Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Ha now I just put it back on as it was after a bit of cleaning 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 9:37 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Didja burn out the manifold carbon with torch and compressed air?
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 6:20 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I just put the manifold back on this E300 dizzel and took it out for a
>> spin. Wouldn’t get out of first gear no matter what speed/revs.  Engine Ran
>> great though. At least I cleaned out the carbon a bit.
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Didja burn out the manifold carbon with torch and compressed air?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 6:20 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I just put the manifold back on this E300 dizzel and took it out for a
> spin. Wouldn’t get out of first gear no matter what speed/revs.  Engine Ran
> great though. At least I cleaned out the carbon a bit.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I've got the ammeter with heavy wires to check the plugs, and the nice
Hazet socket with built-in swivel for removing and installing.  I do not
have the reaming tool for removing carbon from the glow plug hole /
pre-chamber, borrowed that from a guy in NC, his name escapes me at the
moment.

I've read on Peach Parts that some have great success using an impact
wrench set to very low torque.  I think this might be worth trying if one
has multiple cars to R&R glow plugs, but for just one car I would not risk
it, unless you have no time for the job.

Recommend you call Star Motors and German Auto to see if they have the
special tool kit to deal with a broken plug and how much they charge, so
you have a Plan B.  Plan C would be buy the special kit yourself (about
$300 or so) and Plan D is R&R the head.

My write up on OM606 glow plugs:

-

Here are the key tips and tricks:

1.Hot engine.  Drive the car until the engine is hot (I drove
my car for about 45 minutes, performing a few Italian tune-ups, AC blasting
on full, to get that engine nice and hot), and then plug in the block
heater as soon as you park in the work area.   Hotter is better.   The
block heater kept the engine temp up over 80 deg C for quite awhile, and I
think it only dropped down to about 60 deg C by the end of the ordeal,
about nine hours later.  Ambient temps were about 70 – 75 deg F.

Is it a good idea to start the engine during the process, between plugs, to
keep the temperature up?  Maybe, maybe not.  Consider that at idle, more
carbon may be deposited in the pre-chamber and on the plugs, so that may
work against you.  You would also need to leave the injectors installed.

2.Liberal use of penetrating oil.  I used PB Blaster – it was
what I had.  Immediately after the intake manifold is off, begin applying
that oil.  I had ordered some Kano Aero Kroil, but it didn’t arrive in time.

3.Use a torque wrench for removal set to 40 or 45 Nm, gently
work them back and forth to slowly work them out.  The Beru glow plug
literature says that 45 Nm is the maximum torque specified for removing the
OM606 glow plugs (12mm threads).  Can one use more force?  I did a
destructive test on two old Beru star-marked plugs (MB dealer parts), and
found one broke at 74 Nm and the next at 81 Nm, using MY torque wrench,
which may or may not be calibrated.  Stick with 45 Nm on YOUR wrench,
unless you have a couple plugs to destroy to “calibrate” the breaking
torque of your plugs on your wrench.  Some have reported plugs breaking off
at much lower torque values.  Are Bosch or other brands weaker?  Good
question, I couldn’t find any data to support that, but there are reports
of the Bosch plugs rounding off easily.  The faces of the hex portion are
bigger on the Beru plugs.  Unlike in the OM616/617/601/602/603 engines,
Beru seems to have a better reputation than Bosch plugs in the OM606.

4.Remove the injectors and apply penetrating oil to the inside
of the plugs!  The first two plugs came out with much effort, over about
three hours, and the rest either would not move or moved very little (I did
not try #6 yet at this point, I decided to leave it until the end because
access is blocked by the oil filter canister and I wanted to make sure I
did not break off that plug). I decided to remove the injectors and apply
penetrating oil inside the pre-chambers to loosen the carbon on the inside.
This helped!  Every thirty minutes or so, I refreshed the penetrating oil
both inside and out for all the remaining old plugs, using over half a can
of PB Blaster during the job.  I made a spray tube extension with an angle
at the end to direct the spray to the side of the pre-chamber with the glow
plug.  I used an old piece of plastic vacuum tubing, heated with a propane
torch until it was just soft and I could make a nice bend, and then cut off
the tube just past the bend.

Result: the #6 plug had about six hours of soaking with PB Blaster.  It was
amazing how easily it came out.  It came out SO much easier than all the
rest.  I should have STARTED the job by removing the injectors and spraying
the penetrating oil inside the pre-chambers as well as outside.  I highly
recommend this if you run into the least bit of trouble getting the plugs
to move.  Note that you WILL need to change the engine oil after
contaminating it with the penetrating oil and all the carbon that you wash
out of the pre-chamber.

