Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:13 AM To: Jim Wooddell Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Two things: Many meteorites are heterogeneous. When we say Katol is L6 or NWA 869 is L3-6 or Almahata Sitta is an anomalous urelite, these are collective terms. Katol refers to everything that fell that day in India. It has been classified as L6. However, it is possible (and for Almahata Sitta, probable) that a given specimen does not representatively sample the incoming meteoroid. There is nothing wrong with saying that Almahata Sitta #25 is dominated by an H5 lithology or that Katol #4(?) is a metal rich lithology. Good practice would be to assign some kind of specimen number to each object and publish a catalog, so the world will always know what you are talking about. I would gladly publish such specimen tables in the MetBull database, especially if done systematically. As for the name question, NomCom would only give a separate name if there was significant doubt that a specimen was part of the Katol fall. This has happened before, as with Galim (b) and Zag (b), but it didn't happen with Almahata Sitta and I don't think there is much doubt in this case either. Jeff On 1/2/2014 9:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:13 AM To: Jim Wooddell Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Great discussion...Jeff, you preempted exactly what I was thinking...I would think such data added to classifications showing details of unusual lithologies and individuals within the general classification would be greatly appreciated by all. The variations within falls and finds always fascinate me. Graham On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: Two things: Many meteorites are heterogeneous. When we say Katol is L6 or NWA 869 is L3-6 or Almahata Sitta is an anomalous urelite, these are collective terms. Katol refers to everything that fell that day in India. It has been classified as L6. However, it is possible (and for Almahata Sitta, probable) that a given specimen does not representatively sample the incoming meteoroid. There is nothing wrong with saying that Almahata Sitta #25 is dominated by an H5 lithology or that Katol #4(?) is a metal rich lithology. Good practice would be to assign some kind of specimen number to each object and publish a catalog, so the world will always know what you are talking about. I would gladly publish such specimen tables in the MetBull database, especially if done systematically. As for the name question, NomCom would only give a separate name if there was significant doubt that a specimen was part of the Katol fall. This has happened before, as with Galim (b) and Zag (b), but it didn't happen with Almahata Sitta and I don't think there is much doubt in this case either. Jeff On 1/2/2014 9:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:13 AM To: Jim Wooddell Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It would be great if that were done at time of fall like for Sutter's Mill or Portales Valley. Katol was impossible since it was being collected by locals and most disappeared into the black hole of Calcutta. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:29 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hello Jeff and Graham, Exactly.but a step further. I would suggest going further than just saying what the lithology is. That was done in this case in the write up. Okay, so we have as an example Katol #4(?). If you say it has a metal rich lithologywhat is it? Everything past that is guess work and opinion if not studied. It's like calling all the lunars by one nameafter all it's only one moonas a gross example! Jim On 1/2/2014 7:49 AM, Graham Ensor wrote: Great discussion...Jeff, you preempted exactly what I was thinking...I would think such data added to classifications showing details of unusual lithologies and individuals within the general classification would be greatly appreciated by all. The variations within falls and finds always fascinate me. Graham On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: Two things: Many meteorites are heterogeneous. When we say Katol is L6 or NWA 869 is L3-6 or Almahata Sitta is an anomalous urelite, these are collective terms. Katol refers to everything that fell that day in India. It has been classified as L6. However, it is possible (and for Almahata Sitta, probable) that a given specimen does not representatively sample the incoming meteoroid. There is nothing wrong with saying that Almahata Sitta #25 is dominated by an H5 lithology or that Katol #4(?) is a metal rich lithology. Good practice would be to assign some kind of specimen number to each object and publish a catalog, so the world will always know what you are talking about. I would gladly publish such specimen tables in the MetBull database, especially if done systematically. As for the name question, NomCom would only give a separate name if there was significant doubt that a specimen was part of the Katol fall. This has happened before, as with Galim (b) and Zag (b), but it didn't happen with Almahata Sitta and I don't think there is much doubt in this case either. Jeff - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Greg, The find order is not necessarily important at all to science.although I think we all would agree that would be nice. That's a hunter thing that does not mean much to science. Field names and numbers are often in the bulletin comments if provided during the submittable process. My suggestion is that the samples studied would be assigned a number in the order received by the Editor. This completely eliminates the petty BS that goes on with some playing numbers games. