1881 A.D. An
>> online is this https://www.ijunoon.com/saraiki/dictionary.aspx?word=when
>> 11. Saraiki has its own Grammar, Idioms, Proverbs, alphabets, and Tenses.
>> 12. Saraiki translations of Bible and Quran are also available.
>> 13. All above things are available for Pakistani Western Punjabi as well
>> as Saraiki also.
>> 14. Saraiki is also language of WordPress. see https://skr.wordpress.org/
>>
>>- In 1881 , Glossary of the Multani Language Compared with Punjábi
>>and Sindhi, was pulished. In this book more than 5000 words are given,
>>which shows that Saraiki and Punjabi are different. see,
>>
>> https://books.google.com.pk/books/about/Glossary_of_the_Multani_Language_Compare.html?id=u10IQAAJ&redir_esc=y
>>- In Wt/skr
>>
>> ,
>>there are more than 18000 pages. Most words are different from pnb.
>>- Alphabet of Saraiki are different from western Punjabi pbn.
>>- See also https://www.britannica.com/topic/Siraiki-language ۔ Hence
>>Saraiki Wikipedia be approved.
>>
>>
>> Most work has been done in Saraiki Wikipedia and Saraiki Wiktionary.
>> Kindly approve these so that these may be created. Thanking you anticipation
>> Parvez Qadir
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> --
>> پرویز قادر
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Re: [Langcom] Meitei / Manipuri (mni) Wikipedia and Wiktionary

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Do we already have expert approval, by the way? If not, I may have someone
to ask.

בתאריך יום ב׳, 9 בנוב׳ 2020, 04:49, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> The activity of Wt/mni looks quite good:
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wt/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
> This is the 7th month of continuous activity as usually defined, and the
> project is semi-continuously active since mid-2018.
> The most-used msgs are almost complete:
> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=mni
>
> I'll add that the test-Wikipedia also has considerable activity:
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
>
> I propose to approve mni Wiktionary as the first project in that language,
> and hope that the Wikipedia can soon follow. Thoughts?
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Re: [Langcom] Nias (nia) Wikipedia and Wiktionary

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I support just approving both. There is continuous activity in
translatewiki, and that's enough.

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‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 9 בנוב׳ 2020 ב-10:44 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Here's also a similar situation:
>
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=wp/nia&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=wt/nia&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
>
> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=nia
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Re: [Langcom] Meitei / Manipuri (mni) Wikipedia and Wiktionary

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Gerard, we already discussed this: Wiktionary hasn't yet been replaced by
Wikidata and won't be any time soon, so this argument is irrelevant.

בתאריך יום ב׳, 9 בנוב׳ 2020, 08:12, מאת Gerard Meijssen ‏<
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> From my point of view, depending on what project, we always followed the
> notion that for a second project we require more quality in localisations.
> So no, first Wikipedia then Wiktionary. Wiktionary as a project is being
> made redundant by the lexical support in Wikidata, so giving it a priority
> is wrong. So even with my love for Wiktionary, no rather not as a first if
> at all. Wikisource is a totally different proposition.
> Thanks,
>    GerardM
>
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 at 06:26, Amir E. Aharoni 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd just approve both, but Wiktionary first and Wikipedia later is OK,
>> too.
>>
>> I should mention that over the last year and a half I've been speaking to
>> them and providing them tech support, mostly for translatewiki activity.
>> Their relevant questions caused me to improve some things in
>> translatewiki's configuration and documentation in a way that hopefully
>> makes working there easier for everyone.
>>
>> בתאריך יום ב׳, 9 בנוב׳ 2020, 04:49, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>>
>>> The activity of Wt/mni looks quite good:
>>>
>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wt/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
>>> This is the 7th month of continuous activity as usually defined, and the
>>> project is semi-continuously active since mid-2018.
>>> The most-used msgs are almost complete:
>>> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=mni
>>>
>>> I'll add that the test-Wikipedia also has considerable activity:
>>> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
>>>
>>> I propose to approve mni Wiktionary as the first project in that
>>> language, and hope that the Wikipedia can soon follow. Thoughts?
>>> ___
>>> Langcom mailing list
>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>
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Re: [Langcom] Meitei / Manipuri (mni) Wikipedia and Wiktionary

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I'd just approve both, but Wiktionary first and Wikipedia later is OK, too.

I should mention that over the last year and a half I've been speaking to
them and providing them tech support, mostly for translatewiki activity.
Their relevant questions caused me to improve some things in
translatewiki's configuration and documentation in a way that hopefully
makes working there easier for everyone.

בתאריך יום ב׳, 9 בנוב׳ 2020, 04:49, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> The activity of Wt/mni looks quite good:
>
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wt/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
> This is the 7th month of continuous activity as usually defined, and the
> project is semi-continuously active since mid-2018.
> The most-used msgs are almost complete:
> https://robin.toolforge.org/?tool=codelookup&code=mni
>
> I'll add that the test-Wikipedia also has considerable activity:
> https://meta.toolforge.org/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/mni&wiki=incubatorwiki#distribution_2020-11
>
> I propose to approve mni Wiktionary as the first project in that language,
> and hope that the Wikipedia can soon follow. Thoughts?
> ___
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[Langcom] Osage in Wikidata

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

There is a request to add the support for the Osage language (code osa) to
Wikidata:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265297

It can be written in Latin and in the Osage script.

Michael was deeply involved in researching the Osage people's writing
practices when adding it to Unicode, so perhaps he can give good advice
about how values in this language should be stored in Wikidata. I imagine
that the values will be mostly native names of Osage people and places.

Should we assume that "osa" values are written in the Osage script, and
recommend adding transliteration in Latin as a qualifier?

Or should we also add a full-fledged "osa-latn" code?

Or maybe do something else?

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Re: [Langcom] Proposed approval of Ladin Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I didn't know it, but it is certainly a reason to trust it.

