On 03/01/2012 04:25 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Please tell us *which* documentation tools you tried already, and
*why* you found them unusable.
(Not really wanting to enlarge the discussion even more, but as I have
been directly asked: )
Being sure that IDE help only makes sense to me
2012/3/2 Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de
Maybe it's a bit more than only improving documentation itself. The
project management part of it is to care for keeping docs up to date and
keep the shape following the needs. An example would be some kind of
general info pages about how the project
On 02.03.2012 20:32, Juha Manninen wrote:
2012/3/2 Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de mailto:m.santh...@web.de
Maybe it's a bit more than only improving documentation itself. The
project management part of it is to care for keeping docs up to date and
keep the shape following the
On 02/29/2012 06:17 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
I'm not familiar with CHM, don't know how this could be achieved. But
I assume that such a feature should be available already - who knows
more?
That is why I mainly concentrated on DocView and culpably ignored CHM help.
-Michael
--
On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 01:45:02AM +0200, Juha Manninen wrote:
Usually they are driven by a foundation and/or core team. Much like FPC
nowadays, with occasional alliances with commercial parties that sponsor a
certain development.
There are not many alternative routes.
I was
On Thu, 1 Mar 2012, Michael Schnell wrote:
On 03/01/2012 09:45 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
Don't blame the tools, don't blame core, don't blame the weather, just
start.
Sorry, I tried to keep my moth shut, but I can't.
If we want contributors who help enhancing the documentation, we are
On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 10:30:00AM +0100, Michael Schnell wrote:
Don't blame the tools, don't blame core, don't blame the weather, just
start.
Sorry, I tried to keep my moth shut, but I can't.
If we want contributors who help enhancing the documentation, we are
addressing quite normal
Rich Saunders schrieb:
On 2/29/12 7:35 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Juha Manninen schrieb:
So, what does the management mean in practice? Should Lazarus be
managed differently from how it is managed now?
IMO it's not so much a matter of management, but of mind shift. The
developers should
Martin schrieb:
On 01/03/2012 00:35, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Juha Manninen schrieb:
So, what does the management mean in practice? Should Lazarus be
managed differently from how it is managed now?
IMO it's not so much a matter of management, but of mind shift. The
developers should
Martin Schreiber schrieb:
I experience the same from time to time in MSEide+MSEgui project. People
complain missing documentation and write if there were good
documentation tools (which actually means if I would make them) they and
other users would write documentation.
Tools are not a
Michael Schnell schrieb:
On 03/01/2012 09:45 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote:
Don't blame the tools, don't blame core, don't blame the weather, just
start.
Sorry, I tried to keep my moth shut, but I can't.
If we want contributors who help enhancing the documentation, we are
addressing quite
2012/2/29, Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com:
I was hoping something more concrete and detailed, like ideas for helping
new potential contributors to get a softer landing. That was the original
idea of this thread.
Well, it's not so concrete, but this book might help clarify some
topics
On 3/1/12 8:58 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Rich Saunders schrieb:
On 2/29/12 7:35 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Juha Manninen schrieb:
So, what does the management mean in practice? Should Lazarus be
managed differently from how it is managed now?
IMO it's not so much a matter of
On 01/03/2012 14:54, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Martin schrieb:
On 01/03/2012 00:35, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Juha Manninen schrieb:
So, what does the management mean in practice? Should Lazarus be
managed differently from how it is managed now?
IMO it's not so much a matter of
Martin schrieb:
It does still cost time to write up all the info, and guarantees
nothing. While if someone wants to do work on something, there are
much better chances that the work (providing infos/answers) will bear
fruits.
This finally explains the often confuse and inconsistent
2012/3/1 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
That`s true. To get the softer landing improving the doc (and i think
the ways of it) would be enough. The project management is more about to
lead the people to achieve *common* goals. I don`t know how you people
from the core lives with so few
Em 01/03/2012, às 21:14, Juha Manninen escreveu:
2012/3/1 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
That`s true. To get the softer landing improving the doc (and i think the
ways of it) would be enough. The project management is more about to lead the
people to achieve common goals. I don`t know
Be warned, below there will follow a lot of personal opinions. ;)
Am Donnerstag, den 01.03.2012, 01:45 +0200 schrieb Juha Manninen:
2012/2/29 Marco van de Voort mar...@stack.nl
Usually they are driven by a foundation and/or core team. Much
like FPC
nowadays, with
Juha Manninen schrieb:
DoDi and others!!!
Please don't hijack this thread for whining about documentation and
docking and whatnot! You can do that in another thread if you must.
Besides, you are supposed to improve the documents, not whine all the
time like a baby. I don't know what is wrong
On 02/28/2012 10:59 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
What's missing from the current documentation tools?
