Re: CamelBones: Will hack for food!
At 5:25 PM -0400 5/8/07, Sherm Pendley wrote: there's a very widespread misconception that Perl is useful for system admins, web developers, and little else. One thing I find personally frustrating is the corollary, that Perl *programmers* must be admins or web devs. I find that frustrating because I'm not an admin, and while I don't mind web work, I don't want to focus on it exclusively. So, what can be done to change that?... I certainly don't know -- I'm a physician, not a professional programmer, but I have used many scripts, including scripts written in Perl, to increase my office productivity and to make throughput easier. I also use it in non-office matters as my tool of choice whenever graphic files are involved. In general, I find Perl to be very useful when I'm dealing with data that is mostly in the form of strings, which happens for me in a number of circumstances. HTH, Jonathan
Re: Speaking of support for Camel Bones
Sherm Pendley wrote: On May 8, 2007, at 5:23 PM, Bruce Van Allen wrote: I think we can confidently answer the "Benefits to the Perl Community" issue. That's my biggest concern. CB is mostly of use to the subset of the community who are using Macs, and need to write GUI apps. My concern is whether that's a big enough subset to warrant a grant. They've sponsored some projects with *very* small audiences in the past, such as pVoice. I'm sure that Camelbones's audience outweighs pVoice's by at least a couple of orders of magnitude - although "helping trendy Mac users" is less press-worthy than "helping disabled people". -- David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol.-- W C Fields
Re: Speaking of support for Camel Bones
On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 05:38:42PM -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote: > On May 8, 2007, at 5:23 PM, Bruce Van Allen wrote: > > >I think we can confidently answer the "Benefits to the Perl Community" > >issue. > > That's my biggest concern. CB is mostly of use to the subset of the > community who are using Macs, and need to write GUI apps. My concern > is whether that's a big enough subset to warrant a grant. Don't just think about the "Benefits to the Perl _Developer_ Community". Also think in terms of increasing the size of the Perl _User_ Community by enabling quality Mac apps to be implemented in/with perl. Tim.
Re: CamelBones: Will hack for food!
Sherm et al., I know that a great deal of Bioinformatics people also use Perl ... and Macs! If some of the framework could be shown how it would be good for these people to use Camelbones, maybe that would help with takeup. I tend to just use the Tk library for all my UI stuff (or web browser) and don't worry about Cocoa at all. I agree that restricting Perl to use in sysadmin work, or CGI development, is unfortunate. I use if for everything ... Good luck with the search for work! I'm happy to host downloads, etc. from any of my servers. Best wishes, John. On 8 May 2007, at 22:25, Sherm Pendley wrote: On May 7, 2007, at 6:23 AM, David Cantrell wrote: On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 08:25:49PM +0100, Alex Robinson wrote: Why did the OS X loving bit of the perl community sit by and let PyObjC become the default bridge. Because the vast majority of perl people who moved to OS X did so because it was Unix That Worked On A Laptop and not because it was Mac. Too many of us still sneer at anything non-Unix. It's not just in Mac circles either - there's a very widespread misconception that Perl is useful for system admins, web developers, and little else. One thing I find personally frustrating is the corollary, that Perl *programmers* must be admins or web devs. I find that frustrating because I'm not an admin, and while I don't mind web work, I don't want to focus on it exclusively. So, what can be done to change that? It's basically a PR/evangelism problem, which is well outside my area of expertise. Any suggestions? sherm-- Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Dr. John G. Keating Department of Computer Science National University of Ireland, Maynooth Maynooth, Co. Kildare, IRELAND. Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel:+353 1 708 3854 FAX:+353 1 708 3848 - Manny: Let's paaarrrtt ... Bernard:Don't you dare use the word party as a verb in this shop
Re: Speaking of support for Camel Bones