בתאריך יום ה׳, 2 ביולי 2020, 18:47, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> I wouldn't mind proceeding as well. Also because the local chapter knows
> the project as well, of course.
>
> Am Di., 16. Juni 2020 um 05:50 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>
>> I have not received a response, unfortunately. I don't really mind
>> approving in this form, because I have very few doubts that it's valid.
>>
>> בתאריך יום ג׳, 16 ביוני 2020, 01:41, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:
>>
>>> Heyho. Is there an update? :)
>>>
>>> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Mo., 8. Juni
>>> 2020, 10:07:
>>>
>>>> Looks OK to me.
>>>>
>>>> I have a Ladin-Italian dictionary that a friend brought me from a trip
>>>> to Northern Italy (my friends know I'm a freak of dictionaries). I checked
>>>> a few words, and could find them all. I cannot check the syntax and style
>>>> though, so to be on the safe side, I emailed the Istitut Ladin Micurà de
>>>> Rü, which published the dictionary and asked for their opinion. For once,
>>>> it's easy to find an expert :)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 7 ביוני 2020 ב-23:11 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
>>>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>>>>
>>>>> I think it's ready for approval:
>>>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Ladin
>>>>> >
>>>>> <https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/lld>
>>>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=wp/lld&wiki=incubatorwiki>
>>>>> There is a small community of dedicated contributors; there have been >3
>>>>> editors >10 edits for 7 months now (though not yet in the current month,
>>>>> which is just a week old).
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=lld> A mere 1
>>>>> message from the most-used group is untranslated, which the community can
>>>>> easily fix.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you agree with approval, does anyone know someone who could verify
>>>>> the content?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> MF-W
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>>>
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>>>>
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Re: [Langcom] Proposed approval of Ladin Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I have not received a response, unfortunately. I don't really mind
approving in this form, because I have very few doubts that it's valid.

בתאריך יום ג׳, 16 ביוני 2020, 01:41, מאת MF-Warburg ‏<
mfwarb...@googlemail.com>:

> Heyho. Is there an update? :)
>
> Amir E. Aharoni  schrieb am Mo., 8. Juni
> 2020, 10:07:
>
>> Looks OK to me.
>>
>> I have a Ladin-Italian dictionary that a friend brought me from a trip to
>> Northern Italy (my friends know I'm a freak of dictionaries). I checked a
>> few words, and could find them all. I cannot check the syntax and style
>> though, so to be on the safe side, I emailed the Istitut Ladin Micurà de
>> Rü, which published the dictionary and asked for their opinion. For once,
>> it's easy to find an expert :)
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 7 ביוני 2020 ב-23:11 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
>> mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬
>>
>>> I think it's ready for approval:
>>>
>>> <
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Ladin
>>> >
>>> <https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/lld>
>>>
>>> <
>>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=wp/lld&wiki=incubatorwiki>
>>> There is a small community of dedicated contributors; there have been >3
>>> editors >10 edits for 7 months now (though not yet in the current month,
>>> which is just a week old).
>>>
>>> <https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=lld> A mere 1
>>> message from the most-used group is untranslated, which the community can
>>> easily fix.
>>>
>>> If you agree with approval, does anyone know someone who could verify
>>> the content?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> MF-W
>>> ___
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Re: [Langcom] Proposed approval of Ladin Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Looks OK to me.

I have a Ladin-Italian dictionary that a friend brought me from a trip to
Northern Italy (my friends know I'm a freak of dictionaries). I checked a
few words, and could find them all. I cannot check the syntax and style
though, so to be on the safe side, I emailed the Istitut Ladin Micurà de
Rü, which published the dictionary and asked for their opinion. For once,
it's easy to find an expert :)

--
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http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום א׳, 7 ביוני 2020 ב-23:11 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> I think it's ready for approval:
>
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Ladin
> >
> 
>
> <
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=wp/lld&wiki=incubatorwiki>
> There is a small community of dedicated contributors; there have been >3
> editors >10 edits for 7 months now (though not yet in the current month,
> which is just a week old).
>
>  A mere 1
> message from the most-used group is untranslated, which the community can
> easily fix.
>
> If you agree with approval, does anyone know someone who could verify the
> content?
>
> Best regards,
> MF-W
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Re: [Langcom] Improving the process of creating new wikis

[Amir E. Aharoni]

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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 19 במאי 2020 ב-17:16 מאת ‪Amir Sarabadani‬‏ <‪
ladsgr...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hello,
> I have been working on improving the process of creating with the goal of
> ultimately automating it
>

ENORMOUS THANKS!


> (for now, it least eliminate the toil [1]).
>

Good example. This is indeed, Manual, Repetitive, and Automatable, as that
page says.


> The most exhausting (the toil) part of creating new wikis is keeping track
> of all of the moving parts, Is CX working? Is DNS entry deployed? ...
>

As for CX, I've just checked with Kartik, who is the cxserver deployment
guru, and he says that it can be done early, before the wiki is created.
(Although I guess that ideally it should be done right when the wiki is
created, not much earlier and not much later.)


>
> I started a code [2] that takes a bug id like (like T251371) and outputs
> all of the steps in pre-install and post-install if they are done or not.
> If you noticed, I have been adding this to bottom of the new wikis creation
> tickets: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251371
>

Is there a task where you track this particular work of yours? If not,
perhaps you could document it at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T158730 .


>
> What I want to ask from langcom is to keep in mind that this code parses
> the text they put in the tickets they create to find out for example if the
> new wiki is a Wikipedia or a special wiki because it seems you're using a
> template. Do not change that pattern please, or at least let me know if
> you're changing it.
>

In my dream, all of this necessary info is entered in a well-structured
_form_, rather than a loose template, and then everything is done
automatically, so that people don't have to create a lot of tasks and
patches. But I guess that strict usage of a template is a good step in that
direction.
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Re: [Langcom] Awadhi Wikipedia approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Thanks for the reminder!

I do occasionally read it, but I guess I should read it more carefully.

No suggestions to add anything right now. I do have some ideas for
streamlining things, but before I propose them, I want to make good on my
previous promise that we discussed a few months ago: to require that people
who post requests for new projects to translate short descriptions of these
projects. And I need to write these short descriptions first :)

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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 29 באפר׳ 2020 ב-20:47 מאת ‪MF-Warburg‬‏ <‪
mfwarb...@googlemail.com‬‏>:‬

> Thanks for doing that.
> As a reminder, there are several pages which should be updated when
> something is approved, mentioned at <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee/Handbook_(committee)>
> Final approval no. 4. I routinely forget at least one of them as well, so I
> thought it would be worth mentioning.
> On another note, does anyone use that page except me? Any suggestions for
> improvements to make it (more) useful to you (pl.)? :)
>
> Am Di., 28. Apr. 2020 um 15:49 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Several people have been continuously active in the Awadhi Wikipedia
>> Incubator at https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/awa , and the
>> localization of core MediaWiki is nearly complete.
>>
>> A week ago I forwarded a confirmation from a third-party expert that the
>> text is indeed Awadhi to the private mailing list.
>>
>> I am going to ask for creating the creation of the Awadhi domain at
>> https://awa.wikipedia.org on Phabricator.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Awadhi Wikipedia approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Several people have been continuously active in the Awadhi Wikipedia
Incubator at https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/awa , and the
localization of core MediaWiki is nearly complete.

