[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Ellis]

Tim, Eric,

@Tim:
> everyone has to start
> somewhere and saying Lift is only appropriate for hardcore programmers
> because its a new framework is wrong IMHO.

Compared to certain other starting points, there are a lot of extra
hurdles to overcome if you're going to attempt lift as your intro to
programming.  For example, contrasted to a simple non-lift project,
the person would have to become familiar with:
- maven
- command line
- many "advanced" aspects of scala
- deal with less reliable IDE tools and sometimes forgo their benefits
entirely

A new programmer shouldn't try to deal with more than one of those at
a time, or he'll get stuck on lots of fruitless problems (sometimes
for days), and likely have to go back to a simpler environment
anyway.  It's better to start programming by: 1) *programming* rather
than learning tools, and 2) having the full support of an IDE.

@Eric:
I'd also echo the sentiment which has already been expressed here a
few times: just start working with code and don't worry about getting
the architecture right.

Architecture is a medium-to-advanced topic, btw, that requires you to
judge the value of choosing among multi-factored tradeoffs.  That kind
of knowledge mostly comes from *experience* with all the patterns in
various contexts.

Best regards,
Ellis


On Jul 6, 12:17 pm, Timothy Perrett  wrote:
> Ellis,
>
> Im afraid I disagree with you - Eric does not state what type of
> "eComerce" application he wants to create... IMO, this is very
> subjective. Lift ships out of the box with PayPal integration - one
> could say that a site which allows a user to pay via paypal is
> eCommerce... would you disagree?
>
> If Eric takes on advice from the Lift Book and perhaps a learning
> scala book like DPP's, then asks lift related questions on here when
> he needs specific help im sure he'll be fine... everyone has to start
> somewhere and saying Lift is only appropriate for hardcore programmers
> because its a new framework is wrong IMHO.
>
> Eric, good luck to you - the lift community is a great place to start
> your programming endeavors; you probably have a slightly steeper
> learning curve than most, but provided you have grit and determination
> there is nothing to say you will not reach your goals. Think
> positive.
>
> Cheers, Tim
>
> On Jul 6, 10:13 am, Ellis  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Eric,
>
> > Here are a few comments and suggestions.
>
> > - Honestly, I don't think that lift and scala are the right places for
> > you to start out.  The systems are very powerful, but relatively new,
> > and so they are still geared towards more experienced programmers.
> > - You'll need more than a month to become comfortable with an entirely
> > new programming environment.
> > - The java toolset can be confusing.  Try NetBeans; it's easier to
> > understand than Eclipse.
> > - An e-commerce program would take years to get right, but if that's
> > what inspires you, you might want to focus on just small parts of such
> > a program instead.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Ellis
>
> > On Jul 6, 5:13 am, eric cs  wrote:
>
> > > Hi guys,
>
> > > I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
> > > wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
> > > with Scala/Lift.
> > > My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
> > > to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
> > > Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
> > > head to think like a programer.
> > > I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
> > > that to a full application, how to link everything together,
> > > classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
> > > everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
> > > practice.
> > > I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more if
> > > necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out.
> > > What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from scratch
> > > without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. If it's
> > > not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you tell me
> > > learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of experience in
> > > Java to jump in in Scala? I know it helps but I would like to finish
> > > my first e-commerce in august, 100% opensource in Scala if possible.
>
> > > P.s:I did 2 years of Computer Science C++ and 2 years of Civil
> > > Engineering over 12 years ago both unfinished.

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[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[David Pollak]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Wilson MacGyver wrote:

>
> Wouldn't Ch6 on actors be useful too?


Not for getting to the To Do app.  In this case, I think less is more...
learn enough Scala to understand how to do basic Lift stuff.  Get success
with building a Lift app.  Go back to Chapter 6, learn Actors.  Go back to
Lift and do Comet stuff.  Do victory dance.


> But yea, Ch7 would be too much.
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:59 PM, David
> Pollak wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Wilson MacGyver 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I would like to suggest David's "Beginning Scala" book. It's written
> >> for new comer. And has lots of examples that you can play with
> >> using Scala's REPL.
> >
> > Heh... you beat me to the suggestion... ;-)
> >
> > Chapters 2-5 of Beginning Scala should give you some grounding in Scala
> > syntax and how to do cool things with Scala.  Whatever you do, stay away
> > from Chapter 7... it's a big nasty scary thing and is not needed for the
> > kind of code you're writing.
> >
> > Once you get through BegSca 2-5, go on to
> > http://liftweb.net/docs/getting_started.html  There may be gaps between
> the
> > two, but if you point out the gaps, we'll fill them in both online and in
> > the Getting Started document.
> >
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, eric cs wrote:
> >> >
> >> > David, awesome ideas you got there,thanks, about posting my
> >> > improvements and stuff, pretty unique really and it will helps for
> >> > future programers as well specially coming raw into Scala.
> >> > I totally agree with you, maybe Scala is too much for a new guy who
> >> > doesn't know some basic and advanced concepts or doesn't know how to
> >> > put everything together?
> >> > Totally agree there, but please tell a way, a book who will teach that
> >> > foundation that has some examples in practice as well.
> >> > I could install Scala do all that you mention but I don't know where
> >> > to go from there which itens/classes/objects should I add to start
> >> > building a app from scratch.
> >> > I am looking for some book right now, like Code Complete 2,Clean Code:
> >> > A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship.
> >> > I know what a method/function is what it does, I know what a class is,
> >> > an Interface,Object,inheritance, but I can't put everything together
> >> > yet, I know some of the theory and concepts, I think I need a good
> >> > book that teaches how o put everything together.
> >> > If you guys know some...please let me know.
> >> > What's more, after that I will need to learn why scala is so
> >> > diferent,powerfull,improved from Java or Ruby in concepts,theory,way
> >> > to program and do things, in case you know a book about that too would
> >> > be awesome.
> >> >
> >> > Is like a person who know what a cement is, water,tools, but doesn't
> >> > know how to construct something, with pavers some people knows what it
> >> > is but doesn't know how to pave and how some paver patterns with help
> >> > with that, he can just put random pavers on the ground because is
> >> > gonna be a mess, same thing with coding I think..hehe
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > On Jul 6, 12:00 pm, Wilson MacGyver  wrote:
> >> >> I would echo David's comment. Scala is a powerful language with high
> >> >> complexity budget. I think it's important to learn the fundamentals
> of
> >> >> Scala first and build on top of it.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, David
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Pollak wrote:
> >> >> > Eric,
> >> >>
> >> >> > It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail at marathon
> >> >> > speeds.
> >> >> > I'm not sure it can be done.  It took me 18 months with Scala
> before
> >> >> > I felt
> >> >> > comfortable with it and my learning curve with new languages is
> >> >> > pretty good
> >> >> > (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3 months before I
> >> >> > felt
> >> >> > that I had mastered it.)  I do not yet consider myself a Scala
> guru,
> >> >> > although I consider myself very skilled with it.
> >> >>
> >> >> > All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that
> your
> >> >> > goal of
> >> >> > understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one
> >> >> > that I'd
> >> >> > recommend.
> >> >>
> >> >> > I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for
> >> >> > you.
> >> >> > Perhaps the following order might be a starting place:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive
> >> >> > interpreter.)  This will give you a good feeling of what can be
> done
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > Scala.  See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps
> >> >> > assisted by
> >> >> > Beginning Scala.)
> >> >> > Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app:
> >> >> >http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp(1to
> >> >> > 2
> >> >

