Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-06-18 Thread Oliver Stegen 
Well, I don't see that the English Wikipedia community would necessarily 
agree to be the repository of another language's translation articles 
which should never be changed to deviate from the original Noongar articles.


--Oliver


On 24-May-18 08:46, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
That's what I understand as well; what I don't completely is why can't 
these articles simply be on the English Wikipedia. But again, I'm only 
saying that I'm puzzled, and I'm not blocking this.



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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-05-24 9:31 GMT+03:00 Oliver Stegen >:


As far as I understand, the English namespace of the Noongar
wikipedia is not meant to be a duplication of English wikipedia
articles but rather *translations* of Noongar articles for those
Noongar whose language skills are not good enough to the Noongar
straight away. Reading the corresponding en:wp articles will not
help them to understand Noongar any better, so that's why they
propose an English namespace at the Noongar wikipedia. I hope I
got that right because my support of the English namespace at
Noongar wikipedia is resting on that understanding.

Oliver


On 23-May-18 21:28, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:

As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes
out of the Incubator, this should probably be fine.

Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in
English be needed. If they already exist in the English
Wikipedia, then the knowledge is already disseminated, and they
shouldn't be duplicated. If they cannot exist in the English
Wikipedia because of the latter's strict referencing policy...
I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will indeed become a
reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a way that is
different from the Western academic style. Maybe it will become a
collection of unreliable information. And maybe it will become a
POV fork of the English Wikipedia. I am not implying anything; I
honestly don't know.

If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't
be the one who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears
convoluted.


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White mailto:koala19...@hotmail.com>>:

User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on
Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating
with User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project. They make the
following comment and suggestion:


The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the
desire to spread/record knowledge of the local culture;
2. the inability of many tribal people (no offense meant,
I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English
speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use
"aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar
language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the
creation of a separate namespace in which English
translations are provided, while the pages themselves are
written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace
free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is
still available to those interested, who are not able to
understand or have difficulty understanding the language
itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to
spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as
providing a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the
Nyungar language about all subjects.


In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises
that all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as
well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help
with the implementation.

It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's
requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well
as the community's desire that there also be English
available to support wider dissemination of information.

I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.

Steven


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Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-05-24 Thread Amir E. Aharoni 
That's what I understand as well; what I don't completely is why can't
these articles simply be on the English Wikipedia. But again, I'm only
saying that I'm puzzled, and I'm not blocking this.


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-05-24 9:31 GMT+03:00 Oliver Stegen :

> As far as I understand, the English namespace of the Noongar wikipedia is
> not meant to be a duplication of English wikipedia articles but rather
> *translations* of Noongar articles for those Noongar whose language skills
> are not good enough to the Noongar straight away. Reading the corresponding
> en:wp articles will not help them to understand Noongar any better, so
> that's why they propose an English namespace at the Noongar wikipedia. I
> hope I got that right because my support of the English namespace at
> Noongar wikipedia is resting on that understanding.
>
> Oliver
>
> On 23-May-18 21:28, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
>
> As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes out of the
> Incubator, this should probably be fine.
>
> Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in English be
> needed. If they already exist in the English Wikipedia, then the knowledge
> is already disseminated, and they shouldn't be duplicated. If they cannot
> exist in the English Wikipedia because of the latter's strict referencing
> policy... I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will indeed become a
> reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a way that is different
> from the Western academic style. Maybe it will become a collection of
> unreliable information. And maybe it will become a POV fork of the English
> Wikipedia. I am not implying anything; I honestly don't know.
>
> If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't be the
> one who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears convoluted.
>
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
> 2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White :
>
>> User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator
>> and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of
>> the Noongar project.  They make the following comment and suggestion:
>>
>>
>> The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to
>> spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many
>> tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native
>> English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use
>> "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A
>> simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in
>> which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are
>> written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English,
>> while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested,
>> who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the
>> language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the
>> knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad
>> encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects.
>>
>>
>> In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all
>> articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And
>> OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation.
>>
>> It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement
>> that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire
>> that there also be English available to support wider dissemination of
>> information.
>>
>> I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook 
>>
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>>
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Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-05-24 Thread Oliver Stegen 
As far as I understand, the English namespace of the Noongar wikipedia 
is not meant to be a duplication of English wikipedia articles but 
rather *translations* of Noongar articles for those Noongar whose 
language skills are not good enough to the Noongar straight away. 
Reading the corresponding en:wp articles will not help them to 
understand Noongar any better, so that's why they propose an English 
namespace at the Noongar wikipedia. I hope I got that right because my 
support of the English namespace at Noongar wikipedia is resting on that 
understanding.


