Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April

[Mark Fowler]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote:

> As usual I'll aim at having four or five lightning talks and two or three
> longer talks.

I could do a lightening talk on playing around with skinning stuff with
Template Toolkit's brand spanking new VIEW directive.  This would be very
quick as we've seen Andy do this kind of thing before in the pre-release
version.  I'd be skinning XML again in my example, but this time I'd be
using XML::XPath...

I'll also be able to give a quick status update on the website for NMS
(probably at the same time as I'll be using it as my example)

Later.

Mark.

(Who thinks this is almost a show 'n' tell situation)

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

Re: Perl on HPUX

[Dean]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:54:54PM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
> http://cpan.valueclick.com/ports/#hpux

The http://hpux.connect.org.uk/ site looks like a good resource if a little
behind.

> http://lists.perl.org/showlist.cgi?name=perl-hpux
> could also use some life :)

Not another mailing list... You can't make me! I'm only moving some Linux
scripts across to HPUX so i doubt I'd be much use on the list. The error
threw me since i'm too new to this to know Perl 4.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon

RE: Installing Perl/Tk on Win32

[Andrew Bowman]

> From: Barbie [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> Installing CPAN modules requires that you have Microsoft DevStudio or
> nmake.exe installed.  If you are installing modules that contain xs files,
> then you need DevStudio, otherwise you only need nmake.exe.
> 
> You can download nmake from
>
http://download.microsoft.com/download/vc15/Patch/1.52/W95/EN-US/Nmake15.exe
> . Run the self-extracting exe and copy nmake.exeto the perl\bin directory.
> 

Thanks for the tip. I tried this before bothering the list with my query
(which was itself rendered redundant with the helpful suggestion of
ActiveState's ppm's).

I didn't put the MS nmake in the perl\bin dir (this doesn't strike me as
significant). When I ran it it chuntered away happily on the Tk makefile for
a while, and then stopped, looking for a program called 'cl' - presumably a
c linker. There are 25 xs files in the Tk distribution, so I guess this is
where that approach went wrong.

Thanks again all,

Andrew.

Re: Wavelan

[Robin Szemeti]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, you wrote:

> > http://www.expansys.com/category.asp?cat=WIREL claim delivery 3 days,
> > but whether they are what you want or how their prices compare I have no idea.
> > (Cheap & efficient when I bought my Psion netBook some time ago.)

> I'll phone em in the morning ...

'Hello there .. have you got any .. blah'  ..'let me just check ... no ..
we'd have to get them from our suppliers ..' 'OK .. how long will that
take?' 'it depends if they have any in stock themselves ...' 'OK have
they got any in stock then' 'I don;t know sir, I'd have to ask my
colleague'   'err are you going to ask your colleague then?' 'he
might not know either sir' 

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!

NWS (was Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April)

[Struan Donald]

* at 11/04 08:28 +0100 Mark Fowler said:
> On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote:
>
 

 
> I'll also be able to give a quick status update on the website for NMS
> (probably at the same time as I'll be using it as my example)

what is the status of the NMS thing. i'm liable to have some spare time
over the weekend so if there's anything that needs doing on this i could
have a bash.

struan

Re: NWS (was Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April)

[Mark Fowler]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Struan Donald wrote:
  
> > I'll also be able to give a quick status update on the website for NMS
> > (probably at the same time as I'll be using it as my example)
> 
> what is the status of the NMS thing. i'm liable to have some spare time
> over the weekend so if there's anything that needs doing on this i could
> have a bash.

Just to preempt all I was going to say next technical meeting ;-)

Website is going fairly well, if not slowly.  The backend bits for
churning out the HTML are nearly done (or will be nearly done by the time
the technical meeting.)  I'm trying to get it so that we only have a
few core files to maintain (perhaps only one or two a script) and
that everything else is automagic. 

