Trillion question.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve just recently noticed after connecting to trillion, that it just says “off 
line contacts,” and won’t show my on line contacts anymore, and I know I have 
contacts on line, because I check my messenger app on my Iphone, and have 
several on line there.  Also, I just select one at random after doing a 
right-arrow command, which pulls up everybody, which doesn’t tell me whether 
they’re on or off line, IM someone, and get lucky when someone responds, so 
obviously someone’s on line then, so I have no idea what’s going on now.  I’m 
not sure if it auto-updates, and if so, the latest update has accessibility 
issues, or what the deal is, but this just seemed to suddenly happen out of the 
blue.  Has anyone else had this issue?

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Printing envelopes from the Mac

[Antonio Guimaraes]

Can it be done? If so, how?

Thanks,

Antonio


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Re: How to change the voice over voice without going into the VO utility

[Singing Sparrow]

you are looking for control option command left and right arrows in 
combo with up and down arrows.



On 9/23/2016 6:39 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

I just upgraded my Mac to Sierra, and everything seems to have gone without a 
hitch. However, I just know there was a keyboard command involving the use of 
the arrows and some combination of shift control command etc., but let you 
change the voice being used by voiceover on the fly, without having to go into 
the utility and change the default or content voices at Cetera. I haven't been 
using my Mac all that much for any foreign language stuff lately, mostly using 
the phone. But I do have some things on the Mac in Russian, and I wanted to 
quickly be able to move between my English and Russian voices. And I cannot 
find the keyboard command to do it. I've been through voiceover commands help. 
No joy. I know I am missing something obvious here.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



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Re: Xcode 8 Errors

[Jeff Berwick]

Sorry, your message seems to be cut off.  

AS I mentioned, I have successfully submitted this app to the App Store and it 
is out there now.  The only difference is that I am now using Xcode 8 to 
achieve and submit.

Jeff

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 4:27 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like you need to get digital signing for the app and if 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Berwick
> Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 7:20 AM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Xcode 8 Errors
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Recently I developed an IOS app using Cordova.  I did this to minimize the 
> time I spent using Xcode.  I submitted to the App Store and have been happily 
> making enhancements as I go along.  
> 
> Well, I’ve upgraded to Xcode 8 now and it is kicking my butt.  
> 
> I now have the following two errors:
> 
> Code signing is required for product type 'Application' in SDK 'iOS 10.0', 
> Error Signing for "Game7Analytics" requires a development team. Select a 
> development team in the project , Error
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> How can I get to the project editor?  
> 
> I seem to sometimes find my way to the right area—at least I think I’m in the 
> right area—but I can’t recreate my steps…I’m interacting and clicking all 
> over the place and haven’t got a clue what to do.
> 
> I need to upload a new fix, so I need some help.
> 
> Thx,
> Jeff
> 
> 
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How to use Caps Locks in macOS Sierra to switch between keyboards that use different characters

[-dan d.]

http://www.macworld.com/article/3123735/macs/how-to-use-cap-locks-in-macos-sierra-to-switch-between-keyboards-that-use-different-characters.html#tk.r

XB

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Start-up creates iPhone 7 analog headphone adapter, charger

[-dan d.]

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3126456/apple-ios/start-up-creates-iphone-7-analog-headphone-adapter-charger.html#tk.rss_news

XB

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You can now use an iPhone to log into a Windows 10 PC,

[-dan d.]

http://www.cio.com/article/3126033/you-can-now-use-an-iphone-to-log-into-a-windows-10-pc-microsoft-says.html#tk.rss_all

XB

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Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[David Chittenden]

One thing I have learned over the years is, if multiple people misunderstand 
what I have said or written, it usually means I have not spoken or written the 
way I think I have. Since I am the one who is attempting to get others to 
understand me, it is upon me to figure out how to state in a way which is 
understood by others. Attacking others because what I wrote led to different 
understanding from what I was attempting to say serves only to alienate me.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 30/09/2016, at 23:44, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> With all due respect David, you are a good example of those who do not read 
> what is written. My 2009 machine is the Mac Mini in question. So, that equals 
> 7 years old.
> 
> My five-year-old machine is a custom built Windows device. So, it was 
> acquired in 2012.
> 
> I do use both operating systems. Therefore, despite the advice from another 
> contributor I have every right to be part of this community. My posts are not 
> intended to be taken as a personal attack on any member of the list. There 
> are those, however, who seem to take any negativity directed towards Apple 
> and its products as an attack on them personally. Ah well, still good to be 
> alive despite all that.
> Have a good day from a very sunny UK.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:53 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> 2009 machine in 2016 is a 7 year old machine, not a 5 year old machine.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 30/09/2016, at 02:39, Martin Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>> approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
>> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
>> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
>> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
>> new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
>> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
>> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
>> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
>> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
>> upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both light-heartedly laughed, he has 
>> only been half as well screwed as I myself have.
>> 
>> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues 
>> to revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over 
>> another cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with 
>> great built-in accessibility. The weakness in their model from a 
>> consumer's perspective is that they provide both the hardware and the 
>> software. Although this has many 

Re: Alex on my iPhone six.

[Stacey Robinson]

Thanks I believe I’ve got it then.
Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 12:32 PM, christopher hallsworth 
>  wrote:
> 
> It doesn’t, but what you select in “voice”, previously “default dialect”, 
> will be the voice used unless you change it in the language rotor.
>> On 30 Sep 2016, at 15:41, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello.
>> How can I make sure Alex is my default voice on my phone?
>> I’ve selected it but it doesn’t say default.
>> 
>> Peace,   
>> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>>  
>> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
>> 
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Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Tim Kilburn]

A chicken wouldn't last outside either.  A world of contrasts here.  I'm not 
sure that bare feet would have been practical bak in May either when our city 
was under siege by the wildfire we affectionately call the Beast.  Ruddy hot or 
freezing cold.  Tough on bare feet no matter what the animal.

But, I digress.  Topic closed.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 14:19, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Chicken!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 2:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Hi,

Barefoot is not really practical up here in the Great White North.  40 or 50 
below does not load well on bare feet :).

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 06:34, Ray Foret jr  wrote:

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
> blind built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails 
>> before responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was 
>> forcing me to upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even 
>> if I desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I 
>> don't agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the 
>> reference here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan 
>> of such an approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better.
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no 
>> doubt of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too 
>> last. It defeats the purpose however if the hardware 

RE: Xcode 8 Errors

[Simon Fogarty]

Sounds like you need to get digital signing for the app and if 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Jeff Berwick
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 7:20 AM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Xcode 8 Errors

Hi all,

Recently I developed an IOS app using Cordova.  I did this to minimize the time 
I spent using Xcode.  I submitted to the App Store and have been happily making 
enhancements as I go along.  

Well, I’ve upgraded to Xcode 8 now and it is kicking my butt.  

I now have the following two errors:

Code signing is required for product type 'Application' in SDK 'iOS 10.0', 
Error Signing for "Game7Analytics" requires a development team. Select a 
development team in the project , Error

Any thoughts?

How can I get to the project editor?  

I seem to sometimes find my way to the right area—at least I think I’m in the 
right area—but I can’t recreate my steps…I’m interacting and clicking all over 
the place and haven’t got a clue what to do.

I need to upload a new fix, so I need some help.

Thx,
Jeff


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RE: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[Simon Fogarty]

Very few issues with my Mac,

 I had to learn to use the Mac for work reasons, then I purchased one and now 
run bothmacOSX and windows on my MBA 
As for windows machines with bloat ware,

Yes I felt the same way so with my last 3 widnows machines I always wiped them 
and then reinstalled a fresh copy of windows without the garbage 
 That way it was a lot easier.


Good luck.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Hannah
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 7:11 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

HI Simon .

thankyou .

Well i hate this windows laptop .

just fed up of buying windows computers with bloat ware on them .

Do you get any issues with the mack at times?

On 30/09/2016 07:59, Simon Fogarty wrote:
> Hannah
>
>
> You’re a lucky lady,
>
>  I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO I think you'll be even 
> better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor will add to the 
> performance also.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hannah
> Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance
>
> HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .
>
>
>
> On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come 
>> with the latest MacOS pre-installed.
>>
>> Later...
>>
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
>> wrote:
>>
>> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never 
>> had trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
>>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
>>>
>>>  I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, 
>>> it was only 500 which is too small.
>>>
>>>  Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
>>> weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
>>>
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>
>>> On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
 Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
 Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
 preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update 
 to Sierra at a moment’s notice.


> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:
>
> Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
>> first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver 
>> would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard 
>> disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always 
>> been like that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as 
>> expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
>>
>>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 

>>>
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[christopher hallsworth]

Hi thank you. Well she chose it so that’s that. She may look at Fusion as a 
future gift. I explained that this is a better way of running Windows on her 
mac should she wish to.
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 21:23, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Yes, I love my MBA which is fully spec'd out a 2013 model,
> 
> But I think I'm going to have to go pro next time due to wishing to drop 
> bootcamp and use fusion for my vms which I currently have 3 of 
> Then again as I'm not thinking of updating till next year may be MBA specs 
> will change upwards 
> 
> Good work on the buy.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of christopher hallsworth
> Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 6:57 AM
> To: Macvisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance
> 
> THat was my thinking as well. MBA is ok, but a little slow to my liking. I 
> would always go for an MBP. Think of MBA as Apple’s answer to the days of the 
> netbook, while MBP is Apple’s answer to a powerhouse of a Windows laptop.
>> On 30 Sep 2016, at 07:59, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Hannah
>> 
>> 
>> You’re a lucky lady,
>> 
>> I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO I think you'll be even 
>> better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor will add to the 
>> performance also.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hannah
>> Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance
>> 
>> HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come 
>>> with the latest MacOS pre-installed.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never 
>>> had trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
 On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, 
 it was only 500 which is too small.
 
 Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
 weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
> Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 
> 2015 Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with 
> Yosemite preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So 
> will update to Sierra at a moment’s notice.
> 
> 
>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
>> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>>> Hello everyone.
>>> 
>>> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
>>> first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver 
>>> would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard 
>>> disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always 
>>> been like that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as 
>>> expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to 

RE: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Chris,

 Yes, I love my MBA which is fully spec'd out a 2013 model,

 But I think I'm going to have to go pro next time due to wishing to drop 
bootcamp and use fusion for my vms which I currently have 3 of 
Then again as I'm not thinking of updating till next year may be MBA specs will 
change upwards 

Good work on the buy.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of christopher hallsworth
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 6:57 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

THat was my thinking as well. MBA is ok, but a little slow to my liking. I 
would always go for an MBP. Think of MBA as Apple’s answer to the days of the 
netbook, while MBP is Apple’s answer to a powerhouse of a Windows laptop.
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 07:59, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hannah
> 
> 
> You’re a lucky lady,
> 
> I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO I think you'll be even 
> better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor will add to the 
> performance also.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hannah
> Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance
> 
> HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .
> 
> 
> 
> On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come 
>> with the latest MacOS pre-installed.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never 
>> had trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
>>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, 
>>> it was only 500 which is too small.
>>> 
>>> Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
>>> weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
 Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
 Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
 preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update 
 to Sierra at a moment’s notice.
 
 
> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>> Hello everyone.
>> 
>> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
>> first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver 
>> would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard 
>> disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always 
>> been like that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as 
>> expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
>> 
>> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is 

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Simon Fogarty]

Chicken!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 2:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Hi,

Barefoot is not really practical up here in the Great White North.  40 or 50 
below does not load well on bare feet :).

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 06:34, Ray Foret jr  wrote:

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
> blind built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails 
>> before responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was 
>> forcing me to upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even 
>> if I desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I 
>> don't agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the 
>> reference here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan 
>> of such an approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better.
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no 
>> doubt of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too 
>> last. It defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be 
>> upgraded to match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, 
>> without buying a new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same 
>> size hard drive. I, on the other hand, 

RE: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah I wish I was in more of a situation to have a look,

I do think that having the drive taken out and completely wiped is going to be 
the best result at this point.

Ramy if your  reading,

I think Tim and I are out of ideas in this situation.

I would suggest getting the mac mini back to the tech and having him remove the 
drive and then completely wipe it clean.

Even if he does nothing more then we can or should I say should be able to get 
it up and working the same way we did with your USB flash drive.

But the tech could be a nice guy and wipe then partition the drive in to 1 
partition with mac osx extended journeled and GUID

Then an install via USB will be or should I say should work perfectly  touch 
wood.

Please update us on what you are thinking next.

Hope this Helps.

Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 2:11 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hi,

Target Disk mode will only work with USB, Firewire or Thunderbolt, no ethernet, 
sorry.  Yes, Terminal would be another good option, although, not near as 
friendly to the inexperienced.  After reading your posts with respect to the 
USB startup stick initially seeing the drive, that makes my suggestion of the 
drive not being seated properly as unlikely.

Wish I was closer.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 01:19, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:

Hi Ramy,

Ok, glad the install went ok to the USB,

Yes sorry it is going to be slow but it is only a work around until we get 
things up and running correctly on the SSD.

Tim,

Do you know if target disk mode will work via an Ethernet network cable?

Ramy,

Do you by anychance have a thunderbolt to thunderbolt cable?

Or can you get hold of one for a couple of days?

Tim your  thoughts on my thinking,

If Ramy starts up his mac mini using the USB flash drive which is working,
But into target disk mode,
Should he be able to see the SSD if the USB Flash drive is the primary os drive 
in the machine?

Just wondering if target disk mode worked he could partition the ssd via that 
means?

I'm starting to think that the SSD might be needing to be taken out again and 
wiped then put back in and setup from scratch.

Ramy I'll try getting hold of one of our work mac techs and see if they can 
give me a command line command for partitioning the SSD


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 9:31 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hello Simon and TIm:
after doing what Simon told me, my mac opened with Mountain lion installed on 
my 16 GB, it's so slow but I can get the disk utility.
the Surprise  is that, the disk utility can not see the SSD HD at all, don't 
know why, but it can not see it at all.
any ideas?
it can  see only the Kingstone USB, any ideas?


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa 
> wrote:

Thanks so much tim, and I know that you are a very great helper.

On 9/29/16, Tim Kilburn > wrote:

Ramy,

Sorry I've been slow with responses.  Very busy at work and doing
renovations at home so I'm not able to check eMails as often as I'd like.
Yes, please keep me in the loop and I'll help as much as possible.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 03:40, Ramy Moustafa 
>
wrote:

What can I say?
really, don't know,
I called SImon On Facetime, and he tried to do as much as he can do,
I think we found the solution, but let's see.
BUt thanks so much my friend.
and
I'm waiting the result.


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa 

> wrote:

Hi Simon:
Thanks so much for your reply,
inside the internet recovery, the disk utility, I can see only the
apple disk image, but Voice over told me that this is 2 or 3, but
the number 1 in the table is not pronounced, and Voice over can not
select it even with no name, it says space, and I can not eraise,
particion or anything, because I can not select it, and all icons are dimmbed.
so, how can I fix this/
Thanks


On 9/29/16, Simon Fogarty > 
wrote:

HI Ramy,

If your asking if you can open the mac mini yourself then yes it
should open very easily

However removing and replacing the drive is not an easy task I’ve
never myself been able to do it successfully but that was partly
due to not knowing the correct procedure to remove things in the 

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Simon Fogarty]

Oh Ray, 

I see now, you have Bare feet, meaning your not wearing anything in the way of 
foot ware,

I thought that you actually had feet of a bear, you know, as in hairy with 
really sharp claws.

 Oh well,

 You couldn't go bare foot around my city,
You'd end up bleeding to death from walking in broken glass.
Drunken students who'd have ever been one.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 1:35 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
> blind built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails 
>> before responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was 
>> forcing me to upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even 
>> if I desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I 
>> don't agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the 
>> reference here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan 
>> of such an approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better.
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no 
>> doubt of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too 
>> last. It defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be 
>> upgraded to match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, 
>> without buying a new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He 

Re: Changed VO behaviour under Sierra with ReadKit

[gs]

This is not good news. I wonder why Readability is shutting down today? Well, 
looks like we'll have to see if Readkit releases an update.


