Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) BioBeast '82 300CD (176 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine Quoting Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Record profits? Tell us what the difference is between a profit and a profit margin. Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you do not believe in a free market? Luther wrote: You can live that fairy tale, but this is the real world. Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:27:41 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BZZZT, WRONG. Competition will result in lower prices. If company A no longer h as to pay the embedded tax, they can lower their price by x amount, so they will them be cheaper than company B. Soon, company B will also lower their price as well to keep up. Luther wrote: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? And while you are at it, why not just invite the Federal Government into 100% of our lives?? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Tom Hargrave wrote: Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? Maybe Fidel would help us out with that. I hear he's unemployed now. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Excellent plan. That would drive the economy to new heights of success, and fund lots of programs for hope and change. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? And while you are at it, why not just invite the Federal Government into 100% of our lives?? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
You are starting to sound like the socialis... oh wait, I mean, democratic party. Rich Thomas wrote: Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
you wrote If I had any brains, I would have put my sell order in at $920 and made $8 in an hour instead of $0.40 in 11 seconds. Assuming you knew it would rise when you had to place the order - and then it actually *did* rise. ;-) I can see how someone might buy your sale at a small qty and price - but to drive the price of a barrel of oil up by $5 or $10 takes more than people placing orders at that price - unless they have unlimited funds of course. And true, people in OPEC have such deep pockets but wht buy their own oil? Hmm.. maybe G Soros is buying it? Trying to lose all that money he made in the past ? Or maybe he's ust getting lucky and people keep buying his high priced sell orders? Seems like a plot in a novel - ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Mitch Haley wrote: I bid $912 for a single June ZG (100oz gold), and watched the published bid rise from $911.80 to $912 and then a seller quickly hit my bid and the quoted bid dropped to 911.70 or something. By the time I could get a sell order entered, the bid was 911.30 and the offer was 911.60, so I offered to sell at 911.40 and sold it almost instantly. Boy did I mess up when I wrote that out. Bought at 912, bid instantly dropped to 911.7 as soon as my bid was knocked out. By the time I could get a sell order opened up in my software, it had risen to 912.3 bid, 912.6 ask. I then put in an offer to sell at 912.4 and instantly sold for a $0.40 profit. If I had any brains, I would have put my sell order in at $920 and made $8 in an hour instead of $0.40 in 11 seconds. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
That kind of 5 year plan/s worked really well in USSR - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Excellent plan. That would drive the economy to new heights of success, and fund lots of programs for hope and change. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? And while you are at it, why not just invite the Federal Government into 100% of our lives?? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
But they had run out of hope and were not interested in change. My Plan includes nationalization of the evil oil companies (and any other company that makes too much profit at the expense of the workers and middle class and those left behind, e.g., food companies), programs, hope, and change. I'll throw in some dialog and conversation too as an added bonus. --R LarryT wrote: That kind of 5 year plan/s worked really well in USSR - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Excellent plan. That would drive the economy to new heights of success, and fund lots of programs for hope and change. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? And while you are at it, why not just invite the Federal Government into 100% of our lives?? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
So, who decides what is too much profit? You? Or worse, the Government??? Why would I want someone as powerful and uncaring as the IRS deciding how much of my cashflow is profit, deciding how much is excess and then deciding where it should go? What motivation would I have to grow a business under these conditions?? Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/20/08 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes But they had run out of hope and were not interested in change. My Plan includes nationalization of the evil oil companies (and any other company that makes too much profit at the expense of the workers and middle class and those left behind, e.g., food companies), programs, hope, and change. I'll throw in some dialog and conversation too as an added bonus. --R LarryT wrote: That kind of 5 year plan/s worked really well in USSR - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Excellent plan. That would drive the economy to new heights of success, and fund lots of programs for hope and change. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? And while you are at it, why not just invite the Federal Government into 100% of our lives?? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Sure, just like the USSR and China. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/20/08 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Excellent plan. That would drive the economy to new heights of success, and fund lots of programs for hope and change. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? And while you are at it, why not just invite the Federal Government into 100% of our lives?? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Luther wrote: Ahh, but look at Exxon. earnings statements for 2005, 2006, 2007... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOMannual 2005 total revenue of $370,680,000,000 2005 net income of $36,130,000,000 Profit 9.74695% 2006 total revenue of $377,635,000,000 2006 net income of $39,500,000,000 profit 10.4598% 2007 total revenue of $404,552,000,000 2007 net income of $40,160,000,000 profit 10.0383% and a few more years 2004 8.4990% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2003 9.0739% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf 2002 5.7029% from http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/corporate/AR_2004.pdf As you can see2006 and 2007 were better than $0.90 on the dollar operating ratio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Rich That's been done in several countries. Mexico comes to mind. Lots of oil available, but after years of quasi-governmental control they've been importing- especially in refined fuels. Venezuela? Take a look at their recent production trends. Russia has also been active in re-appropriating oil fields, and they've also seen production stagnate with their former partners gone. Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I am thinking Rich is funnin' with us - ;-) He obviously knows how absurd such a suggestion is and wants to see who will rise to the bait -- Jeez, *everybody* knows how aburd such a suggestion is. Except Castro of course. Besides, ~10% seems pretty low - don't forget, we could get them to invest all that profit in new refineries and drilling rigs if we'd only open some domestic oil fields up to exploration. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Tony Wirtel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Rich That's been done in several countries. Mexico comes to mind. Lots of oil available, but after years of quasi-governmental control they've been importing- especially in refined fuels. Venezuela? Take a look at their recent production trends. Russia has also been active in re-appropriating oil fields, and they've also seen production stagnate with their former partners gone. Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
You never know. I used to work with a card carrying Communist. He would spout off facts about his perfect 32 hour work week and how unfair Capitalism was to the working class. One day I got fed up and I stated It must be nice to dream about the perfect system while working in a capitalistic society. He asked what do you mean. I responded with Here you are, enjoying the proceeds of the greatest economy in the world. You drive the car you chose to drive. You wear the close you chose to wear. You get to watch football on a huge 31 color television (this was a while ago). You eat the food you want to eat. And you have the freedom to travel anywhere in this country. And you do these things with no restrictions other than your own finances, which by the way, are ultimately your responsibility. You get to do all of this while dreaming of the perfect Communist system which has proven over over again to not be able to provide the standard of living you are used to. He glared at me, walked away and as far as I know still keeps his Communist dreams to himself. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes I am thinking Rich is funnin' with us - ;-) He obviously knows how absurd such a suggestion is and wants to see who will rise to the bait -- Jeez, *everybody* knows how aburd such a suggestion is. Except Castro of course. Besides, ~10% seems pretty low - don't forget, we could get them to invest all that profit in new refineries and drilling rigs if we'd only open some domestic oil fields up to exploration. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Tony Wirtel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Rich That's been done in several countries. Mexico comes to mind. Lots of oil available, but after years of quasi-governmental control they've been importing- especially in refined fuels. Venezuela? Take a look at their recent production trends. Russia has also been active in re-appropriating oil fields, and they've also seen production stagnate with their former partners gone. Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
F that! They need to be involved in less than 5% of my life. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) BioBeast '82 300CD (176 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine Quoting Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Nationalize oil companies? Then why not nationalize healthcare, convenience stores, home mortgages, banking, grocery stores, Wal-Mart, GE, Microsoft? And while you are at it, why not just invite the Federal Government into 100% of our lives?? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Well, he still has Hope that things might Change! --R Tom Hargrave wrote: You never know. I used to work with a card carrying Communist. He would spout off facts about his perfect 32 hour work week and how unfair Capitalism was to the working class. One day I got fed up and I stated It must be nice to dream about the perfect system while working in a capitalistic society. He asked what do you mean. I responded with Here you are, enjoying the proceeds of the greatest economy in the world. You drive the car you chose to drive. You wear the close you chose to wear. You get to watch football on a huge 31 color television (this was a while ago). You eat the food you want to eat. And you have the freedom to travel anywhere in this country. And you do these things with no restrictions other than your own finances, which by the way, are ultimately your responsibility. You get to do all of this while dreaming of the perfect Communist system which has proven over over again to not be able to provide the standard of living you are used to. He glared at me, walked away and as far as I know still keeps his Communist dreams to himself. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes I am thinking Rich is funnin' with us - ;-) He obviously knows how absurd such a suggestion is and wants to see who will rise to the bait -- Jeez, *everybody* knows how aburd such a suggestion is. Except Castro of course. Besides, ~10% seems pretty low - don't forget, we could get them to invest all that profit in new refineries and drilling rigs if we'd only open some domestic oil fields up to exploration. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Tony Wirtel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Oil companies should be nationalized and run by the federal government, with all excess income going to fund programs. That ought to make things better. --R Rich That's been done in several countries. Mexico comes to mind. Lots of oil available, but after years of quasi-governmental control they've been importing- especially in refined fuels. Venezuela? Take a look at their recent production trends. Russia has also been active in re-appropriating oil fields, and they've also seen production stagnate with their former partners gone. Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Record profits? Tell us what the difference is between a profit and a profit margin. Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you do not believe in a free market? Luther wrote: You can live that fairy tale, but this is the real world. Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:27:41 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BZZZT, WRONG. Competition will result in lower prices. If company A no longer h as to pay the embedded tax, they can lower their price by x amount, so they will them be cheaper than company B. Soon, company B will also lower their price as well to keep up. Luther wrote: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