For the design itself: Celia did some rough plans for how the site should
function (with justifications) and I've been playing around with these and
trying to implement them.  I'm not going to make it very pretty, but I
will make it so that it's easy to prettify it at a later date altering
the templates behind it.

Here a list of things that could do with being done if anyone's got some
spare time:

 1) Come up with a name.  Something that isn't Not Matt's Scripts.

 2) Come up with a logo that will go at the top of the page.  Currently
we're trying for a vaguely corporate look to the whole thing.  I was 
thinking something like a Bodoni version of the name (but not that 
because that's been done to death)

 3) Write a set of scripts that are all basically the same but have
different #!/usr/bin/perl lines on the top and tell you the
information that you might need to know about the server.  For example
what version of perl you're running, what the current working
directory is, what the permissions on the directories are, etc, etc.
 
 4) Install Apache::Template, Bundle-XML, Template Toolkit 2.02 on penderel 
I think this has already been mostly done, but I could be wrong.

 5) Write some step by step instructions for installing this stuff on
Windows because I have no idea how to do this.  Simon B, you agreed to
do this right?

 6) Stop inviting me to the pub when I should be doing work.

Later.

Mark.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

Re: OT: parsing xml

[Leon Brocard]

Mike Jarvis sent the following bits through the ether:

> Has anybody dealt with the data exchange xml standard called BMEcat?
> I've got to hack a parser together quickly and I was hoping to nick
> somebody else's code.

It appears that no-one has answered this. In general, I find
XML::Simple very useful (and simple!) for dealing with XML data
structures. If you need anything more fancy, look into
XML::XPath. Always remember to cache aggressively whenever you use
XML.

HTH, Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/

... All in a day's work for..."Confuse-a-Cat"!

Re: Tie::Scalar::Decay ...

[Tony Bowden]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 10:41:51PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> > Didn't Tony from Blackstar do this already?  
> Yes, but a) he never released it on CPAN

At the time I was under a contract which didn't let me do this...

I should really upload some stuff now ...

Tony
-- 
--
 Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/
  epiphany just went to ground, 3 wise men just can't be found
--

 PGP signature

London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09

[Leon Brocard]

This is the twelth of hopefully many weekly summaries of the London
Perl Mongers mailing list. For the week starting 2001-04-09:

Don't forget the London.pm website for meetings etc. The next meeting
is a technical meeting and is on Thursday April 19th at State 51:
http://london.pm.org/

Neil Ford obviously gets too much mail as he asked about scripts to
help with breaking up mailbox files. Jonathan Stowe mentioned Graham
Barr's mailtools, and Simon Cozens plugged his excellent Mail::Audit:
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04055.html
http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=MailTools
http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Mail-Audit

Andy Williams confused us all with traceroute, until we read the
manpage that is. Dominic Mitchell recommended "TCP/IP Illustrated,
Volume 1: The Protocols", which is excellent indeed:
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04094.html
http://www.kohala.com/start/tcpipiv1.html

Amongst a HTML- and uuencoded-email fest, Dominic Mitchell and Merijn
Broeren gave mutt and mailcap tips for viewing HTML emails:
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg03987.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04140.html
http://www.mutt.org/

The social meeting last week was a lot of fun, if a little
crazy. However, we really need to start organising the meetings (hey,
even Lonix is more organised!), as it was too loud and crowded:
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04134.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04145.html

Robert Shields asked about copyright and licenses for his Perl code,
which launched into the typical "GPL evil", "BSD good", "but GPL gives
back" , "write your own license", "GPL is unenforcable"
thread. Generally Perl code is distributed under the sames terms as
Perl itself, that is dual GPL and AL:
http://www.opensource.org/
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
http://language.perl.com/misc/Artistic.html

Aaron Trevena announced a piece of Perl which creates UML class
diagrams showing relationshiops, methods, attributes, etc for a bunch
of scripts/modules so that you can edit them with dia:
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04227.html
http://www.gnome.org/gnome-office/dia.shtml