Oliver


On 23-May-18 21:28, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes out of 
the Incubator, this should probably be fine.


Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in English 
be needed. If they already exist in the English Wikipedia, then the 
knowledge is already disseminated, and they shouldn't be duplicated. 
If they cannot exist in the English Wikipedia because of the latter's 
strict referencing policy... I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will 
indeed become a reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a 
way that is different from the Western academic style. Maybe it will 
become a collection of unreliable information. And maybe it will 
become a POV fork of the English Wikipedia. I am not implying 
anything; I honestly don't know.


If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't be 
the one who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears convoluted.



--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White >:


User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on
Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with
User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project.  They make the following
comment and suggestion:


The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire
to spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the
inability of many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not
from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so please
do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak
or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution
to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in which
English translations are provided, while the pages themselves
are written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free
of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still
available to those interested, who are not able to understand
or have difficulty understanding the language itself. This
way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the knowledge of
the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad
encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects.


In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that
all articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in
English. And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the
implementation.

It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's
requirement that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the
community's desire that there also be English available to support
wider dissemination of information.

I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.

Steven


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Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-05-23 Thread Amir E. Aharoni 
As long as the articles in Nyungar are written _before_ it goes out of the
Incubator, this should probably be fine.

Although I still don't quite understand why would articles in English be
needed. If they already exist in the English Wikipedia, then the knowledge
is already disseminated, and they shouldn't be duplicated. If they cannot
exist in the English Wikipedia because of the latter's strict referencing
policy... I'm not sure what to say. Maybe it will indeed become a
reasonable solution for disseminating knowledge in a way that is different
from the Western academic style. Maybe it will become a collection of
unreliable information. And maybe it will become a POV fork of the English
Wikipedia. I am not implying anything; I honestly don't know.

If this helps actual articles in Nyungar to get written, I won't be the one
who blocks it, but I do have to note that it appears convoluted.


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-05-18 16:52 GMT+03:00 Steven White :

> User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator
> and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of
> the Noongar project.  They make the following comment and suggestion:
>
>
> The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to
> spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many
> tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native
> English speaker, so please do correct my terminology [I'd use
> "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar language fluently. A
> simple solution to this would be the creation of a separate namespace in
> which English translations are provided, while the pages themselves are
> written in Nyungar. This will keep the main namespace free of English,
> while the knowledge to the culture is still available to those interested,
> who are not able to understand or have difficulty understanding the
> language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the
> knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for a broad
> encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all subjects.
>
>
> In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all
> articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And
> OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation.
>
> It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that
> the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that
> there also be English available to support wider dissemination of
> information.
>
> I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.
>
> Steven
>
>
> Sent from Outlook 
>
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Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-05-23 Thread Oliver Stegen 

You requested comments, so here is mine:

I don't know about the technicalities of creating separate namespaces 
but in principle, that sounds like a good solution to me. I understand 
that it means any visitor to the Noongar wikipedia will first see 
Noongar only, and for translations into English, there would be 
something like a separate tab or so (like the different dialects at als:wp).


If that's the case, i.e. if I've understood correctly, then I'm fine 
with that solution.


Cheers,
Oliver


On 18-May-18 14:52, Steven White wrote:


User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on 
Incubator and Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with 
User:Gnangarra of the Noongar project.  They make the following 
comment and suggestion:



The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to
spread/record knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of
many tribal people (no offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor
am I a native English speaker, so please do correct my terminology
[I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or understand the Nyungar
language fluently. A simple solution to this would be the creation
of a separate namespace in which English translations are
provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This
will keep the main namespace free of English, while the knowledge
to the culture is still available to those interested, who are not
able to understand or have difficulty understanding the language
itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be used both to spread the
knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing a base for
a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all
subjects.