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:40 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It would probably be best not to use a lithologic term in a numbering scheme. Some specimens may defy such a descriptor, and in other cases it may simply be hard to tell what it is at the time of numbering. And it would really be good not to use numbers in the same format as dense collection areas (001, 002, etc.). I would suggest using simple numbering schemes like #1, #2, etc. Unlike 001 or no. 1, this symbol never occurs in meteorite names (unless as part of a tweet, I suppose). A good example of how I think it should be done is the way Peter Jenniskens did it for Sutter's Mill and Almahata Sitta, e.g., http://asima.seti.org/sm/ and http://asima.seti.org/2008TC3/ Jeff On 1/2/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I did it for the Cali Colombia fall as well. It is easy to do with low number fall and one person taking charge. To this day we don't know where the Katol stones in India are. The large Thika stone which was taken by the military in Kenya, vanished. We don't even know the weight of that stone. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:01 AM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: It would probably be best not to use a lithologic term in a numbering scheme. Some specimens may defy such a descriptor, and in other cases it may simply be hard to tell what it is at the time of numbering. And it would really be good not to use numbers in the same format as dense collection areas (001, 002, etc.). I would suggest using simple numbering schemes like #1, #2, etc. Unlike 001 or no. 1, this symbol never occurs in meteorite names (unless as part of a tweet, I suppose). A good example of how I think it should be done is the way Peter Jenniskens did it for Sutter's Mill and Almahata Sitta, e.g., http://asima.seti.org/sm/ and http://asima.seti.org/2008TC3/ Jeff On 1/2/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Carl, Spot on! Question: How much material is required for the oxygen isotope testing??? When we were working on the H-Metal, the ICPMS-LA (Herd) tests completed on the last one used less than 100 milli-grams. And previous INAA (Actlabs) testing used 100 milli-grams. And, as you know sample size was nill! In either case, is not like you have to cut a third of it off. Not sure about the OI tests. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:48 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I am not arguing with Laurence, the photos of the thin sections, the oxygen isotope data seems clear. I am simply showing there is a little more going on with Katol than common (l6). You can examine the piece in Tucson when you come down for the show. I think you'll like it. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It is one of the prettiest meteorite pieces I've ever seen, it isn't going to be drilled, cored, cut, slabbed, dipped in acid or melted! The other 4 pieces were sold (Europe I think) let them chop theirs up:) Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Carl, Spot on! Question: How much material is required for the oxygen isotope testing??? When we were working on the H-Metal, the ICPMS-LA (Herd) tests completed on the last one used less than 100 milli-grams. And previous INAA (Actlabs) testing used 100 milli-grams. And, as you know sample size was nill! In either case, is not like you have to cut a third of it off. Not sure about the OI tests. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:48 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Some comments that have been made suggest no chondrules, yet there they are in the BSE images. Laurence does give their sizes in the write up and they tend to be really small (200 - 700 um), but not really uncommon. Because of their size, could that be why some are missing them when they look at it and say no chondrules? Jim On 1/2/2014 9:10 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Jim, For one oxygen isotope analysis, I need way less - 1 mg is sufficient. If there were pieces of silicate sticking out on Mike's sample, along the margin of the cut side, maybe these could just be clipped/broken off? Karen On 1/2/14 9:07 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Carl, Spot on! Question: How much material is required for the oxygen isotope testing??? When we were working on the H-Metal, the ICPMS-LA (Herd) tests completed on the last one used less than 100 milli-grams. And previous INAA (Actlabs) testing used 100 milli-grams. And, as you know sample size was nill! In either case, is not like you have to cut a third of it off. Not sure about the OI tests. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:48 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Karen! Amazing! Great info. I am sure I will be talking to you soon on a project I am working on. Carl has some of the data now. I can understand why Mike is not going to touch his sample! LOL! Maybe one of the other collectors will come forward with one of the other metal specimens! Jim On 1/2/2014 10:05 AM, Karen Ziegler wrote: Jim, For one oxygen isotope analysis, I need way less - 1 mg is sufficient. If there were pieces of silicate sticking out on Mike's sample, along the margin of the cut side, maybe these could just be clipped/broken off? Karen - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Carl, Karen, Jim, Michael et allis the oriented iron (Mike's) simply an isolated portion of a larger mass's metal bleebs? I can't understand how without silicates the iron can be associated, but that's because I'm not up to date.Help? Richard Montgoemry - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not arguing with Laurence, the photos of the thin sections, the oxygen isotope data seems clear. I am simply showing there is a little more going on with Katol than common (l6). You can examine the piece in Tucson when you come down for the show. I think you'll like it. