my 190D to work yesterday
for the first time since I started having trouble with it last fall. It went
fine except for some noise from the diff which is quite bearable.
-Curt
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:11:48 -0600
From: Donald Snook dsn...@mtsqh.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake
scary fast
car. I know of a guy who has his all hopped up. He's such a yah-dude that I
can't stand to take the time to look at the car though.
-Curt
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:24:01 -0600
From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: 'Mercedes
, January 22, 2009 7:46 AM
To: Diesel List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
Tom you've posted that about the big three selling so many cars, can you
post a reference? Maybe one that removes fleet sales from all the numbers,
fleet sales don't really say anything about what the American
the Cobalt, and the
Cobalt looks pretty good on paper, should feel powerful but it doesn't, at
least not with the sloppy slushbox in the ones I've driven... /rant
-Curt
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:32:22 -0500
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:18:41 -0500, E M pokieba...@gmail.com said:
For all the jokes an old push rod V8 might get, it makes great power, great
torque, and yes, returns very good mileage for the power. A 350 given
little more than regular oil changes and service which is much simpler
than
, if he's
representative of the new batch of auto execs they might just pull the recovery
off...
-Curt
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:20:53 +1030
From: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID
Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net said:
So much for cars that no-one wants.
I would agree that though they are certainly not case studies in good
management, the US automakers probably have a worse reputation than they
should due to the same anti-American sentiments that pervade most of the
main
used to commute with the Dakota.
Thats not the Ranger's fault though.
-Curt
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:18:41 -0500
From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID
, January 22, 2009 8:16 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net said:
So much for cars that no-one wants.
I would agree that though they are certainly not case studies in good
management, the US automakers probably have a worse
...
Of course 50k is pretty terrible...
-Curt
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:11:08 -0500
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 1232633468.22657.1296166...@webmail.messagingengine.com
Content-Type
-1924
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:16 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net said
Apparently 600+ private jets compared to 300+ for 2004. I haven't seen a number
for 2000 though, that'd be a better comparison.
-Curt
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:10 -0500
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Ok Don wrote: What is that web site?
Its an Edmunds thing. Here it is:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/cto/CTOintroController
Donald H. Snook
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of the new batch of auto execs they might just pull the recovery
off...
-Curt
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:20:53 +1030
From: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 4977c2ed.7030...@ozemail.com.au
256-656-1924
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Gary Hurst
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:37 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
are you the last apologist
Curt Raymond wrote:
I can't read the word Cobalt without getting riled anymore. The Cobalt is an
insult to the driving public, I've never driven a car I disliked more...
Heres an example, get in a Cobalt, grab the parking brake handle and lift. My wife has to use both hands because her hands
: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:17 AM
To: Diesel List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
I'm with you if we could add the word today to your appraisal. The
planned obsolecense (SP?) of the '70s has left a sour taste in many
consumers mouths. I'm sure there are plenty of people who
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:40 AM
To: Diesel List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
A few months ago my Dad and I were talking about changing trasmission fluid
and he pointed out that years ago they'd almost never change the
transmission fluid at least until it turned brown
Tom Hargrave wrote:
50K is terrible. I owned a long string of 70's era American cars and I only
lost one transmission, at 125,000 miles.
The only tranny my parents lost in my lifetime was in a POS Jeep that should
have been scrapped by time they bought it. That was a T90 3sp manual.
The
:21 -0500
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 49788dc5.10...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Curt Raymond wrote:
I can't read the word Cobalt
whats wrong with Cordobas?
Curt Raymond wrote:
I'm with you if we could add the word today to your appraisal. The planned
obsolecense (SP?) of the '70s has left a sour taste in many consumers mouths. I'm sure there
are plenty of people who won't buy Chrysler after having a Cordoba...
My Dodge
Gary wrote: are you the last apologist for the american car industry?
Actually, I agree with everything Tom wrote. So, he is not the only one.
The new Mercedes are less reliable than many GM cars in my opinion - unless we
only compare 1991 (possibly even as late as 1995 if we include on the
Donald Snook wrote:
The new Mercedes are less reliable than many GM cars in my opinion -
unless we only compare 1991 (possibly even as late as 1995 if we
include on the 124) and older Mercedes, then the Mercedes are
superior.
Why are the newer ones worse? I've been very impressed with the
Robbins
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:06 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
Donald Snook wrote:
The new Mercedes are less reliable than many GM cars in my opinion -
unless we only compare 1991 (possibly even as late as 1995 if we
include
Tom wrote: 50K is terrible. I owned a long string of 70's era American cars
and I
only lost one transmission, at 125,000 miles.
Of all of the cars I have owned (about 40), I have only had one transmission
fail. It was a 1981 Olds 98. That particular transmission did have problems.
A lot of
John R. wrote: Why are the newer ones worse? I've been very impressed with
the build quality of mine. Only time it has had problems in the past 20k miles
(in 8 months) has been a batch of bad fuel. Motor mounts need replaced and a
ball joint is torn... (summer projects).
