Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

in a nutshell:
s2\> s4\!
instead of
s2.\> s\!

And I have yet another suggestion: It works as is, but LilyPond would
have more freedom to make good linebreaks if you insert \bar "" at
appropriate places in the introduction’s cadenza.


Hi, Simon

Better like this?
https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf

Thanks
Alberto


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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

Alberto,

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:25 AM, Alberto Simões-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n184280...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

>
> >
> > in a nutshell:
> > s2\> s4\!
> > instead of
> > s2.\> s\!
> >
> > And I have yet another suggestion: It works as is, but LilyPond would
> > have more freedom to make good linebreaks if you insert \bar "" at
> > appropriate places in the introduction’s cadenza.
>
> Hi, Simon
>
> Better like this?
> https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf


Now, that looks very nice. Great job! It will be a great addition to IMSLP.

Best,
Abraham




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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 30/11/15 14:08, tisimst wrote:

Now, that looks very nice. Great job! It will be a great addition to IMSLP.


Thank you for your help.
I will also contact Chris Sawyer, in case he wants to add these two 
musics to Mutopia.


Best,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

Alberto,

On Sunday, November 29, 2015, Alberto Simões-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n184252...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 22/11/15 22:27, tisimst wrote:
> > I think there was a misunderstanding about the voicing in Valse 2. The
> > beamed groups should NOT be in \voiceOne. They should be in \oneVoice.
> > That should clean up the space taken up by their respective slurs, too.
>
> Hi, Abraham.
>
> Fixed those issues now. I think now I understood it correctly.
> Please look into [1]
>
> best,
> Alberto
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf
>

It still looks like my comments didn't come across, or perhaps you haven't
yet committed those changes, because I'm still seeing the beamed groups
with the stems up where they don't (shouldn't?) be. I'll take a look at the
file later and try to send you more specifics.

Thanks,
Abraham




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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 29/11/15 21:49, tisimst wrote:

Alberto,

On Sunday, November 29, 2015, Alberto Simões-2 [via Lilypond] <[hidden
email] > wrote:



On 22/11/15 22:27, tisimst wrote:
 > I think there was a misunderstanding about the voicing in Valse
2. The
 > beamed groups should NOT be in \voiceOne. They should be in
\oneVoice.
 > That should clean up the space taken up by their respective
slurs, too.

Hi, Abraham.

Fixed those issues now. I think now I understood it correctly.
Please look into [1]

best,
Alberto

[1]
https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf


It still looks like my comments didn't come across, or perhaps you
haven't yet committed those changes, because I'm still seeing the beamed
groups with the stems up where they don't (shouldn't?) be. I'll take a
look at the file later and try to send you more specifics.


Yes, I have missed the pull.
Should be fixed now, together with some other fixes Simon suggested.

Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hell, Simon

On 23/11/15 00:03, Simon Albrecht wrote:

The last measure of the Introduction actually has only two quarters (the
half note isn’t dotted), to be complemented by the immediately following
upbeat for Valse 1.


I need your help with this. Although I got it working for the upper 
voice, it is failing for the lower voice:


I am using: R1*1/2
And getting:

intro.ly:97:5: warning: barcheck failed at: 1/2
  |
R1*1/2 \bar "|."

Of course the upper measure is  gis2  and it doesn't complain there.


It seems that you intentionally replaced -! by -. in Valse 1, however
the original uses them distinctly and I’d stick with that.


Thanks for the note. I didn't really notice (and in fact I am not sure 
what that means, musically speaking, but I will find that out)



The hairpins in Valse 4 should stop at the third beat, I think.


Not sure what you mean with that one.


It would probably be better English to begin the Credits sentence with
‘Thanks to…’.


Fixed!


You’re welcome – and thanks for pointing to this delightful piece :-)


No, thank you for your help.

Working version at 
https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf


Alberto



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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Simon Albrecht]

On 29.11.2015 22:45, Alberto Simões wrote:

Hell, Simon

On 23/11/15 00:03, Simon Albrecht wrote:

The last measure of the Introduction actually has only two quarters (the
half note isn’t dotted), to be complemented by the immediately following
upbeat for Valse 1.