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Apparantly I didn't read the entire thread carefully enough. Mike, with the picture you posted of the oriented iron, can we see silicates clearly? - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Yes, the yellow section. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:21 PM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Apparantly I didn't read the entire thread carefully enough. Mike, with the picture you posted of the oriented iron, can we see silicates clearly? - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Thank you Greg. Yes, all the pieces of Almahata Sitta sold by either Siegfried Haberer or myself carry the number of the specimen it was cut from. And that is the number assigned to that fragment by Addi Bischoff. Example: MS-169 - Coarse-grained Ureilite MS-174 - Chondrite EL6 MS-181 - Bencubbinite .etc... You can see the whole list there: http://www.impactika.com/Meteorities/ASitta.htm Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net To: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net; meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 8:40 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
That is one sick meteorite ;-) Happy New Year, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wooddell Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 1:16 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Here is Mike Farmer's picture: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/desertsunburn/media/katolphoto_zps463296b4 .jpg.html -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Jeff and all! I'd say XRF data can and does vary. Not enough info in the write up on testing methods. What is the accepted procedure agreed to using XRF to test? BIG QUESTION! Read on! A few years ago, XRF seemed to not be considered much in this community. Only a few were using it pretty much only for determining if a rock had the attributes to be considered a meteorite. Somewhat like PIXE tests. Some places have XRF, some have PIXE where they are looking for key elements. I know XRF technology has improved. I found it refreshing that the XRF data was listed. Correlations being standard methods of lab testing and XRF showed to be 0.85 to 0.95 (or there abouts) by the EPA in a paper about testing lead a while back that I read. Calibration reference is key to accurate, repeatable measurements with XRF. In the gold and silver industry, they have been accepted widely but generally on massed samples (by melt - Homogenous mixture). My question about the XRF data is how was the measurement taken. It stated whole rock and the mean of two shots??? So, does that mean that the sample was massed and pressed into a disk then shot twice or what? I'd love to know how this was performed. Overall, with probe data, the XRF is somewhat redundant and without what it was referenced to, eye candy, but very interesting. Don't think XRF would take the place of probe data. Both can be subjective to a point. It would be nice to read if the same standards were used for calibration for both the probe and XRF were used and the correlation. I do think XRF can have it's place. Standard's should be developed on how it might be used. Maybe they are out there. Point and shoot, if you are looking for a quantitative answer, is not the way IMHO. Jim On 12/31/2013 6:04 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Can't resist doing some arm-chair science... usually a bad move, but oh well... I'll probably end up retracting much of this speculation... There IS something strange about this meteorite to me. I don't know how good the XRF analysis is, but it is not what I would expect from an L chondrite. These analyses show a 30-40% enrichment in Ca and Al relative to Si over what an L chondrite should be, and siderophiles are ~20% too high as well. If these are accurate, then there has been fractionation, suggestive of enrichment in low-melting components (which is odd). Sodium does not fit this story, but it's a harder element to analyze by xrf. I also agree that coarse poikilitic grains are hard to explain by solid-state metamorpism, but they could also be derived from relict chondrules. If this rock was melted to a large extent, I'd expect it to be depleted in metal and sulfide. So I'm betting that the whole system has experienced low-degree partial melting, and some of these melts have infiltrated this particular chunk of high-metamorphic-grade L chondrite. I agree with Carl that this has hallmarks of what many people call a type 7 chondrite. But the whole issue of how to draw lines (or if there ARE lines) between primitive achondrites, type 7 chondrites, and products of shock heating/melting is very fuzzy and tends to be highly interpretive. In a sense, this is the same discussion that surrounds Portales Valley, an ordinary chondrite that has also been around the block. Here is an article on Katol that Laurence Garvie pointed me to: http://www.geosocindia.org/abstracts/2013/feb/p151-157.pdf Jeff -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike, I can host it for a time if you have a big image. However, why not send it to Jeff (sized edited to 800 pixels) for inclusion in the bulletin? He takes care of that pretty quick. Jim On 12/31/2013 6:31 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Anyone who can host a photo to post to the list, let me know. I have a great photo of my 136 gram oriented Katol (L6) iron to share. Michael Farmer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6965 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Yes, Jim, and this is why arm-chair science is not a good idea! We really have to wait for the publication to see what was done. There is a vast and long literature on XRF analysis of geological materials, including meteorites. The scientific community has accepted these for decades. The classic XRF technique involving