Re: [WSG] html validation: exactly what is it good for?

Shlomi Asaf wrote: If i open the site and see that it works on my target browsers, why i need the validation for? what do i benefit from it? Well, since you started out with an example of malformed and non-valid xhtml Strict (1.0, I guess/hope), then the answer is simple: if it isn't valid th

Re: [WSG] Opera 8 and 9 difference

Keryx webb wrote: http://penilla.nu/ I suspect that soon most Opera users will have upgraded their browsers, but in the meantime I would need some CSS-filter or JS-magic to send different values to version 8 and 9... You can expand on the @mediaquery filter, and make it a little safer to u

Re: [WSG] IE and image markup white space

Designer wrote: My problem is that, in IE, I get a small horizontal line appearing in the gap between the images. Not only in IE, but it is most visible there. IE has whitespace problems, and all browsers will create gaps because images are inline elements when a Strict Doctype is used. The li

Re: [WSG] A seismic shift in browser usage for me ....

Michael Kear wrote: In fact, that's what I explicitly stated in my post. [...] And I agreed with you on that, and your decision to "go standard". I was just trying to figure out if you had a sound base for making/checking that decision, as figures derived from "statistics", IMO, is not a good b

Re: [WSG] A seismic shift in browser usage for me ....

Jan Brasna wrote: If you have a methodology that works, is almost accurate and you know there are no quirks in how any agent could misbehave, then you're fine. UAs don't always behave uniformly in their engagement of sites, through their own upgrading-cycles, so there should be plenty of room

Re: [WSG] A seismic shift in browser usage for me ....

Michael Kear wrote: [...] Now I know that these figures only represent my own audience, and IE is still the most used browser by quite a long chalk, but it does signify a shift of quite large proportions in my traffic. Ever had a quality-check on those figures? I'm not saying your figu

Re: [WSG] To Span or to Div, that is the question

Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: By default, div has no margin and no padding. It doesn't add any whitespace at all, and it does not insert a carriage return. It is simply has display: block; and all other properties left with the default or inherited values. Fully agree.

Re: [WSG] Testing "CSS: Map Pop"

Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Does anyone have any other way, a better way, of dealing with this? If not I will have to create that alternative for all uses of this. Well, it is just an idea... I tested with the map-image as ordinary img-element styled as "removed float" inside that ul - abov

Re: [WSG] Testing "CSS: Map Pop"

Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: "[...] Did you test in IE 'accessibility' mode? [...]" I must confess your mention of this is the first I've heard of this mode. So [...] Would you kindly explain more about this please. I think David means these options...

Re: [WSG] Mystery Gap in IE

White Ash wrote: Essentially, I need to be able to manually have text, forms, etc. wrap below the image on the left in the #content div. Any light to shed on this would be greatly appreciated. http://rortax.com/quorum.shtml Ok, the 'position: relative' on the paragraph in that particular l

Re: [WSG] Mystery Gap in IE

White Ash wrote: ... if you look at http://rortax.com/quorum.shtml, the whole paragraph under "Quorum Discount" does not show. It flickers on a Refresh and then goes away. I can click and drag over the hidden text to see it, and click away from it to see it stay. As soon as I approach the navb

Re: [WSG] 3 column liquid, source ordered

Darren Wood wrote: I've been trying to find/develop a nicely source ordered 3 column liquid layout...with the right and left columns a fixed width. I'm not having much luck. I couldn't even find an example on the css-list wiki :( Think there has been one listen in the css-d wiki for quite a

Re: [WSG] OT - but really need help

Cole Kuryakin wrote: So, so-far, IE CC is the way I'll go unless someone can say: "Hey Cole, this is what you're doing wrong with your css. Do ***this*** and it'll be fixed without the need to use IE CC" :-) I just did. Covering up for one of IE's many whitespace bugs is *not* necessary, whe