I need your help with this. Although I got it working for the upper 
voice, it is failing for the lower voice:


I am using: R1*1/2
And getting:

intro.ly:97:5: warning: barcheck failed at: 1/2
  |
R1*1/2 \bar "|."

Of course the upper measure is  gis2  and it doesn't complain there.


Full-bar rests automatically perform a barcheck at their beginning and 
at their close. The latter obviously fails here, because the rest 
doesn’t span an entire bar. So you should be using r2 here.





It seems that you intentionally replaced -! by -. in Valse 1, however
the original uses them distinctly and I’d stick with that.


Thanks for the note. I didn't really notice (and in fact I am not sure 
what that means, musically speaking, but I will find that out)


Describing the difference between these in performing is a difficult 
task, but they are usually used distinctively and so we should allow 
performers to make sense of this distinction instead of hiding it away – 
regardless of what it actually means.





The hairpins in Valse 4 should stop at the third beat, I think.


Not sure what you mean with that one.


in a nutshell:
s2\> s4\!
instead of
s2.\> s\!

And I have yet another suggestion: It works as is, but LilyPond would 
have more freedom to make good linebreaks if you insert \bar "" at 
appropriate places in the introduction’s cadenza.


Yours, Simon

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 22/11/15 22:27, tisimst wrote:

I think there was a misunderstanding about the voicing in Valse 2. The
beamed groups should NOT be in \voiceOne. They should be in \oneVoice.
That should clean up the space taken up by their respective slurs, too.


Hi, Abraham.

Fixed those issues now. I think now I understood it correctly.
Please look into [1]

best,
Alberto

[1] https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hi, Abraham,

On 22/11/2015 22:27, tisimst wrote:
I think there was a misunderstanding about the voicing in Valse 2. The 
beamed groups should NOT be in \voiceOne. They should be in \oneVoice. 
That should clean up the space taken up by their respective slurs, too.


Yep, I understood you were suggesting to make them the first voice.
I agree that making their beam go down will take less space. Will try 
later today, as that is quite fast.


Nevertheless, I would not like to join notes in, for example, measures 
5, 7 or 21 (Valse 2). I really thing this distinction might be relevant, 
expressing that the ones joined together can be played with the same 
"force", but that when they are separated, the melody is only the upper 
voice (my humble opinion, but as the original typeset back me, I will 
keep them as they are). :-) :-)


Thanks,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hi, Simon

On 23/11/2015 00:03, Simon Albrecht wrote:
The last measure of the Introduction actually has only two quarters 
(the half note isn’t dotted), to be complemented by the immediately 
following upbeat for Valse 1.


Damn. I though I had that correct, as I recall from when I was looking 
to it :( Thanks for pointing it up.
It seems that you intentionally replaced -! by -. in Valse 1, however 
the original uses them distinctly and I’d stick with that.
Now I got confused. will check what -! is for in the docs to try to 
understand your comment. :-)



The hairpins in Valse 4 should stop at the third beat, I think.


Will need to compare with the original. Will give it another look
It would probably be better English to begin the Credits sentence with 
‘Thanks to…’. 

Hehehe, sure :-) For me it would be easier in Portuguese O:-)

See you later,
Best,
Alberto


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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 23/11/2015 00:03, Simon Albrecht wrote:
It seems that you intentionally replaced -! by -. in Valse 1, however 
the original uses them distinctly and I’d stick with that. 


Ah, I see what you mean. Wasn't aware of that symbol... shame on me :-)

Thanks
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Simon Albrecht]

On 22.11.2015 22:41, Alberto Simões wrote:

Hi all,

Final version here:

https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf

Will submit it to IMSLP later to the end of the week, in case anybody 
spots any critical issue.


The last measure of the Introduction actually has only two quarters (the 
half note isn’t dotted), to be complemented by the immediately following 
upbeat for Valse 1.
It seems that you intentionally replaced -! by -. in Valse 1, however 
the original uses them distinctly and I’d stick with that.

The hairpins in Valse 4 should stop at the third beat, I think.
It would probably be better English to begin the Credits sentence with 
‘Thanks to…’.