preparation of fused disks and wavelength-dispersive analysis for major and minor elements has provided some of the most beautiful datasets in meteoritics (and earth science). In the 1960s, von Michaelis and co-workers produced classic papers showing the narrow range of bulk composition in chondrite groups using this kind of method. These and the wet-chemical analyses of Jarosewich (a now-extinct method, as far as I'm aware) provide some of the best, complete major-element data in bulk meteorites that we have to this day. At the other extreme, there are many quick and dirty energy-dispersive XRF methods these days that have much less precision and accuracy, e.g. the use of hand-held XRF systems on irregular bulk samples. And, there are many good and not-so-good methods in between. XRF is a very broad term, and we don't know what was done. So, I would not be so quick to dismiss XRF. It can be highly quantitative using a variety of well-documented, time-proven methods... and it can be virtually useless for the kind of interpretation that I did in my previous email. Jeff On 1/1/2014 9:25 AM, Jim Wooddell wrote: Hi Jeff and all! I'd say XRF data can and does vary. Not enough info in the write up on testing methods. What is the accepted procedure agreed to using XRF to test? BIG QUESTION! Read on! A few years ago, XRF seemed to not be considered much in this community. Only a few were using it pretty much only for determining if a rock had the attributes to be considered a meteorite. Somewhat like PIXE tests. Some places have XRF, some have PIXE where they are looking for key elements. I know XRF technology has improved. I found it refreshing that the XRF data was listed. Correlations being standard methods of lab testing and XRF showed to be 0.85 to 0.95 (or there abouts) by the EPA in a paper about testing lead a while back that I read. Calibration reference is key to accurate, repeatable measurements with XRF. In the gold and silver industry, they have been accepted widely but generally on massed samples (by melt - Homogenous mixture). My question about the XRF data is how was the measurement taken. It stated whole rock and the mean of two shots??? So, does that mean that the sample was massed and pressed into a disk then shot twice or what? I'd love to know how this was performed. Overall, with probe data, the XRF is somewhat redundant and without what it was referenced to, eye candy, but very interesting. Don't think XRF would take the place of probe data. Both can be subjective to a point. It would be nice to read if the same standards were used for calibration for both the probe and XRF were used and the correlation. I do think XRF can have it's place. Standard's should be developed on how it might be used. Maybe they are out there. Point and shoot, if you are looking for a quantitative answer, is not the way IMHO. Jim On 12/31/2013 6:04 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Can't resist doing some arm-chair science... usually a bad move, but oh well... I'll probably end up retracting much of this speculation... There IS something strange about this meteorite to me. I don't know how good the XRF analysis is, but it is not what I would expect from an L chondrite. These analyses show a 30-40% enrichment in Ca and Al relative to Si over what an L chondrite should be, and siderophiles are ~20% too high as well. If these are accurate, then there has been fractionation, suggestive of enrichment in low-melting components (which is odd). Sodium does not fit this story, but it's a harder element to analyze by xrf. I also agree that coarse poikilitic grains are hard to explain by solid-state metamorpism, but they could also be derived from relict chondrules. If this rock was melted to a large extent, I'd expect it to be depleted in metal and sulfide. So I'm betting that the whole system has experienced low-degree partial melting, and some of these melts have infiltrated this particular chunk of high-metamorphic-grade L chondrite. I agree with Carl that this has hallmarks of what many people call a type 7 chondrite. But the whole issue of how to draw lines (or if there ARE lines) between primitive achondrites, type 7 chondrites, and products of shock heating/melting is very fuzzy and tends to be highly interpretive. In a sense, this is the same discussion that surrounds Portales Valley, an ordinary chondrite that has also been around the block. Here is an article on Katol that Laurence Garvie pointed me to: http://www.geosocindia.org/abstracts/2013/feb/p151-157.pdf Jeff
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Anyone who can host a photo to post to the list, let me know. I have a great photo of my 136 gram oriented Katol (L6) iron to share. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Here is Mike Farmer's picture: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/desertsunburn/media/katolphoto_zps463296b4.jpg.html -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike, You could send that picture to Paul Swartz (valpar...@aol.com ) and he will post it on Picture of the Day. Jim, The pictures you see on the MetBulletin are really hosted in the Encyclopedia of Meteorites, owned and operated by the IMCA, and then linked to the MetBulletin. So you have to open an account there and then send your pictures to http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/ Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Jan 1, 2014 7:31 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Mike, I can host it for a time if you have a big image. However, why not send it to Jeff (sized edited to 800 pixels) for inclusion in the bulletin? He takes care of that pretty quick. Jim On 12/31/2013 6:31 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Anyone who can host a photo to post to the list, let me know. I have a great photo of my 136 gram oriented Katol (L6) iron to share. Michael Farmer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6965 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Anne! One can not post pictures in the proper place using the EOM method. They all go into the uncertain category. Jeff places them in the correct areasomething an EOM member can not do. Happy New Year. Jim On 1/1/2014 11:11 AM, Anne Black wrote: Mike, You could send that picture to Paul Swartz (valpar...