Re: [Lynx-dev] Adding a style
> 'That's correct for s in general' > There is no correct. I decide what I want. How do I add a style? Well, since there is a spec, there is a well-defined `correct', at least to the extent that the spec is properly done. (I don't know the spec well enough myself to know what it says is correct for s in general.) That said, you are of course welcome to arrange for the software you run to interpret HTML (or anything else) any way you please, regardless of any specs. But don't be surprised if others are uninterested (in using it, in helping you arrange it, in interoperating with it, whatever). No, I don't know how to add a style to lynx. I'd probably do more or less what it sounded as though you did, then treat the crashes you described as a bug to be debugged. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] editors and spell checking?
>> In alpine for example there is a field for editor, and one for spell >> checking, I admit to thinking they worked together as in are >> software dependent. > They can be the same thing or they can be different tools. Some > editors have spell-check support, some don't; so you might want an > external spell-checker. Note that, if lynx does not contain support for a configurable spellchecker, you can get a somewhat similar effect by writing a shellscript that runs the editor-of-choice and the the spellchecker-of-choice (optionally looping afterwards, such as when the spellchecker complains), then telling lynx to use that script as its external editor. That does, however, depend on being competent to write shellscripts. It isn't clear to me from the thread-so-far whether anyone involved with the end user is competent to write such a thing. (I am competent enough to write the script, but I don't know relevant things such as the preferred spellchecker's interface.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] 2-9-0: -assume_charset= does not override in-document charset=
>> -override-charset maybe? > Or, heck, that! :-) > But editing a document to get it -dump'ed out correctly, that is no > good. Well...the real offender here is whatever led to serving 8859-* data but mislabeling it as UTF-8. I have mixed feelings about making it easy to work around brokenness of that order; for all that it is defensible to for lynx to be a useful tool to investigate such catastrophes, I really think webservice that broken should be _blatantly_ broken. But: For what it's worth, for me (Canada), fetching https://www.google.com/ gets me a document with headers including content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 and a including so it might be worth looking to see whether the UTF-8 you're seeing comes from the Content-Type: or a - the does look wrong to me, but I don't know whether it or the Content-Type: is supposed to take precedence when they disagree. (The actual content I get is mostly ASCII, but it does include "Français" - in 8859-1.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] 2-9-0: -assume_charset= does not override in-document charset=
> I stumbled over the above, [...] IMO this is correct. I would say there could be a place for a flag that overrides the document's declared charset, but I don't think "assume" would be a good verb to use. -override-charset maybe? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] ANN: lynx2.9.0
>> Israel ~B ~D s [...] > Found no tildes in your example message, [...] They look like tildes to me. As it landed in my mailbox, the quoted text between "Israel" and "s" was space, space, space, tilde, capital B, space, space, tilde, capital D, space. (No, I have no idea why that might be showing up.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] lynx and webmail interfaces?
> [...] > Lynx ideas for email? This sounds like a business opportunity for...well, I'm not sure whom, but someone! It'd be a niche market, yes, but companies have been successful serving niche markets often enough. (I'd start it myself, but I am not a businessmouse, and I know it.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Crisis Magazine in L Y N X
> Correctly written web sites use java script for housekeeping behind > the scenes and nothing more. Depending on what you mean by "housekeeping", there's also a place for optimizations, such as client-side checking of form fields for obvious errors before submitting the form. (A simple example is checking that a required field is nonempty.) I'd also argue that there can be such a thing as a correctly written page that actually depends on Javascript. For example, I have a (so far very partial) card game which is designed to run in-browser, with the client side being written in JavaScript. Turn off JavaScript and it won't work, yes, but I see that as no different from, say, something written in Python failing to run for lack of a Python interpreter. The problem, to my mind, arises when a page could degrade gracefully when faced with lack of JS, but doesn't. I'm not sure how I feel about things like, say, "Enable JavaScript to see comments on this post" when it could be done but, in the opinion of the page's provider/author, just isn't worth the resource investment. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] using Lynx to add FTP content?
> have never done this, normally using an off list ftp client. > [...] > So, can I use lynx to sftp a couple of files to a location? Careful. Despite the name, sftp has almost nothing to do with FTP. It is a remote filesystem access protocol - philosophically rather like NFS, though the details are totally different - run over an SSH-secured connection. There _is_ a version of FTP secured by TLS/SSL/whatever-it's-called-this-week, but that's FTPS, not sftp. So make sure you know whether you want FTP, FTPS, sftp, or whether more than one of those would do for your use case. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Ot: how email size is established?
This isn't really directly related to lynx, but many of the encoding mechanisms can be (though in my experience usually aren't) used for Web content. > I am sending a file that is slightly larger than 7 meg. > However I am getting a users.shellworld.net error claiming that the > file exceeds the slightly above 10 meg size restriction. If it said the _file_ size exceeded a 10M limit, it was badly worded. More correctly, it would say the _message_ size exceeded a 10M limit, or perhaps the _encoded_ file size did. The 7M is probably the size on disk; the latter is probably the size of the email, including the _encoded_ file. All ways of sending non-plain-text files by email involve some kind of encoding. The commonest is probably what is called `base64', which enlarges the file by a factor of approximately four to three (ie, every three bytes of file are four bytes of email - "approximately" because there is slight additional overhead, roughly three percent, for line breaks). 7 megs times 4/2 turns into 4*(7/3) or some 9.333 megs. As for where the rest comes from, the most likely thing that occurs to me is that (a) your 7 megs is binary megs, 1048576 (2^20) bytes each, but the 10 megs is decimal megs, 100 bytes each. 7 binary megs, times 4/3, plus the end-of-line overhead, is about half a percent over 10 decimal megs: 7*1048576 is 7340032 bytes; times 4/3 gives 9786709.333... bytes, times 74/72 (the approximate end-of-line overhead: one CRLF inserted every 72 octets) is 10058562.37+ octets. The size of a megabyte is a contentious issue. As the Jargon File notes, when counting things (like bytes on disk) that naturally occur in units of powers of two, prefixes like "kilo" and "mega" naturally attract power-of-two meanings (1024, 1048576, etc). But in datacomm, they traditionally use power-of-ten meanings (1000, 100, etc). Compounding the confusion, back in the...late '80s, I think it was?, disk makers decided they were going to use the decimal meanings when labeling their disks, because it lets them label disks with artifically inflated numbers without quite lying enough to get slapped with misleading-advertising charges. (Personally, I think they still should; advertising, and in some cases devices, often says, in tiny print, things like "based on 1GB = 1 billion bytes", which seems to me like a clear admission that they _know_ they're being misleading.) There even were, I'm told (I was just getting into geekdom at the time; I wasn't buying disks), cases where the exact same device with the exact same capacity was still sold - relabeled with the bigger number. Then, further compounding the confusion, someone came up with the idiotic idea of sticking a marker into the SI prefixes to indicate binary meanings, leading to things like KiB, MiB, etc. I have no idea where this came from, unless it was initiated by disk-industry shills, since as far as I can tell nobody else seriously used decimal units to label storage. (Not even other parts of the storage industry do that; you even now see things like a "4G" stick of memory, not a "4.29G" stick of memory.) One infamous fail here is the "1.44M" floppy, which is nothing of the sort by either definition. It is 1474560 bytes, or 1.44 * 1024 * 1000; the "M" is formed by multiplying one decimal K by one binary K, leading to a unit nobody uses for anything else as far as I can tell. Perhaps fortunately, those floppies are pretty much dead anyway by now. > Odd thing is that I have sent the same file previously, with no error > at all. Either it wasn't quite the same file (a smaller version of the same thing, maybe) or the limit has been lowered in the meantime. > what I am seeking as a short term solution is a way to understand how > programs decide email size... Well, for the full details, read the MIME RFCs. But, most briefly, the message is assembled from various parts, such as the text you give it and any attachments. Each part is, potentially, encoded, though normally only attachments will be encoded in ways that enlarge them significantly. There is also some overhead, delimiting the parts and declaring their types and encodings and such, but that is small enough that, unless you have a lot of tiny attachments or the like, you can usually ignore it. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] [PATCH] accept
> - flag = !StrNCmp(t, "utf-8", 5); > + flag = !strncasecomp(t, "utf-8", 5); I haven't read the full context here, so I could be a bit off-base, but, surely using strncasecmp (or strncasecomp, whatever that is) is a bit dodgy here? You don't want "utf-8-is-stupid" to be taken as "utf-8", surely? (Not that I've ever seen the former in the wild, and I haven't actually read the spec myself, but I doubt it considers all strings beginning with UTF-8 to be equivalent to UTF-8.) In the case of UTF-8, it's less likely to be a problem in practice, but there are other cases where it's a bigger issue; for example, ISO-8859-1 and ISO-8859-14 are very different. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Playing dot mkv files in LYNX?
>> audio/mkv; mpv --really-quiet >> --audio-device=alsa/plughw:CARD=AudioPCI,DEV=0 '%s'; nametemplate=%s.mkv >> video/mkv; mpv --really-quiet --no-video >> --audio-device=alsa/plughw:CARD=AudioPCI,DEV=0 '%s'; nametemplate=%s.mkv > Shouldn't the --no-video option be on the audio one? Maybe, but maybe not. That would be entirely appropriate for someone who wants to hear the audio track while suppressing the video track. It's not needed for audio/mkv because there's no video to suppress in that case (well, assuming the MIME marking is accurate). As for why someone would want that, well, I can guess, but it would be nothing but guesses. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] a solution for this problem?
> Verizon is using my Gail account, which still works in basic HTML for > me. You later mention "Gmail", leading me to assume the "Gail" above is supposed to be "Gmail". If so...what do you have to do to make that work? One of my workplaces uses Google for their mail and, they said that "starting March 24, 2022" we "won't be able to sign into [our] accounts on browsers that don't support JavaScript". The actual date was somewhat after that; I haven't been able to find any record of exactly when, but it happened. And I just now tried again and got | Couldn't sign you in | |The browser you're using doesn't support JavaScript, or has JavaScript |turned off. | |To keep your Google Account secure, try signing in on a browser that |has JavaScript turned on. Learn more Of course, it don't bother explaining how requiring the exposed attack surface of a JavaScript engine can possibly make anything more secure than...not. I would *love* to switch back to using lynx, but I haven't found any way to get anything more useful than the misleading refusal above. > However, when I hit enter on this link, I get a badly formed address > error...which I admit is new. It's been a while, but I do have a fuzzy memory that, years ago, I found lynx erroring on links that "worked fine everywhere else" but were not actually well-formed according to the spec. Unfortunately, that memory is too fuzzy for me to say much more. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Asking about printing HTTP communications when browsing an URL
>> I'd like to ask about howto print HTTP communications between the >> client and the server when browsing an URL. > Not to forget wireshark (which runs on Linux, as well as Windows). If it really is HTTP, yes. But these days a lot of people use "HTTP" to mean what would more properly be phrased "HTTP or HTTPS", and, without the cooperation of at least one endpoint, wireshark and its ilk can't tell you much about HTTPS beyond the sheer volume of data sent/received. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] loading incorrect webpage
> probably meaningless, but urlencode was also giving > incorrect results for: > $ urlencode > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jindam_vani/zandbak=history > but it shows correct result: > $ urlencode > 'https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jindam_vani/zandbak=history' This is, again, a shell issue. $ command foo is, for most shells, equivalent to $ command foo bar & or $ command foo & $ bar or some such. Depending on the shell, the ? might also cause trouble (but shells vary more in that regard). Quoting it with ' ' avoids this. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] How stable is 2.9.0?
