Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Ungainly for most of us. What you said plus it needs to be wired in and 
anchored to the ground.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 5:24 PM
Cc: Kaleb Striplin ; Okiebenz via Mercedes 

Subject: Re: [MBZ] Generator

At the end of the day it would probably be a pain in the ass it drag the 
tractor out, unhook whatever is hooked up to it, hook this generator up, get it 
to the house hooked up, then have the tractor just sitting out potentially all 
day and night in the weather. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:13 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> AFAIK the biggest problem with these is regulation. You'll need to get the 
> power on the tractor set so that you're making 60hz and then the governor on 
> the tractor has to maintain that. You're going to use a lot of extra fuel at 
> light loads and put a lot of time on your tractor.
> 
> If you had a battery bank and could use this to top it up that'd be one thing 
> but for the cost...
> 
> What is the load on your heat pump? I honestly have no idea how much power 
> they pull.
> 
> Actually thinking about it you'd probably be best to buy a couple Big Buddy 
> heaters, a 1# propane can refiller and keep a couple extra 20# BBQ tanks...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 4:57:26 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Anybody ever used one of these? Would it run the heat pump and misc other 
> items?
> 
> https://www.harborfreight.com/16000-watts-max-15000-watts-rated-tracto
> r-driven-pto-generator-65309.html
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Okiebenz via Mercedes  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way 
> > thought about heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would 
> > probably be a waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold Out.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I bought one of those 2KW inverter units from Harbor Freight a few years back:  

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gasoline-generators/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html

I got it on sale for $450.  It's fairly quiet and it has a low power mode that 
is even quieter.  It has started reliably so far.  It is portable but I would 
not like to carry it far.  You need to remove a side panel (tools required) to 
check or change oil.  Some of the other maintenance is odd, like a spark plug 
buried deep inside.  Overall, it has served me well but I don't have many hours 
on it.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:59 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Curt Raymond 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

 I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in anger". It 
outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super useful for you now as it 
would easily run your blower and just sip fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at 
half load on 1 gallon of gas.
A Honda 2000w would be better but also would be 5x the cost and considering 
I've never really needed mine I can't justify it.I have considered the Harbor 
Freight copy to have at camp. When we were up there last July it was stiflingly 
hot. Dad wants to get a small air conditioner but the 3000w "Champion" 
generator we have now is quite loud.Google suggests that a 5000BTU aircon needs 
550w/hr so the small "super quiet" generator from Harbor Freight would do the 
job easily. We've got 500 or so sqft. of camp. It wouldn't make ice cubes 
inside but would certainly take the edge off.
-Curt



On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:49:02 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
it and will see what happens

I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the 
> chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys 
> might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> > efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > 
> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > 
> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
> > a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
> > use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. 
> > There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> > down and only using the aux heat.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
> > > below 20F or so.
> > > 
> > > --FT
> > > 
> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via 

Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

My last Dayton OH house had an iron stove in a corner on raised brick with
brick along both walls.  After it got going good I could damper it down and
keep the house cozy all night.  And it did get cold there. I recall a
two-week period it never got above zero f.

Maybe I should look into one of those inserts.  I have acres of trees but
mostly evergreens and sweetgum.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 2:07 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Firewood

You need a fireplace insert type wood stove with an integrated blower to
minimize sending your home's warm air up the chimney.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 2:03 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You need to burn that up.  If it's jumbled and in the rain it's 
> rotting and growing bugs.  Properly stored neatly stacked on its 
> sides, wood grain straws _not_ in the mud, with a rain hat.  It's all 
> about keeping dry.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[OK Don via Mercedes]

WHen I spoke to our geothermal guy about running from a generator he said
we'd need a "soft start" kit for the heat pump to limit the massive startup
current draw.
Probably something similar to this:
https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-364-3-ton-single-phase-soft-starter-for-air-conditioners?variant=30176048267

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:08 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The brushless generator in my Generac produces noisy power, which I think
> is
> typical of brushless designs. But nothing in my house seems to care.
>
> My heat pumps are not on the transfer switch and I don't know if the 15KW
> generator could handle the inrush current.  I haven't tried moving a heat
> pump to generator backup.  I suspect an inverter mini-split would be OK on
> generator backup (Dan?).
>
> Most of my cheap UPS get very unhappy if the AC frequency is even a little
> above 63HZ but APC Smart UPS seem to work fine on generator power. I just
> ordered another Smart UPS for my entertainment system.  The old UPS was
> going on and off constantly when the power went out Saturday.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Jim Cathey via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 9:52 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Jim Cathey 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc
>
> That whole 'clean' power thing is a racket, if you ask me.  Line power is
> notoriously _not_ clean, at least occasionally.  Especially in developing
> areas.  Most stuff that runs on electronics ends up making a DC supply out
> of it anyway, from which it either runs directly, or powers a
> down-converter.
> Motors and lights, and heaters, can run on the worst rat-squeezings.
> Under-
> voltage and under-frequence (or worse: both) will kill induction motors,
> but
> the death is thermal so it takes awhile.  You can usually tell something is
> wrong, if you're listening.
>
> The fussiest loads we have are the UPS's, who only object to the input
> frequency and decide to stop charging and start draining their batteries.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The brushless generator in my Generac produces noisy power, which I think is
typical of brushless designs. But nothing in my house seems to care.  

My heat pumps are not on the transfer switch and I don't know if the 15KW
generator could handle the inrush current.  I haven't tried moving a heat
pump to generator backup.  I suspect an inverter mini-split would be OK on
generator backup (Dan?).  

Most of my cheap UPS get very unhappy if the AC frequency is even a little
above 63HZ but APC Smart UPS seem to work fine on generator power. I just
ordered another Smart UPS for my entertainment system.  The old UPS was
going on and off constantly when the power went out Saturday.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Jim Cathey via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 9:52 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Jim Cathey 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

That whole 'clean' power thing is a racket, if you ask me.  Line power is
notoriously _not_ clean, at least occasionally.  Especially in developing
areas.  Most stuff that runs on electronics ends up making a DC supply out
of it anyway, from which it either runs directly, or powers a
down-converter.
Motors and lights, and heaters, can run on the worst rat-squeezings.  Under-
voltage and under-frequence (or worse: both) will kill induction motors, but
the death is thermal so it takes awhile.  You can usually tell something is
wrong, if you're listening.

The fussiest loads we have are the UPS's, who only object to the input
frequency and decide to stop charging and start draining their batteries.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I'm planning basically what you see there but 12 feet wide and 8 feet deep. 8 
> feet tall at the front.

The Wood Pavilion is very nice, and I only bought plywood, nails, roofing, and 
lights.  The poles were cut on-site,
the fill dirt, rocks, and concrete curbing sections (steps and benches) were 
free from various sources.  I estimate
it holds about 10 cords, if wood is stacked up to the peak.  It was that full, 
this year.

http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/Mog/mogdirt/finished2.jpg 


The Unimog (peeking out) was used to crane the heavy things into place, and to 
haul/dump the dirt and rocks.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> My understanding is that one needs a whopper of a generator to power up 
> electric heat. Not only big enough but tough enough to run for long periods 
> of time at high load.

That's why Big Bertha is such a sucky choice for here.  40-45kW, and _still_ 
not big enough for the electric heat.
But too big by far for everything else.  If the furnace's 6 240V resistive 
elements were rewired as 208V 3-phase
it would be enough, but rewiring the furnace for that would be Not Easy.  Giant 
throw-the-switch-Igor knife switch
to convert between split 1-phase and 3-phase?  Can you even get those anymore?  
BB's waste heat alone would
be enough to heat the house, don't even need the juice---if you could tap it.

Easier to just heat with wood on those days.

Most cost-effective thing to do with BB would be to sell it, and use the money 
to get something more suitable.
But, it's also my 3-phase power, if I should ever need such.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Big Bertha has a Kim Hot-Start block heater on it, and some kind of
radiant bar mounted next to the oil pan.  I've never tried either.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

That whole 'clean' power thing is a racket, if you ask me.  Line power is
notoriously _not_ clean, at least occasionally.  Especially in developing
areas.  Most stuff that runs on electronics ends up making a DC supply
out of it anyway, from which it either runs directly, or powers a 
down-converter.
Motors and lights, and heaters, can run on the worst rat-squeezings.  Under-
voltage and under-frequence (or worse: both) will kill induction motors, but the
death is thermal so it takes awhile.  You can usually tell something is wrong,
if you're listening.

The fussiest loads we have are the UPS's, who only object to the input frequency
and decide to stop charging and start draining their batteries.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Easy. It’s called a lift pump and a day tank. You would have a small tank at 
the generator, say 5-10 gallons depending on the size of the unit and it’s fuel 
consumption, and on or next to the tank you would have a small fractional 
horsepower pump that would “lift” fuel from your basement tank. The pump at the 
day tank is operated by a float switch in the day tank that keeps it filled as 
the generator uses fuel from the day tank.