On Sep 30, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:

No, in the end I resorted to sighted assistance, and it renders differently for 
everyone under Sierra, with no way to change it back. It makes using it far 
less efficient. I also note that Readability is shutting down which Readkit 
uses extensively, so unless the developer comes out with a new version, it 
might be time to go back to Vienna RSS or investigate other options.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org 
> On 29/09/2016, at 11:10 AM, gs  > wrote:
> 
> I was optimistic that I would get this solved. However, it is not happening 
> as of now. Has anyone else come up with a solution?
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Jonathan Mosen  > wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, the RSS reader ReadKit is one of my favourite MacOS apps.
> Since upgrading to Sierra, VO has changed the way it speaks in the list of 
> articles. Previously, I would hear the headline, a preview of the article, 
> and then the source, which for me is optimal. Now though, VO is speaking the 
> source of the article first, which is more verbiage to have to listen to 
> before getting to the headline.
> Have had a pretty good play with both ReadKit and VO settings but can't find 
> a way to change it back.
> Has anyone else seen this and found a way around it?
> Thanks,
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org 
> 
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Re: Login screen

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I've seen it happen before where it appears that the Guest is enabled in System 
Preferences, but does not show up in the Login Screen.  To fix this, go into 
System Prefs, Users & Groups then click the lock to unlock the Users & Groups 
pane.  Navigate to the Guest user in the Users, Groups and Login Options list, 
then navigate to the checkbox.  Whether it is checked or not, VO-space on the 
checkbox, then close System Prefs.  If you go back into System Prefs again, it 
should now be checked and should behave properly.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 11:43, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

Is “allow guest to log in to this computer” checked?
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
> 
> Hi. Can someone tell me where the guest login option has gone as I’m not 
> seeing it on the latest Sierra update. My other question is related to the 
> keyboard! I can’t find the hash key and it’s not under any of the top row of 
> numbers or symbols. Login Screen 
> 
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Re: Changed VO behaviour under Sierra with ReadKit

[Jonathan Mosen]

No, in the end I resorted to sighted assistance, and it renders differently for 
everyone under Sierra, with no way to change it back. It makes using it far 
less efficient. I also note that Readability is shutting down which Readkit 
uses extensively, so unless the developer comes out with a new version, it 
might be time to go back to Vienna RSS or investigate other options.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

> On 29/09/2016, at 11:10 AM, gs  wrote:
> 
> I was optimistic that I would get this solved. However, it is not happening 
> as of now. Has anyone else come up with a solution?
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 3:46 PM, Jonathan Mosen  > wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, the RSS reader ReadKit is one of my favourite MacOS apps.
> Since upgrading to Sierra, VO has changed the way it speaks in the list of 
> articles. Previously, I would hear the headline, a preview of the article, 
> and then the source, which for me is optimal. Now though, VO is speaking the 
> source of the article first, which is more verbiage to have to listen to 
> before getting to the headline.
> Have had a pretty good play with both ReadKit and VO settings but can't find 
> a way to change it back.
> Has anyone else seen this and found a way around it?
> Thanks,
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[E.T.]

   I look forward to the day I can turn Windows off for good. Been 
using it too many years to make a clean break but its coming. (smiles) 
Then I may consider a second Mac as a backup.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/30/2016 11:13 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Guys, very kind words, thank you very much, this is why she will be receiving 
one, fed up of buying Windows computers every few years all because of its own 
fair share of problems too many to mention here plus she loves Apple devices in 
general so makes sense to complete the line-up, she is a very lucky lady 
indeed, known her eleven years this coming Tuesday, nough said before it turns 
into a general chat discussion.

On 30 Sep 2016, at 19:10, Hannah  wrote:

HI Simon .

thankyou .

Well i hate this windows laptop .

just fed up of buying windows computers with bloat ware on them .

Do you get any issues with the mack at times?

On 30/09/2016 07:59, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Hannah


You’re a lucky lady,

I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO
I think you'll be even better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor will 
add to the performance also.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Hannah
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .



On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come with 
the latest MacOS pre-installed.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never had 
trouble updating from one macOS to the other.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:

I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, it 
was only 500 which is too small.

Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this weekend. 
Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update to 
Sierra at a moment’s notice.



On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:

Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO performance, 
as well as those busy this busy that.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Hello everyone.

So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's first mac 
which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver would be like at 
startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard disk storage? On mine, 
it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always been like that. However once 
disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not concerned, more curious 
really.




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Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[E.T.]

   Its ok. When you stated the year I just took it that it was second hand.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/30/2016 10:36 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Sorry E.T. for any confusion caused. It is definitely a new machine as when I 
looked in the refurbished macs section, I was told that “no products were 
available” or similar wording.

On 30 Sep 2016, at 14:53, E.T.  wrote:

Chris H,
  I had thought you were getting a used unit. In such a case, if I bought used, 
I would do a clean install just to be safe. But new I would not.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:21 PM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

WHat do you mean? And also, I purchased my own mac in 2012.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 22:17, E.T.  wrote:

 Ahh new machine, then yes you have it made.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 12:26 PM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Oh I see. Didn’t kno. When I bought this late 2011 Macbook Pro, 13 inches, new, 
from UK retailer Argos, it came with Lion. So this is my first purchase from 
Apple directly. The mac that is.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:25, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

hi,

Then if it's brand new, it will come with the newest MacOS.  It may be a 
decimal or so behind, but still in Sierra.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 13:18, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

Hi

Yes it is a new one, Apple Store did not have any refurbished ones.



On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:17, Hannah  wrote:

HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .



On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come with 
the latest MacOS pre-installed.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never had 
trouble updating from one macOS to the other.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:

I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, it 
was only 500 which is too small.

Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this weekend. 
Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update to 
Sierra at a moment’s notice.



On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:

Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO performance, 
as well as those busy this busy that.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Hello everyone.

So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's first mac 
which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver would be like at 
startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard disk storage? On mine, 
it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always been like that. However once 
disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not concerned, more curious 
really.




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Your 

Xcode 8 Errors

[Jeff Berwick]

Hi all,

Recently I developed an IOS app using Cordova.  I did this to minimize the time 
I spent using Xcode.  I submitted to the App Store and have been happily making 
enhancements as I go along.  

Well, I’ve upgraded to Xcode 8 now and it is kicking my butt.  

I now have the following two errors:

Code signing is required for product type 'Application' in SDK 'iOS 10.0', Error
Signing for "Game7Analytics" requires a development team. Select a development 
team in the project , Error

Any thoughts?

How can I get to the project editor?  

I seem to sometimes find my way to the right area—at least I think I’m in the 
right area—but I can’t recreate my steps…I’m interacting and clicking all over 
the place and haven’t got a clue what to do.

I need to upload a new fix, so I need some help.

Thx,
Jeff


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Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[christopher hallsworth]

Guys, very kind words, thank you very much, this is why she will be receiving 
one, fed up of buying Windows computers every few years all because of its own 
fair share of problems too many to mention here plus she loves Apple devices in 
general so makes sense to complete the line-up, she is a very lucky lady 
indeed, known her eleven years this coming Tuesday, nough said before it turns 
into a general chat discussion.
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 19:10, Hannah  wrote:
> 
> HI Simon .
> 
> thankyou .
> 
> Well i hate this windows laptop .
> 
> just fed up of buying windows computers with bloat ware on them .
> 
> Do you get any issues with the mack at times?
> 
> On 30/09/2016 07:59, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>> Hannah
>> 
>> 
>> You’re a lucky lady,
>> 
>> I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO
>> I think you'll be even better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor 
>> will add to the performance also.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hannah
>> Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance
>> 
>> HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come 
>>> with the latest MacOS pre-installed.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never 
>>> had trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
 On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, 
 it was only 500 which is too small.
 
 Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
 weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
> Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 
> 2015 Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with 
> Yosemite preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So 
> will update to Sierra at a moment’s notice.
> 
> 
>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
>> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>>> Hello everyone.
>>> 
>>> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
>>> first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver 
>>> would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard 
>>> disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always 
>>> been like that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as 
>>> expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: Application for making ringtones for iphone & android phones using El Capitan?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi,
Does it work on El Capitan or just ios?
Thanks
Chuck

On Sep 27, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Jessica Moss wrote:

> Do you get to choose the point where you want to create your ringtone, or 
> does it just automaticly start at the beginning of the track?  I have this 
> app called ringtones+, I think it’s called, that has over 500 prerecorded 
> ones, but you can create your own as well, but it always seems to start at 
> the beginning of the file, which I really don’t like, unless there’s a way to 
> change that, that’s not accessible.
>> On Sep 26, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Bill Gallik  wrote:
>> 
>> I use an iOS app named ring maker Pro from the Apple App Store. You execute 
>> this app on the iPhone or iPad and then send it to your Mac as an email or 
>> text message attachment. You then open it on the Mac (or PC) and iTunes will 
>> load it into your iTunes folders where it will then be available to download 
>> when you do a sink from your Mac (or PC). When you get this app, it will be 
>> named rmaker pro rather than ringmaker pro.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Sent from Bill's iPhone 6 (iOS 9.3.5)
>> 
>> On Sep 26, 2016, at 2:17 PM, CHUCK REICHEL  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi List,
>>> subject field says it all!
>>> I need an Application for making ringtones for iphone & android phones 
>>> using El Capitan?
>>> I have a new studio "ringtone" project that needs to be able to play on 
>>> iphone & android type phones?
>>> I  understand that for iphone you change the .m4a to "m4r, is that all you 
>>> half to do?
>>> 
>>> as for the android type phones I believe they use mp3 ring tones or .oog 
>>> files.
>>> I know the ringtones must be shorter than 40 seconds.
>>> I'm using Avid's Pro tools 12.5 so editing is not the issue creating the 
>>> proper format for any phone is the goal! :)
>>> not sure what to get?
>>> any apps that work on el capitan out there?
>>> Thanks
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> CHUCK REICHEL
>>> soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com
>>> www.SoundPictureRecording.com
>>> 954-742-0019
>>> GUFFAWING :)
>>> In GOD I Trust
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
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> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> 

Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[Hannah]

HI Simon .

thankyou .

