Re: Maths Problem

2001-06-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 12:01:05AM +0100, Chris Benson wrote:
Mmmm, so if there are 3 water lilies with circular leaves, what is the
largest they can grow on the surface of a sphere without overlap?  
On a circle it's easy to see it's just less than the radius of the 
circle.  Not so easy with a sphere.

Looks like evenly-spaced around the equator. With only three points,
they'll _have_ to be coplanar by definition. And, of course, a belt
of n points around the equator is even spacing, but doesn't look good...

Roger



Re: Government Websites

2001-06-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 11:41:57AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:

Users will say: I don't have Flash and don't want to download it.
Therefore, I should leave out the Flash bits of the site. Users will say: I
read that JavaScript can expose security holes, so I'll turn it off.
Therefore, I will make all my navigation work without JavaScript turned on.

Sounds like a good idea to me so far.

Users will say: Ooh! Shiny!.

R



Re: Templating Solutions

2001-06-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 04:36:00PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

First, are there any others that I should look at? Also I'd really like
any objective input people have about templating with these modules. It
is important to me to try and not just get the article done and dusted,
but for once to write a piece of text that I am happy with.

Key distinction is: what sort of code is going into the page? Is it 
something fairly basic (H::T, T::T in some ways of using it) or 
something closer to actual perl? (In the latter case, of course, it is 
Evil, because it removes any possibility of separation of code and 
data - you might as well be writing PHP.)

The main reason I prefer H::T to T::T is that H::T templates can be
given to Dreamweaver monkeys to edit without my having to worry that
they'll screw them up.

Roger



Re: Templating Solutions

2001-06-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 06:30:24PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
Simon Wilcox wrote:
 I avoided HTML::Embperl, HTML::Mason  Apache::ASP because they all
 embed perl into the template which is a Bad Thing (tm).

Why is that so evil?

I'm willing to be enlightened here.

Separation of code and data - or in this case, layout, content
and logic. You can have multiple template files (say, for HTML,
WAP, I-mode, and whatnot) while keeping a single, fairly simple
program as the back-end (which doesn't need to know what sort of
platform it's filling in a template for, just which template file
to load).

Roger



Re: Maths Problem

2001-06-17 Thread Roger Burton West

On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 06:52:04PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

Ok, now how can you distribute N points around the origin in _3_ dimensions,
again all of them at the same distance from the origin? Obviously
there will be an imaginary sphere again, but where do you put the points.

Best general treatment of this I've seen is at
http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/known-math/index/spheres.html

which has the summary:

* uniformly distributed has more than one meaning;
* for most n there is no answer which is particularly elegant;
* quick-and-dirty approximations are easy.

R



Re: *Buffy's Not Included

2001-06-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:01:33AM +0100, Robert Thompson typed:
CSV is an option - except that an awful lot of the data will need to be
escaped out before it goes into the file, and I would rather only have to do
when its rendered out to the browser.

DBD::CSV is your friend. Sits on top of Text::CSV_XS and gives you a
basic SQLish interface.

Roger



Re: downloady filenames

2001-06-12 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 09:10:32AM +0100, Robin Szemeti typed:
someone somewhere a few weeks ago posted something about an extra line
you could put not dissimilar to 'Apparent-filename: something.xyz' .. its
not so much a mime types thing but a browser thing .. 

Content-Disposition.

R



Re: M$ SQueaLServer

2001-06-07 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 04:58:11PM -0700, Paul Makepeace typed:

At the end of the day, the simple fact is that Windows 2000 crashes more
frequently than *n[ui]x does -- this surely is unquestioned fact.

Bear in mind also this item from Monday's RISKS (21.44):

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 12:20:53 +0400 (MSD)
From: Oleg Broytmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Insurer considers Microsoft NT high-risk

[...] An insurance company has started to charge 5-15% more if you use
Windows NT as a base for Internet services:

  We saw that our NT-based clients were having more downtime due to
  hacking, says John Wurzler, founder and CEO of the Michigan company, which
  has been selling hacker insurance since 1998.  Wurzler said the decision
  to charge higher premiums was not mandated by the syndicates affiliated
  with Lloyd's of London that underwrite the insurance he sells.  Instead,
  the move was based on findings from 400 security assessments that his firm
  has done on small and midsize businesses over the past three years.
  Wurzler found that system administrators working on open-source systems
  tend to be better trained and stay with their employers longer than those
  at firms using Windows software, where turnover can exceed 33 percent per
  year.  http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2766045,00.html

Oleg Broytmann  http://phd.pp.ru/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Re: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)

2001-06-07 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:40:20AM +0100, Robin Szemeti typed:

I just dont get why they wont release specs .. surel;y the plan is to
sell as many memory sticks as possible? ..or hav I missed someting?