>> The effort involved in a leap forward is rather high, though. > Unless [...], the effort should be small. Just `configure;make;make > install` (with a bunch of testing in between the two `make` steps, of > course). Where the effort lurks is in the step you've glossed over as "configure". I quite dislike the ./configure paradigm; my thoughts on the matter are in my blah post of 2009-11-20, available at http://ftp.rodents-montreal.org/mouse/blah/2009-11-20-1.html, in case you're interested in elaboration. (Its use of ./configure is one of the few things I definitely dislike about lynx.) The brief look I had at 2.8.9 makes me think it would be easier to configure it manually by editing the half-dozen files affected than to vet the configure script properly. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] How stable is 2.9.0?
>> But a lot of development versions, especially for open-source >> software, are plenty usable enough. [...] So, my question is, is >> 2.9.0 in good enough shape that I should (FWVO "should") use it, or >> would 2.8.9 be better? > Thomas will be more modest, but basically every 'dev' release of Lynx > is rock steady [...] That does not surprise me. lynx appears to be done (what I consider) right in a lot of other respects; it is no surprise to hear that its release engineering is also done right. > Now if you are really leaping forward from a 1999 release, there may > be differences which bug you. There may indeed be. Right now I'm more interested in differences which _don't_ bug me, such as - I hope! - fixing the memory-management bugs I tripped over. (And, if it doesn't, then either I'll be able to contribute a fix or I'll have a test case I can pass off to someone who _can_ fix it.) > You should leap forward and then report any issues, so that they will > cease being issues. My experience has been that my idea of an issue doesn't always line up with a software project's idea of an issue. (But I do expect that the two will line up better in lynx's case.) The effort involved in a leap forward is rather high, though. I don't know how soon I'll find the round tuits for it. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
[Lynx-dev] How stable is 2.9.0?
The lynx I've been using - 2.8, from 1999 - started exhibiting a disturbing failure mode, today: I got "lynx in free(): warning: chunk is already free.", indicating a memory-management bug, and, in at least one session, got a coredump (ditto, but even more so). I could just treat this as a debugging exercise. But I wanted to at least look at version-jumping instead. It appears to me that the latest release is 2.8.9, with 2.9.0 being still in development versions. But a lot of development versions, especially for open-source software, are plenty usable enough. And I notice that 2.9.0dev looks relatively stable; the last-change time I see is 2021-08-07. So, my question is, is 2.9.0 in good enough shape that I should (FWVO "should") use it, or would 2.8.9 be better? (Of course, it's possible that either one has some property that will render it unsuitable for my purposes, but I figured I should at least look into it.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Don't open link on left mouse click
>> It would be nice to have a config option to specify mouse left click behavi$ > Single click link following has been the standard for graphical > browsers since the beginning and was inherited from earlier hypertext > formats, like PDF. (a) so here's an opportunity for lynx to do better! (b) what do "graphical browsers" have to do with lynx? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Handling sites that don't send content-type (was: lynx word bleeding?)
> Well as a positive feather for Luke's efforts with this [...] I've been exchanging a few messages offlist with Luke and I too am quite definitely positively impressed. Luke strikes me as what provider support should be but far too seldom is. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] configure-script issue
>> Specifically, when I run it with CC set to cc -g, [...] > I created the macro after dealing with users who would put C > preprocessor options in $CC (which for lynx will cause it to not > build the configuration summary page as expected, for ncurses will > cause interesting build failures, etc) or would load up $CC with > optimization/debugging options (similar problems, with complaints > when it didn't evaluate in the expected order). > A warning message is just a reminder... Except it's not just a warning message. The script also insists on prying the options off $CC and putting them elsewhere. > CFLAGS is the proper place for compiler options (standard), > CPPFLAGS is the place for C preprocessor options [...] When I'm trying to turn debugging on, I've run into way too many build systems that will use some setting most of the time but then lose it other times. For example, some build procedures use CFLAGS when compiling .c to .o, but not when linking .o files together into an executable. The most reliable way I've found of getting -g set everywhere is to make it part of $CC. (It is at least somewhat important that the compilers I use ignore -g, rather than erroring out, when doing something for which it's not relevant.) I've even occasinoally run into some that don't provide a way to set CFLAGS, or make it obscure and undocumented enough that they might as well not. >> So if I'm going to end up building 2.9.0dev.10, I'm going to have to >> resurrect the kludge I used before: create a script (I called it >> cc-g) that runs cc -g "$@", and tell configure to use that. > I do that for compiler warnings, but not for optimization/debugging. For routine use, I do too: I have a script, wgcc, that runs gcc with a suitable set of options depending on the particular compiler/version in use. For example, one of the more heavily used of the lists of flags is -Werror -W -Wall -Wpointer-arith -Wcast-qual -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-sign-compare -Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wno-pointer-sign -Wno-format-zero-length. I don't always want -g, but I often do. When I was building that lynx, performance was very much secondary to debuggability. > I do this with all C programs - lynx isn't special in that regard. Then I guess I just haven't had occasion to build much else you maintain. :-) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] lynx word bleeding?
>>> At one of my jobs, they have decided to use Google for mail rather >>> than anything sane. [...] >> [...https://www.lifewire.com/...] I'll have to have a look at that at some point from a work machine; it's unwilling to serve the content over HTTP (all I get is a redirect to HTTPS), so I can't do anything with it from my own machines. > For business accounts that's a larger problem. For a personal gmail > account though, I'd arrange to have all gmail forwarded to another > account off of google and clean out the All-Messages folder. Possibly, but the only off-Google mailboxes I have are (a) my own and (b) other work addresses. I'm not about to forward mail for job A to job B's mailbox, and as for my own mailbox, this is not _nearly_ incentive enough to lift my block (Google has earned themselves the dubious honour of the hardest email block I know how to throw up). /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] lynx word bleeding?
>>> if the content is still there. >> I think I understand the problem, and I have hit it as well on a >> visual display. >> Basically, yes, when you scroll, sometimes previous content is not >> erased if the new line is shorter than the old line. [...] (I have >> seen this more often if â??funnyâ?? Unicode characters were used). It occurs to me that this is exactly what I'd expect when using a curses package written for single-byte character sets (like ISO-8859-*) with UTF-8 content and a terminal emulator that supports UTF-8: curses will emit multiple octets, which it thinks are multiple characters, but they get displayed as only one character, overwriting a single character cell when curses expects them to overwrite multiple cells. Yet another reason - to me - to avoid UTF-8. As if more were needed. > Oh, anyone here use basic html for gmail with lynx? At one of my jobs, they have decided to use Google for mail rather than anything sane. Initially, I wanted to fetch the mail and inject it into my mailbox, but Google decided my mail-fetch client wasn't secure enough (without, of course, explaining what was wronjg wit hit or what I needed to do to "fix" it - never mind the issue of telling me how I am allowed to handle my own mail). So I've been using their webmail interface - with lynx, of course, since Firefox kept unilaterally deciding to "upgrade" in ways that actually reduced functionality. The only thing I've seen change recently with that is that, before the winter solstice break, my account had been marked to always drop straight into their "basic HTML" interface. Since the break, it makes me do that manually every time I re-login. I had a look at the settings, but was unable to find a setting to fix it. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Trouble uploading a file
>> "file://localhost/home/juuelherza/Desktop/frames/original_frame1327.pdb" >> Then I receive the message: "Alert! Can't open file for uploading" I assume it does indeed exist at /home/juuelherza/etc. It's a stab in the dark - as David Woolley pointed out, we are not in a position to do much more than that - but, maybe try stripping off the file://localhost part? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Display of some multi-line links is cut off in the middle
>> -strcat(linedata, p); >> +for (i = 0; (linedata[i] = p[i]) != '\0'; ++i) ; > asan2 reported that this line had a strcpy whose source/destination > overlapped. Then asan2 is wrong; the original line (the - line above) does not have any strcpy at all. It has a strcat. (Perhaps the strcat source and destination overlap, and asan2 is wrong only in that it reports the wrong call in its complaint?) But the replacement code (the + line above) implements (loosely put) strcpy, not strcat. Perhaps it would work better to replace the strcat with code that actually concatenates, preserving the presumably-intended semantics? Maybe something like (completely untested) for (i=0,j=strlen(linedata);(linedata[j]=p[i]);i++,j++) ; /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
>> the basic html webpage for gmail > The modern trend would be that there is no such thing available to > display. [...] > I don't know that that is the case for gmail. It is not, or at least three days ago it was not for the one of my workplaces that has farmed out their mail to Google. (That may or may not count as "gmail".) Google has, moderately recently, started forcibly logging me out - probably, expiring the "I'm logged in" cookie - every week. Much more recently, they started presenting me with a "we want JS" page on EVERY LOGIN - it used to be some kind of setting of my account that always went straight to the basic HTML view. But, so far, that page has always had three links which supposedly go to the basic HTML version, though I don't think I've tried more than one of the three. And, of course, they don't give me any address I can send mail to about any of this, but that's been true for as long as I can recall. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Build failures on hppa architectures after update from 2.9.0dev.9 to 2.9.0dev.10
> The relevant compile error seems to be this: > gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H [...] ../../../WWW/Library/Implementation/HTMLGen.c > /tmp/cc3NiXQT.s: Assembler messages: > /tmp/cc3NiXQT.s:18552: Error: Invalid Shift/Extract/Deposit Condition. > /tmp/cc3NiXQT.s:18552: Error: Undefined absolute constant: '.loc'. > /tmp/cc3NiXQT.s:18552: Error: Field out of range [0..31] (-1). > /tmp/cc3NiXQT.s:18552: Error: Invalid operands > make[2]: *** [makefile:245: SGML.o] Error 1 You compiled a .c file and got invalid assembly? Unless the .c contains inline assembly - and I can't see why HTMLGen.c would - I have trouble calling that anything but a bug in the compiler. (Of course, lynx may want to try to work around the bug; that's a separate question.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] reaching google in basic html with lynx.
> I don't have persistent cookies on lynx, and the gmail login page > requires javascript. That does not match my experience. Maybe it's because my work account is already set up to use the basic HTML view, but unless it's changed in the last week or so I've been able to log in fine without JS. This is not to gmail proper, though, but to a small-company mail system hosted on Google's infrastructure. I don't know whether that distinction makes any difference here. They _do_, annoyingly, send me a mail each time I log in incorrectly claiming that I've logged in from a new Linux device - no, it's the same Linux device I've been using for years. But that is a minor annoyance as compared to having to use their webmail at all (which I have to because they claim my mail fetcher is too insecure, as if that weren't my choice to make - and without, of course, any indication what they consider secure enough, what hoops they would want my client to jump through before they'd let me fetch mail with it). /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
[Lynx-dev] Google vs redirection limit [was Re: what controls the redirect limit?]