In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all 
articles will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. 
And OosWesThoesBes has committed to help with the implementation.


It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement 
that the project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's 
desire that there also be English available to support wider 
dissemination of information.


I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.

Steven


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[Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-05-18 Thread Steven White 
User:OosWesThoesBes, who is a sysop and active contributor on Incubator and 
Multilingual Wikisource, has been collaborating with User:Gnangarra of the 
Noongar project.  They make the following comment and suggestion:


The main issue here seems to lie in two things: 1. the desire to spread/record 
knowledge of the local culture; 2. the inability of many tribal people (no 
offense meant, I'm not from Australia, nor am I a native English speaker, so 
please do correct my terminology [I'd use "aboriginal"–SJW]) to speak or 
understand the Nyungar language fluently. A simple solution to this would be 
the creation of a separate namespace in which English translations are 
provided, while the pages themselves are written in Nyungar. This will keep the 
main namespace free of English, while the knowledge to the culture is still 
available to those interested, who are not able to understand or have 
difficulty understanding the language itself. This way, the Wikipedia can be 
used both to spread the knowledge of the Nyungar culture, as well as providing 
a base for a broad encyclopedia written in the Nyungar language about all 
subjects.

In response to a question from MF-Warburg, Gnangarra promises that all articles 
will be completely written in Nyungar as well as in English. And OosWesThoesBes 
has committed to help with the implementation.

It seems to me that this solution would satisfy LangCom's requirement that the 
project be written in Nyungar, as well as the community's desire that there 
also be English available to support wider dissemination of information.

I'd request the Committee's comments/opinions on this idea.

Steven


Sent from Outlook
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Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-04-03 Thread Gnangarra 
Kaya

Thank you for a link to discussions that took place, for which I wasnt
aware of.  Noongar and English as I have explained have significant cross
over, such that english in Western Australia uses many words the two
languages blur together.  Additionally for many concepts including
counting, measuring of time, there are no noongar comparatives like wise
many words carry both a positive, a negative and plural meanings dependent
on use.  I know you would like to see to more Noongar language and these
will come with community growth. The incubator setup has become a barrier
to wider participation within a community where digital literacy is also
english dependent. The Noongar community has already showen great trust and
good faith in working with us, its our turn to reciprocate before we are at
an impasse who's negative impact will have a long lasting impediment to
Australian Indigenous knowledge being shared by Australian Indigenous
communities.

What I find disappointing is that not one member of the language committee
has made any attempt to actually contact myself or any other nys
contributor to get an understanding of the language, the culture, and the
history.Unfortunately despite many attempts to bring the decision
makers to Australia to gain an understanding of has continually fallen on
deaf ears. I find it rather surprising that the language committee sits in
judgement of a community, its knowledge, its culture, its worth, and
whether it contributes to the sum of all knowledge without ever making an
in person visit.


In the four years ago this project started with a question to Australian
Research Council of "Why was there no Noongar Wikipedia", the initial
response from the WMF was to engage lawyers and threaten the people who
asked. The ARC funded the Noongar community through 2 Universities.  That
community was hit hard by the WMF response, as a testament to the very
koort and weirn of the noonagr  they didnt give up.  They found local
wikipedians and I decide to help answer their question with "because no one
had tried".  Wikimedia Australia supported this work, we grew it from
multiple wikis hosted by WMAU into the incubator, along the way we built a
community of editors and helped develop some very skilled contributors.
Personally I unexpectedly embarked on a journey that despite growing up and
living in Western Australia I saw in the depths of some the worse depravity
created on basis of chosen ignorance and exercising of power.