Re: [WSG] OT - but really need help

Cole Kuryakin wrote: http://www.x7m.us/_problems/problem.htm Layout displays as per spec in FF, Netscape, Opera. But look at it in IE and you'll see the y-repeated background in both the #nav_bar and #content divs are increasing the height of the wrapper by about 3px. IE/win doesn't see "emp

Re: [WSG] Web site images question

David Dixon wrote: Sorry Georg, I appreciate the time you took in posting your response, but I think you misunderstood my question. No, I didn't. I just put a pretty obvious case into a proper context. Didn't take long... :-) I wasn't asking what was the opinion on the appropriateness of alt

Re: [WSG] Web site images question

David Dixon wrote: [...] It would be useful to get a few more opinions on what others believe the purpose is... The purpose of 'text' in the alt-attribute it to expand/complete the meaning - in context, (as close to) the same as the visible image itself does. Describing the image is not wh

Re: [WSG] Web site images question

Thierry Koblentz wrote: Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Fine, I'll agree to disagree with you here then. To me, having the ALT text in there Accessibility Testing & Consulting - A wheelchair. A symbol for accessibility - Accessibility is a term... Is redundant, compared to Accessibility Testing &

Re: [WSG] Jello variation

http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index2.html Designer wrote: How strange - it fits on mine down to 800 by 600, but if I have the font-size set at anything but 'smallest', it doesn't! And once it's 'gone wrong it's hard to get it right again! I'm talking about IE6/winXP, viewed via the 'vi

Re: [WSG] Jello variation

Tom Livingston wrote: Can't recall how to switch it to quirks mode... http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd";> That comment will keep IE6, and also IE7, in quirks mode. Not a good thing to do IMO, but that's another matter :-) I prefer using an XHTML doctype in such cases, because I can do

Re: [WSG] Jello variation

Tom Livingston wrote: In IE6, when the page approaches it's intended max-width, there is a weird jump in the width. A minor thing, but would like to fix it if possible. Got any ideas? http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index2.html Looks like the old, unreliable, "quirks mode" expression, an

Re: [WSG] Multiple stylesheets

Paul Bennett wrote: I recall many moons ago a site which had multiple stylesheets (using the link element). In Firefox, a small icon appeared at the bottom pane of the browser and allowed the user to switch between stylesheets. Can anyone point me to a site that uses this technique? I'd like

Re: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption

Patrick H. Lauke wrote: From their mission statement: "WAI develops support materials to help understand and implement Web accessibility" http://www.w3.org/WAI/about-links.html And from the requirements of WCAG 2 "Design deliverables with ease of use in mind" http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-r

Re: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption

Am I alone in thinking that it's disgraceful that, after years of development, WCAG 2.0 still needs the effort of the community to be made understandable? No. Are WAI fulfilling their mandate by making the guidelines so dense and obscure that they need translation? Not unless that is part o

Re: [WSG] new site critique - extemely

its just that for 10 years there is nothing that moves regading screen sizes and accesability have to follow the smallest standard size in order to not be refused by visitors. I can't see why, since we can make our designs adapt to available space. We just have to design them that way. I dont

Re: [WSG] IE glitch

Tom Livingston wrote: http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index.html Anyone see why the first line in the first paragraph, which is next to "left nav" is pushed over a bit? 3px jog. Add the usual 'hasLayout' trigger... * html #content{height: 100%;} ...that'll make it look right in IE - even i

Re: [WSG] CSS is dead... use markup for presentation.

After looking at the responses, I guess 'use common sense, and wait till the dust settles before changing anything of what works now', is the most appropriate "action" for the time being. That's the path I was going to follow anyway, so it is good to see that I'm not too far off from the main-stre

[WSG] CSS is dead... use markup for presentation.

Looks like most efforts towards separation of content and presentation may cause severe accessibility-failures[1] in the future. Looks like there will be no need/use for valid markup either - according to the latest WGAC 2.0 draft. Ref: article on ALA[2]. Time to go back to presentational marku

Re: [WSG] Floats not working right in IE6 - can you help me find out why?