> I admit I'm surprised that gmail found a way to break even a limit of > 10. So was I, a little. But this _is_ Google we're talking about. Turns out I still have a trace log. Here's what it shows, with details that might contain private data (mostly encoded stuff) replaced with "redacted". Start: http://mail.google.com/ 301 to /mail/ -> http://mail.google.com/mail/ 302 to https://mail.google.com/mail/ 302 to https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=mail=true=false=https://mail.google.com/mail/=1=1=default=2=1=1# 200 OK (user interaction here) POST to /signin/v1/lookup 302 to https://accounts.google.com/signin/challenge/pwd/1?continue=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.google.com%2Fmail%2F=mail=1=1=false=1=GlifWebSignIn=default=redacted%3D%3D=redacted 200 OK (user interaction here) POST to /signin/challenge/pwd/1 302 to https://mail.google.com/accounts/SetOSID?authuser=0=https%3A%2F%2Faccounts.google.ca%2Faccounts%2FSetSID%3Fssdc%3D1%26redacted%3Dredacted%26continue%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fmail.google.com%252Fmail%252F=redacted=redacted%3D%3D 302 to https://accounts.google.ca/accounts/SetSID?ssdc=1=redacted=https://mail.google.com/mail/=redacted%3D%3D 302 to https://mail.google.com/mail/ 302 to https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/ 302 to https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=html=g 302 to https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/redacted/?zy=g=1 200 OK Interestingly, the log I have ends there. Either Google had changed something between my having the issue and the taking of that trace or the redirection count limit applies even when user interaction interrupts the flow of redirections; I count only 10 redirections across the whole session. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] what controls the redirect limit?
Karen Lewellen writes, in reply to the patch I posted, > My hope is that there is something I can influence, as I use Lynx on > a service, not as a part of my own computer. > So I am unsure just where that would go exactly? What I gave is a change to the source. If the "service" in question lets you compile software yourself, or copy in software compiled elsewhere, then you could compile your own version of lynx with that change - or any others you want. At least, in principle. I don't know you well enough to know whether you have the skill (or inclination!) to do that, even if there aren't technical restrictions in the way. Jude DaShiell writes that > The REDIRECTION_LIMIT variable is the last line in lynx.cfg. This indicates that the answer depends on which version of lynx is in use, because the version I was working with, the version that patch applied to, had the limit of 10 hardwired into the code, not user-configurable. That's apparently changed since then, so it depends on whether you're using a version before or after that change. (It's a good change; if I'd been more comfortable in the innards of lynx back in 2018, or if I'd been more ambitious, I would have done something like that myself value rather than just raising the hardwired limit from 10 to 25.) Even if your lynx has that configurability, though, depending on just what "service" means here, you may or may not be in a position to use your own lynx.cfg. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] what controls the redirect limit?
> [...], I reach a lynx error that says something like maximum number
> of 10 redirects reached..and I can go no further.
> What in Lynx controls the number of redirects the browser considers
> safe, and how can I increase that number?
A few years back, I was working at a job that, "thanks" to a confluence
of various reasons, ended up with me wanting to use lynx to read
Google-hosted mail through their webmail interface.
I promptly ran into the ten-redirection limit.
As for how I dealt with it, turns out I still have the commit:
commit 028e3e6312bd2a6d108ec4755165091be9426ce4
Author: Mouse
Date: Tue Mar 20 09:37:26 2018 -0400
Boost redirection count limit to 25.
diff --git a/LYMessages_en.h b/LYMessages_en.h
index b0c7c44..85b490e 100644
--- a/LYMessages_en.h
+++ b/LYMessages_en.h
@@ -631,7 +631,7 @@
#define ERROR_UNCOMPRESSING_TEMP gettext("Error uncompressing temporary file!")
#define UNSUPPORTED_URL_SCHEME gettext("Unsupported URL scheme!")
#define UNSUPPORTED_DATA_URL gettext("Unsupported data: URL! Use SHOWINFO,
for now.")
-#define TOO_MANY_REDIRECTIONS gettext("Redirection limit of 10 URL's reached.")
+#define TOO_MANY_REDIRECTIONS gettext("Redirection limit of 25 URLs reached.")
#define ILLEGAL_REDIRECTION_URL gettext("Illegal redirection URL received from
server!")
#defineSERVER_ASKED_FOR_REDIRECTION \
gettext("Server asked for %d redirection of POST content to")
diff --git a/WWW/Library/Implementation/HTAccess.c
b/WWW/Library/Implementation/HTAccess.c
index 4c2c1be..a1f4b7e 100644
--- a/WWW/Library/Implementation/HTAccess.c
+++ b/WWW/Library/Implementation/HTAccess.c
@@ -769,8 +769,10 @@ static BOOL HTLoadDocument(const char *full_address,
/* may include #fragment */
* of 10 redirections per requested URL from a user, because the HTTP/1.1
* will no longer specify a restriction to 5, but will leave it up to the
* browser's discretion, in deference to Microsoft. - FM
+ *
+ * Upped to 25 because 10 breaks gmail. :-þ - Mouse
*/
-if (redirection_attempts > 10) {
+if (redirection_attempts > 25) {
redirection_attempts = 0;
HTAlert(TOO_MANY_REDIRECTIONS);
return NO;
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Re: [Lynx-dev] (a) list mail format error; (b) broken owner- address
> Majordomo uses -owner, for the default envelope address Sure, for the envelope address, use whatever you want. $LIST-owner, $LIST-bounces, $LIST-bounces=$ENCODED_RECIPIENT, whatever. If anything, I'd say this is an argument _against_ using -owner for the "contact a human" address, because, in most cases, I think it would be stupid to use the same address for list mail envelope-from and for contacting the listowner. Routine bounce processing should not bother a human - or, at least, if I were running a list with automated software I wouldn't want routine bounces to land in my mailbox. > and only suggests -request, not request-, So? I think this is the first time anyone has said anything about -request addresses. And -request _is_ standardized (well, actually, -REQUEST, but most mail software case-folds local-parts); see RFC 2142 section 6, probably among others. > although it does suggest defining both -owner and > owner-. Probably good advice...and only tangentially relevant to the question at issue here. I have no problem with listowners supporting multiple addresses for contacting the listowner. $LIST-owner, admin-$LIST, $LIST-riarthooir, whatever you want...as long as owner-$LIST still works. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] (a) list mail format error; (b) broken owner- address
> >>>>> RCPT To: > That's not the standard owner address, It is, to the extent that there is a standard. It has come to my attention, thanks to a different list that was exhibiting the same misbehaviour, that GNU mailman thinks itself empowered to unilaterally impose a different `standard'. It's not. owner-$LIST has been the de-facto standard since the heyday of UUCP, and GNU mailman does not get to change that. (Since you seem to think that's not the standard, I assume you don't go back that far. If you want more evidence than the word of someone who does, go look at the RFCs. I searched for owner- and -owner; there are more hits for the latter, but upon looking at them, most - all, I think - the ones that actually represent examples of list owner addresses are of the form owner-$LIST, not $LIST-owner.) > [...] all the official administration addresses start with, rather > than end with, the list name. That's a GNU mailman idiosyncracy, deciding to ignore the established, albeit de-facto, standard. Standards work only when people follow them. I should not need to know which list admin software - if any! - is in use to figure out what address to use for the human listowner; that's why a consensus standard arose. If GNU mailman hadn't decided to be different for the sake of being different[%], it would have worked fine - well, except for the broken antispam measures on eggs; that's a completely separate issue. [%] To be fair, I actually don't know their motivation. But this has been the most plausible explanation I've come up with for the Project GNU deviations from established practice I've seen. Of course, GNU mailman could also have added a suitable header, List-Owner:, say, to list messages. But they didn't; I looked for such a thing before I tried sending mail anywhere, and I looked again just now. I don't know whether it's arrogance, just living in the GNU echo chamber, or what, but they seem to expect everybody to Just Know that they think they've rewritten the standard. Standards don't work that way. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] (a) list mail format error; (b) broken owner- address
>> I tried to send mail to lynx-dev's owner- address, raising a >> consistent malformatting issue in list mail (see below), and got a >> bounce indicating even more issues. So I'm wondering if I could get >> whoever runs the list to (a) deal with the issue I tried to raise > at that level, you'd have to open a ticker on > https://savannah.gnu.org/ _I_ would?? It's not my list; I've got no standing. I was trying to do the listowner the courtesy of pointing out the issue rather than just letting mail start bouncing once that check is moved out of testing. Also, personally, I don't use webpage ticket systems (not unless I'm being paid to, ie, at work); if it were my list I'd fix the software myself or switch to something more civilized before I'd jump through Web hoops to report a bug. But that's a personal idiosyncracy. Since it's not my list, that's not my decision; our listowner can file a ticket (by whatever means), fix the software, ignore the issue and let list mail start bouncing, whatever. Naturally, I'd prefer it get fixed, because I think the world is better with fewer bugs. But it's not my call to make. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
[Lynx-dev] (a) list mail format error; (b) broken owner- address
My apologies to most listmembers for the noise; the usual address to reach the listowner doesn't seem to be working (see below). I tried to send mail to lynx-dev's owner- address, raising a consistent malformatting issue in list mail (see below), and got a bounce indicating even more issues. So I'm wondering if I could get whoever runs the list to (a) deal with the issue I tried to raise and (b) fix (or at least get fixed) the issue that prevented the mail from getting through? For (a), here's the content I tried to send: I've been noticing, for a while now, that lynx-dev list mail has been coming in with a minor format violation. Specifically, it shows up as (to quote a recent list mail) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 but, while the base64 encoding is valid, the decoded content is not valid text/plain; it represents line breaks as bare 0x0a octets, without any preceding 0x0d octets. (See RFC2046 4.1.1.) I would, of course, recommend you fix or replace whatever is responsible for this malformatting. For (b), the bounce I got says >- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - > owner-lynx-...@nongnu.org > >- Transcript of session follows - > ... while talking to eggs.gnu.org.: > >>> RCPT To: > <<< 550-Verification failed for > <<< 550-Could not complete sender verify callout for > . > <<< 550-The mail server(s) for the domain may be temporarily unreachable, or > <<< 550-they may be permanently unreachable from this server. In the latter > case, > <<< 550-you need to change the address or create an MX record for its domain > <<< 550-if it is supposed to be generally accessible from the Internet. > <<< 550-Talk to your mail administrator for details. > <<< 550-Callout verification failed: > <<< 550 550 Unrouteable address > 550 owner-lynx-...@nongnu.org... User unknown The problem with this is twofold: first, there's the problem with the whole paradigm, in that it farms out part of spam filtering to entities with no particular incentive to do it the way eggs.gnu.org wants it done; second, there's the implementation problem, in that the verify code doesn't seem to know how to speak SMTP. It dropped the connection slightly over 60 seconds into my banner delay, a point at which any client-side timeout SHOULD be at least five minutes (RFC2821 4.5.3.2): 2021-08-12 13:28:01.51: [RCTkjr.Sghk.Mgl] (11069) connection from 209.51.188.92/35416 [...] 2021-08-12 13:29:01.54: [RCTkjr.Sghk.Mgl] ident lookup aborted by client input 2021-08-12 13:29:01.54: [RCTkjr.Sghk.Mgl] drop delay 60.025715 2021-08-12 13:29:01.54: [RCTkjr.Sghk.Mgl] unexpected SMTP connection drop /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Externals format circumvention
> I was trying to add > 'EXTERNAL:http:tmux new-window lynx -socks5_proxy=127.0.0.1:9050 > %s:TRUE' > to my externals however the colon from "0.1:9050" interrupts with the > formatting of externals and therefore doesn't work. It's a workaround rather than a fix, but could you maybe create a script that runs tmux with those arguments (ncluding the colon-containing one), then have it run that script? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] More or less (was Re: Where does -dump output go?)