You’re welcome – and thanks for pointing to this delightful piece :-)

Yours, Simon

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

Alberto,

On Sunday, November 22, 2015, Alberto Simões-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n183952...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Final version here:
>
> https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf
>
> Will submit it to IMSLP later to the end of the week, in case anybody
> spots any critical issue. I should say I am quite happy with it, and
> will print it ASAP to play it :)
>
> Thank you, again, for all your help,
> Alberto
>
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I think there was a misunderstanding about the voicing in Valse 2. The
beamed groups should NOT be in \voiceOne. They should be in \oneVoice. That
should clean up the space taken up by their respective slurs, too.

Sorry, there were some other things I need to check against the source
engraving that didn't look quite right (but might be), so I'll take a look
later and get back to you.

Best,
Abraham




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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Simon Albrecht]

On 22.11.2015 14:52, tisimst wrote:
One other thing I noticed in Valse 2, m. 42-43 - remove staccato from 
tied end notes. They just don't make sense. I would guess the one in 
the source engraving (m. 42) is a typo as it is omitted in the next 
measure. 


It is definitely not. There is perfect consistency between the staccato 
dots in mm. 37f. and 41–43: the crotchets are supposed to be cut short. 
The first note in m. 44 already is a quaver, and the slur from the next 
note also suggests playing it short, so there is no necessity for the 
dot here. In general, please be careful about changing notation in such 
situations! If you can’t make any sense from that which the composer 
wrote, that doesn’t mean there is none. The 19th century used a number 
of notational features, which were forgotten during the 20th century, 
such as the distinction between (de)crescendo and hairpins. If we as 
modern editors iron out these, we are in danger of eradicating 
information which contains important hints on the performance practice 
and intent of the music.


Yours, Simon

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

On Sunday, November 22, 2015, Simon Albrecht-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n183931...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> On 22.11.2015 14:52, tisimst wrote:
> > One other thing I noticed in Valse 2, m. 42-43 - remove staccato from
> > tied end notes. They just don't make sense. I would guess the one in
> > the source engraving (m. 42) is a typo as it is omitted in the next
> > measure.
>
> It is definitely not. There is perfect consistency between the staccato
> dots in mm. 37f. and 41–43: the crotchets are supposed to be cut short.
> The first note in m. 44 already is a quaver, and the slur from the next
> note also suggests playing it short, so there is no necessity for the
> dot here. In general, please be careful about changing notation in such
> situations! If you can’t make any sense from that which the composer
> wrote, that doesn’t mean there is none. The 19th century used a number
> of notational features, which were forgotten during the 20th century,
> such as the distinction between (de)crescendo and hairpins. If we as
> modern editors iron out these, we are in danger of eradicating
> information which contains important hints on the performance practice
> and intent of the music.
>
> Yours, Simon
>
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You are right, Simon. Thank you for correcting me. I didn't mean to
arbitrarily dismiss a marking that was unfamiliar to me. I'll be more
careful in the future. In a way, it makes me wonder about deviating from
these original engravings *at all*.

Best,
Abraham




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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hi

On 22/11/15 13:52, tisimst wrote:

Valse 1 looks great! There's a natural in the LH chord in m. 58 that
shouldn't be there. If so a double check on all accidentals just to be
sauté there aren't others that should or shouldn't be there.


Yep, still fixing slurs, only. I have a couple other fixes in the queue.

But thank you for poking me on it :)

Will be back shortly :)
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

Alberto,

On Saturday, November 21, 2015, Simon Albrecht-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n18391...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> On 21.11.2015 20:21, Alberto Simões wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 20/11/15 11:30, Alberto Simões wrote:
> >> Hey
> >>
> >> On 20/11/2015 05:49, Abraham Lee wrote:
> >>> That being said, since there appears to be arguments for doing it both
> >>> ways, I'd recommend that you pick one way and be consistent throughout
> >>> the entire work.
> >
> > Can I ask what you like better? [1]
> >
> > Valse 2, measures 3/4 or measures 7/8?
>
> I prefer measures 11/12. Measure 8 should have \oneVoice already, I think.
>

Personally, I like m. 3/4. For me it instantly clarifies what is tied and
what isn't. This is true throughout the entire work. I realize that
containing ties makes parts like Valse 2 m. 33-36 and 38-41 have longer
phrases, so I would at least enclose the tie with the right-side slur. That
seems more true to the phrasing. In m. 45-48, I'd do the same with both
ties, breaking it into two shorter phrases where the tie begins each one.