You make a fair
:01:11 -0600
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 49789847.1090...@striplin.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
whats wrong with Cordobas?
Curt Raymond
John,
Some thoughts
It's possible that you got an un-lemon. Low build quality usually
varies heavily among individual vehicles- there's a few 70s Fiat spyders
still on the road that have needed little work! A single example is not
a big enough sample size!
Also, since Mercedes
Like John, I have an 05 CDI and has been the best car I have ever
owned at 45K miles. NADA issues, 0-60 6.7 secs and overall 29 MPG. I
don't understand all the hoopla over the new Honda Accord when, for
less money and with a full warranty, you could spend less bucks for a
05 E320 CDI. (That's the
Heck, I had to adjust the carbs on the MGA (original engine) every
weekend, and got so that I could set the points by sight. The Olds 215
V8 that replaced it was far more reliable, and that engine didn't have
a very good reputation. The VW I had at the time wasn't much better
than the MGA.
Now I
yea, I gots to get me one of them.
John Freer wrote:
Like John, I have an 05 CDI and has been the best car I have ever
owned at 45K miles. NADA issues, 0-60 6.7 secs and overall 29 MPG. I
don't understand all the hoopla over the new Honda Accord when, for
less money and with a full warranty,
tyler wrote:
It's possible that you got an un-lemon. Low build quality usually
varies heavily among individual vehicles- there's a few 70s Fiat spyders
still on the road that have needed little work! A single example is not
a big enough sample size!
The exact same things apply to those 70's
Donald Snook wrote:
You make a fair point, John. I am basing that statement only on
comments I have heard. I have no personal experience with the newer
ones.
I think MB is having the same problem GM and such are having now,
although instead of 20+ years of bad quality control it was less
Don't know, I think their current strategy is short term ownership of a
machine that is supposed to portray wealth and success to others.
Their problems started when their cars could not even see out the
warranty period without multiple visits to the dealers shed out the back.
Every fair minded
However they have changed the door hinges and I am wondering how they
will get replaced once worn out?
It's easy: Any salesman there will be glad to show you the replacement
hinges, and demonstrate some of the auxiliary attachments that
come with them.
-- Jim
I wonder if that strategy will be the end of the company if they keep
it up, or if it will help them? You can't just charge a lot, hoping
customers will buy the products for the sole purpose of showing off
their wealth (or at least lack of frugality and common sense). Someone
else will
. Assuming the cars are
actually, well good...
-Curt
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:58:13 -0800
From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID:
f7b6bd1a0901201158m291953abn6076f5f6786fd
Curt Raymondcurtlud...@yahoo.com said:
I think this could be a good thing for both companies. Fiat cars come
back to the US under the Dodge or Chrysler (Dodge I think, I'm pretty
sure nobody under the age of 50 buys Chryslers) badge and Chrysler/Dodge
gets small fuel efficient cars in its
Curt wrote: I'm pretty sure nobody under the age of 50 buys Chryslers
I like the Chrysler 300. If I was in the market for a new (or newer) car, I
would seriously consider one. But, I agree the Dodge Charger/Challenger is more
sporty. I saw one of the Challengers on the highway the other day.
Allan Streib wrote:
The Dodge Omni, a small hatchback back in the '80s, was not a bad car
for a small econobox. A friend of mine had one and it actually was
quite a peppy car. I don't recall if they actually made it or if it was
badge engineering though. I think they used VW motors.
The L
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Omni
Allan Streib wrote:
Curt Raymondcurtlud...@yahoo.com said:
I think this could be a good thing for both companies. Fiat cars come
back to the US under the Dodge or Chrysler (Dodge I think, I'm pretty
sure nobody under the age of 50 buys Chryslers) badge
Wow, those seem almost identical to a rabbit, and they even have a VW
engine!
I wonder if the article is wrong? It says the VW engine was 1.7 liter,
but I'm not sure that VW ever made a 1.7 liter engine. Perhaps it was
actually a 1.6 liter? It would be weird for them to make a special
engine
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:50:14 -0800, tyler casi...@usermail.com said:
Wow, those seem almost identical to a rabbit, and they even have a VW
engine!
I wonder if the article is wrong? It says the VW engine was 1.7 liter,
but I'm not sure that VW ever made a 1.7 liter engine. Perhaps it was
8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
Curt Raymondcurtlud...@yahoo.com said:
I think this could be a good thing for both companies. Fiat cars come
back to the US under the Dodge or Chrysler (Dodge I think, I'm pretty
sure nobody under the age of 50 buys Chryslers) badge
The cylinder head doesn't affect engine displacement. Only the pistons
and/or crank can.
Tyler
Allan Streib wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:50:14 -0800, tyler casi...@usermail.com said:
Wow, those seem almost identical to a rabbit, and they even have a VW
engine!
I wonder if the article
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:07:38 -0800, tyler casi...@usermail.com said:
The cylinder head doesn't affect engine displacement. Only the pistons
and/or crank can.