>> more instead of cat, and to those purists that claim less is better, >> let me remind those that less and more are the same executable on >> most linux systems > This is off-topic, but: no they are not. "Most" Linux systems? And, regardless of the truth of that, (a) Despite what some Linux fans seem to wish (or even believe), Linux is not the whole world. (b) I would argue that, when available, less is generally better for these purposes, or at least no worse. Depending on how much you care about the portability and functionality tradeoffs involved, you might want to train yourself to type more, because systems with more but no less probably outnumber systems with less but no more, or less, because it does provide significant additional functionality where they differ. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] a twitter user? is a posible solution, is help with ff.net.
>>>>> [...] that individuals who experience Cesar disorders like >>>>> epilepsy, cannot use JavaScript either. >>>> I cannot see anything about epilepsy that would have any bearing >>>> on whether you can use a JavaScript-capable browser. [...] >>> Its not the browser, it is the scripting. [...] >> Ah, so it's not actually JavaScript per se, it's really the >> bells-whistles-and-gongs kind of user interface that JavaScript >> tends to go along with? > Actually, that feels a bit like the guns don't kill people argument. I can understand that, but I'd say it's more like the "hammers don't kill people" argument. Guns are designed specifically to kill, or at least injure, and, while they have other uses, there are comparatively few such other uses and guns are not particularly well suited to most of them. Hammers, while they certainly can kill, are not designed with that as their primary design goal, and they have plenty of other uses, many of which are a better fit to them than killing is. Similarly, yes, JavaScript can indeed produce seizure-triggering visual effects...but those are not its primary design goal, and it has a lot of other uses, many of which are a better fit to the language. As a simple example, suppose you have a form that wants to accept a Canadian postal code: letter-digit-letter-digit-letter-digit. JavaScript can verify that the entered string fits that pattern without needing to do a round-trip to the backend server, thereby saving frustration (filling out the whole form only to be told that field's syntax is wrong) and resource usage (the network bandwidth and backend cycles involved). (Indeed, I'd say that animated GIFs would be a better fit for your argument than JavaScript is; while still not really designed to induce seizures, it's closer, and it's got fewer other uses.) > If the result of the scripting causes injury, much like the result of > some words and some guns cause injury, is there not some blame for > JavaScript as well? Some. The tool certainly has to bear *some* of the responsibility for its use. But, when the tool does not come readier to that use than to many other, far less harmful (even helpful!) uses, then I will generally apportion more of the blame to the user than the tool - just as, to continue the analogy above, if someone kills someone with a hammer, I would place only a tiny bit of the blame on the hammer. The major way in which the analogy breaks down is that it is really popular to do visually obnoxious things with JavaScript. But I blame the webmasters for choosing to impose that sort of UI on their viewers far more than I blame JavaScript for being sufficiently general-purpose to do that. You might as well blame your monitor for being too fast to respond to changes in what the computer is displaying! I'm no JavaScript apologist. I use lynx too, and I consider it a bug in a website when it fails for lack of JavaScript without any actual need to. See my blah post of 2009-Nov-28 (http://ftp.rodents-montreal.org/mouse/blah/2009-11-28-1.html) for an example in a different domain (wanting cookies enabled instead of wanting JS support) and some of my stances on such matters. I just don't think it's fair to blame JS for how it gets used here. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] a twitter user? is a posible solution, is help with ff.net.
>>> [...] that individuals who experience Cesar disorders like >>> epilepsy, cannot use JavaScript either. >> I cannot see anything about epilepsy that would have any bearing on >> whether you can use a JavaScript-capable browser. [...] > Its not the browser, it is the scripting. [...] Ah, so it's not actually JavaScript per se, it's really the bells-whistles-and-gongs kind of user interface that JavaScript tends to go along with? That makes a lot more sense to me. Thank you! /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] a twitter user? is a posible solution, is help with ff.net.
> [...] that individuals who experience Cesar disorders like epilepsy, > cannot use JavaScript either. I cannot see anything about epilepsy that would have any bearing on whether you can use a JavaScript-capable browser. Obviously, I'm missing something - not surprising, since I am not epileptic (well, not as far as I know, at least). Might you be willing to explain? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] stay logged in
> I am starting to use Lynx and for some reason I will login to a > website and when I exit Lynx and get back into it, I am logged out. > Is there a specific setting in the lynx.cfg that I need to change? I > allowed to always accept cookies. Accepting cookies is not the same as saving them between sessions. I don't have anything specific to recommend, because I'm usually more concerned with shutting cookies off than in saving them (I normally run lynx with -cookies, for example), but looking for settings that bear on saving cookies between sessions might be worthwhile. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Only half CJK characters displayed
> I encountered some problems rendering CJK fonts inside browser. Steps > to reproduce: > 1. Lynx 2.8.9rel.1, Alacritty, Sway WM and Noto CJK fonts > 2. Visit Japanese Wikipedia. Only half characters shown. > Screenshot: <https://w.wiki/qzr> I can't see the screenshot, because w.wiki has drunk the "ram HTTPS down everyone's throat" koolaid. But it seems to me this is more likely to be a terminal emulator issue than a lynx issue. > 3. Open another terminal and `cat` the page cache at /tmp/lynx/*.html > 4. Close current Lynx instance and relaunch Lynx in another terminal. > 5. Visit Japanese Wikipedia, now full characters are shown. > Screenshot: <https://w.wiki/qzt> > 6. Delete font cache in ~/.cache > 7. Visit Japanese Wikipedia, half characters shown again. Yes, this sounds like an infrastructure issue, something wrong with font caching and/or generation in the terminal emulator and/or underlying display system. (I don't see any statement I recognize as being a description of the terminal emulator or underlying font infrastructure, though I do see some names I don't recognize, so that could be me. Certainly the X I know doesn't keep anything in ~/.cache, so either this isn't X or it's doing client-side rendering or some such "modern" insanity.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] New response to lynx
>> Recently I got something similar and they said this was the reason the page$ >> Has anyone else seen this? I have. Not often, but I have. > [...] I would have thought it unusual to be so honest about it. Indeed. > For most web sites, you are the product, and if you are not > compatible with the sorts of adverts that their ad-servers serve, you > are a defective product. Indeed. This bothers me only a little most places, because I don't have much to do with the kind of websites where I'm (putatively) part of the product. Where it really annoys me is things like governmental pages or other non-ad-supported stuff. > The other reason for a conscious decision to block Lynx was its > ability to be used in bulk downloading. Presumably under the impression that there are people capable of realizing lynx can do that but not of realizing that it can be told to change its User-Agent string. And, somehow, that aren't capable of just saving the page source from something like Firefox or Chromium. Bizarre. I do not understand what passes for thinking behind "most web sites". /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] autotools vs. prototypes
>> It turns out that you simply CANNOT [make
>> -Werror=implicit-function-declaration the default].
I don't see why not.
>> Almost all GNU autoconf snippets make use of the fact that implicit
>> definitions, even with bogus prototypes, resolve at link time, to
>> detect functions.
Then they are broken and need to be rendered *obviously* broken, so
they can be found and fixed. Hiding such bugs serves nobody but lazy
software authors/maintainers.
Your exmaple, though, is not the example you seem to think it is:
> | #ifdef __cplusplus
> | extern "C"
> | #endif
> | char opendir ();
> | int
> | main ()
> | {
> | return opendir ();
> | ;
> | return 0;
> | }
There is no implicit function declaration there. What is there is an
EXplicit function declaration with no prototype. That is arguably a
bug too, but to the extent that it is, it is a different one, and
-Werror=implicit-function-declaration should not trip for it.
>> tl;dr: You cannot default to -Werror=implicit-function-declaration
>> *at all* or the usual ./configure; make; sudo make install trifecta
>> will break EVERYWHERE,
That's a feature, not a bug.
Rant ON.
./configure is a broken paradigm and tests that depend on implicit
function declarations, except to test for implicit function
declarations (and why would anyone do that??), are even more broken.
(And, sudo?? Don't even get me started.)
Rant OFF.
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Re: [Lynx-dev] Adding $SOCKS5_PROXY support, changing command line option
>>>> [...(char *)-1...] > You know -- i for one do not care about the issue, Ah. Then, goodbye. If you don't even care about portability issues in lynx, there I have nothing more of value to contribute to this thread. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Adding $SOCKS5_PROXY support, changing command line option
>> So, in summary, except for the null-pointer-constant special case, >> converting integers to pointers is intended to be useful in >> machine-dependent code, but is not portable beyond that. > ISO C99 specifies intptr_t and uintptr_t though, Yes - but there is no promise that an intptr_t or uintptr_t obtained in any way other than casting a pointer-to-void to it will convert to anything useful. Also, it says that "[t]hese types are optional"; they do not have to exist. > and POSIX [...] has a notion of (PTR)-1 for long, I'm not sure whether "for long" here is "for a long time" or whether it has something to do with C's long type. Also, "has a notion of" is notably imprecise; what exactly does POSIX specify about them? > just "recently" (in Issue 6) gave (void*)-1 the symbolic MAP_FAILED > constant name. Ugh. Mandating what something like MAP_FAILED epxands to defeats much of the point of giving it a symbolic name. But I don't think that means it has to differ from (void *)0, or any other specific void * not obtained from mmap, though, does it? MAP_FAILED just has to differ from any possible valid mmap return, or at least that's what (little) I've read says. > It never hit me, i always used (register-sized-integer)/(pointer) > back and forth casting. And, I would hazard the guess, you have always been using mainstream hardware and OSes. As I said, >> On most current systems, no, it won't cause trouble; it will do >> pretty much what you presumably expect. And, if you don't care about portability beyond "most current systems", then, sure, go for it. But, as I also wrote, >> I would hope that lynx wants to be more portable than that, though. As for >> char magic_value; // maybe static, if not needed beyond file scope >> socks5_proxy = _value; >>... >> if (socks5_proxy == _value) ... > Really not!! If so then (char*)(intptr_t)-1! This is slightly less portable than (char *)-1 (slightly less because intptr_t is an optional type, and no more because (a) the intptr_t in question was not obtained by casting a void * and thus there are no promises about what it may convert to and (b) because you're casting it to char *, something about which no promsies are made anyway - the promises are about converting intptr_t to void *). I can't make you write portable code. Nor would I if I could. But, with a project like lynx that I care about, I do feel a duty to call out blatant nonportabilities as such. If lynx lets this sort of code in, I'll be disappointed in them, but that's about where it'll end. If I get bitten by a resulting portability lose, I'll deal with that when it happens, like any other portability lose. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Adding $SOCKS5_PROXY support, changing command line option
>>> + socks5_proxy =3D (char*)-1; >> Don=E2=80=99t do that, that is not portable. > Really?? This i do not understand. Casting an integer, other than a compile-time constant expression with value 0, to a pointer? That is never portable. (char *)-1 could do anything from trapping immediately to producing a nil pointer to producing a pointer that happens to match something else in live use to, well, pretty much anything. C99 says (6.3.2.3) [#5] An integer may be converted to any pointer type. Exceptaspreviouslyspecified, the result is implementation-defined, might not be correctly aligned, might not point to an entity of the referenced type, and might be a trap representation.56) The "previously specified" text covers, in [#3], the "integer constant expression with value 0" case I mentioned above, in which case the conversion is required to yield a nil pointer (C99 calls this a null pointer; I don't like that name because of the confusion surrounding NULL - see http://ftp.rodents-montreal.org/mouse/blah/2009-10-09-1.html for my thoughts on that). ([#1], [#2], and [#4] cover conversions between various pointer types, not relevant to converting integers to pointers.) "[I]mplementation-defined" means, among other things, that the next implementation over may do something completely different from whatever it is you expect. Footnote 56 says 56)The mapping functions for converting a pointer to an integer or an integer to a pointer are intended to be consistent with the addressing structure of the execution environment. So, in summary, except for the null-pointer-constant special case, converting integers to pointers is intended to be useful in machine-dependent code, but is not portable beyond that. On most current systems, no, it won't cause trouble; it will do pretty much what you presumably expect. (While I didn't see enough context to really know what you expect, most such suggestions come from a mindset that I can perhaps summarize as "I thought every computer worked the way mine does", which these days usually means either Windows or Linux running on x86 or x64.) In code that's not intended to be portable beyond "most current systems", it may be fine. I would hope that lynx wants to be more portable than that, though. If you want a distinguished char * pointer that is not nil, the simple _portable_ thing to do is to allocate a char and point to it: char magic_value; // maybe static, if not needed beyond file scope socks5_proxy = _value; ... if (socks5_proxy == _value) ... /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] rendering (0x97)