A common setup for diesel systems when the tank is not at the generator. Day 
tanks can be anywhere from 10-500 gallons depending on the size of the 
generator set and the desired amount of fuel you want available at the unit.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:12 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I wonder if I could plumb a diesel generator to use the same oil I use to 
> heat the house. I've already got a 250 gallon tank after all and its in the 
> basement where it stays nice and warm.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 7:37:35 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Not necessary. With a 25kW set, you will probably have a 100 gallon or larger 
> base tank - a tank that forms the base under the generator set. That large a 
> volume of fuel would have to be cold for a long time before it would gel. In 
> cold climates heat tapes on the fuel lines can be used but aren’t common - 
> the lines are short and sized accordingly, not to mention they’re inside the 
> enclosure getting the benefit of the radiant heat coming off the block heater 
> and block.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Put anti gel in the fuel 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >> On Feb 16, 2021, at 6:17 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  >> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> It's not the engine itself, it's the fuel tank and the lines running to 
> >> the
> >> genset that I fear will have issues at-10°F.
> >> 
> >>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:37 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com > wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Generators can have block heaters. My old Winpac has a bolt on electric
> >>> heater attached to the block.
> >>> 
> >>> Randy
> >>> 
>  On 16/02/2021 5:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>  i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
>  generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I
> >>> have
>  doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
>  off at 7AM this morning.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> ___
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> >>> 
> >>> 
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> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> OK Don
> >> 
> >> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> >> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >> 
> >> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
> >> Wernher
> >> Von Braun
> >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> 
> >> ___
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> >> 
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> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I wonder if I could plumb a diesel generator to use the same oil I use to heat 
the house. I've already got a 250 gallon tank after all and its in the basement 
where it stays nice and warm.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 7:37:35 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Not necessary. With a 25kW set, you will probably have a 100 gallon or larger 
base tank - a tank that forms the base under the generator set. That large a 
volume of fuel would have to be cold for a long time before it would gel. In 
cold climates heat tapes on the fuel lines can be used but aren’t common - the 
lines are short and sized accordingly, not to mention they’re inside the 
enclosure getting the benefit of the radiant heat coming off the block heater 
and block.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Put anti gel in the fuel 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 6:17 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It's not the engine itself, it's the fuel tank and the lines running to the
>> genset that I fear will have issues at-10°F.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:37 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Generators can have block heaters. My old Winpac has a bolt on electric
>>> heater attached to the block.
>>> 
>>> Randy
>>> 
 On 16/02/2021 5:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
 i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
 generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I
>>> have
 doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
 off at 7AM this morning.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Agreed.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:10 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Your thought about Kaleb's resistive heat strips is exactly why I suggested a 
> propane heater. Rather than burning fuel to make electricity to heat the 
> place it probably makes more sense to just burn propane to make heat...
> -Curt
> 
>On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 6:35:45 PM EST, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> Dan and Jim appear to be the experts so I will sort of address this to 
> them, but anyone else that knows should pitch in too.
> 
> My understanding is that one needs a whopper of a generator to power up 
> electric heat. Not only big enough but tough enough to run for long 
> periods of time at high load.
> 
> So, how well would it work for someone like Kaleb and his heat pump? If 
> it is cold enough to need his electric elements as well as power his 
> heat pump, how much generator would he need.
> 
> The other thing I am wondering about is what sort of generator one 
> needs. I have acquired a couple generators - a Generac that is rated at 
> something like 7500W and an older Winco powered by a 2 cylinder 
> Wisconsin motor on propane or natural gas - 10KW on propane but only 
> about 8KW on natural gas.
> 
> My concern is that I am told that my newer Lennox gas furnace wants 
> clean power and neither of my generators is capable of providing it. 
> Should I look for another in the form of an inverter generator or are 
> they even likely to produce power clean enough to satisfy the furnace? 
> My other thought is whether an inverter could be powered by one of my 
> existing generators and produce a clean sine wave power that would be 
> capable of powering my furnace.
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Your thought about Kaleb's resistive heat strips is exactly why I suggested a 
propane heater. Rather than burning fuel to make electricity to heat the place 
it probably makes more sense to just burn propane to make heat...
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 6:35:45 PM EST, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Dan and Jim appear to be the experts so I will sort of address this to 
them, but anyone else that knows should pitch in too.

My understanding is that one needs a whopper of a generator to power up 
electric heat. Not only big enough but tough enough to run for long 
periods of time at high load.

So, how well would it work for someone like Kaleb and his heat pump? If 
it is cold enough to need his electric elements as well as power his 
heat pump, how much generator would he need.

The other thing I am wondering about is what sort of generator one 
needs. I have acquired a couple generators - a Generac that is rated at 
something like 7500W and an older Winco powered by a 2 cylinder 
Wisconsin motor on propane or natural gas - 10KW on propane but only 
about 8KW on natural gas.

My concern is that I am told that my newer Lennox gas furnace wants 
clean power and neither of my generators is capable of providing it. 
Should I look for another in the form of an inverter generator or are 
they even likely to produce power clean enough to satisfy the furnace? 
My other thought is whether an inverter could be powered by one of my 
existing generators and produce a clean sine wave power that would be 
capable of powering my furnace.

Randy


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Re: [MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Like any generator application, you’ve got a series of variables that will 
affect what you want to do and what the generator can do.

Resistive heat, or heat strips, are an ideal load for a generator. Stable, 
simple, easy to balance, they’re no different than what is used to load test 
generators - resistive elements. I can’t speak to Kaleb’s heat pump setup, but 
mine has 10kW of heat strips. I’m guessing Kaleb’s and yours are probably 
larger? So that would dictate the base load for your generator, along with 
whatever loads in the house (lighting, etc.) you might want.

The killer when it comes to sizing generators, especially for a home 
application, is motor loads. Single phase motors, such as AC compressors and 
furnace blowers, are notoriously inefficient and draw substantial amounts of 
power to start. That's why you might have a well pump that’s 3/4 HP and need a 
5kW (or larger) generator just to start it. My four ton AC compressor takes a 
minimum of around 16kW to start it - but the running current is relatively low 
compared to starting current.

Here’s another variable - your Winco can probably do a much better job at motor 
starting than your Generac. Why? Because that Wisconsin engine has a lot of 
mass in it - the Generac doesn’t. The mass of the engine components and 
flywheel provide inertia that keeps things turning when a load is applied, 
preventing the engine from slowing down significantly.

As for your Lennox furnace needing “clean” power, you’re probably OK. Here’s 
why:

It may be frequency sensitive - so as loads are turned on and off the generator 
speeds up and slows down slightly, and speed is what determines frequency. If 
it has a “window” that it can operate within, say, 58 Hz-62Hz, you might be OK 
until a large load hits it and the speed drops off enough to take it out of 
that window. It might also be sensitive to the waveform that is produced by the 
generator. A generator won’t produce a clean sine wave, no matter how good it 
is. It will be “lumpy” and “lean” in one direction or the other for a number of 
reasons. However, I’m betting it probably would work, the Lennox folks are just 
being picky and covering their bottoms. Utility power is an average value over 
a given time - that is, depending on the time of day, loads on the system and 
the distance from the generating plant, the waveform and frequency of your 
power varies, too.

Have you attempted to run the furnace off of one of your generators? I’m 
betting the Winco would do it without a hitch.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 6:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan and Jim appear to be the experts so I will sort of address this to them, 
> but anyone else that knows should pitch in too.
> 
> My understanding is that one needs a whopper of a generator to power up 
> electric heat. Not only big enough but tough enough to run for long periods 
> of time at high load.
> 
> So, how well would it work for someone like Kaleb and his heat pump? If it is 
> cold enough to need his electric elements as well as power his heat pump, how 
> much generator would he need.
> 
> The other thing I am wondering about is what sort of generator one needs. I 
> have acquired a couple generators - a Generac that is rated at something like 
> 7500W and an older Winco powered by a 2 cylinder Wisconsin motor on propane 
> or natural gas - 10KW on propane but only about 8KW on natural gas.
> 
> My concern is that I am told that my newer Lennox gas furnace wants clean 
> power and neither of my generators is capable of providing it. Should I look 
> for another in the form of an inverter generator or are they even likely to 
> produce power clean enough to satisfy the furnace? My other thought is 
> whether an inverter could be powered by one of my existing generators and 
> produce a clean sine wave power that would be capable of powering my furnace.
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Not necessary. With a 25kW set, you will probably have a 100 gallon or larger 
base tank - a tank that forms the base under the generator set. That large a 
volume of fuel would have to be cold for a long time before it would gel. In 
cold climates heat tapes on the fuel lines can be used but aren’t common - the 
lines are short and sized accordingly, not to mention they’re inside the 
enclosure getting the benefit of the radiant heat coming off the block heater 
and block.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Put anti gel in the fuel 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 6:17 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It's not the engine itself, it's the fuel tank and the lines running to the
>> genset that I fear will have issues at-10°F.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:37 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Generators can have block heaters. My old Winpac has a bolt on electric
>>> heater attached to the block.
>>> 
>>> Randy
>>> 
 On 16/02/2021 5:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
 i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
 generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I
>>> have
 doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
 off at 7AM this morning.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Diesel generator sets have been starting at low temperatures for decades. 
Mainly because they’ll have a tank type block heater that can be as much as 
2500 watts, depending on the size of the engine and the ambient (low) 
temperature expected.

Parity in cost between a gas (propane or natural gas) and diesel generator set 
doesn’t start to occur until around 60kW-80kW. Below that and a diesel has a 
much higher acquisition cost but a lower operating cost.

My 25kW propane set and a 500 gallon in ground tank, including installation, 
was around $25k. While my installation was pretty simple, installation is often 
the larger of the costs. People rarely understand this, and as a result throw a 
fit when they get quotes for stationary standby sets. That’s why a lot of 
suppliers won’t quote you line items on a quote, just a complete price. 

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 6:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
> generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I have
> doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
> off at 7AM this morning.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:39 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> That’s why I thought about one of those portable diesel generators. They
>> are quite a bit more expensive though. You would probably be half way to a
>> whole home setup.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
>>> 
>>> I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
>>> steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
>>> because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
>>> with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
>>> should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought
>> about heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be
>> a waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
 Out.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Put anti gel in the fuel 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 6:17 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> It's not the engine itself, it's the fuel tank and the lines running to the
> genset that I fear will have issues at-10°F.
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:37 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Generators can have block heaters. My old Winpac has a bolt on electric
>> heater attached to the block.
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>>> On 16/02/2021 5:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>>> i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
>>> generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I
>> have
>>> doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
>>> off at 7AM this morning.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Looking - have been thinking we should get one installed for 8 years now,
just never pulled the trigger.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:42 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Do you have one or are looking for one?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:31 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
> > generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I
> have
> > doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
> > off at 7AM this morning.
> >
> >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:39 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> That’s why I thought about one of those portable diesel generators. They
> >> are quite a bit more expensive though. You would probably be half way
> to a
> >> whole home setup.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
> >>>
> >>> I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a
> square-tube
> >>> steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for
> free
> >>> because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
> >>> with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
> >>> should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
> >>>
> >>> Allan
> >>>
> >>> Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
> >>>
>  When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought
> >> about heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would
> probably be
> >> a waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
>  Out.
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >
> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> > Von Braun
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[OK Don via Mercedes]

It's not the engine itself, it's the fuel tank and the lines running to the
genset that I fear will have issues at-10°F.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:37 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Generators can have block heaters. My old Winpac has a bolt on electric
> heater attached to the block.
>
> Randy
>
> On 16/02/2021 5:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> > i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
> > generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I
> have
> > doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
> > off at 7AM this morning.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Do you have one or are looking for one?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:31 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
> generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I have
> doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
> off at 7AM this morning.
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:39 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s why I thought about one of those portable diesel generators. They
>> are quite a bit more expensive though. You would probably be half way to a
>> whole home setup.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
>>> 
>>> I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
>>> steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
>>> because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
>>> with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
>>> should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought
>> about heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be
>> a waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
 Out.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Generators can have block heaters. My old Winpac has a bolt on electric 
heater attached to the block.