If you have a 401K, or just about any other retirement account, pension etc you are probably invested in an oil company. As for profits, the government makes FAR more off the sale of fuel than does the oil companies. Maybe they should give up some of their share? Rich Thomas wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Well you see, this kind of comment is confusing the oil-company bashers with the facts. When I was in college, a local pol ran for office. The opponent's only advertising consisted of repeated radio commercials of the guy saying (caught on tape at some event), Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up. Opponent won. --R Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: If you have a 401K, or just about any other retirement account, pension etc you are probably invested in an oil company. As for profits, the government makes FAR more off the sale of fuel than does the oil companies. Maybe they should give up some of their share? Rich Thomas wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Tom, I don't think you have the whole picture on why we have so many Indian physicians in the US. No doubt some might come for primarily financial reasons, but the other quite important factor has to do with the desire to be more than a family physician. The bulk of the population might never see a physician in their life, or it would be at best a very rare occasion. India does have a wealthy class who can afford and avail themselves of such services, but the main need for most of the country is basic medical care. For the government to support training of village health workers would be $$ far better spent. It would not make sense to invest in the specialized education for a specialist that few would ever see. I am sure finance does play a role, but so does the desire to be better trained and to become a better physician. A relatively wealthy population who demand and can pay for advanced services is a necessity for those wanting more $ but also for those not satisfied to do mostly 'entry level' care. Another perspective. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:22 PM To: 'Jim Cathey'; 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes So, you are suggesting that we place even more of the tax burden on the rich? England did that, so does India. Why do you think so many of our Physicians are from those two countries. Capitolism works because those of us who are motivated and fotunate enough to excel are rewarded. Take peoples motivation to excel, for example - through excessive taxtation, and you will only drive these people to leave or rebel. That's what the American revolution was all about! Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/16/08 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes But the bulk of the tax dollars are collected from the lower middle classes. Is that not fair? That's the bulk of the people, and presumably where the bulk of benefits reaped from taxation are seen. Or are we proposing that there be 'tax slaves'? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Extending your logic a bit further, Traders do not set prices. They match sell orders with buy orders. Supply with demand. The market sets the price. If only it really worked like that -Dave Walton On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
A bit better explanation, but I'll bite - how does it really work? Dick Cheney's weekly oil-price setting conference call? Trilateral Commission? Chinese buyers/ Arab sellers and London/NY/HK traders? --R dave walton wrote: Extending your logic a bit further, Traders do not set prices. They match sell orders with buy orders. Supply with demand. The market sets the price. If only it really worked like that -Dave Walton On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
You wrote Traders do not set prices. Thank goodness you wrote that! I keep hearing people who should know better - like the talking heads for instance - blame high oil prices on sime mysterious oil traders who are pushing prices up. Jeepers (how's that for a curse word?) as you said, if ony that were true! My short foray into the futures market cost me $3000 *very* fast - including a crude futures contract where I bet it would go up - natch,.. it went down and I lost $1100 - in 3 days. The futures market is very tricky (duh) - no one is setting prices - people think the price will go up or down and bet that way - then they win or lose. But to place the bet (an order) will cost more or less depending on how likely the move is. Say you wanted to buy a Short contract - betting the price of *anything* will go down - but let's say you think oil will drop next week when your contract matures - since recent history says the price will go up and you bet matures in a week, the price for your bet will not be very high - but if you wanted to buy a contract bettng the contract would go *up* during the next week, the contract would be more expensive because it's likely to go up as it has during the last year - and if it doesn;t go up as much as you bet you lose - or if it goes down during the time your contract is in effect you will need deep enuf pockets to ride out the bump - else, your contract will be killed and, yep, you lose your money. Notice in all that you are *never* given the chance to tell the market what the price is *going* to be. Doesn;t happen -- never. But some people think some rich people or oil companies are setting prices and making buckets of money in the background. Nope - if they did they'd be guilty of collusion and end up in jail. My $3000 education goes a little farther than that - but that's the basics - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Extending your logic a bit further, Traders do not set prices. They match sell orders with buy orders. Supply with demand. The market sets the price. If only it really worked like that -Dave Walton On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Futures scare me. Options on Futures limit your risk, but are pricey. Nowdays I just work for a living and let the Mutual Funds sit. I do dabble here and there. AMD is interesting now. I did a stint as a desk trader in Jersey City, New Jersey many years ago, but that's a job for younger men - well suited to the video game generation. I'm only 6' 2 and was not tall enough to be a floor trader. There are parts of the oil business that behave like a free market, but OPEC is sitting at the top and we are subject to their whim. -Dave Walton On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You wrote Traders do not set prices. Thank goodness you wrote that! I keep hearing people who should know better - like the talking heads for instance - blame high oil prices on sime mysterious oil traders who are pushing prices up. Jeepers (how's that for a curse word?) as you said, if ony that were true! My short foray into the futures market cost me $3000 *very* fast - including a crude futures contract where I bet it would go up - natch,.. it went down and I lost $1100 - in 3 days. The futures market is very tricky (duh) - no one is setting prices - people think the price will go up or down and bet that way - then they win or lose. But to place the bet (an order) will cost more or less depending on how likely the move is. Say you wanted to buy a Short contract - betting the price of *anything* will go down - but let's say you think oil will drop next week when your contract matures - since recent history says the price will go up and you bet matures in a week, the price for your bet will not be very high - but if you wanted to buy a contract bettng the contract would go *up* during the next week, the contract would be more expensive because it's likely to go up as it has during the last year - and if it doesn;t go up as much as you bet you lose - or if it goes down during the time your contract is in effect you will need deep enuf pockets to ride out the bump - else, your contract will be killed and, yep, you lose your money. Notice in all that you are *never* given the chance to tell the market what the price is *going* to be. Doesn;t happen -- never. But some people think some rich people or oil companies are setting prices and making buckets of money in the background. Nope - if they did they'd be guilty of collusion and end up in jail. My $3000 education goes a little farther than that - but that's the basics - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Extending your logic a bit further, Traders do not set prices. They match sell orders with buy orders. Supply with demand. The market sets the price. If only it really worked like that -Dave Walton On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
You are totally correct! It can be very scarey. My problem was not having deep enough pockets to ride out a dip or bump in the prices - a few cents either way can wipe out thousands - of course there are ways to limit risk but the contract can be lost easily. Reading all the graphs and looking for triple dips - which suppoisedly indicate a potential rise in prices are gimmicks to catch new traders - make them think there's a method hidden in the graphs - actually the only thing that sees the future is knowledge of the market - little nuances like corn increases so it costs more to feed cattle and pigs - making bacon and beef cost more - Actually the best way to understand how futures work is to watch the Eddie Murphy movie that dealt with the orange juice market and the things that made the prices change - cold weather, labor problems, etc - let's see - Trading Places IIRC. Basically *anything* is traded on the futures market - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Futures scare me. Options on Futures limit your risk, but are pricey. Nowdays I just work for a living and let the Mutual Funds sit. I do dabble here and there. AMD is interesting now. I did a stint as a desk trader in Jersey City, New Jersey many years ago, but that's a job for younger men - well suited to the video game generation. I'm only 6' 2 and was not tall enough to be a floor trader. There are parts of the oil business that behave like a free market, but OPEC is sitting at the top and we are subject to their whim. -Dave Walton On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You wrote Traders do not set prices. Thank goodness you wrote that! I keep hearing people who should know better - like the talking heads for instance - blame high oil prices on sime mysterious oil traders who are pushing prices up. Jeepers (how's that for a curse word?) as you said, if ony that were true! My short foray into the futures market cost me $3000 *very* fast - including a crude futures contract where I bet it would go up - natch,.. it went down and I lost $1100 - in 3 days. The futures market is very tricky (duh) - no one is setting prices - people think the price will go up or down and bet that way - then they win or lose. But to place the bet (an order) will cost more or less depending on how likely the move is. Say you wanted to buy a Short contract - betting the price of *anything* will go down - but let's say you think oil will drop next week when your contract matures - since recent history says the price will go up and you bet matures in a week, the price for your bet will not be very high - but if you wanted to buy a contract bettng the contract would go *up* during the next week, the contract would be more expensive because it's likely to go up as it has during the last year - and if it doesn;t go up as much as you bet you lose - or if it goes down during the time your contract is in effect you will need deep enuf pockets to ride out the bump - else, your contract will be killed and, yep, you lose your money. Notice in all that you are *never* given the chance to tell the market what the price is *going* to be. Doesn;t happen -- never. But some people think some rich people or oil companies are setting prices and making buckets of money in the background. Nope - if they did they'd be guilty of collusion and end up in jail. My $3000 education goes a little farther than that - but that's the basics - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Extending your logic a bit further, Traders do not set prices. They match sell orders with buy orders. Supply with demand. The market sets the price. If only it really worked like that -Dave Walton On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