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Wilson MacGyver]

Wouldn't Ch6 on actors be useful too? But yea, Ch7 would be too much.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:59 PM, David
Pollak wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Wilson MacGyver 
> wrote:
>>
>> I would like to suggest David's "Beginning Scala" book. It's written
>> for new comer. And has lots of examples that you can play with
>> using Scala's REPL.
>
> Heh... you beat me to the suggestion... ;-)
>
> Chapters 2-5 of Beginning Scala should give you some grounding in Scala
> syntax and how to do cool things with Scala.  Whatever you do, stay away
> from Chapter 7... it's a big nasty scary thing and is not needed for the
> kind of code you're writing.
>
> Once you get through BegSca 2-5, go on to
> http://liftweb.net/docs/getting_started.html  There may be gaps between the
> two, but if you point out the gaps, we'll fill them in both online and in
> the Getting Started document.
>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, eric cs wrote:
>> >
>> > David, awesome ideas you got there,thanks, about posting my
>> > improvements and stuff, pretty unique really and it will helps for
>> > future programers as well specially coming raw into Scala.
>> > I totally agree with you, maybe Scala is too much for a new guy who
>> > doesn't know some basic and advanced concepts or doesn't know how to
>> > put everything together?
>> > Totally agree there, but please tell a way, a book who will teach that
>> > foundation that has some examples in practice as well.
>> > I could install Scala do all that you mention but I don't know where
>> > to go from there which itens/classes/objects should I add to start
>> > building a app from scratch.
>> > I am looking for some book right now, like Code Complete 2,Clean Code:
>> > A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship.
>> > I know what a method/function is what it does, I know what a class is,
>> > an Interface,Object,inheritance, but I can't put everything together
>> > yet, I know some of the theory and concepts, I think I need a good
>> > book that teaches how o put everything together.
>> > If you guys know some...please let me know.
>> > What's more, after that I will need to learn why scala is so
>> > diferent,powerfull,improved from Java or Ruby in concepts,theory,way
>> > to program and do things, in case you know a book about that too would
>> > be awesome.
>> >
>> > Is like a person who know what a cement is, water,tools, but doesn't
>> > know how to construct something, with pavers some people knows what it
>> > is but doesn't know how to pave and how some paver patterns with help
>> > with that, he can just put random pavers on the ground because is
>> > gonna be a mess, same thing with coding I think..hehe
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > On Jul 6, 12:00 pm, Wilson MacGyver  wrote:
>> >> I would echo David's comment. Scala is a powerful language with high
>> >> complexity budget. I think it's important to learn the fundamentals of
>> >> Scala first and build on top of it.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, David
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Pollak wrote:
>> >> > Eric,
>> >>
>> >> > It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail at marathon
>> >> > speeds.
>> >> > I'm not sure it can be done.  It took me 18 months with Scala before
>> >> > I felt
>> >> > comfortable with it and my learning curve with new languages is
>> >> > pretty good
>> >> > (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3 months before I
>> >> > felt
>> >> > that I had mastered it.)  I do not yet consider myself a Scala guru,
>> >> > although I consider myself very skilled with it.
>> >>
>> >> > All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that your
>> >> > goal of
>> >> > understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one
>> >> > that I'd
>> >> > recommend.
>> >>
>> >> > I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for
>> >> > you.
>> >> > Perhaps the following order might be a starting place:
>> >>
>> >> > Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive
>> >> > interpreter.)  This will give you a good feeling of what can be done
>> >> > with
>> >> > Scala.  See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps
>> >> > assisted by
>> >> > Beginning Scala.)
>> >> > Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app:
>> >> >http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp(1 to 2
>> >> > days... also use a normal text editor, not an IDE... installing IDEs
>> >> > can be
>> >> > a rats nest of problems... TextMate for the Mac is the best choice,
>> >> > but vi
>> >> > or emacs are also good if you already know them.)
>> >> > Run through the ToDo example in Lift (5 or 6 days)
>> >>
>> >> > By this point, you should have a bucket full of questions.  Ask
>> >> > them.  Ask
>> >> > them as your going.  Ask them when you get to breaking points.
>> >>
>> >> > As you're spending your two weeks touring through Scala and Lift,
>> >> > start
>> >> > thinking about what you want to build.  Think from the U

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[David Pollak]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Wilson MacGyver wrote:

>
> I would like to suggest David's "Beginning Scala" book. It's written
> for new comer. And has lots of examples that you can play with
> using Scala's REPL.