Well i hate this windows laptop .

just fed up of buying windows computers with bloat ware on them .

Do you get any issues with the mack at times?

On 30/09/2016 07:59, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Hannah


You’re a lucky lady,

 I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO
I think you'll be even better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor will 
add to the performance also.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Hannah
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .



On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come with 
the latest MacOS pre-installed.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never had 
trouble updating from one macOS to the other.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:

 I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, it 
was only 500 which is too small.

 Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this weekend. 
Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update to 
Sierra at a moment’s notice.



On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:

Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO performance, 
as well as those busy this busy that.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Hello everyone.

So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's first mac 
which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver would be like at 
startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard disk storage? On mine, 
it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always been like that. However once 
disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not concerned, more curious 
really.




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Your Mac 

Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[christopher hallsworth]

THat was my thinking as well. MBA is ok, but a little slow to my liking. I 
would always go for an MBP. Think of MBA as Apple’s answer to the days of the 
netbook, while MBP is Apple’s answer to a powerhouse of a Windows laptop.
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 07:59, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hannah
> 
> 
> You’re a lucky lady,
> 
> I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO 
> I think you'll be even better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor 
> will add to the performance also.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hannah
> Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance
> 
> HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .
> 
> 
> 
> On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come 
>> with the latest MacOS pre-installed.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never 
>> had trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
>>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, 
>>> it was only 500 which is too small.
>>> 
>>> Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
>>> weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
 Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
 Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
 preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update 
 to Sierra at a moment’s notice.
 
 
> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>> Hello everyone.
>> 
>> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
>> first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver 
>> would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard 
>> disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always 
>> been like that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as 
>> expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
>> 
>> 
> 
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> Visionaries list.
> 
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Re: Login screen

[christopher hallsworth]

Is “allow guest to log in to this computer” checked?
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
> 
> Hi. Can someone tell me where the guest login option has gone as I’m not 
> seeing it on the latest Sierra update. My other question is related to the 
> keyboard! I can’t find the hash key and it’s not under any of the top row of 
> numbers or symbols. Login Screen 
> 
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Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[christopher hallsworth]

Sorry E.T. for any confusion caused. It is definitely a new machine as when I 
looked in the refurbished macs section, I was told that “no products were 
available” or similar wording.
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 14:53, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Chris H,
>   I had thought you were getting a used unit. In such a case, if I bought 
> used, I would do a clean install just to be safe. But new I would not.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 9/29/2016 11:21 PM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>> WHat do you mean? And also, I purchased my own mac in 2012.
>>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 22:17, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Ahh new machine, then yes you have it made.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 9/29/2016 12:26 PM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
 Oh I see. Didn’t kno. When I bought this late 2011 Macbook Pro, 13 inches, 
 new, from UK retailer Argos, it came with Lion. So this is my first 
 purchase from Apple directly. The mac that is.
> On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:25, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> hi,
> 
> Then if it's brand new, it will come with the newest MacOS.  It may be a 
> decimal or so behind, but still in Sierra.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 29, 2016, at 13:18, christopher hallsworth 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Yes it is a new one, Apple Store did not have any refurbished ones.
> 
> 
>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:17, Hannah  wrote:
>> 
>> HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will 
>>> come with the latest MacOS pre-installed.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as 
>>> never had trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
 On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I 
 looked, it was only 500 which is too small.
 
 Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
 weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
> Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 
> 2015 Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with 
> Yosemite preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. 
> So will update to Sierra at a moment’s notice.
> 
> 
>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
>> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>>> Hello everyone.
>>> 
>>> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member 
>>> Hannah's first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering 
>>> what VoiceOver would be like at startup compared to how it would be 
>>> on a mac with hard disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under 
>>> Sierra, but it’s always been like that. However once disk activity 
>>> stops VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not concerned, more curious 
>>> really.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the 
>> list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> 

Re: Alex on my iPhone six.

[christopher hallsworth]

It doesn’t, but what you select in “voice”, previously “default dialect”, will 
be the voice used unless you change it in the language rotor.
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 15:41, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> How can I make sure Alex is my default voice on my phone?
> I’ve selected it but it doesn’t say default.
> 
> Peace,
> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>   
> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
> 
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Re: Alex on my iPhone six.

[Stacey Robinson]

It doesn’t say that Alex is my default, but he is the first voice there.

Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 10:56 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> Ok, stacy, do the following.
> 
> One go to settings.
> 
> 2 then go to general settings.
> 
> 3. Now go to accessibility settings.
> 
> 4. Now go to voiceover settings.
> 
> 5. Now go to Speech.
> 
> 6. Go to where you see alex and double tap with one fingre.
> 
> 7. flick over to where you hear alex and double tap with one finger.
> 
> 8. now flick over to where it says alex using 869 mega bites and double tap 
> with one finger to actavate alex.
> 
> 
> Let us know if this helps.
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/30/2016 9:41 AM, Stacey Robinson wrote:
>> Hello.
>> How can I make sure Alex is my default voice on my phone?
>> I’ve selected it but it doesn’t say default.
>> 
>> Peace,   
>> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>>  
>> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
>> 
> 
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Re: Alex on my iPhone six.

[Singing Sparrow]

Ok, stacy, do the following.

One go to settings.

2 then go to general settings.

3. Now go to accessibility settings.

4. Now go to voiceover settings.

5. Now go to Speech.

6. Go to where you see alex and double tap with one fingre.

7. flick over to where you hear alex and double tap with one finger.

8. now flick over to where it says alex using 869 mega bites and double 
tap with one finger to actavate alex.



Let us know if this helps.


Ron




On 9/30/2016 9:41 AM, Stacey Robinson wrote:

Hello.
How can I make sure Alex is my default voice on my phone?
I’ve selected it but it doesn’t say default.

Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net



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Re: Dash vs Minus

[E.T.]

   This I want to find out as well. I may be too picky but I think its 
worth the effort to find out.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/30/2016 4:51 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:

I'm sure there is a code for -. I wonder what would happen if you type it in 
Nemeth math. Or perhaps we can find the unicode code online? What does 
ww.demos.com calculator say and proeuce?

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn


On Sep 30, 2016, at 5:01 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:

The dash and the minus are two names for the same symbol. It is the same as 
number sign, pound, and hash for the specific symbol..

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone


On 30/09/2016, at 17:51, E.T.  wrote:

 That should work but that would be global wouldn't it? Normally pne would not 
notice a difference in print but using Voiceover, when numbers are involved, 
dash would not do. And when not using numbers, minus would not be good.

 So I am curious if there is an actual difference in typing the two characters? 
Thanks much.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
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On 9/29/2016 9:44 PM, michael babcock wrote:
go to the VO utility Select “Speech”, then “Pronunciation”.
Click add, and put a “-“ in place for the “text” and “minus” in place for the 
Substitution
note, i had to press “vo+Space” on the “Substitution” color in the table then 
type the word “minus” using voiceover 7 in OS X 10.12.
hope that helps

On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:34 PM, E.T.  wrote:

Can one type a minus character so that Voiceover speaks 'minus' and not 'dash'?

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Re: Dash vs Minus

[E.T.]

   Thanks, that was easy. Now though comes attempts to find a balance 
between some punctuation or most punctuation. Set to some, VO will not 
speak the minus. Set to most, it will but also will read hyphen in other 
areas. Is it possible to do finer tweaking of this?


   And back in the pronunciation section, its either All apps or one. 
Can you select more than one app? Or add separate entries and pick a 
different app for each?


   This is going to be a fun exercise for me.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 9:56 PM, michael babcock wrote:

I don’t think there is a way to type it differently, but maybe :) always stand 
to be corrected.
you can set in the drop down of the third column  of that table an app if you 
want VO to handle that Pronunciation globally or within one app.


On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:51 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  That should work but that would be global wouldn't it? Normally pne would not 
notice a difference in print but using Voiceover, when numbers are involved, 
dash would not do. And when not using numbers, minus would not be good.