A week ago I forwarded a confirmation from a third-party expert that the
text is indeed Awadhi to the private mailing list.

I am going to ask for creating the creation of the Awadhi domain at
https://awa.wikipedia.org on Phabricator.

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Re: [Langcom] Request Approval of Shan Wiktionary (wt/shn)

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Both parts of your objection go against current written policy, Gerard.

If you want to start rejecting all Wiktionary projects because you don't
like it and because Wikidata is better (at least according to you), this
must be discussed separately.

And the policy about localization is: "If a Wikimedia project in your
language already exists and these messages have already been translated, we
ask that you show evidence that localisation is continuing to be improved
and maintained at a reasonable pace." There is activity in Shan in
translatewiki, so this is not a problem.

As for myself, I checked the activity and the quality of the pages and both
look fine. I support the approval of this.

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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 24 במרץ 2020 ב-12:38 מאת ‪Gerard Meijssen‬‏ <‪
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hoi,
> You may know that I have a history with Wiktionary .. Given that Wikidata
> is superior in supporting lexical content, I am wary to approve. That and I
> do care about localisation.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 07:27, Kimberli Mäkäräinen <
> kimberli.makarai...@tuni.fi> wrote:
>
>> Activity is fine. I won't hold the localization level against them, so I
>> think it should be approved.
>>
>> -K
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Langcom  on behalf of Jon
>> Harald Søby 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2020 2:29 PM
>> *To:* Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee <
>> langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Langcom] Request Approval of Shan Wiktionary (wt/shn)
>>
>> I am satisfied with the activity here, so I would be happy to approve.
>> The only thing which could need some improvement is the localization on
>> Translatewiki, Shan is currently at 57 % translated
>> 
>> for MediaWiki core. But I don't want to hold that against them, but just
>> encourage a bit more translation there.
>>
>> fre. 20. mar. 2020 kl. 20:13 skrev Kyi Phyo Htet <
>> leonhart@googlemail.com>:
>>
>> Dear respectful LangCom Members,
>>
>> The Shan Wiktionary project is active enough[1] and has more than 9500
>> entries.[2] The Shan community's first Wikipedia Project (Shan Wikipedia)
>> was approved and created on 2018.[3] Please review their second project[4]
>> for the final approval. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=wt/shn&wiki=incubatorwiki
>> [2]
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/shn/%E1%81%BC%E1%82%83%E1%82%88%E1%82%81%E1%80%B0%E1%80%9D%E1%80%BA%E1%82%81%E1%82%85%E1%81%B5%E1%80%BA%E1%82%88
>>
>> [3] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:News#2018
>>
>> [4]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wiktionary_Shan
>>
>> On behalf of Shan Wiki Community,
>>
>> Kyi Phyo Htet / User:Ninjastrikers
>> 
>>
>> Myanmar Wikimedia Community User Group
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail  for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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[Langcom] Balinese Wikisource - somewhat special case

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

This is a bit of a special case, and I want to check what does the
committee think.

There is this proposal to move content in the Balinese language from an
external MediaWiki site into a Wikimedia site:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/PanLex/Balinese_palm-leaf_transcription_platform_on_Wikisource

On the surface of it, I think that it's a very good proposal. It will
probably require a bit of coding to do it properly and address the special
needs of this language, and that's why the people behind it are asking for
a grant.

*Assuming* it will go through, there's another question: Should it be
imported into the Multilingual Wikisource or its own domain?

There is no formal request for a Balinese Wikisource at the moment. I
believe, however, that this content should be imported to its own domain
and not to the Multilingual Wikisource. In Multilingual Wikisource it will
be mixed up with content in other languages, and the special technical
needs of Balinese will be harder to address with this mixup.

So, my proposal is that given that the content is already created, the
Language committee should treat it as a special case: skip the Multilingual
Wikisource stage and fast-track the approval of an independent domain for
Balinese.

I raised this question on the proposal's talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:Project/PanLex/Balinese_palm-leaf_transcription_platform_on_Wikisource#Multilingual_Wikisource_or_own_site

Two people related to the proposal replied. The short summary of that
discussion is that they don't have particular reasons, but just
non-specific concerns about "maintenance".

Does the Language committee have a different opinion?

Thanks!

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Re: [Langcom] Minnan in Chinese characters

[Amir E. Aharoni]

... Did he reply? :)

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‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 5 במרץ 2020 ב-11:31 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> I've asked Benjamin Yang from PanLex, who was the keynote speaker at
> WikidataCon last year, about input on this.
>
> søn. 1. mar. 2020 kl. 12:24 skrev Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>
>> Beep... No ideas from anyone?
>>
>> בתאריך יום א׳, 23 בפבר׳ 2020, 12:57, מאת Amir E. Aharoni ‏<
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Every now and then there are proposals to add support for writing Minnan
>>> in Chinese characters.
>>>
>>> Currently, there is a Wikipedia in Minnan in Latin characters:
>>> https://zh-min-nan.wikipedia.org . (Its domain should probably be
>>> renamed to nan.wikipedia.org, but that is blocked for unfortunate
>>> technical reasons and this is not what this email is about.)
>>>
>>> However, there are proposals to allow that language in Chinese
>>> characters, at least as a localization, for example:
>>> *
>>> https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_dog2&oldid=3928408#Min-nan_in_Chinese_characters
>>> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T180771
>>>
>>> I am not opposed to adding nan-hani or nan-hant or something like that
>>> for MediaWiki localization (whether to make a whole wiki in that language
>>> is a separate question, not for discussion in this thread). However, I know
>>> almost nothing about these languages. Can anyone think of a reason not to
>>> do it?
>>>
>>> And if it's done, what should the code be? nan-hani, nan-hant, or
>>> something else?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
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Re: [Langcom] Minnan in Chinese characters

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Beep... No ideas from anyone?

בתאריך יום א׳, 23 בפבר׳ 2020, 12:57, מאת Amir E. Aharoni ‏<
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:

> Hi,
>
> Every now and then there are proposals to add support for writing Minnan
> in Chinese characters.
>
> Currently, there is a Wikipedia in Minnan in Latin characters:
> https://zh-min-nan.wikipedia.org . (Its domain should probably be renamed
> to nan.wikipedia.org, but that is blocked for unfortunate technical
> reasons and this is not what this email is about.)
>
> However, there are proposals to allow that language in Chinese characters,
> at least as a localization, for example:
> *
> https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_dog2&oldid=3928408#Min-nan_in_Chinese_characters
> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T180771
>
> I am not opposed to adding nan-hani or nan-hant or something like that for
> MediaWiki localization (whether to make a whole wiki in that language is a
> separate question, not for discussion in this thread). However, I know
> almost nothing about these languages. Can anyone think of a reason not to
> do it?
>
> And if it's done, what should the code be? nan-hani, nan-hant, or
> something else?
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
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Re: [Langcom] Awadhi Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Any news?