Heh... you beat me to the suggestion... ;-)

Chapters 2-5 of *Beginning Scala* should give you some grounding in Scala
syntax and how to do cool things with Scala.  Whatever you do, stay away
from Chapter 7... it's a big nasty scary thing and is not needed for the
kind of code you're writing.

Once you get through BegSca 2-5, go on to
http://liftweb.net/docs/getting_started.html  There may be gaps between the
two, but if you point out the gaps, we'll fill them in both online and in
the Getting Started document.


>
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, eric cs wrote:
> >
> > David, awesome ideas you got there,thanks, about posting my
> > improvements and stuff, pretty unique really and it will helps for
> > future programers as well specially coming raw into Scala.
> > I totally agree with you, maybe Scala is too much for a new guy who
> > doesn't know some basic and advanced concepts or doesn't know how to
> > put everything together?
> > Totally agree there, but please tell a way, a book who will teach that
> > foundation that has some examples in practice as well.
> > I could install Scala do all that you mention but I don't know where
> > to go from there which itens/classes/objects should I add to start
> > building a app from scratch.
> > I am looking for some book right now, like Code Complete 2,Clean Code:
> > A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship.
> > I know what a method/function is what it does, I know what a class is,
> > an Interface,Object,inheritance, but I can't put everything together
> > yet, I know some of the theory and concepts, I think I need a good
> > book that teaches how o put everything together.
> > If you guys know some...please let me know.
> > What's more, after that I will need to learn why scala is so
> > diferent,powerfull,improved from Java or Ruby in concepts,theory,way
> > to program and do things, in case you know a book about that too would
> > be awesome.
> >
> > Is like a person who know what a cement is, water,tools, but doesn't
> > know how to construct something, with pavers some people knows what it
> > is but doesn't know how to pave and how some paver patterns with help
> > with that, he can just put random pavers on the ground because is
> > gonna be a mess, same thing with coding I think..hehe
> > Thanks.
> >
> > On Jul 6, 12:00 pm, Wilson MacGyver  wrote:
> >> I would echo David's comment. Scala is a powerful language with high
> >> complexity budget. I think it's important to learn the fundamentals of
> >> Scala first and build on top of it.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, David
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Pollak wrote:
> >> > Eric,
> >>
> >> > It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail at marathon
> speeds.
> >> > I'm not sure it can be done.  It took me 18 months with Scala before I
> felt
> >> > comfortable with it and my learning curve with new languages is pretty
> good
> >> > (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3 months before I
> felt
> >> > that I had mastered it.)  I do not yet consider myself a Scala guru,
> >> > although I consider myself very skilled with it.
> >>
> >> > All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that your
> goal of
> >> > understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one
> that I'd
> >> > recommend.
> >>
> >> > I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for
> you.
> >> > Perhaps the following order might be a starting place:
> >>
> >> > Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive
> >> > interpreter.)  This will give you a good feeling of what can be done
> with
> >> > Scala.  See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps
> assisted by
> >> > Beginning Scala.)
> >> > Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app:
> >> >http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp(1to
> >> > 2
> >> > days... also use a normal text editor, not an IDE... installing IDEs
> can be
> >> > a rats nest of problems... TextMate for the Mac is the best choice,
> but vi
> >> > or emacs are also good if you already know them.)
> >> > Run through the ToDo example in Lift (5 or 6 days)
> >>
> >> > By this point, you should have a bucket full of questions.  Ask them.
> Ask
> >> > them as your going.  Ask them when you get to breaking points.
> >>
> >> > As you're spending your two weeks touring through Scala and Lift,
> start
> >> > thinking about what you want to build.  Think from the UI back (that
> tends
> >> > to be the easiest for most people... then think about how to interact
> with
> >> > something and then go backward from it.)  Scala allows for better
> >> > "composition" of application (using smaller parts

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Wilson MacGyver]