After doing an addition to the help sources (supposedly using FPDoc, I
did not yet try to use it, but found the discussions on your recent
improvements to it very encouraging), how to
Sorry, I will return to you guys later about the project management issues.
I am busy for some time now.
I try to pick the essential parts. You could also think of the details of
how to implement some things.
Regards,
Juha
--
___
Lazarus mailing list
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 12:02:08AM +0200, Juha Manninen wrote:
This was the best idea so far. I think there is open source project
management programs available. However there is a big difference between
professionally run SW projects and hobby open source projects:
The term you look for is
2012/2/29 Marco van de Voort mar...@stack.nl
The term you look for is community driven project, not hobby. Many people
working on larger open source project can do so in a professional
environment.
It is just that the project direction is not owned by a company.
Note that many hybrids
Juha Manninen schrieb:
Now, your answers indicate you don't really know what you want. How does
fixing a bug or creating a new feature become easier if it is listed in
a project management GUI? It doesn't, you still have to learn and edit
the code.
This is where documentation is helpful.
Michael Schnell schrieb:
On 02/28/2012 10:59 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
What's missing from the current documentation tools?
After doing an addition to the help sources (supposedly using FPDoc, I
did not yet try to use it, but found the discussions on your recent
improvements to it very
On 02/29/2012 02:14 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
I don't see a need for combining everything into one help file, be PDF
or CHM.
Not one file but e.g. one multiple-file viewer. It should be possible to
search for information (keyword combinations) across the different files.
-Michael
--
Michael Schnell schrieb:
On 02/29/2012 02:14 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
I don't see a need for combining everything into one help file, be PDF
or CHM.
Not one file but e.g. one multiple-file viewer. It should be possible to
search for information (keyword combinations) across the
Hans-Peter Diettrich drdiettri...@aol.com hat am 29. Februar 2012 um
18:17 geschrieben:
Michael Schnell schrieb:
On 02/29/2012 02:14 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
I don't see a need for combining everything into one help file, be PDF
or CHM.
Not one file but e.g. one multiple-file
Mattias Gaertner schrieb:
search for information (keyword combinations) across the different
files.
I'm not familiar with CHM, don't know how this could be achieved. But I
assume that such a feature should be available already - who knows more?
Google can search in the wiki and
2012/2/29 Marco van de Voort mar...@stack.nl
Usually they are driven by a foundation and/or core team. Much like FPC
nowadays, with occasional alliances with commercial parties that sponsor a
certain development.
There are not many alternative routes.
I was hoping something more concrete
Juha Manninen schrieb:
So, what does the management mean in practice? Should Lazarus be managed
differently from how it is managed now?
IMO it's not so much a matter of management, but of mind shift. The
developers should share more of their knowledge, apart from only writing
code. Until
On 2/29/12 7:35 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Juha Manninen schrieb:
So, what does the management mean in practice? Should Lazarus be
managed differently from how it is managed now?
IMO it's not so much a matter of management, but of mind shift. The
developers should share more of their
On 01/03/2012 00:35, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
Juha Manninen schrieb:
So, what does the management mean in practice? Should Lazarus be
managed differently from how it is managed now?
IMO it's not so much a matter of management, but of mind shift. The
developers should share more of their
I create a new thread because this is not related to the original Why Java
got popular thread...
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
I'll try once more to tell on what i'm refering: project managemant of
the development. All that i have to say about it is in that. Who some day
had
The bug tracker works perfectly for the bugs, i would only suggest to make
a front-end in the IDE in order to make him more visible, or at least by
start a simple link in the help menu of the IDE would be enough. This is a
patch so small and simple that i'm even with shame to do it :p.
2012/2/28
On 2/28/12 2:53 PM, Juha Manninen wrote:
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
mailto:tonvie...@gmail.com
I'll try once more to tell on what i'm refering: project
managemant of the development. All that i have to say about it is
in that. Who some day had worked with
On 28/02/2012 20:04, Rich Saunders wrote:
As a newcomer I would like to see on the web site a team organization
chart. The current contributors would appear in the roles they
currently play. Open positions would be identified with links to pages
where you can find out more about what is
About the documentation i had the idea of make centralized data help that
could generate the off-line as well the on-line help versions. And to
elegantly show the contributor who did the examples and so on.
2012/2/28 Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com
I create a new thread because this is
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
The bug tracker works perfectly for the bugs, i would only suggest to make
a front-end in the IDE in order to make him more visible, or at least by
start a simple link in the help menu of the IDE would be enough. This is a
patch so small and simple
On 2/28/12 2:53 PM, Juha Manninen wrote:
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
mailto:tonvie...@gmail.com
I'll try once more to tell on what i'm refering: project
managemant of the development. All that i have to say about it is
in that. Who some day had worked with
About the project management is something like the bug tracker but not for
bugs. With all that richness that has a project management: projects,
teams, head members, status of it, code already done, code to be
done, ideas about it, discussions on, notes from everyone, and so on.