Yup. The plan is (a) not to get kicked out of bed by MS and (b) not to
have cheap memory-stick-compatible devices (cf Apple clones).

R



Re: tape changes

2001-06-04 Thread Roger Burton West

On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:04:46PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:

is 15 quid a shot
cheap  [  ]
normal [  ]
expensive  [  ]
for lobbing a dat tape into a box and slinging in a new one?

It's not Telehouse prices, but it sounds expensive to me.

R



Re: crazy golf

2001-06-01 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:27:44PM +0100, Paul Mison typed:

(Isn't
there an extra bank holiday next year for Golden Jubilee shenanigans?)

http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/bankhol.htm



Re: General Election

2001-06-01 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 02:39:03PM +0100, David Cantrell typed:

Pah!

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!

Humbug!

The people's flag is black as night
From top to bottom, left to right.
What better symbol for our cause
Then torn umbrellas, old black drawers,
And Guinness, gowns and pirate flags
Darth Vader's cloak and oily rags:
Oh, wave it proudly o'er your head,
The flag that's better dead than red!



Re: Windows Perl - how?

2001-05-31 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:37:22PM +0100, Mark Fowler typed:

I seem to remember downloading an .exe last week (which I no longer have
and no longer seems to be where it was on thier site.)  Are they randomly
switching between MSI and .exe and haven't bothered to upload the
installer when they switched back.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePerl/Requirements

gives download sites from MS for 9x and NT.

Roger



Re: Windows Perl - how?

2001-05-31 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, May 31, 2001 at 01:07:31PM +0100, Greg McCarroll typed:

yip i've seen this format as well, does anyone know what advantages it
has? does it enforce any standards for the software? is it just a M$ 
ploy to control the standard install packages?

I'll take option C for six million dollars, Bob...

It makes a certain amount of sense. Rather than having to distribute
an installer program with every package, have a standard installer
program that you only need to download once.

Copying files, of course, is _much_ too difficult.

R



Re: MIME stuff - Am I missing something?

2001-05-22 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:48:17PM +0100, Robert Thompson typed:

Open up the file, read in the first few bytes and grab the magic number.
Most types of binary file have a marker of some kind to designate what they
are. Any half decent book on graphics programming should be able to tell you
what the magic numbers are for the main graphics types.

man 1 file
man 5 magic
less /usr/share/misc/magic # on many systems

Roger



Re: Election Manifestos

2001-05-22 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:02:33PM +0100, Simon Wistow typed:
According to the Register ...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/19112.html

the Tory's want to repeal IR35, make RIPA less strict and speed up Local
Loop unbundling, whereas Labour want to introduce laws meaning that if
you pretend to be a teenager on the Net you can be jailed for 5 years
(bad luck bK).

Being that most of the people here seem to be more Left than right
(especially the contarctors) how do you lot feel about this.

How about don't believe a word of it, anything said between now
and the election is purely an attempt to woo gullible representatives
of special-interest groups?

Labour don't care about actual competent net users (who will probably
vote for them anyway, they reckon, and by last week's experience they
may be right) but want to look as if they regard crime as a bad thing
(still fighting the 1980s council stories, really); the Conservatives
reckon that people who want politicians to do something about crime will
vote for them anyway, but that competent net users might be wooed.

Roger



Re: Election Manifestos

2001-05-22 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, May 22, 2001 at 05:23:32PM +0100, Cross David - dcross typed:

I've not actually seen the manifesto, but from what I'm told it really means

If you can't be bothered to take a few minutes to look, why the hell are
you posting about it? The actual text is:

A future Conservative Government will repeal IR35 and replace it with 
legislation that addresses genuine abuses.

In other words, it'll be in the pockets of whichever lobby group pays
them most at the time, just as the Labour one was.

The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

And get a shell account, why don't you?



Re: [OT] Cordelia (was Re: They are all vampires!)

2001-05-21 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, May 21, 2001 at 05:09:50PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson typed:

Ah, an excellent typo consisting of one additional character, one omitted character, 
and a transposed pair. I shall put it in my collection. I should say by the look of 
it, this one was speed induced.

Goes off to start new thesis on typographical errors to be presented at the ICA.

use Code::Approx;



Re: Some Northern Irish Fun and Games ...