Michael Kear wrote: The content of the page is flowing around the menu (which is inside the content div and floated left) in Firefox, but isn't flowing in IE. So see what I mean, go to http://incheckdb.com The "Around the site" box at the bottom should be almost touchi

Re: [WSG] Site check - gofetch.net.nz

Rachel May wrote: We have just launched this site: http://www.gofetch.net.nz/ And would really appreciate anyone to please look it over and let me know of any issues? You should test it with 'minimum font size' in all browsers that have such a user option, and IE/win's 'ignore font size'. Yo

Re: [WSG] Goals for FF Text Zoom?

Ryan Moore wrote: How many text zooms do you aim for while keeping the layout intact? Obviously the more the better, but just wondering if anyone had any rule of thumbs. I design for, and use, the following for general testing of layouts... All resizing steps in IE/win. 8 - 10 steps (180 - 20

Re: [WSG] equal height columns question

kvnmcwebn wrote: Im trying to a layout a design thats based on http://positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/example/equalheight The reason im using the equal heights column is to get two graphical elements aligned on either side of the middle column. My question is how would i alig

Re: [WSG] Validation Errors - Follow up.

Jan Brasna wrote: * {background-color : inherit} ? Do you think this is really necessary? I mean - just for getting rid of the warnings? No! Definitely not! I know what warnings are: 'hints to look out for possible trouble-spots'. Check - and forget. But maybe some of those who see val

Re: [WSG] Validation Errors - Follow up.

sorry to labour the point, but presumably you mean you toiled through everywhere you'd defined a colour then said background-color : inherit. Yes? Essentially, yes. A true labor of hate; but it validated so in the end I accomplished my goal. Was there an easier way to accomplish what I did?

Re: [WSG] Accessibility and Browsers (N4.x)

Katrina wrote: Is it recommended to continue to use work-arounds to ensure accessibility in older browsers? I think we can start to forget the older browsers. However, I do shut out the oldest browsers from the stylesheets since it doesn't require much extra to do so. I use the @media rule in

Re: [WSG] Ultimate 2 columns' requirements

Stevio wrote: [...] Is this possible? Partially... ...with IE/win a little behind - as usual. CSS in page-head. Check Roger's site (linked in) for details. Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no **

Re: [WSG] Re: XHTML Strict - top margin

Elle Meredith wrote: My left div is floating and I think that because of that, only in IE, my iframe is pushed below the content of my left div. Again, why does this happen? Page is at: http://farmpeacelove.com/gb/index.php 1: The #wrapper is too narrow, and IE/win don't know how to overflo

Re: [WSG] Re: XHTML Strict - top margin

Elle Meredith wrote: When I added * { margin:0; padding: 0; } the top margin disappeared. Why wouldn't you recommend doing that? The page is at: http://waznelle.com/3756/tumbalong/index.html No problem on a simple page like that, but solving 'collapsing margins'[1][2] by zeroing out _all_ mar

Re: [WSG] XHTML Strict - top margin

Elle Meredith wrote: I've decided to change from xhtml transitional to strict and now for some reason, even tough I declared body {margin:0; padding:0;} p {margin-top:0;} my content still doesn't stick to the top. Would you know Why? You'll probably find the exact answer here...

Re: [WSG] page check :: ~dL

Oh, well... ...just one of those... :-) Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *

Re:[OFF-LIST] [WSG] page check :: ~dL

David Laakso wrote: I'd appreciate your comments an suggestions on this page . It seems to be doing alright -- at least it is not upside down -- in browsercam, and 'live' on my end(famous last words :-P ). (css is embedded) Thanks, ~davidLaakso

Re: [WSG] Opera and transparent png

Ted Drake wrote: I'm not seeing the transparent png issue in my own browser, only in the screen shot posted earlier. The biggest issue I'm worried about is the collapsing line-height. That's an Opera 8 problem only, I think. Have no idea what causes it. Opera 9beta handles that part well, and

Re: [WSG] min-width and max-width - [was Pixel to Em conversion]

Designer wrote: As soon as I see someone mention 'min-width' or 'max-width' I despair and move on to the next message. The reason? Because I know that somewhere between 75 and 90% of the site viewers will see a mess. (I mean IE, of course). Yes, I do know that with a lot of messy code it is

Re: [WSG] Pixel to Em conversion.