Randy

On 16/02/2021 5:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I have
doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
off at 7AM this morning.



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[MBZ] Backup Generators etc

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Dan and Jim appear to be the experts so I will sort of address this to 
them, but anyone else that knows should pitch in too.


My understanding is that one needs a whopper of a generator to power up 
electric heat. Not only big enough but tough enough to run for long 
periods of time at high load.


So, how well would it work for someone like Kaleb and his heat pump? If 
it is cold enough to need his electric elements as well as power his 
heat pump, how much generator would he need.


The other thing I am wondering about is what sort of generator one 
needs. I have acquired a couple generators - a Generac that is rated at 
something like 7500W and an older Winco powered by a 2 cylinder 
Wisconsin motor on propane or natural gas - 10KW on propane but only 
about 8KW on natural gas.


My concern is that I am told that my newer Lennox gas furnace wants 
clean power and neither of my generators is capable of providing it. 
Should I look for another in the form of an inverter generator or are 
they even likely to produce power clean enough to satisfy the furnace? 
My other thought is whether an inverter could be powered by one of my 
existing generators and produce a clean sine wave power that would be 
capable of powering my furnace.


Randy


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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[OK Don via Mercedes]

i've been trying to choose between Diesel and propane for a whole house
generator, and decided in favor of propane due to this -14°F night. I have
doubts that a Diesel genset would have started when they turned to power
off at 7AM this morning.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:39 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That’s why I thought about one of those portable diesel generators. They
> are quite a bit more expensive though. You would probably be half way to a
> whole home setup.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
> >
> > I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
> > steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
> > because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
> > with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
> > should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
> >
> >> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought
> about heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be
> a waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
> >> Out.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 LOL, like using an old VW bus as a chicken coop.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 6:23:31 PM EST, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Strip in the interior out of one of those scrap cars and use it to store
the firewood.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:06 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That’s pretty cool
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Build a rack:
> http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/wood-rack-part-many.html
> >
> > I've got one of these at home and 2 at camp. Holds enough for a whole
> week at camp, about half a cord depending on how long your wood is. The
> stove at camp uses short wood so the slats have to be about 10" apart. The
> stove at home is much larger so 14" would be fine. The rack at home faces
> east, we rarely get wind from the east so the fact that the house shelters
> the west side keeps it mostly dry except in storms like last night where
> the wind came from the east but that's rare, 2-3 times a year maybe.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 1:59:44 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> >
> > My stash of fire wood is at least 4-5 years old. I initially had it
> stacked up next to the fence but it fell over a while back. In other words
> it’s just in a big pile now. Some of it is started to rot so I think I’m
> just going to start using the fireplace and use it up. I will then get wood
> again. What is the proper way to store it? I suppose I should get one of
> those racks for it.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Oh, there isn't a space between the  end of my link and the next 
word.https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/
I'll try two spaces this time. The list serv and Yahoo mail don't really get 
along. The list serv strips out most of my formatting.
Any of those lanterns will probably do the job. Sometimes when its cold here 
and I don't want to run the electric heater I'll fire up an Aladdin or my B 
circular wick lamp. They make nice heat.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 6:18:50 PM EST, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Like this one? Might keep an 8X8X8 well house above freezing with -10°F
temps? Your like went to a 30W incandescent bulb:
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-80-blizzard-cold-blast-lantern/


On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:04 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these
> tubular lanterns.
>
> Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from
> outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast
> lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern
> family.
>
> Alternately:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's
> a hot blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the
> gasses coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned
> again. A hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since
> there's a little bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot
> blast lanterns tend to burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light.
> They also tend to make less smell if that's a consideration in your
> situation.
>
> For max light in a silent lamp you want:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
> which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats
> a mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well
> house though, and kinda spendy.
> -Curt
>
>    On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
>  > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations
> please.
>
> What about:
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> <
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> >
>
> 45 hour burn time.
>
> -- Jim
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Hmm, that is actually a great idea. Holy heck I should have thought 
of that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:23 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Strip in the interior out of one of those scrap cars and use it to store
> the firewood.
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:06 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty cool
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 16, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Build a rack:
>> http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/wood-rack-part-many.html
>>> 
>>> I've got one of these at home and 2 at camp. Holds enough for a whole
>> week at camp, about half a cord depending on how long your wood is. The
>> stove at camp uses short wood so the slats have to be about 10" apart. The
>> stove at home is much larger so 14" would be fine. The rack at home faces
>> east, we rarely get wind from the east so the fact that the house shelters
>> the west side keeps it mostly dry except in storms like last night where
>> the wind came from the east but that's rare, 2-3 times a year maybe.
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 1:59:44 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My stash of fire wood is at least 4-5 years old. I initially had it
>> stacked up next to the fence but it fell over a while back. In other words
>> it’s just in a big pile now. Some of it is started to rot so I think I’m
>> just going to start using the fireplace and use it up. I will then get wood
>> again. What is the proper way to store it? I suppose I should get one of
>> those racks for it.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Strip in the interior out of one of those scrap cars and use it to store
the firewood.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:06 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That’s pretty cool
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Build a rack:
> http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/wood-rack-part-many.html
> >
> > I've got one of these at home and 2 at camp. Holds enough for a whole
> week at camp, about half a cord depending on how long your wood is. The
> stove at camp uses short wood so the slats have to be about 10" apart. The
> stove at home is much larger so 14" would be fine. The rack at home faces
> east, we rarely get wind from the east so the fact that the house shelters
> the west side keeps it mostly dry except in storms like last night where
> the wind came from the east but that's rare, 2-3 times a year maybe.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 1:59:44 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> >
> > My stash of fire wood is at least 4-5 years old. I initially had it
> stacked up next to the fence but it fell over a while back. In other words
> it’s just in a big pile now. Some of it is started to rot so I think I’m
> just going to start using the fireplace and use it up. I will then get wood
> again. What is the proper way to store it? I suppose I should get one of
> those racks for it.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Got the hot/cold blasts confused. This one is hot -
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:17 PM OK Don  wrote:

> Like this one? Might keep an 8X8X8 well house above freezing with -10°F
> temps? Your like went to a 30W incandescent bulb:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-80-blizzard-cold-blast-lantern/
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:04 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>>  A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these
>> tubular lanterns.
>>
>> Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from
>> outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast
>> lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern
>> family.
>>
>> Alternately:
>> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's
>> a hot blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the
>> gasses coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned
>> again. A hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since
>> there's a little bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot
>> blast lanterns tend to burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light.
>> They also tend to make less smell if that's a consideration in your
>> situation.
>>
>> For max light in a silent lamp you want:
>> https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
>> which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats
>> a mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well
>> house though, and kinda spendy.
>> -Curt
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>
>>  > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations
>> please.
>>
>> What about:
>> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
>> <
>> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
>> >
>>
>> 45 hour burn time.
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>


-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Like this one? Might keep an 8X8X8 well house above freezing with -10°F
temps? Your like went to a 30W incandescent bulb:
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-80-blizzard-cold-blast-lantern/


On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:04 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these
> tubular lanterns.
>
> Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from
> outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast
> lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern
> family.
>
> Alternately:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's
> a hot blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the
> gasses coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned
> again. A hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since
> there's a little bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot
> blast lanterns tend to burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light.
> They also tend to make less smell if that's a consideration in your
> situation.
>
> For max light in a silent lamp you want:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
> which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats
> a mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well
> house though, and kinda spendy.
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
>  > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations
> please.
>
> What about:
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> <
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> >
>
> 45 hour burn time.
>
> -- Jim
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 The Fakebook has once again provided the "A tea candle under a terracotta pot 
will heat a room almost for free" for those who don't know anything about 
heat...
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 5:39:24 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Unfortunately some people are just either stupid or ignorant. Already
saw a news report of a family in Texas that killed mother and one kid
and sent father and another kid to the hospital because they tried to
stay warm by running their car in the garage. Another family was burning
charcoal inside the house and fortunately were only sickened.

Allan

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  Probably almost none. Its not that cold, and it won't be cold for all that 
>long...
> Blankets, the most efficient way to not freeze to death.
> -Curt
>
>    On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 5:28:43 PM EST, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
> wrote:  
>  
>  Definitely green in that sense, the lack of wisdom and applied critical 
>thinking is appalling.  How many Texans will freeze to death due to this 
>stupidity? 
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>

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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

H

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I could probably do that. Not sure it would fit in the trunk, though.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Perhaps you can throw it in with the purchase of a certain e420.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Too bad you’re not around here. I’ve got a Generac 6.5kW portable in my 
>>> garage that has about 10 hours on it.
>>> 
>>> I don’t need it any more, but I’ve been keeping it for the next hurricane 
>>> when it will be worth big bucks.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
> On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
 
 I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
 steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
 because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
 with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
 should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
 
 Allan
 
 Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
 
> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought 
> about heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably 
> be a waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
> Out. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I could probably do that. Not sure it would fit in the trunk, though.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps you can throw it in with the purchase of a certain e420.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Too bad you’re not around here. I’ve got a Generac 6.5kW portable in my 
>> garage that has about 10 hours on it.
>> 
>> I don’t need it any more, but I’ve been keeping it for the next hurricane 
>> when it will be worth big bucks.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
 On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
>>> 
>>> I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
>>> steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
>>> because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
>>> with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
>>> should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
 heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a 
 waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
 Out. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Perhaps you can throw it in with the purchase of a certain e420.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Too bad you’re not around here. I’ve got a Generac 6.5kW portable in my 
> garage that has about 10 hours on it.
> 
> I don’t need it any more, but I’ve been keeping it for the next hurricane 
> when it will be worth big bucks.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
>> 
>> I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
>> steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
>> because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
>> with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
>> should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
>>> heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a 
>>> waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
>>> Out. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Unfortunately some people are just either stupid or ignorant. Already
saw a news report of a family in Texas that killed mother and one kid
and sent father and another kid to the hospital because they tried to
stay warm by running their car in the garage. Another family was burning
charcoal inside the house and fortunately were only sickened.