On May 8, 2007, at 5:23 PM, Bruce Van Allen wrote: On 5/7/07 Chris Nandor wrote: Have you considered a Perl Foundation Grant? On 5/7/07 Tim Bunce wrote: Seconded, FWIW. On 5/8/07 Tom Yarrish wrote: This just came through on my RSS reader. http://news.perl-foundation.org/2007/05/calls_for_proposals.html Let's get behind this. Sherm could do some work that moves CB forward, maybe the ".scriptingbridge" metadata. I can't send money right now -- I freelance and am also currently in a trough. But I've done lots of editing and grant-writing, so if you need that kind of help to tighten up a proposal, let me know. That would certainly be a help. I've never written a proposal like this before. I'd like to learn, so I'd prefer to write at least the first draft myself, but feedback from someone with experience would be very valuable. Also, I notice that the Perl Foundation guidelines don't mention letters of support, but if Sherm submits a proposal, letters to vouch for him & CB would probably help (now Chris, don't auto-bury them ;-). I think he only does that for Red Sox polls. :-) I think we can confidently answer the "Benefits to the Perl Community" issue. That's my biggest concern. CB is mostly of use to the subset of the community who are using Macs, and need to write GUI apps. My concern is whether that's a big enough subset to warrant a grant. Maybe Apple could make a grant to TPF -- tax-deductible 'n' all -- designated for this project... I'll ask my sponsor at Apple about it. sherm-- Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: CamelBones: Will hack for food!
On May 7, 2007, at 6:23 AM, David Cantrell wrote: On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 08:25:49PM +0100, Alex Robinson wrote: Why did the OS X loving bit of the perl community sit by and let PyObjC become the default bridge. Because the vast majority of perl people who moved to OS X did so because it was Unix That Worked On A Laptop and not because it was Mac. Too many of us still sneer at anything non-Unix. It's not just in Mac circles either - there's a very widespread misconception that Perl is useful for system admins, web developers, and little else. One thing I find personally frustrating is the corollary, that Perl *programmers* must be admins or web devs. I find that frustrating because I'm not an admin, and while I don't mind web work, I don't want to focus on it exclusively. So, what can be done to change that? It's basically a PR/evangelism problem, which is well outside my area of expertise. Any suggestions? sherm-- Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: Speaking of support for Camel Bones
On 5/7/07 Chris Nandor wrote: >Have you considered a Perl Foundation Grant? On 5/7/07 Tim Bunce wrote: >Seconded, FWIW. On 5/8/07 Tom Yarrish wrote: >This just came through on my RSS reader. >http://news.perl-foundation.org/2007/05/calls_for_proposals.html Let's get behind this. Sherm could do some work that moves CB forward, maybe the ".scriptingbridge" metadata. I can't send money right now -- I freelance and am also currently in a trough. But I've done lots of editing and grant-writing, so if you need that kind of help to tighten up a proposal, let me know. Also, I notice that the Perl Foundation guidelines don't mention letters of support, but if Sherm submits a proposal, letters to vouch for him & CB would probably help (now Chris, don't auto-bury them ;-). I think we can confidently answer the "Benefits to the Perl Community" issue. Maybe Apple could make a grant to TPF -- tax-deductible 'n' all -- designated for this project... Best, - Bruce __bruce__van_allen__santa_cruz__ca__
Re: CamelBones: Will hack for food!
On May 7, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Chris Nandor wrote: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sherm Pendley) wrote: I need donations to CamelBones. Or web hosting customers. Or consulting clients. Or a plain old-fashioned job. Or something - and I need it soon. Have you considered a Perl Foundation Grant? Surely this is more worthy than some of the other grants they've done. I've considered it, but one of the requirements is that the proposed project benefits a "large segment" of the Perl community. Honestly, I've never figured CamelBones would meet that requirement - Mac users are a pretty small niche, Cocoa developers a small niche within that, and Cocoa/Perl developers a small niche within that. On the other hand, it appears that quite a few of Perl's "heavy hitters" are using Macs. And it certainly couldn't hurt to ask. So I'll write up a proposal for this round, and see what happens. sherm-- Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Speaking of support for Camel Bones
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