  So I am curious if there is an actual difference in typing the two 
characters? Thanks much.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 9:44 PM, michael babcock wrote:

go to the VO utility Select “Speech”, then “Pronunciation”.
Click add, and put a “-“ in place for the “text” and “minus” in place for the 
Substitution
note, i had to press “vo+Space” on the “Substitution” color in the table then 
type the word “minus” using voiceover 7 in OS X 10.12.
hope that helps

On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:34 PM, E.T.  wrote:

 Can one type a minus character so that Voiceover speaks 'minus' and not 'dash'?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
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Alex on my iPhone six.

[Stacey Robinson]

Hello.
How can I make sure Alex is my default voice on my phone?
I’ve selected it but it doesn’t say default.

Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

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Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[E.T.]

Chris H,
   I had thought you were getting a used unit. In such a case, if I 
bought used, I would do a clean install just to be safe. But new I would 
not.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
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On 9/29/2016 11:21 PM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

WHat do you mean? And also, I purchased my own mac in 2012.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 22:17, E.T.  wrote:

  Ahh new machine, then yes you have it made.

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On 9/29/2016 12:26 PM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Oh I see. Didn’t kno. When I bought this late 2011 Macbook Pro, 13 inches, new, 
from UK retailer Argos, it came with Lion. So this is my first purchase from 
Apple directly. The mac that is.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:25, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

hi,

Then if it's brand new, it will come with the newest MacOS.  It may be a 
decimal or so behind, but still in Sierra.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 13:18, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

Hi

Yes it is a new one, Apple Store did not have any refurbished ones.



On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:17, Hannah  wrote:

HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .



On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come with 
the latest MacOS pre-installed.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never had 
trouble updating from one macOS to the other.

On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:

I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, it 
was only 500 which is too small.

Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this weekend. 
Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
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ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update to 
Sierra at a moment’s notice.



On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:

Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO performance, 
as well as those busy this busy that.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
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On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:

Hello everyone.

So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's first mac 
which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver would be like at 
startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard disk storage? On mine, 
it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always been like that. However once 
disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not concerned, more curious 
really.




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Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Barefoot is not really practical up here in the Great White North.  40 or 50 
below does not load well on bare feet :).

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 06:34, Ray Foret jr  wrote:

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>> approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
>> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
>> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
>> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
>> new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
>> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
>> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
>> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
>> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
>> upgrade to Sierra, but 

Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Target Disk mode will only work with USB, Firewire or Thunderbolt, no ethernet, 
sorry.  Yes, Terminal would be another good option, although, not near as 
friendly to the inexperienced.  After reading your posts with respect to the 
USB startup stick initially seeing the drive, that makes my suggestion of the 
drive not being seated properly as unlikely.

Wish I was closer.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 01:19, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi Ramy,

Ok, glad the install went ok to the USB,

Yes sorry it is going to be slow but it is only a work around until we get 
things up and running correctly on the SSD.

Tim,

Do you know if target disk mode will work via an Ethernet network cable?

Ramy,

Do you by anychance have a thunderbolt to thunderbolt cable?

Or can you get hold of one for a couple of days?

Tim your  thoughts on my thinking,

If Ramy starts up his mac mini using the USB flash drive which is working,
But into target disk mode,
Should he be able to see the SSD if the USB Flash drive is the primary os drive 
in the machine?

Just wondering if target disk mode worked he could partition the ssd via that 
means?

I'm starting to think that the SSD might be needing to be taken out again and 
wiped then put back in and setup from scratch.

Ramy I'll try getting hold of one of our work mac techs and see if they can 
give me a command line command for partitioning the SSD 


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 9:31 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hello Simon and TIm:
after doing what Simon told me, my mac opened with Mountain lion installed on 
my 16 GB, it's so slow but I can get the disk utility.
the Surprise  is that, the disk utility can not see the SSD HD at all, don't 
know why, but it can not see it at all.
any ideas?
it can  see only the Kingstone USB, any ideas?


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa > wrote:
> Thanks so much tim, and I know that you are a very great helper.
> 
> On 9/29/16, Tim Kilburn > wrote:
>> Ramy,
>> 
>> Sorry I've been slow with responses.  Very busy at work and doing 
>> renovations at home so I'm not able to check eMails as often as I'd like.
>> Yes, please keep me in the loop and I'll help as much as possible.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 03:40, Ramy Moustafa 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> What can I say?
>> really, don't know,
>> I called SImon On Facetime, and he tried to do as much as he can do, 
>> I think we found the solution, but let's see.
>> BUt thanks so much my friend.
>> and
>> I'm waiting the result.
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa > >> wrote:
>>> Hi Simon:
>>> Thanks so much for your reply,
>>> inside the internet recovery, the disk utility, I can see only the 
>>> apple disk image, but Voice over told me that this is 2 or 3, but 
>>> the number 1 in the table is not pronounced, and Voice over can not 
>>> select it even with no name, it says space, and I can not eraise, 
>>> particion or anything, because I can not select it, and all icons are 
>>> dimmbed.
>>> so, how can I fix this/
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9/29/16, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
 HI Ramy,
 
 If your asking if you can open the mac mini yourself then yes it 
 should open very easily
 
 However removing and replacing the drive is not an easy task I’ve 
 never myself been able to do it successfully but that was partly 
 due to not knowing the correct procedure to remove things in the mini case.
 
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
 Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016 7:58 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it
 
 Hello Tim and all:
 If the technician cannot replace the SSD quiet  will mac mini  
 willl open and try to install the system on it or it will refuse 
 opening? Thank you
 
 Ramy moustafa saber
 licturer at:
 faculty of musical education
 music arranger and sound engineer
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:26 AM, Ramy Moustafa 
 

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Ray Foret jr]

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>> approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
>> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
>> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
>> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
>> new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
>> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
>> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
>> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
>> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
>> upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both light-heartedly laughed, he has 
>> only been half as well screwed as I myself have.
>> 
>> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues 
>> to revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one 

Login screen

[Saqib Hussain]

Hi. Can someone tell me where the guest login option has gone as I’m not seeing 
it on the latest Sierra update. My other question is related to the keyboard! I 
can’t find the hash key and it’s not under any of the top row of numbers or 
symbols. Login Screen   

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Re: Dash vs Minus

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

I'm sure there is a code for -. I wonder what would happen if you type it in 
Nemeth math. Or perhaps we can find the unicode code online? What does 
ww.demos.com calculator say and proeuce?

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn 

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 5:01 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> The dash and the minus are two names for the same symbol. It is the same as 
> number sign, pound, and hash for the specific symbol..
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 30/09/2016, at 17:51, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  That should work but that would be global wouldn't it? Normally pne would 
>> not notice a difference in print but using Voiceover, when numbers are 
>> involved, dash would not do. And when not using numbers, minus would not be 
>> good.
>> 
>>  So I am curious if there is an actual difference in typing the two 
>> characters? Thanks much.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 9/29/2016 9:44 PM, michael babcock wrote:
>>> go to the VO utility Select “Speech”, then “Pronunciation”.
>>> Click add, and put a “-“ in place for the “text” and “minus” in place for 
>>> the Substitution
>>> note, i had to press “vo+Space” on the “Substitution” color in the table 
>>> then type the word “minus” using voiceover 7 in OS X 10.12.
>>> hope that helps
 On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:34 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Can one type a minus character so that Voiceover speaks 'minus' and not 
 'dash'?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 --
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 Visionaries list.
 
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 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
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>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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> --- 
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> Visit this group at 

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Martin Brown]

Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good robust 
device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to use this 
little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues to play 
ball.

At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.

By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
shoes at this end if it would help.
All the best.
Martin   
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.

I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
will not take it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
> approach.
> 
> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
> 
> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
> and myself.
> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
> 
> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
> 
> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
> new machine.
> 
>  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
> upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both light-heartedly laughed, he has 
> only been half as well screwed as I myself have.
> 
> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues 
> to revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over 
> another cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with 
> great built-in accessibility. The weakness in their model from a 
> consumer's perspective is that they provide both the hardware and the 
> software. Although this has many benefits, it is not an ideal 
> situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is not financially to their 
> advantage to support hardware beyond a short time frame. Microsoft 
> will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also got into 
> the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I 
> purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to 
> encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their 
> well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht 

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Martin Brown]

With all due respect David, you are a good example of those who do not read 
what is written. My 2009 machine is the Mac Mini in question. So, that equals 7 
years old.

My five-year-old machine is a custom built Windows device. So, it was acquired 
in 2012.