> I thought the HTML5 principle is that every browser should produce > the same output regardless of whether the document was syntactically > valid, and that is why they define error cases in such detail. Then is "error" really an appropriate word? If an interpretation is defined for something, how much sense does it make to call it an error? And, of course, it's completely impossible for every browser to produce the same output, unless "the same" is taken in a ludicrously relaxed sense. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] rendering (0x97)
>> Content-Encoding=Windows-1252 > I meant Charset, and I hadn't read the other replies. > If it is the document character set I'm not sure how one should > interpret that for variable length codes. As a codepoint, rather than as a encoding octet, I would guess. Content-Type:'s charset= is actually two things. (It arguably shouldn't be, but since when has that made any difference to HTTP-family protocols?) It is a charset in the strict sense, a mapping from integer codepoints to abstract characters, and it is an encoding, a way of turning a stream of integer codepoints into a stream of octets. The latter really should be split out into a separate header; I speculate that that wasn't done because everyone used the trivial encoding for single-octet character sets, then added UTF-8, and nobody noticed that they were silently adding an encoding spec to the charset spec until after it got entrenched. I could argue it either way whether something like should be "octet 151 for the encoding specified by charset=" or "codepoint 151 for the character set specified by charset=". I do strongly believe it is broken for it to be "Unicode codepoint 151" even if the charset= specifies something very non-Unicode like 8859-14 or KOI-8. If nothing else, it makes it completely impossible to represent non-single-octet codepoints when using a character set that is not a subset of Unicode. But what I believe doesn't matter.... /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] rendering (0x97)
>> but if they are sending over the wire, rather than the a byte >> containing the value 151, the contents encoding wouldn't matter, as >> entities are interpreted in Unicode, > What do you mean? The actual Unicode number is U+2014, or 8212, and > is simply cp1252 in disguise. I think the double-quoted text above is saying that is defined to be not "codepoint 151 in the encoding specified by the Content-Type:" but rather "Unicode codepoint 151". Is that actually true? I don't know; I'm not au courant enough with Web specs to know where to look - I have as little to do with the Web as I can get away with. > I hav seen that, and , in Microsoft HTML from Word. That means little. Just because a Microsoft program generates something does not mean it's compatible with non-Microsoft software, and sometimes does not even mean it's compatible with other Microsoft software, and certainly does not mean it's correct. For example, I've seen mail generated by Microsoft tools with codepoints in the 128-159 range, obviously intended to be printable characters, but labeled as being 8859-1. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] copy URL to clipboard shortcut
> I note that you used `xclip -i` and not `xclip -i -selection clipboard`. By $ It's not restricted to Linux (GNU or not) and BSD; that's true of X in general. See the ICCCM - PRIMARY and CLIPBOARD are entirely distinct selections. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Copyright violation? How?
>> Upon setting this, lynx told me >> WARNING: Misrepresentation of the User-Agent may be a copyright violation! > Pretty sure it said this instead: > |Alert!: Use "L_y_n_x" or "Lynx" in User-Agent, or it looks like intentional > deception! My dear sir, I cut-and-pasted the message. I'm quite sure I reported it correctly. Perhaps the version you've got says that, but the one I've got - 2.8 - says (in LYMessages_en.h) #define UA_COPYRIGHT_WARNING \ "WARNING: Misrepresentation of the User-Agent may be a copyright violation!" and issues that message upon setting the user-agent to a string that's not zero-length and contains neither "Lynx" nor "lynx". > None. That message, if it even exists, is wrong. If it even exists? Goodbye. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
[Lynx-dev] Copyright violation? How?
I tried what was reported in the thread about Google's changes, setting the user-agent to claim to be Mozilla. Upon setting this, lynx told me WARNING: Misrepresentation of the User-Agent may be a copyright violation! This makes me curious. Whose copyright is potentially being violated by changing the user-agent setting, and why/how? I had a quick look at the overall copyright notices, and found nothing obviously relevant; of course, I haven't looked at each file's copyright license individually. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] problems using google
> when the situation occurs normal internet usage is impossible with a > browser, Please don't confuse the Internet with the Web. > that browser should bring the solution, not the users by moving away > from such large things as google. Where did you get this idea that it is somehow lynx's responsibility to make up for Google's hostility towards it? That makes about as much sense as saying it should include a translation engine to compensate for all the websites that aren't in Dutch. If Google insists on refusing to interoperate, which is sure what this sounds like to me, that's on Google. It is not anyone else's responsibility to somehow compensate, even if possible. > i think a browser can not take itself [seriously] when the most > visited site on earth is not usable. I disagree when the problem arises because that site insists on gratuitously breaking interoperability. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] problems using google
> but i thought this was the list of the devs It is, but this may not be fixable on the client side. > I never found anny company willing to change their site back for a > small user-base like lynx users, i guess google will not be > different. That would be my guess too: we are not a large enough fraction of their product to be worth putting resources into, especially since we are of unusually low value to their customers (many ads won't work at all in lynx, others work only poorly). > As a blind user using ubuntu console for my daily computer/internet > usage, losing google is a quite big thing. Yes. It's a pain for me too. But, well, you get what you pay for. > So instead of hopign for google to fix it, what can the lynx devs > do to make lynx work with google again? Probably not much. But I haven't looked at what Google has done to break their search results in any detail yet, so I could be wrong. (I certainly hope I am, because, as I say, the current state is a pain for me too - while it would also be a pain to try to version-jump lynx, it would be one-time pain, not ongoing pain.) > When will lynx start to intergrate proper java and html5 usage, Probably never. Most of that stuff is built around the assumption of a GUI. Also, speaking purely personally, if lynx were to integrate such things, I would want a way to turn them off, and, if it didn't exist, I would freeze at the last version before them. I don't _want_ JS and HTML5 and the like; I want my agent to do what I want it to, not what some webpage designer wants it to. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] reaching gmail in basic html?
> In October 2018, a senior staff member at google stated that since > only crooks turned off JavaScript, Google was starting to use their > own proprietary edition which among other things is supposed to > detect the presence of adaptive technology for recaptcha, That "senior staff member" either doesn't understand JavaScript or hopes other people don't. A proprietary version of JavaScript does not make sense unless the producing entity - Google, in this case - controls both ends, here meaning both the webserver side and the browser side. See below. > Additionally, when I first discovered that some Linux associated > browsers, Links and Elinks, which can be compiled with a form of > JavaScript, but which no longer work to log into gmail, I was told by > Thomas, a member of Google's accessibility team, that these browsers > did not use the "right kind" of JavaScript. Again, Thomas either does not understand JavaScript or hopes you don't. There is, in principle, no way for Google to tell whether the browser is, say, Firefox, or something else pretending to be Firefox, not as long as they're conforming to the JavaScript spec enough to interoperate with implementations other than their own. > Some of the articles I find speak of a more open source form of > JavaScript, which some Linux developers use, but which now Google > will not permit. Google is not in a position to do that, unless they are going to deny access to all Web browsers not built by Google - or at least not running Google implementations of their language (which then isn't really JavaScript any longer). What Google is counting on here is that non-"approved" JavaScript implementations are not actively trying to defeat whtaever fingerprinting Google is doing. It leads directly to an arms race between Google trying to fingerprint implementations and implementations trying to pretend. The endgame would be something like a browser running a Firefox instance in a sandbox and never displaying the results directly, only presenting what it wants to to the user. Lynx, even, could do that, if anyone wanted to bother putting in the (significant) effort to make it do so. > in short Google is defining JavaScript in such a way so as to allow > only their tracking features to function so to speak. Google is not in a position to redefine JavaScript - unless, as I said above, they always control both ends, in which case they have no need to use JavaScript at all and can just use something completely unrelated and better tuned to their purposes. This is because the essence of JavaScript is that it's all about the webserver providing code for the browser to run; JavaScript is a language for such code to be written in. For it to work at all, both ends have to agree on the language, so one end unilaterally redefining it can't work. As for accessibility in general, well, Google has only minor reason to care about accessibility. As a gmail user, you are not a Google customer; you are part of Google's product (the customers are the advertisers), and if the cost of supporting your continuing to be part of Google's product exceeds the benefit - to Google, not to you - then they have not only an incentive but a duty (to their shareholders) to drop that support. Unless you're actually paying Google for your mailbox and access, in which case it depends on how much you're paying them and what the terms of the contract are. Based on just what I've read, though, I'd guess that even in that case your having managed to get through to a real person makes you a net money loser to them. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] reaching gmail in basic html?
> This is not a client issue, as I am going directly to google for my > gmail reading. You're still using a client; it just may be a Web client rather than an POP/IMAP/etc client. > When I requested answers for accessibility reasons, one staff member > duplicated the issue using elinks, and told me that it was because > Google did not consider elinks to use the "right" kind of JavaScript. The person who told you that either doesn't really understand JavaScript or hopes you don't (more likely the former, I'd guess). JS consists of the Web page requesting that the browser fetch a bunch of code from somewhere and run it. (Strictly speaking, JS is the language the "bunch of code" is written in.) The only way speaking of the "right kind" of JS makes any sense at all is for the person to have been talking about different versions of either the language spec or the client-side implementation, and that phrasing of it is misleading-at-best in either case. My guess is still as I sketched upthread: there's some kind of "which implementation I am" value that's getting checked. Most briefly, your JS implementation is doing what Google asked it (via the Web page and JS code) to do rather than what _you_ want it to do. Also, I just (while typing this message) quit the lynx instance that I was looking at my work email in and restarted it, re-loggin-in and all. No issues. So either there's something user-specific going on or Google is lying. (Gee, _there's_ a shocker of an idea.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] reaching gmail in basic html?
> The Thunderbird story is interesting because prior to now I could use > elinks and links, which both can incorporate JavaScript to reach my > research gmail account. > They no longer allow it though because google claims it is not the > right kind of JavaScript. Generally speaking I too would love > learning how this is done. This has to depend on something in your client. Google cannot, after all, observe anything about your client except its network behaviour; something is provoking different network behaviour - or, possibly, your client's blind trust in the JS Google is sending it is causing it to refuse you locally without exhibiting _any_ network behaviour. My guess would be that your JS implementation includes some kind of "this is what sort of implementation I am" string, which Google is asking it to send back - or, more stupidly but in my estimation a little more likely, is checking somewhere in the JS code it sends to you. Learning details (without help from Google, which help I doubt would be forthcoming) would probably require inspecting the JS it sends and/or snooping the cleartext of the communication. Neither one sounds trivial to me, though. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] reaching gmail in basic html?
