[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Jurgen Frenz]

You're right Ron,

I didn't think the issue all the way to the end, I agree with your thoughts. 
Let's think of something else that still doesn't cost any money.

Best,
Jurgen


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, September 4, 2020 6:49 PM,  wrote:

> Jurgen,
>
> While I think Google Groups has good mechanisms for sharing ideas and content 
> (without algorithm-based interference like FB has)...and aside from Google's 
> business model of harvesting data for search purposes, etc., the bigger 
> practical issue would be setting up the group to comply with the GDPR and 
> CCPA's data protection and "right to be forgotten" requirements. Maintaining 
> consent, knowing where the data resides, and when it has been exfiltrated 
> become important under both, as email addresses and more data point become 
> classed as personal information under both. It can certainly be done 
> correctly, but needs considerable forethought, especially when a group has an 
> international membership base.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Banks
>
> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
> lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Jurgen Frenz
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 10:03 AM
> To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
> Cc: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
>
> As much as I share the privacy concerns with google I wonder if that is of a 
> major concern for our discussion about lute music. Fronimo uses google groups 
> and it never occurred to me that google hijacked posts for advertisement 
> purposes. Follow and log users, yes, but then again...
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Friday, September 4, 2020 2:13 PM, Martyn Hodgson 
> hodgsonmar...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: My web site

[Jurgen Frenz]

As much as I share the privacy concerns with google I wonder if that is of a 
major concern for our discussion about lute music. Fronimo uses google groups 
and it never occurred to me that google hijacked posts for advertisement 
purposes. Follow and log users, yes, but then again...




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, September 4, 2020 2:13 PM, Martyn Hodgson 
 wrote:

> Well said Ron,
> The lutelist format and its arrangement is clearly much more suited
> for the proper and serious, but still enjoyable, exchange of views and
> for sharing information. It may be seen by some as 'old fashioned'
> (and
> I'm not sure what this really means in this context anyway) but is this
> really a valid judgement for what it aims to do. The use of email etc
> allows
> slightly more considered communications than the need for adulation.
> It would be a backward step to employ a format which focuses primarily
> on social media, advertising and the number of hits, 'likes' and such
> like...
> MH
>
> On Friday, 4 September 2020, 13:02:17 BST, Ron Andrico
> praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>  I'm guessing that it was an oversight to copy the entire lutelist
>
>
> with
> this message thread, which shares some awkward ideas (and language).
> Nevertheless, the personalities involved need to understand that
> there
> abides an intelligent segment of participants on the lutelist who
> will
> never contribute on the Facebk platform. That particular platform
> is
> the opposite of how Wayne laid out and maintained the lutelist. The
> format (which I call MyFace because participants seem to care very
> little about what others post) is sufficient for trivia and vanity
> postings, but for musicians who want to promote themselves, Facebkactually 
> suppresses distribution of any post that emits even a whiff
> of
> commercial potential. The platform is focused on two primary
> objectives: 1) encouraging posters to reveal more information than
> they
> should, 2) monetizing said information in every and any way possible.
> Not the same as the lutelist, which, thanks to Wayne, has steadfastly
> embodied the outmoded egalitarian aspects of the internet. It is now
> a
> brave new world populated by the greedy and deceptive masquerading as
> old school free-culture types. Good luck with following up on your
> ideas, but don't be surprised if a large number of people choose to
> not
> participate in your scheme.
> RA
> From: [1]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
> <[2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of LSA Editor
>
>  <[3]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
>
>  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:56 PM
>  To: LSA President <[4]lutesocietyamericapresid...@gmail.com>;
>
>
> lutelist Net
> <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: My web site
>  Hi Cathy,
>  I am including Sean about your questions on the lutelist versus
>
>
> FB.
> Sean looks both them and Nig even more than I do, so can give you
> a
> better answer. Here are my sanswers:
> The lutelist is old-fashioned and it's biggest virtue is that we
> have
> access to people like Art Ness and Martin Shepherd to answer
> questions. It's vibe is a bit more toward the serious lute
> player,
> but
> the people are mostly patient with newbies with questions. It is
> not
> the place for promoting you CD or next concert.
> FB IS the place to promote anything and everything and I think
> Larry
> spends time getting rid of the messages that off topic. FB has a
> younger vibe - or maybe it had a younger vibe when it started. I
> hear
> it has been taken over by groups like the LSA and some musicians
> use
> it
> instead of a web page. FB can have pictures and mostly postings
> are
> very short.
> I don't think the lutelist needs much curating, at least not
> right
> now.
> We've had a couple of differences of opinion in the past, but
> nothing
> recently. Another big benefit for me is that people access the
> lutelist using their own emails and I can keep the email address
> for
> future contacts. The people there are a big source of additions
> to
> my
> lists of prospective LSA members. I can be the moderator for the
> lutelist until it's up and running and we find a good person to
> take
> the job over. We don't have the problem with the LL of every tom,
> dick
> and harry wanting to join it - it's more for the cognisenti.
> David
> Smith might be a good moderator - he's been on the LL for years.
> When I had an orpharion for sale on Wayne's list (and it wasn't
> selling) Wayne checked in with me to see if it was still for sale
> after
> about a year. This seems to me to be a small job that only needs
> looking at every few months. I think the other part of job is
> posting
> new instruments for sale.
> We would also need to make sure people know where to find both
> the
> LL
> and LFS lists - a few CC blitzes?, since people are used to going
> to
> his Dartmouth site and it will be linked on places like the ELS
> site.
> 

[LUTE] Re: future of the lute

[Jurgen Frenz]

I strongly believe that there is a tremendous potential for lute music in tiny 
locations - there is a concept of "living room concerts" for instance, 
expecting a small crowd. Also, lute music on the map of the music business is 
located in the alternative field, there are venues by all kinds of activists 
who deal in all kinds of non-mainstream music. We belong there, after all, What 
is wrong to play in a location today that yesterday saw a noise performance 
with mud throwing and the rest. We are just another kind of marginals, in a 
general sense.




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, August 28, 2020 7:18 PM, Is Milse Póg  wrote:

> That's true, but nowadays, concert halls are no longer the main way
> people enjoy music. The kind of late-18th/19th century logic that
> killed the lute isn't relevant to how we experience music anymore.
> As for the classical canon, let's just say that it isn't really
> mainstream anymore as well. The "graying" of classical music audiences
> (when it comes to concert-goers at least) isn't something unique to the
> early music and has been long notes by many classical musicians and
> enthusiasts. Maybe it doesn't signify the dying-out of this musical
> tradition and its instrument, but the dying-out of the way people used
> to enjoy it since the late 18th century - concert-going.
> So maybe the future isn't bleak for our favourite instrument, just
> different.
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2020, 05:32 Mark Probert, <[1]probe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, all.
> My $0.02. The lute died for a reason, and that reason hasn't really
> changed: it is not an instrument for modern concert halls. In
> addition,
> it isn't part of the "Classical Canon," being long dead when the
> early
> German musicologists did their thing. Which means it is, and will
> reamin, a niche instrument. Those of us who play it understand its
> beauty and subtlety, others may fall in love with it, but they will
> be
> few in number and odd in outlook.
> I don't think this is anything to worry about. Simply accept and
> keep
> playing. All this means is it is unlikely there will be too many
> factor
> lutes floating around, and I don't think that is such a bad thing.
> Otherwise life goes on...
> .. m.
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:probe...@gmail.com
> 2.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: future of the lute

[Jurgen Frenz]

It is my impression that there are quite a few outstanding young players who 
will continue the tradition of great lute playing. Names that immediately come 
to mind are Lukas Henning and Bor Zuljan. We should ask the teachers at the 
Schola in Basels what they think of young players. - Further, when you look at 
the "new members" section in the latest Lute News magazine by the British Lute 
Society there are quite a few Japanese sounding names - that indicates to my 
opinion a growing interest in lute music outside of Europe which is very 
encouraging.
Another thing is that amateurs who spend a lot of time and effort in 
transcribing lute music from manuscripts and hard-to-find prints into a modern 
typeset and put it for free online - Sarge Gerbode is doing outstanding work in 
this respect (and if you doubt his competency he also puts the faksimiles 
online so that everybody can individually verify).
Those 3 ingredients (well trained young players, growing interest outside of 
Europe and a large stock of available music without cost) are an indication 
that we don't have to be concerned for the future of lute playing. My opinion, 
that is.




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:53 AM, howard posner  
wrote:

> > On Aug 26, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Richard Brook richa...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
> > wrote:
>
> > I note Henry VIII (source: Hilary Mantel) executed a lute player for 
> > sleeping (so Henry claimed) with Anne Boleyn.
>
> That would be Mark Smeaton; hence Theodore’s foreboding about a 
> Smeaton-themed movie. But it has more or less happened already. Smeaton was a 
> significant character in The Tudors, a Netflix series that seems (as far as I 
> could see from dropping in while my wife binge-watched it), to combine 
> insight and outrageous nonsense in roughly equal measure.
>
> Addressing the larger question, assuming the world rebounds well from Covid 
> shutdown (a dicey proposition in the USA, I know) the lute should do just 
> fine because ensembles and orchestras should be a steady source of 
> professional gigs, and that area still seems to be growing. Some responses 
> here treat the lute as if it were just a vehicle for solo lute music, which 
> was never the case except in the early days of the lute revival.
>
> > So things are looking up.
> > Dick Brook
> >
> > > On Aug 26, 2020, at 8:13 PM, theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 
> > > wrote:
> > > Dear luters:
> > > What does the future hold the lute?
> > > In the waning days of this wonderful email list (Thanks Wayne!!), I
> > > thought I would invite thoughts regarding the future of the lute and
> > > the lute community. As I muse, it seems that this present lute revival
> > > started in 1960's - 70's largely out of the folk music revival and
> > > early music revival. I notice that many of our fellow lute enthusiasts
> > > are growing older (as am I). And with the recent passing of Julian
> > > Bream, I thought it prescient to reflect:
> > > What will the next 10, 20, or 50 years look like for the lute and lute
> > > community?
> > > Is interest in the lute on the decline, ascendency, or moving in some
> > > other direction?
> > > Is this trajectory different in different countries?
> > > The internet has revolutionized access to manuscripts, publishers, and
> > > recordings. Will the internet ultimately drive interest to diversions
> > > other than the lute?
> > > And when will Hollywood finally make a sizzling historical romance
> > > about a lute player and bring the lute back to be a symbol of
> > > seduction, as it should be? (Hopefully the movie won't be about Mark
> > > Smeaton.)
> > > Thoughts?
> > > theodore jordan
> > > --
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute strap

[Jurgen Frenz]

I find the strap discussion quite interesting especially what Leonhard Williams 
just said - it reminds me (and everybody who likes to think about his/her 
playing) that the simple position we sit down and hold the instrument has quite 
an impact on our playing. As often, there is no "rule" except that everybody 
has to figure out how it's real comfortable to play. I strongly believe that 
the instrument has to sit there without any additional effort to hold it, one 
needs to figure out how that exactly can be achieved.
Good luck!




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 11:45 PM, Leonard Williams 
 wrote:

> Yes--the shelf liner material works very nicely to de-grease the piggy!
> I actually use a footstool on the right to get the lute up a little
> higher (thigh under the widest point). Can't say it's improved my
> playing, however.
> Leonard Williams
> -Original Message-
> From: John Mardinly john.mardi...@asu.edu
> To: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Lute List
> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Sent: Sat, May 23, 2020 2:47 pm
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
> I've been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit
> that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works
> for me now is rubberized shelf liner:
> [1]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_r
> d_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158
> c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e
> 91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJ
> mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkz
> MDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGl
> yZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
> Cut out a 15'x15' piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the
> left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a
> guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
>
> > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner
>
> <[2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson
>
> <[3]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is
>
> possible.
>
> >
>
> > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where it
>
> is, unsupported?
>
> >
>
> > Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it's artistically right.
>
> >
>
> > Arthur: What?
>
> >
>
> > WOB: The Law of Gravity isn't as indiscriminate as people often
>
> think. You learn things like that when you're a bird.
>
> >
>
> > --Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the
>
> Tenth
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> >
>
> [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
> .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
> 1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0D
> BLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI
> 2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw=
>
> ---
>
> References
>
> 1.  
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_rd_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkzMDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
> 2.  mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
> 3.  mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
> 4.  
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0DBLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw=

[LUTE] Re: GAC early iltalian renaissance composers

[Jurgen Frenz]

Et voilã - thank you so much!
Jurgen




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, May 11, 2020 10:39 PM, Sean Smith  wrote:

> It sounds like the G. A. Casteliono Diversi Autori of 1536. The Albert
> de Rippe pieces are listed as by Alberto da Mantua.
> Sean
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:21 PM Jurgen Frenz
> <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello there,
> once again I'm looking at a document "GAC - various early italian
> diversi autiori" not knowing what it is. Does anybody know if it
> is a
> manuscript and if so what is the name of it? The individual
> pieces are
> numbered by folio. Some of the pieces there are identified by an
> author
> "Mantua" - but I wonder if that is a person's name or if it is
> just the
> location where those pieces came to life.
> I'd be glad to know more, thanks a lot in advance,
> Jurgen
> MataTelinga mail footer.jpg
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> ---
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> 2.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] GAC early iltalian renaissance composers

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello there,

   once again I'm looking at a document "GAC - various early italian
   diversi autiori" not knowing what it is. Does anybody know if it is a
   manuscript and if so what is the name of it? The individual pieces are
   numbered by folio. Some of the pieces there are identified by an author
   "Mantua" - but I wonder if that is a person's name or if it is just the
   location where those pieces came to life.

   I'd be glad to know more, thanks a lot in advance,
   Jurgen

   MataTelinga mail footer.jpg


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations

[Jurgen Frenz]

most unfortunately this forum's service provided doesn't allow photo 
attachments. Can you upload the example elsewhere and post the link to it here? 
That would be great.

Thanks
Jurgen





‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 9:25 PM, Guilherme Barroso 
 wrote:

> --0c0ca105a45ecdc0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Dear Yuval,
>
> Thanks a lot for your answer.
>
> I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at some
> places. Of course with your lute, even worse.
>
> But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just not
> possible.
>
> I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from 1582. In
> the marked passage, already the first chord is not possible to play (this
> chord appears often in this publication and also in Terzi's books), the
> next two bars are not better. even if you find a way to do it by some kind
> of arpeggio, how make it sound musical?
>
> Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 às 20:50, yuval.dvo...@posteo.de escreveu:
>
> > Dear Guilherme,
> > it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be nice
> > to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, and
> > he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all kind
> > of tablature fluently - quite crazy!
> > To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal
> > experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical
> > experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina and
> > me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on traverso -
> > so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked quite
> > well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the voices.
> > Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm), I
> > decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a perfect
> > voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the madrigals
> > recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner
> > voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for the
> > lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a good
> > phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If you're
> > interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces we
> > recorded on youtube.
> > Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns intabulations,
> > Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the same
> > time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now
> > (maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal exactly? At
> > the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music existed, so
> > maybe they would have heard the mistakes made by making the
> > intabulations more suitable for the lute?), and also about which role
> > the size of the lute plays. Did you try to play the "unplayable" parts
> > on a smaller lute? You could just use an capo in your second or third
> > fret, just to try how it feels with a small instrument.
> > All the best,
> > Yuval
> > Am 28.04.2020 15:12 schrieb Guilherme Barroso:
> >
> > > Dear Lute collective,
> > > For some time i've been thinking about some aspects about the
> > > intabulation of vocal pieces and i would like to know your ideas.
> > > When we look to the gigantic repertoire of vocal intabulations to
> > > the
> > > lute we encounter several pieces that are incredibly difficult to
> > > play.
> > > Intabulations done by Molinaro, Terzi, Barbetta, for example, some
> > > times present passages that are not only very demanding technically
> > > but also with impossible chord positions. Canguilhem, in his book
> > > about Galilei's Fronimo treatise, says that the main goal of
> > > Galilei's
> > > intabulations was to study the counterpoint and composition, not to
> > > be
> > > played. He even compares Galilei's intabulation of Vestiva i Colli
> > > for
> > > solo lute (where the madrigal is complete with all the voices) and
> > > another version for lute and bass solo (where the lute part is
> > > extremely simplified with supression of voices). The lute and voice
> > > version for sure was intended to be performed while the other might
> > > be
> > > intended to be studied. The act of intabulating would be the same
> > > as
> > > making a score for study purposes.
> > > There are a lot of intabulations in the repertoire that are more
> > > concerned in maintaining all the voices of the original work then
> > > making some concessions to adapt it better to the instrument.
> > > Of course, we are dealing with a huge repertoire from several
> > > composers
> > > and several places with specific differences. Le Roy, for example,
> > > is
> > > more willing to make changes to adapt to the instrument, he says
> > > that
> > > the "playability and beauty should come first".
> > > But 

[LUTE] Re: A Pavan

[Jurgen Frenz]

:-) how did you find this...