I do use both operating systems. Therefore, despite the advice from another 
contributor I have every right to be part of this community. My posts are not 
intended to be taken as a personal attack on any member of the list. There are 
those, however, who seem to take any negativity directed towards Apple and its 
products as an attack on them personally. Ah well, still good to be alive 
despite all that.
Have a good day from a very sunny UK.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:53 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

2009 machine in 2016 is a 7 year old machine, not a 5 year old machine.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 30/09/2016, at 02:39, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
> approach.
> 
> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
> 
> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
> and myself.
> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
> 
> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
> 
> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
> new machine.
> 
>  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
> upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both light-heartedly laughed, he has 
> only been half as well screwed as I myself have.
> 
> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues 
> to revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over 
> another cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with 
> great built-in accessibility. The weakness in their model from a 
> consumer's perspective is that they provide both the hardware and the 
> software. Although this has many benefits, it is not an ideal 
> situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is not financially to their 
> advantage to support hardware beyond a short time frame. Microsoft 
> will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also got into 
> the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I 
> purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to 
> encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their 
> well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their 
> equally well-heeled neighbours. I have a rule that I always follow 
> when assimilating any information coming from a source that has a financial 
> interest in that information. Don't believe everything they tell you.
> 

Re: Dash vs Minus

[David Chittenden]

The dash and the minus are two names for the same symbol. It is the same as 
number sign, pound, and hash for the specific symbol..

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 30/09/2016, at 17:51, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   That should work but that would be global wouldn't it? Normally pne would 
> not notice a difference in print but using Voiceover, when numbers are 
> involved, dash would not do. And when not using numbers, minus would not be 
> good.
> 
>   So I am curious if there is an actual difference in typing the two 
> characters? Thanks much.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 9/29/2016 9:44 PM, michael babcock wrote:
>> go to the VO utility Select “Speech”, then “Pronunciation”.
>> Click add, and put a “-“ in place for the “text” and “minus” in place for 
>> the Substitution
>> note, i had to press “vo+Space” on the “Substitution” color in the table 
>> then type the word “minus” using voiceover 7 in OS X 10.12.
>> hope that helps
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:34 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Can one type a minus character so that Voiceover speaks 'minus' and not 
>>> 'dash'?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>> 
> 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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RE: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[Simon Fogarty]

Hannah,

 Don't tell anyone but Chris was getting it for you as a surprise present!

 So don't tell him you know.!

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Hannah
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 6:32 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

oh wow i am getting a mack book pro . surely it wil runn simular then .

On 29/09/2016 21:54, Anders Holmberg wrote:
> Hi!
> Voiceover is never busy on my macbook air.
> /A
>> 29 sep. 2016 kl. 20:11 skrev E.T. :
>>
>>   Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
>> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>>> Hello everyone.
>>>
>>> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's first 
>>> mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver would be 
>>> like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard disk 
>>> storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always been like 
>>> that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not 
>>> concerned, more curious really.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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RE: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Ramy,

If you do go back to the technition   get him to partition the drive as one Mac 
OSX extended journaled patition and have him make sure that GUID partition is 
selected as we did last night 

Hopefully then when you go to reinstall everything will just work.

 Good luck. 
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 1:12 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hello tim:
I tried setting the Pram, but also with no luck,

can not see the drive at all.
Thanks so much for your help.
but I think that I must consult the technition that puts the SSD into the Mac 
mini.
\and if you have any oterh ideas please share.
THanks


On 9/30/16, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It seems like it may not be installed properly.  Usually, in Disk 
> Utility, you'll still see devices that are not necessarily usable with the 
> Mac.  You
> just won't have the options available to format or partition.   It's
> possible that the cable is not seated properly, thus not getting power 
> or it being seen.  Try one other thing before going to the effort of 
> taking it apart again.  Try resetting the PRAM.  To do this, you need 
> to press the cmd, Option, r and p keys as the Mini's startup chime is 
> sounding.  So, to make this as easy as possible, I usually place my 
> left thumb across the left cmd and option keys then use my left index 
> finger and right pinky to hold down the r and p keys.  Practice it a 
> few times before going for it.  So, what you'd do is turn the Mini 
> off, wait about 10 to 20 seconds, then press the power button to turn 
> it on.  Quickly hold down this key combination through the startup 
> chime, and keep it held down through two more chimes, then release the 
> keys.  Try to start it up again with Simon's instructions and see if the SSD 
> shows up in Disk Utility.
>
> If you still have no luck, you'll need to see if the drive had its 
> cable seated well.  If it still doesn't work, then it is possible, 
> although not normal, that this SSD is not visible to your model of Mac.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Sep 29, 2016, at 14:30, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
>
> Hello Simon and TIm:
> after doing what Simon told me, my mac opened with Mountain lion 
> installed on my 16 GB, it's so slow but I can get the disk utility.
> the Surprise  is that, the disk utility can not see the SSD HD at all, 
> don't know why, but it can not see it at all.
> any ideas?
> it can  see only the Kingstone USB, any ideas?
>
>
> On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa  > wrote:
>> Thanks so much tim, and I know that you are a very great helper.
>>
>> On 9/29/16, Tim Kilburn > wrote:
>>> Ramy,
>>>
>>> Sorry I've been slow with responses.  Very busy at work and doing 
>>> renovations at home so I'm not able to check eMails as often as I'd 
>>> like.
>>> Yes, please keep me in the loop and I'll help as much as possible.
>>>
>>> Later...
>>>
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 03:40, Ramy Moustafa 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What can I say?
>>> really, don't know,
>>> I called SImon On Facetime, and he tried to do as much as he can do, 
>>> I think we found the solution, but let's see.
>>> BUt thanks so much my friend.
>>> and
>>> I'm waiting the result.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa >> >> >>
>>> wrote:
 Hi Simon:
 Thanks so much for your reply,
 inside the internet recovery, the disk utility, I can see only the 
 apple disk image, but Voice over told me that this is 2 or 3, but 
 the number 1 in the table is not pronounced, and Voice over can not 
 select it even with no name, it says space, and I can not eraise, 
 particion or anything, because I can not select it, and all icons are 
 dimmbed.
 so, how can I fix this/
 Thanks


 On 9/29/16, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> HI Ramy,
>
> If your asking if you can open the mac mini yourself then yes it 
> should open very easily
>
> However removing and replacing the drive is not an easy task I’ve 
> never myself been able to do it successfully but that was partly 
> due to not knowing the correct procedure to remove things in the 
> mini case.
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy 
> Moustafa
> Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016 7:58 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it
>
> Hello Tim and all:
> If 

RE: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi tim,

Yes interesting,

So the USB Flash drive has booted and Ramy can’t see the SSD in Disk utils

Yet when I was speaking to him lastnight
Dduring his start of the internet recovery installation he could see the ssd in 
disk utilities but was not able to eraise or partition the drive.

 Odd very very odd.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 11:03 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hi,

It seems like it may not be installed properly.  Usually, in Disk Utility, 
you'll still see devices that are not necessarily usable with the Mac.  You 
just won't have the options available to format or partition.   It's possible 
that the cable is not seated properly, thus not getting power or it being seen. 
 Try one other thing before going to the effort of taking it apart again.  Try 
resetting the PRAM.  To do this, you need to press the cmd, Option, r and p 
keys as the Mini's startup chime is sounding.  So, to make this as easy as 
possible, I usually place my left thumb across the left cmd and option keys 
then use my left index finger and right pinky to hold down the r and p keys.  
Practice it a few times before going for it.  So, what you'd do is turn the 
Mini off, wait about 10 to 20 seconds, then press the power button to turn it 
on.  Quickly hold down this key combination through the startup chime, and keep 
it held down through two more chimes, then release the keys.  Try to start it 
up again with Simon's instructions and see if the SSD shows up in Disk Utility.

If you still have no luck, you'll need to see if the drive had its cable seated 
well.  If it still doesn't work, then it is possible, although not normal, that 
this SSD is not visible to your model of Mac.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 14:30, Ramy Moustafa 
> wrote:

Hello Simon and TIm:
after doing what Simon told me, my mac opened with Mountain lion
installed on my 16 GB, it's so slow but I can get the disk utility.
the Surprise  is that, the disk utility can not see the SSD HD at all,
don't know why, but it can not see it at all.
any ideas?
it can  see only the Kingstone USB, any ideas?


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa 
> wrote:

Thanks so much tim, and I know that you are a very great helper.

On 9/29/16, Tim Kilburn > wrote:

Ramy,

Sorry I've been slow with responses.  Very busy at work and doing
renovations at home so I'm not able to check eMails as often as I'd like.
Yes, please keep me in the loop and I'll help as much as possible.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 03:40, Ramy Moustafa 
>
wrote:

What can I say?
really, don't know,
I called SImon On Facetime, and he tried to do as much as he can do,
I think we found the solution, but let's see.
BUt thanks so much my friend.
and
I'm waiting the result.