*NOTE: whichever way you choose to treat the ties/slurs, do it
consistently for the entire work.*

I also agree with Simon that at m. 7 you should already be back to
\oneVoice. That will make the beam group in m. 8 look much better (as well
as the slur). There are other measures that should be done similarly.

There are other times that the two voices have notes of the same duration,
but remain separate voices. This happens multiple times in Valse 2 (m. 7,
21, 23, 31, 55, 57, 71, 73, 81). I see no reason you can't join them
together with \oneVoice even though the original engraving doesn't. I guess
you get to decide on that one.

One other thing I noticed in Valse 2, m. 42-43 - remove staccato from tied
end notes. They just don't make sense. I would guess the one in the source
engraving (m. 42) is a typo as it is omitted in the next measure. Maybe I'm
wrong.

Valse 1 looks great! There's a natural in the LH chord in m. 58 that
shouldn't be there. If so a double check on all accidentals just to be
sauté there aren't others that should or shouldn't be there.

I'd also still consider eliminating the collisions between bar lines and
dynamic text using some kind of whiteout.

Looks like there are more ties and slurs to consider in the Coda section.

That's all for now. Good work! This will be a fine addition to IMSLP.

Best,
Abraham




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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 12/11/15 17:53, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 12.11.2015 16:52, Alberto Simões wrote:

Hello, Simon!

On 12/11/15 11:21, Simon Albrecht wrote:


Two annotations:
– Sometimes it would be nice to have whiteout for DynamicTextSpanner
against SpanBar; I don’t quite know the best way to do it, though.
Perhaps you could use \markup\whiteout-box on the individual text bits?


I didn't understand it very well. You are saying the text from
crescendo/decrescendo and the -- -- are too close?


No, I meant overlaps as in valse 1, m. 39/40. The following works fine:
In 2.19.32, it will be possible to specify padding in whiteout-box (as
of issue 4504). That will be preferable then, but for now
whiteout-outline is just fine. (try \whiteout-box instead of \whiteout
to test)


Hi, Simon
Dynmics whiteout also fixed, and some other pushed a little to the side 
instead of whiting it out.


Current version at
 https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf

Thank you
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hey,

On 11/11/15 19:22, tisimst wrote:


This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines
;-). I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that
I immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged
for: You should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage.
Here's what I mean:


OK, regarding slurs/expression marks I think that I am done.
I am aware of other details you all contributed with, but one step at a 
time.


So, if you would like to see the slur/expression marks result, visit
https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf

Best,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hi all,

Final version here:

https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf

Will submit it to IMSLP later to the end of the week, in case anybody 
spots any critical issue. I should say I am quite happy with it, and 
will print it ASAP to play it :)


Thank you, again, for all your help,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 20/11/15 11:30, Alberto Simões wrote:

Hey

On 20/11/2015 05:49, Abraham Lee wrote:

That being said, since there appears to be arguments for doing it both
ways, I'd recommend that you pick one way and be consistent throughout
the entire work.


Can I ask what you like better? [1]

Valse 2, measures 3/4 or measures 7/8?

I am somewhat divided.

Thank you
Alberto

[1] https://github.com/ambs/music/blob/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous/suite.pdf

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Simon Albrecht]

On 21.11.2015 20:21, Alberto Simões wrote:



On 20/11/15 11:30, Alberto Simões wrote:

Hey

On 20/11/2015 05:49, Abraham Lee wrote:

That being said, since there appears to be arguments for doing it both
ways, I'd recommend that you pick one way and be consistent throughout
the entire work.


Can I ask what you like better? [1]

Valse 2, measures 3/4 or measures 7/8?


I prefer measures 11/12. Measure 8 should have \oneVoice already, I think.

Yours, Simon

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hey

On 20/11/2015 05:49, Abraham Lee wrote:
That being said, since there appears to be arguments for doing it both 
ways, I'd recommend that you pick one way and be consistent throughout 
the entire work.