We are custodians of knowledge, our role is to share the sum of all
knowledge to ensure that that knowledge is passed down to future
generations.  We are not here to decide which cultures knowledge will be
cast aside even if they live, speak, and write in two worlds.  We are
definitely not here to stand in judgement over culture because it doesnt
comply with the way in which European cultures expect, thats been tried
here for the last 200 odd years it doesnt work.   Our biggest problem with
Noongar language is that which was created by Europeans where because
individuals came from different cultures, British, French, German, Spanish,
Italian each recorded noongar as they wrote their own language and none
ever look at the whole of the community.  WMF has been able to pick the low
fruit with languages so far, I ask you to start picking the fruit higher up
the tree.  We havent come to the WMF or the language committee to beg to be
accepted, we are inviting you to joins us to learn, to understand , to
experience the true purpose of knowledge sharing.  To under take a journey
into cultures that have been sharing their knowledge freely for over 50,000
years and learn what it means to be custodians knowledge for future
generations.

Katitjiny-ang yennar
   knowledge belongs to all

On 3 April 2018 at 22:39, Amir E. Aharoni 
wrote:

> Hi Gideon,
>
> You write: "we use a lot of english".
>
> That is a major understatement. I didn't count precisely, but my
> impression is that it's more than 90% English. That's not "a lot of
> English", that's almost exclusively English.
>
> This incubator is not a draft for a Wikipedia in the Nyungar language.
> This is a draft for a wiki website with articles about the Nyungar people
> and culture, and it's mostly written in the English language.
>
> The existence of such a website is legitimate. It is even desirable for
> the Wikimedia movement to host such a site, given the known practical
> challenges of writing about non-Western cultures in Wikipedia in English
> and other major languages.
>
> The problem is that even though it's legitimate and desirable, it is just
> not something that the Language committee can approve because it is not
> similar to any other wiki site in the Wikimedia family of sites.
>
> A new kind of site could be created for this, but this is a discussion
> that must happen beyond the Language committee. The WMF board and the wide
> Wikimedia community must be involved in

Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-04-03 Thread Amir E. Aharoni 
Hi Gideon,

You write: "we use a lot of english".

That is a major understatement. I didn't count precisely, but my impression
is that it's more than 90% English. That's not "a lot of English", that's
almost exclusively English.

This incubator is not a draft for a Wikipedia in the Nyungar language. This
is a draft for a wiki website with articles about the Nyungar people and
culture, and it's mostly written in the English language.

The existence of such a website is legitimate. It is even desirable for the
Wikimedia movement to host such a site, given the known practical
challenges of writing about non-Western cultures in Wikipedia in English
and other major languages.

The problem is that even though it's legitimate and desirable, it is just
not something that the Language committee can approve because it is not
similar to any other wiki site in the Wikimedia family of sites.

A new kind of site could be created for this, but this is a discussion that
must happen beyond the Language committee. The WMF board and the wide
Wikimedia community must be involved in discussing this. When such a
proposal is made in the right place, I may support it as a Wikimedia
community member, but I cannot support it as the Language committee member.

All of the above was already discussed on this mailing list publicly in
February. You can find the archive here:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/langcom/2018-February/thread.html .



--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-04-02 8:53 GMT+03:00 Gnangarra :