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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 17 בינו׳ 2020 ב-11:05 מאת ‪Satdeep Gill‬‏ <‪
satdeepg...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Okay. Let me check If I can find some expert!
>
> On Fri, 17 Jan, 2020, 2:32 pm Amir E. Aharoni, <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can anyone help find an expert to check the Awadhi Wikipedia Incubator?
>>
>> The localization there is done, the activity looks pretty OK to me, and a
>> very informal check I did tells me that the language is probably OK. That
>> is, I asked some friends from India, and they told me that the it doesn't
>> look fake, although I'd still prefer to ask someone more formal.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Langcom] Minnan in Chinese characters

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Every now and then there are proposals to add support for writing Minnan in
Chinese characters.

Currently, there is a Wikipedia in Minnan in Latin characters:
https://zh-min-nan.wikipedia.org . (Its domain should probably be renamed
to nan.wikipedia.org, but that is blocked for unfortunate technical reasons
and this is not what this email is about.)

However, there are proposals to allow that language in Chinese characters,
at least as a localization, for example:
*
https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_dog2&oldid=3928408#Min-nan_in_Chinese_characters
* https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T180771

I am not opposed to adding nan-hani or nan-hant or something like that for
MediaWiki localization (whether to make a whole wiki in that language is a
separate question, not for discussion in this thread). However, I know
almost nothing about these languages. Can anyone think of a reason not to
do it?

And if it's done, what should the code be? nan-hani, nan-hant, or something
else?

--
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[Langcom] Awadhi Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Can anyone help find an expert to check the Awadhi Wikipedia Incubator?

The localization there is done, the activity looks pretty OK to me, and a
very informal check I did tells me that the language is probably OK. That
is, I asked some friends from India, and they told me that the it doesn't
look fake, although I'd still prefer to ask someone more formal.

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Re: [Langcom] Approval of Guianan Creole Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I got the email on the private list.

Looks fine!

בתאריך יום ג׳, 12 בנוב׳ 2019, 06:39, מאת Amir E. Aharoni ‏<
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:

> Can you provide any info about the academic?
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 12 בנוב׳ 2019 ב-6:24 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
> jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I reached out to an academic who has published works about the French
>> Guianan Creole language [1] to confirm the validity of the Guianan Creole
>> Wikipedia [2], and they confirmed that it is indeed the correct language.
>>
>> They have met [3] the localisation criteria, and there are 3 regular
>> contributors over a long period of time [4]. The number of regular
>> contributors is a bit on the lower side, but I think it is a reasonable
>> number for a relatively small language (around 250–300 thousand speakers
>> according to Wikipedia. But all in all I am impressed with the activity,
>> and would like to formally suggest the approval of the Guianese Creole
>> Wikipedia.
>>
>> [1] As usual, I won't divulge their name here on the public list because
>> I didn't discuss that with them, but would be happy to share the name on
>> the private list.
>> [2] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/gcr
>> [3] https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=gcr
>> [4]
>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/gcr&wiki=incubatorwiki
>>
>> --
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>> Jon Harald Søby
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Re: [Langcom] Approval of Guianan Creole Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Do you have a link?

בתאריך יום ג׳, 12 בנוב׳ 2019, 09:09, מאת Steven White ‏<
koala19...@hotmail.com>:

> This was announced on Meta in December 2018 and attracted no objections.
>
> Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
>
> --
> *From:* Langcom  on behalf of Amir
> E. Aharoni 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 12, 2019 6:39 AM
> *To:* Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee  >
> *Subject:* Re: [Langcom] Approval of Guianan Creole Wikipedia
>
> Can you provide any info about the academic?
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wordpress.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd39562cd9e3c42d7082f08d7676920fc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637091573531931491&sdata=V9Kl2r1%2FVNmfUjGhbblH59D7w9HARY%2Fr9khVljmnZUU%3D&reserved=0>
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 12 בנוב׳ 2019 ב-6:24 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
> jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>
> Hello all,
>
> I reached out to an academic who has published works about the French
> Guianan Creole language [1] to confirm the validity of the Guianan Creole
> Wikipedia [2], and they confirmed that it is indeed the correct language.
>
> They have met [3] the localisation criteria, and there are 3 regular
> contributors over a long period of time [4]. The number of regular
> contributors is a bit on the lower side, but I think it is a reasonable
> number for a relatively small language (around 250–300 thousand speakers
> according to Wikipedia. But all in all I am impressed with the activity,
> and would like to formally suggest the approval of the Guianese Creole
> Wikipedia.
>
> [1] As usual, I won't divulge their name here on the public list because I
> didn't discuss that with them, but would be happy to share the name on the
> private list.
> [2] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/gcr
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fincubator.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWp%2Fgcr&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd39562cd9e3c42d7082f08d7676920fc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637091573531931491&sdata=%2BJWFOuV8suqhBzdURB4gPzauQX4nYs%2BaIM3ukLTG3bc%3D&reserved=0>
> [3] https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=gcr
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.wmflabs.org%2Frobin%2F%3Ftool%3Dcodelookup%26code%3Dgcr&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd39562cd9e3c42d7082f08d7676920fc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637091573531941496&sdata=6TWrg4A8LejGHr6e9a5oLRfEZ797aEGFyq%2FjMratR1s%3D&reserved=0>
> [4]
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/gcr&wiki=incubatorwiki
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.wmflabs.org%2Fmeta%2Fcatanalysis%2Findex.php%3Fcat%3D0%26title%3DWp%2Fgcr%26wiki%3Dincubatorwiki&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd39562cd9e3c42d7082f08d7676920fc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637091573531941496&sdata=tu%2B6s1xDvCURAGJwyuJs%2B9Ru%2BJwd77bgRKduEVnNuHI%3D&reserved=0>
>
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Re: [Langcom] Approval of Guianan Creole Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Can you provide any info about the academic?