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa 

> wrote:

Hi Simon:
Thanks so much for your reply,
inside the internet recovery, the disk utility, I can see only the
apple disk image, but Voice over told me that this is 2 or 3, but the
number 1 in the table is not pronounced, and Voice over can not select
it even with no name, it says space, and I can not eraise, particion
or anything, because I can not select it, and all icons are dimmbed.
so, how can I fix this/
Thanks


On 9/29/16, Simon Fogarty > 
wrote:

HI Ramy,

If your asking if you can open the mac mini yourself then yes it should
open
very easily

However removing and replacing the drive is not an easy task I’ve never
myself been able to do it successfully but that was partly due to not
knowing the correct procedure to remove things in the mini case.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016 7:58 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hello Tim and all:
If the technician cannot replace the SSD quiet  will mac mini  willl
open
and try to install the system on it or it will refuse opening? Thank
you

Ramy moustafa saber
licturer at:
faculty of musical education
music arranger and sound engineer
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:26 AM, Ramy Moustafa
>
 wrote:
Hello tim:
when I'm in the disk utility, here is what I have exactly.
outside the table, it says, 

RE: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Ramy,

Ok, glad the install went ok to the USB,

Yes sorry it is going to be slow but it is only a work around until we get 
things up and running correctly on the SSD.

 Tim,

Do you know if target disk mode will work via an Ethernet network cable?

Ramy,

 Do you by anychance have a thunderbolt to thunderbolt cable?

Or can you get hold of one for a couple of days?

 Tim your  thoughts on my thinking,

If Ramy starts up his mac mini using the USB flash drive which is working,
But into target disk mode,
Should he be able to see the SSD if the USB Flash drive is the primary os drive 
in the machine?

Just wondering if target disk mode worked he could partition the ssd via that 
means?

I'm starting to think that the SSD might be needing to be taken out again and 
wiped then put back in and setup from scratch.

Ramy I'll try getting hold of one of our work mac techs and see if they can 
give me a command line command for partitioning the SSD 


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 9:31 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hello Simon and TIm:
after doing what Simon told me, my mac opened with Mountain lion installed on 
my 16 GB, it's so slow but I can get the disk utility.
the Surprise  is that, the disk utility can not see the SSD HD at all, don't 
know why, but it can not see it at all.
any ideas?
it can  see only the Kingstone USB, any ideas?


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> Thanks so much tim, and I know that you are a very great helper.
>
> On 9/29/16, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> Ramy,
>>
>> Sorry I've been slow with responses.  Very busy at work and doing 
>> renovations at home so I'm not able to check eMails as often as I'd like.
>> Yes, please keep me in the loop and I'll help as much as possible.
>>
>> Later...
>>
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 03:40, Ramy Moustafa 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What can I say?
>> really, don't know,
>> I called SImon On Facetime, and he tried to do as much as he can do, 
>> I think we found the solution, but let's see.
>> BUt thanks so much my friend.
>> and
>> I'm waiting the result.
>>
>>
>> On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa > > wrote:
>>> Hi Simon:
>>> Thanks so much for your reply,
>>> inside the internet recovery, the disk utility, I can see only the 
>>> apple disk image, but Voice over told me that this is 2 or 3, but 
>>> the number 1 in the table is not pronounced, and Voice over can not 
>>> select it even with no name, it says space, and I can not eraise, 
>>> particion or anything, because I can not select it, and all icons are 
>>> dimmbed.
>>> so, how can I fix this/
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/29/16, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 HI Ramy,

 If your asking if you can open the mac mini yourself then yes it 
 should open very easily

 However removing and replacing the drive is not an easy task I’ve 
 never myself been able to do it successfully but that was partly 
 due to not knowing the correct procedure to remove things in the mini case.

 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
 Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016 7:58 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

 Hello Tim and all:
 If the technician cannot replace the SSD quiet  will mac mini  
 willl open and try to install the system on it or it will refuse 
 opening? Thank you

 Ramy moustafa saber
 licturer at:
 faculty of musical education
 music arranger and sound engineer
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:26 AM, Ramy Moustafa 
 > wrote:
 Hello tim:
 when I'm in the disk utility, here is what I have exactly.
 outside the table, it says, selected disks row 2 or 3, disk 0 selected.
 when I interact with the table, I can see the disk 0 and mac os 
 bass system, but the 1st item I can not access it, it says, space, 
 and when I close the table, I can access the  number 2 and 3 in the list.
 so,  does the 1st item in the table is my NTFS SSD? and if so, how 
 can I access it?
 the mac refuse to make me eraise or particion it.
 Thanks


 On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa
 > wrote:

 Thanks so much i have a hd without a name

 Ramy moustafa saber
 Musicc instructor at:
 faculty of musical education
 music arranger and sound engineer
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42 

RE: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[Simon Fogarty]

Hannah


You’re a lucky lady,

 I can't say I have issues with my MBA and VO 
I think you'll be even better off if it's a pro mac book as the processor will 
add to the performance also.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Hannah
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 8:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .



On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come with 
> the latest MacOS pre-installed.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
>
> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never had 
> trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
>>
>>  I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I looked, 
>> it was only 500 which is too small.
>>
>>  Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
>> weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>> On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>>> Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 2015 
>>> Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with Yosemite 
>>> preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So will update 
>>> to Sierra at a moment’s notice.
>>>
>>>
 On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:

 Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
 performance, as well as those busy this busy that.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com

 On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
> Hello everyone.
>
> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
> first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver 
> would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard 
> disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always 
> been like that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as 
> expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
>
>

 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.

 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
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 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
>>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>

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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
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RE: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Chris,

 One lucky lady if the boy friend is buying her a computer.


 Wish I had a girl like you  in my life.


 Ok so My 2013  mac book air purforms great 

However I had 8 gig ram and 512 ssd storage,

 The only time I really notice lag is if I'm using MS Office or starting some 
kind of media where things take time to start.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of christopher hallsworth
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 7:05 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

Hello everyone.

So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's first mac 
which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver would be like at 
startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard disk storage? On mine, 
it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always been like that. However once 
disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not concerned, more curious 
really.


-- 
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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RE: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

[Simon Fogarty]

HI Ramy,

 So it's almost 24hours later 

How did the installation go for you to the USB Flash drive?

Have you managed to get any further with tings?

Cheers,


Simon F


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 6:43 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Thanks so much tim, and I know that you are a very great helper.

On 9/29/16, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> Ramy,
>
> Sorry I've been slow with responses.  Very busy at work and doing 
> renovations at home so I'm not able to check eMails as often as I'd like.
> Yes, please keep me in the loop and I'll help as much as possible.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Sep 29, 2016, at 03:40, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
>
> What can I say?
> really, don't know,
> I called SImon On Facetime, and he tried to do as much as he can do, I 
> think we found the solution, but let's see.
> BUt thanks so much my friend.
> and
> I'm waiting the result.
>
>
> On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa  > wrote:
>> Hi Simon:
>> Thanks so much for your reply,
>> inside the internet recovery, the disk utility, I can see only the 
>> apple disk image, but Voice over told me that this is 2 or 3, but the 
>> number 1 in the table is not pronounced, and Voice over can not 
>> select it even with no name, it says space, and I can not eraise, 
>> particion or anything, because I can not select it, and all icons are 
>> dimmbed.
>> so, how can I fix this/
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> On 9/29/16, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> HI Ramy,
>>>
>>> If your asking if you can open the mac mini yourself then yes it 
>>> should open very easily
>>>
>>> However removing and replacing the drive is not an easy task I’ve 
>>> never myself been able to do it successfully but that was partly due 
>>> to not knowing the correct procedure to remove things in the mini case.
>>>
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
>>> Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016 7:58 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it
>>>
>>> Hello Tim and all:
>>> If the technician cannot replace the SSD quiet  will mac mini  willl 
>>> open and try to install the system on it or it will refuse opening? 
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> Ramy moustafa saber
>>> licturer at:
>>> faculty of musical education
>>> music arranger and sound engineer
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:26 AM, Ramy Moustafa 
>>> > wrote:
>>> Hello tim:
>>> when I'm in the disk utility, here is what I have exactly.
>>> outside the table, it says, selected disks row 2 or 3, disk 0 selected.
>>> when I interact with the table, I can see the disk 0 and mac os bass 
>>> system, but the 1st item I can not access it, it says, space, and 
>>> when I close the table, I can access the  number 2 and 3 in the list.
>>> so,  does the 1st item in the table is my NTFS SSD? and if so, how 
>>> can I access it?
>>> the mac refuse to make me eraise or particion it.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks so much i have a hd without a name
>>>
>>> Ramy moustafa saber
>>> Musicc instructor at:
>>> faculty of musical education
>>> music arranger and sound engineer
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42 AM, Tim Kilburn 
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> If it was installed properly, you should only see a few items in the 
>>> "Select a Disk" table.  Try formatting the first item in that list.
>>> Make
>>> sure that you format it as MacOS Extended (Journaled).  If that 
>>> doesn't appear to work, you may need to use the Partition tab 
>>> instead.  In the Partition tab, choose that you wish to create one 
>>> partition, MacOS Extended (Journaled) and that should get rid of the NTFS 
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> Later...
>>>
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 15:53, Ramy Moustafa 
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello all:
>>> Today, I did what I told you about, I put my 128 nGB ssd into my mac 
>>> mini.
>>> the technition, does not have time to install system for me, he just 
>>> blugged the mac mini to a screen, and he power the unit on, we 
>>> listened to the chime, and he told me that if the mac didn't find 
>>> the SSD or any of it's componants, we will not here  this chime.
>>> I took the unit and came to my studio, press, command option r, and 
>>> I got the place to reinstall my original OSX, I choose disk utility, 
>>> but, I can 