I would like to suggest David's "Beginning Scala" book. It's written
for new comer. And has lots of examples that you can play with
using Scala's REPL.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, eric cs wrote:
>
> David, awesome ideas you got there,thanks, about posting my
> improvements and stuff, pretty unique really and it will helps for
> future programers as well specially coming raw into Scala.
> I totally agree with you, maybe Scala is too much for a new guy who
> doesn't know some basic and advanced concepts or doesn't know how to
> put everything together?
> Totally agree there, but please tell a way, a book who will teach that
> foundation that has some examples in practice as well.
> I could install Scala do all that you mention but I don't know where
> to go from there which itens/classes/objects should I add to start
> building a app from scratch.
> I am looking for some book right now, like Code Complete 2,Clean Code:
> A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship.
> I know what a method/function is what it does, I know what a class is,
> an Interface,Object,inheritance, but I can't put everything together
> yet, I know some of the theory and concepts, I think I need a good
> book that teaches how o put everything together.
> If you guys know some...please let me know.
> What's more, after that I will need to learn why scala is so
> diferent,powerfull,improved from Java or Ruby in concepts,theory,way
> to program and do things, in case you know a book about that too would
> be awesome.
>
> Is like a person who know what a cement is, water,tools, but doesn't
> know how to construct something, with pavers some people knows what it
> is but doesn't know how to pave and how some paver patterns with help
> with that, he can just put random pavers on the ground because is
> gonna be a mess, same thing with coding I think..hehe
> Thanks.
>
> On Jul 6, 12:00 pm, Wilson MacGyver  wrote:
>> I would echo David's comment. Scala is a powerful language with high
>> complexity budget. I think it's important to learn the fundamentals of
>> Scala first and build on top of it.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pollak wrote:
>> > Eric,
>>
>> > It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail at marathon speeds.
>> > I'm not sure it can be done.  It took me 18 months with Scala before I felt
>> > comfortable with it and my learning curve with new languages is pretty good
>> > (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3 months before I felt
>> > that I had mastered it.)  I do not yet consider myself a Scala guru,
>> > although I consider myself very skilled with it.
>>
>> > All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that your goal 
>> > of
>> > understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one that 
>> > I'd
>> > recommend.
>>
>> > I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for you.
>> > Perhaps the following order might be a starting place:
>>
>> > Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive
>> > interpreter.)  This will give you a good feeling of what can be done with
>> > Scala.  See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps assisted 
>> > by
>> > Beginning Scala.)
>> > Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app:
>> >http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp(1 to 2
>> > days... also use a normal text editor, not an IDE... installing IDEs can be
>> > a rats nest of problems... TextMate for the Mac is the best choice, but vi
>> > or emacs are also good if you already know them.)
>> > Run through the ToDo example in Lift (5 or 6 days)
>>
>> > By this point, you should have a bucket full of questions.  Ask them.  Ask
>> > them as your going.  Ask them when you get to breaking points.
>>
>> > As you're spending your two weeks touring through Scala and Lift, start
>> > thinking about what you want to build.  Think from the UI back (that tends
>> > to be the easiest for most people... then think about how to interact with
>> > something and then go backward from it.)  Scala allows for better
>> > "composition" of application (using smaller parts to make bigger
>> > functionality rather than thinking about gross level object abstractions).
>> > So, draw your UI on a piece of paper and then start writing down what 
>> > pieces
>> > each UI component needs.  You should be able to build a simple, piece by
>> > piece screen that does what you want it to.  Once you've got it working,
>> > think about how to combine and normalize pieces of functionality.
>>
>> > As always, we're here for you.  The Lift community will help you, but we 
>> > ask
>> > that you document your learning (perhaps via blog or wiki or Twitter) so
>> > others have the benefit of the work you've done.
>>
>> > Thanks,
>>
>> > David
>>
>> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:14 AM, eric cs  wrote:
>>
>> >> Guys,
>> >> Thank you very much for all your answers.
>> >> Having a community like that, I know is ha

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[eric cs]

David, awesome ideas you got there,thanks, about posting my
improvements and stuff, pretty unique really and it will helps for
future programers as well specially coming raw into Scala.
I totally agree with you, maybe Scala is too much for a new guy who
doesn't know some basic and advanced concepts or doesn't know how to
put everything together?
Totally agree there, but please tell a way, a book who will teach that
foundation that has some examples in practice as well.
I could install Scala do all that you mention but I don't know where
to go from there which itens/classes/objects should I add to start
building a app from scratch.
I am looking for some book right now, like Code Complete 2,Clean Code:
A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship.
I know what a method/function is what it does, I know what a class is,
an Interface,Object,inheritance, but I can't put everything together
yet, I know some of the theory and concepts, I think I need a good
book that teaches how o put everything together.
If you guys know some...please let me know.
What's more, after that I will need to learn why scala is so
diferent,powerfull,improved from Java or Ruby in concepts,theory,way
to program and do things, in case you know a book about that too would
be awesome.

Is like a person who know what a cement is, water,tools, but doesn't
know how to construct something, with pavers some people knows what it
is but doesn't know how to pave and how some paver patterns with help
with that, he can just put random pavers on the ground because is
gonna be a mess, same thing with coding I think..hehe
Thanks.

On Jul 6, 12:00 pm, Wilson MacGyver  wrote:
> I would echo David's comment. Scala is a powerful language with high
> complexity budget. I think it's important to learn the fundamentals of
> Scala first and build on top of it.
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, David
>
>
>
>
>
> Pollak wrote:
> > Eric,
>
> > It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail at marathon speeds.
> > I'm not sure it can be done.  It took me 18 months with Scala before I felt
> > comfortable with it and my learning curve with new languages is pretty good
> > (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3 months before I felt
> > that I had mastered it.)  I do not yet consider myself a Scala guru,
> > although I consider myself very skilled with it.
>
> > All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that your goal of
> > understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one that I'd
> > recommend.
>
> > I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for you.
> > Perhaps the following order might be a starting place:
>
> > Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive
> > interpreter.)  This will give you a good feeling of what can be done with
> > Scala.  See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps assisted by
> > Beginning Scala.)
> > Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app:
> >http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp(1 to 2
> > days... also use a normal text editor, not an IDE... installing IDEs can be
> > a rats nest of problems... TextMate for the Mac is the best choice, but vi
> > or emacs are also good if you already know them.)
> > Run through the ToDo example in Lift (5 or 6 days)
>
> > By this point, you should have a bucket full of questions.  Ask them.  Ask
> > them as your going.  Ask them when you get to breaking points.
>
> > As you're spending your two weeks touring through Scala and Lift, start
> > thinking about what you want to build.  Think from the UI back (that tends
> > to be the easiest for most people... then think about how to interact with
> > something and then go backward from it.)  Scala allows for better
> > "composition" of application (using smaller parts to make bigger
> > functionality rather than thinking about gross level object abstractions).
> > So, draw your UI on a piece of paper and then start writing down what pieces
> > each UI component needs.  You should be able to build a simple, piece by
> > piece screen that does what you want it to.  Once you've got it working,
> > think about how to combine and normalize pieces of functionality.
>
> > As always, we're here for you.  The Lift community will help you, but we ask
> > that you document your learning (perhaps via blog or wiki or Twitter) so
> > others have the benefit of the work you've done.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > David
>
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:14 AM, eric cs  wrote:
>
> >> Guys,
> >> Thank you very much for all your answers.
> >> Having a community like that, I know is half way there for anyone.
> >> I am very very very eager to learn, that's my number one priorite
> >> right now and the e-commerce is an example to work with some real
> >> application and apply logic and a database to learn how put the
> >> classes together.
> >> It's not a hobbie I found another passion in my life besides my wife,
> >> my dog, my music a

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Wilson MacGyver]