LarryT wrote: Notice in all that you are *never* given the chance to tell the market what the price is *going* to be. Sure you can. It's called a limit order. For example, let's say you are willing to buy 1,000 barrels (42,000 gallons) of crude at $110 a barrel. You just place a limit buy order for one contract at $110. As long as there are plenty of buyers willing to pay more than $110, your order doesn't execute. The traders (in the aggregate) set the price. It will end up at whatever price the number of sellers equals the number of buyers. I got to see this at work yesterday, as I made my first ever commodity trade. (I usually trade stock index futures) I bid $912 for a single June ZG (100oz gold), and watched the published bid rise from $911.80 to $912 and then a seller quickly hit my bid and the quoted bid dropped to 911.70 or something. By the time I could get a sell order entered, the bid was 911.30 and the offer was 911.60, so I offered to sell at 911.40 and sold it almost instantly. That was fun, so I did it again, bid 912, then offered to sell at 912.7, this time it took over 30 seconds for a buyer to hit my selling price. My willingness to buy at 912 held the price up at that level for a second or two longer than it would have without my participation, and my willingness to sell at 912.7 likewise made a slight slowing of the rise to 913.5 that was underway. As one person trading a meager 100 ounces, my effect on the market was negligable, but I could see it in action. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Mitch Haley wrote: I bid $912 for a single June ZG (100oz gold), and watched the published bid rise from $911.80 to $912 and then a seller quickly hit my bid and the quoted bid dropped to 911.70 or something. By the time I could get a sell order entered, the bid was 911.30 and the offer was 911.60, so I offered to sell at 911.40 and sold it almost instantly. Boy did I mess up when I wrote that out. Bought at 912, bid instantly dropped to 911.7 as soon as my bid was knocked out. By the time I could get a sell order opened up in my software, it had risen to 912.3 bid, 912.6 ask. I then put in an offer to sell at 912.4 and instantly sold for a $0.40 profit. If I had any brains, I would have put my sell order in at $920 and made $8 in an hour instead of $0.40 in 11 seconds. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I really do not understand any of this really. So, where did you do this bidding? Did you actually make any money on it? Mitch Haley wrote: LarryT wrote: Notice in all that you are *never* given the chance to tell the market what the price is *going* to be. Sure you can. It's called a limit order. For example, let's say you are willing to buy 1,000 barrels (42,000 gallons) of crude at $110 a barrel. You just place a limit buy order for one contract at $110. As long as there are plenty of buyers willing to pay more than $110, your order doesn't execute. The traders (in the aggregate) set the price. It will end up at whatever price the number of sellers equals the number of buyers. I got to see this at work yesterday, as I made my first ever commodity trade. (I usually trade stock index futures) I bid $912 for a single June ZG (100oz gold), and watched the published bid rise from $911.80 to $912 and then a seller quickly hit my bid and the quoted bid dropped to 911.70 or something. By the time I could get a sell order entered, the bid was 911.30 and the offer was 911.60, so I offered to sell at 911.40 and sold it almost instantly. That was fun, so I did it again, bid 912, then offered to sell at 912.7, this time it took over 30 seconds for a buyer to hit my selling price. My willingness to buy at 912 held the price up at that level for a second or two longer than it would have without my participation, and my willingness to sell at 912.7 likewise made a slight slowing of the rise to 913.5 that was underway. As one person trading a meager 100 ounces, my effect on the market was negligable, but I could see it in action. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you do not believe in a free market? Luther wrote: You can live that fairy tale, but this is the real world. Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:27:41 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BZZZT, WRONG. Competition will result in lower prices. If company A no longer h as to pay the embedded tax, they can lower their price by x amount, so they will them be cheaper than company B. Soon, company B will also lower their price as well to keep up. Luther wrote: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... The ones with record profits are the ones who are pumping it out of the ground at record prices. Nothing wrong with that. Refiners, even the best ones like Frontier Oil (ticker symbol FTO) had an earnings spike, but that's history and now earnings are plummeting. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
With the existing regulation, big oil has a de-facto monopoly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luther Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 13:45 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you do not believe in a free market? Luther wrote: You can live that fairy tale, but this is the real world. Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:27:41 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BZZZT, WRONG. Competition will result in lower prices. If company A no longer h as to pay the embedded tax, they can lower their price by x amount, so they will them be cheaper than company B. Soon, company B will also lower their price as well to keep up. Luther wrote: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R Luther wrote: I believe in the free market, but does it really work? Take a look at the fuel industry. Record prices AND record profits... That's not free market... Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:55:58 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Agreed. And where were these folks on the subject when oil was about $10/bbl and oil companies were losing their shirts? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
The thing that annoys me is that the oil producers are crying about how it is getting more expensive to find and extract oil. Every few weeks there is a 'crisis' somewhere and the price goes up. Question is how critical are these crisis? Are they just beat ups to push the price up? Smells like a con job to me. Hendrik Rich Thomas wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Hendrik Fay wrote: The thing that annoys me is that the oil producers are crying about how it is getting more expensive to find and extract oil. Of course it's more expensive. All their equipment runs on oil. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Houston is the center of the all bidness in the US. Most of the easy oil has been found and extracted. Now, the big reserves (that the companies are allowed to tap) are located off-shore in thousands of feet of water in the Gulf. The technology and equipment used to get to this stuff is amazing, and the sea-floor pipeline networks to bring it ashore are also amazing (laying pipelines on the sea floor in 7000 ft of water, e.g.). There is a big hub offshore a hundred miles or more that manages all this, it was down for a couple of weeks (might still be) for maintenance, and that drives up the price. A storm off the coast of Africa that might turn into a hurricane drives up prices. Ahmajamadingdong says he is going to nuke Israel drives up prices. Hooogo says he is going to tax the oil companies usurious rates (which went into effect this week) drives up prices. Congress won't allow drilling in near-shore areas, drives up prices. Everybody saying carbon taxes, drives up prices. Traders having problems with their girlfriends and/or wives drive up prices. George Soros had a dinner for 25 people a coupla weeks ago at his Southampton house, bunch of old guys and 2 who were in their 20s, drive up prices. It is a con job to a great extent, follow the money. Note that the oil companies do not set prices, that is the traders. The oil companies make sort of a fixed percentage, that is not controlling. --R Hendrik Fay wrote: The thing that annoys me is that the oil producers are crying about how it is getting more expensive to find and extract oil. Every few weeks there is a 'crisis' somewhere and the price goes up. Question is how critical are these crisis? Are they just beat ups to push the price up? Smells like a con job to me. Hendrik Rich Thomas wrote: I don't understand why people think an oil company should not make profits. Their profits are pretty much in line with other companies, and lower than some (Microsoft for example), as a percentage of income. Should it be 0% or 2% or what? If less than the average then stock prices go down, investments go down, exploration/production go down, then prices go up more. Invest in oil company stocks and reap some benefits. Prices for crude and refined products are set by traders on the exchanges, not the oil companies. Profits are what they are. What profit % number would make everyone happy? --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
If you run a real business (Which I do), you budget Labor, Material, Depreciation, O'head, Taxes, Etc. You pay your obligations, keep the balence to invest or buy popsycles with as you see fit. If you don't do this, the endeaver is called a hobbie. I've done that too ;-( Pete -- Original message -- From: barry Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] That sounds OK for a guy on a salary or working hourly but how do you figure it out for a business where you have to pay for materials and labor etc. Barry But that is not my tax plan. Mine is x% of gross income. If I make (I wish!) $100,000 a year, then I pay -- taking 10% out of my butt -- $10,000 in taxes. I think I was at 40K gross last year, so I'd pay $4K in taxes. But I wouldn't have to file, because it would be withheld from my paycheck. And it is done. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