Yes, of course. I will try and check which one looks better.


If you have updated files that haven't yet been committed to the repo 
you'd like me to look over, let me know when they are available.


No, not yet :) As it was not needed for the question, I did not commit.
Will post whenever it is updated.

Cheers
ambs

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 11/11/15 19:22, tisimst wrote:

[1] https://github.com/ambs/music/tree/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous


This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines
;-). I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that
I immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged
for: You should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage.
Here's what I mean:


Sorry for the delay, but no time recently for my hobbies.

Dear Abraham, can you please check the repo [1] and tell me if you think 
that, in the second false, measure 3/4, the slur should also include the 
tie before it?


Thanks
ambs

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Abraham Lee]

Alberto,

On Thursday, November 19, 2015, Alberto Simões <
al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/11/15 19:22, tisimst wrote:
>
>> [1] https://github.com/ambs/music/tree/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous
>>
>>
>> This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines
>> ;-). I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that
>> I immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged
>> for: You should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage.
>> Here's what I mean:
>>
>
> Sorry for the delay, but no time recently for my hobbies.
>
> Dear Abraham, can you please check the repo [1] and tell me if you think
> that, in the second false, measure 3/4, the slur should also include the
> tie before it?
>
> Thanks
> ambs
>

It doesn't look like the files in the repo [1] have changed since I looked
at them last. To answer your question, though, I'd personally say, yes, the
slur should always include tied notes, before or after.

That being said, since there appears to be arguments for doing it both
ways, I'd recommend that you pick one way and be consistent throughout the
entire work.

If you have updated files that haven't yet been committed to the repo you'd
like me to look over, let me know when they are available.

Best,
Abraham
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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

That's about all for now. Hope that helps.

- Abraham


Thank you, Abraham

I will work the suggestions this weekend and let you all know when I 
have it fixed.


Best,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

Alberto,

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Simon Albrecht-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n183480...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

On 12.11.2015 16:52, Alberto Simões wrote:
>
> > Hello, Simon!
> >
> > On 12/11/15 11:21, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> >>
> >> Two annotations:
> >> – Sometimes it would be nice to have whiteout for DynamicTextSpanner
> >> against SpanBar; I don’t quite know the best way to do it, though.
> >> Perhaps you could use \markup\whiteout-box on the individual text bits?
> >
> > I didn't understand it very well. You are saying the text from
> > crescendo/decrescendo and the -- -- are too close?
>
> No, I meant overlaps as in valse 1, m. 39/40. The following works fine:
> 
> \version "2.19.31"
> \new PianoStaff <<
>\new Staff {
>  \partial 8
>  8-\tweak bound-details.left.text \markup\whiteout "cresc." \cresc
>  4 4 4\!
>}
>\new Staff {
>  8
>  4 4 4
>}
>  >>
> %%%
> In 2.19.32, it will be possible to specify padding in whiteout-box (as
> of issue 4504). That will be preferable then, but for now
> whiteout-outline is just fine. (try \whiteout-box instead of \whiteout
> to test)


I've finally gotten around to looking at the score in more detail and here
are a few more things I've found to improve things:

1. In addition to Simon's suggestions for improving the appearance of the
dynamics when clashing with barlines, a couple of other options are to
choose between the general

\override DynamicTextSpanner.whiteout-box = #3

or changing each individual text (where necessary) to

\markup { \override #'(thickness . 3) \whiteout-box \italic "TEXT" }

Those two settings seemed to work really well on my computer. I found that
\whiteout-box gave more reliable results than \whiteout.

2. Valse 1 m.58 beat 2, f in chord should be fis

3. Valse 3 m.47 move the dynamic "f" left so staves can be closer together
using \once \override DynamicText.X-offset = #-2 just before the note it is
linked to.

That's about all for now. Hope that helps.

- Abraham




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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Simon Albrecht]

On 11.11.2015 15:39, Alberto Simões wrote:

Dear list,

Again, I am both pleased to announce the transcription of the Gounod 
Suite of Valses, "Le Rendez Vous" [1] and asking for any correction 
you might suggest.