2001-05-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:29:42AM +0100, Matthew Jones typed:

As far as it being sensual, that is not a word you would attribute to
country music. 

They obviously haven't been listening to The Archers recently.

R



Re: pc components

2001-05-17 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, May 17, 2001 at 10:57:23AM +0100, Greg McCarroll typed:

Does anyone have a recommendation for an online provider of PC components,
i'm looking for a couple of big hard drives (50Gb+).

I've had success with DABS - just make sure the thing's in stock before
ordering.

Roger



Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:45:45AM +0100, Matthew Jones typed:

I genuinely believe that the
public are sick of watching the NHS, education system etc wasting away on a
starvation diet and would be willing to pay a bit of extra tax to make sure
that their kids can get schooled and that their sick can be healed.

When have they ever been asked?

You want to reduce waiting lists and class sizes? It all costs, people.

Money isn't enough. America spends more on education per pupil than anywhere
else in the world - think that works?

Government-run projects don't work, even when they're heavily funded.

Roger



Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:04:52AM +0100, Matthew Jones typed:

 When have they ever been asked?
During elections. Like I say, in 1997, the UK voted in a party that was (I
reckon) seen as the guardian of the public services, the party that is
traditionally associated

In 1997 the UK voted against the Conservatives. The policies being offered
by the parties were close to identical.

 Money isn't enough. America spends more on education per 
 pupil than anywhere else in the world - think that works?
Yeah, but doesn't most of that go on flak jackets for the teachers? Heh,
seriously, though, money may not be enough, but that doesn't translate to
the education system doesn't need any more money.

How about stopping and thinking about it _before_ throwing money at it
just for a change, then?

 Government-run projects don't work, even when they're heavily funded.
That's an awfully sweeping statement to make.

Yes.

Governments never get value for money on anything they do. Discuss.

R



More politics (was Re: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:37:23AM +0100, Cross David - dcross typed:

Here's a pretty fundamental issue. Why do so many people seem to think that
low taxes are good?

Because many people think that they are better judges of how their own
money should be spent than the government (of whatever flavour) is.

I suspect that if they were allowed to choose _how_ money was spent (and
yes, I do know the arguments against this) they would be a lot more willing
to pay it.

Roger



Re: OT - Perl

2001-05-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:29:41AM -0500, will typed:
Has anyone seen some perl around here?  I thought I saw some earlier but it
sems to have gone now :-)

use Politics;
use Quantum::Superpositions;

(the rest I leave to your imagination)



Re: JAMES DUNCAN

2001-05-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:32:32PM +, Steve Mynott typed:
Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 If you really work for ebookers.com, why are you sending from a hotmail
 address?  It doesn't lend credence to your request to have somebody else
 unsubscribed from this list.
Actually it shows more clue than trying to use the average IT
supplied Exchange service (which may well be broken).

Yup, until I rebuilt ex-employer's email system about half the people
there were using hotmail instead. No client ever questioned this.

R



Re: JAMES DUNCAN

2001-05-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:54:26PM +0200, Niklas Nordebo typed:
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:50:53PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 It's crap, but... http://www.ecdl.com/
Isn't that more of a Microsoft Driving License?

You expected something else from politicians (granted, not professional
ones, but tech-managers acting as politicals) writing in 1997?

Roger



Re: putting escape characters in files

2001-05-11 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:48:41AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson typed:

You know, from the outside, Unix looks so well designed and clean and modern...

From the outside, Windows looks as if it works.

ObRant: computers and OSes in their current state are not consumer devices.
They're not sufficiently reliable or intuitive. Bad marketing has made
people think they need the things; most of them are wrong...

Roger



Re: putting escape characters in files

2001-05-11 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:37:20AM +0100, Struan Donald typed:

but then any reasonably flexible multi-purpose device is always going
to have a hard time being a consumer device as by it's nature it's
complex and trying to make complex things appear simple is very very
hard.

Yes.

Things like the Amstrad word-processor are what people really want.
(Just ask any secretary who was forced to upgrade from one to a PC.)

R



Re: putting escape characters in files

2001-05-11 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:32:33AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson typed:
Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 ObRant: computers and OSes in their current state are not consumer devices.
 They're not sufficiently reliable or intuitive. Bad marketing has made
 people think they need the things; most of them are wrong...
OK, so what does it take?

While using a computer is a skill considered harder than using a
washing machine or mowing a lawn, they're not ready.

Putting pretty interfaces on existing unstable systems does not
help to make them simpler...