Thanks
Jürgen




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 2:29 AM, Tristan von Neumann 
 wrote:

> ..for these distracted times.
>
> (Thomas Tomkins)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z2BEKuWANA
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

[Jurgen Frenz]

from what I know there is no distinct font format for Windows. The fonts are 
for download in the file section of the Fronimo group, you can even you them in 
your text processor if you wish.
As explained elsewhere also by me the use of Fronimo on a Mac is without big 
problems. There are a few keyboard shortcuts that work differently but I don't 
remember.
Did you google on this list? It was discussed a number of times, as I said I 
explained in detail how I use it on a Mac.
Good luck!

Jurgen




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 3:09 PM, Mac User  wrote:

> Fronimo’s fonts do look great, but . . .
>
> 1.  Wouldn’t I have to purchase Fronimo to obtain the fonts? Then I would 
> have a program I can’t install or use on my Mac.
> 2.  It is my understanding that Fronimo’s fonts are formatted for Windows and 
> don’t work on the Mac anyway.
> Is this correct?
>
> Craig
>
>
> > On Mar 28, 2020, at 3:02 PM, Fabio Rizza fabio_ri...@alice.it wrote:
> > Just use Fronimo's fonts on Finale.
> > Regards
> > Fabio
> > Il 25/03/2020 02:31, Mac User ha scritto:
> >
> > > Hi all! I’ve been using Finale as my primary music notation software for 
> > > many years. Recently, I’ve begun arranging Renaissance and early Baroque 
> > > music for a mixed lute trio (Tenor in G, Alto in A, Soprano in D), and 
> > > while Finale does a fabulous job notating, transposing, printing, etc., 
> > > the one complaint I’ve had (and have made it myself) is the look and 
> > > function of the font used for the letters when notating in the French 
> > > style. I’ve tried many fonts available on my computer; none seem 
> > > adequate. Specifically, the letters cover each other when two or more 
> > > notes appear at the same time. A friend recommended using Fronimo, but I 
> > > don’t believe that one works on a Mac, which I use exclusively. Does 
> > > anyone here have a recommendation?
> > > Craig Wiggins
> > > Durham, NC
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Double Top

[Jurgen Frenz]

I read about the process to make such an instrument - from memory the two 
slices are glued together under vacuum, to me it sounds like quite a costly 
process. The guitars made by the inventor of this technology Matthias Dammann 
cost 15 000 € a pop.

Jürgne




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:04 AM, Mark Probert  wrote:

> John wrote:
>
> > Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any
> > luthiers interested in trying?
>
> Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure.
> I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really
> any advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process
> for starters, workin with nomex or similar, etc.).
>
> The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there
> may be occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with
> an overly stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of
> what makes a lute sound the way it does.
>
> Consider the following article for more
>
> https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467
>
> Kind regards
>
> .. mark.
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Things to play in quarantine

[Jurgen Frenz]

if it is for easy pieces to play or re-work basic technique I found Lynda Says 
quarterly advice quite useful and the higher numbers are not so easy either:

https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners

Further there's a list of tentative "grades" of difficulty of lute pieces, not 
everybody feels the same as we all have different difficulties but nice to go 
through

https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades

Best wishes
Jürgen




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:23 AM, Sean Smith  wrote:

> Both faves and we're lucky to have them.
> I know you like finding hidden things, Tristan. Go to the really long
> [Dump] on f280 in the Marsh. There's a measure missing between 114 and
> 115. Put in something you like or steal/adapt a measure from elsewhere.
> Now here's the fun part, record it carefully, then play it against the
> recording with a lag of 4 measures. It's not perfect but it works kind
> of nicely. It will certainly keep you occupied for an afternoon or two.
> ...and it's excellent metronome practice regardless.
> Whether it was meant that way is hard to say and, depending on whom you
> talk to, even suggesting it is probably irresponsible with a touch of
> 'shame on you!'. There's certainly no indication. It also starts a
> little abruptly so you might add a few C and G iterations on the front
> end.
> Sean
>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 8:13 PM Tristan von Neumann
> <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Many of you might have more time on their hands than usual.
> So here's a list of favorite books and manuscripts to play.
> * Marsh Lute Book. Fun for weeks.
> [2]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z.
> 3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/
> * Siena Ms. - it never fails to surprise
> [3]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28.
> B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/
> * If you want to concentrate on one piece: this one will keep you
> busy
> for a long time.
> [4]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01.p
> df
> * he learned from the best: This book by Paladin is extremely
> charming
> and not too difficult
> [5]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/
> * in times like these...
> [6]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2/
> pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf
> [7]gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf
> Let's hope the best for us all.
> Enjoy life.
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> ---!
 ---
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> 2.  
> http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z.3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/
> 3.  
> http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28.B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/
> 4.  http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01.pdf
> 5.  http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/
> 6.  
> http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2/pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf
> 7.  http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf
> 8.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro 12

[Jurgen Frenz]

what about asking him?

Some fool (for our free of charge pleasure) uploaded a CD of Molinaro pieces 
played by Paul Beier (do you happen to know him?). Mea culpa I downloaded it - 
but I believe I can hear how he was struggling with the playing technique.

Best
Jürgen



‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 3:38 PM, Tristan von Neumann 
 wrote:


> But No. 12 is certainly one of the most difficult pieces of the entire
> literature.
> I guess even Paul O'Dette struggled a lot with it.






To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro 12

[Jurgen Frenz]

O'Dette... you should try google sometime :-)

https://www.amazon.com/Fantasie-Canzoni-Balli-Simone-Molinaro/dp/B5OB21


___
Jürgen Frenz - Zittau im Dreiländereck PL/CZ/DE"Mata Telinga" Alte+Neue Musik  
+49 15733699647

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, March 13, 2020 6:18 PM, Tristan von Neumann 
 wrote:

> Dear Lutists,
>
> has anyone tried Molinaro's Fantasy No. 12 yet?
>
> It is most interesting, but unfortunately it's probably one of the most
> difficult fantasies to play :(
>
> Any recordings?...
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: pickup or mic inside lute

[Jurgen Frenz]

David if you don't mind, which particular stick-on mic is it that you're fond 
of?

Thanks
Jurgen


___
Jürgen Frenz - Zittau im Dreiländereck PL/CZ/DE
"Mata Telinga" Alte+Neue Musik  +49 15733699647

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, February 7, 2020 11:52 AM, David van Ooijen 
 wrote:

> I have a separate Schertler stick-on mic that I can use on all
> lutes/guitars I play. I can plug it into an amp I bring myself, or
> alternatively have a preamp (also Schertler) to give the PA-man a
> Direct Out while I'm still in control of my own EQ. The preamp also has
> a mute button, comes in handy when not playing or when tuning.
> A normal mic sounds better, but this works and had no feed back
> issues.
> A mic inside an instrument (I have a classical guitar with a build-in
> condenser mic) sounds rather boomy and can have feed-back issues.
> ymmv
> David
>
> David van Ooijen
> [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> [2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
>
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 07:40, Ed Durbrow <[3]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp>
>
> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of having my archlute repaired which will entail
> removal
> of the top. I'm also thinking if I do that, I'd like to have a
> pickup
> or mic installed. I'm looking for recommendations for a natural
> sounding pickup or mic inside the lute that is no hassle use. I
> need
> something that can be plugged into a wireless transmitter. The
> wireless
> system I have is a high end Sennheiser (ew 100 G2 ) that uses a
> condenser mic. I don't understand this stuff very well. I don't
> know if
> a pickup can look the same as a condenser mic to the transmitter.
> The ew-100 G2 manual says.
> AF characteristics
> Max. input voltage (at peak deviation) Microphone 1.8 Vrms,
> unbalanced
> 1.2 Veff, unbalanced
> Line 2.4 Vrms
> Input impedance Microphone 10 kΩ, unbalanced10 kΩ, unbalanced
> Line 1 MΩ
> Thanks in advance.
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> [1][4]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> [2][5]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> [3][6]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> --
> References
> 1. [7]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> 2. [8]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> 3. [9]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> ---!
 
--
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> 2.  http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
> 3.  mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
> 4.  http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> 5.  https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> 6.  http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> 7.  http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> 8.  https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> 9.  http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> 10.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tuner for android

[Jurgen Frenz]

which update for Cleartune? There hasn't been an update in years from what I 
know. I find nothing to complain about it


___

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:25 PM, Anthony Hart 
 wrote:

> Pitchlab pro doesn't appear on Google play
> I have found other sources but my phone denies download.
>
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 18:46 utchug, <[1]utc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> PitchLab Pro
> Il giorno 29 gen 2020, alle ore 18:26, Anthony Hart
> <[2]anthony.hart1...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>Can anyone suggest a tuner app. I have used Cleartune on my iPad
>  but
>the reviews for the update are not good.
>Thanks
>Anthony
>--
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:utc...@gmail.com
> 2.  mailto:anthony.hart1...@gmail.com
> 3.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Milan's name

[Jurgen Frenz]

Here is the collection of names for Señor Luys from the online Petrucci 
library, for what it's worth:

＝
Alternative Names/Transliterations: Millán, Luys Milan, Luis de Milán, Lluís 
del Milà
＝
Name in Other Languages: Luis de Milán, ルイス・デ・ミラン, Lluís del Milà, Милан, Луис 
де, لويس دي ميلان
＝
Aliases: Luis de Milan, Luys de Milan, Luys de Milán, Lluís Milà, Lluis Mila, 
Luis Milan, Lluis Milà, Lluís Mila, Lluís de Milà, Luys Milán


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, January 6, 2020 6:41 AM, Antonio Corona 
 wrote:

> A couple more:
>
> Juan Timoneda, Rosas de romances (1573): Don Luys Milan
>
> Bartolomé de Villalba y Estaña, El pelegrino curioso ... (1577): Don Luys 
> Milan
>
> On Sunday, 5 January 2020, 19:24:07 GMT-6, Antonio Corona 
> abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Luis Milán, Libro de motes (1535): Don Luys Milan
>
> Luis Milán, El Maestro (1535-36): Luys Milan
>
> Luis Milán, El cortesano (1561): Don Luys Milan
>
> Juan Fernández de Heredia, Las obras ... (1562): Don Luys Milan
>
> Gaspar Gil Polo, Diana enamorada (1564): Don Luys Milan
>
> Best wishes,
> Antonio
>
> On Sunday, 5 January 2020, 14:26:06 GMT-6, Joachim Lüdtke 
> jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote:
>
> In El Cortesano it's Don Luys Milan … I am not a home for the next few days, 
> but if anyone has the Facsimile of El Maestro published by the Sociedad de la 
> Vihuela a few years ago, he or she could look into the commentary and see if 
> there is any evidence mentioned for Milán, de Milán or similar.
>
> Best
>
> Joachim
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Jurgen Frenz]

Hello Leonard,

I meticulously play every day as a warm up simple notes on all courses with the 
goal to create the "perfect" attack which is the fingers and thumb engage both 
strings at the same time. There is a video on YT that shows it quite well by 
David van Ooiyen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh0X4U6h7DM

Of course doing so repeatedly with the hope that in time it becomes automatic.

For the rest I have no complaints at all about an octave string on the 5th 
course, but it also depends on the music played.

Good luck
Jurgen

--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, November 28, 2019 2:33 AM, Leonard Williams 
 wrote:

> I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8
> course lute. I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the
> diameter of the bass (all in gut). But, whereas the octave g on 6th
> blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly,
> almost as though I had a metal string on there. Perhaps it was poor
> (thumb-in in this case) technique? At any rate, I switched back to
> unison.
> I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same
> stringing. One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of the
> octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge,
> but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the
> octave ringing out quite plainly. I adjusted the bridge knot, what
> little I could, and the sound improved somewhat. Perhaps further work
> with RH technique will further improve the sound. Or--any other
> suggestions??
> Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
> Leonard Williams
> On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz
> <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello there,
>
> >
>
> > I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm
>
> > "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed
>
> the
>
> > plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds
>
> quite
>
> > the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on
>
> 6c
>
> > instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current
>
> sound
>
> > "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the
>
> > Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high
>
> > frequencies with them.
>
> >
>
> > Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just
>
> get
>
> > used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it
>
> would
>
> > confuse voices.
>
> >
>
> > Hoping for some suggestions,
>
> > Jurgen
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."
>
> >
>
> > JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> 2.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello Edward,

   thank you very much, I feel encouraged now to "go octaves" all the way
   down from 5th. course.I should consider myself stupid that I hesitated,
   because who is there to judge me apart from myself. I am not competing
   in any academic exercise :-)
   Thank you very  much again, gut is cost-wise prohibitive to me.

   Best regards

   Jurgen

   --
   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

   âââââââ Original Message âââââââ

   On Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:16 PM, Edward Martin
wrote:

   Hello Jurgen,
   I agree that in with 8-course lutes, they do tend to not sound as
   brilliant as with octaves.  Of course, it is a compromise, but on my
   8-course lute, I have octaves on 5,6,7, & 8  and like it very much.
   Whatever brand of strings you try, I think you will like the 5th course
   in octaves, as it brightens up the sound.  I do not see it as confusing
   the voices as you say, but adding to the richness and complexity of the
   sound.  Another thing that could very much improve the sound is to use
   gut.  If you do not want gut, at least consider using gut for octaves.

   On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:19 AM Jurgen Frenz
   <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

  Hello there,

  I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm

  "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed
   the

  plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds
   quite

  the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on
   6c

  instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current
   sound

  "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the

  Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high

  frequencies with them.

  Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just
   get

  used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it
   would

  confuse voices.

  Hoping for some suggestions,

  Jurgen

  --

  "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

  JalÃl ad-Dën Muhammad Rumi

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello there,

   I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm
   "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed the
   plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds quite
   the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on 6c
   instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current sound
   "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the
   Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover high
   frequencies with them.

   Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just get
   used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it would
   confuse voices.

   Hoping for some suggestions,
   Jurgen

   --
   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tiorbino

[Jurgen Frenz]

If I understand it well the tiorbini is tuned one octave higher than a standard 
theorbo - hence you can play anything for theorbo, if you don't mind historic 
accuracy but just pure fun.
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, November 18, 2019 3:50 PM, Susan Price 
 wrote:

> I've had a tiorbino before and I find it awesome for playing solo
> theorbo music. It sounds muck like a small harp. I even played De Visee
> on it and twas divine.
>
> Susan
>
>  Original message 
> From: yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
> Date: 11/17/19 9:47 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: Lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Tiorbino
>
> Hello all,
> I was offered a Tiorbino, and I'm wondering what one can do with it
> (except of playing Bellerofonte-Castaldi): Are there any proofs that it
> was used for playing solo instead of a big theorbo or for playing
> continuo?
> And is there any literature about it apart from the article by Nocerino
> (2005)?
> Thanks and regards a usual :-)
> Yuval
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] status of Courantes at there time

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello there,

   I have the impression that Courantes have the tendency to be
   technically much less challenging than other compositions of their time
   - most striking it appears in Kapsberger's first book (1611). What
   seems to be the reason? Was a Courante a piece of teaching material? Or
   where they pop tunes of their time, hence "crowd pleasers"? Also from
   descriptions I understand that they are not to be played at a high
   speed neither as if it was to show of one's speed skills.

   Looking forward to hear some ideas, thank you.

   Jurgen

   --
   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Jurgen Frenz]

thank you very much for the post and listen to "grain de la voix", there are 
several recordings on YouTube.
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 7:46 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

> We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this time on a topic of
> crucial importance to lutenists who perform with singers.
>
> [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
>
> Ron & Donna
>
> 
>
> References
>
> 1.  https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Sorting pieces for compilation

[Jurgen Frenz]

when I'm making a selection I keep it small, not more than 50 pieces. Vital to 
me is an index to easier locate pieces. If you have a good pdf editor you can 
simply add a page number to an existing document and resave it.

I have a collection by lute type like 6c or 8c. Other collections that I 
compile over time are by geographic origin.

Another way is to compile pieces in view of a performance, like 12 pieces for 
one evening.

Good luck
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 6:28 AM, Tristan von Neumann 
 wrote:

> Here's a "problem" to which any ideas are welcome:
>
> I'm preparing a lute book for myself that shall contain all my favourite
> pieces, about 500 pages.
>
> I am still struggling with the order the pieces.
>
> Apart from solvable problems like page turns of pieces with more than 2
> pages, I am not sure what concept is the best.
>
> There's plenty of possibilities:
>
> -   by date of sources - useful for experiencing history, offers a nice
> mixture of genres within
>
> -   in alphabetical order of the composer (though this would make A as in
> anonymous the biggest part...)
>
> -   by country of origin
> -   by genre (as in historical prints - Fantasies, Chansons and Madrigals,
> Motets, Dances)
>
> -   a mixture of those above
>
> Any experiences/suggestions are welcome.
>
> :)
> T*
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Requests for new projects

[Jurgen Frenz]

Hi Sarge,

this is a very generous offer by you - thanks a lot!