Two annotations:
– Sometimes it would be nice to have whiteout for DynamicTextSpanner 
against SpanBar; I don’t quite know the best way to do it, though. 
Perhaps you could use \markup\whiteout-box on the individual text bits?

– M.74 of the Coda lacks a ‘ral’ in ‘rallentando’.

And just out of curiosity: What was your motivation to do the retypeset?

Yours, Simon

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hello, Simon!

On 12/11/15 11:21, Simon Albrecht wrote:


Two annotations:
– Sometimes it would be nice to have whiteout for DynamicTextSpanner
against SpanBar; I don’t quite know the best way to do it, though.
Perhaps you could use \markup\whiteout-box on the individual text bits?


I didn't understand it very well. You are saying the text from 
crescendo/decrescendo and the -- -- are too close?



– M.74 of the Coda lacks a ‘ral’ in ‘rallentando’.


Will look into it, thanks.


And just out of curiosity: What was your motivation to do the retypeset?


I printed both this and the Valse des Syphiles to play in the piano, but 
the digitization gets hard to read when printed. So, I decided to 
typeset both, so I can play them easier. Knowing IMSLP accepts 
transcriptions, I decided to uplod them, too :)


As I've contributed some small Diabelli pieces to Mutopia some time ago, 
I decided to create a github repo, so everyone can fix it if by some 
reason lilypond breaks it (as in, gets incompatibly). So, in the next 
weeks I might take those Diabelli pieces and try to update them for 
recent lilypond, and add to this same repo. By the way, if someone wants 
to join, let me know. >:-)


Best,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Simon Albrecht]

On 12.11.2015 16:52, Alberto Simões wrote:

Hello, Simon!

On 12/11/15 11:21, Simon Albrecht wrote:


Two annotations:
– Sometimes it would be nice to have whiteout for DynamicTextSpanner
against SpanBar; I don’t quite know the best way to do it, though.
Perhaps you could use \markup\whiteout-box on the individual text bits?


I didn't understand it very well. You are saying the text from 
crescendo/decrescendo and the -- -- are too close?


No, I meant overlaps as in valse 1, m. 39/40. The following works fine:

\version "2.19.31"
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff {
\partial 8
8-\tweak bound-details.left.text \markup\whiteout "cresc." \cresc
4 4 4\!
  }
  \new Staff {
8
4 4 4
  }
>>
%%%
In 2.19.32, it will be possible to specify padding in whiteout-box (as 
of issue 4504). That will be preferable then, but for now 
whiteout-outline is just fine. (try \whiteout-box instead of \whiteout 
to test)


Yours, Simon

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

Hi, Abraham



This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines
;-). I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that
I immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged
for: You should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage.
Here's what I mean:


I understand your point, and happy to use it that way (although it is 
not the way the book editor did it).


Although not doubting your suggestion, I would be very interested to 
know if there is such a thing like a document describing a "best 
practices" for writing/engraving music.


Thank you,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Alberto Simões-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n183435...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> Although not doubting your suggestion, I would be very interested to
> know if there is such a thing like a document describing a "best
> practices" for writing/engraving music.
>

There definitely is (though I'd hardly call any of them a "document"). The
most prominent work at the moment is Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars", but
there are others that are very good, some more dated than others:

   - Ted Ross - The Art of Music Engraving and Processing
   - Kurt Stone - Music Notation in the Twentieth Century: A Practical
   Guidebook
   - Gardner Read - Music Notation: A Manual of Modern Practice
   - Clinton Roemer - The Art of Music Copying

HTH,

Abraham




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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

Alberto,

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Alberto Simões-2 [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n183419...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> Again, I am both pleased to announce the transcription of the Gounod
> Suite of Valses, "Le Rendez Vous" [1] and asking for any correction you
> might suggest.
>
> There is a couple of details you will find different from the original
> that are my own decision. But they should be clear.
>
> I will upload the PDF to IMSLP during the weekend.
>
> Thank you all for your precious help, without which I wouldn't be able
> to accomplish this task (both for Lilypond itself, as for feedback and
> random help).
>
> Best,
> Alberto
>
> [1] https://github.com/ambs/music/tree/master/Gounod/LeRendezVous
>

This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines ;-).
I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that I
immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged for:
You should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage. Here's what
I mean:

[image: Inline image 1]

Best,
Abraham


image.png (23K) 





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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 11/11/15 19:41, tisimst wrote:

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Alberto Simões-2 [via Lilypond]
<[hidden email] > wrote:

Although not doubting your suggestion, I would be very interested to
know if there is such a thing like a document describing a "best
practices" for writing/engraving music.