2012/2/28 Juha
Op 28 februari 2012 21:01 heeft Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
het volgende geschreven:
The bug tracker works perfectly for the bugs, i would only suggest to make a
front-end in the IDE in order to make him more visible, or at least by start
a simple link in the help menu of the IDE would
2012/2/28 Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
It is already there for a long time: Help - Reporting a Bug
Is true, my fall, but the idea of the front-end is still up.
You can perhaps make such front-end yourself as a contribution. :)
It is
Juha Manninen schrieb:
Improving the documentation is now a hot topic. I think more people
should get write access to the doc directory in the repository, if only
there are people willing to take the effort.
IMO this is not a good idea, for several reasons:
I already removed so much crap
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
About the project management is something like the bug tracker but not for
bugs. With all that richness that has a project management: projects,
teams, head members, status of it, code already done, code to be
done, ideas about it, discussions on,
Everton Vieira schrieb:
About the documentation i had the idea of make centralized data help
that could generate the off-line as well the on-line help versions.
What's missing from the current documentation tools?
And
to elegantly show the contributor who did the examples and so on.
From: Hans-Peter Diettrich drdiettri...@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Project management
Everton Vieira schrieb:
And
to elegantly show the contributor who did the examples and so on.
Right, sometimes it would be nice to know whom to ask specific questions.
DoDi
As much as I would
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
About the documentation i had the idea of make centralized data help that
could generate the off-line as well the on-line help versions. And to
elegantly show the contributor who did the examples and so on.
Again, you clearly have not studied the
Em 28/02/2012, às 21:13, Juha Manninen escreveu:
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
About the documentation i had the idea of make centralized data help that
could generate the off-line as well the on-line help versions. And to
elegantly show the contributor who did the examples
2012/2/28 Rich Saunders saunders.richar...@gmail.com
Another idea is for someone to summarize a lengthy exchange in a mailing
list. The summary would be something along the lines of: The idea of X has
been brought up and discussed at length. There appear to be 3 options for
moving forward. A
2012/2/29 John Repucci john.repu...@gmail.com
As much as I would like to get answers directly (and promptly) from the
source experts, I would prefer that the developers be allowed to focus on
development (if that is their passion). I would rather have a set of SMEs
(subject matter experts)
Em 28/02/2012, às 19:02, Juha Manninen escreveu:
2012/2/28 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
About the project management is something like the bug tracker but not for
bugs. With all that richness that has a project management: projects, teams,
head members, status of it, code already
On 2/28/12 7:22 PM, Juha Manninen wrote:
2012/2/28 Rich Saunders saunders.richar...@gmail.com
mailto:saunders.richar...@gmail.com
Another idea is for someone to summarize a lengthy exchange in a
mailing list. The summary would be something along the lines of:
The idea of X has
John Repucci schrieb:
As much as I would like to get answers directly (and promptly) from the
source experts, I would prefer that the developers be allowed to focus
on development (if that is their passion).
In a perfect world the specificiation preceeds the implementation :-]
What's so
On 2/28/12 7:28 PM, Juha Manninen wrote:
2012/2/29 John Repucci john.repu...@gmail.com
mailto:john.repu...@gmail.com
As much as I would like to get answers directly (and promptly)
from the source experts, I would prefer that the developers be
allowed to focus on development (if
2012/2/29 Rich Saunders saunders.richar...@gmail.com
Of course, the core developers would not be expected to do it unless they
chose to. I see it as a project management task.
Who is the project manager then? I have tried to explain in my mails that
you guys don't understand the reality here.
On 2/28/12 8:52 PM, Juha Manninen wrote:
2012/2/29 Rich Saunders saunders.richar...@gmail.com
mailto:saunders.richar...@gmail.com
Of course, the core developers would not be expected to do it
unless they chose to. I see it as a project management task.
Who is the project manager
2012/2/29 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
Em 28/02/2012, às 19:02, Juha Manninen escreveu:
It may also be an illusion from your side that contributing code to a big
project becomes easy if only there was a project manager with a nice list
of tasks.
I think it would be easy with more
Em 28/02/2012, às 23:25, Juha Manninen escreveu:
2012/2/29 Everton Vieira tonvie...@gmail.com
Em 28/02/2012, às 19:02, Juha Manninen escreveu:
It may also be an illusion from your side that contributing code to a big
project becomes easy if only there was a project manager with a nice list
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