Obviously you guys are not up on the latest... Spacer gifs. You can add them into each table cell and force the cell to any width. I'm thinking of writing a tutorial on it... Never mind that... we're to busy adding the even more unobtrusive to our XHTML, so we can replicate tables with divs

Re: [WSG] Pixel to Em conversion - opera web team test

Felix Miata wrote: Why not use text relative widths? Make the left 36em wide and the right 12em wide. That's a fluid design, just what the web was designed to be. Everyone with a reasonably sized window will see the same line lengths, regardless of their default text size, like here: http://mr

Re: [WSG] Pixel to Em conversion.

morten fjellman wrote: Outstanding! :) Thanks a lot! Can I trouble you for an explanation on how to get the menu to compress as well? You don't have to set up the code, but I would be gratefull for a push in the right direction. Easier to push with a bit of CSS-code :-) Browsers like it bette

Re: [WSG] Pixel to Em conversion.

morten fjellman wrote: Thank you, but there seems to be more to it than that. I've put width:220px; on #sidebar and margin-right:220px; on #content, but the design breaks badly. I think I need to set some % or em units on the header and menu, but I don't quite understand how to. The header has

Re: [WSG] Accessible Photot Gallery

Thierry Koblentz wrote: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/gallery/photo_gallery.asp Did you check at the top of the viewport? Above the larger image? You should see buttons to help you navigate through the gallery. The first one should get focus so keyboard users can tab twice and get to t

Re: [WSG] Accessible Photot Gallery

Thierry Koblentz wrote: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/gallery/photo_gallery.asp I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this solution. Can I have it in reversed order, please :-) That is: 'content' followed by 'gallery' in source-code, and floated side by side. I'd like to w

Re: [WSG] [sitecheck] http://new.hopkinsprogramming.net/

Hopkins Programming wrote: I know by default, IE interpets font-size:1em in the body{} weirdly, but I actually didn't see that problem occur this time. I tested in IE4-7, text sizes all looked normal here.. Thanks for pointing it out. That bug only becomes a problem when it is multiplied thr

Re: [WSG] [sitecheck] http://new.hopkinsprogramming.net/

http://new.hopkinsprogramming.net/. Forgot to check for IE weirdness... :-) You have triggered the 'em font-resizing bug' in IE/win. To cure it, add... html {font-size: 100%;} Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ***

Re: [WSG] [sitecheck] http://new.hopkinsprogramming.net/

Hopkins Programming wrote: http://new.hopkinsprogramming.net/. Please let me know what you think of it in terms of graphics, standards, semantics, and whatever else might come to mind! Looks like it could do with some min/max width. That 'PC Repair' graphic may make me think twice before l

Re: [WSG] Page Break properties

Tom Livingston wrote: Are the page-break properties widely supported? Or at least in IE6, Safari and maybe Opera (Win/Mac)? Any resources on their use besides the w3c site? Opera is coming close to proper handling of page-break properties, and has been there for a while. Don't think other brow

Re: [WSG] IE un-hover

Kenny Graham wrote: Probably a common IE bug but I can't find info on it. Anyone know what this wonderful browser is doing? http://www.kennygraham.net/paul IE/win needs a "major" change to take place on the link-element itself, or else it won't repaint anything inside that link. Add this 'n

Re: [WSG] scrolling sidebar

Christine Rainer wrote: Wouldn't it be much nicer and user-friendly to have the sidebar scroll beside the content than having to go up and down the page all the time? I don't think scrolling sidebars are all that user-friendly, but maybe something less will do... (I guess there's no css solu