BZZZT, WRONG. Competition will result in lower prices. If company A no longer h as to pay the embedded tax, they can lower their price by x amount, so they will them be cheaper than company B. Soon, company B will also lower their price as well to keep up. Luther wrote: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:05:45 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but you see, all the embedded taxes that are added to items now would go away, so the price on the shelf would actually go down roughly the same amount as the fair tax, so you really are paying the same amount now as you would be if we had the fair tax, except you would get to keep all your paycheck. Businesses would locate here instead of overseas, would be a win win for everyone. Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Actually, its 23%, no other federal income tax etc, no more irs. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer Luther wrote: Abolish income tax and charge a 20% across the board tax on everything that is non-food and non-clothing. Luther On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:18:06 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should REALLY study the fair tax, a flat tax just does not make sense when the fair tax is a much better plan. It is by far the most heavily studied and researched tax plan. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
oh well, with the growth in other areas, they can get other jobs. Donald Snook wrote: John wrote: For all the people who complain about taxes losing other people jobs (increased taxes on the rich - one less condo - condo industry going down - construction workers etc losing jobs) nobody seems too concerned about all the folks at the IRS losing their jobs. Don't forget the accountants, tax lawyers, HR Block People, regulators, state tax agencies, people who write the books on taxes, tax Law Professors, the software designers for Tax cut, the companies who supply the paper, pens, office chairs, light bulbs, coffee filters to the IRS. Millions of people would be out of a job and the companies who sell to the government would be wiped out. Donald H. Snook 1997 Ford Explorer (For Sale) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Jim Cathey wrote: Doesn't make the job itself any less evil, consider the gas oven guards. We can change the jobs our society depends on to something a bit more productive and/or respectable. Comparing an IRS desk job to a guard job for the Holocaust is wrong by many orders of magnitude. Its reprehensible. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
What do you mean its the best game in town? Wonko the Sane wrote: Federal taxes should be no different than state sales tax at the register. But that is not my tax plan. Mine is x% of gross income. If I make (I wish!) $100,000 a year, then I pay -- taking 10% out of my butt -- $10,000 in taxes. I think I was at 40K gross last year, so I'd pay $4K in taxes. But I wouldn't have to file, because it would be withheld from my paycheck. And it is done. It is indeed regressive, but the best game in town. On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand that the folks we love to hate (i.e., the IRS) are just 9 to 5 folks who have a job. And they are just doing their job. Doesn't make the job itself any less evil, consider the gas oven guards. We can change the jobs our society depends on to something a bit more productive and/or respectable. Our present system does not have all the desired characteristics, and in fact fosters a lot of crime, resentment, deceit, and waste; a big change is warranted. I could buy into a transitional phase-in, with a fairly rigid timetable. (No slacking off.) I could buy into something even better than a flat tax, I was just figuring that it would be easier to actually implement. Baby steps, in other words. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
You can live that fairy tale, but this is the real world. Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:27:41 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BZZZT, WRONG. Competition will result in lower prices. If company A no longer h as to pay the embedded tax, they can lower their price by x amount, so they will them be cheaper than company B. Soon, company B will also lower their price as well to keep up. Luther wrote: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
So you do not believe in a free market? Luther wrote: You can live that fairy tale, but this is the real world. Luther On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:27:41 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BZZZT, WRONG. Competition will result in lower prices. If company A no longer h as to pay the embedded tax, they can lower their price by x amount, so they will them be cheaper than company B. Soon, company B will also lower their price as well to keep up. Luther wrote: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Comparing an IRS desk job to a guard job for the Holocaust is wrong by many orders of magnitude. Its reprehensible. That's what makes it such a useful rhetorical tool, the orders of magnitude of difference point out what's wrong with the I'm only doing my job argument. Not reprehensible at all. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. Do the other Democrats know you feel this way? Have they tried to kick you out of their tree house yet? ;) Seriously, I've never heard anyone else who was a self-described liberal support a flat tax. Quite the opposite---it's usually the pet project of people who are unabashedly in the pocket of big business (e.g. Steve Forbes). Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, I paid thousands this year in taxes while some really rich folks found loopholes and paid pretty much nothing. This is a nice fantasy, but the reality is that the wealthy pay the overwhelming lions share of income taxes in this country. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. I could support a flat tax. Ideally the government should not be playing social engineering games with tax policy by granting deductions and credits for behaviors they want to encourage. Let people make financial decisions without complicating them with tax consequences. I believe people who have run the numbers have concluded that it would have to be a lot more than 5% though. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
They pay the overwhelming lions share based on percentage of income. In other words, they pay far more per dollar than we do because of their tax bracket. But the bulk of the tax dollars are collected from the lower middle classes. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:13 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, I paid thousands this year in taxes while some really rich folks found loopholes and paid pretty much nothing. This is a nice fantasy, but the reality is that the wealthy pay the overwhelming lions share of income taxes in this country. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: They pay the overwhelming lions share based on percentage of income. In other words, they pay far more per dollar than we do because of their tax bracket. But the bulk of the tax dollars are collected from the lower middle classes. I guess we need to define what lower and middle classes are in terms of income .. charts I've seen show that the bottom 50% of wage earners pay less than 5% of the taxes. The top one percent pay nearly 40% of the taxes. Note we're talking about income taxes, when you add in state, local, property, sales, unemployment, social security, medicare, yadda yadda and all the other fees and taxes I can see where that might skew things downwards. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Not surely. (Nobody earning 20k a year can afford heart medicine at all. [And why is it always heart medicine in the example? It's just as likely to be beer that is forgone.]) That line of argument has been proven to result in severely 'progressive' taxation, such as the 90+% rates that have been seen for the 'rich' in the past. (Rich being defined as anyone making just enough more than the median income of voters, and/or anyone _thought_ to be able to have a condo in Tahoe or a Bentley.) The trouble with that is that it is an extreme DIS-incentive for those proven productive to become more productive. Want a Bentley? Want to have to work several times harder to get one than your not-so-rich neighbor? No? Then don't bother, and who suffers? Bentley, for example. And anyone who works there, such as the production line laborers. Or else the 'rich' leave the country, or at least move their business off to more friendly climes. An interesting thing about luxury goods is that they are often very labor-intensive. Anyone notice what happened to the Eastern US yacht-building industry when the oh-so-progressive luxury tax was first applied a few years ago? Tax those rich, yes sir, and put a lot of laborers right out on the street. I'm in favor of a flat-rate tax system. It's extremely fair. Nobody can bitch about it, unless they've already been taught that because they are 'poorer' they are more 'special'. You want to see righteous anger, see how society would treat the rich that tried to squirm out of their 5% (or whatever) taxes. You make a dollar, give a nickel to Uncle Sam. You make a million, give him $50,000. Your 'poor' guy smokes a few less cigarettes, your 'rich' guy buys one less car. But _both_ of them keep most of what they earn, and if human nature stays constant, later spend most of that. (And that's the big win in this scenario.) I could perhaps be talked into a poverty-level exemption, below which there were no taxes, but that would open up the game to endlessly moving that line around (upwards, I'd imagine), and it would place a huge barrier (or an incentive to deception) at the point where you rose above the line. It would have to be set at a level that was truly poverty, such that NOBODY would want to stay on the low side of it. And I think little enough of human nature that it wouldn't stay there long. Best to set a flat rate and be done with it. You change the rate and it affects EVERYBODY, none of that BS about voting a tax change for somebody else. (And that's the truly evil part of our system today.) A flat tax system is a unifying influence, instead of a divisive one. Our society could use a few more of those, it seems. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Allan, I could be wrong, but research the numbers behind the chart. I read some research a while ago that explained that the bottom 50% of the wage earners pay less than 5% of their earnings in taxes and this agrees with your statement. But the bulk of the entire tax bill was paid by the same wage earners. This works because for every rich person, there are hundreds of working class folks. In other words, they are getting a dollar from me, a dollar from you, a dollar from every other wage earner and $10 from the rich guy up the street. He's paying a much higher percentage in taxes than we are but all of our dollars go into a much larger pile of money than his $10. This isn't system out of balance, neither is it wrong. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:31 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: They pay the overwhelming lions share based on percentage of income. In other words, they pay far more per dollar than we do because of their tax bracket. But the bulk of the tax dollars are collected from the lower middle classes. I guess we need to define what lower and middle classes are in terms of income .. charts I've seen show that the bottom 50% of wage earners pay less than 5% of the taxes. The top one percent pay nearly 40% of the taxes. Note we're talking about income taxes, when you add in state, local, property, sales, unemployment, social security, medicare, yadda yadda and all the other fees and taxes I can see where that might skew things downwards. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
