on 03/11/2006 00:59 Matthew Hodgson said the following:
snip
In the end, we learned the following lessons about vision impaired users
and screen readers:
a) Only a completely blind person used the screen reader.
snip
Although you were talking about visually-impaired users and screen
on 03/11/2006 07:50 kate said the following:
What about users with cognitive disibilities? Its a very wide
catagorie which includes, simple dyslexia to extreme mental retardation.
Apparently these people regularly use the web as a primary imformation
source so must be considered.
Would they
Bruce wrote:
I have been following this with great interest.
What I have been considering (I know its been covered before) is putting
a link at the top of the page,
go to text version
Go to menu
I would think that screen reader users would find that a good addition
to be able to read an
@Matthew Hodgson:
That's brilliantly useful information, Matthew. It is interesting you
mention screen magnifying, because it is my company's policy to use ems
as measurements as far as possible, based on the conjecture that
partially-sighted people would probably want to increase their
Bruce wrote:
I would think that screen reader users would find that a good addition
to be able to read an article in text only, and a shortcut to scan
articles which also have brief title tags in addition to descriptive
titles.
In my design content comes first already...
Not really at
Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
This article seems to be good food for thought (and it references the
earlier study that I did ;-) ).
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/workingwithothers
It was after reading this that I found the guts to question Talibani
standards tyrants. It's an absolutely
on 03/11/2006 10:50 Rahul Gonsalves said the following:
snip
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/
I wonder whether any of the conclusions that were drawn in the study,
are still valid, or whether there has been further research to either
supplement or contradict it?
on 03/11/2006 11:18 Barney Carroll said the following:
snip
By the way, could anyone elaborate on what tab-indexing is? And how does
the Alt+# system work? These seem to be crucial elements of screen
reader browsing but I have a very limited grasp of their convention and
application.
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/ozewai2005/
I wonder whether any of the conclusions that were drawn in the study,
are still valid, or whether there has been further research to either
supplement or contradict it? Specifically, one observation, The
majority of screen reader users
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 02:36:22PM +, Barney Carroll wrote:
w3c's accessibility guidelines are highly revered, and for the most part
there is good cause for this - and as I've said I am a supporter of the
notion of standardisation - but when talking about the precepts of
design for the
Barney Carroll wrote:
Only I can never know if I have achieved it, because I can't test it;
nor can I find anybody else to test for me, or even pin-point known
problems.
Dear Barney,
For Firefox, this seems like an interesting utility. I haven't used it
yet, but I think you might find it
BarneyFirst port of call is try using a screen reader yourself. Although expensive to purchase, a free 30 day evaluation of IBM HPR can be obtained. The experience is different with each type of screen reader due to their quitet propriety ways of operating. Although you can never simulate being
On 11/2/06, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear list,
Not sure if this is exactly the place to ask, but I am very eager to get
any authoritative (and by now, 'authoritative' can be qualified by
anybody who's so much as seen one) information on screen readers.
I suspect some of this
On 11/2/06, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Despite the fact I haven't been able to find anyone who has ever used a
screen reader,
Hi Barney,
JAWS used to have a free downloadable demo that would give you a taste
of what it is like to use it. I used the full version on my last job.
It
On 2 Nov 2006, at 14:36:22, Barney Carroll wrote:
Not sure if this is exactly the place to ask, but I am very eager
to get any authoritative (and by now, 'authoritative' can be
qualified by anybody who's so much as seen one) information on
screen readers.
Despite the fact I haven't been
Hi Barney,
We have a
great deal
of
experience
of user
testing
with
screen
readers
and
magnifiers,
and
provide
testing
and
training
services.
I hope
this is
considered
to be
on-topic
because
web
standards
and
semantic
markup are
very
important
for screen
reader
users. In
fact they
probably
benefit
I've just carried out a research project (http://www.roboneill.co.uk/research.htm) in which I observed blind web users in action. You just don't realise the obstacles they face until you see it for yourself.
Look in your yellow pages for a local self help group, I'm sure they would be happy to
Whether
you use
Fangs or a
real
screen
reader it
is
difficult
for a
developer
or tester
to know if
a website
is really
accessible
unless
they have
an
understanding
of how
screen
reader
users
visualise
a website
and
interact
with it.
There is a
huge
difference
between
being able
to hear
the
On 11/2/06, Michael Yeaney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And yet again...on the topic of screen readers, nobody has once mentioned
the possibility that perhaps we as web developers a pretty darn good job,
and that maybe it is the screen reader manufacturers that need the 'kick in
the balls'why,
That's
because
very few
actually
do a
pretty
darn good
job. Most
don't give
screen
reader
users a
moment's
thought,
and it is
fortunate
that they
coincidentally
benefit
from some
things
that good
designers
do such as
semantic
markup and
standards-compliant
coding.
Furthermore,
I don't
think that
Hi all,
Michael - I'm not exactly sure which message in particular you are
replying to, but I have a few comments on this statement you made:
On 11/2/06, Michael Yeaney wrote:
And yet again...on the topic of screen readers, nobody has once
mentioned the possibility that perhaps we as web
On 03/11/06, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So if I may make a few suggestions:Nicely said. Way to cut through the crap!
***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe:
1. Let us not kick anyone in the balls.
...
Agreed...especially with heavy boots..LoL..onward:
What frustrates me most about screen reader software for the web is
the fact that the only way for them to get information from a document
is to flatten and remove ~2/3's (CSS and script) of the
On 11/2/06, Michael Yeaney wrote:
What frustrates me most about screen reader software for the web is
the fact that the only way for them to get information from a document
is to flatten and remove ~2/3's (CSS and script) of the factors that
(possibly) are contributing to the presentation as a
On 11/2/06, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1. Let us not kick anyone in the balls. We're part of the same team
here. Lets keep this constructive. Michael - what exactly is it about
screen readers that is bugging you? Frances - what is it about them that
is poor? Anyone else?
Hey
On 11/2/06, Frances Berriman wrote:
I just meant mostly that the software - in my limited experience
personally using it - seems difficult to use.
Hi Frances - no worries...
Yes, I would expect it to be difficult for you to use. Guess what?
(Forgive the generalizations about to be written) It
Good points...I'll try to clarify:
There may not be the ability to change the layout, but there are
layout considerations when developing desktop software. If you are
building a desktop application and drag and drop form fields (a
convenient example, I'll admit) their tab order is in the order
: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Articles/reasearch/experience of screen readers
On 11/2/06, Michael Yeaney wrote:
What frustrates me most about screen reader software for the web is
the fact that the only way for them to get information from a document
is to flatten
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: 02 November 2006 23:28
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Articles/reasearch/experience of screen readers
I have been following this with great interest.
What I have been considering (I know its been covered before) is putting a
link
When I worked at the National Library we
had Vision Australia
(used to be the Blind Society) look at the new Libraries Australia website.
You can pay for them to go through a site
and theyll tell you and show you whether it can be used by visually
impaired people. It is a real eye
I would love any links to articles/archived polemic/research studies/the
appropriate list... If anybody here has actual experience of a screen
reader, I would be overjoyed to hear from them.
Joe Clark or James Edwards aka Brothercake are practicing screen reader
testing with various
Hello,
putting a
link at the top of the page,
Bruce, What about users with cognitive disibilities? Its a very wide
catagorie which includes, simple dyslexia to extreme mental retardation.
Apparently these people regularly use the web as a primary imformation
source so must be considered.
32 matches
Mail list logo
