Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?
On 10/11/2009 05:11 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: rgheck wrote: Right now, only bibtex and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as a choice, too. Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly. Excellent. rh
Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?
rgheck wrote: > Right now, only bibtex > and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as > a choice, too. Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly. Jürgen
Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?
Recently, I had the same problem. BibTeX generated wrong characters or
errors, due to bad encoding. It was complaining that it can not
understand \h{o} as a control sequence! Why? I thought it is a general
way to get accented letters.
I have switched in the .bib file from LateX encoding to UTF8 and then to
my local ISO8859-2 encoding. The last switch solved the problem. LyX
file has UTF8 encoding.
I have just read the other e-mails. When I finish with the current,
writing I will also try biber.
Alex
Stefano Franchi írta:
> Problem solved, but I am even more confused than before.
>
> I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent
> fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.
>
> As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file.
> Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane solved all
> the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted
> correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.
>
> I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by
> bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if
> there is some magic going on behind the scenes.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> S.
>
>
>
>
> On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote:
>> On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
>>> Thanks Richard,
>>>
>>> I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber
>>> (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of
>>> the LyX file.
>> Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list
>> of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can
>> select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's
>> bibtex and bibtex8, with a "custom" option as well.
>>
>> rh
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Stefano
>>>
>>> On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote:
On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with
> LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about
> it...
>
> Here is my problem/use-case:
>
> I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which
> contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref
> suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one
> (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I
> accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing
> diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance
> Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on.
>
> Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am
> sure the day will come when I will master these encoding issues.
> Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet.
It sounds like there may be a couple issues here.
First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support
UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has
changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: "In contrast
to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to
use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support
multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files,
it only does so by chance." And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX
for some of its work, this won't change even there.
There's also this project, though:
http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX
with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be
possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even
work without it. I don't know.
The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the
encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the
document isn't in UTF-8.
Richard
Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?
On 10/10/2009 01:19 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote: I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is it sufficient to specify "biber" instead of "bibtex" in the preferences (i.e. in Tools>>preferences>>File Formats>>BibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the output in the console, lyx seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the developers' side is required. You should be fine. The work we need to do is relevant only to 1.7, I think. There, LyX will present you with choices for your bib processor, or allow you to specify it manually, as in 1.6. Right now, only bibtex and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as a choice, too. Richard
Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?
On Saturday 10 October 2009 11:41:39 am rgheck wrote: > On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote: > > Problem solved, but I am even more confused than before. > > > > I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time > > spent fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained. > > > > As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX > > file. Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane > > solved all the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were > > formatted correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber. > > > > I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by > > bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering > > if there is some magic going on behind the scenes. > > As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work > with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems > arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using > biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will > give you a chance of having it work all the time. > > rh > Thanks Richard, so I am going to follow your suggestion and switch to biber. I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is it sufficient to specify "biber" instead of "bibtex" in the preferences (i.e. in Tools>>preferences>>File Formats>>BibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the output in the console, lyx seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the developers' side is required. Cheers, S. __ Stefano Franchi Department of Philosophy Ph: (979) 862-2211 Texas A&M University Fax: (979) 845-0458 305B Bolton Hall fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu College Station, TX 77843-4237
Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?
On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote: Problem solved, but I am even more confused than before. I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained. As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane solved all the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber. I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if there is some magic going on behind the scenes. As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will give you a chance of having it work all the time. rh
Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?
Problem solved, but I am even more confused than before. I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained. As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane solved all the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber. I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if there is some magic going on behind the scenes. Cheers, S. On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote: > On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote: > > Thanks Richard, > > > > I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber > > (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of > > the LyX file. > > Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list > of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can > select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's > bibtex and bibtex8, with a "custom" option as well. > > rh > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Stefano > > > > On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote: > >> On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote: > >>> Dear all, > >>> > >>> is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with > >>> LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about > >>> it... > >>> > >>> Here is my problem/use-case: > >>> > >>> I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which > >>> contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref > >>> suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one > >>> (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I > >>> accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing > >>> diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance > >>> Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on. > >>> > >>> Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am > >>> sure the day will come when I will master these encoding issues. > >>> Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet. > >> > >> It sounds like there may be a couple issues here. > >> > >> First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support > >> UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has > >> changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: "In contrast > >> to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to > >> use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support > >> multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files, > >> it only does so by chance." And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX > >> for some of its work, this won't change even there. > >> > >> There's also this project, though: > >> http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX > >> with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be > >> possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even > >> work without it. I don't know. > >> > >> The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the > >> encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the > >> document isn't in UTF-8. > >> > >> Richard > > > > __ > > Stefano Franchi > > Department of Philosophy Ph: (979) 862-2211 > > Texas A&M University Fax: (979) 845-0458 > > 305B Bolton Hall fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu > > College Station, TX 77843-4237 > __ Stefano Franchi Department of Philosophy Ph: (979) 862-2211 Texas A&M University Fax: (979) 845-0458 305B Bolton Hall fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu College Station, TX 77843-4237