Re: [WSG] Please Vote for your Favorite

http://cssliquid.com/2006/news/100-gallery-entries-now-vote-for-the-best/ It's missing a "none of the above" selection. No it's not. If you look at the top left of your screen, it should say "Back." Does that count ? :-) (ok, I like to stop the 'Bunny Hunt', so I didn't get to test the [B

Re: [WSG] help needed in validating webpage

Germ wrote: Result: Tentatively passed validation File:Cartoon.html Encoding:utf-8 Doctype:XHTML 1.0 Strict Root Namespace: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml No Character Encoding Found! Falling back to UTF-8. A couple of W3C pages pointing at the issue... 1:

Re: [WSG] Site Check: SAPheadhunter

Thierry Koblentz wrote: Doh! Talk about totally missing the big picture here. LOL Happens to me all the time. Must be old age - or something. *Thanks*. You're welcome. Now, remember to test with all the usual browser-options, because I might :-) At the moment that... SAP headhunter ...

Re: [WSG] Max/min width for IE

Ricci Angela wrote: And, besides a javascript solution, all I've found out was MS dynamic properties. If somebody already used those, please could you share your experiences ? IE-expressions are working just fine, but most implementations are mode dependent. Min/max all in one - regardless o

Re: [WSG] help needed in validating webpage

Germ wrote: So u can actually apply the "float: left" to the image instead of "align:left" See: ...for details about the float-property. Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion

Re: [WSG] help needed in validating webpage

Germ wrote: The reason i have the "target" is so it can open up in a new page. but it culd dispaear if its easier Plenty of dispute around the (un)usefulness / (un)friendliness of opening new windows/tabs. My advice is: don't use 'target' and don't open new windows/tabs. That way you can al

Re: [WSG] help needed in validating webpage

Peter Williams wrote: http://www.germworks.net Short answer: Change your doctype to transitional, it will allow those attributes. Not a good solution, but if that 'target' *must* stay in there, then it is probably the best one. Long answer: Standby for Lachlan's reply on the evils of servin

Re: [WSG] Site Check: SAPheadhunter

http://www.tjkdesign.com/clients/roel/ Left column not well prepared for my standard option... 'min font size = 14px'. Same "overshooting" result in Firefox 1.5 and Opera 9tp2. I can't think of a "fix" besides creating a large gutter between the two columns... Not necessary, as you can h

Re: [WSG] Site Check: SAPheadhunter

Thierry Koblentz wrote: http://www.tjkdesign.com/clients/roel/ Left column not well prepared for my standard option... 'min font size = 14px'. Same "overshooting" result in Firefox 1.5 and Opera 9tp2. Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no **

Re: [WSG] Menu Out Of Place in IE 6

CK wrote: A much of pain as these pages have been, a reluctance to adding anything to the core stylesheet begs the question, would these rules be better served from a CSS conditional? No conditional comment needed. Just leave them in the page heads as they are now. My version look like this.

Re: [WSG] Why does table fall below the left menu box?

Michael Kear wrote: Can anyone see why the table in this page is falling down below the menu box on the left? It's in a content div, and the top of the table is always below the last item in the left menu sidebar. http://incheckdb.com/index.cfm?pid=111300 Add a 'hasLayout'[1] trigger...

Re: [WSG] Menu Out Of Place in IE 6

CK wrote: First many thanks. The CSS rules have been included inline, specific to each page. Has this worked? Yes, they both render fine in my IE6 on win2K. The 'mailing list' page should also be given the styles created for the 'banner' page, as they'll then take care of the 'IE italic bug'

Re: [WSG] Menu Out Of Place in IE 6

CK wrote: Still getting the problem on the link to us, and mailing list: (http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/banners.html) (http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/mailing.html) What have I missed in the CSS? Not much, but IE/win is missing a lot since it doesn't understand C

Re: [WSG] Menu Out Of Place in IE 6

CK wrote: The client has said the following pages have the menu out of place in IE...6.029. Can someone offer a solution? The pages validate. http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/tos.html I suggest you look at this CSS-line... ul#privacy, ul#terms, ul#agreement li{ margin: 0 0 .5em

Re: [WSG] Usability Studies on "Click Here" Labelling of Links?