RE: Recommendations for noise canceling headphones

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah the Bose Quiet comfort are excellent,

 I've only had a short play with them but a friend recently purchased a pair,
 His aren't wifi but they are still bloody good headphones.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Phil Halton
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 5:34 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Recommendations for noise canceling headphones

Does anybody have any good recommendations for Reliable and effective noise 
canceling headphones? I have a couple of kids next-door who love to play 
basketball until dusk and I really need some help? Thanks.

Sent from my IPhone

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RE: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Tim,

To bring you up to speed,

I spoke with Ramy last night my time,

For some reason his ssd came up as somehow locked or protected
The only tab he had in disk utilities was the firstaid tab.

So as he had a 16GB USB flash drive
I had him format / partition this and then start the installation of Mt Lion to 
the USB Flash drive.

That was where I left him, with the OSX installing to USB

The aim here was to get the USB up and running so he could then partition the 
SSD as a new drive and then start again the installation of OSX to the SSD

Hopefully once I read through my messages Ramy will have replied to us with how 
things went for him.

Cheers,


Simon F

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Friday, 30 September 2016 2:56 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Ramy,

Sorry I've been slow with responses.  Very busy at work and doing renovations 
at home so I'm not able to check eMails as often as I'd like.  Yes, please keep 
me in the loop and I'll help as much as possible.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 29, 2016, at 03:40, Ramy Moustafa 
> wrote:

What can I say?
really, don't know,
I called SImon On Facetime, and he tried to do as much as he can do,
I think we found the solution, but let's see.
BUt thanks so much my friend.
and
I'm waiting the result.


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa 
> wrote:

Hi Simon:
Thanks so much for your reply,
inside the internet recovery, the disk utility, I can see only the
apple disk image, but Voice over told me that this is 2 or 3, but the
number 1 in the table is not pronounced, and Voice over can not select
it even with no name, it says space, and I can not eraise, particion
or anything, because I can not select it, and all icons are dimmbed.
so, how can I fix this/
Thanks


On 9/29/16, Simon Fogarty > 
wrote:

HI Ramy,

If your asking if you can open the mac mini yourself then yes it should
open
very easily

However removing and replacing the drive is not an easy task I’ve never
myself been able to do it successfully but that was partly due to not
knowing the correct procedure to remove things in the mini case.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016 7:58 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installing SSD on my mac mini, the os can not read it

Hello Tim and all:
If the technician cannot replace the SSD quiet  will mac mini  willl
open
and try to install the system on it or it will refuse opening? Thank you

Ramy moustafa saber
licturer at:
faculty of musical education
music arranger and sound engineer
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:26 AM, Ramy Moustafa
>
 wrote:
Hello tim:
when I'm in the disk utility, here is what I have exactly.
outside the table, it says, selected disks row 2 or 3, disk 0 selected.
when I interact with the table, I can see the disk 0 and mac os bass
system, but the 1st item I can not access it, it says, space, and when
I close the table, I can access the  number 2 and 3 in the list.
so,  does the 1st item in the table is my NTFS SSD? and if so, how can
I access it?
the mac refuse to make me eraise or particion it.
Thanks


On 9/29/16, Ramy Moustafa
>
 wrote:

Thanks so much i have a hd without a name

Ramy moustafa saber
Musicc instructor at:
faculty of musical education
music arranger and sound engineer
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42 AM, Tim Kilburn
> wrote:

Hi,

If it was installed properly, you should only see a few items in the
"Select a Disk" table.  Try formatting the first item in that list.  Make
sure that you format it as MacOS Extended (Journaled).  If that doesn't
appear to work, you may need to use the Partition tab instead.  In the
Partition tab, choose that you wish to create one partition, MacOS
Extended (Journaled) and that should get rid of the NTFS stuff.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 28, 2016, at 15:53, Ramy Moustafa
>
wrote:

Hello all:
Today, I did what I told you about, I put my 128 nGB ssd into my mac
mini.
the technition, does not have time to install system for me, he just
blugged the mac mini to a screen, and he power the unit on, we
listened to the chime, and he told me that if the mac didn't find the

Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[christopher hallsworth]

WHat do you mean? And also, I purchased my own mac in 2012.
> On 29 Sep 2016, at 22:17, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Ahh new machine, then yes you have it made.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 9/29/2016 12:26 PM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>> Oh I see. Didn’t kno. When I bought this late 2011 Macbook Pro, 13 inches, 
>> new, from UK retailer Argos, it came with Lion. So this is my first purchase 
>> from Apple directly. The mac that is.
>>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:25, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> hi,
>>> 
>>> Then if it's brand new, it will come with the newest MacOS.  It may be a 
>>> decimal or so behind, but still in Sierra.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 13:18, christopher hallsworth  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Yes it is a new one, Apple Store did not have any refurbished ones.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 29 Sep 2016, at 20:17, Hannah  wrote:
 
 HI tim as far as i know it's a brand new one .
 
 
 
 On 29/09/2016 20:14, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> If you get this as a refurbished from the Apple Store, then it will come 
> with the latest MacOS pre-installed.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:42, christopher hallsworth 
>  wrote:
> 
> No clean install is planned, just an update. Why is this? Asking as never 
> had trouble updating from one macOS to the other.
>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:30, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> I may see how big an SSD I could put in this one, mid 2012. Last I 
>> looked, it was only 500 which is too small.
>> 
>> Going to do a clean install? Probably best. I will be doing that this 
>> weekend. Oh joy but if its raining, will be an ideal time.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 9/29/2016 11:15 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
>>> Thank you. And I now know what mac she will be getting. It’s an early 
>>> 2015 Macbook Pro with retina, 13 inches. No doubt it will come with 
>>> Yosemite preinstalled then. Not bad, but not worht a keeper either. So 
>>> will update to Sierra at a moment’s notice.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 29 Sep 2016, at 19:11, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
 performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
> Hello everyone.
> 
> So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
> first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what 
> VoiceOver would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a 
> mac with hard disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, 
> but it’s always been like that. However once disk activity stops 
> VoiceOver behaves as expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
> 
> 
 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: Flash storage and VoiceOver performance

[christopher hallsworth]

Guys, that’s because  the Macbook AIr, Macbook and Macbook Pro uses flash-based 
(SSD) storage, except for ones that come with the superdrive integrated in 
which case hard disk storage will be used. I’m not aware of any Macbook Airs, 
Macbooks or Macbook Pros having a Fusion drive; only the Mac Mini, iMac and Mac 
Pro have these. Correct me if I’m wrong though please. Cheers!
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 06:31, Hannah  wrote:
> 
> oh wow i am getting a mack book pro . surely it wil runn simular then .
> 
> On 29/09/2016 21:54, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi!
>> Voiceover is never busy on my macbook air.
>> /A
>>> 29 sep. 2016 kl. 20:11 skrev E.T. :
>>> 
>>>  Good deal. And it will be interesting to hear your reviews of VO 
>>> performance, as well as those busy this busy that.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 9/29/2016 11:05 AM, christopher hallsworth wrote:
 Hello everyone.
 
 So I’ve done it! Purchased my girlfriend and new list member Hannah's 
 first mac which will come with flash storage. Wondering what VoiceOver 
 would be like at startup compared to how it would be on a mac with hard 
 disk storage? On mine, it’s choppy, even under Sierra, but it’s always 
 been like that. However once disk activity stops VoiceOver behaves as 
 expected. Not concerned, more curious really.
 
 
>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
> 
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