Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

We should start a new vote for issues@. We've already voted to merge dev@ and keep the user lists as is. On 28 March 2017 at 14:18, Paul Benedict wrote: > Yes, I think combining the "user@" and "dev@" variants into two are > appropriate. +1 (non-binding) for me. > > Furthermore --- and this has

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Yes, I think combining the "user@" and "dev@" variants into two are appropriate. +1 (non-binding) for me. Furthermore --- and this has always been a scratch of mine to itch (and I raise this about once a year!) -- I would like a dedicated "issues@" mailing list like other Apache projects. The trad

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

I followed up with infra over the weekend but haven't gotten a response yet. On 27 March 2017 at 20:21, Ralph Goers wrote: > Matt, > > Any update on this? > > Ralph > > On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Ralph Goers > wrote: > > Thanks Matt! > > Ralph > > On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Matt Sicker w

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Matt, Any update on this? Ralph > On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Ralph Goers wrote: > > Thanks Matt! > > Ralph > >> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Matt Sicker > > wrote: >> >> No other opinions apparently. I suppose we'll go with the single list with >> bounce messag

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Thanks Matt! Ralph > On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Matt Sicker wrote: > > No other opinions apparently. I suppose we'll go with the single list with > bounce messages. I'll follow up with infra later today. > > On 18 March 2017 at 13:12, Ralph Goers > wrote

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

No other opinions apparently. I suppose we'll go with the single list with bounce messages. I'll follow up with infra later today. On 18 March 2017 at 13:12, Ralph Goers wrote: > OK. I guess I am fine with the bounce messages. Any other opinions? > > Ralph > > On Mar 18, 2017, at 8:42 AM, Matt S

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

OK. I guess I am fine with the bounce messages. Any other opinions? Ralph > On Mar 18, 2017, at 8:42 AM, Matt Sicker wrote: > > I got this response from Gavin: > > Hi [~jvz] Sorry but I think I'm going to push back on that last request. > > Merging the lists - no problem > Merging all the sub

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

I got this response from Gavin: Hi [~jvz] Sorry but I think I'm going to push back on that last request. Merging the lists - no problem Merging all the subscribers - no problem Creating bounce messages directing people to use the merged target list - no problem People will know in advance this m

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Oh, I didn't realise I had a response on how to handle that. Let me follow up with infra. On 16 March 2017 at 21:46, Ralph Goers wrote: > Is there any follow-up to this? > > Ralph > > On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:30 PM, Ralph Goers > wrote: > > 1. That seems fine to me. > 2. Is it possible to do both?

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Is there any follow-up to this? Ralph > On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:30 PM, Ralph Goers wrote: > > 1. That seems fine to me. > 2. Is it possible to do both? I like the idea of annoying the sender but > still allowing the email to be sent. It would cool if it could even add > [list] to the start of

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

1. That seems fine to me. 2. Is it possible to do both? I like the idea of annoying the sender but still allowing the email to be sent. It would cool if it could even add [list] to the start of the subject line. 3. This is the main thing that needs to happen. Ralph > On Mar 12, 2017, at 7:49

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Some things: 1. Archives won't be merged. 2. Infra suggests it might be a better idea to have the old email addresses respond with a canned reply saying that the lists have moved over to dev@, though they can set it up all as aliases if we prefer. 3. Current subscribers from all dev lists would be

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Created a request, not sure if it's public: https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/INFRA-13651 On 12 March 2017 at 17:11, Ralph Goers wrote: > Yes, > > If you could send the request to infra I would appreciate it. > > Ralph > > On Mar 12, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Matt Sicker wrot

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Yes, If you could send the request to infra I would appreciate it. Ralph > On Mar 12, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Matt Sicker wrote: > > The vote has been open for 5 days now. Based on the tallies and discussions, > it sounds like we'd like to merge the dev lists but keep the user lists as > is. Shall

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

The vote has been open for 5 days now. Based on the tallies and discussions, it sounds like we'd like to merge the dev lists but keep the user lists as is. Shall we move forward with combining them now? On 10 March 2017 at 12:27, Dominik Psenner wrote: > Total agreement. > > On 10 Mar 2017 6:26