I personally only have a few faksimiles on my hard disk, all items that float 
around on the internet (I can mail you copies if you want them). The following 
are in German Tabulature:

 Dohna Book (2 Weissel Books: Tabulatura Allerley künstlicher + Tabulatura 
Guter gemeiner Deudtscher Tentze (both 1592)
 Gerle Tabulaturen uff die Lauten 1533 + Musica Teutsch 1532
 Willaert - Das Erst Buch 1572

>From German tab presumably are the following items which are on the fronimo 
>user group, most in fronimo2 format which you my add to your collection:

 Simon Gintzler 1547
 Mus MS 1512 german dances and songs
 Hans Neusiedler - Der Ander Theil 1536

Best regards,
Jurgen






--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, August 8, 2019 4:16 AM, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.  
wrote:

 Hello, everybody!
 Some random questions for you:
 I am continually looking for suggestions for stuff to add to my
 [1]website, so:
 1. Has anyone got fronimo files squirreled away that are not already
 on my site that could be posted there?
 2. I would like to ask if anyone has a burning need for something to
 be posted there that I could take on as a project. I want to
 solicit suggestions and then I could go with what is most needed.

 I have tended to prioritize German, then Italian tab sources, as many
 people do not read these easily.
 As I have moved away from performing and into editing, I have several
 lutes I would like to sell, mainly by van der Waals and Holst, but also
 an archlute by Dan Larson, a ren lute by Ian Harwood, and a couple of
 descant lutes. Not sure about the best approach, here.
 Occasional questions come up about arcane notations, particularly in
 German tab, so I may be asking questions about that as well.
 Thanks!
 --Sarge

 
--

 References

 1.  http://gerbode.net/

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Right hand- thumb out and the pinky resting on the sound board

[Jurgen Frenz]

Dear Matthew,

merci beaucoup pour tes observations précises et pour ton offre d'analyser ma 
position de main et peut-être trouver une solution.
I added a link to a photo of my right hand on my 8c lute with the pinky close 
to the chanterelle - I didn't make a video because I would need to more or less 
voluntarily touch the string while playing which I'd be afraid exposes me to 
ridicule.

https://flic.kr/p/2gPx4vk

I'm playing the easy anonymous Courantes of the Cherbury Lutebook because I 
have tremendous problems to hit the right bass course. As a side effect I also 
have the pinky issue that ruins my inner peace which my initial post was about. 
The fairly easy one on f.25vb (if the pieces of the book were numbered no.52) 
is a perfect example for my nightmares (both for the pinky causing the 
chanterelle to buzz or mute frequently and my thumb that misses frequently it's 
destination).
String distance is "standard" according to the lute maker: The spacing between 
courses is precisely 10mm (also between D and the chanterelle), the strings of 
the doubled courses are 5mm apart.

As you very sharply observed, I do not have issues with my 6c lute where I play 
the music thumb under with a very different angle of the hand.

OK so far! Thanks again,
Jürgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 6:35 PM, Matthew Daillie  
wrote:

> I suspect that this very issue explains why there are so many depictions of 
> lutenists playing late renaissance and baroque lutes with the little-finger 
> the other side of the bridge where there are no strings to hamper it. If one 
> changes the angle of the hand in relation to the courses of the lute, with 
> the thumb out and the other fingers more perpendicular to the strings, it is 
> inevitable that the little finger catches on the chanterelle as one plays on 
> the lower courses. With thumb-under technique, the fingers are more parallel 
> to the strings and the little finger keeps a safe distance from the top 
> string (and some players develop a scissor motion between the pinky and the 
> other fingers so that the former remains on a more or less fixed position on 
> the top).
>
> Jurgen, what music and what type of lute are you playing? What are the 
> right-hand bridge spacings? Can you put a photo or video of the offending 
> pinky online (or send privately if you are not seeking international 
> celebrity)?
>
> Best,
>
> Matthew
>
> Le 3 août 2019 à 07:52, Jurgen Frenz eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com a 
> écrit :
>
> > Hi there,
> > in addition to the ongoing very interesting discussion on RH technique
> > I have a practical problem / question.
> > When playing thumb-out and alternate m-i stroke I find it next to
> > impossible reach with the fingers downwards beyond the a string without
> > touching with the inner skin of the mentioned pinky the high g string.
> > Is there something I can do to improve? I find it quite frustrating to
> > stumble always over this limitation of mine.
> > Raising the wrist more distant to the sound board seems to be logical
> > but to me that results in a right hand that is light years away from
> > "relaxed".
> > Thanks for reading, best regards
> > Jurgen
>
> --
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Right hand- thumb out and the pinky resting on the sound board

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hi there,

   in addition to the ongoing very interesting discussion on RH technique
   I have a practical problem / question.

   When playing thumb-out and alternate m-i stroke I find it next to
   impossible reach with the fingers downwards beyond the a string without
   touching with the inner skin of the mentioned pinky the high g string.
   Is there something I can do to improve? I find it quite frustrating to
   stumble always over this limitation of mine.

   Raising the wrist more distant to the sound board seems to be logical
   but to me that results in a right hand that is light years away from
   "relaxed".

   Thanks for reading, best regards

   Jurgen

   --
   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)

[Jurgen Frenz]

I don't understand the argument against using a tuner - the rather inexpensive 
Android + iOS app "Cleartune" has a number of different temperaments including 
1/4, 1/6 comma meantone pre-defined - just set the base note and watch the 
readings.

Good luck anyway :-)


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, July 27, 2019 2:53 AM, tribioli  wrote:

> Everything you need about fret positions is written in David van Oojien
> page about temperaments. I use the 1/6 comma (pythagorean) with the
> first fret to the A flat position (for a G first string). That gives a
> very wrong F sharp on the IV course (it is a G flat indeed) but old
> music does show D major chord with the F sharp to the IV course really
> really seldom (that's another thing that seems to show they used some
> sort of temperament)
>
> Francesco
>
>  Messaggio originale 
> Da: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
> Data: 26/07/19 18:53 (GMT+01:00)
> A: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> Cc: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu list" lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)
>
> Thank you: it will be interesting to compare your preferences
> for fret positioning to those advocated by others - should they
> ever appear..
> MH
> On Friday, 26 July 2019, 17:42:19 BST, David van Ooijen
> davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Somebody wants numbers? In the link below are some numbers.
> But using your ears is a better idea than blindly (deafly?)
>
>
> following
> (mine or other people's) numbers. Get the major third you like
> (harmonic f-a on 4th course for a pure major third, or a something
> slightly less extreme if you so wish) and then tune octaves and
> shift
> your frets around: 1st fret up for the flats or down for the
> sharps
> (I
> have my continuo archlute 1st fret up for the flats, with a
> tastini
> on
> 5, 6 and 7 for the sharps, I avoid the g# on first course - or try
> to
> avoid it anyway), 2nd fret down, 3rd fret up, 4th fret down, 5th
> only
> slightly up, 6th and 7th fret down again. Tune, adjust, fiddle
> around
> until you're happy with it.
> But someone was asking for numbers in stead of real life luting.
> Here
> are my numbers:
>
> [1][1]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com/mean-tone-temperament-for-lu
> te/
> David
> On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 18:19, [2][2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
> <[3][3]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>   You use your ears to move the frets? Wouldn't using your
>   fingers
>   be
>   easier?
>   Sent from my Huawei phone
>    Original Message 
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)
>   From: howard posner
>   To: "[4][4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu list"
>   CC:
> You might want to reread the part about using your ears.
>   "Precise
> fret positions" is an irrelevant concept if you tune by
>   actually
> listening; that's why your repeated demands for numbers
>
>
> are
> going
> unanswered.
> > On Jul 26, 2019, at 6:40 AM, Martyn Hodgson
>
> <[5][5]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >Thank you Stephan,
>
> >Would you kindly share what precise fret positions
>
>   result
>   when
> you set
> >the
>
> >'fifth fret so high that you can still enjoy and work
>
>   your way
> >through.'
>
> >MH
>
> >
>
> >On Friday, 26 July 2019, 13:17:31 BST, Stephan
>
>
> Olbertz
> > <[6][6]stephan.olbe...@web.de> wrote:
>
> >You wouldn't even need a tuner. Just set a fifth fret
>
>
> so
> high
> that you
> > can
>
> >still enjoy and work your way through all the other
>
>   frets
>   and
> open
> >courses
>
> >by means of comparing octaves and unisons.
>
> >Use strings that are neither too old nor too new. And
>
>
> be
> sure to
> tune
> > to a
>
> >fourth based tuning.
>
> >Regards
>
> >Stephan
>
> >
>
> >Im Auftrag
>
> >von Roland Hayes
>
> >Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Juli 2019 13:36
>
> >An: Martyn Hodgson; [3][7][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
>
>   Steve
>   Ramey
> >Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Test 9od temperament)
>
> >  Or you could get a meantone tuner and use your ears
>
>   and
>   not a
> >measuring
>
> >  tape
>
> >  Get [1]Outlook for 

[LUTE] Re: Wishful thinking on lute temparaments was Re: Lute Temperaments

[Jurgen Frenz]

to my opinion it would be great if someone anyone would record an identical 
piece of renaissance music twice: once in equal temperament and once in a 
different tuning so that everybody can appreciate the difference.
Of course, one thing that nobody mentioned in this discussion is our 
"well-tempered" music that from early childhood onward has conditioned our 
hearing - Arab and Indian musicians hear those micro-intervals much better than 
we do because their everyday sonic environment contains them. I assume that in 
the 16th century European ears were differently trained than ours today and 
hence the music-playing public would hear those intervals that we judge to be 
of lesser importance. There is a hypothesis that monophonic non-western music 
survives with little changes precisely because of these subtle intervals that 
are charged with emotional expressiveness whereas our western harmonic equal 
'temperamented' music ended its development around 1900 when all possibilities 
had been explored. - I do not know if we can improve our hearing so as to 
recognize the subtleties of non-equal temperament once we are older than 20 or 
so.
Whatever the case, it would be great to hear the difference in an example - it 
should be remarkable in a slower Dall'Aquila fantasia or something similar.

Best wishes
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:19 PM, Martyn Hodgson 
 wrote:

> Thank you Rafael,
> I am intrigued. Would you kindly tell us precisely how you fret your
> instrument? I mean the exact cents you employ for each fret, from fret
> one through to fret 10 for each of the temperaments you employ.
> regards
> MH
>
> On Sunday, 21 July 2019, 16:13:00 BST, Rafael Muñoz RodrÃguez
> rafalu...@yahoo.es wrote:
> Dear all,
> I would like to share my thoughts on this matter, based on my
> experience as a gigging and recording musician. Since around 2006 I use
> a modified meantone temperament wich, in my opinion, works practically
> for fretted plucked instruments. I use it on my theorbo, my archlute
> and (only for concerts wich include pieces in distant modes) on my
> Renaissance lute and vihuela (Baroque guitar and Baroque lute are
> different beasts regarding historical temperaments in my experience).
> We could say that it is a temperament wich sits between 1/4 meantone
> and the well tempered baroque temperaments. Mayor thirds are not
> totally pure and fifths are slightly wider than meantone. It works
> beautifully for solo playing and, for what it ´s worth, it works for me
> as a chamber music/ continuo player in the real-professional world
> (maybe some other players can share their experiences here too).
> For concerts, I place my frets and tune my strings using this
> temperament and then I make (usually very) slight adjustments with
> frets and open strings depending on the keys that will be most used and
> in order to be as close as possible to the actual historical
> temperament wich the cembalo is using (Meantone, Valloti, Kirnberger,
> French temperaments...) BUT without going too far and making my
> instrument sound out of tune when played alone. If it is needed I use
> one or two tastinos. Then, for example, when using a theorbo, I usually
> adjust my 4th fret for sharps and I play G sharp and D sharp always in
> the fourth fret, second string and third string respectively. In
> absence of a tastino, I avoid 4th and 5th strings in the first fret and
> I use them only for A flat and E flat. I also avoid to play certain
> notes in specific frets wich shouldn ´t be moved, like A sharp (third
> fret fourth string) or C sharp (sixth fret fourth string). And that ´s
> all.
> For recording, I use this temperament as a basis but, if needed, I
> use more tastini and I adjust the frets for each individual movement or
> piece.
> Maybe I have been very lucky but, in all honesty, I have never been
> asked to modify or change my tuning (in fourteen years of live playing
> and recording) because it didn ´t work with the historical temperament
> in use. My temperament doesn ´t completely match that of the
> cembalo/organ, etc... but it is much closer than equal temperament and
> with minor adjustments it works in any situation as long as my
> instrument sounds in tune by itself too. Of course, if you ´re playing
> a concert with lots of different keys (for example a big Opera or
> Oratorio) and the conductor asks for equal temperament, you know what
> to do. On the other hand, try to record an aria or recitativo by
> Monteverdi with a cembalo and a singer and using equal
> temperament...some fifths maybe passable but mayor thirds will be
> unacceptable.
> Sorry for the long post.
> Cheers,
> Rafael
> En domingo, 21 de julio de 2019 11:19:08 CEST, Martyn Hodgson
> hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu escribió:
>
>  Dear Matthew,
>  Thank you for his - though I really do 

[LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments

[Jurgen Frenz]

I had the impression that the downloadable xcel sheet by the American Lute 
Society says so because it names tunings "Gerle's lute" and "Downland's lute" 
among others - I would be glad to learn better.

https://home.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/index.html

Best
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, July 20, 2019 2:37 PM,  wrote:

> ‎That must be some misunderstanding - there are no instruments on which one 
> could base Gerle or Dowland tmperaments.
>
> Best
>
> Jo
>
>   Originalnachricht  
> Von: Jurgen Frenz
> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juli 2019 05:40
> An: Daniel Shoskes
> Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Cc: Lute List; Tristan von Neumann
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments
>
> from what I read the fret calculators on the net are based on historic 
> instruments - hence a distinct Gerle and Dowland tuning because they are 
> taken from the fret marks on the neck of different instruments.
> @ Daniel Shoskes, I wonder with 1/6th comma tuning what is the reference 
> pitch as a tuning where the fundamental is G would result in different 
> pitches compared to a tuning based on A. Another thing, would all common keys 
> sound 'better' as you describe it, i.e. where are the limits as of keys? The 
> Dowland Coranto for instance which is basically in F minor contains C major 
> and Db major chords among others.
>
> Best wishes
> Jurgen
>
>
> 
>
> “Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”
>
> Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:15 AM, Daniel Shoskes kidneykut...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> > For my Renaissance lute I prefer 1/6 comma. Not too extreme if the keys 
> > stray but noticeably brighter than equal for most solo music. Even if you 
> > prefer equal, it’s handy to know how to get to 1/6 comma if you ever play 
> > in a mixed ensemble.
> > If you have access to the latest LSA Quarterly, the “Lute Forum” section 
> > has a discussion on meantone temperament with contributions from Sylvan 
> > Bergeron and Lucas Harris. Lucas is of the opinion that tuning using a fret 
> > placement calculator is inferior to tuning by ear with an electronic tuner 
> > because fret calculators don’t take into account factors such as action 
> > that can alter the placement.
> > If you have access to the archives, there is also a good article by Richard 
> > Kolb in the Spring 2009 edition.
> > Danny
> >
> > > On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:04 PM, Tristan von Neumann 
> > > tristanvonneum...@gmx.de wrote:
> > > I know this is a wide topic...
> > > Today, I changed my fret setup from Gerle to Dowland (Thanks to Mr.
> > > Niskanen and his marvellous calculator), because I mostly play later
> > > 16th century music.
> > > It sounds somewhat "brighter" in the keys preferred then.
> > > Maybe I will also try what Galilei recommended.
> > > Which one did you try and which one do you prefer (for solo playing).
> > > What are your thoughts on character vs. versatility?
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments

[Jurgen Frenz]

from what I read the fret calculators on the net are based on historic 
instruments - hence a distinct Gerle and Dowland tuning because they are taken 
from the fret marks on the neck of different instruments.
@ Daniel Shoskes, I wonder with 1/6th comma tuning what is the reference pitch 
as a tuning where the fundamental is G would result in different pitches 
compared to a tuning based on A. Another thing, would all common keys sound 
'better' as you describe it, i.e. where are the limits as of keys? The Dowland 
Coranto for instance which is basically in F minor contains C major and Db 
major chords among others.

Best wishes
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:15 AM, Daniel Shoskes  
wrote:

> For my Renaissance lute I prefer 1/6 comma. Not too extreme if the keys stray 
> but noticeably brighter than equal for most solo music. Even if you prefer 
> equal, it’s handy to know how to get to 1/6 comma if you ever play in a mixed 
> ensemble.
> If you have access to the latest LSA Quarterly, the “Lute Forum” section has 
> a discussion on meantone temperament with contributions from Sylvan Bergeron 
> and Lucas Harris. Lucas is of the opinion that tuning using a fret placement 
> calculator is inferior to tuning by ear with an electronic tuner because fret 
> calculators don’t take into account factors such as action that can alter the 
> placement.
> If you have access to the archives, there is also a good article by Richard 
> Kolb in the Spring 2009 edition.
>
> Danny
>
> > On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:04 PM, Tristan von Neumann tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 
> > wrote:
> > I know this is a wide topic...
> > Today, I changed my fret setup from Gerle to Dowland (Thanks to Mr.
> > Niskanen and his marvellous calculator), because I mostly play later
> > 16th century music.
> > It sounds somewhat "brighter" in the keys preferred then.
> > Maybe I will also try what Galilei recommended.
> > Which one did you try and which one do you prefer (for solo playing).
> > What are your thoughts on character vs. versatility?
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[Jurgen Frenz]

Julian Bream was a vital part (I believe) of the lute revival 50 years ago by 
making the music public. On the downside of it he played guitar technique on it 
to the point of using singe strings on both the high G and D courses - it 
allowed him to play apoyando on the lute which is a big no-no. Hence his lute 
playing doesn't really sound like a lute. Also, at that time, it was common 
guitar technique to use sound differences to emphasize or mark formal sections 
by moving the right hand extremely close to the bridge, which creates a very 
metallic sharp sound. This has fallen out of favor on the guitar as well, I 
personally would qualify it as obnoxious, even more so on the lute.
If you like it, you may listen to Konrad Ragossnigs lute recordings, he sounds 
very much like Bream did.