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‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 12 בנוב׳ 2019 ב-6:24 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hello all,
>
> I reached out to an academic who has published works about the French
> Guianan Creole language [1] to confirm the validity of the Guianan Creole
> Wikipedia [2], and they confirmed that it is indeed the correct language.
>
> They have met [3] the localisation criteria, and there are 3 regular
> contributors over a long period of time [4]. The number of regular
> contributors is a bit on the lower side, but I think it is a reasonable
> number for a relatively small language (around 250–300 thousand speakers
> according to Wikipedia. But all in all I am impressed with the activity,
> and would like to formally suggest the approval of the Guianese Creole
> Wikipedia.
>
> [1] As usual, I won't divulge their name here on the public list because I
> didn't discuss that with them, but would be happy to share the name on the
> private list.
> [2] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/gcr
> [3] https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=gcr
> [4]
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/gcr&wiki=incubatorwiki
>
> --
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Re: [Langcom] Kotava Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Well... As it was with Lingua Franca Nova: I'm somewhat skeptical about the
usefulness of this project and about the future activity once the founders
lose interest, but I'm not really opposed to it.

I was also a bit skeptical about the validity of the code, because it
doesn't appear on Ethnologue. But it does appear at
https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/avk , so I guess it's OK.

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‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 5 בנוב׳ 2019 ב-14:12 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Any other comments other than Michael's repeated approvals? ;-)
>
> If not, we can move forward on this, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of
> at least a couple more committee members.
>
> tir. 1. okt. 2019 kl. 15:28 skrev Michael Everson :
>
>> There seems to be something wrong with my mail server.
>>
>> > On 30 Sep 2019, at 20:33, MF-Warburg  wrote:
>> >
>> > Michael, are you ok?
>> >
>> > Michael Everson  schrieb am Mo., 30. Sep. 2019,
>> 21:24:
>> > I support approval.
>> >
>> > > On 26 Sep 2019, at 22:47, Jon Harald Søby  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I'd like to hear your thoughts on the Kotava Wikipedia. Kotava is a
>> conlang created in 1978, mainly known in French-speaking countries
>> (according to the English Wikipedia). They have a very active test wiki in
>> Incubator, with more than 3,000 articles, which makes it bigger than the
>> Novial Wikipedia (which we approved in 2008) and about the same size as the
>> Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) Wikipedia (which we approved in 2017). There are
>> several active users, and sustained activity for many months.
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone have reasons for why we should not approve this project?
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > mvh
>> > > Jon Harald Søby
>> > > ___
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>> >
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[Langcom] Minangkabau Wiktionary approval

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

Shall we approve the Minangkabau Wiktionary?

The Incubator activity and the translatewiki activity seem OK to me, and
the content is pretty nice too as far as I can tell.

https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/min

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Re: [Langcom] Approval of Sakizaya Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Looks good to me, and kind of corresponds to my proposal from a few weeks
ago to accept academics' involvement in an Incubator as verification.

Thanks for handling the other recent verifications, too! I tried emailing
several institutions in August and got no response, and you apparently were
luckier.

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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 17 באוק׳ 2019 ב-0:15 מאת ‪Jon Harald Søby‬‏ <‪
jhs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hello all,
>
> I'm on a streak now. Very relevant YouTube link
> .
>
> I reached out Dr. Yuan-chao Tung, who is the director of the Center for
> Indigenous Studies at National Taiwan University in order to help find
> someone who can verify the language for the Sakizaya Wikipedia [1]. He
> referred me to an Austronesian languages expert who basically said that it
> would be difficult to find an *independent* expert because all of the
> scholars who are experts in Sakizaya are already contributors to it! That's
> more than good enough of a verification for me. :-)
>
> Their activity [2] has been steady for a long time, with plenty of
> contributors. The localization [3] is done for the most used messages (they
> have actually translated around *6,000 MediaWiki messages* – 10 times
> what's required! MediaWiki core is 74 % finished, and several extensions
> are translated as well). Note that their language code, [szy], is very new
> – it was approved in January of this year. Before that, they used the
> language code [ais], which has now been deprecated in ISO 639. It's a long
> story. Until today [4] the language code [ais] was still used for Sakizaya
> in MediaWiki, but me and Nikerabbit (I did the easy parts, Nikerabbit the
> hard parts) changed it to the correct [szy].
>
> Something to celebrate about this is that it will be the first Wikipedia
> in an indigenous language of Taiwan. Taiwan is considered the birthplace of
> the Austronesian language family, and it is there that the variety of
> Austronesian languages is greatest – out the primary branches of
> Austronesian languages, all but one (the Malayo-Polynesian languages) are
> spoken exclusively in Taiwan. So this will be a nice extension of
> Wikimedia's language diversity.
>
> Another interesting thing about this language is that it doesn't seem to
> use capital letters at the start of sentences, but only in proper nouns.
> This will be the second language Wikipedia (after Lojban) to need to have
> the $wgCapitalLinks setting set to 'false'. :-)
>
> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/szy
> [2]
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/szy&wiki=incubatorwiki
> [3] https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=szy
> [4] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174601
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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Re: [Langcom] Content in Lese

[Amir E. Aharoni]

The very short answer is that it can be on Incubator or Multilingual
Wikisource.

I'm not sure whether it qualifies as a Wikipedia article, a news post, or a
translation of an academic article. If it's the latter, then it can be on
the Multilingual Wikisource. If it's a Wikipedia article or a news post,
then someone can make a Wikinews or Wikipedia Incubator and post it there.
I can help doing it.

In principle I have no problem at all if for a while it will remain the
only thing in this language posted on Wikimedia projects. However, I have
to note that I'm not sure how useful will it be in practice. Wikinews sites
are not so popular in general, and even less so in the Incubator. A
Wikipedia article in the Incubator is also hard to discover given the
current technology; that's why I've been trying to promote
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T228745 .

The best long-term outcome is that the person who wrote this translation
writes more useful articles that can be posted on a Wikipedia or Wikibooks
Incubator. (Wikibooks is an underappreciated project, but it could be
useful for small languages where a full-blown encyclopedia can be overkill.)

(Also, if the original English article [1] is in the public domain (and as
far as I can see, it is), then it can also be posted, probably on the
English Wikisource.)