@aol.com ) and he will post it on Picture of the Day. Jim, The pictures you see on the MetBulletin are really hosted in the Encyclopedia of Meteorites, owned and operated by the IMCA, and then linked to the MetBulletin. So you have to open an account there and then send your pictures to http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/ Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Jan 1, 2014 7:31 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Mike, I can host it for a time if you have a big image. However, why not send it to Jeff (sized edited to 800 pixels) for inclusion in the bulletin? He takes care of that pretty quick. Jim On 12/31/2013 6:31 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Anyone who can host a photo to post to the list, let me know. I have a great photo of my 136 gram oriented Katol (L6) iron to share. Michael Farmer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6965 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6966 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: Hi Anne! One can not post pictures in the proper place using the EOM method. They all go into the uncertain category. Jeff places them in the correct areasomething an EOM member can not do. Happy New Year. Jim On 1/1/2014 11:11 AM, Anne Black wrote: Mike, You could send that picture to Paul Swartz (valpar...@aol.com ) and he will post it on Picture of the Day. Jim, The pictures you see on the MetBulletin are really hosted in the Encyclopedia of Meteorites, owned and operated by the IMCA, and then linked to the MetBulletin. So you have to open an account there and then send your pictures to http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/ Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Jan 1, 2014 7:31 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Mike, I can host it for a time if you have a big image. However, why not send it to Jeff (sized edited to 800 pixels) for inclusion in the bulletin? He takes care of that pretty quick. Jim On 12/31/2013 6:31 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Anyone who can host a photo to post to the list, let me know. I have a great photo of my 136 gram oriented Katol (L6) iron to share. Michael Farmer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6965 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6966 - Release Date: 01/01/14 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hello All, Krinov discussed the depressions with raised rims observed on Sikhote Alines and concluded that they were not impact marks, but were instead formed when volatile inclusions (relative to Fe-Ni) reached the surface of the iron and boiled out. I have seen a few with remnants of what might be tiny impactors in the center/floor of the pit, but I do think that they are most likely 'bubbles'...not to burst anyones' bubbles. https://picasaweb.google.com/107508108525239417569/Irons?authkey=Gv1sRgCJ6DmIe53MKuGg#5549869672083631618 It would make sense for a chondritic-derived iron to have more volatile inclusions than a typical iron, so the abundant pits on Michael's iron make sense. If what Jeff said is true, Katol would be analogous to other primitive achondrite groups that show depletions in siderophiles and other more volatile minerals with increasing degrees of reduction and recrystallization (e.g. acapulcoites/lodranites, winonaites, etc.)...though Katol would be more comparable to those groups' volatile-enriched counterparts, which have yet to be recognized in our collections. I don't know that one could determine the origin of the poikilitic grains in this rock, but, the meteorite has experienced a significant degree of macroscopic segregation (e.g. there are some irons, some stones that are ~50/50, and some stones that are non-magnetic). If we were talking about typical impact-derived, ragged metal grains, it would be one thing, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Since siderophile enrichment and depletion can happen without complete recrystallization (e.g. Leedy and some other FeS depleted chondrites), that in itself isn't a great argument, but those rocks don't exhibit the same degree of metamorphism or heterogeneity. And they probably don't exhibit the other anomalies noted by Jeff. https://picasaweb.google.com/107508108525239417569/NewFallTS?authkey=Gv1sRgCPjn9avbhp2TrwE#5941037918280051250 Field of view is ~4cm. Regards, Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Mike and all! I have not seen Katol, except for your sample. Am I assuming correctly that your high iron specimen is what is mentioned in the write-up? If it is, does this mean your specimen is not representative of the others? The way I read it, it is not. What do the other samples look like? Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