But the bulk of the tax dollars are collected from the lower middle classes. Is that not fair? That's the bulk of the people, and presumably where the bulk of benefits reaped from taxation are seen. Or are we proposing that there be 'tax slaves'? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Tom wrote: โ80% of the tax burden is on the working class. Why? Because so much of our population is working class.โ I think you are wrong about that Tom. According to the Office of Tax Analysis the income tax is highly progressive According to the most recent data available: โthe top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this groupโs tax share has grown faster than their income share. Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.โ Since the Bush tax cuts the following has happened: The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers fell from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent. The share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent of taxpayers will rose from 32.3 percent to 33.7 percent. The average tax rate for the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers fell by 27 percent as compared to a 13 percent decline for taxpayers in the top 1 percent. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe It might be a big deal for the carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc. who build condos in Tahoe... and the interior decorators, the housekeepers, etc. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Donald, Please do not confuse this forum with facts ;-) Pete, who is in the middle somewhere and trying to improve his position. -- Original message -- From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom wrote: รขยย80% of the tax burden is on the working class. Why? Because so much of our population is working class.รขยย I think you are wrong about that Tom. According to the Office of Tax Analysis the income tax is highly progressive According to the most recent data available: รขยยthe top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this groupรขยยs tax share has grown faster than their income share. Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.รขยย Since the Bush tax cuts the following has happened: The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers fell from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent. The share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent of taxpayers will rose from 32.3 percent to 33.7 percent. The average tax rate for the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers fell by 27 percent as compared to a 13 percent decline for taxpayers in the top 1 percent. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Donald Snook wrote: The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. This would be the people that Wonko says don't pay any taxes. He's been involved in Demoncrat party politics long enough that I'm surprised he still believes their lies. They are just trying to stir up hate against a scapegoat (people who have made a better life for themselves) to deflect attention away from themselves. Just like the Repugnant party stirring up wars against drugs, terrorists, whatever, every tyrant needs a scapegoat. In picking on a group of successful countrymen for their scapegoat, the Demoncrats have more in common with Hitler's National Socialists than the the Bush administration does. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Jim Cathey wrote: I could perhaps be talked into a poverty-level exemption, below which there were no taxes, but that would open up the game to endlessly moving that line around (upwards, I'd imagine), and it would place a huge barrier (or an incentive to deception) at the point where you rose above the line. It would have to be set at a level that was truly poverty, such that NOBODY would want to stay on the low side of it. And I think little enough of human nature that it wouldn't stay there long. Best to set a flat rate and be done with it. You change the rate and it affects EVERYBODY, none of that BS about voting a tax change for somebody else. (And that's the truly evil part of our system today.) I think the poverty level today is defined pretty reasonably... its $14k a year for a family of two. The high level approach they use to get to that number is the threshold below which families or individuals are considered to be lacking the resources to meet the basic needs for healthy living; having insufficient income to provide the food, shelter and clothing needed to preserve health. Sounds reasonable to me, and that is certainly something that will change over time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States I think what you were getting at is you are apposed to a relative poverty measure for taxes, and would prefer an absolute poverty measure. On this I would have to agree... otherwise you get into the problem of it bouncing around often and decided by the electorate instead of math/data/statistics. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
How would it affect anything? All the taxes we pay go into the big cesspool of WaDC and aren't spent according to their earmark. Fuel taxes, social security, education dollars, etc... I don't see a difference, our roads are still horrible Asphalt was never ment for traffic. Luther On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:34:18 -0500, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a big McCain fan but dropping gasoline taxes is a very bad idea. Federal fuel taxes are used to keep the interstate highways in repair to build new highways. Drop fuel taxes and the funds have to come from somewhere else. So, where should they pull the replacement funds from - Social Security? Or maybe they should not pull from anywhere else and further increase the federal debt? This is just a carefully crafted ploy to grab the public's attention. I seriously doubt that the Federal government can afford to drop fuel taxes for a summer. I'm still a McCain fan - I just understand that he is a Politician. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
My dream world is a flat tax AND abolish Social Security. How about that for an economic stimulus package? Everyone in the nation could receive a 14% raise. Then require that they invest at least 7% of their income into an approved 401K like fund and they can do as they please with the rest. Obviously, some employers would be greedy and not give their employees the extra 7%, they're just buttheads... Personally, I already invest 8% of my own income in a 401K (employer matches an aditional 4%) and would LOVE the extra from SS. I would increase my investment to 15% or more if given my SS$$ back. This doesn't include aditional monthly/quarterly investments for retirement/savings. Luther On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:52:14 -0500, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, I paid thousands this year in taxes while some really rich folks found loopholes and paid pretty much nothing. I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Not surely. Actually I agree... I was just trying to throw IA Don a bone to encourage him to explain his position in more detail. [long pro-minimal-flat-tax argument snipped] Jim, you make very good points, although I'm not sure what a flat tax would give us that total abolition of the income tax and its replacement by direct use taxes wouldn't, and more fairly on the whole, by much the same argument. (Want to drive on public roads? Pay a toll proportional to use, maybe in the form of a gas tax earmarked for road maintenance and nothing else. Send your kids to public school? Pay tuition. Need help from the rest of society, because you can't afford the above or any other public service? You'll depend not on the government but on private charities funded voluntarily by the generosity of the many people who will be making more money than you once the income tax is abolished.) Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
The fair tax solves all those problems. The people who pay in are those who spend more of their money. The rich are going to spend more than a poorer person. And with that plan, all the illegals, people who make their money under the table, and people visiting from overseas will pay in, now they do not. Alex Chamberlain wrote: On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. Do the other Democrats know you feel this way? Have they tried to kick you out of their tree house yet? ;) Seriously, I've never heard anyone else who was a self-described liberal support a flat tax. Quite the opposite---it's usually the pet project of people who are unabashedly in the pocket of big business (e.g. Steve Forbes). Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
you should REALLY study the fair tax, a flat tax just does not make sense when the fair tax is a much better plan. It is by far the most heavily studied and researched tax plan. Luther wrote: My dream world is a flat tax AND abolish Social Security. How about that for an economic stimulus package? Everyone in the nation could receive a 14% raise. Then require that they invest at least 7% of their income into an approved 401K like fund and they can do as they please with the rest. Obviously, some employers would be greedy and not give their employees the extra 7%, they're just buttheads... Personally, I already invest 8% of my own income in a 401K (employer matches an aditional 4%) and would LOVE the extra from SS. I would increase my investment to 15% or more if given my SS$$ back. This doesn't include aditional monthly/quarterly investments for retirement/savings. Luther On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:52:14 -0500, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, I paid thousands this year in taxes while some really rich folks found loopholes and paid pretty much nothing. I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
As a self described liberal who supports a flat tax, you need to look at it more closely. There is a rebate of the tax for the $$ amount of the federal poverty level. If you make no more than that [and hence spend no more than that] you really are not paying any tax as the tax on necessities has already been given to you and everyone else [a prebate, if you want to use the term]. Tax is collected only on final consumer sales, so personal, corporate and business to business sales are tax free. No more IRS, no more inheritance tax, no more tax of any kind except for a tax on a sale to the consumer. Buy a lot, you pay a lot of tax; buy a little, you pay little tax. I suspect many of our corporations who have moved offshore would return, and there would be no advantage to setting up an account offshore as there is no tax here. No tax loopholes, no tax shelters. I am sure there would be some problems with it, but compared to what we have now it should be less. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. Do the other Democrats know you feel this way? Have they tried to kick you out of their tree house yet? ;) Seriously, I've never heard anyone else who was a self-described liberal support a flat tax. Quite the opposite---it's usually the pet project of people who are unabashedly in the pocket of big business (e.g. Steve Forbes). Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
What you are talking about sounds like the fair tax, not the flat tax. With the fair tax, everyone gets a prebate on necessary items purchases, based of family size. Bill R wrote: As a self described liberal who supports a flat tax, you need to look at it more closely. There is a rebate of the tax for the $$ amount of the federal poverty level. If you make no more than that [and hence spend no more than that] you really are not paying any tax as the tax on necessities has already been given to you and everyone else [a prebate, if you want to use the term]. Tax is collected only on final consumer sales, so personal, corporate and business to business sales are tax free. No more IRS, no more inheritance tax, no more tax of any kind except for a tax on a sale to the consumer. Buy a lot, you pay a lot of tax; buy a little, you pay little tax. I suspect many of our corporations who have moved offshore would return, and there would be no advantage to setting up an account offshore as there is no tax here. No tax loopholes, no tax shelters. I am sure there would be some problems with it, but compared to what we have now it should be less. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. Do the other Democrats know you feel this way? Have they tried to kick you out of their tree house yet? ;) Seriously, I've never heard anyone else who was a self-described liberal support a flat tax. Quite the opposite---it's usually the pet project of people who are unabashedly in the pocket of big business (e.g. Steve Forbes). Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Abolish income tax and charge a 20% across the board tax on everything that is non-food and non-clothing. Luther On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:18:06 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should REALLY study the fair tax, a flat tax just does not make sense when the fair tax is a much better plan. It is by far the most heavily studied and researched tax plan. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