> gmail supports POP3 and IMAP access, My experience is that gmail supports POP and IMAP only if you are using one of a few blessed clients, all of which are huge crawling GUI horrors. Sometimes not even then; for example, back when I was fussing with mail for work, gmail refused to talk to the Thunderbird that was installed on my work laptop, claiming its encryption was insufficient in some (unspecified, as far as I can recall) respect. So I was forced onto the HTML interface. I've been using lynx with the basic HTML view and it's been working for me, but perhaps I'm just being grandfathered; I haven't meddled with the settings in quite a while now. I really wish that job would move their mail to somewhere civilized. > and it appears there are old versions of Pegasus Mail available, that > run on MS-DOS and support these with no Windows environment present. If one of them works, great, but don't be too surprised if gmail isn't interested in talking to clients that old. (If it does work, please mention it here; I'd like to try again if it appears they've relaxed the stringency of their stance.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] ..on SOCKS5 support
> I have never encountered a system where short is longer than 16-bit, > therefore i have used short. Well, i seem to recall i might have > heard of a system where short=int=32-bit, but this could be false > memory or whatever. I've similarly seen it said; specifically, I've read that some DSPs have compilers where char, short, int, and long are all the same size, 32 bits, because that's the smallest unit the hardware works with. I've never actually used such a compiler myself. But then, I've never used anything Cish on a DSP, so that means little. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] ..on SOCKS5 support
>> replacement you propose "should ... be optimisable",
> that was not the reasonâ?? the code I proposed to be replaced was
> unportable and just in general bad style.
Here's the diff I saw.
- /* C99 */ {
- unsigned short x; /* XXX 16-bit? */
-
- x = htons(socks5_port);
- memcpy([i], (unsigned char *) , sizeof x);
- i += (unsigned) sizeof(x);
- }
+ pbuf[i++] = (((unsigned)socks5_port) >> 8) & 0xFF;
+ pbuf[i++] = ((unsigned)socks5_port) & 0xFF;
What systems are you aware of where your replacement works but the
original fails? (If none, then in what sense is the one more portable
than the other?)
The original has portability issues, yes - it assumes an unsigned short
containing an htons() return value has the same size and memory layout
as what it's trying to generate. (It also assumes htons and memcpy
exist. memcpy is part of C99 in hosted implementations; I suppose one
could claim assumption of the existence of memcpy as a portability
issue, though I wouldn't, not for something that assumes the existence
of SOCKS5. Similarly, one could claim assuming the presence of htons()
as a portability issue; again, for something already depending on
SOCKS5, I wouldn't.) As for whether what it generates is what it needs
to generate, I don't know - for that, I'd need to see the relevant
interface spec, which isn't given.
Your replacement also has portability issues, to be sure, though there
are fewer of them and they are less likely to fail. (The major ones I
see offhand are that it assumes 8-bit units in the &0xFF operations and
it makes the assumption that two elements of pbuf[] holding 8-bit units
in big-endian order is correct for what it's trying to generate; again,
to tell how correct this is I'd need to see interface contracts.)
As for bad style, I don't see anything particularly wrong with the old
code's style, possibly excepting disagreeing with the surrounding
code's style. (There are various things I don't like about its style,
but "style I don't like" != "bad style".)
> I meant optimise to whatever happens to be nice on the target
> machine, of course (and if two separate stores are, so be it),
Yes, of course - but this isn't FORTRAN; there is significantly less
room than one might wish for compilers to optimize in C. I'd actually
be surprised, though only a little, to find a C compiler that would
optimize those two assignment statements into a single 16-bit store
even on a big-endian alignment-doesn't-matter machine.
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Re: [Lynx-dev] ..on SOCKS5 support
> ssh -D starts a SOCKS5 server on the SSH client side AIUI. This depends on which ssh implementation you've got. > + pbuf[i++] = (((unsigned)socks5_port) >> 8) & 0xFF; > + pbuf[i++] = ((unsigned)socks5_port) & 0xFF; > This should even be optimisable by compilers. That depends on what kind of optimization you're talking about and, depending on that, other details. I'll assume you're talking about optimizing it into a single two-byte store. Depending on which variant of C the compiler adheres to (er, tries to adhere to), and things I can't see such as the declaration of pbuf, you may need hints of one sort or another to allow the compiler to deduce that the first LHS does not alias i, socks5_port, or (if it's a pointer rather than array) pbuf itself. Even then, you would have to be on a big-endian machine, or have a byte-swapping store instruction available, for it to be optimized into a single store (though if an in-register byte-swap is available, a byte-swap plus a store may still be faster than two single-byte stores). You'd also need to be on an architecture which doesn't trap on unaligned stores, or have compiler-accessible proof that [i] is even before the sequence begins. And, of course, pbuf needs to be an array of, or pointer to, a type of suitable size and information content, but I assume that's already covered. Not that the former code is all that great; it's got its own problems. But I don't think it's all that reasonable to blithely assume the replacement you propose "should ... be optimisable", though I do suspect it is unlikely to be slower than the original on machines where each produces the right result. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] lynx and amazon?
> Even with a 64-bit binary, it may be that some part of either Lynx > itself, or the libraries on that particular system, pass the date > through a 32-bit bottleneck at some point. True. I have seen systems on 64-bit hardware that nevertheless have 32-bit time_t, for example. (I relatively recently switched from 32 to 64 bits for time_t and tv_sec on my own systems, and it was, shall we say, an interesting experience.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Cannot open: https://m.medicalxpress.com/page2.html
> | 5. Reference Resolution > | > |This section defines the process of resolving a URI reference > |within a context that allows relative references so that the result > |is a string matching the syntax rule of Section 3. > -- which doesn't really say *who* is supposed to be doing this, but I > believe it's meant to be understood as 'whenever manipulating URIs'. Whenever manipulating URIs *within a context that allows relative references*. That does not apply to the server as far as I can tell. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Cannot open: https://m.medicalxpress.com/page2.html
Wearing my pedant hat... >>> [... stuff about /./ in https: URLs...] > However, their web server is grossly at fault. '/./' in a URL is > just a reference to the current directory; Sometimes. 1738 2.1 says that In general, URLs are written as follows: : A URL contains the name of the scheme being used () followed by a colon and then a string (the ) whose interpretation depends on the scheme. so I think this is wrong as stated; depending on the scheme, /./ may or may not mean anything special. 1738 does not mention the https: scheme at all; of the http: scheme it describes / only to say that Within the and components, "/", ";", "?" are reserved. The "/" character may be used within HTTP to designate a hierarchical structure. which is notably equivocal. So far I have failed to find any spec for the https: scheme; presumably I've just missed something. 2396 does specifically say that URI that are hierarchical in nature use the slash "/" character for separating hierarchical components. For some file systems, a "/" character (used to denote the hierarchical structure of a URI) is the delimiter used to construct a file name hierarchy, and thus the URI path will look similar to a file pathname. This does NOT imply that the resource is a file or that the URI maps to an actual filesystem pathname. So speaking of /./ as "a reference to the current directory" is, at least, misleading; path components in URIs/URLs do not need to bear any relationship to directory structure anywhere. I also have not found any indication that . or .. components are special in absolute URIs/URLs; again, perhaps that's just because I haven't found the right reference. However, the language cited upthread from 1808 also occurs in 2396, in a slightly different form (5.2 item 6, which describes something very much like UNIX-style path resolution; subitem c is especially close to the upthread quote). As I said, I haven't found anything about the https: scheme, but, it seems reasonable to assume that its spec (wherever it's hiding) specifies that it's hierarchical. So I think lynx is at fault for not handling relative path resolution correctly. Depending on what I've failed to find, the webserver may also be at fault - does anyone have any pointers to the RFC(s) I've missed? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Suggestion for send user-agent header question
> Why pick on [lynx users]? Did a lynx eat their pet dog when they > were children? I have seen it said - with what level of truth I know not - that there is misbehaved scraper malware out there that pretends to be lynx. If this is true, then I suspect that a connection claiming to be lynx is statistically more likely to be malware than a real user. :-( Obviously, the fix is to get more people using lynx! :-) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Can't log on to gmail
> apulse exists to fake tools out that require pulseaudio maybe > something similar needs writing to fake other systems out on > javascript too. The latter, unfortunately, leads to in an arms race with the client side ending up with a js implementation. This is because the js sent over to test whether js is supported can be arbitrarily complicated, so the client can have to execute arbitrary js computations to make the test pass. Pulseaudio, as I understand it, does not involve a fully-general language implementation, so it's a lot easier to fake out. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Can't log on to gmail
> Google no longer accepts sign-ins without JavaScript, so it will not > be possible to sign in with Lynx. It worked for me about five hours ago as I type this - one of my employers farms out their internal email to Google. (I wouldn't go near them for my own email.) I do have it configured "basic HTML", which might be relevant. (I switched to lynx after Firefox unilaterally downgraded itself on me. Well, it called it an upgrade, but it broke a lot more than it fixed for me, so in fact it was a downgrade.) It also may be relevant that we are actually paying them to host our domain's email (not much, but some). I keep pushing them to switch away from Google, but so far they are seeing only the immediate monetary costs, which are indeed lower than those for most alternatives. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Displaying a pdf live on the Fly?
>> Are people using pdf emails? > Businesses will often send an email with [...] a PDF attachment. > Less sophisticated businesses will often do this with Microsoft Word, > not realising that they cannot predict the layout. ...nor, apparently, that not everyone has Word. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Displaying a pdf live on the Fly?
>>>> Well, lynx said it may be a binary, see it anyway? It was a mess. >> Yes. Most PDFs in my experience have most of their data compressed, >> so they are "binary junk" when looked at with tools that don't >> understand PDF structure and the compression method(s) in question. > zless may be a better alternative since it does compressed data. Not of much use here. PDFs are not simply text files which have had a general-purpose compression tool applied to them; they have internal structure, and _some_ of the content gets compressed. One PDF I have, for example, begins %PDF-1.6 %âãÏÓ 5191 0 obj <>stream after which the "binary junk" begins. A few KB later (3647 bytes, I expect), I see endstream endobj 5192 0 obj <>stream and it's back to binary compressed data. Other PDFs have more plaintext before the compressed data begins; another one I checked has some sixty or seventy lines of plain text before going into compressed data. I don't recall enough details to know whether FlateDecode's compression algorithm is close enough to any of the general-purpose compression tools like gzip or compress to be of use, but even if it is, you would at a minimum have to pick apart the PDF structure enough to extract the compressed portion. And, of course, FlateDecode is not the only compression algorithm PDFs can use. For full details, of course, read the PDF spec. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Displaying a pdf live on the Fly?