There definitely is (though I'd hardly call any of them a "document").
The most prominent work at the moment is Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars",
but there are others that are very good, some more dated than others:

  * Ted Ross - The Art of Music Engraving and Processing
  * Kurt Stone - Music Notation in the Twentieth Century: A Practical
Guidebook
  * Gardner Read - Music Notation: A Manual of Modern Practice
  * Clinton Roemer - The Art of Music Copying


Thank you.
Will try to find some of them. Mostly curiosity on the topic :)

Best,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Simon Albrecht]

On 11.11.2015 20:29, Alberto Simões wrote:



Hi, Abraham



This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines
;-). I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that
I immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged
for: You should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage.
Here's what I mean:


I understand your point, and happy to use it that way (although it is 
not the way the book editor did it).


It has been common until the 19th century to write it how you did, and 
personally I see no problem with that. But indeed, modern practice 
vouches against it.




Although not doubting your suggestion, I would be very interested to 
know if there is such a thing like a document describing a "best 
practices" for writing/engraving music.


Mainly the ones Abraham mentioned. I’d not keep slavishly to these, 
though; there has always been room for disagreement and personal 
preference in this discipline.


Yours, Simon

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[David Wright]

On Wed 11 Nov 2015 at 12:22:32 (-0700), tisimst wrote:

> This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines ;-).
> I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that I
> immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged for: 
> You
> should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage. Here's what I 
> mean:
> 
> Inline image 1

Would it be possible for you to attach your image to the email rather
than to insert it in this form. Not everyone reads their email in HTML.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[tisimst]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 2:18 PM, David Wright [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n183444...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> On Wed 11 Nov 2015 at 12:22:32 (-0700), tisimst wrote:
>
> > This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines
> ;-).
> > I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that I
> > immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged
> for: You
> > should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage. Here's what
> I mean:
> >
> > Inline image 1
>
> Would it be possible for you to attach your image to the email rather
> than to insert it in this form. Not everyone reads their email in HTML.
>

Absolutely. See attached.

Best,
Abraham


tie-enclosed-by-slur.png (38K) 





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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 11/11/15 21:16, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 11 Nov 2015 at 12:22:32 (-0700), tisimst wrote:


This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines ;-).
I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that I
immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged for: You
should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage. Here's what I mean:

Inline image 1


Would it be possible for you to attach your image to the email rather
than to insert it in this form. Not everyone reads their email in HTML.


Here it goes

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[Alberto Simões]

On 11/11/15 20:00, Simon Albrecht wrote:

I’d not keep slavishly to these, though; there has always been room for
disagreement and personal preference in this discipline.


Agreed :-)
I think that disagreement is always good. But to disagree I need to know 
with which to disagree about :)


Best,
Alberto

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Re: Gounod - Le Rendez Vous

[David Wright]

On Wed 11 Nov 2015 at 14:21:45 (-0700), tisimst wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 2:18 PM, David Wright [via Lilypond] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed 11 Nov 2015 at 12:22:32 (-0700), tisimst wrote:
> 
> > This is looking MUCH better (nice work with the extended dynamic lines ;
> -).
> > I'll look at it in greater detail later, but here's one thing that I
> > immediately noticed quite a few instances of that you would get dinged
> for: You
> > should ALWAYS enclose a tied note within a slurred passage. Here's what 
> I
> mean:
> >
> > Inline image 1
> 
> Would it be possible for you to attach your image to the email rather
> than to insert it in this form. Not everyone reads their email in HTML.

> Absolutely. See attached.

Thanks to you both. Alberto's attachment is easier to look at with my
client, but Abraham's worked out fine too.

I also agree that modern practice is easier to read (the slur envelops
the time period that it represents). The older method would look even
worse if the first note was tied as well.

Cheers,
David.

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