Allan

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  Probably almost none. Its not that cold, and it won't be cold for all that 
> long...
> Blankets, the most efficient way to not freeze to death.
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 5:28:43 PM EST, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  Definitely green in that sense, the lack of wisdom and applied critical 
> thinking is appalling.  How many Texans will freeze to death due to this 
> stupidity? 
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>

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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

That’s why I thought about one of those portable diesel generators. They are 
quite a bit more expensive though. You would probably be half way to a whole 
home setup. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
> 
> I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
> steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
> because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
> with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
> should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
> 
> Allan
> 
> Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
>> heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a 
>> waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
>> Out. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Too bad you’re not around here. I’ve got a Generac 6.5kW portable in my garage 
that has about 10 hours on it.

I don’t need it any more, but I’ve been keeping it for the next hurricane when 
it will be worth big bucks.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:25 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.
> 
> I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
> steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
> because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
> with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
> should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.
> 
> Allan
> 
> Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
>> heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a 
>> waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
>> Out. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Milwaukee vs Dewalt followup

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Huh, so a little research suggests that Makita is owned by... Makita. In 
business since 1915.
I've beaten the daylights out of my 4 1/2" Makita grinder for 22 years now, 
maybe I'll consider something from them.
Rigid, Ryobi and Milwaukee are owned by the same company...
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 5:15:44 PM EST, Curt Raymond 
 wrote:  
 
  Dewalt and B are owned by the same company, so is Craftsman and Stanley.
I wouldn't call a Dewalt a B, 20v vs 12v at the very least.
B actually makes a pretty good tool. We've got a 12v drill and weed whacker 
at camp that are pretty good tools.
Buddy Ben used to work at a fish farm, they used Ryobi because "They were cheap 
and somebody was just going to drop one in a fish tank anyway." He has a pretty 
high opinion of them. He has a low opinion of Milwaukee because "The chargers 
keep blowing up."
*Sigh*
I'm starting to think pretty hard about Rigid and the lifetime warranty...
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 4:46:05 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Isn't dewalt a black & decker under another name? I never thought of
them as really "pro" grade but maybe that's not what you are looking
for?

Allan

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

> I'm pretty sure I'm going red tools. Looking at the list of available tools 
> red and yellow are pretty much the same. Yesterday it occurred to me I should 
> check what my local hardware store carries. I'm only buying at Home Depot 
> because I've got gift cards. I checked and my local store has both and their 
> prices are pretty much the same as Home Depot so future purchases will be 
> local.
> Both tools felt about the same in the hand, neither seemed better in any 
> particular way.
> The reason I'm leaning to Milwaukee is that they only use one battery in the 
> "big" tool line. Dewalt has "flex volt" which kinda annoys me.
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Probably almost none. Its not that cold, and it won't be cold for all that 
long...
Blankets, the most efficient way to not freeze to death.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 5:28:43 PM EST, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Definitely green in that sense, the lack of wisdom and applied critical 
thinking is appalling.  How many Texans will freeze to death due to this 
stupidity? 

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


Feb 16, 2021 1:02:45 PM G Mann via Mercedes :

> There was a time when someone who had no experience, or the wisdom to use
> the experience they had was called "Green".
> 
> Thus came "Green Energy"..
> 
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:09 AM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-natural-gas-compressor-stations
>> 
>> An excerpt from the article, bold is mine. They shot themselves in the
>> foot.
>> 
>> "Most compressor stations are fueled by a portion of the natural gas
>> flowing through the station, although in some areas of the country, all or
>> some of the units may be electrically powered primarily for environmental
>> or security reasons."
>> 
>> A good Op-ed piece on "green energy" and the situation in Texas.
>> 
>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241603
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Do any of you ever watch Mustie1 on YouTube? He gets a lot of equipment at 
yard sales or in the free pile that he revives for small or no money. His 
videos are long, essentially stream of consciousness stuff that I tend to fast 
forward on a lot but I've learned a heckuva lot from him.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 5:25:03 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.

I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.

Allan

Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:

> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
> heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a waste 
> of time though as I would imagine they are sold
> Out. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Definitely green in that sense, the lack of wisdom and applied critical 
thinking is appalling.  How many Texans will freeze to death due to this 
stupidity? 

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


Feb 16, 2021 1:02:45 PM G Mann via Mercedes :

> There was a time when someone who had no experience, or the wisdom to use
> the experience they had was called "Green".
> 
> Thus came "Green Energy"..
> 
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:09 AM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-natural-gas-compressor-stations
>> 
>> An excerpt from the article, bold is mine. They shot themselves in the
>> foot.
>> 
>> "Most compressor stations are fueled by a portion of the natural gas
>> flowing through the station, although in some areas of the country, all or
>> some of the units may be electrically powered primarily for environmental
>> or security reasons."
>> 
>> A good Op-ed piece on "green energy" and the situation in Texas.
>> 
>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241603
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

At the end of the day it would probably be a pain in the ass it drag the 
tractor out, unhook whatever is hooked up to it, hook this generator up, get it 
to the house hooked up, then have the tractor just sitting out potentially all 
day and night in the weather. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:13 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> AFAIK the biggest problem with these is regulation. You'll need to get the 
> power on the tractor set so that you're making 60hz and then the governor on 
> the tractor has to maintain that. You're going to use a lot of extra fuel at 
> light loads and put a lot of time on your tractor.
> 
> If you had a battery bank and could use this to top it up that'd be one thing 
> but for the cost...
> 
> What is the load on your heat pump? I honestly have no idea how much power 
> they pull.
> 
> Actually thinking about it you'd probably be best to buy a couple Big Buddy 
> heaters, a 1# propane can refiller and keep a couple extra 20# BBQ tanks...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 4:57:26 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Anybody ever used one of these? Would it run the heat pump and misc other 
> items?
> 
> https://www.harborfreight.com/16000-watts-max-15000-watts-rated-tractor-driven-pto-generator-65309.html
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Okiebenz via Mercedes  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
> > heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a 
> > waste of time though as I would imagine they are sold
> > Out. 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I'd call ahead, but you never know. Worth a call.

I have a generator out in the garage, it's one of those in a square-tube
steel frame with two wheels so you can cart it around. I got it for free
because it "doesn't run."  8KW, with a Briggs engine. Haven't messed
with it, gussing it just needs a good carburetor cleaning. Probably
should, it would be nice to have if it's ever needed.

Allan

Okiebenz via Mercedes  writes:

> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
> heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a waste 
> of time though as I would imagine they are sold
> Out. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 AFAIK the biggest problem with these is regulation. You'll need to get the 
power on the tractor set so that you're making 60hz and then the governor on 
the tractor has to maintain that. You're going to use a lot of extra fuel at 
light loads and put a lot of time on your tractor.
If you had a battery bank and could use this to top it up that'd be one thing 
but for the cost...
What is the load on your heat pump? I honestly have no idea how much power they 
pull.
Actually thinking about it you'd probably be best to buy a couple Big Buddy 
heaters, a 1# propane can refiller and keep a couple extra 20# BBQ tanks...
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 4:57:26 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Anybody ever used one of these? Would it run the heat pump and misc other 
items?

https://www.harborfreight.com/16000-watts-max-15000-watts-rated-tractor-driven-pto-generator-65309.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Okiebenz via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
> heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a waste 
> of time though as I would imagine they are sold
> Out. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Be still my beating heart-- 2016 Mercedes-Benz S-Class S 550 4MATIC AWD 4dr Sedan -CALL/TEXT TODAY!!!! - $49, 750 (+ Furrst Class Cars LLC)

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

LOOKS EVEN BETTER IN ALL CAPS.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 4:18 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://charlotte.craigslist.org/ctd/d/charlotte-2016-mercedes-benz-class-550/7277958293.html
>
> --
> --FT
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Milwaukee vs Dewalt followup

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Dewalt and B are owned by the same company, so is Craftsman and Stanley.
I wouldn't call a Dewalt a B, 20v vs 12v at the very least.
B actually makes a pretty good tool. We've got a 12v drill and weed whacker 
at camp that are pretty good tools.
Buddy Ben used to work at a fish farm, they used Ryobi because "They were cheap 
and somebody was just going to drop one in a fish tank anyway." He has a pretty 
high opinion of them. He has a low opinion of Milwaukee because "The chargers 
keep blowing up."
*Sigh*
I'm starting to think pretty hard about Rigid and the lifetime warranty...
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 4:46:05 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Isn't dewalt a black & decker under another name? I never thought of
them as really "pro" grade but maybe that's not what you are looking
for?