I would echo David's comment. Scala is a powerful language with high
complexity budget. I think it's important to learn the fundamentals of
Scala first and build on top of it.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, David
Pollak wrote:
> Eric,
>
> It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail at marathon speeds.
> I'm not sure it can be done.  It took me 18 months with Scala before I felt
> comfortable with it and my learning curve with new languages is pretty good
> (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3 months before I felt
> that I had mastered it.)  I do not yet consider myself a Scala guru,
> although I consider myself very skilled with it.
>
> All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that your goal of
> understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one that I'd
> recommend.
>
> I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for you.
> Perhaps the following order might be a starting place:
>
> Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive
> interpreter.)  This will give you a good feeling of what can be done with
> Scala.  See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps assisted by
> Beginning Scala.)
> Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app:
> http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp (1 to 2
> days... also use a normal text editor, not an IDE... installing IDEs can be
> a rats nest of problems... TextMate for the Mac is the best choice, but vi
> or emacs are also good if you already know them.)
> Run through the ToDo example in Lift (5 or 6 days)
>
> By this point, you should have a bucket full of questions.  Ask them.  Ask
> them as your going.  Ask them when you get to breaking points.
>
> As you're spending your two weeks touring through Scala and Lift, start
> thinking about what you want to build.  Think from the UI back (that tends
> to be the easiest for most people... then think about how to interact with
> something and then go backward from it.)  Scala allows for better
> "composition" of application (using smaller parts to make bigger
> functionality rather than thinking about gross level object abstractions).
> So, draw your UI on a piece of paper and then start writing down what pieces
> each UI component needs.  You should be able to build a simple, piece by
> piece screen that does what you want it to.  Once you've got it working,
> think about how to combine and normalize pieces of functionality.
>
> As always, we're here for you.  The Lift community will help you, but we ask
> that you document your learning (perhaps via blog or wiki or Twitter) so
> others have the benefit of the work you've done.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:14 AM, eric cs  wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>> Thank you very much for all your answers.
>> Having a community like that, I know is half way there for anyone.
>> I am very very very eager to learn, that's my number one priorite
>> right now and the e-commerce is an example to work with some real
>> application and apply logic and a database to learn how put the
>> classes together.
>> It's not a hobbie I found another passion in my life besides my wife,
>> my dog, my music and it's web programming.
>> I like it all since css,ajax to actionscript to back side languages
>> and the logic behind it.That's why I quit Civil Engineering and move
>> to Computer Science years ago, but some stuff happens yada,yada.yada,
>> here I am several years later trying to learn again.
>> I feel better and more prepared than before and without distractions.
>> I said a month but I have all the time in my hands right now so it
>> could be until 2010 if necessary, full time. I wish I could work doing
>> something like this sometime.
>> Before I even learn scala, I have to get the logic how to create an
>> app first in my head, like which items would an object and they will
>> related to each other then to a database,it's not about create a
>> simple program only,abstract,it's about how to put all little
>> programns together to create something, in this case could be an e-
>> commerce.Then I could learn the advanced concepts of Scala, functional
>> programming and stuff like that.
>> Maybe an e-commerce has a lot of logic involved is a good start to get
>> my head around programming web apps with that example.
>> I don't know if you guys understand what I meant,what I need to learn
>> first, but even a book that explains that would be good, I read some
>> books about design patterns and stuff but none of them applied in a
>> real application.
>> It's not even regular regular programming logic, I need to learn like
>> how a put a app in a modular way, one thing on top of eachother, I
>> don't know it that's the way to think about that, how classes will
>> interact with eachother,Interfaces.
>> Anyway, keep your advices coming and in case you know a book that
>> explains that would be awesome.
>> Thanks again.
>>
>>
>>
>> wat
>> On

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[David Pollak]

Eric,

It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail
at
marathon speeds.  I'm not sure it can be done.  It took me 18 months with
Scala before I felt comfortable with it and my learning curve with new
languages is pretty good (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3
months before I felt that I had mastered it.)  I do not yet consider myself
a Scala guru, although I consider myself very skilled with it.

All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that your goal of
understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one that I'd
recommend.

I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for you.
Perhaps the following order might be a starting place:

   - Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive
   interpreter.)  This will give you a good feeling of what can be done with
   Scala.  See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps assisted by
   *Beginning Scala*.)
   - Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app:
   http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp (1 to 2
   days... also use a normal text editor, not an IDE... installing IDEs can be
   a rats nest of problems... TextMate for the Mac is the best choice, but vi
   or emacs are also good if you already know them.)
   - Run through the ToDo example in Lift (5 or 6 days)

By this point, you should have a bucket full of questions.  Ask them.  Ask
them as your going.  Ask them when you get to breaking points.

As you're spending your two weeks touring through Scala and Lift, start
thinking about what you want to build.  Think from the UI back (that tends
to be the easiest for most people... then think about how to interact with
something and then go backward from it.)  Scala allows for better
"composition" of application (using smaller parts to make bigger
functionality rather than thinking about gross level object abstractions).
So, draw your UI on a piece of paper and then start writing down what pieces
each UI component needs.  You should be able to build a simple, piece by
piece screen that does what you want it to.  Once you've got it working,
think about how to combine and normalize pieces of functionality.

As always, we're here for you.  The Lift community will help you, but we ask
that you document your learning (perhaps via blog or wiki or Twitter) so
others have the benefit of the work you've done.