R



Re: putting escape characters in files

2001-05-10 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, May 10, 2001 at 04:35:29PM +0100, Struan Donald typed:
kind of off topic but how do you get things like ^M and such like into
a file for, say, writing vi macros?

ctrl-x 0 d

but using it in a search/replace pattern is harder.

Roger



Re: Buffy musings ...

2001-05-09 Thread Roger Burton West

On Wed, 09 May 2001, you wrote:
I could get you one and deliver it to the
Pederels Oak for probably a hundred quid including transport.

Hmm. You just want us to get thrown out even more vehemently than last
time, don't you?

Roger



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-07 Thread Roger Burton West

On Sun, May 06, 2001 at 08:49:56PM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:

A cow-orker of mine had to be told that Spain was in Europe, not South
America.

Cue story about Spanish woman being turned away from the Hispanic
channel at US Immigration.

Roger



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Roger Burton West

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up
a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad
threading.

Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good...

Roger



Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?

2001-04-27 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:46:16AM -0700, Paul Makepeace typed:
Does anyone have any Real World experience with the speed-up (even
hand-wavy vague anecdotes) of using bind values v. reparsing the SQL
each time (for databases that support this obviously). Postgres and
Oracle I'm particularly interested in.

Oracle quite a bit - it parses the statement with placeholders and
does large amounts of cacheing. Definitely worth it if you're fiddling
with large dbs. For postgres it's a lot less important IME.

Roger



Re: JOB: Anyone interested

2001-04-17 Thread Roger Burton West

On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 10:11:47AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:

Warning - MSB used to have the reputation of being the biggest bunch of
cowboys in the recruitment industry. I wouldn't normally pass this on
but thought it might be of interest to some of the ex-Torrington people.

FYI this particular role wasn't available; they tried to put me up for
some other things but didn't even get as far as interviews.

Roger (now working elsewhere)



Re: [HELP] Traceroute

2001-04-05 Thread Roger Burton West

On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 10:33:19AM -0400, Andy Williams wrote:
Hi,

Can any one tell me what this traceroute actually means... it has me
completely confused (not that difficult actually!!)

Yup. The machines on hops 11-24 aren't answering the traceroute
packets, but are passing them on. Possibly a routeing loop if you'd
normally expect to see fewer hops there.

Roger (won't be along this evening, not getting paid for the last
month's work. Gizza job!)



Re: Crazy Idea

2001-04-04 Thread Roger Burton West

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:38:44AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

any you have the ``right'' attitude when it comes to beer and
explosives

http://firedrake.org/roger/fireworks/

'nuff said.

R



Re:

2001-04-04 Thread Roger Burton West

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 03:24:03PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:

Unfortunately, while the disclaimer came out fine, my mailer (MS Outlook)
displayed the real "body" (with your message) as an attachment.

That would be because it was sent uuencoded. I'm sure there's a reason
for this, but I don't care.

Roger



Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-28 Thread Roger Burton West

On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 12:04:05PM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:

Anyway, the whole 'numbers' thing is long over due to be replaced by
those new fangled 'letters'. Works for DNS...

Oh @deity, let's not do that. Consider the mess the WIPO's causing
now, and then think about competition for "good" phone names...

Roger



Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-26 Thread Roger Burton West

On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 05:19:12PM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote:
Just to let you all know I'm on the market again.

Me too. Looking for senior developer/senior unix admin (ideally a blend
of the two), permanent, London, no Windows. CV on request.

Roger



Re: Debian question ...

2001-03-22 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 01:43:28PM +, David Cantrell typed:
is there an easy way of getting a list of all the packages which are
currently installed?  I dislike dselect intensely, and the docs for 
dpkg et al don't say anything useful.

   To make a local copy of the package selection states:
dpkg --get-selections myselections

Roger



Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-20 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:40:18AM -0500, Dave Cross typed:

I really think I should drop the author a polite note offering him a 
patch or three.

s/entire_file/strftime/ ?

Roger



Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-20 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:24:38PM -0500, Chris Devers typed:

Would a CPAN replacement have to be "drop-in"? I can see the argument behind making 
replacements for MSA code be functionally identical in most visible ways, but when 
you're dealing with CPAN code, presumably, you're dealing with somewhat more savvy 
programmers that could handle having to tweak a few things to get a replacement up  
running. 

When you're dealing with the sort of programmers who would choose to use
this module in the first place...?