The blow-by-blow…

I was able to remove the intake manifold in about 20 minutes.  I started
with the glow plug that presented easiest access, #5, using a 12mm deep
well socket and a torque wrench set at 30 Nm.  I had only applied
penetrating oil to the outside portions of each plug.  My engine harness
was replaced with a new dealer harness about five years ago, but I had a
LOT of trouble getting the connectors to pop off the glow plug terminals.  Only
one or two came off by han

Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Sounds like s good plan. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 7:11 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just pull the plug for the wires to the GPs from the relay  (Bigger plug)  
> Test resistance to ground from each socket in the plug.  Should be 0.7 ohms, 
> but many multimeters will show around 1.2 to 1.4.  Look for anomalies amongst 
> the 6 readings.  Infinity = bad.  Under 0.4 (if you have a really good meter 
> that can detect small fractions of an ohm) means a plug going bad, which 
> should also be replaced.  If all 6 read within 0.2 of each other, they are 
> likely all good.
> 
> Jim and Philip say the only way to test for good is with a ammeter and big 
> wires.  I've been successful always with just a cheap ohm meter.  But they 
> are right, the BEST way to test is with an Ammeter.
> 
> After checking GPs, with the plug still off  the relay, turn the key to glow 
> position (best done by a lovely scantily clad assistant) and check the 6 pins 
> on the relay for +12v to ground.  While you are in there, change the 80 amp 
> fuse.
> 
>> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> March 7, 2018 at 5:51 PM
>> This post from one of the forums is exactly what is going on now that I 
>> cleaned up the EGR valve and got that sorted.  Looks like a GPectomy is in 
>> order, or at least test them and the relay before I tear into them all.  Max 
>> you said you had the stuff to deal with it?
>> 
>> First time starting after the manifold/EGR work took a bit of cranking, but 
>> then it has started fine since.  So either at the beginning it was sorta dry 
>> from sitting, or the GPs weren't all putting out.  it did belch lots of 
>> smoke too, FWIW.  But it will start and run now so not a huge issue at the 
>> moment.
>> 
>> --FT
>> 
>> I am getting the following errors.
>> 
>> P0380---faulty glow plug relay
>> 
>> P1369---faulty glow plug
>> 
>> My questions is are both bad or is one causing the other? Each morning the 
>> glow plug light functions properly for the first start but after that it 
>> give the error each time. I hate to spend the money on a relay if the plugs 
>> are the problem but I also hate to change the plugs if its just the relay. 
>> Is there any way to know which it is or if it is both? Would really like to 
>> fix this before winter sets in.
>> I have been down this road several times with my 99 E300-TD and, to my mind, 
>> the only solution is to do whatever is necessary to prevent future 
>> occurences. This is a very expensive, but necessary, maintenance item. 
>> Approximately each 100k km I have experienced these symptoms and have 
>> concluded that one or more glow plug is faulty. Given the labour to remove 
>> and replace the glow plugs, I change all six plugs, even though only one or 
>> two have failed. On the last visit, at @ 300k km, the relay was found to be 
>> "intermittent" and was also changed. This is about a $1000 proposition but, 
>> to my mind, cheaper that the 3-4 major tune ups that an equivalent gasoline 
>> engine would have required during the same 100km.
>> That is why I would check the resistance of the individual glow plugs first! 
>> If they check out, then test the relay.
>> 
>> At first glance I can't see how the glow plug fault would fault the relay. 
>> The relay is either on for a period of time and passes voltage then off or 
>> it's always off or always on, both of the later create faults. Good luck
>> the car computer can sense something wrong with the circuit, but can not 
>> pinpoint the bad item. That what multimeter is for.
>> If the engine starts fine in the morning, that is indication at least some 
>> plugs work, meaning the relay is good.
>> so if the relay tests fine it could be throwing the code only because of the 
>> plugs or vice versa? just want to get an idea if i will probably need to 
>> replace the relay no matter what or if there is a chance it is ok and the 
>> plugs are just confusing it.
>> Those systems are fool proof. The relay is either open or closed, voltage 
>> does not get to the glow plug(s) or regardless of key position voltage is on 
>> and your battery drains.
>> 
>> You must test each glow plugs resistance, if they are low say 6-8 ohms they 
>> are still good. Then test the voltage at the relay, with the key in 0 and 2. 
>> If you get 12V with key at zero--whoops. If you get 12V 
>> after car runs for three minutes--whoops.
>> 
>> The relay is about 150 bucks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Just pull the plug for the wires to the GPs from the relay  (Bigger 
plug)  Test resistance to ground from each socket in the plug.  Should 
be 0.7 ohms, but many multimeters will show around 1.2 to 1.4.  Look for 
anomalies amongst the 6 readings.  Infinity = bad.  Under 0.4 (if you 
have a really good meter that can detect small fractions of an ohm) 
means a plug going bad, which should also be replaced.  If all 6 read 
within 0.2 of each other, they are likely all good.