Best
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 6:13 AM, Franz Mechsner  
wrote:

> Dear Dan,
>
> Julian Bream actually pioneered lute playing very early. Watch
> this beautiful movie on him that makes me smile (lute things come
> somewhere in the
> middle): [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI
>
> Warm regards and best
> Franz
>
> Dr. Franz Mechsner
> Zum Kirschberg 40
> D-14806 Belzig OT Borne
> +49(0)33841 441362
> franz.mechs...@gmx.de
>
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Juni 2019 um 01:07 Uhr
> Von: "Dan Winheld" dwinh...@lmi.net
> An: "Franz Mechsner" franz.mechs...@gmx.de, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Betreff: Re: [LUTE] Julian Bream on Lute
> Nope. Never heard of him.
> On 6/18/2019 3:49 PM, Franz Mechsner wrote:
>
> > Dear collective wisdom,
>
> >
>
> > I just heard some pieces played by admired guitarist Julian Bram on
>
> the
>
> > lute. It seems to me he played kind of classical guitar style on the
>
> > lute. Strange, but It sounds wonderful to me, not only bold for the
>
> > time. Does anyone understand how he played the (maybe special) lute
>
> and
>
> > produced the wonderful sound on a lute admittedly built for him?
>
> >
>
> > Best and curious
>
> > Franz
>
> >
>
> > Dr. Franz Mechsner
>
> > Zum Kirschberg 40
>
> > D-14806 Belzig OT Borne
>
> > +49(0)33841 441362
>
> > franz.mechs...@gmx.de
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> >
>
> References
>
> 1.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI
> 2.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: it's working.

[Jurgen Frenz]

- after a bump or any other unwanted background noise record all over again. 
Cutting out frequencies afterwards always cuts into the sound of the instrument 
(low G string = 98 Hz).
- take distance from walls - they reflect the sound and add delayed frequencies 
which works as a filter and usually makes for nasal sound
- make sure your instrument is well tuned...

Jurgen

--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:25 AM, Tristan von Neumann 
 wrote:

> Hi,
>
> my Tascam DR-07x is now working. The SD Card I had was not recognized
> and I had to buy a new one.
>
> Also, the exfat format on the card will not work in my specific Linux
> setup (this is not a general Linux thing, other distros can make it work).
>
> Fortunately, I have an old Macbook that can be used for file transfer.
> USB connection still lacks a cable, I forgot it somewhere, will be
> tested soon.
>
> Anyway, I can record, and luckily, the sound recorded from my usual
> place (at the desk, device on a box, pointing towards the H fret) works
> perfectly well.
>
> I am amazed by the bass this thing records, and the clear tone.
>
> Here's the raw recording of some Aquila. I only removed the rumble where
> my leg bumped against the desk. Note to self: keep legs away from desk
> while recording.
>
> https://tristanvonneumann.bandcamp.com/track/marco-dallaquila-three-ricercars
>
> Any suggestions what to improve like recording position or other things?
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] experiences with Aquila new synthetic fret gut

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello there,

   Aquila has new (I don't know how new) synthetic fret gut available on
   their website.

   [1]http://aquilacorde.com/old/early-music-strings/early-music-products/
   135/frets-gut-tailpieces/?lang=en

   The cost is almost half price from real fret gut and I wonder if
   anybody here on the list has used them yet and would be willing to
   share his/her appreciation.

   Thank you very much,

   Jürgen

   --
   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

References

   1. 
http://aquilacorde.com/old/early-music-strings/early-music-products/135/frets-gut-tailpieces/?lang=en


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: decent field recorder for lute

[Jurgen Frenz]

I found Tascam recorders to sound better than "the others" - the zoom devices 
have powerful marketing.

Forget about USB mics, they are crap and I'm polite. If you want to record 
straight into your com running Linux you exponentially add problem sources, I 
strongly encourage you not to.

Good luck


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:26 AM, David van Ooijen  
wrote:

> I own a portable Marantz with decent on-board mics that does the job. I
> also own a slightly bigger Marantz (still portable) with on board mics
> but that I connect proper mic to and use as my studios recording
> device. Very, quiet mic preamps. Happy with both.
> The best thing in both units is that you can override the auto gain
> (don't even know if the bigger unit has auto gain, the bane of dynamic
> playing).
> David
>
> David van Ooijen
> [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
>
> On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 20:16, Matthew Daillie
> <[3]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>
> I have a Tascam DR-1 and it has given me years of loyal service. It
> gives a very clean, natural sound, has good build quality and the
> original battery still provides outstanding autonomy. This model has
> obviously been superseded but there are several others on offer. Try
> to see one in the flesh before purchase to check on the robustness
> of the models of the present range. Tascam have been in business for
> years, notably providing equipment to professional recording studios
> and radio stations but I suspect the cheaper models cut corners on
> solidity.
> Best,
> Matthew
> Le 17 mai 2019 Ã 17:29, Tristan von Neumann
> <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> a écrit :
>
>  > Dear collective experience,
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > while we're at it:
>
>  > I finally have some small budget to buy a recording device.
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > What I want:
>
>  > * use it at home to record lute music and other instruments
>
>  >
>
>  > (* use it as a usb mic)
>
>  >
>
>  > * take it with me and record in the park or pub or wherever a
>
>  session
>  > might come along
>
>  >
>
>  > * I have linux, so at least it should be possible to extract the
>
>  files
>  > without removing the SD card
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > So far, the Zoom H2n seems like the best option. Some people say
>
>  the
>  > noise is quite high, others don't.
>
>  >
>
>  > (Samples from youtube with guitar seem ok, but not really
>
>  sparkling - I
>  > know, this is not a replacement big membrane studio mic, but
>
>  still...)
>  >
>
>  > In Germany, the Zoom is available for around 150 Eurobucks.
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > What are the alternatives? (and keep in mind that it should be
>
>  available
>  > in Germany...)
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > Thanks!
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > To get on or off this list see list information at
>
>  > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> 2.  http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
> 3.  mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
> 4.  mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> 5.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: How to improve lute performance

[Jurgen Frenz]

this confirms that there is large fascination for our beloved instrument in the 
large public


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 9:18 PM, Daniel Shoskes  
wrote:

> Never thought to use a bot, but gamers seem to have found the solution
>
> https://kotaku.com/mordhau-players-are-using-bots-to-play-the-lute-better-1834681431
>
> Danny
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Reymann

[Jurgen Frenz]

I don't know if someone posted it here since last week but here is the pdf of 
Noctes Musicae. Sorry for wasting bandwidth if I repost it.

Best regards
Jurgen




--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Thursday, May 2, 2019 8:27 AM, Dan Winheld  wrote:

> Congratulations Tristan and Magnus- you have gotten me interested in
> getting Reymann's "Noctes"; unfortunately my eyesight has degraded to
> the point where I can no longer read facsimiles. Are there any modern
> typeset editions? (Any tab system or pitch notation- just has to be
> legible to ancient eyes)
> Thanks for any leads-
> Dan
>
> On 4/26/2019 10:19 PM, magnus andersson wrote:
>
> > Dear Tristan,
> >
> > I have played some Reymann in concert. His Noctes collection is indeed
> > one of the finest collections of lute music that's come down to us.
> >
> > His galliardas are among the the most virtuouso pieces in the whole
> > repertoire.
> >
> > He must have been a very accomplished musician!
> >
> > I hope to record some of his music in the future. His Cythara sacra is
> > a great pendant to Noctes. Much more meditative and less technically
> > demanding.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Magnus
> > [1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone
> >
> > Den fredag, april 26, 2019, 10:29 em, skrev Tristan von Neumann
> > :
> >
> > Just got my hands on Noctes Musicae 1598 by Matthaeus Reymann.
> >
> > Has anyone played it?
> >
> > I am amazed that there is absolutely no recording of this amazing very
> >
> > original music.
> >
> > The collection has huge choral and other fantasies with lots of great
> >
> > ideas, and especially pavans that rival the fantastic treatment of
> >
> > Daniel Batchelar's - these aren't dances anymore, but fantasies ordered
> >
> > by the pavan model.
> >
> > The best thing: the difficulty is not that high compared to the effect:
> >
> > the fingering is very logical and doesn't distract from the beauty of
> >
> > the pieces.
> >
> > Huge recommendation.
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> >
> > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
> > 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >



--

[LUTE] Re: Reymann

[Jurgen Frenz]

On the Polish Jagelonski library is an online version of the Psalms in very 
high quality - however it's in the pesky djvu format:

https://jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl/publication/302828

Best
Jurgen

--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, May 3, 2019 2:33 AM, Terry Muska 
 wrote:

> What is OMI and how can I purchase a copy of the Reymann?
>
> Thanks,
> Terry
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 2, 2019, at 1:25 AM, Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote:
> > Not easy to read, c and e almost undiscernible at many places.
> > Digitalised copies would be great help.
> > There must be facsimile files of Reymann online somewhere, though,
> > because I've g got one.
> > Mathias
> > __
> > Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
> > --- Original-Nachricht ---
> > Von: Susan Price
> > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
> > Datum: 02.05.2019, 4:23 Uhr
> > An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > I see that OMI has a nice facsimile of Reymann for $111.00. Should I
> > purchase?
> > Susan
> >  Original message 
> > From: Dan Winheld <[2]dwinh...@lmi.net>
> > Date: 5/1/19 7:27 PM (GMT-07:00)
> > To: magnus andersson <[3]maan7...@yahoo.com>, Tristan von Neumann
> > <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>, [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
> > Congratulations Tristan and Magnus- you have gotten me interested in
> > getting Reymann's "Noctes"; unfortunately my eyesight has degraded to
> > the point where I can no longer read facsimiles. Are there any modern
> > typeset editions? (Any tab system or pitch notation- just has to be
> > legible to ancient eyes)
> > Thanks for any leads-
> > Dan
> >
> > > On 4/26/2019 10:19 PM, magnus andersson wrote:
> > > Dear Tristan,
> > > I have played some Reymann in concert. His Noctes collection is
> > > indeed
> > > one of the finest collections of lute music that's come down to
> > > us.
> > > His galliardas are among the the most virtuouso pieces in the
> > > whole
> > > repertoire.
> > > He must have been a very accomplished musician!
> > > I hope to record some of his music in the future. His Cythara
> > > sacra is
> > > a great pendant to Noctes. Much more meditative and less
> > > technically
> > > demanding.
> > > Best,
> > > Magnus
> > > [1]Skickat fr��������n Yahoo Mail
> > > f��������r iPhone
> > > Den fredag, april 26, 2019, 10:29 em, skrev Tristan von Neumann
> > > <[6]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:
> > > Just got my hands on Noctes Musicae 1598 by Matthaeus Reymann.
> > > Has anyone played it?
> > > I am amazed that there is absolutely no recording of this amazing
> > > very
> > > original music.
> > > The collection has huge choral and other fantasies with lots of
> > > great
> > > ideas, and especially pavans that rival the fantastic treatment
> > > of
> > > Daniel Batchelar's - these aren't dances anymore, but fantasies
> > > ordered
> > > by the pavan model.
> > > The best thing: the difficulty is not that high compared to the
> > > effect:
> > > the fingering is very logical and doesn't distract from the
> > > beauty of
> > > the pieces.
> > > Huge recommendation.
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > [2][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > --
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1.  [8]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
> > > 2.  [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> > --
> > References
> >
> > 1.  
> > https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
> > 2.  mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
> > 3.  mailto:maan7...@yahoo.com
> > 4.  mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> > 5.  mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > 6.  mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> > 7.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > 8.  https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
> > 9.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Reymann

[Jurgen Frenz]

There is a "modern" edition on the Fronimo user group archive, I guess it is 
accessible to Fronimo users only. It was made in 1999, the "readme" doesn't 
identify the author. My guess is Göran Krona or Jason Curtis.


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, May 2, 2019 1:25 PM, Mathias Rösel  
wrote:

> Not easy to read, c and e almost undiscernible at many places.
> Digitalised copies would be great help.
> There must be facsimile files of Reymann online somewhere, though,
> because I've g got one.
> Mathias
> __
>
> Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
> --- Original-Nachricht ---
> Von: Susan Price
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
> Datum: 02.05.2019, 4:23 Uhr
> An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>
> I see that OMI has a nice facsimile of Reymann for $111.00. Should I
> purchase?
> Susan
>  Original message 
> From: Dan Winheld <[2]dwinh...@lmi.net>
> Date: 5/1/19 7:27 PM (GMT-07:00)
> To: magnus andersson <[3]maan7...@yahoo.com>, Tristan von Neumann
> <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>, [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
> Congratulations Tristan and Magnus- you have gotten me interested in
> getting Reymann's "Noctes"; unfortunately my eyesight has degraded to
> the point where I can no longer read facsimiles. Are there any modern
> typeset editions? (Any tab system or pitch notation- just has to be
> legible to ancient eyes)
> Thanks for any leads-
> Dan
> On 4/26/2019 10:19 PM, magnus andersson wrote:
>
> > Dear Tristan,
>
> >
>
> > I have played some Reymann in concert. His Noctes collection is
>
> indeed
>
> > one of the finest collections of lute music that's come down to
>
> us.
>
> >
>
> > His galliardas are among the the most virtuouso pieces in the
>
> whole
>
> > repertoire.
>
> >
>
> > He must have been a very accomplished musician!
>
> >
>
> > I hope to record some of his music in the future. His Cythara
>
> sacra is
>
> > a great pendant to Noctes. Much more meditative and less
>
> technically
>
> > demanding.
>
> >
>
> > Best,
>
> >
>
> > Magnus
>
> > [1]Skickat fr��������n Yahoo Mail
>
> f��������r iPhone
>
> >
>
> > Den fredag, april 26, 2019, 10:29 em, skrev Tristan von Neumann
>
> > <[6]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:
>
> >
>
> > Just got my hands on Noctes Musicae 1598 by Matthaeus Reymann.
>
> >
>
> > Has anyone played it?
>
> >
>
> > I am amazed that there is absolutely no recording of this amazing
>
> very
>
> >
>
> > original music.
>
> >
>
> > The collection has huge choral and other fantasies with lots of
>
> great
>
> >
>
> > ideas, and especially pavans that rival the fantastic treatment
>
> of
>
> >
>
> > Daniel Batchelar's - these aren't dances anymore, but fantasies
>
> ordered
>
> >
>
> > by the pavan model.
>
> >
>
> > The best thing: the difficulty is not that high compared to the
>
> effect:
>
> >
>
> > the fingering is very logical and doesn't distract from the
>
> beauty of
>
> >
>
> > the pieces.
>
> >
>
> > Huge recommendation.
>
> >
>
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> >
>
> > [2][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> > References
>
> >
>
> > 1.  [8]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
>
> > 2.  [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> >
>
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.  
> https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
> 2.  mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
> 3.  mailto:maan7...@yahoo.com
> 4.  mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> 5.  mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 6.  mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> 7.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 8.  https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
> 9.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: S.Zhadan "SEARCH": film, lute and war

[Jurgen Frenz]

as beautiful as impressive. thank you.
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, April 14, 2019 10:17 PM, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

> For those of my friends who couldn't attend the fabulous event at the
> Ukrainian Museum on April 12: here's the video from it:
>
> [1]https://youtu.be/4aeiETVd3jU
>
> Special thanks to [2]Stuart Walsh and [3]Володимир Харченко!
> RT
>
> 
>
> References
>
> 1.  
> https://youtu.be/4aeiETVd3jU?fbclid=IwAR1PfMLKphjkXwCDnC9uAv4nARVEF0d18KWioyFNSReT4h7R7TdR-uvFXTQ
> 2.  
> https://www.facebook.com/stuart.walsh.5?tn=,dK-R-R=ARDaZOT6TGYbxY2THvBfM3_CQ4AK1f3Lrwm6K6GBk40WK6bdPcZOHGN-SSmJGzyOUCgTuLciYg552vlX=mentions
> 3.  
> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id0002999263809=,dK-R-R=ARCDmTVqX0OZRnc5wu_PlXSQGq5ICR6U2qc2_ZpUGJ5J3Bz2HM0rUNb_0eHoTVcDdurKWRksGURnNGK-=mentions
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: LLD

[Jurgen Frenz]

there have been a number of very controversial discussions about these lutes 
made in China on the British lute Society's Facebook page. I rented one for 2 
months recently but I refrain from reporting my opinion here publicly because I 
only had one single instrument and I assume that others maybe different.
If you're in Paris you should try it out by yourself. I suggest you don't trust 
too much in YouTube videos because - being a sound engineer - I know what you 
can do in the computer to enhance / completely change any given sound.