The cylinder head has a recessed area above each piston where the valves
are -- if that area is deeper would it not have the effect of
tyler wrote:
Wow, those seem almost identical to a rabbit, and they even have a VW
engine!
I wonder if the article is wrong? It says the VW engine was 1.7 liter,
The VW was marketed by Chrysler as 1.7L, I don't know what the exact
displacement was. There are several flaws in the Wiki
Displacement=bore*stroke
The surface area of the piston, and the stroke of the crankshaft are the
only two variables that can affect displacement.
A larger combustion chamber in the head will lower the compression
ratio, but will not affect displacement. The displacement of an engine
refers
I've gotten somewhat frustrated with Wikipedia, because when I edit out
incorrect information, people come and put it back in!
Tyler
Mitch Haley wrote:
tyler wrote:
Wow, those seem almost identical to a rabbit, and they even have a VW
engine!
I wonder if the article is wrong? It says the
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:50:39 -0800, tyler casi...@usermail.com said:
I've gotten somewhat frustrated with Wikipedia, because when I edit out
incorrect information, people come and put it back in!
Sadly, schools are teaching students to use it as a source for research
projects.
Allan
--
1983
Mitch Haley wrote:
The VW was marketed by Chrysler as 1.7L, I don't know what the exact
displacement was.
I just checked with Rockauto.com. They list the Omni engine as 1.7L, 105 ci.
The audi and VW are listed as 1.6L, 97ci. All three take the same piston rings,
so I assume the engines made
When I was in college the teachers always made a point of not using
Wikipedia at all for research because it's unreliable.
I think the whole discussion is weird because all of the good Wikipedia
articles cite their sources, and the correct way to reference a cited
source is to cite the
That makes sense, I guess it wouldn't require much retooling to simply
machine the crank for 25cc more displacement per cylinder. It may just
be a matter of using the same crank with the pins ground smaller and
slightly offset, and then a thicker bearing or different connecting rod.
I wonder
be
interesting to pull for the Hybrid versions of the Chrysler, Toyota and Honda,
oh wait...
-Curt
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:03:45 -0600
From: Donald Snook dsn...@mtsqh.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID
Curt Raymond wrote:
I think we can all agree you're not the average car buyer...
Neither am I for that matter.
The 300 starts at about $28k.
Chevy Impala $25k.
Buick LaCrosse $25k
Buick Lucerne $28k
Ford Taurus $25k
Toyota Camry $20K
Toyota Solara $21K
Toyota Avalon $28K
Honda Accord $21K
Curt wrote: I think we can all agree you're not the average car buyer...
Neither am I for that matter.
The 300 starts at about $28k.
Chevy Impala $25k.
Buick LaCrosse $25k
Buick Lucerne $28k
Ford Taurus $25k
Toyota Camry $20K
Toyota Solara $21K
Toyota Avalon $28K
Honda Accord $21K
Those are all
...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Donald Snook
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:12 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
Curt wrote: I think we can all agree you're not the average car buyer...
Neither am I
Tom Hargrave wrote:
Don't blame the 'big three' for their current crises - they were building
what the American public wanted. And the numbers show this to be true.
Before the run-up in gas prices, the 'big three' sold more cars in this
country every year than all of the imports sold together.
Flexibility is the key to survival in business.
This is why Toyhota are successful, they have a range from very small to
very big and all is pretty reliable but boringly soulless.
The 'big 3' seem to be forever chasing the market and just don't seem to
be able to crack that reputation for
The one area I think American cars take an unjust beating, is when it comes
to being reliable. I've owned various cars, and American cars have been
some of the most reliable. When they do fail, which for me has been hardly
ever, they are also easiest to fix, not to mention the cheapest.
For all
What is that web site?
By the way, the same website says that the new E320 Bluetec diesel is .85 per
mile.
Donald H. Snook
--
OK Don
W124 Diesels
Ubuntu 8.10
KD5NRO
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search
those cars were pretty damn good and you could get a lot of out of them with
any care at all
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:
Allan Streib wrote:
The Dodge Omni, a small hatchback back in the '80s, was not a bad car
for a small econobox. A friend of mine
Mitch wrote:
There are several flaws in the Wiki
article, most glaring being the claim that the heater controls
were not central until 1990.
So fix it! *grin*
-- Philip
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To
: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
those cars were pretty damn good and you could get a lot of out of them with
any care at all
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:
Allan Streib wrote:
The Dodge Omni, a small hatchback back in the '80s, was not a bad car
Hallelujah! We can again buy Yugos (Fiats). (Daimler has a stake in Fiat.)
Gerry
--
LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Italian carmaker Fiat SpA on Tuesday struck a deal
to get an initial 35% stake in struggling U.S. carmaker Chrysler in exchange
for its
Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Archer
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 7:15 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] Fiat gets 35% stake in Chrysler
Fiat earned their bad reputation honestly in the USA, but they've come
a long way since. Chrysler desperately needs a new small FWD platform
to replace the Neon/Caliber/Girl-Jeep-of-the-Week. If this happens,
I'd say it gives them a definite leg up on GM (which has only the
Cobalt and Aveo
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