Allan

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

> I'm pretty sure I'm going red tools. Looking at the list of available tools 
> red and yellow are pretty much the same. Yesterday it occurred to me I should 
> check what my local hardware store carries. I'm only buying at Home Depot 
> because I've got gift cards. I checked and my local store has both and their 
> prices are pretty much the same as Home Depot so future purchases will be 
> local.
> Both tools felt about the same in the hand, neither seemed better in any 
> particular way.
> The reason I'm leaning to Milwaukee is that they only use one battery in the 
> "big" tool line. Dewalt has "flex volt" which kinda annoys me.
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Generator

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Anybody ever used one of these? Would it run the heat pump and misc other items?

https://www.harborfreight.com/16000-watts-max-15000-watts-rated-tractor-driven-pto-generator-65309.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Okiebenz via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
> heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a waste 
> of time though as I would imagine they are sold
> Out. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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[MBZ] Generator

[Okiebenz via Mercedes]

When the key to the ML arrives in the mail today, I half way thought about 
heading to HF and picking up a generator. I feel it would probably be a waste 
of time though as I would imagine they are sold
Out. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Milwaukee vs Dewalt followup

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Isn't dewalt a black & decker under another name? I never thought of
them as really "pro" grade but maybe that's not what you are looking
for?

Allan

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

> I'm pretty sure I'm going red tools. Looking at the list of available tools 
> red and yellow are pretty much the same. Yesterday it occurred to me I should 
> check what my local hardware store carries. I'm only buying at Home Depot 
> because I've got gift cards. I checked and my local store has both and their 
> prices are pretty much the same as Home Depot so future purchases will be 
> local.
> Both tools felt about the same in the hand, neither seemed better in any 
> particular way.
> The reason I'm leaning to Milwaukee is that they only use one battery in the 
> "big" tool line. Dewalt has "flex volt" which kinda annoys me.
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Milwaukee vs Dewalt followup

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Aww geez, I say that and then I find M28...Not many tools in that line though.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 4:36:58 PM EST, Curt Raymond 
 wrote:  
 
 I'm pretty sure I'm going red tools. Looking at the list of available tools 
red and yellow are pretty much the same. Yesterday it occurred to me I should 
check what my local hardware store carries. I'm only buying at Home Depot 
because I've got gift cards. I checked and my local store has both and their 
prices are pretty much the same as Home Depot so future purchases will be local.
Both tools felt about the same in the hand, neither seemed better in any 
particular way.
The reason I'm leaning to Milwaukee is that they only use one battery in the 
"big" tool line. Dewalt has "flex volt" which kinda annoys me.
-Curt
  
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[MBZ] OT: Milwaukee vs Dewalt followup

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I'm pretty sure I'm going red tools. Looking at the list of available tools red 
and yellow are pretty much the same. Yesterday it occurred to me I should check 
what my local hardware store carries. I'm only buying at Home Depot because 
I've got gift cards. I checked and my local store has both and their prices are 
pretty much the same as Home Depot so future purchases will be local.
Both tools felt about the same in the hand, neither seemed better in any 
particular way.
The reason I'm leaning to Milwaukee is that they only use one battery in the 
"big" tool line. Dewalt has "flex volt" which kinda annoys me.
-Curt
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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 This summer I'm going to build something similar but to cover all my firewood. 
I've used a variety of different stacking styles over the years but having a 
tin roof is better than all of them. Right now I'm planning basically what you 
see there but 12 feet wide and 8 feet deep. 8 feet tall at the front. It'll 
easily hold 3 cords and fully stuffed should hold nearly 5.Actually I finally 
did the math, if it was flat roofed it'd hold 6 cords so 5 is probably about 
right.

-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 4:06:45 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 That’s pretty cool 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Build a rack: 
> http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/wood-rack-part-many.html
> 
> I've got one of these at home and 2 at camp. Holds enough for a whole week at 
> camp, about half a cord depending on how long your wood is. The stove at camp 
> uses short wood so the slats have to be about 10" apart. The stove at home is 
> much larger so 14" would be fine. The rack at home faces east, we rarely get 
> wind from the east so the fact that the house shelters the west side keeps it 
> mostly dry except in storms like last night where the wind came from the east 
> but that's rare, 2-3 times a year maybe.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 1:59:44 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> My stash of fire wood is at least 4-5 years old. I initially had it stacked 
> up next to the fence but it fell over a while back. In other words it’s just 
> in a big pile now. Some of it is started to rot so I think I’m just going to 
> start using the fireplace and use it up. I will then get wood again. What is 
> the proper way to store it? I suppose I should get one of those racks for it. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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[MBZ] Be still my beating heart-- 2016 Mercedes-Benz S-Class S 550 4MATIC AWD 4dr Sedan -CALL/TEXT TODAY!!!! - $49, 750 (+ Furrst Class Cars LLC)

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/ctd/d/charlotte-2016-mercedes-benz-class-550/7277958293.html

--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

That’s pretty cool 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Build a rack: 
> http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/wood-rack-part-many.html
> 
> I've got one of these at home and 2 at camp. Holds enough for a whole week at 
> camp, about half a cord depending on how long your wood is. The stove at camp 
> uses short wood so the slats have to be about 10" apart. The stove at home is 
> much larger so 14" would be fine. The rack at home faces east, we rarely get 
> wind from the east so the fact that the house shelters the west side keeps it 
> mostly dry except in storms like last night where the wind came from the east 
> but that's rare, 2-3 times a year maybe.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 1:59:44 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> My stash of fire wood is at least 4-5 years old. I initially had it stacked 
> up next to the fence but it fell over a while back. In other words it’s just 
> in a big pile now. Some of it is started to rot so I think I’m just going to 
> start using the fireplace and use it up. I will then get wood again. What is 
> the proper way to store it? I suppose I should get one of those racks for it. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these tubular 
lanterns.

Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from 
outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast 
lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern family.

Alternately: 
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's a hot 
blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the gasses 
coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned again. A 
hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since there's a little 
bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot blast lanterns tend to 
burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light. They also tend to make 
less smell if that's a consideration in your situation.

For max light in a silent lamp you want: 
https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
 which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats a 
mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well house 
though, and kinda spendy.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations please.

What about: 
https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
 


45 hour burn time.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Build a rack: 
http://curtsotherblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/wood-rack-part-many.html
I've got one of these at home and 2 at camp. Holds enough for a whole week at 
camp, about half a cord depending on how long your wood is. The stove at camp 
uses short wood so the slats have to be about 10" apart. The stove at home is 
much larger so 14" would be fine. The rack at home faces east, we rarely get 
wind from the east so the fact that the house shelters the west side keeps it 
mostly dry except in storms like last night where the wind came from the east 
but that's rare, 2-3 times a year maybe.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 1:59:44 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 My stash of fire wood is at least 4-5 years old. I initially had it stacked up 
next to the fence but it fell over a while back. In other words it’s just in a 
big pile now. Some of it is started to rot so I think I’m just going to start 
using the fireplace and use it up. I will then get wood again. What is the 
proper way to store it? I suppose I should get one of those racks for it. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Well you don't need to worry about food in the fridge going bad, just 
put it in boxes outside or on the porch.


Get one of those little 2 stroke generators from HF, they are like $90 
and will run your blowers fine.  They are quite handy too to keep in the 
truck to run a tool or air pump or something, you just need to run them 
every week or two or they get hard to start.


But a bigger generator would be good to have, you probably have to worry 
about tornadoes there that can knock out power for some extended time.


--FT

On 2/16/21 11:48 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

I really need to look into a generator or some sort.


--
--FT

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Re: [MBZ] Interesting tidbit

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I suspect that they are talking about the back of the differential 
facing the back bumper.
It does not need to be removable because the front of the differential 
is removable along with the gears.

I wonder if their replacement cover just glues on over the rusted out piece?

Randy


On 12/02/2021 11:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

One of the pieces of literature I got from O'Reilly Auto Parts recently
is a brochure highlighting Dorman's "OE Fix" series of parts, which are
re-engineered to solve problems with factory parts.

In that brochure, I learned the differential covers for Toyota 4Runner,
FJ Cruiser, Tacoma, and Tundra vehicles are welded in place. The problem
with the factory parts is they are made of thin-gauge stamped steel,
which lets rust eat away faster than other areas.

Their fix was to make a replacement cover with thicker steel -- not what
I would consider a lifetime fix, but since there were no replacement
covers available before they introduced their part, I guess it's an
improvement.

I do, though, find it amazing any manufacturer would weld differential
covers in place!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Then that shall be the plan, get this burned up as much as possible this 
winter. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 1:03 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
> You need to burn that up.  If it's jumbled and in the rain it's rotting
> and growing bugs.  Properly stored neatly stacked on its sides, wood
> grain straws _not_ in the mud, with a rain hat.  It's all about keeping dry.
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

You need a fireplace insert type wood stove with an integrated blower to
minimize sending your home's warm air up the chimney.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 2:03 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You need to burn that up.  If it's jumbled and in the rain it's rotting
> and growing bugs.  Properly stored neatly stacked on its sides, wood
> grain straws _not_ in the mud, with a rain hat.  It's all about keeping
> dry.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Firewood

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

You need to burn that up.  If it's jumbled and in the rain it's rotting
and growing bugs.  Properly stored neatly stacked on its sides, wood
grain straws _not_ in the mud, with a rain hat.  It's all about keeping dry.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations please.

What about: 
https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
 


45 hour burn time.

-- Jim

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[MBZ] Firewood

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

My stash of fire wood is at least 4-5 years old. I initially had it stacked up 
next to the fence but it fell over a while back. In other words it’s just in a 
big pile now. Some of it is started to rot so I think I’m just going to start 
using the fireplace and use it up. I will then get wood again. What is the 
proper way to store it? I suppose I should get one of those racks for it. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Another example of the six P's :
Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance - the only thing I learned in
two years of ROTC.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:09 AM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-natural-gas-compressor-stations
>
> An excerpt from the article, bold is mine. They shot themselves in the
> foot.
>
> "Most compressor stations are fueled by a portion of the natural gas
> flowing through the station, although in some areas of the country, all or
> some of the units may be electrically powered primarily for environmental
> or security reasons."
>
> A good Op-ed piece on "green energy" and the situation in Texas.
>
>  https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241603
>
> Rick
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>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Jim Cathey via Mercedes  writes:

>> I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
>> water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
>> lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...
>
> Kerosene lamp.

Or even candles, assuming you can place them where they won't set
anything else on fire.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
> water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
> lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...