> Kaya
>
> Well were to now, the noongar community met in good faith every condition
> asked of it during 2017 includinng those asked by the committee while I was
> in Berlin, In December we posted the final request after completing the
> required translations.  Following those request we received what can
> politely be describe as poor responses.
>
>  I wont be in Berlin this year to again find out what new hoops we will be
> required to jump through.  I can say the outcome has been very poor, there
> has been no existent communication from the committee as a committee.  At
> this stage does the WMAU abandon  capturing 50,000 years of Australian
> Indigenous knowledge from across 300 countries in their languages.
>
> The ball must now rest with the language committee because there is no way
> I could take what little comment we have received back to the wider Noongar
> community who daily deal with racism, knowledge appropriation, and being
> dismissed.
>
> The greatest lesson at the moment for Australian Indigenous knowledge is
> dont engage with Wikimedia Foundation, because despite them acting good
> faith the outcomes will be no different to past experiences.
>
> So why did we work with Noongar
>
>- they wanted to work with us, ie language community driven
>- its one of the largest language groups
>- it has a clearly defined country
>- it is supported by 5 Universities
>- its the most influential Indigenous languages and culture on any
>Australian community with the greatest uptake of indigenous words into the
>locally spoken english so much so that both the language spoken and the
>Western Australia culture is uniquely identifiable from the rest of
>Australia.
>- its spoken in some form by 25.m despite the statistics
>
> Our challenges was in knowing that there actually 14 associated dialects,
> that they have spellings directly impacted by the european who recorded
> them.  My process has always been not to use WMF as means of enforcing one
> dialect over another, hence why we use a lot of english in the learning and
> a reluctance to do further translations because each choice should come
> when the community is doing it through consensus not at the hand of
> myself
>
>
> --
> Gideon Digby
> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
> M: 0434 986 852
> gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au
> http://wikimedia.org.au
>
> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
> supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate *
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Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-04-03 Thread Michael Everson 
We are the language committee, though, and I have seen examples of text for 
this proposed Wikipedia which were in English with one or two words like “and” 
globally translated into Noongar. That’s… just not what our committee approves. 

And it’s not what the Wikipedia does. 

This doesn’t mean we don’t care about indigenous knowledge, but what I saw 
isn’t something I can support, from the point of view of linguistics.

It seems that a useful job to do might be to help the 14 associated dialects to 
converge on a standard orthography. 

Michael Everson


> On 2 Apr 2018, at 06:53, Gnangarra  wrote:
> 
> Our challenges was in knowing that there actually 14 associated dialects, 
> that they have spellings directly impacted by the european who recorded them. 
>  My process has always been not to use WMF as means of enforcing one dialect 
> over another, hence why we use a lot of english in the learning and a 
> reluctance to do further translations because each choice should come when 
> the community is doing it through consensus not at the hand of myself
> 


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Re: [Langcom] Noongar Wikipedia

2018-04-03 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
As far as I am concerned there is only one issue. It is that a Wikipedia is
in the language it is supposed to be in. No English. A fixed orthography is
nice but it is not what the language committee requires.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On 2 April 2018 at 07:53, Gnangarra  wrote:

> Kaya
>
> Well were to now, the noongar community met in good faith every condition
> asked of it during 2017 includinng those asked by the committee while I was
> in Berlin, In December we posted the final request after completing the
> required translations.  Following those request we received what can
> politely be describe as poor responses.
>
>  I wont be in Berlin this year to again find out what new hoops we will be
> required to jump through.  I can say the outcome has been very poor, there
> has been no existent communication from the committee as a committee.  At
> this stage does the WMAU abandon  capturing 50,000 years of Australian
> Indigenous knowledge from across 300 countries in their languages.
>
> The ball must now rest with the language committee because there is no way
> I could take what little comment we have received back to the wider Noongar
> community who daily deal with racism, knowledge appropriation, and being
> dismissed.
>
> The greatest lesson at the moment for Australian Indigenous knowledge is
> dont engage with Wikimedia Foundation, because despite them acting good
> faith the outcomes will be no different to past experiences.
>
> So why did we work with Noongar
>
>- they wanted to work with us, ie language community driven
>- its one of the largest language groups
>- it has a clearly defined country
>- it is supported by 5 Universities
>- its the most influential Indigenous languages and culture on any
>Australian community with the greatest uptake of indigenous words into the
>locally spoken english so much so that both the language spoken and the
>Western Australia culture is uniquely identifiable from the rest of
>Australia.
>- its spoken in some form by 25.m despite the statistics
>
> Our challenges was in knowing that there actually 14 associated dialects,
> that they have spellings directly impacted by the european who recorded
> them.  My process has always been not to use WMF as means of enforcing one
> dialect over another, hence why we use a lot of english in the learning and
> a reluctance to do further translations because each choice should come
> when the community is doing it through consensus not at the hand of
> myself
>
>
> --
> Gideon Digby
> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
> M: 0434 986 852
> gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au
> http://wikimedia.org.au
>
> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
> supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate *
>
>
>
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