Good luck
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, April 2, 2019 2:08 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:

> Googling it, the site says they are ‘designed in Paris' (doesn't say
> what century), made in China, and they have many on-line reviews.
>
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
>
> On Apr 1, 2019, at 9:19 AM, DAVID RASTALL <[1]d_lu...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> Le Lute Dore
>
> References
>
> 1.  mailto:d_lu...@comcast.net
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: An Estonian Air

[Jurgen Frenz]

a big thank you for this lovely piece. I play it on my 6c lute and I love it's 
purity.


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, March 31, 2019 8:45 AM, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

> For your perusal and delectation:
> http://polyhymnion.org/swv/setomaa.html
> SIBERI SETUDE LUGU, a traditional Estonian melody
> in three versions, for
> baroque lute, theorbo and renaissance lute.
> Enjoy!
> Amities,
> RT
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)

[Jurgen Frenz]

Hi Dan,

I posted in my initial message a screenshot of the original, it is a Mercure 
d'Orléan piece "Auff der Schlacht von Padua" printed in Fuhrmann's Testudo. The 
bars in question are on page 188 at the 2 bottom lines, the position goes up to 
"t" which leaves me puzzled. If "q" exists then "t" is C# assuming tuning in G 
and that note wouldn't make any sense in an F major piece.


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 12:48 PM, Jurgen Frenz 
 wrote:

> Dan, so if your instrument goes up to "r", do you count "q" as a fret? My 
> issue with my initial post was how those positions above the octave are 
> labelled. And in the example tab I cited, if "t" refers to the 4th above the 
> octave there is one letter missing. My assumption was that "q" was skipped.
> Jurgen
>
>
> ---
>
> “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”
>
> Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Saturday, March 30, 2019 7:27 AM, Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net wrote:
>
> > I have seen pics of 18th century d-minor lutes (no idea if that was an
> > original setup), usually swan neck variety with 14 frets. Makes sense to
> > me, there's room and no reason not to. I don't often run through the
> > Bach d-minor suite but when I come to the chaconne I hit that spot &
> > wonder when I am going to glue on those last two frets. My 8 course goes
> > up to fret r because of some Piazzolla arrangements I made a few years ago.
> > Dan
> > On 3/29/2019 2:34 AM, Susan Price wrote:
> >
> > > I always have my baroque Lutes with 14 frets, and I use that high g 
> > > all
> > > the time (for instance in the Bach chacone). 2 of my archlutes go up 
> > > to
> > > fret Q because I wrote a piece that goes that high.
> > >
> > > Susan
> > >
> > >  Original message 
> > > From: Rainer 
> > > Date: 3/28/19 9:39 AM (GMT-07:00)
> > > To: Lute List 
> > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)
> > >
> > > Yes, it's as simple as that.
> > > n
> > > o,
> > > p,
> > > ..
> > >     so j is the only one that is not used. In those days there was no real
> > > difference between "i" and "j".
> > > Dowland uses p somewhere, Piccinini goes much higher (20th fret) and
> > > ages ago somebody found a piece that went even higher (I think it was
> > > 26) in an 18th century tablature.
> > > Rainer
> > > On 28.03.2019 11:11, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
> > > > Hello there,
> > > >
> > > > my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images 
> > > so
> > > a
> > > > message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with
> > > the
> > > > relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive.
> > > >
> > > > I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's
> > > FB page
> > > > as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute.
> > > There is
> > > > this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der 
> > > Schlacht
> > > von
> > > > Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as
> > > "p", "r"
> > > > and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would
> > > > correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a',
> > > 'bb' and
> > > > 'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And
> > > where are
> > > > these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a
> > > screen shot
> > > > of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to
> > > discuss the
> > > > musical quality of that lengthy piece.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z
> > > >
> > > > Any advice would be very welcome!
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes Jurgen
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
> > > >
> > > > JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > 1.
> > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > >
> > >

[LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)

[Jurgen Frenz]

Dan, so if your instrument goes up to "r", do you count "q" as a fret? My issue 
with my initial post was how those positions above the octave are labelled. And 
in the example tab I cited, if "t" refers to the 4th above the octave there is 
one letter missing. My assumption was that "q" was skipped.
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 7:27 AM, Dan Winheld  wrote:

> I have seen pics of 18th century d-minor lutes (no idea if that was an
> original setup), usually swan neck variety with 14 frets. Makes sense to
> me, there's room and no reason not to. I don't often run through the
> Bach d-minor suite but when I come to the chaconne I hit that spot &
> wonder when I am going to glue on those last two frets. My 8 course goes
> up to fret r because of some Piazzolla arrangements I made a few years ago.
>
> Dan
>
> On 3/29/2019 2:34 AM, Susan Price wrote:
>
> > I always have my baroque Lutes with 14 frets, and I use that high g all
> > the time (for instance in the Bach chacone). 2 of my archlutes go up to
> > fret Q because I wrote a piece that goes that high.
> >
> > Susan
> >
> >  Original message 
> > From: Rainer 
> > Date: 3/28/19 9:39 AM (GMT-07:00)
> > To: Lute List 
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)
> >
> > Yes, it's as simple as that.
> > n
> > o,
> > p,
> > ..
> > so j is the only one that is not used. In those days there was no real
> > difference between "i" and "j".
> > Dowland uses p somewhere, Piccinini goes much higher (20th fret) and
> > ages ago somebody found a piece that went even higher (I think it was
> > 26) in an 18th century tablature.
> > Rainer
> > On 28.03.2019 11:11, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
> > > Hello there,
> > >
> > > my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images so
> > a
> > > message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with
> > the
> > > relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive.
> > >
> > > I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's
> > FB page
> > > as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute.
> > There is
> > > this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der 
> > Schlacht
> > von
> > > Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as
> > "p", "r"
> > > and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would
> > > correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a',
> > 'bb' and
> > > 'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And
> > where are
> > > these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a
> > screen shot
> > > of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to
> > discuss the
> > > musical quality of that lengthy piece.
> > >
> > >
> > [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z
> > >
> > > Any advice would be very welcome!
> > >
> > > Best wishes Jurgen
> > >
> > > --
> > > "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
> > >
> > > JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1.
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z
> > >
> > >
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >
> >

[LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)

[Jurgen Frenz]

Thanks for your reply.
what about Q? Is it used? If so, 't' would refer to c# assuming g tuning and 
harmonically the piece wouldn't make sense being in F if I remember well. I was 
assuming q is not used quite like j in order to avoid confusion with o. But I 
really do not know.
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:39 PM, Rainer  wrote:

> Yes, it's as simple as that.
>
> n=12
> o=13,
> p=14,
> ..
>
> so j is the only one that is not used. In those days there was no real 
> difference between "i" and "j".
>
> Dowland uses p somewhere, Piccinini goes much higher (20th fret) and ages ago 
> somebody found a piece that went even higher (I think it was 26) in an 18th 
> century tablature.
>
> Rainer
>
> On 28.03.2019 11:11, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
>
> > Hello there,
> >
> > my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images so a
> > message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with the
> > relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive.
> >
> > I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's FB page
> > as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute. There is
> > this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der Schlacht von
> > Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as "p", "r"
> > and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would
> > correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a', 'bb' and
> > 'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And where are
> > these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a screen shot
> > of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to discuss the
> > musical quality of that lengthy piece.
> >
> > [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z
> >
> > Any advice would be very welcome!
> >
> > Best wishes Jurgen
> >
> > --
> > "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
> >
> > JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi
> >
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello there,

   my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images so a
   message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with the
   relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive.

   I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's FB page
   as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute. There is
   this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der Schlacht von
   Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as "p", "r"
   and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would
   correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a', 'bb' and
   'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And where are
   these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a screen shot
   of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to discuss the
   musical quality of that lengthy piece.

   [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z

   Any advice would be very welcome!

   Best wishes Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

References

   1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: frets / positions above the octave

[Jurgen Frenz]

Oh dear I forgot there are no attachments possible here... So a link below

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z

I hope it works. Thanks Rainer for your tremendously helpful advice.
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:50 PM, Rainer  wrote:

> On 27.03.2019 10:29, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
>
> > ogûÙýZçWvu÷›}½ñÏZ{w6óŽ_Ù°¨ž×§µ<©z×±·úej)Ü…ªìz
>
> Ugga, Agga
>
> Rainer
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] frets / positions above the octave

[Jurgen Frenz]

ogûÙýZçWvu÷›}½ñÏZ{w6óŽ_Ù°¨ž×§µ<©z×±·úej)܅ªìz

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Jurgen Frenz]

> lutenist nonsense from the 1970s and played according to actual
> historical examples?
> __
> From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
> behalf
> of Martin Shepherd <[4]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
>
>  Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 8:23 AM
>  To: Lute List
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
>  Dear All,
>  Just from memory - Besard insists on thumb-out technique as being the
>  best, but allows that people with short thumbs may find thumb-inside
>  easier.  I find it inconceivable that he would change hand position
>  during a piece, and see no reason why you should not use thumb-index
>  alternation in fast runs with thumb out - flamenco guitarists do it
>
>
> all
> the time.
> The fingering dots in the ML lute book (c.1640) give an interesting
> indication of this. In Dowland's fantasia (Poulton 1, ML ff.14v-15r)
> all runs are marked to be played middle-index, except where a running
> passage has infrequent bass notes (f.15, second system) which have no
> double dots (meaning middle), so presumably to be be played
> thumb-index. Once the bass notes become more frequent (and the speed
> of the treble movement stays the same, 3rd and 4th systems) the
> middle-index alternation returns. Then a fast cadential formula (end
> of
> system 5) lacks any double dots and is therefore thumb-index.
> I'm sure there are many other examples like this. Nigel North's
> recent
> talk at the Lute Society gave many interesting examples of RH
> fingerings.
> Martin
> On 06/03/2019 08:06, [5]jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote:
> > Sorry: 'original', naturally!
>
>  >
>
>  > Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
>
>  >Originalnachricht
>
>  > Von: [6]jo.lued...@t-online.de
>
>  > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. MÃ ¤rz 2019 07:49
>
>  > An: Lute net
>
>  > Antwort an: [7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>
>  > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > Dear Alan, dear Jurgen,
>
>  >
>
>  > There is something to that effect in all 'oroginal' versions of
>
>  Besard's instructions, that is: 1603 and 1617. I do not remember if
>
>
> ye
> text englished contains the passage...
> >
>
>  > Best
>
>  >
>
>  > Joachim
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >Originalnachricht
>
>  > Von: Alain Veylit
>
>  > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. MÃ ¤rz 2019 04:32
>
>  > Antwort an: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>
>  > Cc: Lute net
>
>  > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > Jurgen,
>
>  >
>
>  > It's been a while and I was quoting from memory... but I am sure I
>
>  saw
>  > it somewhere - perhaps the instructions translated in English in
>
>
> the
> > Varietie of Lute Lessons?
>
>  >
>
>  > Or maybe the use of dots in Thesaurus Harmonicus ...
>
>  >
>
>  > Alain
>
>  >
>
>  > On 3/4/19 11:11 PM, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
>
>  >> It would be totally excellent if you'd find out where Besard made
>
>  that suggestion.
>  >> Thanks,
>
>  >> jurgen
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> --
>
>  >> "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Jalà l ad-Dà «n Muhammad Rumi
>
>  >>
>
>  >> â⬠â⬠â⬠â⬠â⬠â⬠â⬠Original Message â⬠â⬠ââ¬
>
>
> â⬠â⬠â⬠â⬠.
> >> On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:40 AM, Alain Veylit
>
>  <[9]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:
>
>  >>
>
>  >>> That's odd because I remember O'Dette's advice for the left-hand
>
>  pinky:
>  >>> plant it vertically on the string instead of laying it flat -
>
>
> which
> >>> requires more effort. That should mean his left-hand little
> finger
> can
> >>> bend... Not a conclusive proof for the right hand little finger
> but
> ...
> >>> For Renaissance lute, if I am not mistaken, the right-hand little
>
>  finger
>  >>> is supposed to be parallel to the sound board, just lightly
>
>  brushing on
>  >>> it, and it sho

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Jurgen Frenz]

Sorry Martin, what is the "ML" lute book?
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:23 PM, Martin Shepherd  
wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Just from memory - Besard insists on thumb-out technique as being the
> best, but allows that people with short thumbs may find thumb-inside
> easier.  I find it inconceivable that he would change hand position
> during a piece, and see no reason why you should not use thumb-index
> alternation in fast runs with thumb out - flamenco guitarists do it all
> the time.
>
> The fingering dots in the ML lute book (c.1640) give an interesting
> indication of this.  In Dowland's fantasia (Poulton 1, ML ff.14v-15r)
> all runs are marked to be played middle-index, except where a running
> passage has infrequent bass notes (f.15, second system) which have no
> double dots (meaning middle), so presumably to be be played
> thumb-index.   Once the bass notes become more frequent (and the speed
> of the treble movement stays the same, 3rd and 4th systems) the
> middle-index alternation returns.  Then a fast cadential formula (end of
> system 5) lacks any double dots and is therefore thumb-index.
>
> I'm sure there are many other examples like this.  Nigel North's recent
> talk at the Lute Society gave many interesting examples of RH fingerings.
>
> Martin
>
> On 06/03/2019 08:06, jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote:
>
> > Sorry: 'original', naturally!
> > Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
> >   Originalnachricht
> > Von: jo.lued...@t-online.de
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 07:49
> > An: Lute net
> > Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
> > ‎Dear Alan, dear Jurgen,
> > There is something to that effect in all 'oroginal' versions of Besard's 
> > instructions, that is: 1603 and 1617. I do not remember if ye text 
> > englished contains the passage...
> > Best
> > Joachim
> > Originalnachricht
> > Von: Alain Veylit
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 04:32
> > Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > Cc: Lute net
> > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
> > Jurgen,
> > It's been a while and I was quoting from memory... but I am sure I saw
> > it somewhere - perhaps the instructions translated in English in the
> > Varietie of Lute Lessons?
> > Or maybe the use of dots in Thesaurus Harmonicus ...
> > Alain
> > On 3/4/19 11:11 PM, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
> >
> > > It would be totally excellent if you'd find out where Besard made that 
> > > suggestion.
> > > Thanks,
> > > jurgen
> > >
> > > “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”
> > > Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐.
> > > On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:40 AM, Alain Veylit 
> > > al...@musickshandmade.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > That's odd because I remember O'Dette's advice for the left-hand pinky:
> > > > plant it vertically on the string instead of laying it flat - which
> > > > requires more effort. That should mean his left-hand little finger can
> > > > bend... Not a conclusive proof for the right hand little finger but ...
> > > > For Renaissance lute, if I am not mistaken, the right-hand little finger
> > > > is supposed to be parallel to the sound board, just lightly brushing on
> > > > it, and it should remain extended.
> > > > Anybody with a good explanation as to how additional basses would alter
> > > > the right hand position? If I recall, Besard still argued for a mixed
> > > > technique, thumb-under for fast runs and thumb over for whatever else
> > > > (chords). I think it is logical that increasing dedication of the thumb
> > > > to the bass strings does account for the shift in right-hand position,
> > > > and when you think about it, it is not a small revolution in music
> > > > history...
> > > > On 3/4/19 7:12 PM, Richard Brook wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Heard via the late great Pat OBrien Paul O’Dette couldn’t bend that 
> > > > > finger down by itself. Though I think Pat said in my case the fault 
> > > > > was in my head, not in the stars.
> > > > > D ick Brook
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Mar 4, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alain Veylit al...@musickshandmade.com 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >

[LUTE] Re: Tip - Lute Scribe character / font question

[Jurgen Frenz]

Thank you for the clarification - I understand now.
J


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 3:51 PM, Luke Emmet  
wrote:

> Hi Jurgen
>
> LuteScribe, and the underlying TAB text format that it builds on are not
> exactly WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get), but rather WYSIWYM -
> what you see is what you meant. In essence they provide a series of
> formatting commands to the underlying TAB program which typesets the
> output result.
>
> There are a number of visual limitations of underlying TAB text format
> which LuteScribe seeks to address, namely that a) is rotated and upside
> down compared to the actual tabulature b) due to it being a text format
> notes on the same course do not always line up visually (e.g. if there
> are fingerings, dotted rhythms etc) and c) it uses plain text so you
> have to mentally translate common symbols such as the flags. So one of
> the main aspects of LuteScribe is that it provides a visual editor that
> lets you edit the content and at the same time you can much more easily
> play and understand the edited content as a lutenist. When the print
> preview output is created, LuteScribe builds the underlying TAB text
> format and TAB creates the pretty output.
>
> In the editor the fonts used by LuteScribe are based - and used with
> permission - on a set of fonts created by Steve Horn for Sibelius. When
> you view the "print preview" output, the fonts used are those that are
> provided by TAB. You can change the fonts of the output in LuteScribe
> via the Options or Headers section.
>
> So there are two sets of fonts being used, one for editing and then
> those of TAB. For the PDF output or any printouts you will get the TAB ones.
>
> Hope this helps to explain what is going on.
>
> There is a new version of LuteScribe coming out soon that has some more
> usability enhancements, and it also supports playback using TAB's midi
> output facility. I will make an announcement on the list in the coming days.
>
> Best Wishes
>
> -   Luke
>
> On 05-Mar-2019 07:09, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
>
>
> > Oops - I REALLY was ignorant about the image issue. Here is a link to 
> > google docs, I inserted the screen shots into a text file.
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s4MoYEk4QArbZBENI9AWZ_GJDGKms1VYFFZt_LTsp7E/edit?usp=sharing
> > Best
> > Jurgen
> >
> > “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”
> > Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 9:47 AM, wayne lutewst...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Lute People and Jurgen -
> > > Looks like you don’t know that the lute list does not like pictures, 
> > > which in this case is a shame.
> > > Perhaps you could post them on a web site or google documents. They show 
> > > characters,
> > > especially the letter e, in lute-scribe input format and as output by my 
> > > “tab” programt. Jurgen says . . .
> > > Hello there,
> > > I am asking about the "e" in lute scribe - in the editor the character 
> > > appears as a "normal" minuscule e whereas in print the character has 
> > > changed to a tilted small capital "E" as documented in the attached 
> > > screenshots - actually I very much like that capital E but I cannot find 
> > > it in the font. How does this miracle happen?
> > > Thanks for a hint,
> > > Jurgen
> > > you can email Jurgen at eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 
> > > mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com and you can read about my tab 
> > > program at https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/AboutTab.html
> > > Wayne
> > >
> > > > Begin forwarded message:
> > > > From: Jurgen Frenz eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> > > > Subject: [LUTE] Lute Scribe character / font question
> > > > Date: March 4, 2019 at 9:14:51 PM EST
> > > > To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > > > Reply-To: Jurgen Frenz eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> > > > ogѕхэ7uЗ§oMЙoVкуmКпо_зЎЕзpЈžзЇЕ<ЉzзБЗњej)м
> > > > Њьz
> > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > > --
>
> --
>
> Orlando Lutes
> http://www.orlando-lutes.com

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Jurgen Frenz]

It would be totally excellent if you'd find out where Besard made that 
suggestion.
Thanks,
jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:40 AM, Alain Veylit  
wrote:

> That's odd because I remember O'Dette's advice for the left-hand pinky:
> plant it vertically on the string instead of laying it flat - which
> requires more effort. That should mean his left-hand little finger can
> bend... Not a conclusive proof for the right hand little finger but ...
> For Renaissance lute, if I am not mistaken, the right-hand little finger
> is supposed to be parallel to the sound board, just lightly brushing on
> it, and it should remain extended.
>
> Anybody with a good explanation as to how additional basses would alter
> the right hand position? If I recall, Besard still argued for a mixed
> technique, thumb-under for fast runs and thumb over for whatever else
> (chords). I think it is logical that increasing dedication of the thumb
> to the bass strings does account for the shift in right-hand position,
> and when you think about it, it is not a small revolution in music
> history...
>
> On 3/4/19 7:12 PM, Richard Brook wrote:
>
> > Heard via the late great Pat OBrien Paul O’Dette couldn’t bend that finger 
> > down by itself. Though I think Pat said in my case the fault was in my 
> > head, not in the stars.
> > D ick Brook
> >
> > > On Mar 4, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alain Veylit al...@musickshandmade.com wrote:
> > > Good one Rainer - Anybody remembers the title of that American series 
> > > from the 60s-70s where aliens live among us in disguise, and the only 
> > > sure way to identify them is that they cannot bend their little finger?
> > > Worth mentioning also about right-hand technique, Jimmy Hendrix playing 
> > > with his teeth - frustrated leftie, you think?
> > > On 3/4/19 12:19 PM, Rainer wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 04.03.2019 17:11, Alain Veylit wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And then, there is Django Reinhardt... one big exception to the rules 
> > > > > of guitar playing. Experimenting with various techniques has probably 
> > > > > always been a popular habit among musicians, whether by choice or 
> > > > > force.
> > > >
> > > > And Aguado used the 4th finger of the right hand. Perhaps he was an 
> > > > alien :)
> > > > Rainer
> > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tip - Lute Scribe character / font question

[Jurgen Frenz]

Oops - I REALLY was ignorant about the image issue. Here is a link to google 
docs, I inserted the screen shots into a text file.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s4MoYEk4QArbZBENI9AWZ_GJDGKms1VYFFZt_LTsp7E/edit?usp=sharing

Best
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 9:47 AM, wayne lute  wrote:

> Hi Lute People and Jurgen -
>
> Looks like you don’t know that the lute list does not like pictures, which in 
> this case is a shame.
> Perhaps you could post them on a web site or google documents. They show 
> characters,
> especially the letter e, in lute-scribe input format and as output by my 
> “tab” programt. Jurgen says . . .
>
> Hello there,
> I am asking about the "e" in lute scribe - in the editor the character 
> appears as a "normal" minuscule e whereas in print the character has changed 
> to a tilted small capital "E" as documented in the attached screenshots - 
> actually I very much like that capital E but I cannot find it in the font. 
> How does this miracle happen?
>
> Thanks for a hint,
> Jurgen
>
> you can email Jurgen at eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 
> mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com and you can read about my tab 
> program at https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/AboutTab.html
>
> Wayne
>
> > Begin forwarded message:
> > From: Jurgen Frenz eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> > Subject: [LUTE] Lute Scribe character / font question
> > Date: March 4, 2019 at 9:14:51 PM EST
> > To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > Reply-To: Jurgen Frenz eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> > ogѕхэ7uЗ§oMЙoVкуmКпо_зЎЕзpЈžзЇЕ<ЉzзБЗњej)м
> > Њьz
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --

[LUTE] Lute Scribe character / font question

[Jurgen Frenz]

ogõåí7u·ýoM¹oVÚãmºßÞ_×®µ×p¨ž×§µ<©z×±·úej)܅ªìz

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: LA RITURNELLA

[Jurgen Frenz]

It's the first time I see your website - thank you! Loads of interesting music 
there...


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 6:56 AM, Roman Turovsky  
wrote:

> On 2/11/2019 6:43 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>
> For those who may be familiar with this traditional song from Sicily
> -
> [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ711ThbHw - a very cheesy
> version,
> [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwCMn5YXEQ8 - a very classy
> version
> and wishing to accompany oneselfon lute or theorbo:
> [3]http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/images/riturnella.pdf - the
> greatest 4 bars-worth of music.
> RT
>
> Tu rinnina che vai
> Tu rinnina che vai
> Lu maru maru
> Oi riturnella
> Tu rinnina che vai lu maru maru
> Ferma quanno te dico
> Ferma quanno te dico
> Dui paroli
> Oi riturnella
> Ferma quanno te dico dui paroli
> Corri a jettari lu
> Corri a jettari lu
> Suspiro a mari
> Oi riturnella
> Corri a jettari lu suspiro a mari
> E vididi se mi rispunna
> E vididi se mi rispunna
> Lu mio beni
> Oi riturnella
> E vididi se mi rispunna lu mio beni
> Non mi rispunna - No
> Non mi rispunna - No
> È troppo lontano -
> Oi riturnella
> Non mi rispunna - No è troppo lontano
> E sotto a na friscura
> E sotto a na friscura
> Che sta dormendo
> Oi riturnella
> E sotto a na friscura che sta dormendo
> Poi si ripiglia cu
> Poi si ripiglia cu
> Nu chianto all'occhi
> Oi riturnella
> Poi si ripiglia cu nu chianto all'occhi
> Se struja l'occhi e li
> Se struja l'occhi e li
> Passa lu chianto
> Oi riturnella
> Se struja l'occhi e li passa lu chianto
> Piglia tu muccaturo
> Piglia tu muccaturo
> Lu vai a lavu
> Oi riturnella
> Piglia tu muccaturo lu vai a lavu
> Poi ti lu spanno a lu
> Poi ti lu spanno a lu
> Pero de rosa
> Oi riturnella
> Poi ti lu spanno a lu pero de rosa
> Poi ti lu manno a Na…
> Poi ti lu manno a Na…
> …poli a stirare
> Oi riturnella
> Poi ti lu manno a Napoli a stirare
> Poi ti lu cogliu a la
> Poi ti lu cogliu a la
> Napulitana
> Oi riturnella
> Poi ti lu cogliu a la napulitana
> Poi ti lu mannu cu
> Poi ti lu mannu cu
> Ventu a purtari
> Oi riturnella
> Poi ti lu mannu cu ventu a purtari
> Ventu và portacello
> Ventu và portacello
> A lu mio beni
> Oi riturnella
> Ventu và portacello a lu mio beni
> Mera che nun ti cada
> Mera che nun ti cada
> Pé supra mari
> Oi riturnella
> Mera che nun ti cada pé supra mari
> Ca perdo li sigilli
> Ca perdo li sigilli
> De stu cori
> Oi riturnella
> Ca perdo li sigilli de stu cori
>
> ---!
 
!
 --!
 --
>
> References
>
> 1.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ711ThbHw
> 2.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwCMn5YXEQ8
> 3.  http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/images/riturnella.pdf
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Re : Airyware tuner instrument list

[Jurgen Frenz]

I just tried the app amd I think it is excellent, especially the addded noise 
reduction.
As for the long list of instruments, once you have found the instrument of your 
choice you can click that tiny star and the instrument is added to your own 
favorite instruments list - no more scrolling (unless you have 100 different 
lutes).

By mistake I replied only to one person on the list, stupido me...
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 03:16, Anthony Hind  
wrote:

> You're right about the 13 strings, actually this selection works ok for
> 11C, evidently not a lutenist. Personally, I don't mind choosing from a
> long list so long as I find my instrument. Apparently they leave a link
> for suggesting improvements so probably you can point that out.
> However, I do very much like the needle and strobe tuning combination.
>
> Anthony
> [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> Le lundi, septembre 24, 2018, 10:00 PM, Ralf Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
> a écrit :
>
> Am Montag, 24. September 2018 20:55 CEST, Anthony Hind
> <[2]agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu> schrieb:
>
> > Dear lutenists
>
> >
>
> >I made a slip with the name of the tuner app, it is Airyware
> >
>
> tuner
>
> > and not Airywave tuner (perhaps I felt Airywave was a better name.
>
> >
>
> > Apologies for any time spent searching,
>
> Thank's for pointing out this app. I haven't come across it - it looks
> very promising
>
> (even so the lute presets, listing as 13 string etc. are a bit silly.
> And it's clumsy to have
>
> to select from a long list of instruments).
>
> Cheers, RalfD
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Anthony
>
> > [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> > References
>
> >
>
> > 1.  [3]https://yho.com/footer0
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.  https://yho.com/footer0
> 2.  mailto:agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3.  https://yho.com/footer0
> 4.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] What 'last changes' can you demand to a lute maker when receiving you new instrument

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hi there,

   I often read when players comment on their new instrument that they are
   very happy with it after demanding a few adjustments. I'm totally
   ignorant as to what changes one could possibly request - the instrument
   is done, so what can the luthier still do?

   I'd be glad to find out what changes you asked for in the past, or what
   you think is still possible to do.

   Thanks a lot!

   Best regards

   Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Builder of Hard Cases

[Jurgen Frenz]

thanks for sharing the info, his cases look really solid and the price is very 
close to Kingham cases.
J


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 6 September 2018 3:21 PM,  wrote:

> Hi, Pierre Rousseau is in France, but his alu cases are famous (strong,
> light and not that expensive...). I have one for my viola da gamba.
> http://pierre.fab.free.fr/luth.html
> Grüsse aus Barcelona!
>
> El 06-09-2018 07:04, Sebastian Minkhart escribió:
>
> > Hello!
> > I am looking for a good builder of hardcases for Lutes and Theorbes,
> > preferably in western Germany, Netherlands Belgium. Probably with
> > quite short delivery times, certainly not years.
> > Best Regards from the Eifel
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: The illusory truth effect [was: Re: Francesco//Siena 62 - "5th Mode" - Raga Kamod

[Jurgen Frenz]

Dear Tristan,

in all respect I strongly believe you're a victim of the described illusory 
truth effect. History tells us that the first Europeans to be in direct contact 
with the Indian subcontinent were the Portuguese starting a trading post in 
Calcutta in 1505 for spices (clove to start with). The British followed in 
1605. I simply and categorically refuse to spend time on thinking of an Indian 
influence in a 1540 fantasia by Milano, regardless of how many times you repeat 
that 'it's obvious, one just would need to listen carefully enough.'
I do not belittle or question the honesty of your research, I just refuse to 
believe the impossible.

Please let us not continue exchanging arguments, there was a period of that a 
few months ago and it didn't lead anywhere.

Best regards and respectfully
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 9 August 2018 9:26 PM, Tristan von Neumann  wrote:

> Dear Jürgen,
>
> posting an article about the Illusory Truth Effect does not in anyway
> touch my findings, as the mere existence of such effect does enable you
> to apply it to everything you disagree with.
> If you disagree, you are welcome to discuss the claims on the subject
> itself, otherwise it is not helpful.
> It's like applying the phrase "Most conspiracy theories have no basis"
> to every claim that disagrees with reported events, regardless of the
> validity of the claim.
>
> Anyway, if my findings were null and void, you could also throw many
> commonly done things into the bin:
> The search for "vocal models of fantasias" is the same thing. If a
> soggetto and subsequent similar harmonic structure with motifs from a
> chanson make the Fantasy based on that chanson are accepted, why do you
> deny any connection with Indian music?
>
> From my point of view, the similarity of many ricercars and fantasies
> of the 16th century stem from the common Raga models used as the
> framework of a composition. The Siena Ms. is a model example of this
> similarity, and the book is even organized to display these similarities.
> The unclear concept of "mode" in the 16th century with the disagreement
> of cadence points etc. makes sense if mode is used as a concept like
> Raga. Different cadence points in the same scale are hallmarks of
> different Ragas. European theorists thought in terms of scale.
> This is also a problem in modern Indian musicology, because Bhatkhande
> organized the music in 10 scales that don't distinguish enough the
> properties of Ragas because up and down scales are often different.
> The difference between up and down scale is to my knowledge not
> recognized enough by European theorists either, hence the problematic
> concept of mode.
>
> From a historical standpoint, I am waiting to be able to cite from Lisa
> Herrmann-Fertig's upcoming dissertation, as she already found what I was
> looking for - historical musical transfers and proof of early deep
> reception of Indian music.
>
> So please Jurgen, if you already recognize that this is least fitting
> together, why not do something productive like play Fantasies in Indian
> tempo, or even to Ragas to see what it's like?
> The whole idea is to find ways to play this music together live.
>
> The York festival recently had a "Dhrupad - Renaissance" concert where
> Indian music and Renaissance Music were played side by side, though not
> simultaneously. It's only a matter of time until someone does live what
> I do in the mashups.
> Said concert will be broadcast in September on BBC, I'll post the link then.
>
> http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/16352971.review-york-early-music-festival-hathor-consort-dhrupad-fantasia-gloriana-and-akbar-the-great-national-centre-for-early-music/
>
> Am 09.08.2018 um 07:11 schrieb Jurgen Frenz:
>
> > For what it's worth, here is a reminder of an experiment how false claims, 
> > repeated over and over again, become accepted by some individuals. Tristan, 
> > I see your attempts to convince people precisely in this line of practice.
> > To simply your google research, here's a link to a wiki article
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect
> > Enjoy reading
> > Jurgen
> >
> > “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”
> > Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On 9 August 2018 2:07 AM, Tristan von Neumann tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This version is even better.
> > > Imagine this is the late 16th century singing by the Donne di Ferrara or
> > > similar groups...
> > > https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/fr

[LUTE] The illusory truth effect [was: Re: Francesco//Siena 62 - "5th Mode" - Raga Kamod

[Jurgen Frenz]

For what it's worth, here is a reminder of an experiment how false claims, 
repeated over and over again, become accepted by some individuals. Tristan, I 
see your attempts to convince people precisely in this line of practice.

To simply your google research, here's a link to a wiki article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect

Enjoy reading
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 9 August 2018 2:07 AM, Tristan von Neumann  wrote:

> This version is even better.
>
> Imagine this is the late 16th century singing by the Donne di Ferrara or
> similar groups...
>
> https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/francesco-siena-no-62-eri-jaane-na-doongi-raga-kamod-nirali-kartik-version-iii
>
> Am 08.08.2018 um 19:22 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:
>
> > Dear Lutists,
> > Francesco and Ganassi fans will rejoice over this sweet unification as
> > Ronu Majumdar plays quite some improv "over" the Francesco background.
> > https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/siena-62-francesco-raga-kamod-ronu-majumdar
> > Sorry for the not so beautiful playing, it's quite heavy for me to
> > concentrate on the groove while playing right.
> > But I hope to prove a point - that is that the criteria of choice in the
> > Siena Ms. seem to be conciously implying that modes also have a certain
> > overarching structure that must be followed, hence the great similarity
> > in many of the fantasies of the same mode.
> > Maybe a better lutist than yours truly can do a better mix - the Raga is
> > to be found on youtube and can be used as a playback.
> > I did not change the pitch, so this should work with a G lute.
> > Also other places to insert this or similar fantasies may appear when
> > trying something.
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bartolotti [Was: Re: Composers you wish had a bigger legacy

[Jurgen Frenz]

I'm just googling around for Bartolotti's works and I only found paid versions 
on sites that just repost the faksimile. Would anybody here have a link to an 
online downloadable source of either book (Florence 1640 and Rome 1655)?

Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 8 August 2018 9:45 AM, Braig, Eugene  wrote:

> Well, not individual pieces, but a cycle when taken in whole. His first 
> guitar book opens with a set of 24 passacaglias spanning all keys, the last 
> few bars of each modulating to the next implying the possibility of through 
> performance of any select set in series.
>
> Best,
> Eugene
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mayes, Joseph ma...@rowan.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 10:24 PM
> To: Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu; Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
> Cc: Lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Composers you wish had a bigger legacy
>
> OK I completely agree that Bartolotti is a wonderful and underappreciated 
> composer. But I have not encountered much chromatic music. Of course, I am 
> only familiar with his guitar music - are we talking about something else?
>
> Joseph Mayes
>
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of 
> Christopher Wilke chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 11:48 AM
> To: Braig, Eugene
> Cc: Lutelist Net
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Composers you wish had a bigger legacy
>
> I move that Bartolotti be posthumously be given a "Chromy" award for
> his contribution to chromatic music. May his rainbow-color bust now
> join the ones of Gesualdo, Wagner and Schoenberg already in the
> Chromatic Composers Hall of Fame.
> Chris
> [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Tuesday, August 7, 2018, 9:43 AM, Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu
> wrote:
>
> Ludovico Roncalli: same.
>
> I also wish Angiol Michele Bartolotti was better recognized for his
> contribution to fully chromatic music.
>
> Eugene
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> On
> Behalf Of Ido Shdaimah
>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 9:03 AM
>
> To: lutelist Net <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Composers you wish had a bigger legacy
>
> Giovanni Zamboni: only one book (though still a lot more than
>
> others...).
>
> --
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> ---
>
> References
>
> 1.  https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
> 2.  mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3.  mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 4.  mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 5.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: The Dark Lord;'s Music

[Jurgen Frenz]

How does it compare to Paul O'Dette recording of the Cherbury Lute book?
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 1 August 2018 8:56 AM, Tristan von Neumann  wrote:

> Today, the CD arrived in the mail.
>
> Thank you Martin Eastwell for this fine recording.
> I like the atmosphere, neither too near to or too far from the mic, and
> with a clear distinction, not drowning in echo.
>
> As for the interpretation, I like the varietie of styles.
> I like the folksy guitaristic approach to some dances, and some
> fantasies are played with a sweet brooding mood.
>
> I would recommend this album for anyone who wants a closer look at the
> sounds of Herbert's album.
>
> Am 14.07.2018 um 22:42 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:
>
> > I just bought one - the price was very reasonable.
> > Couldn't prelisten, but I trust You must be a good lute player because
> > these pieces are extremely tricky.
> > I would love to play these, but I guess it will take more time, so I at
> > least want to listen to them.
> > One piece I would have liked to hear, the Prelude of Preludes by
> > Diomedes. But You can't have everything :)
> > Am 14.07.2018 um 22:22 schrieb Martin Eastwell:
> >
> > > Hi!
> > > LORD HERBERT of CHERBURY LUTEBOOK-new CD
> > > I'm delighted to announce the release on the MMC label of "The Dark
> > > Lord's Music", containing twenty of the finest works from Lord
> > > Herbert's Lutebook. It is available to purchase online from most major
> > > sources-Amazon, Presto, HMV etc, or direct from the record company
> > > website-
> > > http://www.musicandmediaconsulting.com/mmc-recordings/the-dark-lords-music-the-lutebook-of-edward-lord-herbert-of-cherbury/
> > > http://www.musicandmediaconsulting.com/mmc-recordings/the-dark-lords-music-the-lutebook-of-edward-lord-herbert-of-cherbury/
> > > It is also available to download from most major download sources.
> > > I’ve placed three tracks from the recording on my website-do have a
> > > listen….preferably not on laptop speakers!
> > > www.martineastwell.com/recordings
> > > http://www.martineastwell.com/recordings
> > > Enjoy!
> > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: bergamasca

[Jurgen Frenz]

lute & kora wow - that is interesting and should sound great. Keep us posted!
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 26 July 2018 6:20 PM, Martin Shepherd  wrote:

> Thanks to all who replied.
>
> I've now gone off in a slightly different direction with the John
> Johnson(?) setting of Conde claros from the Marsh lute book.
>
> Just in case you're wondering, my son Hugh is hoping to include some
> lute and kora duets in his final dissertation.
>
> Martin
>
>
> -
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: bergamasca

[Jurgen Frenz]

Very generous advice, thank you! I will go there and have a close look.

Best
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 26 July 2018 2:17 PM, Alain Veylit  wrote:

> Jurgen,
>
> It's an old trick: make your URLs super-long so they are broken by a
> line break.  Hence the expression: broken links.
>
> Case in point, the Besard Bergamasque from the Thesaurus Harmonicus,
> also a very worthwhile piece:
>
> http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/French/Thesaurus_Harmonicus/Thesaurus_harmonicus-229.jpg
> (A digital copy of the whole Thesaurus Harmonicus is available in color
> at
> https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1153999z.r=thesaurus 
> harmonicus?rk=42918;4)
>
> There are several Bergamasques by Kapsberger, 2 by J.B. Besard, 1 by
> Gorzanis, 1 by Piccinini, a couple in the Danzig MS 4022, and some
> English duets kind of tagging along ... It might make an interesting
> ground for a concert on a theme (or an interesting theme for a concert
> on a ground...)
>
> On 07/25/2018 09:30 PM, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
>
> > oops sorry part of the link was gone it's all there, thanks a lot!
> > Jurgen
> >
> > “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”
> > Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On 26 July 2018 12:32 AM, Alain Veylit al...@musickshandmade.com wrote:
> >
> > > I think this is the one - famously used by Respighi in his Ancient Airs
> > > and Dances
> > > [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianon
> > > celli/G_P8.jpg
> > > [2]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianon
> > > celli/G_P9.jpg
> > > On 07/25/2018 04:30 AM, Luca Manassero wrote:
> > > Very interesting!
> > > Could you or somebody else on this list provide the original?
> > > thank you in advance!
> > > Luca
> > >  On mer, 25 lug 2018 11:51:45 +0200
> > > spiffys84121[3]spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote 
> > > The Gianoncelli Bergamesca from 1650 for archlute is superb. I played
> > > it last month for O'dette's master class.
> > > Sterling
> > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> > >  Original message 
> > > From: Martin Shepherd [4]<[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
> > > Date: 7/25/18 3:31 AM (GMT-07:00)
> > > To: Lute List [5]<[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > Subject: [LUTE] bergamasca
> > > Hi All,
> > > Can anyone recommend a Bergamasca (or whatever you want to call it with
> > > a I-IV-V bass) in F, preferably early, preferably Italian?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > > [3][6]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > [4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1.  [8]mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> > >
> > > 2.  [9]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >
> > > 3.  [10]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > >
> > > 4.  [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > --
> > > References
> > >
> > > 5.  
> > > http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianoncelli/G_P8.jpg
> > >
> > > 6.  
> > > http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianoncelli/G_P9.jpg
> > >
> > > 7.  mailto:spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >
> > > 8.  mailto:[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> > >
> > > 9.  mailto:[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >
> > > 10.  https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > >
> > > 11.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >
> > > 12.  mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> > >
> > > 13.  mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >
> > > 14.  https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > >
> > > 15.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >

[LUTE] Re: bergamasca

[Jurgen Frenz]

oops sorry part of the link was gone it's all there, thanks a lot!
Jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 26 July 2018 12:32 AM, Alain Veylit  wrote:

> I think this is the one - famously used by Respighi in his Ancient Airs
> and Dances
>
> [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianon
> celli/G_P8.jpg
>
> [2]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianon
> celli/G_P9.jpg
>
> On 07/25/2018 04:30 AM, Luca Manassero wrote:
>
> Very interesting!
> Could you or somebody else on this list provide the original?
> thank you in advance!
> Luca
>  On mer, 25 lug 2018 11:51:45 +0200
> spiffys84121[3]spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote 
>
> The Gianoncelli Bergamesca from 1650 for archlute is superb. I played
> it last month for O'dette's master class.
> Sterling
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>  Original message 
> From: Martin Shepherd [4]<[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
> Date: 7/25/18 3:31 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: Lute List [5]<[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Subject: [LUTE] bergamasca
> Hi All,
> Can anyone recommend a Bergamasca (or whatever you want to call it with
> a I-IV-V bass) in F, preferably early, preferably Italian?
> Thanks,
> Martin
>
> -
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> [3][6]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> ---
>
> References
>
> 1.  [8]mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> 2.  [9]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3.  [10]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 4.  [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 5.  
> http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianoncelli/G_P8.jpg
> 6.  
> http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianoncelli/G_P9.jpg
> 7.  mailto:spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 8.  mailto:[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> 9.  mailto:[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 10.  https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 11.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 12.  mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> 13.  mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 14.  https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 15.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: bergamasca

[Jurgen Frenz]

Sorry your links create a "not found" error



--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On 26 July 2018 12:32 AM, Alain Veylit  wrote:

> I think this is the one - famously used by Respighi in his Ancient Airs
> and Dances
>
> [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianon
> celli/G_P8.jpg
>
> [2]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianon
> celli/G_P9.jpg
>
> On 07/25/2018 04:30 AM, Luca Manassero wrote:
>
> Very interesting!
> Could you or somebody else on this list provide the original?
> thank you in advance!
> Luca
>  On mer, 25 lug 2018 11:51:45 +0200
> spiffys84121[3]spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote 
>
> The Gianoncelli Bergamesca from 1650 for archlute is superb. I played
> it last month for O'dette's master class.
> Sterling
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>  Original message 
> From: Martin Shepherd [4]<[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
> Date: 7/25/18 3:31 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: Lute List [5]<[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Subject: [LUTE] bergamasca
> Hi All,
> Can anyone recommend a Bergamasca (or whatever you want to call it with
> a I-IV-V bass) in F, preferably early, preferably Italian?
> Thanks,
> Martin
>
> -
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> [3][6]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> ---
>
> References
>
> 1.  [8]mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> 2.  [9]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3.  [10]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 4.  [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 5.  
> http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianoncelli/G_P8.jpg
> 6.  
> http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/images/facsimiles/Italian/Gianoncelli/G_P9.jpg
> 7.  mailto:spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 8.  mailto:[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> 9.  mailto:[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 10.  https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 11.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 12.  mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
> 13.  mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 14.  https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 15.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] sound production and reproduction on the lute (an excellent complement to Martin Shephards latest "silence" blog)

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello there,

   I was notified of a publication on academia.edu - the book is _really_
   not bad at all in spite of the ridiculous cover and confusing title. It
   treats sound production as right hand technique on the lute and how
   instructions found in modern methods compare to original sources. It
   further touches on strings, wood choice and other instrument
   construction elements, room acoustics and the sound recording process.
   In addition the book sheds light on psychological factors and
   biological make-up of the player. Ok it is not written in an academic
   style, it reads like the cover more like an entertaining holiday
   literature. But what is wrong with that. One may argue there are better
   books on each individual aspect of sound production but I found the
   publication to be a handy overview. Besides, it's a free download.

   Jean-Marie's collection of images get a mention, so do Martin
   Shephard's and David's van Oojen's videos.

   [1]https://www.academia.edu/36929727/Informed_Play_Approaching_a_Concep
   t_and_Biology_of_Tone_Production_on_Early_Modern_Lute_Instruments_Norwa
   y_Cappelen_Damm_Akademisk_-_NOASP_2018_?auto=download=weekly_d
   igest

   Best wishes

   Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

References

   1. 
https://www.academia.edu/36929727/Informed_Play_Approaching_a_Concept_and_Biology_of_Tone_Production_on_Early_Modern_Lute_Instruments_Norway_Cappelen_Damm_Akademisk_-_NOASP_2018_?auto=download=weekly_digest


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Portuguise gitar and Yamaha G1

[Jurgen Frenz]

There are interesting options with today's guitar technology. I use a Cordoba 
"mini" travel guitar for finding fingerings, writing tabs etc on my desk where 
I wouldn't like to take my lute because of reduced space and the too high 
humidity. That guitar with the a string length of 55cm comes with specially 
designed Aquila strings to tune it in A. I tune those strings down to 
renaissance tuning in G, the string tension is even more comfortable. Using the 
strap to suspend the guitar on me allows to use thumb out as well.

Best
Jurgen

​--

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 6 July 2018 4:04 AM, G. C.  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> after attending a concert including a portuguise guitar, I was
> 
> positively surprised to realise, that this rare metal strung instrument
> 
> is also traditionally played using the thumb-in technique!
> 
> And after aquiring a Yamaha G1 guitalele, I was equally surprised, that
> 
> I could play difficult lute pieces satisfactorily on such a tiny and
> 
> cheap instrument. (Getting a noticeable pain in the left wrist
> 
> afterwards though, which was quite a deception!)
> 
> G.
> 
> 
> -
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> 
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Siena Lute Book

[Jurgen Frenz]

Please can you link to Göran Crona edit? I only know of Jason Curtis' work 
which is uploaded on the Fronimo Yahoo! group.

Jurgen


​--

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 22 June 2018 3:15 AM, mathias.roe...@t-online.de 
 wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Yes, Goeran Crona did it IIRC.
> 
> Mathias
> 
> __
> 
> Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
> 
> --- Original-Nachricht ---
> 
> Von: mathias.roe...@t-online.de
> 
> Betreff: Re: Siena Lute Book
> 
> Datum: 21.06.2018, 22:12 Uhr
> 
> An: Leonard Williams
> 
> Yes. Goeran Crona did it IIRC.
> 
> Mathias
> 
> __
> 
> Gesendet mit der [2]Telekom Mail App
> 
> --- Original-Nachricht ---
> 
> Von: Leonard Williams
> 
> Betreff: [LUTE] Siena Lute Book
> 
> Datum: 21.06.2018, 21:58 Uhr
> 
> An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 
> Is there a published French tab version of the Siena book available?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Leonard Williams
> 
> 
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> 
> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> -
> 
> References
> 
> 1.  
> https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
> 2.  
> https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
> 3.  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Meaning of title "Silva de Sirenas"

[Jurgen Frenz]

Dimitri,
I think you nailed it. Thanks a lot!

Jurgen


​--

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 12 April 2018 4:10 AM, <d.p.medve...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I am not an expert in Spanish but, as far as I understand, "silva" means
> 
> simply "collection" (primarily of poetry, but in this case of music).
> 
> It probably derives from the Latin word for "forest" (as a "collection" of
> 
> trees), but I would not translate it literally.
> 
> There are a number of similar titles from about the same period:
> 
> "Silva de varios romances"
> 
> "Silva de poesía"
> 
> etc.
> 
> So, I would translate the title as "A collection [of songs] of the sirens".
> 
> Dmitry
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of
> 
> Jurgen Frenz
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:36 PM
> 
> To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 
> Subject: [LUTE] Meaning of title "Silva de Sirenas"
> 
> Hello there,
> 
> another thread on this list motivated me to ask - the title of
> 
> Valderrabano's publication "Silva de Sirenas" renders if latin was the
> 
> source language "Arctic Forest" which I would find hard to believe and
> 
> nothing when setting Google translate to Spanish as source.
> 
> artic google.png
> 
> Hence my suspicion that 500 year old Spanish was using words
> 
> differently. But what does the title mean in English (German/French)
> 
> today? Would anybody know?
> 
> Thanks for helping, best wishes
> 
> Jurgen
> 
> 
> -
> 
> "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
> 
> JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> 
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Meaning of title "Silva de Sirenas"

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Hello there,

   another thread on this list motivated me to ask - the title of
   Valderrabano's publication "Silva de Sirenas" renders if latin was the
   source language "Arctic Forest" which I would find hard to believe and
   _nothing_ when setting Google translate to Spanish as source.

   artic google.png

   Hence my suspicion that 500 year old Spanish was using words
   differently. But what does the title mean in English (German/French)
   today? Would anybody know?