>> Hi All: I am realizing it would be easier to have lynx display pdfs >> basicly like any other texts. This would be difficult; a few PDFs aren't text at all, and many more aren't just text. How much you lose by keeping just the text can be anything on the spectrum from nothing to everything. >> Anyway we tried modifying my dot mailcap file, like this >> application/pdf; less "%s" >> Well, lynx said it may be a binary, see it anyway? It was a mess. Yes. Most PDFs in my experience have most of their data compressed, so they are "binary junk" when looked at with tools that don't understand PDF structure and the compression method(s) in question. >> So can [someone] please inform an easy way of doing this, or would I >> need an external? In full generality, there is no easy way. You will need _something_ that understands the strtucture of PDFs. Even for just a "most cases" converter, you probably will need something that knows enough about PDF structure to decompress compressed content. There is a package, xpdf, which I picked up a decade ago from ftp.foolabs.com (I don't know whether it's available anywhere these days; I can make what I have available if it would help); it includes a PDF-to-text converter which works well enough to be useful in some cases for me. There may well be something better knocking around by now; this is just the one I happen to know of. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx colors
> I would like to set lynx to display only 2 colors - black text on a > white (or light grey) background. This is similar to how I have my > terminal set up (I use st from suckless.org). Because it runs in a terminal emulator, lynx does not have direct control over colours; the most it can do is request that the terminal emulator do something and hope the terminal emulator listens. This is relevant here mostly in that it means that, if you have trouble getting lynx to do what you want, a possible alternative approach is to configure your terminal emulator to display whatever lynx is sending however you want. (I don't know st, so I don't know how configurable it is in those respects. On a real terminal, you usually don't have this luxury, but real terminals are pretty thin on the ground these days; most of them, even when they were common, amount(ed) to a dedicated machine running a terminal "emulator" anyway.) It sounds, downthread, as though you've got lynx doing what you want now, so this is mostly something for you to file away for the next time you are fighting with something running in a terminal emulator over colours - or, perhaps, for someone else having trouble with lynx and colours. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Strange behavior
>> The only thing I have been able to find is if I do a -trace the >> trace file shows a GETCH0 got 0x just before lynx closed >> down. > As Thorsten Glaser said, this is exactly how it would behave if it > received a legitimate EOF. Indeed. And the suggestions are all good ones. I just have three minor remarks: (1) > (e.g.: changing stdio settings like vmin & vtime). Minor nit: those are tty settings, not stdio settings. (2) > Essentially nothing about this has to do with Lynx, We don't actually know that at present. It could be that there is something wrong in lynx that's making one piece of code think another got an EOF from the tty when it actually didn't. Unlikely, yes, but no more so than some of the other theories given. (3) And, finally, are there any other ways of switching vtys? Some systems support software-initiated switching as well as keyboard-initiated switching; I don't know Ubuntu (or for that matter any Linux) well enough to know whether it does. If so, it might be worth trying switching other ways to see if it makes a difference. (Of course, this could be difficult to test unless you have another computer you can ssh in from or some such.) Basically, at this point we're still in the information-collection phase, trying to probe the envelope of the problem to see if we can get any hints as to where it might be. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Windows Defender ATP
>>> I just discovered the new features of Microsoft's "Windows Defender >>> Advanced Threat Protection". >> So let me get this straight... You're asking a bunch of opensource >> geeks to explain a "Feature" of a black box environment that has >> been purposefully created to "secure" said black box using an >> unknown and apparently flawed method. > I made a note that it was a "new feature". I guess "opensource > geeks" like you do not make flaws :-) Oh, nonsense; we create as many bugs as anyone else. (The difference, insofar as there is one, in this respect lies in how they get noticed and fixed.) I don't see what its being a new feature has to do with it. Your mail seemed - at least to me, and apparently to David as well - as asking us to diagnose and/or fix peculiar behaviour from this "Advanced Threat Protection", even though it's closed source, is a Windows thing, and is - apparently - designed to break some things, and your issue seems to be that it _isn't_ breaking lynx. If this looked like a bug in lynx, well, then it would be reasonable to ask the list. But the only question I see you asking was < What could cause the difference in behaviour? and those without visibility into what this Defender product does can, at best, speculate in a vacuum. The right place to look for this kind of support, it seems to me, is a support venue for Windows Defender Advanced Threat Protection. (That may involve up-front costs, yes. That is one of the prices of running under Windows.) With full packet traces from the lynx, Chrome, curl, and wget fetch attempts, I might be able to take a few guesses. I might be hireable for that, but you would doubtless find it cheaper (and probably get better results) to hire someone who has existing Windows expertise - that is work I have no interest in doing unless well paid. >> Alternately, lynx might be used by the NSA for "special" purposes so >> lynx has an exception to the rules and thus WE 0WN the >> Virtual-verse!!! > Seriously, I do *not* have "Lynx" in my User-Agent string. So what? > But lynx maybe have other "finger-prints" that NSA would detect? Are you running the lynx, Chrome, curl, and wget instances you're talking about on the same Windows machine that has Defender installed? Then there are _lots_ of other ways it could be recognizing lynx as lynx. (Even if not, there are probably plenty of various possible fingerprints, though I'm not competent to do more than speculate on them.) Not that I think a lynx-specific exception is all that plausible, mind you. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] What blanks the blank spaces at the beginning of a line?
>> Your symptoms sound potentially like what happens when one output >> layer believes that the TAB character overwrites the columns it >> passes over with spaces, while the actual output hardware just moves >> the cursor' > [...] I think lynx doesn't use TABs, does it? Not in its own right, perhaps. But the underlying cursor-update code (libcurses or whatever it's built with) may well use tabs in order to reduce characters sent to the terminal. (This is a historical relic in many respects, but it still does matter in some cases.) > HTML treats TABs as single SPACEs, right? If so, a browser asserting > one would be un-HTML. You're confusing tabs on _input_ to lynx, from HTML, with tabs on _output_ from lynx, generated by the screen update code. What the outlined problem actually sounds like to me is screen update code that doesn't realize that spaces can have visible attributes. This is a reasonable assumption when attributes are things like "bold" or "italic"; it is not for attributes like "reverse video" or "yellow on blue". This sounds to me like some code thinking that a character cell doesn't need to be updated because it has a space in it and the new character is a space, without noticing that they have visibly different attributes. Unfortunately, if this is what's going on, the relevant code is probably not in lynx, instead being in the underlying screen-update library, and thus not under lynx's control. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] redirection loop
> is your cookie being recognized, all of the ssl keys accepted? Cookies? I have run into a few websites so sloppily misdesigned that they will infinite-loop trying to set a cookie if the client does not accept it. (As a hypothetical example, if http://example.com/ redirects to http://example.com/setcookie, which tries to set a cookie in the same response as a redirect back to http://example.com/, then a cookie-ignoring client, like lynx -cookies, will infinite loop, bouncing back and forth between those two URLs.) Perhaps the run seeing the loop had lynx up to ignore cookies? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] adjusting the url redirect limit?
>> currently it is 10 redirections. >> Can this number be increased? > My experience has been that 10 is effectively infinity: if it doesn't > resolve in 10, it never does. I recently had a run-in with a webmailer for which the limit needed to be somewhere around 14. I raised it to 25 in the version I use there. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] lynx doesn't track use for most sites
> nytimes.com, washingtonpost.com, newyorker.com (and many others) rely > on users' browsers to keep track of the pages they have accessed so > as to limit use. Although lynx keeps cookies, it doesn't run the > script (or whatever it is) that these sites use, thus one can browse > them without limit. And? I'm not sure whether you're citing this as a feature, a bug, or what. Relying on the client to do _anything_ merely because the server asks it to, though, is stupid design. (Unless, I suppose, you don't really much care and are satisfied with "it works in most cases", which may be good enough here.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Does anyone use lynx?
> dear friends, is there anybody using lynx anymore ? Enough that this list is active. Speaking personally, it's the only browser I use. At work, I used to use Firefox, until one day when it decided to "upgrade" itself without even telling, much less asking, me - despite my having turned off every "check for updates" setting I could find - and broke something (I no longer recall what) in the process. That finally pushed me into switching to lynx. Except for two small and easy-to-make changes, which I think I mentioned here, lynx has worked fine for me there. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] ot: slightly web host ideas?
>> Since you can successfully SSH into your shellworld account, you >> might use it as a relay to your work machine using the "-L" option >> to SSH. [...] There is no such thing as `the "-L" option to SSH'. There is a -L option to some implementations of SSH, which is not at all the same thing. > the sshdos client I have does not have a -l option. > i. do. not. have. Linux. on. my. desktop! You're not the only one annoyed by people assuming that everyone else is running the same ssh implementation they are. (Or the same $FOO implementation they are, for various values of $FOO.) I've even run into one relatively popular program (well, suite of programs) which has such assumptions (about ssh) wired into string constants in its source code. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] ot: slightly web host ideas?
I'm thinking maybe we should take this to private mail, since it's not really related to lynx development...? >> However, this brings up another possibility. If you have shell >> access on dreamhost, which is what it sounds like to me, there is no >> technical reason you couldn't run a forwarder there that listens on >> a high port and turns the connection around to the local port 22. > I am unsure I understand this idea. > lets use shellworld as I would want to work where I already know > access on a high port functions. A reasonable idea: make sure it works in a known environment first. > I would have a user name and hostname listening on this higher port, I'm not sure what you mean by having "a user name and hostname" listening on a port. I mean just build a program - or build elsewhere and copy in, if they don't have a compiler installed - that creates a listening socket on the high port. When a connection arrives, it just opens a connection to port 22 on the target host (the dreamhost machine, in my suggested scenario) and passes data in both directions between the two. > where is the configuring actually done, is this like a proxy? I suppose you could call it a proxy. I wouldn't, since it doesn't very closely match what people seem to usually use "proxy" for in networking, but in a sense the word fits. As for where the configuring is done, that depends on the details. If it's a one-off program, it could all be wired into the source code. If you're using a stock program, it could be on the command line or in a file or wherever. Using my own nc, for example, it would be something like nc -server "nc whatever.dreamhost.com 22" 12345 & where all the configuration there is is on the command line. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] ot: slightly web host ideas?
>> First possible solution is to change the ssh port the daemon uses on >> dreamhost. > We have a shared hosting account with dreamhost, and have been told > they do not provide this service I wouldn't expect them to, on shared hosting. However, this brings up another possibility. If you have shell access on dreamhost, which is what it sounds like to me, there is no technical reason you couldn't run a forwarder there that listens on a high port and turns the connection around to the local port 22. (Of course, "no technical reason" is not "no reason". I wouldn't do it without first checking with dreamhost to ensure it wouldn't upset them.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] ot: slightly web host ideas?