Thanks,

David

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:14 AM, eric cs  wrote:

>
> Guys,
> Thank you very much for all your answers.
> Having a community like that, I know is half way there for anyone.
> I am very very very eager to learn, that's my number one priorite
> right now and the e-commerce is an example to work with some real
> application and apply logic and a database to learn how put the
> classes together.
> It's not a hobbie I found another passion in my life besides my wife,
> my dog, my music and it's web programming.
> I like it all since css,ajax to actionscript to back side languages
> and the logic behind it.That's why I quit Civil Engineering and move
> to Computer Science years ago, but some stuff happens yada,yada.yada,
> here I am several years later trying to learn again.
> I feel better and more prepared than before and without distractions.
> I said a month but I have all the time in my hands right now so it
> could be until 2010 if necessary, full time. I wish I could work doing
> something like this sometime.
> Before I even learn scala, I have to get the logic how to create an
> app first in my head, like which items would an object and they will
> related to each other then to a database,it's not about create a
> simple program only,abstract,it's about how to put all little
> programns together to create something, in this case could be an e-
> commerce.Then I could learn the advanced concepts of Scala, functional
> programming and stuff like that.
> Maybe an e-commerce has a lot of logic involved is a good start to get
> my head around programming web apps with that example.
> I don't know if you guys understand what I meant,what I need to learn
> first, but even a book that explains that would be good, I read some
> books about design patterns and stuff but none of them applied in a
> real application.
> It's not even regular regular programming logic, I need to learn like
> how a put a app in a modular way, one thing on top of eachother, I
> don't know it that's the way to think about that, how classes will
> interact with eachother,Interfaces.
> Anyway, keep your advices coming and in case you know a book that
> explains that would be awesome.
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> wat
> On Jul 6, 6:01 am, Eric Bowman  wrote:
> > To this I would add:
> >
> > The way to learn to program, is to program.  It takes a lot of time, and
> > a lot of hard work.  Reading books is good, and necessary, but it's not
> > enough.
> >
> > Also, L

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[yiguang hu]

The tutorials on liftweb website is a good starting point.
The definite guide liftweb book is a good resource if you need something
that is more thorough and organized.
Online presentations is a quick way to get start and learn the concept.



On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:14 AM, eric cs  wrote:

>
> Guys,
> Thank you very much for all your answers.
> Having a community like that, I know is half way there for anyone.
> I am very very very eager to learn, that's my number one priorite
> right now and the e-commerce is an example to work with some real
> application and apply logic and a database to learn how put the
> classes together.
> It's not a hobbie I found another passion in my life besides my wife,
> my dog, my music and it's web programming.
> I like it all since css,ajax to actionscript to back side languages
> and the logic behind it.That's why I quit Civil Engineering and move
> to Computer Science years ago, but some stuff happens yada,yada.yada,
> here I am several years later trying to learn again.
> I feel better and more prepared than before and without distractions.
> I said a month but I have all the time in my hands right now so it
> could be until 2010 if necessary, full time. I wish I could work doing
> something like this sometime.
> Before I even learn scala, I have to get the logic how to create an
> app first in my head, like which items would an object and they will
> related to each other then to a database,it's not about create a
> simple program only,abstract,it's about how to put all little
> programns together to create something, in this case could be an e-
> commerce.Then I could learn the advanced concepts of Scala, functional
> programming and stuff like that.
> Maybe an e-commerce has a lot of logic involved is a good start to get
> my head around programming web apps with that example.
> I don't know if you guys understand what I meant,what I need to learn
> first, but even a book that explains that would be good, I read some
> books about design patterns and stuff but none of them applied in a
> real application.
> It's not even regular regular programming logic, I need to learn like
> how a put a app in a modular way, one thing on top of eachother, I
> don't know it that's the way to think about that, how classes will
> interact with eachother,Interfaces.
> Anyway, keep your advices coming and in case you know a book that
> explains that would be awesome.
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> wat
> On Jul 6, 6:01 am, Eric Bowman  wrote:
> > To this I would add:
> >
> > The way to learn to program, is to program.  It takes a lot of time, and
> > a lot of hard work.  Reading books is good, and necessary, but it's not
> > enough.
> >
> > Also, Lift really uses Scala to the max, so if you only have 30 days, I
> > would plan to spend the first half just becoming good at Scala.  Which
> > will take longer than 15 days!
> >
> > Anyhow, being a "guru" is a life ambition.  It takes time, time, time
> > and more time.  All your time.  A history of "unfinished" is going to
> > work against you -- this will take serious dedication and
> stick-to-it-ness.
> >
> > An insightful view from Google's Director of Research:
> http://norvig.com/21-days.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Naftoli Gugenhem wrote:
> > > I would say that the main advantage knowledge of Java over a similar
> language gives you is knowledge of the Java environment and system, but you
> can pick that up via scala too.
> > > As far as turning theory into actual programming, my personal advice is
> to take one small sample, get it running, and then ask yourself questions
> like "Why does it do this?" and "What if I change this." Once you have a
> thorough understanding of how the sample accomplishes what it was supposed
> to accomplish, and how all the parts contribute to that, repeat with another
> one. Along the way ask yourself, "What if I want the computer to do xyz
> (similar to sample x)?" Also, play around in the interpreter trying
> different permutations.
> > > Of course, it goes without saying to read the books and articles, not
> to mention to ask all your questions on the scala-user list.
> > > Enjoy!
> >
> > > -
> > > eric cs wrote:
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> >
> > > I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
> > > wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
> > > with Scala/Lift.
> > > My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
> > > to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
> > > Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
> > > head to think like a programer.
> > > I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
> > > that to a full application, how to link everything together,
> > > classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
> > > everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
> > > practice.
> > > I

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[eric cs]

Guys,
Thank you very much for all your answers.
Having a community like that, I know is half way there for anyone.
I am very very very eager to learn, that's my number one priorite
right now and the e-commerce is an example to work with some real
application and apply logic and a database to learn how put the
classes together.
It's not a hobbie I found another passion in my life besides my wife,
my dog, my music and it's web programming.
I like it all since css,ajax to actionscript to back side languages
and the logic behind it.That's why I quit Civil Engineering and move
to Computer Science years ago, but some stuff happens yada,yada.yada,
here I am several years later trying to learn again.
I feel better and more prepared than before and without distractions.
I said a month but I have all the time in my hands right now so it
could be until 2010 if necessary, full time. I wish I could work doing
something like this sometime.
Before I even learn scala, I have to get the logic how to create an
app first in my head, like which items would an object and they will
related to each other then to a database,it's not about create a
simple program only,abstract,it's about how to put all little
programns together to create something, in this case could be an e-
commerce.Then I could learn the advanced concepts of Scala, functional
programming and stuff like that.
Maybe an e-commerce has a lot of logic involved is a good start to get
my head around programming web apps with that example.
I don't know if you guys understand what I meant,what I need to learn
first, but even a book that explains that would be good, I read some
books about design patterns and stuff but none of them applied in a
real application.
It's not even regular regular programming logic, I need to learn like
how a put a app in a modular way, one thing on top of eachother, I
don't know it that's the way to think about that, how classes will
interact with eachother,Interfaces.
Anyway, keep your advices coming and in case you know a book that
explains that would be awesome.
Thanks again.