SLAPS SELF ON FORHEAD. Thanks Kaleb - Yes, I have been talking about the Fair Tax proposal for long enough that I forget there is also a flat tax idea. That one I am not for, the Fair Tax proposal I would support. BTW - Taken apart any decent 126 front seats lately? I still need that spring set for the seat, and the other stuff if you have it. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes What you are talking about sounds like the fair tax, not the flat tax. With the fair tax, everyone gets a prebate on necessary items purchases, based of family size. Bill R wrote: As a self described liberal who supports a flat tax, you need to look at it more closely. There is a rebate of the tax for the $$ amount of the federal poverty level. If you make no more than that [and hence spend no more than that] you really are not paying any tax as the tax on necessities has already been given to you and everyone else [a prebate, if you want to use the term]. Tax is collected only on final consumer sales, so personal, corporate and business to business sales are tax free. No more IRS, no more inheritance tax, no more tax of any kind except for a tax on a sale to the consumer. Buy a lot, you pay a lot of tax; buy a little, you pay little tax. I suspect many of our corporations who have moved offshore would return, and there would be no advantage to setting up an account offshore as there is no tax here. No tax loopholes, no tax shelters. I am sure there would be some problems with it, but compared to what we have now it should be less. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. Do the other Democrats know you feel this way? Have they tried to kick you out of their tree house yet? ;) Seriously, I've never heard anyone else who was a self-described liberal support a flat tax. Quite the opposite---it's usually the pet project of people who are unabashedly in the pocket of big business (e.g. Steve Forbes). Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Actually, its 23%, no other federal income tax etc, no more irs. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer Luther wrote: Abolish income tax and charge a 20% across the board tax on everything that is non-food and non-clothing. Luther On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:18:06 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should REALLY study the fair tax, a flat tax just does not make sense when the fair tax is a much better plan. It is by far the most heavily studied and researched tax plan. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I have you on my list, dont worry, but no I still do not have one yet Bill R wrote: SLAPS SELF ON FORHEAD. Thanks Kaleb - Yes, I have been talking about the Fair Tax proposal for long enough that I forget there is also a flat tax idea. That one I am not for, the Fair Tax proposal I would support. BTW - Taken apart any decent 126 front seats lately? I still need that spring set for the seat, and the other stuff if you have it. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes What you are talking about sounds like the fair tax, not the flat tax. With the fair tax, everyone gets a prebate on necessary items purchases, based of family size. Bill R wrote: As a self described liberal who supports a flat tax, you need to look at it more closely. There is a rebate of the tax for the $$ amount of the federal poverty level. If you make no more than that [and hence spend no more than that] you really are not paying any tax as the tax on necessities has already been given to you and everyone else [a prebate, if you want to use the term]. Tax is collected only on final consumer sales, so personal, corporate and business to business sales are tax free. No more IRS, no more inheritance tax, no more tax of any kind except for a tax on a sale to the consumer. Buy a lot, you pay a lot of tax; buy a little, you pay little tax. I suspect many of our corporations who have moved offshore would return, and there would be no advantage to setting up an account offshore as there is no tax here. No tax loopholes, no tax shelters. I am sure there would be some problems with it, but compared to what we have now it should be less. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. Do the other Democrats know you feel this way? Have they tried to kick you out of their tree house yet? ;) Seriously, I've never heard anyone else who was a self-described liberal support a flat tax. Quite the opposite---it's usually the pet project of people who are unabashedly in the pocket of big business (e.g. Steve Forbes). Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
but you see, all the embedded taxes that are added to items now would go away, so the price on the shelf would actually go down roughly the same amount as the fair tax, so you really are paying the same amount now as you would be if we had the fair tax, except you would get to keep all your paycheck. Businesses would locate here instead of overseas, would be a win win for everyone. Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Actually, its 23%, no other federal income tax etc, no more irs. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer Luther wrote: Abolish income tax and charge a 20% across the board tax on everything that is non-food and non-clothing. Luther On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:18:06 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should REALLY study the fair tax, a flat tax just does not make sense when the fair tax is a much better plan. It is by far the most heavily studied and researched tax plan. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
no more IRS should save nearly a billion in salaries each year. :D Luther On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:01:59 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, its 23%, no other federal income tax etc, no more irs. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer Luther wrote: Abolish income tax and charge a 20% across the board tax on everything that is non-food and non-clothing. Luther On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:18:06 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should REALLY study the fair tax, a flat tax just does not make sense when the fair tax is a much better plan. It is by far the most heavily studied and researched tax plan. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
OK, thanks. I will continue to eagerly await my turn. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 4:03 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes I have you on my list, dont worry, but no I still do not have one yet Bill R wrote: SLAPS SELF ON FORHEAD. Thanks Kaleb - Yes, I have been talking about the Fair Tax proposal for long enough that I forget there is also a flat tax idea. That one I am not for, the Fair Tax proposal I would support. BTW - Taken apart any decent 126 front seats lately? I still need that spring set for the seat, and the other stuff if you have it. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes What you are talking about sounds like the fair tax, not the flat tax. With the fair tax, everyone gets a prebate on necessary items purchases, based of family size. Bill R wrote: As a self described liberal who supports a flat tax, you need to look at it more closely. There is a rebate of the tax for the $$ amount of the federal poverty level. If you make no more than that [and hence spend no more than that] you really are not paying any tax as the tax on necessities has already been given to you and everyone else [a prebate, if you want to use the term]. Tax is collected only on final consumer sales, so personal, corporate and business to business sales are tax free. No more IRS, no more inheritance tax, no more tax of any kind except for a tax on a sale to the consumer. Buy a lot, you pay a lot of tax; buy a little, you pay little tax. I suspect many of our corporations who have moved offshore would return, and there would be no advantage to setting up an account offshore as there is no tax here. No tax loopholes, no tax shelters. I am sure there would be some problems with it, but compared to what we have now it should be less. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. Do the other Democrats know you feel this way? Have they tried to kick you out of their tree house yet? ;) Seriously, I've never heard anyone else who was a self-described liberal support a flat tax. Quite the opposite---it's usually the pet project of people who are unabashedly in the pocket of big business (e.g. Steve Forbes). Isn't a flat tax as regressive as you can get (short of charging a percentage inversely proportional to income)? It hits the poor a lot harder than the rich, surely. In your example above, 5% of $10,000,000 means one less condo in Lake Tahoe, new Bentley for the mistress, or splurge in Vegas... big deal. But 5% of $20K means Grandma doesn't get her heart medicine, or the kids don't get new winter coats. BIG deal. Alex Chamberlain ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:05:45 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but you see, all the embedded taxes that are added to items now would go away, so the price on the shelf would actually go down roughly the same amount as the fair tax, so you really are paying the same amount now as you would be if we had the fair tax, except you would get to keep all your paycheck. Businesses would locate here instead of overseas, would be a win win for everyone. Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Actually, its 23%, no other federal income tax etc, no more irs. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer Luther wrote: Abolish income tax and charge a 20% across the board tax on everything that is non-food and non-clothing. Luther On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:18:06 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should REALLY study the fair tax, a flat tax just does not make sense when the fair tax is a much better plan. It is by far the most heavily studied and researched tax plan. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Luther wrote: no more IRS should save nearly a billion in salaries each year. :D For all the people who complain about taxes losing other people jobs (increased taxes on the rich - one less condo - condo industry going down - construction workers etc losing jobs) nobody seems too concerned about all the folks at the IRS losing their jobs. Just an observation (not trying to make a point... just noticing) John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: HAHAHAHA. That is BS. Do you really think large companies like Wal-Fart will lower their prices when they know that people will pay them? Hell no, that's potential profit lost. Sheesh. If they did not, someone else would. That's competition. I'm not sure I buy into the premise that a 23% sales tax would result in LOWER prices at the retail cash register though. But I have to admit I have not studied the plan -- certainly the elimination of all the corporate income and employment taxes at the manufacturer, wholesaler, and distributor would have some effect. I doubt it'll never happen, so we'll probably never find out. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Luther wrote: no more IRS should save nearly a billion in salaries each year. :D For all the people who complain about taxes losing other people jobs (increased taxes on the rich - one less condo - condo industry going down - construction workers etc losing jobs) nobody seems too concerned about all the folks at the IRS losing their jobs. Just an observation (not trying to make a point... just noticing) First of all, there would have to be some form of IRS remaining to enforce the collection of this new tax. As described, it would be a much smaller IRS. And you're right, too bad about the folks losing their jobs. I never get an apology from them when they take my money. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