Roger



Re: Dedrat 7.0 and PGP

2001-03-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 01:58:14AM +, Robin Szemeti wrote:

the keyfile was an ascii armoured v6.5.8 keyfile, 1024 bit RSA  that I
got with pgp -kxa .. GPG said 'unrecognised key format' since one of the
things I need is for users to be able to export their public keys from
PGP then being able to use PGP keys is a must have.

AFAIR there may be some formats supported in one but not the other; I
thought this had been solved, though. Check out www.gnupg.org for more
info on the latest on this.

Roger




Re: Dedrat 7.0 and PGP

2001-03-17 Thread Roger Burton West

On Sat, Mar 17, 2001 at 02:01:11PM +, Robin Szemeti wrote:

I haven't considered the GPG option yet .. its going to be for a user
thing .. and PGP is more common .. I am right in thinking that GPG and
PGP are basically different and not interchangeable aren't I ?

No.

Itried
importing PGP keyfile into GOG and it didn;t like it.

Was it a PGP v2.x keyfile? v5.x and v6.x should (for the most part) work
reasonably well. That is rather the point of GPG.

If all else fails I'll jsut use GPG .. which will be a pain as Kmail (my
mailer) works nicely with PGP .. but not GPG as yet .. hmmmph

Search for pgpgpg; it's a wrapper to solve this problem.

Roger



Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-15 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 10:06:16PM +, Dominic Mitchell typed:
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:19:54PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
 Content-type: matter-transport/beer-stream
For the unenlightened, please consult the standards document:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/htbin/rfc/rfc1437.html

Actually, I think the precursor is at
http://www.illuminated.co.uk/humour/Beer.html

Roger



Re: Version control

2001-03-15 Thread Roger Burton West

On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 09:45:34PM -, Jim Gillespie wrote:

My main beef with CVS (and ClearCase) is that there doesn't seem to be any
way to access the release string programatically - I can tag all my source
as "FOO_R1-0" or whatever, but I can't tell from within the source that it
has been so tagged.  Unless someone knows different?

You can get the _numeric_ version tag with $Version: $ (or whatever it is),
in CVS at least, but I assume you already knew that.

You can't have the symbolic tag, because it's entirely possible to have
more than one symbolic tag applying to the same version of the source
code - say, the large static module that's not in a part of the tree that's
being worked on very much...

Roger



Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:34:32PM +, Jon Eyre typed:

is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows 
clients?

PuTTY.

my several users require them, or they'll just continue 
using ftp, because it's *easier*... People are lazy, and security 
measures which are a pain in the arse will fail to work because the 
users will bypass them (summarizing from Schneier's Secrets and Lies). 

Then you disable ftp and smb. (And telnet, of course.) "Sorry, we can't
use these because of the ban on plain-text passwords."

Roger



Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:00:22PM +, Greg McCarroll typed:
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 They won't if you stop running the ftp daemon on the server :)
Rule one of security:
   Ensure availability for authorised users

Rule zero of security:
   A system with no users is a system with no unauthorised users. For
extra points, turn it off.

Roger



Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Roger Burton West

On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:39:12PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:19:54PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
  Content-type: matter-transport/beer-stream
 Isn't that what happens in the bogs of Penderels Oak?
Is it just me who has noticed the similarities between
the bogs of Penderels Oak and the TARDIS?

Yes. Definitely. Just you. None of the rest of us has noticed anything
odd at all.

(phew)

Roger



Re: MSA rewrite project

2001-03-13 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 05:34:03PM +0100, Philip Newton typed:

Generally, @INC contains '.', so it should work (though remember that
Net::SMTP has to go into ./Net/SMTP.pm and not ./SMTP.pm or ./Net::SMTP.pm).
Otherwise, use lib '.' should be your friend.

I believe IIS does horribly evil things to the current execution
directory.

Roger



Talking about xs...

2001-03-12 Thread Roger Burton West

This strikes me as something that needs a perl module... anyone feeling
particularly bored and like playing with XS?

]librsync (http://freshmeat.net/projects/librsync/)
]  by Martin Pool (http://freshmeat.net/users/bootswork/)
]
]librsync makes the network-delta functions of the popular rsync file
]transfer tool available to other programs. librsync has a streaming
]interface similar to zlib, and is designed to be embedded into diverse
]network applications.

Roger



Re: Talking about xs...

2001-03-12 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 10:31:09AM +, Leon Brocard typed:

Roger Burton West sent the following bits through the ether:
 ]librsync (http://freshmeat.net/projects/librsync/)
I was *sure* something like this was already on CPAN[1]. H. I still
don't really see what advantages having this in Perl would give
you. What kind of applications were you thinking of?