Christian Montoya wrote: Not to offend any listers, but my experience with the 40-55 age group is "old habits die hard." This problem isn't just in computing either. It would be an exercise in futility to try and get those users to understand labelled links, or tabbed browsing, or any other t

Re: [WSG] Fieldset background

Dean Matthews wrote: Any way to get IE6 to play nice with the background? Not sure how many browsers I have upset with this, but IE6, and some others, seem to play along a bit better when I added this... form, fieldset {position: relati

Re: [WSG] IE mystery wrapping yet again

White Ash wrote: Here is a design I’m working on that is fine in Opera and Firefox. However in IE, the content div is pushed underneath the right-hand column. Even if I take everything out content wise and just have some unformatted text, it still does this. I started with code from inknois

Re: [WSG] Site check [The Body Collection]

James Oppenheim wrote: I would like some comments on a site that I am currently developing. http://www.showandtell.com.au/bodycollection/ Maybe you should provide some more of that green background for the footer-text to grow on. I get some light green text on top of a white background since

Re: [WSG] injecting a bit of humor into your css

div.webCarpenters { position: relative /* like life itself */; width: auto /* no clue */; height: auto /* no clue here either */; min-height: 0 /* trigger hasLayout in IE7 */; background: inherit /* reuse and save energy */; } -- http://www.gunlaug.no *

Re: [WSG] injecting a bit of humor into your css

Al Kendall wrote: #liberals { float: left; } Sorry. I know we should keep politics out of WSG, but I just had to! then maybe it should be #politicians {clear: both} I'll add .royals {clear: none;} everywhere, since they (mostly) stay out of politics in my little corner of the world.

Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

Webmaster wrote: I've never heard of this Quirks mode. Do you have any favorite source on the topic that I can read? I am really interested in making my pages/code proper. 'Quirks mode' is what we call the non-standardized ways of rendering - laying out - web pages, from before there were su

Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

Shawn J. Cassick wrote: just use the !important tag in your css to define the 0px for gecko engine and then use a -10px wthout the !important tag for ie That's addressing the perceived symptom, not the cause. You need to understand the problem fully before you can attempt to find a soluti

Re: [WSG] text/html and application/xhtml+xml

Lachlan Hunt wrote: You forgot two other UAs that don't support XHTML: Google and Lynx! Looks like Lynx now has "some kind of" support for XHTML... Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *

Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

CK wrote: While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any advantage does this method offer. Might have been a 'Netscape 4' filtered link...? Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no **

Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

Webmaster wrote: http://www.gypsydev.us/css/ All I'm trying to do is get the image to be exactly along the top. Images defaults to 'display: inline' in IE/win - regardless of mode. Solution... .check img {display: block;} ...should solve all positioning-problems. regards Georg -- h

Re: [WSG] IE mystery padding / wrapping

White Ash wrote: Here is a design I'm working on that is fine in Opera and Firefox. However in IE, the content div is pushed underneath the left-hand picture. http://spiritgath.org/2006/thecall_trial.shtml You may try adding... #sidebar-b {margin-left: -6px;} ...to prepare some space for o

Re: [WSG] text/html and application/xhtml+xml

Steve Olive wrote: I am interested in some of the very strong opinions on the list about the serving of XHTML compliant documents as text/html. I hope you don't mind me asking for your opinions and reasons. I have collected some of my opinions and reasons here...

Re: [WSG] Menu BG Issue

CK wrote: Thanks, as I said doing this in bit of a rush. Validation issues handled, what of the menu bg? http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/ Correcting background-position... div#navigation li a:hover {color: #26370A; background: url(i/menu1.gif) 0 -24px; padding: 0 0 0 10px;} ...wi

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