John wrote: For all the people who complain about taxes losing other people jobs (increased taxes on the rich - one less condo - condo industry going down - construction workers etc losing jobs) nobody seems too concerned about all the folks at the IRS losing their jobs. Don't forget the accountants, tax lawyers, HR Block People, regulators, state tax agencies, people who write the books on taxes, tax Law Professors, the software designers for Tax cut, the companies who supply the paper, pens, office chairs, light bulbs, coffee filters to the IRS. Millions of people would be out of a job and the companies who sell to the government would be wiped out. Donald H. Snook 1997 Ford Explorer (For Sale) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
So, you are suggesting that we place even more of the tax burden on the rich? England did that, so does India. Why do you think so many of our Physicians are from those two countries. Capitolism works because those of us who are motivated and fotunate enough to excel are rewarded. Take peoples motivation to excel, for example - through excessive taxtation, and you will only drive these people to leave or rebel. That's what the American revolution was all about! Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/16/08 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes But the bulk of the tax dollars are collected from the lower middle classes. Is that not fair? That's the bulk of the people, and presumably where the bulk of benefits reaped from taxation are seen. Or are we proposing that there be 'tax slaves'? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I will hire some to work with me. That is if they don't mind working with the challenged instead of having a plush job in DC (don't argue with me, I used to work in DC). I make $14 an hour, so as my employee they will have to make less. They might have to change an adult diaper and can expect to be bit, spit on, and cussed out on a weekly basis. (Thank God it isn't a daily basis.) Given what the IRS folks have been doing for a living, perhaps hooker would be a good career choice. Yea, I know, they are just normal folks going to work. That is the problem with complaining about the government. Having spent a decade living in the DC suburbs, I understand that the folks we love to hate (i.e., the IRS) are just 9 to 5 folks who have a job. And they are just doing their job. D. On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:14 PM, John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For all the people who complain about taxes losing other people jobs (increased taxes on the rich - one less condo - condo industry going down - construction workers etc losing jobs) nobody seems too concerned about all the folks at the IRS losing their jobs. Just an observation (not trying to make a point... just noticing) John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I understand that the folks we love to hate (i.e., the IRS) are just 9 to 5 folks who have a job. And they are just doing their job. Doesn't make the job itself any less evil, consider the gas oven guards. We can change the jobs our society depends on to something a bit more productive and/or respectable. Our present system does not have all the desired characteristics, and in fact fosters a lot of crime, resentment, deceit, and waste; a big change is warranted. I could buy into a transitional phase-in, with a fairly rigid timetable. (No slacking off.) I could buy into something even better than a flat tax, I was just figuring that it would be easier to actually implement. Baby steps, in other words. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
You'll depend not on the government but on private charities funded voluntarily by the generosity of the many people who will be making more money than you once the income tax is abolished.) That's what I want. Private charities don't perpetuate themselves at the point of a gun. If they don't work, they die, at least in the presence of a free press that's not a hired-out propaganda mill. Governments tend to hang on until people get fed up enough to violently overthrow them, then people die. That's much worse, it'd be nice to be smarter than that. That's the system the FF's tried to set up. People that don't feel oppressed tend to be more charitable, I think it could work. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Federal taxes should be no different than state sales tax at the register. But that is not my tax plan. Mine is x% of gross income. If I make (I wish!) $100,000 a year, then I pay -- taking 10% out of my butt -- $10,000 in taxes. I think I was at 40K gross last year, so I'd pay $4K in taxes. But I wouldn't have to file, because it would be withheld from my paycheck. And it is done. It is indeed regressive, but the best game in town. On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand that the folks we love to hate (i.e., the IRS) are just 9 to 5 folks who have a job. And they are just doing their job. Doesn't make the job itself any less evil, consider the gas oven guards. We can change the jobs our society depends on to something a bit more productive and/or respectable. Our present system does not have all the desired characteristics, and in fact fosters a lot of crime, resentment, deceit, and waste; a big change is warranted. I could buy into a transitional phase-in, with a fairly rigid timetable. (No slacking off.) I could buy into something even better than a flat tax, I was just figuring that it would be easier to actually implement. Baby steps, in other words. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
About time for a new American revolution. We need to nominate new people, maybe new parties, and throw the bums out and sunset every law on the books so we can start with a clean slate. Go back to original intent, restrict the Federal system to enumerated powers and get out of the nanny business. oh, and repeal a few amendments. Like the 16th for instance. Osama Obama is right about one thing, the natives are restless, but he doesn't understand that it is because we are already overworked and overtaxes, and we have too many freeloaders, including politicians like him. The LAST thing we want are massive tax increases. At 05:22 PM 4/16/2008, you wrote: So, you are suggesting that we place even more of the tax burden on the rich? England did that, so does India. Why do you think so many of our Physicians are from those two countries. Capitolism works because those of us who are motivated and fotunate enough to excel are rewarded. Take peoples motivation to excel, for example - through excessive taxtation, and you will only drive these people to leave or rebel. That's what the American revolution was all about! Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/16/08 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes But the bulk of the tax dollars are collected from the lower middle classes. Is that not fair? That's the bulk of the people, and presumably where the bulk of benefits reaped from taxation are seen. Or are we proposing that there be 'tax slaves'? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008 6:10 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
well said! You must have been reading my thoughts as was writing my post. At 09:34 PM 4/16/2008, you wrote: I understand that the folks we love to hate (i.e., the IRS) are just 9 to 5 folks who have a job. And they are just doing their job. Doesn't make the job itself any less evil, consider the gas oven guards. We can change the jobs our society depends on to something a bit more productive and/or respectable. Our present system does not have all the desired characteristics, and in fact fosters a lot of crime, resentment, deceit, and waste; a big change is warranted. I could buy into a transitional phase-in, with a fairly rigid timetable. (No slacking off.) I could buy into something even better than a flat tax, I was just figuring that it would be easier to actually implement. Baby steps, in other words. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
That sounds OK for a guy on a salary or working hourly but how do you figure it out for a business where you have to pay for materials and labor etc. Barry But that is not my tax plan. Mine is x% of gross income. If I make (I wish!) $100,000 a year, then I pay -- taking 10% out of my butt -- $10,000 in taxes. I think I was at 40K gross last year, so I'd pay $4K in taxes. But I wouldn't have to file, because it would be withheld from my paycheck. And it is done. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Donald Snook wrote: PITTSBURGH (AP) - John McCain wants the federal government to free people from paying gasoline taxes this summer Sounds like a cure. If demand starts outstripping supply of a commodity, then subsizing consumption should even the balance, eh? [/sarcasm] Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
PITTSBURGH (AP) - John McCain wants the federal government to free people from paying gasoline taxes this summer and ensure that college students can secure loans this fall, a pair of proposals aimed at stemming pain from the country's troubled economy. At the same time, the certain Republican presidential nominee says Democratic rivals Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton would impose the single largest tax increase since World War II by allowing tax cuts pushed to passage by President Bush to expire. Both promise big 'change.' And a trillion dollars in new taxes over the next decade would certainly fit that description, McCain said in remarks prepared for delivery Tuesday. All these tax increases are the fine print under the slogan of 'hope:' They're going to raise your taxes by thousands of dollars per year - and they have the audacity to hope you don't mind. That was a play on the title of an Obama book. Here's the rest of the article: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080415/D90289D01.html Donald H. Snook 1997 Ford Explorer 4X4 115,000 miles (For Sale) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Sounds like a cure. If demand starts outstripping supply of a commodity, then subsizing consumption should even the balance, eh? [/sarcasm] I think it is more oil market speculation, rather than demand, that is driving the price of a barrel of oil up. As far as the price of a barrel of crude going up today and the price of a gallon of gas going up simultaneously, the oil companies do it, simply because they can. Caveats, YMMV My 2ยข Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
I'm a big McCain fan but dropping gasoline taxes is a very bad idea. Federal fuel taxes are used to keep the interstate highways in repair to build new highways. Drop fuel taxes and the funds have to come from somewhere else. So, where should they pull the replacement funds from - Social Security? Or maybe they should not pull from anywhere else and further increase the federal debt? This is just a carefully crafted ploy to grab the public's attention. I seriously doubt that the Federal government can afford to drop fuel taxes for a summer. I'm still a McCain fan - I just understand that he is a Politician. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Donald Snook Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:21 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes PITTSBURGH (AP) - John McCain wants the federal government to free people from paying gasoline taxes this summer and ensure that college students can secure loans this fall, a pair of proposals aimed at stemming pain from the country's troubled economy. At the same time, the certain Republican presidential nominee says Democratic rivals Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton would impose the single largest tax increase since World War II by allowing tax cuts pushed to passage by President Bush to expire. Both promise big 'change.' And a trillion dollars in new taxes over the next decade would certainly fit that description, McCain said in remarks prepared for delivery Tuesday. All these tax increases are the fine print under the slogan of 'hope:' They're going to raise your taxes by thousands of dollars per year - and they have the audacity to hope you don't mind. That was a play on the title of an Obama book. Here's the rest of the article: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080415/D90289D01.html Donald H. Snook 1997 Ford Explorer 4X4 115,000 miles (For Sale) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Regarding a break in fuel taxes, Tom Hargrove wrote: So, where should they pull the replacement funds from - Social Security? Or maybe they should not pull from anywhere else and further increase the federal debt? This is just a carefully crafted ploy to grab the public's attention. I seriously doubt that the Federal government can afford to drop fuel taxes for a summer. He could sell the strategic petroleum reserves. Clinton did that one year when he wanted to show that he had balanced the budget. He sold the whole reserve put nearly a billion dollars in the federal coffers and then started building up the reserve the next day. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