Ones where (a) one doesn't want to shell out and create an extra process
or (b) one has control over the perl environment but not over the
general system to install rsync.

Roger



Re: Heretics' meeting

2001-02-28 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:16:17PM +, Struan Donald typed:

to be more helpful see above[1].
[1]: wondering how to make mutt do things in the right order when
replying to multiple posts.

Tag the posts you want, then reverse the sort order (shift-o whatsit).

Roger



Re: Heretics' meeting

2001-02-28 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 05:44:31PM +, Greg McCarroll typed:

someone simplified this to ...

   meetings are held on the day after the first wednesday of
   the month

Guilty. What can I say, it was my first meeting.

Roger



Re: Overheard on IRC

2001-02-27 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:46:18AM +, Simon Wistow typed:

yet another t-shirt idea methinks

any(@londonpm)

R



Re: geek cricket

2001-02-27 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 12:29:19PM +, Amias Channer typed:

Each company would have a team (or combine to make teams) and play 40 over
matches on sunday afternoons in some sort of league .
Does this appeal to anyone ? gambling is optional .

You mean... actual physical exertion?

Heretic!

R



Re: DMP

2001-02-20 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:26:02AM -, dcross - David Cross typed:

Nah. That's what it's said for the last two weeks. They haven't got round
changing it to '24 hours' yet.

Mine's "1 on hand", but there are other things in that order.

R



Re: Penderel Configuration

2001-02-15 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 03:26:27PM -, Robert Shiels typed:

I'd like to know which perl modules are already installed.

http://www.perlfaq.com/faqs/id/205

Roger



Re: Technical Meeting 22nd Feb

2001-02-13 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 04:50:40PM +, Matthew Robinson typed:

Here you go, directions to Torrington.  The address is:

Torrington Interactive
2 Printing House Yard
London
E2 7PR

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=533478Y=182733A=YZ=1

Printing House Yard is on the junction of Old Street, Shoreditch High St,
Hackney Road and Kingsland Road.  We are about 10-15 minutes walk from Old
St and Liverpool St tubes.

I have attached the official 'Directions to Torrington' PDF file.  However,
after 6:30 pm the gate on Hackney Road

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=533497Y=182730A=YZ=1

is closed and the only entrance is
through the back gates

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=533500Y=182818A=YZ=1

which are on Waterson St (the first road on the left
as you walk up Hackney Rd).

Roger



Re: irc problems

2001-02-01 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:31:16AM +, Michael Stevens typed:
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:28:37AM +, Neil Ford wrote:
 I can't get onto any of rhizomatic.net. Is anyone else having problems?
 Michael
 we're all there fine
 in actuall fact as I type this you've just appeared :-)

Having now got on I can state the problem was a complete inability to
get rhizomatic dns.

Still seeing that here. And oh dear:

roger@dayspring:~$ host -t ns rhizomatic.net|wc -l
  1

And whois gives:

   token.aliengods.com 199.245.105.172
   token.aliengod.com  199.245.105.171

Ahem. Didn't they learn _anything_ from Microsoft?

IRC's IP, anyone?

R



Re: Amazon Sales Rank

2001-02-01 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:39:08PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

Now if they'd just actually send me the copy I ordered...
(I think they said 3-5 weeks)

Ditto. It's one of the 9 things remaining before they ship my latest
order.

Roger



Re: London.pm nearly have a new server (fwd)

2001-01-30 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 02:11:41PM +0100, Philip Newton typed:

Granitecanyon? The boxes that are chronically down? Which resulted in me
getting mail from the domain registry telling me to get a working nameserver
up with thein week or they might yank the domain? Where noone seems to care
about support.

I haven't had any problems with them, but I don't use them as primaries.

Granitecanyon -- where You Get What You Pay For. IMO, at least.

What you get is redundancy in the DNS. If they're down, so what?

Roger



Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:07:02AM +, Michael Stevens typed:

I imagine you could get a pc service contract on the same level as
Sun do, but I have no experience in the area. Has anyone got any experience
paying vast amounts of money for PC support? did you get much for your
money?

Dell offer this on some of their servers. IMHO this is always a waste of
money - they don't provide anything that you couldn't do yourself by
having a stock of spare parts and someone competent on call.

OTOH, if you pay for the support, generally you get a machine that was
put together by someone who knew how it was supposed to go, rather than
the colour-blind monkeys they normally use.