   Thanks for helping, best wishes

   Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Cosens

[Jurgen Frenz]

Sarge Gerbode has a cleaned-up version of the facsimile on his site, you may 
compare it with what you have access to

http://gerbode.net/facsimiles/cambridge_university_library/MS_Add_3056_cosens_lute_book/

Jurgen


​--

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 7 April 2018 2:30 AM, Nancy Carlin  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> This is available from the LSA Microfilm Library now. Cosens has some
> 
> really nice music in it. My favorite is the Frog Galliard, with some
> 
> interesting divisions.
> 
> If you are OK waiting a bit the LSA is in the process of digitizing the
> 
> whole Microfilm Library and it will be online and available to members. 
> 
> Since it's a big library this will take a while. If you are in a hurry
> 
> you can borrow the microfilm from the library now and take it to a
> 
> library with a microfilm reader.  Some of the machines print pages, but
> 
> I have also seen people taking pictures of the things on the screens
> 
> with their phones.
> 
> Nancy
> 
> > Is there available a good facsimile of Cosens lutebok (GB-Cu
> > Add.3056)?  The one available from Scribd is not all that clear (high
> > contrast B/W), and I'm not sure it can be downloaded from the Cambridge
> > U site.
> > 
> >Any sources or ideas?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Leonard Williams
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > 
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > 
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> --
> 
> Nancy Carlin
> 
> Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
> 
> http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org
> 
> PO Box 6499
> 
> Concord, CA 94524
> 
> USA
> 
> 925 / 686-5800
> 
> www.groundsanddivisions.info
> 
> www.nancycarlinassociates.com

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Jurgen Frenz]

oops I was ignorant about this - thank you Martyn!
Jurgen


​\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 16 March 2018 3:52 PM, Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Dear Jurgen,
> 
> A 1986 (modern?) paraphrase of a Wolf song for 13 course Dm lute is
> 
> found on the Lute Society site.
> 
> Look under Lute Society free downloads. Cut and paste these into your
> 
> browser
> 
> \[1\]http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/free-downloads
> 
> \[2\]http://www.lutesociety.org/vanilla/lutesoc/uploads/members-compositi
> 
> ons/martyn-hodgson/Paraphrase%20on%20Wolf%20Dm%20lute.pdf
> 
> MH
> 
> \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
> 
> From: Jurgen Frenz eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> 
> To: Tristan von Neumann tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> 
> Cc: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 
> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2018, 8:23
> 
> Subject: \[LUTE\] Re: Some questions
> 
> There are many great songs by Hugo Wolf - the piano score would need to
> 
> be reduced in ambitus to fit in the range of any lute.
> 
> Johann Kaspar Mertz is the only "real" guitar composer of the romantic
> 
> period AND often (not all of it) is fairly hard to play. What is even
> 
> more interesting about Mertz is that all of his work is online on the
> 
> Swedish academy of music and drama.
> 
> â--
> 
> "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
> 
> JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumiâ
> 
> âââ Original Message âââ
> 
> On 16 March 2018 7:22 AM, Tristan von Neumann
> 
> <\[3\]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> > ââ
> 
> > 
> 
> > Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on
> 
> > 
> 
> > the lute :)
> 
> > 
> 
> > I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute,
> 
> > 
> 
> > though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.
> 
> > 
> 
> > \[4\]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
> 
> > 
> 
> > This song deserves a lute version:
> 
> > 
> 
> > \[5\]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
> 
> > 
> 
> > Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of
> 
> a
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille
> 
> aux
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my
> 
> own
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few
> 
> more
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to
> 
> contemporary
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > lute music and related topics ?"
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Dan
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, \[6\]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > > That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > RT
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron
> 
> \[7\]andricopraelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> > > > > 
> 
> > > > > The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.
> 
> > > > > 
> 
> > > > > RA
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > \[8\]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> --
> 
> References
> 
> 1.  http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/free-downloads
> 2.  
> http://www.lutesociety.org/vanilla/lutesoc/uploads/members-compositions/martyn-hodgson/Paraphrase
>  on Wolf Dm lute.pdf
> 3.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 4.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 5.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 6.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 7.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 8.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Jurgen Frenz]

There are many great songs by Hugo Wolf - the piano score would need to be 
reduced in ambitus to fit in the range of any lute.

Johann Kaspar Mertz is the only "real" guitar composer of the romantic period 
AND often (not all of it)  is fairly hard to play. What is even more 
interesting about Mertz is that all of his work is online on the Swedish 
academy of music and drama.

​\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 16 March 2018 7:22 AM, Tristan von Neumann  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on
> 
> the lute :)
> 
> I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.
> 
> Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute,
> 
> though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
> 
> This song deserves a lute version:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
> 
> Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
> 
> > I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of a
> > 
> > post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but
> > 
> > perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille aux
> > 
> > cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my own
> > 
> > transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few more
> > 
> > worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...
> > 
> > "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to contemporary
> > 
> > lute music and related topics ?"
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
> > > 
> > > RT
> > > 
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > 
> > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron andricopraelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.
> > > > 
> > > > RA
> > > 
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > 
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Cavalcanti

[Jurgen Frenz]

   I was looking at the OPAC of the royal library in Brussels, but there
   seems to be no facsimile online. Does anybody know of a facsimile
   somewhere on the net? Maybe the manuscript isn't (quote Arthur N.)
   "very exciting" but maybe the lute songs are interesting

   Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

    Original Message 

   On 21 January 2018 7:48 PM, Arthur Ness 
   wrote:

   Tristan, You can always turn the Italian tablature upside down and play
   backwards. It's been done.

   Perhaps an efficient way to learn Italian tablature is to imagine it
   representing the fingerboard as your teacher shows you fingerings while
   seated opposite. Those pitches are "upside down" also, but in terms of
   the lute will feel "right-side up." Tablature is finger notation, and
   it is French tablature that is upside down. Oh well. . . .

   ajn
   -Original Message-
   From: Tristan von Neumann [1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de

   To: lutelist Net [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

   Sent: Sat, Jan 20, 2018 12:56 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Cavalcanti
   Dude, you know, everything is upside down? It's just very unintuitive
   for me if the notes go up, Italian tabs go down.
   I'll take a facsimile too, but I'd rather set in in French then myself.
   Am 20.01.2018 um 17:39 schrieb spiffys84121:

   You know- if you can count to 12--- you can read Italian

   tabð¤ð¤ð¤

   Sterling

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 

   From: Tristan von Neumann <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>

   Date: 1/20/18 6:15 AM (GMT-07:00)

   To: lutelist Net <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

   Subject: [LUTE] Cavalcanti

   Just curious: Is there a French tab transcription of the Cavalcanti

   Lute

   Book? Is there a facsimile somewhere on the net?...

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [3][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



   References

1. [4]mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
2. [5]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: left hand exercise

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Thank you for sharing. Yes technical exercises is not everybody's
   approach. But I do think that _A LITTLE_ of it every day surely is
   beneficial.

   Best

   Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

    Original Message 

   Subject: [LUTE] left hand exercise

   Local Time: 6 January 2018 10:27 PM

   UTC Time: 6 January 2018 15:27

   From: davidvanooi...@gmail.com

   To: lutelist Net 

   As said before, I'm not much into exercises on the lute, lifting wine
   glasses and turning pages is about as sporty as it goes for me, but I
   currently have an on-line pupil who likes to have some. I made her
   this, beneficial for left-hand posture, slurs, ornaments, keeping
   fingers close to the fingerboard, killing time and feeling good about
   doing workout without having to go to the gym:
   [1][1]https://youtu.be/ZulNNDwYK08
   Ideally to be played in any key you can think of, singing along with
   the right note names, and in any rhythm you feel is today's rhythm.
   David
 __

   David van Ooijen
   [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [3][2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
 __



   References

1. [3]https://youtu.be/ZulNNDwYK08
2. [4]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
3. [5]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/


   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. https://youtu.be/ZulNNDwYK08
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. https://youtu.be/ZulNNDwYK08
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire

[Jurgen Frenz]

   You may check Gerbode's Excel file and sort it by difficulty. He has
   ratings of 1...6 and sometimes they are _very_ subjective but it may
   help to get an idea of the degree of challenge of the individual piece.

   Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

    Original Message 

   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire

   Local Time: 5 December 2017 3:41 AM

   UTC Time: 4 December 2017 20:41

   From: brai...@osu.edu

   To: lutelist Net 

   I love the vihuelists (especially Narvaez and Mudarra: I see you've
   already listed one [Milan]). Among the unsung (or at least less-often
   sung), I'm particularly fond of Valentin Bakfark. Bakfark may be a
   little more on the challenging side, but not so much as Melchior
   Neusidler.
   Carry on,
   Eugene
   -Original Message-
   From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann
   Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 3:18 PM
   To: lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire
   Here's a poll for Renaissance Lutists -
   what do you consider most rewarding to play in terms of playability
   combined with beauty?
   So far, I love Francesco da Milano and most anonymous pieces from the
   Siena Ms., they never get tiresome and lie gently on the hands.
   Also Hans Neusiedler and Luis Milan.
   Not in this category: Albert de Rippe. Amazing music, but honestly, did
   this guy have six fingers on each hand??
   What are your favourites? Is there any obscure repertoire to discover?
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Insights about tablatures dataset

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Apart from the language, what is the difference between your dataset
   and the Excel document that he updates with every new instalment?

   Jurgen

   --
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

    Original Message 

   Subject: [LUTE] Insights about tablatures dataset

   Local Time: 29 November 2017 5:44 AM

   UTC Time: 28 November 2017 22:44

   From: dmorale...@cuerdaspulsadas.com

   To: List LUTELIST 

   Dear list.

   Let me please, first of all, share with you that we (Cuerdas Pulsadas)

   are celebrating the seven years anniversary and we are offering 20%

   discount on all our catalog till 30th November.

   Besides this announcement, I also would like to share with you some

   insights about the tablatures collection on Sarge Gerbode's website.

   Some years ago I worked on a [1]search engine for this collection and

   now I have worked on the dataset to create some interesting charts.

   This is not a formal or comprenhensive analysis and I am not en expert

   neither, so my only intention is to have some fun with this dataset.

   I hope that you will enjoy it too.

   Here you have the post. It's written in spanish, but automatic

   translation is available on the top left corner.

   [2][1]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/un-analisis-de-la-coleccion-de-tab
   lat

   uras-de-sarge-gerbode/

   Regards.

   Cuerdas Pulsadas

   [3][2]www.cuerdaspulsadas.com || [4]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com

   [5]BLOG || [6]AGENDA || [7]TIMELINE

   [8]blog [9]facebook [10]twitter [11]instagram

   References

1. [3]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/buscador-de-tablaturas/
2. [4]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/un-analisis-de-la-coleccion-de-ta
   blaturas-de-sarge-gerbode/
3. [5]http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.com/
4. [6]mailto:h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
5. [7]http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog
6. [8]http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/agenda/
7. [9]http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.com/timeline
8. [10]http://.cuerdaspulsadas.com/blog
9. [11]http://www.facebook.com/cuerdaspulsadas
   10. [12]http://www.twitter.com/cuerdaspulsadas
   11. [13]http://www.instagram.com/cuerdaspulsadas
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/un-analisis-de-la-coleccion-de-tablat
   2. http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.com/
   3. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/buscador-de-tablaturas/
   4. 
http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/un-analisis-de-la-coleccion-de-tablaturas-de-sarge-gerbode/
   5. http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.com/
   6. mailto:h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
   7. http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog
   8. http://cuerdaspulsadas.es/blog/agenda/
   9. http://www.cuerdaspulsadas.com/timeline
  10. http://.cuerdaspulsadas.com/blog
  11. http://www.facebook.com/cuerdaspulsadas
  12. http://www.twitter.com/cuerdaspulsadas
  13. http://www.instagram.com/cuerdaspulsadas
  14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: new videos

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Dear Martin,

   very generous of you and very instructive. Thank you very much,

   Jurgen

   "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I
   will meet you there."

   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi

    Original Message 

   Subject: [LUTE] new videos

   Local Time: 29 October 2017 4:15 PM

   UTC Time: 29 October 2017 09:15

   From: mar...@luteshop.co.uk

   To: Lute List 

   Dear All,

   Hot off the press, three new videos in Luteshop's "top tips" series:

   [1][1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCAq85OQgA

   [2][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgoyIhljqoc

   [3][3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC67RzwR_-g

   Best wishes,

   Martin

   Virus-free. [4][4]www.avast.com

   References
   Visible links

1. [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCAq85OQgA
2. [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgoyIhljqoc
3. [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC67RzwR_-g
4. [8]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link
   _campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient
   Hidden links:
5. [9]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link
   _campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient
6. file://localhost/net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L27179-9060TMP.html#DAB4FAD
   8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCAq85OQgA
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgoyIhljqoc
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC67RzwR_-g
   4. http://www.avast.com/
   5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCAq85OQgA
   6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgoyIhljqoc
   7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC67RzwR_-g
   8. 
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient
   9. 
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: "Sting Effect" (was Direwolf Hall)

[Jurgen Frenz]

   In my opinion, only a handful of extremists claiming to defend the
   purity of the music would belittle Sting's recording. Even some of the
   terrifying recordings of lute music by some real bad players on YouTube
   have a least one positive impact: On the player him/herself. The
   'knowing' public smiles at awful performances and moves on (the folks I
   know do), in no way even these people don't bring down lute music or
   Mr. Dowland or anybody else.

   If there's only one player (and apparently there's one on this list)
   who was moved by Sting's recording to pick up the lute then there is a
   positive impact on the public. And as far as the purity of any early
   music is concerned: Let's listen to some identical Dowland pieces
   recorded recently say by O'Dette and Hopkinson. They sound complete
   different and I think it is great that they do. With the distance of
   over 400 years and the lost knowledge of the time we discover and bring
   out things in the music that we find remarkable today - if Mr. Dowland
   or Francesco or whoever had that in mind is nothing to be concerned
   about. We live the music now and it is the best service that we can do
   to  early music - which is keeping it alive.

   Just my opinion as said in the beginning.

   Best

   Jurgen

   "You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the entire ocean in a drop"
   Rumi

    Original Message 

   Subject: [LUTE] Re: "Sting Effect" (was Direwolf Hall)

   Local Time: 8 September 2017 9:44 AM

   UTC Time: 8 September 2017 02:44

   From: tristanvonneum...@gmx.de

   To: lutelist Net 

   Sting raised at least my interest in the Lute.

   Mainly because of Karamazov, but still.

   It also led to "Singer-Songwriter Time Travels",

   a series of concerts where contemporary singer-songwriters

   were covering old Lute songs or similar Early Music.

   This worked surprisingly well.

   Am 07.09.2017 um 23:26 schrieb G. C.:

   > Harsh words, I liked Sting"s effort. Karamazow also made a fine
   input.

   > On the whole, lute-propagating I think.

   > G.

   >

   > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:18 PM, LSA Lute Rental Program

   > <[1]lsaluteren...@gmail.com> wrote:

   >

   > no effect noticed. Perhaps that is because Sting did neither

   > Dowland

   > nor the lute any service? Not an "artist" I would have chosen

   > to sing

   > Dowland...or anything else for that matter.

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Sermisy=27s_D=27o=C3=B9_vient_cela?=

[Jurgen Frenz]

   The same is true for "d'ou vient cela", it's no. 23

   "You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the entire ocean in a drop"
   Rumi

    Original Message 

   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sermisy's_D'où_vient_cela?=

   Local Time: July 26, 2017 12:27 PM

   UTC Time: July 26, 2017 5:27 AM

   From: tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp

   To: 'Edward C. Yong' , 'Lute List'
   

   Hello,

   Solo voice and lute version of Tant que Vivray is included in

   "Tres breve et familiere intrducion, Attaignant, Paris 1529".

   Minkoff edition.

   Toshiaki Kakinami

   -Original Message-

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
   Behalf

   Of Edward C. Yong

   Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 11:59 AM

   To: Lute List

   Subject: [LUTE] Sermisy's_D'où_vient_cela?=

   Hello!

   Years ago I had the London Pro Musica edition of Sermisy"s D"oãδã±
   vient

   cela - it came together with Tant que vivray in a nice SATB version

   with a solo voice plus lute insert. I can"t now find that insert. Tant

   que vivray is everywhere on the internet but not

   D"oãδ㱠vient cela. Would anyone have it in electronic form anywhere?

   Many thanks in advance!

   Edward C. Yong

   --

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Facsimile links to lute sources

[Jurgen Frenz]

   Thanks Anthony,

   that's quite a wonderful resource.

   Best regards

   Jurgen

   "You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the entire ocean in a drop"
   Rumi

    Original Message 

   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Facsimile links to lute sources

   Local Time: June 14, 2017 10:16 AM

   UTC Time: June 14, 2017 2:16 AM

   From: christophertstet...@gmail.com

   To: Anthony Hart , Lute List
   

   This is wonderful, Anthony, but now the link appears to be broken, at

   least on my Chrome browser. Would you mind resending it?

   Best,

   Chris.

   On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Anthony Hart

   [1]anthony.hart1...@gmail.com wrote:

   I was browsing for copies of links to facsimiles and came across

   this

   website. It contains links to original lute books etc held by the

   major

   libraries throughout the world.

   Maybe it is already known but I thought I would share.

   [1][2]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links

   --

   

   __

   Anthony Hart MSc, LLCM,ALCM.

   Musicologist and Independent Researcher

   Highrise Court "B", Apt 2, Tigne" Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA

   Mob: [3]+356 9944 9552.

   e-mail: [2][4]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:

   [3][5]www.monsignor-reggio.com

   NEW Publications: EDIZIONE ANTONINO REGGIO

   - [4][6]www.edizionear.com

   for information and special offer

   --

   References

   1. [7]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links

   2. mailto:[8]resea...@antoninoreggio.com

   3. [9]http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/

   4. [10]http://www.edizionear.com/

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

   References

   1. mailto:anthony.hart1...@gmail.com

   2. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links

   3. tel:+356 9944 9552

   4. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com

   5. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/

   6. http://www.edizionear.com/

   7. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links

   8. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com

   9. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/

   10. http://www.edizionear.com/

   11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html