[1]
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/independent-monitoring-board-recommends-early-termination-ebola-therapeutics-trial-drc-because-favorable-results-two-four-candidates

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 2 באוק׳ 2019 ב-3:43 מאת ‪James Heilman‬‏ <‪jmh...@gmail.com
‬‏>:‬

> Hey All
>
> We have some content in Lese under an open license on Ebola. It is a
> translation of this
> https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/independent-monitoring-board-recommends-early-termination-ebola-therapeutics-trial-drc-because-favorable-results-two-four-candidates
>
>
> Anywere it could live in the Wikipedia world?
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> Àngúdzù nà Óongɨ̀nɨ́ tòdhú nà àkɨsodzà ɨhdengu ba ùdhú òya
> dhu adhì àtona  ladze ladze nà òbénɨ ayi àsɨ̀lebhɨ òndè nà
> Èbhòlà bhayi iìwé RDC  adhì bho, àkisubà londɨ nà ɨlèmba ayi
> àmʉdó nà èdzo adhì bho bà édzɨ́tò adhì kèke bànɨ́.
>
>
>
> Oòngó òyɨ mʉ̀bhʉ́ bha 12 ánɨ̀ uùlénɨ̀ òyɨ bha 09 2019, àkokpè
> àmʉ̀dó nà òndè ánɨ̀ adhi àbhé 681 ɨlèbhɨ́ dhu bhàbè bànɨ́
> àmʉ̀dó kadza 725. Òndè nà Èbòlà lùsí badhì nà édzɨ́tò adhì
> kèke bà akòkpè àmʉ̀dó nà òndè ánɨ̀ adhì àbhé:  Ìbhógú na
> Katwa bà, Butembo bà àba Mangina bà. Ʉmbá lùsí bà nà ledhì
> ayɨ̀kasʉ́ nà sòkú nà kàlʉ̀ ayi nà àsɨ̀tagà « Institut national de
> recherche biomédicale » (INRB), àba àngúdzù ngbówú nà ʉ̀mbá lùsí
> bhayi nà ìbhórú ànda nà RDC ayi, àba ùdhu òya nà ʉ̀mbá lùsí
> bhadhì dhèkú èdzɨnà, àtagà ɨ̀dhé : Oòngɨ̀nɨ́ nà ùdhú òya dhú
> àyi nà ìbhógú nbgówú ɨ̀nɨ́ kèke ayi, tòdhó lʉ́bhó ánɨ̀
> (Alliance pour action medicale international, (ALIMA) àba, International
> Medical Corps (IMC), àba óbhó ʉ̀mbá lùsí tòdhú nà áwé èmbi ayi,
> tòdhó lʉ́bhó ánɨ̀ Médecin sans frontière, MSF), ùdhu òya ndɨ̀kà nà
> àsɨ̀taga : Edhi àmba nɨ òdhò ɨ̀dhó dhu,(ensemble pour sauver la vie)
> kadza lebhɨ lebhɨ nà àkɨsɨtayi àba àkɨsendà ɨ́ngámá ayi, ámʉ̀dó
> nà èlu ènda ndɨ́le ánɨ̀ àkɨsodzà kàlʉ̀ adhì, ɨ̀dhe àtagà (ZMapp,
> àba remdesivir, àba mAb114 àba RGEN-EB3), ɨ̀dhe àkɨbhà àmʉ̀dó nà
> àkɨsubà òndè nà Èbhòlà bhayi adhì ʉ̀mbá lùsí dhu. Táyí táyí
> ndɨ̀le kúkànɨ́ òyɨ mʉ̀dhʉ́ bha 20 tìmbá bha àmbʉ̀dzɨ́ ídzù èdhi
> ánɨ̀ 2018 ìbhógú ngbúwú nà Congo kèke bà (RDC) oòto adzɨbà bhé
> ayiwè òbénɨ òndè nà Ebola bha mʉ̀sʉ̀fʉ̀ àmʉ̀dó ibhèli ìbhógú
> ànda légò nà Nord-Kivu àba Ituri kèke bà ayi.
>
>
>
> Lebhɨ lebhɨ nà leyi àngúdzù nà àsɨ̀tʉnvʉ èlú ɨ̀nɨ́ nà àkisubà
> táyí táyí kèke bà ayi àdhì àba tʉ̀nvʉ tòdhú ɨ̀nɨ́ nà àsùyà
> ùdhú àmʉ̀dó dhèkú èmbi bà adhì nà àsʉ̀dza aàdúnɨ̀ òyɨ édhí
> édhi èlu ndɨ̀le lòndɨ dhú adhì ɨ̀nɨ́ àwʉ̀dza oòto. Londɨ nà
> ɨ́ngamá ùdhú kàkɨ dhú ayi èdɨ dhú adzɨtayí ɨ̀nɨ́ nà ùdhú ndɨ̀le
> àkɨsukà adhì nɨ́. Lebhɨ lebhɨ nà òyɨ mʉ̀bhʉ́ bha 09 tìmbá bha
> gbàndà ánɨ̀ 2019 ánɨ̀ ayi nɨ́ lɨvʉ, DSMB kɨtòna àkamòbhò táyí
> táyí àba àkamòkpè bhàbè òndè tòdhú nà àselè lɨvʉ adhì
> REGN-EB3 ɨ̀ngó dhu àba mAb114 áwé nà àsɨkasɨlòndɨ̀ táyí táyí
> kɨsalenɨ̀ ayi. Lonndɨ nà leyi kadza lèdzɨ́nɨ́ táyí táyí ná REGN-EB3
> kɨsoyà ayi kɨsɨlafù àmʉ̀dó nà àsɨ̀londɨ̀ àkòbhò táyí táyí
> adhì ʉ̀webhʉ ɨ́ngámá ayi nɨ́bà. Àkɨsubà àmʉ̀dó nà 499 adhì nà
> àkɨselè táyí táyí bà adhì bho bà adh

Re: [Langcom] Approving Wikipedia in Balinese

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I support this, and I was just about to propose this myself.

I already spoke about this to Tjahja Wirjadisastra from Wikimedia
Indonesia, and he approves it, so I would say it's good to go.

בתאריך יום ה׳, 26 בספט׳ 2019, 18:39, מאת Jon Harald Søby ‏:

> Hi all!
>
> I would like to suggest approving Wikipedia in Balinese
>  at ban.wikipedia.org. The
> Incubator wiki has had a lot of activity, with more than 1,300 articles –
> of which a random sample looks very promising. The most used messages and
> more have been translated
> ,
> and there is steady activity
> 
> in Incubator.
>
> As for experts, I think it would suffice to contact someone in Wikimedia
> Indonesia to confirm this language – it is, after all, a relatively
> well-known language, at least in the region, so it should be an easy task
> for them to confirm its validity.
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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Re: [Langcom] Croatian Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 2 בספט׳ 2019 ב-10:43 מאת ‪James Heilman‬‏ <‪jmh...@gmail.com
‬‏>:‬
> One question, we have Crotian and Serbo-Croatian... How significant is
the difference?

Now that's a question for the Language committee, although it's one of the
most complicated ones :)

Before I begin and you run away from descriptions, let me say that the most
important parts of this email are not about Slavic linguistics, so bear
with me.