Jim and Philip say the only way to test for good is with a ammeter and 
big wires.  I've been successful always with just a cheap ohm meter.  
But they are right, the BEST way to test is with an Ammeter.


After checking GPs, with the plug still off  the relay, turn the key to 
glow position (best done by a lovely scantily clad assistant) and check 
the 6 pins on the relay for +12v to ground.  While you are in there, 
change the 80 amp fuse.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
March 7, 2018 at 5:51 PM
This post from one of the forums is exactly what is going on now that 
I cleaned up the EGR valve and got that sorted.  Looks like a GPectomy 
is in order, or at least test them and the relay before I tear into 
them all.  Max you said you had the stuff to deal with it?


First time starting after the manifold/EGR work took a bit of 
cranking, but then it has started fine since.  So either at the 
beginning it was sorta dry from sitting, or the GPs weren't all 
putting out.  it did belch lots of smoke too, FWIW.  But it will start 
and run now so not a huge issue at the moment.


--FT

I am getting the following errors.

P0380---faulty glow plug relay

P1369---faulty glow plug

My questions is are both bad or is one causing the other? Each morning 
the glow plug light functions properly for the first start but after 
that it give the error each time. I hate to spend the money on a relay 
if the plugs are the problem but I also hate to change the plugs if 
its just the relay. Is there any way to know which it is or if it is 
both? Would really like to fix this before winter sets in.
I have been down this road several times with my 99 E300-TD and, to my 
mind, the only solution is to do whatever is necessary to prevent 
future occurences. This is a very expensive, but necessary, 
maintenance item. Approximately each 100k km I have experienced these 
symptoms and have concluded that one or more glow plug is faulty. 
Given the labour to remove and replace the glow plugs, I change all 
six plugs, even though only one or two have failed. On the last visit, 
at @ 300k km, the relay was found to be "intermittent" and was also 
changed. This is about a $1000 proposition but, to my mind, cheaper 
that the 3-4 major tune ups that an equivalent gasoline engine would 
have required during the same 100km.
That is why I would check the resistance of the individual glow plugs 
first! If they check out, then test the relay.


At first glance I can't see how the glow plug fault would fault the 
relay. The relay is either on for a period of time and passes voltage 
then off or it's always off or always on, both of the later create 
faults. Good luck
the car computer can sense something wrong with the circuit, but can 
not pinpoint the bad item. That what multimeter is for.
If the engine starts fine in the morning, that is indication at least 
some plugs work, meaning the relay is good.
so if the relay tests fine it could be throwing the code only because 
of the plugs or vice versa? just want to get an idea if i will 
probably need to replace the relay no matter what or if there is a 
chance it is ok and the plugs are just confusing it.
Those systems are fool proof. The relay is either open or closed, 
voltage does not get to the glow plug(s) or regardless of key position 
voltage is on and your battery drains.


You must test each glow plugs resistance, if they are low say 6-8 ohms 
they are still good. Then test the voltage at the relay, with the key 
in 0 and 2. If you get 12V with key at zero--whoops. 
If you get 12V after car runs for three 
minutes--whoops.


The relay is about 150 bucks.





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Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

This post from one of the forums is exactly what is going on now that I 
cleaned up the EGR valve and got that sorted.  Looks like a GPectomy is 
in order, or at least test them and the relay before I tear into them 
all.  Max you said you had the stuff to deal with it?


First time starting after the manifold/EGR work took a bit of cranking, 
but then it has started fine since.  So either at the beginning it was 
sorta dry from sitting, or the GPs weren't all putting out.  it did 
belch lots of smoke too, FWIW.  But it will start and run now so not a 
huge issue at the moment.


--FT

I am getting the following errors.