He could sell the strategic petroleum reserves. Clinton did that one year when he wanted to show that he had balanced the budget. He sold the whole reserve put nearly a billion dollars in the federal coffers and then started building up the reserve the next day. I wish I could do this with my finances. But wait, Americans to this every day. Isn't this the same as refinancing your mortgage or taking out a second mortgage on your house even when you really can't afford to? Isn't this part of what got our economy in trouble? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Donald Snook Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Regarding a break in fuel taxes, Tom Hargrove wrote: So, where should they pull the replacement funds from - Social Security? Or maybe they should not pull from anywhere else and further increase the federal debt? This is just a carefully crafted ploy to grab the public's attention. I seriously doubt that the Federal government can afford to drop fuel taxes for a summer. He could sell the strategic petroleum reserves. Clinton did that one year when he wanted to show that he had balanced the budget. He sold the whole reserve put nearly a billion dollars in the federal coffers and then started building up the reserve the next day. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Donald Snook wrote: He could sell the strategic petroleum reserves. Clinton did that one year when he wanted to show that he had balanced the budget. He sold the whole reserve put nearly a billion dollars in the federal coffers and then started building up the reserve the next day. One billion dollars isn't all that much... http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/summarytables.html John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Populist politics never work in the long term, better off to slash taxes on fuel efficient cars to reduce demand and get Mom out of the monster truck. Hendrik who likes his 300TE everywhere except at the servo Mitch Haley wrote: Donald Snook wrote: PITTSBURGH (AP) - John McCain wants the federal government to free people from paying gasoline taxes this summer Sounds like a cure. If demand starts outstripping supply of a commodity, then subsizing consumption should even the balance, eh? [/sarcasm] Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Populist politics never work in the long term, better off to slash taxes on fuel efficient cars to reduce demand and get Mom out of the monster truck. I was thinking that would also make more sense, though there's already some evidence that places that have successfully reduced demand for gasoline are now having to RAISE gas taxes to offset the reduced revenue. Bottom line, governments are almost never able to manage the marketplace better than it manages itself. I'm not even sure that almost qualifier is valid. Every time it is tried, it just makes matters worse, or delays recovery from the problem it was trying to solve. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, I paid thousands this year in taxes while some really rich folks found loopholes and paid pretty much nothing. I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PITTSBURGH (AP) - John McCain wants the federal government to free people from paying gasoline taxes this summer and ensure that college students can secure loans this fall, a pair of proposals aimed at stemming pain from the country's troubled economy. he At the same time, the certain Republican presidential nominee says Democratic rivals Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton would impose the single largest tax increase since World War II by allowing tax cuts pushed to passage by President Bush to expire. Both promise big 'change.' And a trillion dollars in new taxes over the next decade would certainly fit that description, McCain said in remarks prepared for delivery Tuesday. All these tax increases are the fine print under the slogan of 'hope:' They're going to raise your taxes by thousands of dollars per year - and they have the audacity to hope you don't mind. That was a play on the title of an Obama book. Here's the rest of the article: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080415/D90289D01.html Donald H. Snook 1997 Ford Explorer 4X4 115,000 miles (For Sale) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
The fairtax is the best plan out there. No need for a deduction when you do not pay income tax Wonko the Sane wrote: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, I paid thousands this year in taxes while some really rich folks found loopholes and paid pretty much nothing. I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PITTSBURGH (AP) - John McCain wants the federal government to free people from paying gasoline taxes this summer and ensure that college students can secure loans this fall, a pair of proposals aimed at stemming pain from the country's troubled economy. he At the same time, the certain Republican presidential nominee says Democratic rivals Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton would impose the single largest tax increase since World War II by allowing tax cuts pushed to passage by President Bush to expire. Both promise big 'change.' And a trillion dollars in new taxes over the next decade would certainly fit that description, McCain said in remarks prepared for delivery Tuesday. All these tax increases are the fine print under the slogan of 'hope:' They're going to raise your taxes by thousands of dollars per year - and they have the audacity to hope you don't mind. That was a play on the title of an Obama book. Here's the rest of the article: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080415/D90289D01.html Donald H. Snook 1997 Ford Explorer 4X4 115,000 miles (For Sale) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Wonko the Sane wrote: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, You'd be surprised what the rich people (at least the working rich) pay. I've done their tax returns. Couple of doctors, $300-350k income, $70-90k federal income tax, and that's with a couple of good accountants looking for every possible advantage. I paid thousands this year in taxes If you and Debbie can live on $30k a year, there's no need to pay any federal income tax. Take a look at form 8880. You can take the tuition and fees deduction to help get your AGI down to the magic $30k level. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
80% of the tax burden is on the working class. Why? Because so much of our population is working class. If the government were to double the taxes on the rich, the impact would be negligible. But make a huge difference in working class taxes, drop them by 20% for example, and there would be a huge negative impact on the federal budget. So much so that even taking all of the money from the rich would not cover the loss. In other words, don't look for any huge tax cuts from anyone in office. The Federal Government can't afford one! Same goes for the fair tax. Look real close and it's not so different from what we already have. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:21 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes Wonko the Sane wrote: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, You'd be surprised what the rich people (at least the working rich) pay. I've done their tax returns. Couple of doctors, $300-350k income, $70-90k federal income tax, and that's with a couple of good accountants looking for every possible advantage. I paid thousands this year in taxes If you and Debbie can live on $30k a year, there's no need to pay any federal income tax. Take a look at form 8880. You can take the tuition and fees deduction to help get your AGI down to the magic $30k level. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Yeah well I guess in private business if income is reduced then expenditure gets tightened. In government if income is reduced the amount of income is raised. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just say I want an extra 2 bucks an hour to offset the rise in living costs and guess what boss man there ain't a damm thing you can do about except cough up. Hendrik who knows there is a slight difference between government expenditure and government waste Allan Streib wrote: Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Populist politics never work in the long term, better off to slash taxes on fuel efficient cars to reduce demand and get Mom out of the monster truck. I was thinking that would also make more sense, though there's already some evidence that places that have successfully reduced demand for gasoline are now having to RAISE gas taxes to offset the reduced revenue. Bottom line, governments are almost never able to manage the marketplace better than it manages itself. I'm not even sure that almost qualifier is valid. Every time it is tried, it just makes matters worse, or delays recovery from the problem it was trying to solve. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
The way it works is that the rich invest their money to make more money and provide jobs for the people, what annoys me is when they use tax havens to waste their money. This is something that needs to be addressed, nothing wrong with giving someone a tax break if it goes back into the economy but if it goes offshore then it is not good. Hendrik Wonko the Sane wrote: Not exactly, Donald. Obama's plan would roll back the tax cuts on the wealthy (Dubya's friends) who pay a much lower percentage than I do as middle class, and probably, lower middle class, I paid thousands this year in taxes while some really rich folks found loopholes and paid pretty much nothing. I am all for a flat tax. I will give away my mortgage deduction (TurboTax always points to standard deduction anyway, so why be buying a house?) if everyone would pay x% of income (NO loopholes) in taxes. Let's say 5%. if you make $20K a year, you pay 5%. If you make $10,000,000 a year, you pay 5%. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: McCain proposes break in fuel taxes
Who would you rather have spending money to keep the country growing, someone who made a fortune by working hard and smart or a politician/bureaucrat who talks nice or learnt his/her management skills from a course. The old saying is that the rich are rich because they are best equipped to handle wealth. You give poor people more cash and it would be drunk, gambled or spend on non productive bling. Sorry that is the truth of the matter. Hendrik who is not saying all rich folk are good or poor people are wasters but is trying to balance the argument of taxes vs investments Tom Hargrave wrote: 80% of the tax burden is on the working class. Why? Because so much of our population is working class. If the government were to double the taxes on the rich, the impact would be negligible. But make a huge difference in working class taxes, drop them by 20% for example, and there would be a huge negative impact on the federal budget. So much so that even taking all of the money from the rich would not cover the loss. In other words, don't look for any huge tax cuts from anyone in office. The Federal Government can't afford one! Same goes for the fair tax. Look real close and it's not so different from what we already have. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