Kerosene lamp.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I was just thinking about that. I have a clamp on inverter around here 
somewhere. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:03 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Is the blower 120V? If so, use an inverter and a car battery to run it. If
> not 120V, use a 12V computer fan like Jim said. Zip tie it in front of the
> intake for the blower.
> 
> Our power was off for an hour this morning, since it was almost exactly an
> hour I assume it was a rolling blackout. It came back on in 3 spurts, but
> has stayed on now for over 3 hours.
> 
> I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
> water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
> lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:40 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately
>> without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down
>> to 58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from
>> dropping faster than without it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output
>> from the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a
>> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside
>> temps and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are
>> pushed in or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and
>> it seemed like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled
>> them out. As I said it’s been a while since I have used this thing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin 
>> wrote:
 
 Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the
>> doors on it and will see what happens
 
 I really need to look into a generator or some sort.
 
 
>>> 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond 
>> wrote:
>> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the
>> chimney because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in
>> the fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to
>> run a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm
>> but then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely
>> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has
>> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft.
>> Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove
>> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood
>> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting
>> off some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like
>> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat
>> going ok the chimney.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these
>> days. 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units
>> that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder.
>> I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> 
>> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and
>> the other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing
>> ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability
>> of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> 
>> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are
>> $20,000+ while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would
>> decrease our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that
>> extra cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it
>> was in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell
>> the difference between when the outside unit was running and when 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Grant, do you have solar PV panels on your sunny roof?

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 1:02 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> There was a time when someone who had no experience, or the wisdom to use
> the experience they had was called "Green".
>
> Thus came "Green Energy"..
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:09 AM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-natural-gas-compressor-stations
> >
> > An excerpt from the article, bold is mine. They shot themselves in the
> > foot.
> >
> > "Most compressor stations are fueled by a portion of the natural gas
> > flowing through the station, although in some areas of the country, all
> or
> > some of the units may be electrically powered primarily for environmental
> > or security reasons."
> >
> > A good Op-ed piece on "green energy" and the situation in Texas.
> >
> >  https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241603
> >
> > Rick
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Is the blower 120V? If so, use an inverter and a car battery to run it. If
not 120V, use a 12V computer fan like Jim said. Zip tie it in front of the
intake for the blower.

Our power was off for an hour this morning, since it was almost exactly an
hour I assume it was a rolling blackout. It came back on in 3 spurts, but
has stayed on now for over 3 hours.

I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:40 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately
> without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down
> to 58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from
> dropping faster than without it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output
> from the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a
> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside
> temps and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> >
> > It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are
> pushed in or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and
> it seemed like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled
> them out. As I said it’s been a while since I have used this thing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the
> doors on it and will see what happens
> > >
> > > I really need to look into a generator or some sort.
> > >
> > > 
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> 
> > >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the
> chimney because its getting too much air.
> > >>
> > >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in
> the fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to
> run a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm
> but then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely
> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has
> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft.
> Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> > >>
> > >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> > >>
> > >> -Curt
> > >>
> > >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting
> off some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like
> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat
> going ok the chimney.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond 
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > 
> > >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these
> days. 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units
> that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder.
> I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > >> >
> > >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and
> the other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing
> ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability
> of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are
> $20,000+ while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would
> decrease our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that
> extra cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > >> >
> > >> > -Curt
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it
> was in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell
> the difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was
> shut down and only using the aux heat.
> > >> >
> > >> > Sent from my iPhone
> > >> >
> > >> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[G Mann via Mercedes]

There was a time when someone who had no experience, or the wisdom to use
the experience they had was called "Green".

Thus came "Green Energy"..

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:09 AM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-natural-gas-compressor-stations
>
> An excerpt from the article, bold is mine. They shot themselves in the
> foot.
>
> "Most compressor stations are fueled by a portion of the natural gas
> flowing through the station, although in some areas of the country, all or
> some of the units may be electrically powered primarily for environmental
> or security reasons."
>
> A good Op-ed piece on "green energy" and the situation in Texas.
>
>  https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241603
>
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I think for now I at least need to get some sort of portable generator. Worse 
case I could have run an extension cord into the house to run the thing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> an insert with a blower but I guess it will still out out some heat without 
>> the blower.
> 
> No, not much.  Better than nothing, but not by much.  Add a 12V computer fan 
> and a car
> battery to the mix and you'd actually get some heat out of it.  The heating 
> units designed
> for forced air just don't do much by natural convection.  They can keep their 
> own fires
> going, but most of the heat just doesn't get out into the room.
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Power just came back on, for now. Plugged the blower in and she is throwing out 
a lot of heat. Also the heat pump kicked back on, outside unit and all. It’s 
now up to 6 outside and those instructions said when it got above 5 the lockout 
should end so I guess it was just doing what it was supposed to do. 

Since I have this fire going I’m probably going to keep feeding it. In fact 
this pile of wood I have out back is probably about 5 years old. Maybe I should 
just go ahead and use it all up this year and get fresh wood next year. I don’t 
want it to completely rot and go to waste. 
I also have lots from a a huge tree that blew down at the other house I cut up. 
Just need to split it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> It takes awhile for the stove and chimney to heat up to the point you really 
> radiate heat.
> The stove we have at camp (An "All Nighter" which is a copy of a Fisher) has 
> around 100# of firebrick inside. The first hour its lit from cold you're just 
> heating the stove, after that you start to heat the room. The stove stays hot 
> for hours after it goes out though. It's annoying when you first get to camp 
> and the place is freezing cold and the stove isn't helping. We've got a Big 
> Buddy propane heater on hand just for those sort of times. By the time its 
> burned through 2x 1# propane cans the stove is starting to radiate heat.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:40:35 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately 
> without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down to 
> 58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from 
> dropping faster than without it. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output 
> > from the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a 
> > science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside 
> > temps and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed 
> > in or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it 
> > seemed like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them 
> > out. As I said it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the 
> > > doors on it and will see what happens
> > > 
> > > I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > 
> > >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > >>> 
> > >> 
> > >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> > >> because its getting too much air.
> > >> 
> > >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in 
> > >> the fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got 
> > >> to run a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney 
> > >> warm but then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't 
> > >> completely understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of 
> > >> the heat has to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to 
> > >> maintain good draft. Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for 
> > >> actually burning wood.
> > >> 
> > >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> > >> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more 
> > >> wood since you don't really know whats happening.
> > >> 
> > >> -Curt
> > >> 
> > >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> > >> Mercedes  wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off 
> > >> some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like 
> > >> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat 
> > >> going ok the chimney. 
> > >> 
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >> 
> > >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > 
> > >> > 
> > >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 
> > >> > 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units 
> > >> > that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go 
> > >> > colder. I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > >> > 
> > >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the 
> > >> > other night he was telling me that just about 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> an insert with a blower but I guess it will still out out some heat without 
> the blower.

No, not much.  Better than nothing, but not by much.  Add a 12V computer fan 
and a car
battery to the mix and you'd actually get some heat out of it.  The heating 
units designed
for forced air just don't do much by natural convection.  They can keep their 
own fires
going, but most of the heat just doesn't get out into the room.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 It takes awhile for the stove and chimney to heat up to the point you really 
radiate heat.The stove we have at camp (An "All Nighter" which is a copy of a 
Fisher) has around 100# of firebrick inside. The first hour its lit from cold 
you're just heating the stove, after that you start to heat the room. The stove 
stays hot for hours after it goes out though. It's annoying when you first get 
to camp and the place is freezing cold and the stove isn't helping. We've got a 
Big Buddy propane heater on hand just for those sort of times. By the time its 
burned through 2x 1# propane cans the stove is starting to radiate heat.

-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:40:35 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately 
without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down to 
58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from dropping 
faster than without it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output from 
> the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a 
> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside temps 
> and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in 
> or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed 
> like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I 
> said it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> > 
> > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors 
> > on it and will see what happens
> > 
> > I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> >> because its getting too much air.
> >> 
> >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> >> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run 
> >> a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but 
> >> then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely 
> >> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has 
> >> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good 
> >> draft. Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning 
> >> wood.
> >> 
> >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> >> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more 
> >> wood since you don't really know whats happening.
> >> 
> >> -Curt
> >> 
> >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> Mercedes  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off 
> >> some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like 
> >> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat 
> >> going ok the chimney. 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 
> >> > 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units 
> >> > that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go 
> >> > colder. I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> >> > 
> >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the 
> >> > other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing 
> >> > ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the 
> >> > availability of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of 
> >> > natural gas.
> >> > 
> >> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
> >> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
> >> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
> >> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> >> > 
> >> > -Curt
> >> > 
> >> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> > Mercedes  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was 
> >> > in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell 
> >> > the difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was 
> >> > shut down and only using the aux heat.
> >> > 
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > 
> 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Well that's weird. I don't think I've ever seen a carb fail while the engine 
was running.My little generator has a real actual carb bowl. I was surprised 
when I found that, I figured it'd be more like a Tillotson or Walbro carb on a 
snowmobile or chainsaw that has just a small space that acts like a bowl.
A real bowl is way better, it accumulates water and crud that you can dump out 
later rather than trying to suck it through the jet immediately.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:03:32 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On 2021-02-16 10:58, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in
> anger". It outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super
> useful for you now as it would easily run your blower and just sip
> fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at half load on 1 gallon of gas.

I ran a 850W (1000 peak) unattended overnight last spring with a freezer 
hooked up to it.
One morning I found it dead in a greasy spot on the concrete, started to 
refuel it and saw the premix leaking out of the carb at an alarming 
rate. Need to pull the float bowl off and see what failed.