Dean Wilson asked about Perl on HPUX and the error: 'syntax error in
file p2.pl at line 2, next 2 tokens "use strict"'. This is a clear
case of Perl 4 being installed when you expected Perl 5. There's been
some talk on how Perl 6 might avoid this mess:
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04231.html

Dave Cantrell announced that he had uploaded Tie::Scalar::Decay to
CPAN, which simulates radioactive decay with a fairly arbitrary
half-life of five seconds. Anyone want some PDP-11s?
http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Tie-Scalar-Decay
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04250.html
http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/

And finally, Simon Cozens reckons Italy is very far for antipasti,
Paul Makepeace finds truth in Duke Nukem, and Jonathan Stowe brings
some poetry to the list:
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04131.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04171.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg04033.html

Note that you can now subscribe just to this summary, if you don't
want the hassle of tons of london-list mail but still want to keep up:
http://www.astray.com/mailman/listinfo/london-list-summary

I'm away snowboarding next week (well, okay, hurting myself trying out
all those moves I pulled off in SSX) so Simon Wistow will take over
the summary and hopefully do another wonderful job ;-), Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/

... Squeeze

Re: Tie::Scalar::Decay ...

[David Cantrell]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 05:00:54PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:

> Cool Uses For Technology #497: Hmm, triggered on first access would
> be interesting too. That way you could put an object wrapper around
> the sinking platforms in Manic Miner.

but, to be *really* evil ...

Use Tie::Array::blah to implement functions which take more than one
parameter.  Overload the stringify operator to make it easy to get the
result.  You could even define tied arrays which do matrix things.
There wouldn't be much point to this.

I'm wittering, so shall stop now.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

This is a signature.  There are many like it but this one is mine.

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **

RE: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09

[dcross - David Cross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:00 PM

> The social meeting last week was a lot of fun, if a little
> crazy. However, we really need to start organising the meetings (hey,
> even Lonix is more organised!), as it was too loud and crowded:

Not sure I like the idea of 'organised' social meetings. Sounds a bit too
'SPUG' to me. However, I'm quite happy to listen to any alternative
opinions.

> Note that you can now subscribe just to this summary, if you don't
> want the hassle of tons of london-list mail but still want to keep up:
> http://www.astray.com/mailman/listinfo/london-list-summary

Have you submitted this to the Perl mailing lists list at
?

Dave...

-- 


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Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09

[Dean]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:00:16PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> crazy. However, we really need to start organising the meetings (hey,
> even Lonix is more organised!), as it was too loud and crowded:

You have a weird idea of organized ;)

We tried to get 60 people into 30 places...
 
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09

[Leon Brocard]

dcross - David Cross sent the following bits through the ether:

> Not sure I like the idea of 'organised' social meetings. Sounds a bit too
> 'SPUG' to me. However, I'm quite happy to listen to any alternative
> opinions.

Well, we *could* have a formal agenda for the social meeting, starting
off my voting in the new social meeting committee, and voting for how
many beers we will drink in the first hour (and what muffins to
supply)... BUT:

We have to book a room. Not doing so is silly, considering 30 or so
people turned up and we only had one table. I blame mstevens ;-) Where
will the next social be? Book the room now!

Leon

ps apologies, I'm still jumpy from a hot thai curry
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/

... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

Re: Perl on HPUX

[Elaine -HFB- Ashton]

Dean [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth:
*>
*>The http://hpux.connect.org.uk/ site looks like a good resource if a little
*>behind.

What part of HP-UX didn't scream 'behind' :)

*>Not another mailing list... You can't make me! I'm only moving some Linux
*>scripts across to HPUX so i doubt I'd be much use on the list. The error
*>threw me since i'm too new to this to know Perl 4.

Sadly, the list isn't terribly active but, depending on the platform,
vendor specific lists can be very useful in such situations.

e.