wat
On Jul 6, 6:01 am, Eric Bowman  wrote:
> To this I would add:
>
> The way to learn to program, is to program.  It takes a lot of time, and
> a lot of hard work.  Reading books is good, and necessary, but it's not
> enough.
>
> Also, Lift really uses Scala to the max, so if you only have 30 days, I
> would plan to spend the first half just becoming good at Scala.  Which
> will take longer than 15 days!
>
> Anyhow, being a "guru" is a life ambition.  It takes time, time, time
> and more time.  All your time.  A history of "unfinished" is going to
> work against you -- this will take serious dedication and stick-to-it-ness.
>
> An insightful view from Google's Director of 
> Research:http://norvig.com/21-days.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Naftoli Gugenhem wrote:
> > I would say that the main advantage knowledge of Java over a similar 
> > language gives you is knowledge of the Java environment and system, but you 
> > can pick that up via scala too.
> > As far as turning theory into actual programming, my personal advice is to 
> > take one small sample, get it running, and then ask yourself questions like 
> > "Why does it do this?" and "What if I change this." Once you have a 
> > thorough understanding of how the sample accomplishes what it was supposed 
> > to accomplish, and how all the parts contribute to that, repeat with 
> > another one. Along the way ask yourself, "What if I want the computer to do 
> > xyz (similar to sample x)?" Also, play around in the interpreter trying 
> > different permutations.
> > Of course, it goes without saying to read the books and articles, not to 
> > mention to ask all your questions on the scala-user list.
> > Enjoy!
>
> > -
> > eric cs wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
>
> > I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
> > wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
> > with Scala/Lift.
> > My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
> > to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
> > Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
> > head to think like a programer.
> > I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
> > that to a full application, how to link everything together,
> > classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
> > everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
> > practice.
> > I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more if
> > necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out.
> > What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from scratch
> > without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. If it's
> > not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you tell me
> > learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of experience in
> > Java to

[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Timothy Perrett]

Ellis,

Im afraid I disagree with you - Eric does not state what type of
"eComerce" application he wants to create... IMO, this is very
subjective. Lift ships out of the box with PayPal integration - one
could say that a site which allows a user to pay via paypal is
eCommerce... would you disagree?

If Eric takes on advice from the Lift Book and perhaps a learning
scala book like DPP's, then asks lift related questions on here when
he needs specific help im sure he'll be fine... everyone has to start
somewhere and saying Lift is only appropriate for hardcore programmers
because its a new framework is wrong IMHO.

Eric, good luck to you - the lift community is a great place to start
your programming endeavors; you probably have a slightly steeper
learning curve than most, but provided you have grit and determination
there is nothing to say you will not reach your goals. Think
positive.

Cheers, Tim

On Jul 6, 10:13 am, Ellis  wrote:
> Hi Eric,
>
> Here are a few comments and suggestions.
>
> - Honestly, I don't think that lift and scala are the right places for
> you to start out.  The systems are very powerful, but relatively new,
> and so they are still geared towards more experienced programmers.
> - You'll need more than a month to become comfortable with an entirely
> new programming environment.
> - The java toolset can be confusing.  Try NetBeans; it's easier to
> understand than Eclipse.
> - An e-commerce program would take years to get right, but if that's
> what inspires you, you might want to focus on just small parts of such
> a program instead.
>
> Cheers,
> Ellis
>
> On Jul 6, 5:13 am, eric cs  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi guys,
>
> > I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
> > wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
> > with Scala/Lift.
> > My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
> > to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
> > Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
> > head to think like a programer.
> > I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
> > that to a full application, how to link everything together,
> > classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
> > everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
> > practice.
> > I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more if
> > necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out.
> > What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from scratch
> > without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. If it's
> > not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you tell me
> > learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of experience in
> > Java to jump in in Scala? I know it helps but I would like to finish
> > my first e-commerce in august, 100% opensource in Scala if possible.
>
> > P.s:I did 2 years of Computer Science C++ and 2 years of Civil
> > Engineering over 12 years ago both unfinished.
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[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Eric Bowman]

To this I would add:

The way to learn to program, is to program.  It takes a lot of time, and
a lot of hard work.  Reading books is good, and necessary, but it's not
enough.

Also, Lift really uses Scala to the max, so if you only have 30 days, I
would plan to spend the first half just becoming good at Scala.  Which
will take longer than 15 days!

Anyhow, being a "guru" is a life ambition.  It takes time, time, time
and more time.  All your time.  A history of "unfinished" is going to
work against you -- this will take serious dedication and stick-to-it-ness.