R



Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:08:22PM -, Jonathan Peterson typed:

 And then people wonder why I like open source...
Even within OS software there's good support and bad support. There's plenty
of OS software that _doesn't_ have helpful user groups, and has very poor
documentation and so on.

Oh, agreed entirely. The key thing is that nobody _expects_ a professional
support service, so they're less disappointed when it doesn't happen.

R



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:31:28PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

I propose we drag these people and drop them in those big rubbish bins
you see outside offices.

DD is vaguely useful sometimes. Just not when I'm editing text.

Anyone played much with PowerArchiver? Freeware WinZip clone. Given
how many unregistered copies are floating around...

R



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:43:46PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

We need to just get on with using linux, and other sensible stuff, and
IF PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS then we can tell them about it. But we shouldn't 
try to promote it as what they want, because invariably they start going
"aargh, it' doesn't have all the shiny windows features, it must suck, and
you said it was good", whereas if they get interested in it themselves,
and come to you, you've made no promises so they can't be dissappointed.

OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
used more in the workplace. I dunno.

I think it's just like proactive evangelism vs "living a good life" -
when your box hasn't crashed six times today, and it's running a clone
of a production web site faster than the live box, and it's doing all
the monitoring for the company, and... people start to say "ooh, how can
I get some of that". This is a reaction that hitting them over the head
with Debian CDs rarely engenders (though it's fun anyway).

Roger



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-23 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 12:33:44PM +, Robin Szemeti typed:

there
is a whole class of clients so clueless (' I just want one of those
dot-com things') that you probably need another level of handholding ... 
they discuss the artistic and 'feelgood' bits of the project in as
precise terms as they can and then direct the XP team as the customers
representative. 

http://www.webreview.com/pub/2000/04/07/broken/index.html

Roger



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-23 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 01:09:40PM +, Robin Houston typed:

Did you mean
http://www.webreview.com/archives/broken/2000/04_07_00.shtml
?

Yes. Been a while since I looked at that one.

R



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-22 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 11:08:29PM +, Piers Cawley typed:

And if the Big Cheese does hand down decisions that override the
Minion then the contract between developer and client should stipulate
that the client pays for the wasted time.

Contracts _should_ say that the client pays for changes to what he
originally said he wanted. Sometimes they do. It's quite rare, in my
experience, for this payment actually to be demanded. (Usually some
excuse along the lines of "it's a big customer and we don't want to
annoy them".) This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness
in customer relations than I've ever seen - and if that firmness were
present, we wouldn't need XP anyway...

Roger



Re: Consultancy company- Where do you want to go?

2001-01-22 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 10:44:11AM +, Neil Ford typed:

That just has me conjering up images of turning up at a client site 
in a big black van (screeching tyres obligatory) and either leaping 
out laptops in hand or just unrollong some CAT5 and plugging into 
their network :-)

Wireless, shurely? Just drive by and connect to their LAN...

R



Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )

2001-01-21 Thread Roger Burton West

On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 08:37:02PM +, Kieran Barry wrote:

Yup. There isn't enough talent around, so people get promoted beyond
their competence. If you train your people they'll only leave.

The only way out of that cycle is to train in-house,
and treat people so well that they stay.

Which implies that hassling them if they don't work 70-hour weeks is
counterproductive. When I was looking for my current job, it took me
a week from starting to search to getting two decent offers; so I know
there's demand for people who can do what I do. In turn, my employers
know it too: which means our relationship is a lot more civilised than
it's been in other places where I worked.

I don't think training is related to leaving; people leave anyway,
all the time. Giving someone training might increase his market value,
but if your company isn't prepared to pay for that, why train him in
the first place?

Roger



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-20 Thread Roger Burton West

On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 10:28:13AM +, Piers Cawley wrote:

One customer. On site. Full time. Absolute honesty.

Nice idea if you have customers who can take the truth, and who know
when to shut up and let people get on with things. I'd like to see
it working, but I haven't yet.

R



Re: thoth

2001-01-19 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 01:35:32AM -0500, Mark Rogaski typed:

That would be c.l.p.m ... unless of course you aren't referring to Tom.

You weren't at the technical meeting last night, were you? This thoth
is a network monitoring system.

R



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:39:47AM -0500, Dave Cross typed:

It'll be purely for home use, so:

I'd use Debian 'cos I like it. Downside: latest versions of stuff
aren't usually available as packages. Upside: doesn't mess you about
the way the Windowsy distributions (RH, SuSE) do.

R



Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:37:27AM +, Steve Mynott typed:

RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine
systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are
doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful
programmers.