Linux::Svgalib

[Jonathan Stowe]

A couple of people have made interested noises about this - I have
uploaded an alpha version to CPAN (dont be misled by the version number)
if you want to have alook its at :

http://cpan.valueclick.com/modules/by-authors/id/J/JS/JSTOWE/Linux-Svgalib-1.2.t
ar.gz

I wouldnt suggest running on your most popular server though ...

/J\

RE: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09

[dcross - David Cross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:39 PM

> dcross - David Cross sent the following bits through the ether:
> 
> > Not sure I like the idea of 'organised' social meetings. Sounds a bit
too
> > 'SPUG' to me. However, I'm quite happy to listen to any alternative
> > opinions.
> 
> Well, we *could* have a formal agenda for the social meeting, starting
> off my voting in the new social meeting committee, and voting for how
> many beers we will drink in the first hour (and what muffins to
> supply)... BUT:

:)

> We have to book a room. Not doing so is silly, considering 30 or so
> people turned up and we only had one table. I blame mstevens ;-) Where
> will the next social be? Book the room now!

Booking a room is a good idea, but whenever we've tried this before pubs
have been loathe to give space to such a small group. David Cantrell once
wasted most of an afternoon calling pubs. If anyone has any suggestions for
venues that would allow us to book a room, please let us know. If anyone
wants to volunteer to try to organise this for next month then I'm sure
we'll all be very grateful.

Blaming mstevens is a good idea too. He's gone very quiet. I reckon he's
embarassed :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
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Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09

[Neil Ford]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:17:37PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
> From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:00 PM
> 
> > The social meeting last week was a lot of fun, if a little
> > crazy. However, we really need to start organising the meetings (hey,
> > even Lonix is more organised!), as it was too loud and crowded:
> 
> Not sure I like the idea of 'organised' social meetings. Sounds a bit too
> 'SPUG' to me. However, I'm quite happy to listen to any alternative
> opinions.
> 
SPUG don't have organised social meetings, every meeting is a technical
meeting.

I think what Leon was refering to, was getting organised of finding a good
reliable venue.

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com

Re: NWS (was Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April)

[jo walsh]

>  4) Install Apache::Template, Bundle-XML, Template Toolkit 2.02 on penderel
> I think this has already been mostly done, but I could be wrong.

after much grappling with CPAN shell trying to upgrade us to 5.6.1,
this is all done now, though a couple of newer versions of XML modules -
not the crucial ones - failed tests, i didn't want to force. let me know
if there's anything you want or need missing,

jo

TPJ Reborn

[dcross - David Cross]

Excellent news from Jon Orwant at



Dave...

-- 


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RE: TPJ Reborn

[James . Herbert]

++ 

:p

-Original Message-
From: DCROSS 
Sent: 11 April 2001 16:46
To: london-pm
Cc: DCROSS
Subject: TPJ Reborn



Excellent news from Jon Orwant at



Dave...

-- 


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RE: TPJ Reborn

[Paul Mison]

On 11/04/2001 at 16:50 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>++
>
>:p

If you're going to do IRC style karma-ing, at least make sure there's a
bot present. (I'm not even going to mention the smiley. Damn.)

And in other news, davorg himself gets a mention on use.perl.org for
finding (linking? sending in?) the article on Simon Cozen's Parrot
groundwork. Nice one, nominal leader.

--
:: paul
:: despair.com

Re: TPJ Reborn

[Leon Brocard]

Paul Mison sent the following bits through the ether:

> If you're going to do IRC style karma-ing, at least make sure there's a
> bot present

... and before someone magically has enough time to link dipsy to
email, no email bots please! ;-)

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/

... (A)bort (R)etry (C)ut Your Throat.

Re: Perl on HPUX

[Dean]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 08:58:55AM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
>What part of HP-UX didn't scream 'behind' :)

The price tag ;)

>Sadly, the list isn't terribly active but, depending on the platform,
>vendor specific lists can be very useful in such situations.