> I work for a media nonprofit who currently has a hosting account with > dreamhost. Unfortunately [...] I can no longer reach our Linux shell > from my desktop ssh client. [...] > for the record, [it's] dh key exchanges that are failing, dreamhost > updated what they would allow recently..why other places on port 22 > are failing though I cannot learn, but suspect bell made changes as > well. I would not put it past Bell to deliberately corrupt kex for port-22 connections. I don't know shellworld, so I don't know what sort of administrative restirctions they might have, but I suspect there is no _technical_ reason you couldn't run a forwarder there on some high port that forwards on to dreamhost port 22. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Why Do I Receive a Gateway Timeout on www.crisisgroup.org
> Normally 504 gateway errors have nothing to do with your personal > setup. Instead they reflect a communications error between the > site's own servers, timing out communications wise. With lynx, I see an immediate (on human timescales) HTTP/1.1 504 GATEWAY_TIMEOUT response. With my own manual fetcher script, I see a redirect to HTTPS. I infer they are playing silly User-Agent: games. Maybe telling lynx to lie in its User-Agent: header would work around whatever is broken? Gateway Timeout _is_ the standard meaning of 504: "The 504 (Gateway Timeout) status code indicates that the server, while acting as a gateway or proxy, did not receive a timely response from an upstream server it needed to access in order to complete the request.". I suppose it's possible that lynx requests get redirected to a backend that's timing out. But the short time before I get the 504 argues against that. Without transparency into the server setup behind it, it's difficult to say more. Possibly relevant tidbit: www.crisisgroup.org is hosted by amazonaws.com; it resolves to 34.204.104.28 and 34.195.245.170 for me, ec2-34-204-104-28.compute-1.amazonaws.com and ec2-34-195-245-170.compute-1.amazonaws.com. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] TLS-"transport layer security" & LYNX
> My grudge against HTTPS, for example, is that just looking through an > average certificate store is an enourmous set of public keys - and it > would seem to be impossible to keep up with who actually owns the > private counterparts of these. And it only takes one to be > compromised to throw everyone's HTTPS verifications off. Quite so. I would be astonished if none had leaked. But then, the whole security model was compromised the first time a TLD-wildcard cert was issued (such as is used for "captive portal" interposers by airlines for their in-flight wifi and the like) - or, if you prefer, when support for them was implemented. > But maybe one day HTTPS will be more robust, safe. Well...maybe something derived from it will be - though I have my doubts - but, if so, I think it won't be much like HTTPS any longer. > Personally I think physically going to a business and being given a > copy of their key would be good... a mix of old and new. Yes. Throw out the whole CA-chain model; it's fundamentally broken, by wildcards, by lack of transparency of the root-CA list, and by being run by businesses and therefore having (from users' point of view) perverse incentives. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] TLS-"transport layer security" & LYNX
>>> protection from the NSA and other governments and companies >> _That_ protection was blown when the first wildcard cert was issued > If I own example.com and I get a cert for *.example.com how is that > insecure? Because there is no technical difference between that and a cert for *.com or *.qc.ca: there is no way to tell, when presented with the cert, whether everything covered by it is under common administration. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] TLS-"transport layer security" & LYNX
> SNI basically transmits the actual vhost you wish to visit, in URL > terms the part between https:// and the first slash after that, [...] > [...] > Then, the people [...] thought it would be good to create TLSv1.3 > [...] and decided to add SNI to that standard; not only that, but > they *require* it to be used now. So, TLS 1.3 is not usable for securing anything except the Web? (That is, if you aren't "visit"ing a "vhost"?) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] TLS-"transport layer security" & LYNX
>>> [...] webservers that refuse to serve anything over HTTP except a >>> redirect to HTTPS. >> They are just following an industry trend orchestrated by Google. >> [...] >> It's difficult to get a good explanation for the policy, [...] > The reason that https is being mandated is so that everyone has > protection from the NSA and other governments and companies _That_ protection was blown when the first wildcard cert was issued - or, if you think of it another way, when support for wildcard certs was implemented. (I'm not convinced the publicly available crypto is secure against letter agencies even when used securely, for that matter, but that's a separate question, and the above stands even if it is secure.) > manipulating connections, blocking connections that are deemed > "unwanted / illegal / etc.", and spying on user agents. That's all very well, and I'm glad it's available. My beef is with webservers imposing it on clients, rather than letting clients choose. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] TLS-"transport layer security" & LYNX
>> [...] webservers that refuse to serve anything over HTTP except a >> redirect to HTTPS. > They are just following an industry trend orchestrated by Google. In > particular, having a non-HTTPS site will result in appearing a long > way down the Google search results. Most sites are either their to > sell something, or to sell people to advertisers, so they want a good > google ranking. Perhaps. But some sites for which I would think Google rankings are irrelevant are joining in, even - like CIRA, which goodness knows I'm no fan of but for which I have trouble seeing Google ranking as outweighing their duty to be as accessible to everyone as possible. Perhaps what you outline is most of it, and the others are just bandwagon-jumpers, or some such. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] TLS-"transport layer security" & LYNX
>>> [...] go to for my work and it gets worse daily. >> Me too, but it's not lynx's fault in my case. > If itâ??s â??getting worse dailyâ?? I suspect itâ??s the fault of all > those sites and CDNs now requiring TLSv1.1 or TLSv1.2 or an ECC > ciphersuite. I am hit hard by those as well. Actually, in my case, it's the fault of webservers that refuse to serve anything over HTTP except a redirect to HTTPS. I neither have nor want HTTPS support. > Thereâ??s likely no way out except upgrading to LibreSSL or > something. But thatâ??s an OS-wide issue, nothing lynx can help you > with. If lynx can't build with TLS support other than the underlying OS's, I respectfully submit that its build procedure is broken. :-) > I admit having been a proponent of using HTTPS everywhere for quite > some time, [Mini-rant alert.] That's not an unreasonable choice for clients. But for servers? Because there is no way to negotiate, to arranve that clients that are willing to switch to HTTPS do so and clients that aren't don't, I think it is unreasonable for servers to insist on it. (In general. There certainly are things for which it's reasonable.) I do nothing at all on the Web for which HTTPS is appropriate or even helpful; why should I have to pay the CPU cycle and exposed attack surface costs of HTTPS support? Yet increasingly large numbers of webservers insist on ramming HTTPS down my throat anyway. (Or, rather, trying to. Since I don't have HTTPS support, all they succeed in doing is driving me away from their pages.) > (so I now continue offering https but wonâ??t force people to use it, > except on actual login pages and such and the > confidential/user-specific data they generate). Thank you. Would that all web admins were that sane. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] TLS-"transport layer security" & LYNX
> Hi to any of you programmers who can please fix this! > Using LYNX, I'm now shut out of more than 50% of websites I normally > go to for my work and it gets worse daily. Me too, but it's not lynx's fault in my case. What you've said is not a useful problem report. I'm not someone who would be working on this, but if I were, I would be asking for specifics like - At least a few examples of specific URLs you see failures from - What goes wrong (that is, what you expect and what you get) For example, I've had some failures trying to use lynx with various websites where all I get is a "403 Forbidden" nginx page. I don't know what's wrong, but I see no reason to think it's lynx's fault. In your case, it might or might not be lynx's fault; if it's not, it might or might not be feasible for lynx to work around the actual problem - we don't have enough information to tell. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] HTTPS [was: Lynx does NOT default to https support]
>>> PS. https support is essential now days >> Perhaps for what you want to do. [...] - I neither have nor want >> HTTPS support. > The current advice to web site operators is that http sites should > always redirect to https ones, Advice...from whom? I know _I_ certainly am not about to impair the accessibility of what I export to the Web to that extent. > It appears to be a policy pushed by Google, and it looks as though > http sites will lose their position in Google's search results. This matters only for website admins who care about Google's rankings. Despite apparent beliefs to the contrary held by various persons and organizations, running a business is not the only reason to export webpages. I don't give a damn what rank Google gives me - and, indeed, I note that Google itself still supports HTTP, as do a perhaps-surprising number of businesses and semi-businesses, and quite a lot of non-businesses. > If you impose a no https policy on the internet, you will find that > you can only access sites that don't know or care about current best > practice. First, I have to call you on equating the Web to the Internet. The Internet is a communications infrastructure. The Web is one service run over it. They are not equivalent. I also am in no position to impose anything at all on "the Internet", only on the miniscule corner of it I run and on my own uses of it. That said, and the insanity of considering Google's preferences to be equivalent to "current best practice" aside, I find there are very few websites that I actually miss accessing due to their choice to drink the "require HTTPS from everyone" koolaid, and those few I perhaps miss but get along without just fine. You, of course, are welcome to choose otherwise. For your use cases for the Web, HTTPS may indeed be essential. I'm just pointing out that it definitely is not so for everyone. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx does NOT default to https support
> PS. https support is essential now days Perhaps for what you want to do. I do just fine without it, and, indeed, if lynx defaulted to HTTPS support on, I would disable it before building - I neither have nor want HTTPS support. (On my home machines, that is. At work, on work machines - I use lynx both at home and at work - I build an HTTPS-capable version because that's what work needs.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] logging lynx
>> I do not understand why lynx would syslog anything > If one enables logging lynx logs all accesses. This keeps a browsing > history I can consult (14 years' worth now). [...] Sounds useful, but it seems to me syslog is a wrong tool for that job. That's something for the lynx user, whereas syslog logs are for sysadmins. Of course, most machines these days effectively have no users besides their sysadmin, but that's no reason to confuse the two for the machines where it still is a real distinction. (Even today, machines not too infrequently have guest accounts.) Hmm, maybe captive-account uses of lynx should use syslog? Arguably lynx should be capable of logging to syslog and capable of logging to a user-level daemon/file. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] buiid warning
> I change LYUtils.c to log lynx to its own level: [...] > If this interested others you could make it a parameter, say in > userdefs.h. I do not understand why lynx would syslog anything (probably a failure of my imagination), but I definitely think the facility of any logging it does should be configurable at least a build time, preferably at startup time. > Perhaps everybody else uses rsyslog these days. Certainly not _quite_ everybody; I, for example, don't, for multiple reasons not really relevant here. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
[Lynx-dev] Wishlist item and two past wishlist items
Here's a wish-list item for lynx: something I can type when prompted about cookies to say "always for this run". Basically, an answer that turns on accept_all_cookies for the remainder of that run. And two used-to-be wish-list items which I've dealt with in the source, though inelegantly: (1) boost the redirection count limit from 10 to something higher (I think I counted 12 in the use case at hand) and (2) a way to automatically answer the "Wrap lines to fit displayed area?" question upon externally editing a text field. Ideally, of course, I'd like these to be user-configuration settings. For my own use, I dealt with the former by bashing 10 to 25 in HTLoadDocument() and dealt with the latter by removing the if and the contained settings of wanted_fieldlen_wrap, replacing them with unconditionally setting it the way I want. (I can provide patches if anyone wants; I hesitate to do so without requests (a) because I don't know the list etiquette on posting patches and (b) I suspect what I did would be considered too heavy-handed to be appropriate for general-purpose use.) I tried to do a (similarly inelegant) patch for the cookie thing but failed; so far I haven't tracked down why it didn't work. Thoughts? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] lynx startup message
> No, I have no i386 system here. The only intel stuff in this system > is some of the peripherals on the motherboard, all systems in this > house are amd. Not i386 in terms of "Intel 80386 CPU", but i386 in the sense of "same basic instruction set as Intel 80386": 32-bit x86 instruction set as opposed to the 64-bit x86 instruction set (which is what the executable is for). "uname -m" should print the architecture name your system is running under; I'm guessing you'll see "i386". I don't know whether the Athlon K8 is 64-bit capable; I'd guess not, but if so I'll further guess that you're running a 32-bit system, not a 64-bit system, and thus can't run a 64-bit binary. (You'll probably see "i386" for 32-bit and "amd64", "x86_64", or maybe "x86-64" for 64-bit.) There is some chance you'll see something else. But I am moderately confident "Athelon" is a typo for "Athlon", indicating x86 architecture, rather than a name for an ARM variant or some such. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] lynx startup message
>>> sh: line 0: test: .: binary operator expected >> This message isn't coming from Lynx. It is coming from a shell >> script. I think more likely it's coming from the lynx binary being mistaken for a shell script. Do you get the same (or a similar) message from running "sh /usr/bin/lynx"? The real question, of course, is _why_ it would be mistaken for a shell script, since (at least if file(1) is to be trusted) it is not one. That I can do no more than take guesses at, but here are two: - It's lost its execute permission and the shell in use is guessing it might be a script when exec() fails, without noticing the lack of an execute bit. - /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 isn't what it's expected to be, so exec is failing. (This could be because it's been damaged or because the binary was linked on a different system from the execution system, with the dynamic linker "interpreter" at a different path.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
Re: [Lynx-dev] Cancel a goto request
> I know control g will cancel many goto and/or link requests. But > when I get a "waiting for response" it does nothing and that can > remain for a very long time. > Is there or could there be a similar command to cancel a request in > all contexts regardless of how the target is responding? z maybe? In my experience that usually does what it sounds to me as though you want. I don't know about "all contexts", but it works in enough cases to be useful to me. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Lynx-dev mailing list Lynx-dev@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lynx-dev