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately 
without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down to 
58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from dropping 
faster than without it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output from 
> the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a 
> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside temps 
> and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in 
> or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed 
> like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I 
> said it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> > 
> > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors 
> > on it and will see what happens
> > 
> > I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> >> because its getting too much air.
> >> 
> >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> >> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run 
> >> a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but 
> >> then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely 
> >> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has 
> >> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good 
> >> draft. Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning 
> >> wood.
> >> 
> >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> >> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more 
> >> wood since you don't really know whats happening.
> >> 
> >> -Curt
> >> 
> >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> Mercedes  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off 
> >> some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like 
> >> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat 
> >> going ok the chimney. 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 
> >> > 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units 
> >> > that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go 
> >> > colder. I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> >> > 
> >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the 
> >> > other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing 
> >> > ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the 
> >> > availability of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of 
> >> > natural gas.
> >> > 
> >> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
> >> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
> >> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
> >> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> >> > 
> >> > -Curt
> >> > 
> >> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> > Mercedes  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was 
> >> > in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell 
> >> > the difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was 
> >> > shut down and only using the aux heat.
> >> > 
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > 
> >> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >> > >  wrote:
> >> > > 
> >> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
> >> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got 
> >> > > down below 20F or so.
> >> > > 
> >> > > --FT
> >> > > 
> >> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> >> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
> >> > >> some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply 
> >> > >> be locking out because the temp is too low.
> >> > >> 
> >> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor 

[MBZ] OT: Here Is Why Texas Is Dark

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-natural-gas-compressor-stations

An excerpt from the article, bold is mine. They shot themselves in the foot.

"Most compressor stations are fueled by a portion of the natural gas flowing 
through the station, although in some areas of the country, all or some of the 
units may be electrically powered primarily for environmental or security 
reasons."

A good Op-ed piece on "green energy" and the situation in Texas.

 https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241603

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT why Texas has gone dark

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Here is why Texas is dark. An excerpt from the article, bold is mine. They shot 
themselves in the foot.

"Most compressor stations are fueled by a portion of the natural gas flowing 
through the station, although in some areas of the country, all or some of the 
units may be electrically powered primarily for environmental or security 
reasons."

https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-natural-gas-compressor-stations


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: February 16, 2021 7:34 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com
Subject: [MBZ] OT why Texas has gone dark

YMMV

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/02/why-texas-has-gone-dark.php

--FT
Sent from iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2021-02-16 10:58, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in
anger". It outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super
useful for you now as it would easily run your blower and just sip
fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at half load on 1 gallon of gas.


I ran a 850W (1000 peak) unattended overnight last spring with a freezer 
hooked up to it.
One morning I found it dead in a greasy spot on the concrete, started to 
refuel it and saw the premix leaking out of the carb at an alarming 
rate. Need to pull the float bowl off and see what failed.


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output from 
the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a science. 
The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside temps and, to a 
lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in 
or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed like 
the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I said 
it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
> it and will see what happens
> 
> I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
>> because its getting too much air.
>> 
>> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
>> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
>> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
>> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
>> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into 
>> the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside 
>> chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
>> 
>> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
>> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
>> since you don't really know whats happening.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
>> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
>> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
>> the chimney. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I 
>> > suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> > 
>> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> > 
>> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
>> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
>> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
>> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> > 
>> > -Curt
>> > 
>> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
>> > Mercedes  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> > down and only using the aux heat.
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
>> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
>> > > below 20F or so.
>> > > 
>> > > --FT
>> > > 
>> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
>> > >> some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> > >> 
>> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
>> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
>> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
>> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
>> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
>> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
>> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
>> > >> 5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in anger". It 
outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super useful for you now as it 
would easily run your blower and just sip fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at 
half load on 1 gallon of gas.
A Honda 2000w would be better but also would be 5x the cost and considering 
I've never really needed mine I can't justify it.I have considered the Harbor 
Freight copy to have at camp. When we were up there last July it was stiflingly 
hot. Dad wants to get a small air conditioner but the 3000w "Champion" 
generator we have now is quite loud.Google suggests that a 5000BTU aircon needs 
550w/hr so the small "super quiet" generator from Harbor Freight would do the 
job easily. We've got 500 or so sqft. of camp. It wouldn't make ice cubes 
inside but would certainly take the edge off.
-Curt



On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:49:02 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
it and will see what happens

I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the 
> chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys 
> might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> > efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > 
> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > 
> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
> > a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
> > use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. 
> > There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> > down and only using the aux heat.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
> > > below 20F or so.
> > > 
> > > --FT
> > > 
> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> > >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
> > >> 
> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in or 
pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed like the 
fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I said it’s 
been a while since I have used this thing. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
> it and will see what happens
> 
> I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
>> because its getting too much air.
>> 
>> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
>> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
>> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
>> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
>> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into 
>> the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside 
>> chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
>> 
>> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
>> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
>> since you don't really know whats happening.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
>> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
>> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
>> the chimney. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I 
>> > suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> > 
>> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> > 
>> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
>> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
>> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
>> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> > 
>> > -Curt
>> > 
>> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
>> > Mercedes  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> > down and only using the aux heat.
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
>> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
>> > > below 20F or so.
>> > > 
>> > > --FT
>> > > 
>> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
>> > >> some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> > >> 
>> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
>> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
>> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
>> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
>> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
>> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
>> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
>> > >> 5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
>> > >> the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
>> > >> since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
>> > >> outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�
>> > >> 
>> > >> 
>> > >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> > >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on it 
and will see what happens

I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the 
> chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys 
> might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> > efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > 
> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > 
> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
> > a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
> > use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. 
> > There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> > down and only using the aux heat.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
> > > below 20F or so.
> > > 
> > > --FT
> > > 
> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> > >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
> > >> 
> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
> > >> 5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
> > >> the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
> > >> since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
> > >> outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> > >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
> > >> gets over 5 this afternoon.
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > 
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > 
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Closed, always with the doors closed. That's what allows you to control the 
air going in, otherwise all your warmed room air is going up the chimney.

-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:39:46 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 So got questions about these inserts. I have ran it before with the blower 
going and the doors closed and it will heat the house nicely. With no power 
should I run it with the doors open or closed? It’s burning pretty good now but 
seems like there is very little head coming off of it yet. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
>> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> 
>> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> 
>> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
>> a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
>> use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There 
>> are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> down and only using the aux heat. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air. 
>> >  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
>> > 20F or so.
>> > 
>> > --FT
>> > 
>> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
>> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> >> 
>> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
>> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during 
>> >> a particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock 
>> >> out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low 
>> >> pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost 
>> >> control will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
>> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
>> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
>> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
>> >> gets over 5 this afternoon.
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 16:00:26 + Rick Knoble via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I also have this one for the mower and motorcycle.
> 
> https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201
> 
> I caught it on sale for $20.

I did, too, and now regret I bought only two ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
because its getting too much air.
I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the fact 
that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a lot of 
air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then you need 
to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand why but its 
a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the chimney, 
otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys might look 
cool but they suck for actually burning wood.

Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove thermometer 
on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood since you don't 
really know whats happening.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok the 
chimney. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> 
> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp air 
> source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> 
> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while a 
> new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil use 
> 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There are 
> incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> down and only using the aux heat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> > It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
> > 20F or so.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking 
> >> out because the temp is too low.
> >> 
> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
> >> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
> >> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
> >> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control 
> >> will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
> >> over 5 this afternoon.
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Texas wind turbines

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>Natural gas well heads never freeze, and that never drives the cost of 
>electricity into the
stratosphere. Oh, wait a minute:

The reason the Nat gas pumping stations died is because instead of using the 
natural gas in the pipeline as a fuel source (as they did in the past) they 
went "green" and started using electricity.

Oops.


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

So got questions about these inserts. I have ran it before with the blower 
going and the doors closed and it will heat the house nicely. With no power 
should I run it with the doors open or closed? It’s burning pretty good now but 
seems like there is very little head coming off of it yet. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
>> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> 
>> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> 
>> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
>> a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
>> use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There 
>> are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> down and only using the aux heat. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air. 
>> >  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
>> > 20F or so.
>> > 
>> > --FT
>> > 
>> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
>> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> >> 
>> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
>> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during 
>> >> a particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock 
>> >> out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low 
>> >> pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost 
>> >> control will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
>> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
>> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
>> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
>> >> gets over 5 this afternoon.
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok the 
chimney. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> 
> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp air 
> source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> 
> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while a 
> new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil use 
> 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There are 
> incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> down and only using the aux heat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> > It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
> > 20F or so.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking 
> >> out because the temp is too low.
> >> 
> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
> >> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
> >> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
> >> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control 
> >> will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
> >> over 5 this afternoon.
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I have the second one, I think we got them in the same sale. What I thought 
was another output for cables appears to be a temperature sensor.
The description suggests its okay to parallel them. I may give that a shot.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:01:11 AM EST, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 If they are identical batteries, it shouldn't matter. I have this one I picked 
up a few years ago, it will maintain four batteries.

I think I paid $55.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005EKY1EM?psc=1=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

I also have this one for the mower and motorcycle.

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201

I caught it on sale for $20.

Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: February 16, 2021 9:12 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: curtlud...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

I guess I could get another output for the Minder, I'm pretty sure it supports 
2. Otherwise I want to keep the batteries fairly balanced. If I leave them on 
too long I'll forget and mess up the balance.

-Curt

    On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:02:37 AM EST, Craig via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 01:14:43 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

> At the end of the season I'll put them on the Minder for a week each.