But do they have Buffy discussions ? Or Grep ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon

Re: TPJ Reborn

[Greg McCarroll]

* Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Paul Mison sent the following bits through the ether:
> 
> > If you're going to do IRC style karma-ing, at least make sure there's a
> > bot present
> 
> ... and before someone magically has enough time to link dipsy to
> email, no email bots please! ;-)
> 

I guess i'll unsub then

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: TPJ Reborn

[jduncan]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:28:38PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> * Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Paul Mison sent the following bits through the ether:
> > 
> > > If you're going to do IRC style karma-ing, at least make sure there's a
> > > bot present
> > 
> > ... and before someone magically has enough time to link dipsy to
> > email, no email bots please! ;-)
> > 
> 
> I guess i'll unsub then

further evidence (scribble scribble)


 PGP signature

stocks

[Greg McCarroll]

Does anyone use any online brokers that they would recommend? I need
a broker service which is quick and hassle free to set up.


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: TPJ Reborn

[David Cantrell]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:10:12PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> Paul Mison sent the following bits through the ether:
> 
> > If you're going to do IRC style karma-ing, at least make sure there's a
> > bot present
> 
> ... and before someone magically has enough time to link dipsy to
> email, no email bots please! ;-)

Sorry, ol bean, I'm already piping this list through two bots (my archiver
and my URL-hunter).  They don't say anything in public though.  Yet.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

This is a signature.  There are many like it but this one is mine.

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **

Re: TPJ Reborn

[Dominic Mitchell]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:44:57PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> Sorry, ol bean, I'm already piping this list through two bots (my archiver
> and my URL-hunter).  They don't say anything in public though.  Yet.

You could make them auto-send a rude message on encountering
text/html...

-Dom

Re: TPJ Reborn

[Greg McCarroll]

* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:10:12PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> > Paul Mison sent the following bits through the ether:
> > 
> > > If you're going to do IRC style karma-ing, at least make sure there's a
> > > bot present
> > 
> > ... and before someone magically has enough time to link dipsy to
> > email, no email bots please! ;-)
> 
> Sorry, ol bean, I'm already piping this list through two bots (my archiver
> and my URL-hunter).  They don't say anything in public though.  Yet.

point of order - they are filters, not bots

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: TPJ Reborn

[Struan Donald]

* at 11/04 17:50 +0100 Greg McCarroll said:
> * David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:10:12PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> > > Paul Mison sent the following bits through the ether:
> > > 
> > > > If you're going to do IRC style karma-ing, at least make sure there's a
> > > > bot present
> > > 
> > > ... and before someone magically has enough time to link dipsy to
> > > email, no email bots please! ;-)
> > 
> > Sorry, ol bean, I'm already piping this list through two bots (my archiver
> > and my URL-hunter).  They don't say anything in public though.  Yet.
> 
> point of order - they are filters, not bots

point of information: isn't that a point of information?

struan

Re: stocks

[Robert Shiels]

I use stocktrade.co.uk who are OK, it must have been easy to set up, as I
managed it.

I've known other people to use etrade.

Do you want to trade on foreign markets? If you do then you should check
that this is possible with whoever you go with.

Got any good tips :)
--
Robert


- Original Message -
From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "London.pm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11 April 2001 17:42
Subject: stocks


>
>
> Does anyone use any online brokers that they would recommend? I need
> a broker service which is quick and hassle free to set up.
>
>
> --
> Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
>
>

Re: TPJ Reborn

[Paul Makepeace]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 05:50:33PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> point of order - they are filters, not bots

Isn't that two points? And is a line the shortest distance between them?

P

Re: TPJ Reborn

[Andrew Bowman]

From: "Paul Makepeace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > point of order - they are filters, not bots
>
> Isn't that two points? And is a line the shortest distance between them?

Point of yet further pedantry: I think you mean a directed line segment that
intersects two points...

Andrew.