P0380---faulty glow plug relay

P1369---faulty glow plug

My questions is are both bad or is one causing the other? Each morning 
the glow plug light functions properly for the first start but after 
that it give the error each time. I hate to spend the money on a relay 
if the plugs are the problem but I also hate to change the plugs if its 
just the relay. Is there any way to know which it is or if it is both? 
Would really like to fix this before winter sets in.
I have been down this road several times with my 99 E300-TD and, to my 
mind, the only solution is to do whatever is necessary to prevent future 
occurences. This is a very expensive, but necessary, maintenance item. 
Approximately each 100k km I have experienced these symptoms and have 
concluded that one or more glow plug is faulty. Given the labour to 
remove and replace the glow plugs, I change all six plugs, even though 
only one or two have failed. On the last visit, at @ 300k km, the relay 
was found to be "intermittent" and was also changed. This is about a 
$1000 proposition but, to my mind, cheaper that the 3-4 major tune ups 
that an equivalent gasoline engine would have required during the same 
100km.
That is why I would check the resistance of the individual glow plugs 
first! If they check out, then test the relay.


At first glance I can't see how the glow plug fault would fault the 
relay. The relay is either on for a period of time and passes voltage 
then off or it's always off or always on, both of the later create 
faults. Good luck
the car computer can sense something wrong with the circuit, but can not 
pinpoint the bad item. That what multimeter is for.
If the engine starts fine in the morning, that is indication at least 
some plugs work, meaning the relay is good.
so if the relay tests fine it could be throwing the code only because of 
the plugs or vice versa? just want to get an idea if i will probably 
need to replace the relay no matter what or if there is a chance it is 
ok and the plugs are just confusing it.
Those systems are fool proof. The relay is either open or closed, 
voltage does not get to the glow plug(s) or regardless of key position 
voltage is on and your battery drains.


You must test each glow plugs resistance, if they are low say 6-8 ohms 
they are still good. Then test the voltage at the relay, with the key in 
0 and 2. If you get 12V with key at zero--whoops. If you 
get 12V after car runs for three minutes--whoops.


The relay is about 150 bucks.



On 3/7/18 6:20 PM, Buggered Benzmail wrote:

It’s still showing 2 codes and the GP light is on so maybe it does have bad 
plugs.


--
--FT

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Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Way to go.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Mar 7, 2018 6:20 PM, "Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I just put the manifold back on this E300 dizzel and took it out for a
> spin. Wouldn’t get out of first gear no matter what speed/revs.  Engine Ran
> great though. At least I cleaned out the carbon a bit.
>
> Came back home and got out to get the mail and decided to have another go.
> Got out on the road and stomped it, the thing took off like a rocket and
> slammed shifts all the way to 70. Fast. Damn!  Running fine. LOTS of power.
> Steering very tight after replacing those bushings.  I guess the tranny
> just needed to get happy or something.
>
> I cleared the codes and restarted everything. It’s still showing 2 codes
> and the GP light is on so maybe it does have bad plugs. I guess I’ll get a
> set and have at that, but at least it starts ok and runs well now. It was
> idling kinda rough, like missing on a cylinder or two every few seconds.
> But now it is pretty smooth so maybe I just need to run it some and get the
> injectors and such cleaned out. I think I have some techron in the garage,
> guess it wouldn’t hurt to dump that in.
>
> I might keep this car for awhile. It’s half decent. Get the AC sorted out
> for summer, maybe gits summadem cheepcheep New tars fo it. Be stylin.
>
> Man I love it when things work out.
>
> --R
> Sent from iPhone
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] It lives!

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Hehe!  Congrats.  It probly needs a few mora dem eye tal een tuneups, 
and maybe new nozzles and GPs.  After a few drag races on the road dere 
wit da rich wite folks, you mebbe can tell ifn it needs new schnozzles 
or not.


"I love it when a plan works out"  George Peppard, the A team.

Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
March 7, 2018 at 5:20 PM
I just put the manifold back on this E300 dizzel and took it out for a 
spin. Wouldn’t get out of first gear no matter what speed/revs. Engine 
Ran great though. At least I cleaned out the carbon a bit.


Came back home and got out to get the mail and decided to have another 
go. Got out on the road and stomped it, the thing took off like a 
rocket and slammed shifts all the way to 70. Fast. Damn! Running fine. 
LOTS of power. Steering very tight after replacing those bushings. I 
guess the tranny just needed to get happy or something.