The longer you have them on the BatteryMINDer, the more they will be
desulfated. You can leave them on indefinitely.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT Texas wind turbines

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 LOL, not that kind of gym. What I do is more like crossfit.
We do 10 exercises a session, each for 45 seconds, then a 2 minute break and 
repeat 3 times total.For instance yesterday we did things like a 90 degree 
plate fly where you lay on your back with one arm straight up and the other off 
to your side at a 90 degree angle to the first. The top arm goes down while the 
low arm comes up. I started with 25# plates but it was too much. I did 15# 
dumbbells (no 15# plates available) for the first two sets but had to shift 
down to 10# plates for the last set.
If we could figure out a way to capture energy from groaning there are a couple 
folks that could probably power a small city...
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:59:49 AM EST, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 The solution to that is to hook all the exercise bikes up to inverters and
make your own power at the gym.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 6:57 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  LOL I love the Bee.
> Yesterday at the gym we were talking about the possibility of not having
> class on Wednesday due to there not being power. I suggested that we had
> the technology to make that not a problem which prompted a discussion of
> backup options like candles.I escalated with an oil lamp (or 4) to Coleman
> lamps and lanterns to my battery backup system and if all else failed I do
> have a generator...
> Gotta have a backup plan for the backup plan.
> -Curt
>
>    On Monday, February 15, 2021, 9:11:56 PM EST, Meade Dillon via
> Mercedes  wrote:
>
>
> https://babylonbee.com/news/people-who-moved-to-texas-from-california-finally-feeling-at-home-now-that-power-is-out
>
> People Who Moved To Texas From California Finally Feeling At Home Now That
> Power Is Out
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 8:02 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been
> > offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas
> > grid operators.
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/14/historic-winter-storm-freezes-texas-wind-turbines-hampering-electric-generation/4483230001
> >
> > --R
> > Sent from iPhone
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will still 
work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source heat 
pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp air source 
units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while a 
new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil use 
20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There are 
incentives but they're decreasing every year.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in the 
single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the difference 
between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut down and only 
using the aux heat. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 20F 
> or so.
> 
> --FT
> 
>> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not running.  
>> I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some info about 
>> the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking out because 
>> the temp is too low.
>> 
>> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the low 
>> pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
>> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
>> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
>> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control will 
>> automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient temperature 
>> rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure control could 
>> possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very low rather than 
>> an actual system fault�
>> 
>> 
>> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
>> over 5 this afternoon.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

If they are identical batteries, it shouldn't matter. I have this one I picked 
up a few years ago, it will maintain four batteries.

I think I paid $55.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005EKY1EM?psc=1=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

I also have this one for the mower and motorcycle.

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332201_200332201

I caught it on sale for $20.

Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: February 16, 2021 9:12 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: curtlud...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

I guess I could get another output for the Minder, I'm pretty sure it supports 
2. Otherwise I want to keep the batteries fairly balanced. If I leave them on 
too long I'll forget and mess up the balance.

-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:02:37 AM EST, Craig via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 01:14:43 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

> At the end of the season I'll put them on the Minder for a week each.

The longer you have them on the BatteryMINDer, the more they will be
desulfated. You can leave them on indefinitely.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT Texas wind turbines

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

The solution to that is to hook all the exercise bikes up to inverters and
make your own power at the gym.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 6:57 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  LOL I love the Bee.
> Yesterday at the gym we were talking about the possibility of not having
> class on Wednesday due to there not being power. I suggested that we had
> the technology to make that not a problem which prompted a discussion of
> backup options like candles.I escalated with an oil lamp (or 4) to Coleman
> lamps and lanterns to my battery backup system and if all else failed I do
> have a generator...
> Gotta have a backup plan for the backup plan.
> -Curt
>
> On Monday, February 15, 2021, 9:11:56 PM EST, Meade Dillon via
> Mercedes  wrote:
>
>
> https://babylonbee.com/news/people-who-moved-to-texas-from-california-finally-feeling-at-home-now-that-power-is-out
>
> People Who Moved To Texas From California Finally Feeling At Home Now That
> Power Is Out
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 8:02 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been
> > offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas
> > grid operators.
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/14/historic-winter-storm-freezes-texas-wind-turbines-hampering-electric-generation/4483230001
> >
> > --R
> > Sent from iPhone
> > ___
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in the 
single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the difference 
between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut down and only 
using the aux heat. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 20F 
> or so.
> 
> --FT
> 
>> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not running.  
>> I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some info about 
>> the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking out because 
>> the temp is too low.
>> 
>> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the low 
>> pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
>> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
>> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
>> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control will 
>> automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient temperature 
>> rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure control could 
>> possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very low rather than 
>> an actual system fault�
>> 
>> 
>> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
>> over 5 this afternoon.
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Power just went out again. Going to head out and haul in some firewood and see 
if I can get this fireplace going. It’s actually an insert with a blower but I 
guess it will still out out some heat without the blower. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:37 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> 
> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not running.  
> I did find the installation manual online though.  Here is some info about 
> the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking out because 
> the temp is too low.
> 
> Heating Mode: The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets� If the low 
> pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
> compressor and outdoor fan operation� If the lock out due to low pressure 
> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control will 
> automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient temperature 
> rises 5°F� This feature is necessary since the low pressure control could 
> possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very low rather than an 
> actual system fault�
> 
> 
> 
> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
> over 5 this afternoon.
> 
> On 2/16/2021 9:19 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>> Wrong attitude, it takes time for the stove to get warm, it takes time to 
>> warm up the house. The time to start the fire is immediately after the power 
>> goes out. If it comes back on quickly then fine, let the fire go out. If you 
>> wait until you're cold you're going to be very cold before the fire gets 
>> things warmed back up.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 9:23:26 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Good idea, I will see if I can find one. At the current moment it is 
>> irrelevant anyway as the power has been off for an hour. Supposedly will be 
>> restored by 9am. If it comes back in then, fine. If it goes past that I will 
>> have to fire up the fireplace. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the same 
>> > for most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs piston/orifice.  
>> > But the control electronics (typically on a defrost control board) can do 
>> > anything, like totally shut down below some temp.  Might be worth 
>> > downloading and browsing the owners' manual (or might not; some are much 
>> > worse than others).
>> > 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
>> > To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>> > Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>> > 
>> > Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the night 
>> > goes. 
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> >> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last 
>> >> time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low 
>> >> pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any 
>> >> pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will 
>> >> be expensive aux heat tonight. 
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> 
>>  On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on 
>> >>> them at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a 
>> >>> defrost away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just 
>> >>> too damn cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on 
>> >>> charge. If so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do 
>> >>> they have to be done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down 
>> >>> to -14 tonight. 
>> >>> 
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>> 
>> > On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>  
>>  Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>  
>> >> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>> > It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if 
>> > it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out 
>> > and look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started 
>> > frosting up again.
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> >>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> Probably, given the outside temps and state of 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
below 20F or so.


--FT

On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply 
be locking out because the temp is too low.


Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�



Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
gets over 5 this afternoon.


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
locking out because the temp is too low.


Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�



Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
gets over 5 this afternoon.


On 2/16/2021 9:19 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
Wrong attitude, it takes time for the stove to get warm, it takes time 
to warm up the house. The time to start the fire is immediately after 
the power goes out. If it comes back on quickly then fine, let the 
fire go out. If you wait until you're cold you're going to be very 
cold before the fire gets things warmed back up.


-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 9:23:26 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes  wrote:



Good idea, I will see if I can find one. At the current moment it is 
irrelevant anyway as the power has been off for an hour. Supposedly 
will be restored by 9am. If it comes back in then, fine. If it goes 
past that I will have to fire up the fireplace.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>
> When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the 
same for most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs 
piston/orifice.  But the control electronics (typically on a defrost 
control board) can do anything, like totally shut down below some 
temp.  Might be worth downloading and browsing the owners' manual (or 
might not; some are much worse than others).

>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
> To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >

> Cc: Kaleb Striplin mailto:ka...@striplin.net>>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>
> Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the 
night goes.

>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>>
>> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure 
about last time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, 
not the same low pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or 
damaged wires to any pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset 
it either. Guess it will be expensive aux heat tonight.

>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
 On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin > wrote:

>>>
>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost 
on them at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced 
a defrost away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s 
just too damn cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is 
low on charge. If so, can these things even be charged in the winter? 
Or do they have to be done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to 
get down to -14 tonight.

>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin > wrote:


 Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.

>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have 
noticed if it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I 
will go out and look at the coils and see if they are clear or have 
started frosting up again.

>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>>
>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas 
pressure going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the 
coils from absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very 
cold air).

>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin mailto:ka...@striplin.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Wrong attitude, it takes time for the stove to get warm, it takes time to warm 
up the house. The time to start the fire is immediately after the power goes 
out. If it comes back on quickly then fine, let the fire go out. If you wait 
until you're cold you're going to be very cold before the fire gets things 
warmed back up.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 9:23:26 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Good idea, I will see if I can find one. At the current moment it is 
irrelevant anyway as the power has been off for an hour. Supposedly will be 
restored by 9am. If it comes back in then, fine. If it goes past that I will 
have to fire up the fireplace. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the same for 
> most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs piston/orifice.  But 
> the control electronics (typically on a defrost control board) can do 
> anything, like totally shut down below some temp.  Might be worth downloading 
> and browsing the owners' manual (or might not; some are much worse than 
> others).
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
> To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
> 
> Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the night 
> goes. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last 
>> time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low 
>> pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any 
>> pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will be 
>> expensive aux heat tonight. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them 
>>> at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost 
>>> away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn 
>>> cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If 
>>> so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be 
>>> done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
 
 Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
 
>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if 
> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and 
> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up 
> again.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>> 
>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost 
>> on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover 
>> and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side 
>> cover off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a 
>> whole lot though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked 
>> back on.  I shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for 
>> about 5-10 minutes and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat 
>> mode.
>> 
>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it 
>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost 
>> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or 
>> do they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed 
>> (not on a timed scheduled).
>> 
>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just 
>> went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it 
>> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when 
>> temp is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I 
>> am not sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets 

Re: [MBZ] Blizzard

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I guess I could get another output for the Minder, I'm pretty sure it supports 
2. Otherwise I want to keep the batteries fairly balanced. If I leave them on 
too long I'll forget and mess up the balance.

-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:02:37 AM EST, Craig via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 01:14:43 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:

> At the end of the season I'll put them on the Minder for a week each.

The longer you have them on the BatteryMINDer, the more they will be
desulfated. You can leave them on indefinitely.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT more weather

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Our vast estate is apparently at 21F and looking at 6-12" of snow. Here on the 
tiny estate its 35F and raining...
-Curt

On Monday, February 15, 2021, 10:37:34 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 It’s currently -3 at my vast estate and supposed to get down to -12. More snow 
tomorrow. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 9:33 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Big thunderstorm over the vast estate right now.  Pouring rain  Warm front 
> is also sitting right on top of me. Temp is 12degF higher now than it was at 
> 5pm (67 v 55)  
> 
> I’m happy it’s not snow!
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
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