And competent *ix system builders/admins are about as easy to find as
clueful programmers. And certifications are about as useful in finding
them.

R



Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian

2001-01-18 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:28:13AM -0800, Paul Makepeace typed:

apt-get install libapache-mod-perl gets you the dynamic version -- is there a
particular advantage to having it statically built?

Want mod_perl and mod_ssl? Debian stable doesn't do this easily without
recompilation.

R



thoth

2001-01-18 Thread Roger Burton West

For the benefit of those who want to know more about thoth, the network
monitoring system I mentioned just now:

ftp://firedrake.org/thoth/
http://firedrake.org/thoth/

(there's even some documentation!)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] with subject subscribe to join the
development mailing list, current rather quiet...

Mail me privately for a URL of a working thoth installation.

Roger



The crack is very good today

2001-01-17 Thread Roger Burton West

Given an array full of data which need to be output as a CSV...

return join(',',map{defined$_?s/"/''/g+1?/,/?"\"$_\"":$_:0:''}@{$ar})."\n";

Roger



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Roger Burton West

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 08:34:21PM +, Tony Bowden wrote:

If you present the chart in a different format to how they did then
there's nothing they can do...

Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a
differing viewpoint.

Roger



Re: Teaching Java and Perl

2001-01-08 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 09:02:20AM -0500, Mark Rogaski typed:
An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: So really it's Pascal all over again - if you only teach them one
: language, it's what they'll always use. If you teach them two,
: they may just possibly see the similarities and start to generalise
: to the class of "programming languages in general"...
So, you learned with Perl, eh?

I had the massive advantage of not being _taught_ any language. With the
home computers I started on, the language they came with was what you got;
later on, I had a choice of languages, but by then I'd already met several
varieties of BASIC, BCPL and other things, so the idea of "the language
that is best for job A may not be best for job B" had already sunk in.

Programmers, by nature, tend to be able to
learn new languages when necessary.

Good ones, yes. I have worked with far too many people who only program
in Java because it's the only language they know; and their experience
of "learning a language" is being taught it at length, so the idea that
they could pick up another one in a few days is deeply scary to them.

Roger



Re: Technical Meeting

2001-01-05 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 12:07:01AM +, alex typed:

[better instructions soon, but it takes up most of rhoda street, bethnal
green, nearest tubes are old street, shoreditch, liverpool street and
bethnal green, or closest of all, bus route number 8]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear... that's about five minutes' walk from where
I'm working... expect a large Torrington contingent if I can persuade
them.

Roger



Re: FOOD

2001-01-04 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 11:25:42AM +, David Hodgkinson typed:

OK, Now I'm REALLY hungry. I'll be at the New World at one
O'Clock.

Are you going to set your machine's clock to the right time first?

Roger



Re: FOOD

2001-01-04 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 02:54:23PM -, Matthew Freake typed:

...and thinking about it, didn't the Wendy's on Shaftesbury Avenue used to
be a Taco Bell as well ?

I don't think so; there was one on the other side of Haymarket, though,
towards Leicester Square.

R



Re: blibble

2001-01-04 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 12:01:49AM +, Michael Stevens typed:
You know you're drunk when, faced with the problem of getting through
an underground ticket gate, you get out your house keys and start fiddling
with them looking for the right one.

Or when, faced with the problem of getting through your front door,
you reach by reflex for the Leatherman on your belt.

R



Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623

2001-01-02 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:44:20PM +, Mark Fowler typed:

4. Mission Impossible.

Only if you don't know or didn't like the original - or if you can have
your brain rewired so that you don't remember it.

R



Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623

2001-01-02 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 05:06:15PM +, Mark Fowler typed:
 4. Mission Impossible.
 Only if you don't know or didn't like the original - or if you can have
 your brain rewired so that you don't remember it.
I think you're missing the point.  M.I. is crap.  Don't even get me
started on M.I.2..  But you probably want to have seen it so that
you can get references.

Well, yes; but the thing is, while I might have enjoyed it as a crap
action film, that was spoiled for me because I liked the original MI.
I have no problem with crap action films. (Commando remains one of
my favourites.)

R



Re: Perl Geek Code

2001-01-02 Thread Roger Burton West

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 07:45:56PM +, David Hodgkinson wrote:
Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 06:28:29PM +, David Hodgkinson wrote:
  We're meeting on Thursday, right? 
 If we aren't I'm going to be getting pretty lonely drinking on my own...
I'll join you. Leo said he was coming too.

I may even make it this time.

R