I cleared the codes and restarted everything. It’s still showing 2 
codes and the GP light is on so maybe it does have bad plugs. I guess 
I’ll get a set and have at that, but at least it starts ok and runs 
well now. It was idling kinda rough, like missing on a cylinder or two 
every few seconds. But now it is pretty smooth so maybe I just need to 
run it some and get the injectors and such cleaned out. I think I have 
some techron in the garage, guess it wouldn’t hurt to dump that in.


I might keep this car for awhile. It’s half decent. Get the AC sorted 
out for summer, maybe gits summadem cheepcheep New tars fo it. Be stylin.


Man I love it when things work out.

--R
Sent from iPhone


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[MBZ] It lives!

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I just put the manifold back on this E300 dizzel and took it out for a spin. 
Wouldn’t get out of first gear no matter what speed/revs.  Engine Ran great 
though. At least I cleaned out the carbon a bit. 

Came back home and got out to get the mail and decided to have another go. Got 
out on the road and stomped it, the thing took off like a rocket and slammed 
shifts all the way to 70. Fast. Damn!  Running fine. LOTS of power. Steering 
very tight after replacing those bushings.  I guess the tranny just needed to 
get happy or something. 

I cleared the codes and restarted everything. It’s still showing 2 codes and 
the GP light is on so maybe it does have bad plugs. I guess I’ll get a set and 
have at that, but at least it starts ok and runs well now. It was idling kinda 
rough, like missing on a cylinder or two every few seconds. But now it is 
pretty smooth so maybe I just need to run it some and get the injectors and 
such cleaned out. I think I have some techron in the garage, guess it wouldn’t 
hurt to dump that in. 

I might keep this car for awhile. It’s half decent. Get the AC sorted out for 
summer, maybe gits summadem cheepcheep New tars fo it. Be stylin. 

Man I love it when things work out. 

--R
Sent from iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] IT LIVES!!!

[harry watkins]

Congratulations Curt, enjoy.

Harry


Well I guess you knew it was alive but tonight I got all the brakes setup to 
my satisfaction, bled them and got new fluid through all the lines, got the 
parking brake set so it seems pretty good (the foot pedal still needs work) 
so I took him for a ride and got some fuel.
The fuel tank vent is plugged, thats probably no surprise after sitting so 
much. The tires make noise, again no big shocker. The steering wheel is 
about 2 splines to the right, I'd taken it off when I did the dash pod last 
and forgot to mark it first. I think those questionable looking ball joints 
in the front are actually bad though I might have had a soft tire. Dwight 
gave me some studded snows that'll go on soon.
The engine ran great, its hard to describe how different a 240D feels 
compared to a 190D though, the 190D is much more refined, as it should be. 
Clutch felt good, brakes felt great. One squeaked a bit but I'm sure that'll 
quiet down with some use.
Came right up to temp and stayed there except when it heat soaked at the gas 
station. I remember it doing that before. I should replace the coolant, 
another thing on the list which had gotten shorter but now has extended 
again.


For the first time ever Hammie has a proper 240D driver's carpet, its just a 
bit darker than the interior of the car, more brown than tan, but it looks a 
heck of a lot better than no carpet at all!


-Curt



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[MBZ] IT LIVES!!!

[Curt Raymond]

Well  I guess you knew it was alive but tonight I got all the brakes setup to 
my satisfaction, bled them and got new fluid through all the lines, got the 
parking brake set so it seems pretty good (the foot pedal still needs work) so 
I took him for a ride and got some fuel.
The fuel tank vent is plugged, thats probably no surprise after sitting so 
much. The tires make noise, again no big shocker. The steering wheel is about 2 
splines to the right, I'd taken it off when I did the dash pod last and forgot 
to mark it first. I think those questionable looking ball joints in the front 
are actually bad though I might have had a soft tire. Dwight gave me some 
studded snows that'll go on soon.
The engine ran great, its hard to describe how different a 240D feels compared 
to a 190D though, the 190D is much more refined, as it should be. Clutch felt 
good, brakes felt great. One squeaked a bit but I'm sure that'll quiet down 
with some use.
Came right up to temp and stayed there except when it heat soaked at the gas 
station. I remember it doing that before. I should replace the coolant, another 
thing on the list which had gotten shorter but now has extended again.

For the first time ever Hammie has a proper 240D driver's carpet, its just a 
bit darker than the interior of the car, more brown than tan, but it looks a 
heck of a lot better than no carpet at all!

-Curt



  
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