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Total agreement. On 10 Mar 2017 6:26 p.m., "Ralph Goers" wrote: > This is exactly why we need one dev list. These last two responses dropped > the other lists. This is a horrible way to have discussions that affect > all the sub projects. > > Ralph > > > On Mar 10, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Matt Sicker

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

This is exactly why we need one dev list. These last two responses dropped the other lists. This is a horrible way to have discussions that affect all the sub projects. Ralph > On Mar 10, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Matt Sicker wrote: > > I'd love to see more unified configurations in all the subproj

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

We had once the discussion that we wanted all Apache Logging projects to become very similar in their usage, starting with the same or a very similar configuration. Given that we should aim towards one Apache Logging specification and several Apache Logging specification implementations in the

RE: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

+1 From: Dominik Psenner [mailto:dpsen...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:45 AM To: Log4J Developers List ; Logging PMC ; Logging General ; Log4Net Developers List ; log4php-...@logging.apache.org; log4cxx-...@logging.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Guten Tag Ralph Goers, am Donnerstag, 9. März 2017 um 19:24 schrieben Sie: > We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that might > be of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these are just > release announcements. And "general-dev@" is not an option because one ca

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that might be of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these are just release announcements. Ralph > On Mar 9, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker wrote: > > Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it doesn't

Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it doesn't cause any issues currently. The main idea here is whether we should merge the dev lists into one, or if we need a common dev list for all devs to subscribe to (general@ doesn't sound appropriate, but I don't know what that list is

[Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

You should note that while we consider all votes only PMC votes are “binding”. I don’t think that changes much however. From a PMC perspective I have to say that keeping the user’s lists separate isn’t likely to be an issue as most of the things that would need to be discussed would be on a dev

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

The votes are way too scattered over the different mailing lists so that I didn't even find my own vote. ;-) Therefore I'm trying to summarize the current state of the vote: log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ ->d...@logging.apache.org Matt Sicker: +1 Ralph Goers: +1 Stefan Bo

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Guten Tag Apache, am Mittwoch, 8. März 2017 um 13:38 schrieben Sie: > The reason for doing this is a result of the last board meeting. > The PMC had to discuss something on the private mailing list simply > because PMC members don't subscribe to every list, nor do they want > to, so it was not pos

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

Based on the voting so far, it looks like merging user lists isn't desired. I'm cool with that, so I'll -1 the user list merge as well. I'm still +1 for merging developer lists unless someone has a better idea. We shouldn't have to rely on the private list for public discussions. On 8 March 2017 a

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

The reason for doing this is a result of the last board meeting. The PMC had to discuss something on the private mailing list simply because PMC members don't subscribe to every list, nor do they want to, so it was not possible to have the discussion on the correct mailing list. Ralph > On Mar

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

On 2017-03-08, Matt Sicker wrote: > I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to half > of them less than five minutes ago. > This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services mailing lists. > The proposal is to combine them as follows: > log4j-dev@, log4php-dev

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

No wait, the lazy voting thing at Commons is just the same form we use for code, just with an email plus a 72 hour notice. Makes sense for repository changes since those are a pain to reverse once the format is changed to git. On 7 March 2017 at 23:07, Matt Sicker wrote: > The -1 thing is mentio

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

The -1 thing is mentioned here regarding a -1 being a veto for anything consensus-related (generally anything to do with adding or removing committers/PMCs). I suppose in that context, a mailing list change probably falls under lazy majority, though what

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

+1 Note that generally a -1 is a veto only on code commits. On everything else it just means you are against the proposal. However, we generally strive for consensus so great weight is given to binding votes that are opposed. Ralph > On Mar 7, 2017, at 9:23 PM, Matt Sicker wrote: > > This is

Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

This is my +1. If this is the incorrect voting format and we need to do a 2/3 majority instead, please veto this and let me know. This situation is not spelled out in the bylaws. On 7 March 2017 at 22:20, Matt Sicker wrote: > I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to

[VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to half of them less than five minutes ago. This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services mailing lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows: log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> d...@logging