So: As far as the languages themselves go, the differences are very minor
as far as I know. Many people say that they are smaller than the
differences between British and American English, but I cannot vouch for it
myself.

In real life, I heard people from Serbia and Croatia talking to each other
in their languages (Wikipedians and non-Wikipedians), and they all said
that it's the same language with different names.

More closely to our world, I saw multiple people copying whole articles
from the Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia to the Croatian one, and back without
changing any text.

There are some differences in vocabulary: Croatian has a long tradition of
being more puristic in technical terminology, as well as in names of months
and some other things, but the text is nevertheless readable both ways.
Most of the vocabulary, grammar, and spelling rules are the same, however.

In addition to these two, there are also the Serbian Wikipedia and the
Bosnian Wikipedia. Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbo-Croatian are all written
only in the Latin alphabet, and they are all pretty much the same language,
with the differences being as described above. The Serbian Wikipedia is
written primarily in the Cyrillic alphabet, but automatic script conversion
is installed there.

The reason for the split are complex, but primarily political: there were
many arguments about the name of the language even before the Balkan wars
in the 1990s, and then the wars and the breakup of Yugoslavia only
intensified them. Serbo-Croatian was an attempt to have a unified standard
language with allowance for local standardized varieties, and it could be
quite practical, but it somehow happened that we got four Wikipedias anyway.

To complicate things even further, there is a request to create a
Montenegrin Wikipedia, which would be a yet another nearly-identical
variety. The Language committee is mostly opposed to doing it, although
there are also people who think that since it has a valid ISO 639 code, and
all the other varieties got their own domain, it's fair to give this one
its own domain, too.

In theory, they could all live in one Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia, with
automatic conversion of script and terminology, similar to how it's done
with Chinese and with the different locales of English, Portuguese, and
German. In practice, it's probably too difficult by now to unify them. It
definitely cannot be done by an order from the Board, the Stewards, or the
Language committee. The only scenario for this is to reach a very wide
consensus among all the active editors of the Croatian, Bosnian, and
Serbo-Croatian Wikipedias and to start gradually moving all the editing
activity to one of them, and making the other two read-only. The Serbian
Wikipedia should probably remain distinct because the Cyrillic alphabet is
common in Serbia. This scenario is *kind of* imaginable, but isn't likely
to actually happen.

To connect it all to the ongoing political issue in the Croatian Wikipedia:
One could ask at this point whether this issue is a demonstration of why
too much splitting of wikis by language and country is a problem. Perhaps
it is and perhaps it isn't; I am reluctant about making a strong judgment
here without knowing the languages in question well enough.

I do, however, want to add another point, which isn't frequently discussed,
even though it really should be, because it's probably the most important
one: Are these discussions about the editors community, or about the
readers? The sites are ultimately supposed to serve the readers and not
just the editors. We cannot know much about the readers because they are
usually quiet by their nature. We can, though, look at readership
statistics per country in the relevant countries.

Here is some super-basic data from the Turnilo tool for analyzing Wikimedia
traffic. (This tool is not public. I have access to it as a WMF staff
member, and I can publish some high-level non-private data.) I looked at
the traffic to Wikimedia projects per country. Here's the list of the most
popular editions of Wikipedia in each country for the first half of 2019:

Bosnia and Herzegovina: en, hr, sr, bs, sh, ru, de
Croatia: en, hr, bs, sh, de, ru, sr
Montenegro: sr, en, sh, hr, ru, bs, de
Serbia: sr, en, sh, ru, hr, hu, bs

What can we see here?

* Serbian is the most popular in Montenegro and Serbia. (And note that
Serbian is the most popular in Montenegro, even though the Latin alphabet
is much more popular there from what I've heard. However, I have no way to
know whether the readers get the Latin or 

Re: [Langcom] Croatian Wikipedia

[Amir E. Aharoni]

The Stewards, indeed, sound like the first people to talk to about this.

The Language committee should be about the languages themselves, and not so
much about what is said in them.

--
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http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 2 בספט׳ 2019 ב-9:34 מאת ‪Gerard Meijssen‬‏ <‪
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hoi,
> We could. However, we are not the best positioned group to do so. The
> stewards come to mind. The trust and safety committee.. but to be honest
> the board of trustees is the organisation that indicates the importance of
> these issues, has a responsibility to us as a movement and it can direct
> the WMF to do whatever.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 at 07:25, James Heilman  wrote:
>
>> Wondering if this group would be interested in bringing forwards a
>> proposal?
>>
>> This was just published
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2019-08-30/Opinion
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> ___
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>>
> ___
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Re: [Langcom] Proposed amendment to LPP (was: Final approval for four projects)

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Sorry, no.

No verification at all and simply assuming good faith after some arbitrary
time is asking for trouble. There already were cases of hoaxes in the past.
Not many cases, but they did happen, and we're talking about a whole site,
even one case is major trouble.

HOWEVER, I absolutely do recognize that we have unnecessary and harmful
bottlenecks in the approval process, and because of that I'm working on
another proposal that will ease up at least some of these bottlenecks.

I've just came back from Wikimania, and I'm immediately going for a
vacation until the end of August, but after that—expect surprises,
hopefully good ones.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 20 באוג׳ 2019 ב-20:31 מאת ‪Steven White‬‏ <‪
koala19...@hotmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Gerard wrote:
>
> 
> Hoi,
> Define unreasonable. Amir gave an estimation when it is reasonable to
> expect a result.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
> 
>
> For the current instance, based on where we are now, Amir's estimation is
> fine. As long as someone is actually trying to follow up on these projects,
> and gives a reasonable estimate as to how long it will take, I'm fine.
>
> James's question, and mine, is more around the big picture.  Please
> remember that three of the four projects we are talking about here (Guiane
> Creole WP, Saraiki WP, Tacawit Wiktionary) were identified in an email I
> wrote on 17 December 2018 (about eight months ago) as already being
> provisionally approved and awaiting language verification. The fourth (Mon
> WP) is perhaps a month newer.  But 7-8 months and longer—Saraiki WP was
> provisionally approved in October 2018—is absolutely not reasonable by any
> standard.  Quite frankly, I was desperate to do something to move these
> along, because being nice and playing by the rules was doing absolutely
> nothing. (Remember, too, that I wrote pleasant, polite reminders to the
> committee about these four projects on March 14 and June 6.) I'm sorry,
> Gerard, that you didn't like me doing what I did. But what I did is far
> less objectionable than requiring communities to wait this long for us to
> complete language verification.
>
> To that end, I am proposing the following amendment to the provision about
> language verification. I am open to some adjustments, but allowing projects
> to sit this long and wait *for us* is just not acceptable.  Where this
> amendment is to be added is in the Language Committee's Handbook, Final
> Approval
> ,
> item #2. Subitem #3 is to be followed by new subitem #4:
>
> 4. The Language Committee has 30 days from the time a project is
> provisionally approved—meaning: approved, except for language
> verification—to identify and contact an expert for the language
> verification. If no expert is contacted within 30 days, then on the
> assumption of good faith, the project will be finally approved.  If an
> expert is contacted within 30 days, the Language Committee has an
> additional 60 days to obtain the final language verification. If no
> language verification (or failure of language verification) is received by
> then, on the assumption of good faith, the project will be finally
> approved. Overall, any project for which the Language Committee has failed
> to get language verification (or failure of language verification) within
> 90 days will be approved on the assumption of good faith.
>
> I think this gives us plenty of time to do what we need to do, without
> requiring communities to wait on us for months without comment.  This would
> apply for all projects receiving provisional approval from this point on.
> But in parallel, given that Amir started working on these four projects
> around August 15, I would also propose that if we have not finalized
> language verification by October 15, these four projects also be finally
> approved.
>
> Steven
>
> Sent from Outlook 
>
>
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Re: [Langcom] Final approval for four projects