An insightful view from Google's Director of Research:
http://norvig.com/21-days.html


Naftoli Gugenhem wrote:
> I would say that the main advantage knowledge of Java over a similar language 
> gives you is knowledge of the Java environment and system, but you can pick 
> that up via scala too.
> As far as turning theory into actual programming, my personal advice is to 
> take one small sample, get it running, and then ask yourself questions like 
> "Why does it do this?" and "What if I change this." Once you have a thorough 
> understanding of how the sample accomplishes what it was supposed to 
> accomplish, and how all the parts contribute to that, repeat with another 
> one. Along the way ask yourself, "What if I want the computer to do xyz 
> (similar to sample x)?" Also, play around in the interpreter trying different 
> permutations.
> Of course, it goes without saying to read the books and articles, not to 
> mention to ask all your questions on the scala-user list.
> Enjoy!
>
> -
> eric cs wrote:
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
> wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
> with Scala/Lift.
> My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
> to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
> Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
> head to think like a programer.
> I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
> that to a full application, how to link everything together,
> classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
> everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
> practice.
> I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more if
> necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out.
> What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from scratch
> without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. If it's
> not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you tell me
> learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of experience in
> Java to jump in in Scala? I know it helps but I would like to finish
> my first e-commerce in august, 100% opensource in Scala if possible.
>
> P.s:I did 2 years of Computer Science C++ and 2 years of Civil
> Engineering over 12 years ago both unfinished.
>
>
>
> >
>   


-- 
Eric Bowman
Boboco Ltd
ebow...@boboco.ie
http://www.boboco.ie/ebowman/pubkey.pgp
+35318394189/+353872801532


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[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Viktor Klang]

I say: Go Eric go!

Nothing is impossible with the right attitude!

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Timothy Perrett wrote:

>
> Ellis,
>
> Im afraid I disagree with you - Eric does not state what type of
> "eComerce" application he wants to create... IMO, this is very
> subjective. Lift ships out of the box with PayPal integration - one
> could say that a site which allows a user to pay via paypal is
> eCommerce... would you disagree?
>
> If Eric takes on advice from the Lift Book and perhaps a learning
> scala book like DPP's, then asks lift related questions on here when
> he needs specific help im sure he'll be fine... everyone has to start
> somewhere and saying Lift is only appropriate for hardcore programmers
> because its a new framework is wrong IMHO.
>
> Eric, good luck to you - the lift community is a great place to start
> your programming endeavors; you probably have a slightly steeper
> learning curve than most, but provided you have grit and determination
> there is nothing to say you will not reach your goals. Think
> positive.
>
> Cheers, Tim
>
> On Jul 6, 10:13 am, Ellis  wrote:
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > Here are a few comments and suggestions.
> >
> > - Honestly, I don't think that lift and scala are the right places for
> > you to start out.  The systems are very powerful, but relatively new,
> > and so they are still geared towards more experienced programmers.
> > - You'll need more than a month to become comfortable with an entirely
> > new programming environment.
> > - The java toolset can be confusing.  Try NetBeans; it's easier to
> > understand than Eclipse.
> > - An e-commerce program would take years to get right, but if that's
> > what inspires you, you might want to focus on just small parts of such
> > a program instead.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ellis
> >
> > On Jul 6, 5:13 am, eric cs  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> >
> > > I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
> > > wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
> > > with Scala/Lift.
> > > My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
> > > to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
> > > Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
> > > head to think like a programer.
> > > I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
> > > that to a full application, how to link everything together,
> > > classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
> > > everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
> > > practice.
> > > I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more if
> > > necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out.
> > > What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from scratch
> > > without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. If it's
> > > not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you tell me
> > > learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of experience in
> > > Java to jump in in Scala? I know it helps but I would like to finish
> > > my first e-commerce in august, 100% opensource in Scala if possible.
> >
> > > P.s:I did 2 years of Computer Science C++ and 2 years of Civil
> > > Engineering over 12 years ago both unfinished.
> >
>


-- 
Viktor Klang
Scala Loudmouth

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[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Ellis]

Hi Eric,

Here are a few comments and suggestions.

- Honestly, I don't think that lift and scala are the right places for
you to start out.  The systems are very powerful, but relatively new,
and so they are still geared towards more experienced programmers.
- You'll need more than a month to become comfortable with an entirely
new programming environment.
- The java toolset can be confusing.  Try NetBeans; it's easier to
understand than Eclipse.
- An e-commerce program would take years to get right, but if that's
what inspires you, you might want to focus on just small parts of such
a program instead.

Cheers,
Ellis


On Jul 6, 5:13 am, eric cs  wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
> wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
> with Scala/Lift.
> My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
> to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
> Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
> head to think like a programer.
> I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
> that to a full application, how to link everything together,
> classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
> everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
> practice.
> I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more if
> necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out.
> What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from scratch
> without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. If it's
> not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you tell me
> learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of experience in
> Java to jump in in Scala? I know it helps but I would like to finish
> my first e-commerce in august, 100% opensource in Scala if possible.
>
> P.s:I did 2 years of Computer Science C++ and 2 years of Civil
> Engineering over 12 years ago both unfinished.

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[Lift] Re: Becoming a Scala/Lift Guru

[Naftoli Gugenhem]

I would say that the main advantage knowledge of Java over a similar language 
gives you is knowledge of the Java environment and system, but you can pick 
that up via scala too.
As far as turning theory into actual programming, my personal advice is to take 
one small sample, get it running, and then ask yourself questions like "Why 
does it do this?" and "What if I change this." Once you have a thorough 
understanding of how the sample accomplishes what it was supposed to 
accomplish, and how all the parts contribute to that, repeat with another one. 
Along the way ask yourself, "What if I want the computer to do xyz (similar to 
sample x)?" Also, play around in the interpreter trying different permutations.
Of course, it goes without saying to read the books and articles, not to 
mention to ask all your questions on the scala-user list.
Enjoy!

-
eric cs wrote:


Hi guys,

I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and I was
wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out to start
with Scala/Lift.
My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really really want
to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design
Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't get my
head to think like a programer.
I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to apply
that to a full application, how to link everything together,
classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how to put
everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts but no
practice.
I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more if
necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out.
What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from scratch
without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. If it's
not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you tell me
learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of experience in
Java to jump in in Scala? I know it helps but I would like to finish
my first e-commerce in august, 100% opensource in Scala if possible.

P.s:I did 2 years of Computer Science C++ and 2 years of Civil
Engineering over 12 years ago both unfinished.



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