Re: [Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * When Hitler came to power, many German CPers who had wanted to fight but were vetoed by the Soviets tried to flee to the USSR but were met at the border. Staying at your post wasn't necessarily a matter of choice. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 9/6/17 3:30 PM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote: Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever criticism we have of the Communist Party of Germany and other Stalinist organizations, we must respect that many militants stayed at their posts even in the darkest days of Nazi rule and contributed to the defeat of the Nazis. Louis Proyect: What defeat are you talking about? Hitler took power in 1933 and threw all the CP'ers into concentration camps. Those who avoided this fate worked in a very weak underground. It was military force that defeated Hitler unless I don't get your point. Ken Hiebert: I was thinking of the military defeat of Germany. It is my understanding that CP militants were able to send information to the Soviet Union. This does not take away from your point that the German CP was for the most part crushed and survived only in a much weakened state. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 9/6/17 3:30 PM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote: Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever criticism we have of the Communist Party of Germany and other Stalinist organizations, we must respect that many militants stayed at their posts even in the darkest days of Nazi rule and contributed to the defeat of the Nazis. What defeat are you talking about? Hitler took power in 1933 and threw all the CP'ers into concentration camps. Those who avoided this fate worked in a very weak underground. It was military force that defeated Hitler unless I don't get your point. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * n 9/6/17 2:36 PM, Patrick Bond wrote: Fast forward a bit, though, and you will find Harro Schulze-Boysen (mygrandmother's favorite cousin) leading a Red Orchestra group of Communists who harassed the Nazi regime from the early 1930s, and fed information to Moscow (and later Washington), until they were caught and executed in 1942. There was no ideological confusion there. Louis Proyect: Yeah, well, look. The official policy of the KPD was to oppose "social fascism". This meant regarding the social democrats as bad as Hitler, even worse. I am working on an article about this right now in fact, mostly as a way of showing how stopping Hitler could not be reduced to "punching a Nazi”. Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever criticism we have of the Communist Party of Germany and other Stalinist organizations, we must respect that many militants stayed at their posts even in the darkest days of Nazi rule and contributed to the defeat of the Nazis. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 9/6/17 2:36 PM, Patrick Bond wrote: Fast forward a bit, though, and you will find Harro Schulze-Boysen (my grandmother's favorite cousin) leading a Red Orchestra group of Communists who harassed the Nazi regime from the early 1930s, and fed information to Moscow (and later Washington), until they were caught and executed in 1942. There was no ideological confusion there. Yeah, well, look. The official policy of the KPD was to oppose "social fascism". This meant regarding the social democrats as bad as Hitler, even worse. I am working on an article about this right now in fact, mostly as a way of showing how stopping Hitler could not be reduced to "punching a Nazi". _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Fast forward a bit, though, and you will find Harro Schulze-Boysen (my grandmother's favorite cousin) leading a Red Orchestra group of Communists who harassed the Nazi regime from the early 1930s, and fed information to Moscow (and later Washington), until they were caught and executed in 1942. There was no ideological confusion there. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 9/6/17 1:36 PM, Glenn Kissack wrote: "Oh yes, we admit that we're in league with the National Socialists, that we together with the National Socialists, want to destroy the existing social system . . . Bolshevism and Fascism share a common goal; the destruction of capitalism and of the Social Democratic Party. To achieve this aim we are justified in using every means." --Horst Sindermann, German CP leader, 1930 Are you sure about the date? Wikipedia has this about Sindermann: "Horst Sindermann joined the Communist Youth Federation (KJVD) in 1929 and in 1932 became a local functionary in Dresden. The group was banned by the Nazi regime and in June 1933, Sindermann was arrested and condemned to eight months of imprisonment for illegal political activities. In September 1934, he became political director of the KJVD's Dresden branch.” In 1930, Sindermann was not a CP leader. What is the source? It was his older brother Kurt Sindermann, not Horst, that I was referring to. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Sindermann In 1925 Sindermann became head of the KJVD in East Saxony. He proved himself and in the beginning of 1927 was also entrusted with the management of the RFB in East Saxony. From November 1927 to March 1929, the KPD sent him as a student to the International Lenin School in Moscow. With the necessary ideological armaments, he ran for the Saxon Landtag and became his deputy in the 4th and 5th electoral period until 1933. After his duties in East Saxony, Sindermann became head coach of the KPD in Chemnitz in 1930 and was instrumental in eliminating divergent KPO Groups. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * > "Oh yes, we admit that we're in league with the National Socialists, that we > together with the National Socialists, want to destroy the existing social > system . . . Bolshevism and Fascism share a common goal; the destruction of > capitalism and of the Social Democratic Party. To achieve this aim we are > justified in using every means." > > --Horst Sindermann, German CP leader, 1930 Are you sure about the date? Wikipedia has this about Sindermann: "Horst Sindermann joined the Communist Youth Federation (KJVD) in 1929 and in 1932 became a local functionary in Dresden. The group was banned by the Nazi regime and in June 1933, Sindermann was arrested and condemned to eight months of imprisonment for illegal political activities. In September 1934, he became political director of the KJVD's Dresden branch.” In 1930, Sindermann was not a CP leader. What is the source? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] What a German Communist said about the Nazis in 1930
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * "Oh yes, we admit that we're in league with the National Socialists, that we together with the National Socialists, want to destroy the existing social system . . . Bolshevism and Fascism share a common goal; the destruction of capitalism and of the Social Democratic Party. To achieve this aim we are justified in using every means." --Horst Sindermann, German CP leader, 1930 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