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I don't know about Gerard, but I am working on reaching out to language
experts about all of these.

I suspect that there won't be replies until the end of August because of
the vacation season, but I do hope for progress in September.

I don't agree to approval without verification.

בתאריך יום ו׳, 16 באוג׳ 2019, 15:45, מאת Steven White ‏<
koala19...@hotmail.com>:

> Gerard, does this mean that you are reaching out to language experts?
> Which ones? Thanks!
>
> Steven
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Re: [Langcom] Are language codes like mul-latn, mul-cyrl, etc. valid?

[Amir E. Aharoni]

I'm not sure I understand.

My question is not whether names are written the same way in the same
alphabet. Of course sometimes they aren't.

My questions is also not whether the idea of fallback by script is good. It
is to be discussed in Wikidata discussion pages.

My questions is whether a code like mul-latn is valid. Is it standard to
use "mul", which is a somewhat special code with a script code? The codes
sr-latn and sr-cyrl are clearly valid, but sr is a usual language code,
whereas mul is a bit different. So can mul be used in such a context just
like a code for an actual language? Does anyone know for certain?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 13 באוג׳ 2019 ב-15:55 מאת ‪Gerard Meijssen‬‏ <‪
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬

> Hoi,
> I do not think so. Names are in the same script not commons.. Hungarian
> comes to mind. It will create a mess,.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 09:47, Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In Wikidata there was a proposal to add special fallback pseudo-languages
>> to make it possible to have labels that work by writing system rather than
>> by language:
>>
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2019/06#Multilanguage_label
>>
>> The proposal was to use language codes such as mul-latn, etc.
>>
>> It kind of makes sense to me, but I'd like to ask the language code
>> standards experts in the committee: is such usage standard?
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>
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[Langcom] Are language codes like mul-latn, mul-cyrl, etc. valid?

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

In Wikidata there was a proposal to add special fallback pseudo-languages
to make it possible to have labels that work by writing system rather than
by language:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2019/06#Multilanguage_label

The proposal was to use language codes such as mul-latn, etc.

It kind of makes sense to me, but I'd like to ask the language code
standards experts in the committee: is such usage standard?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: [Langcom] N'Ko Wikipedia approval suggestion

[Amir E. Aharoni]

There were no objections for a week, so I'm moving to approve it.

בתאריך יום ב׳, 5 באוג׳ 2019, 11:31, מאת Gerard Meijssen ‏<
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> Happy
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 09:57, Amir E. Aharoni 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I suggest approving the N'Ko Wikipedia at nqo.wikipedia.org .
>>
>> The Incubator[1] has been fairly active, the translation of all the most
>> used messages is complete[2] and the localization activity is going on[3].
>>
>> Dr. Coleman Donaldson, a linguistic anthropologist who investigates
>> language, literacy and society in Manding-speaking West Africa,[4] and
>> author of several papers on N'Ko language and culture says that the texts
>> in the Incubator are indeed written in N'Ko (see the forwarded email below).
>>
>> Any objections?
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nqo
>> [2]
>> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?filter=%21translated&action=translate&language=nqo&group=core-0-mostused
>> [3] https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Nqo
>> [4] https://www.colemandonaldson.com/
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> מאת: Coleman Donaldson 
>> ‪Date: יום ב׳, 5 באוג׳ 2019 ב-10:39‬
>> Subject: Re: N'Ko incubator
>> To: Amir E. Aharoni 
>>
>>
>> Morning!
>>
>> I just had a look and a few random pages and indeed, they were all
>> written in "proper N'ko".
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Coleman
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:24 PM Amir E. Aharoni <
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> How are you?
>>>
>>> We spoke about the N'Ko Wikipedia incubator once.
>>>
>>> I am thinking about approving it for a full domain, which will be at
>>> https://nqo.wikipedia.org .
>>>
>>> For this we need a confirmation from somebody who knows the language
>>> that this is indeed written in it. Can you please check that the pages in
>>> the list at
>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Wp%2Fnqo&namespace=0&hideredirects=1
>>> look like they are written in proper N'Ko?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coleman Donaldson
>> +49.1525.1587689 (Germany)
>> +1.267-269-6243 (US)
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>>
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Re: [Langcom] I need help

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Hi,

There's a phenomenon on wikis: Sometimes, when a person becomes an expert
at doing some kind of routine work, everyone else gets used to it and
decides that they don't have to do it, because the expert will take care of
it. No-one even bothers to learn the expert's modus operandi.
Unfortunately, the possibility that the expert will burn doesn't occur to
anyone. I am guilty of this myself.

Steven, I appreciate your work immensely. As a clerk, you reinvigorated the
Language committee's work and improved our processes.

Please let me where can I help, and I'll try my best.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 5 באוג׳ 2019 ב-1:13 מאת ‪Steven White‬‏ <‪
koala19...@hotmail.com‬‏>:‬

> I need help. I'm doing all the work right now, and it's not fun any more.
> If I don't see some real commitments from some of you to get back involved
> ON-WIKI in about the next week, I intend to resign as clerk and as sysop on
> Incubator, and I'll leave the mess behind for the rest of you.
>
> Steven White
> koala19...@hotmail.com
> Sent from Outlook  for iOS
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