There are many variations in Katol, some pieces were almost achondrite-like shiny glossy crust, some were more chondritic looking, others were all or partial iron. I know of 5 complete iron pieces. It is not heterogenous. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@e.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! I have not seen Katol, except for your sample. Am I assuming correctly that your high iron specimen is what is mentioned in the write-up? If it is, does this mean your specimen is not representative of the others? The way I read it, it is not. What do the other samples look like? Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Check out the geochem plots now posted in the MetBull for Katol: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=24.9y=0.4plot=2label=Katol%20%28L6%29 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=21.9y=0.5plot=3label=Katol%20%28L6%29 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=24.9y=21.9plot=1label=Katol%20%28L6%29 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/drawplot.php?x=4.961;4.867y=3.549;3.596z=0.930;1.026plot=10label=Katol%20%28L6%29 * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: There are many variations in Katol, some pieces were almost achondrite-like shiny glossy crust, some were more chondritic looking, others were all or partial iron. I know of 5 complete iron pieces. It is not heterogenous. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@e.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! I have not seen Katol, except for your sample. Am I assuming correctly that your high iron specimen is what is mentioned in the write-up? If it is, does this mean your specimen is not representative of the others? The way I read it, it is not. What do the other samples look like? Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hello All, IMHO Katol was not a 'rubble' pile and the few 'irons' were in fact just rather large nickel-iron impactor pockets that broke away from the Katol mass as it broke apart during its fiery entry into Earth's atmosphere... ;-) Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 9:06 PM To: Michael Farmer Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist ; Jim Wooddell Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Mike's photo in posted in the database now. Jeff On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, Jim
[meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Wow, this is just a surprize, or maybe not ? For me the crust looks alot like chondrite material, so Im not surprized here. But still interesting -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) 567667 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I'm glad I did not take that bet on this one. Surprised also. Cheers John On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 7:30 AM, PolandMET mar...@polandmet.com wrote: Wow, this is just a surprize, or maybe not ? For me the crust looks alot like chondrite material, so Im not surprized here. But still interesting -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) 567667 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Carl and all! Yes, nice write-up! It seems to raise a bar for geochem if someone wanted to go this far with a particular specimen. Cool to see Karen involved! So now, I have all sorts of ideas for one I am working on! Now all I need to do is win the lottery! NMU is becoming or has become the one stop shop for meteorites! Nice! Happy New Year! Jim On 12/31/2013 10:14 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
The lab data you (Carl) mention suggests only L, nothing more. No one's arguing with that. We had that data months ago. As I understand it, not one chondrule was observed optically in Katol; they were found only when examining BSE images. This would have ruled out a chondritic classification prior to the widespread use of SEM's. And the fact that we're discussing this now is relevant; no other type 6 chondrite has been metamorphosed to this extent (literally invisible chondrules, unless you have a multi-million dollar piece of equipment at your disposal). Since this meteorite doesn't texturally resemble any known L's, having been melted and slowly cooled to a poikilitic texture, deeming it an L6 is pigeonholing it. Larger-scale heterogeneities resulted in 140 gram iron meteorites and 200+ gram literally metallic-iron-free meteorites with glossy Ca-rich fusion crusts. Such things aren't usually glossed over when classifying a meteorite. It's just like calling Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, EL6/7, or EL3. Just because you can justify a classification with a few parameters doesn't make it an accurate descriptor of a meteorite. Which of those classifications is best? EL3. Is it right? No. That stone doesn't texturally resemble any other (enstatite) chondrites of any kind. It's anomalous. Rather like Katol. Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike, Andy, Jim, I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L chondrites and primitive achondrites. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote: With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial... With a high wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7? Andy Tomkins On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote: On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6963 - Release Date: 12/31/13 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Vis __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Jason, The lab data suggest more than just L. The low standard deviation on the Fa and Fs indicate type 5 or 6, with the the faint chondrules and high Wo we are definitely at type 6. Just because it's hard to see the chondrules with a petrographic microscope doesn't mean they aren't there. I hope you aren't suggesting that we go back to optically determining 2Vs in olivine to get the Fa-content. Electron microprobes are modern the workhorse for classification, add in oxygen isotopes and you have it pretty much covered. Carl PS: the albitic plagioclase in Katol is OC plag. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: The lab data you (Carl) mention suggests only L, nothing more. No one's arguing with that. We had that data months ago. As I understand it, not one chondrule was observed optically in Katol; they were found only when examining BSE images. This would have ruled out a chondritic classification prior to the widespread use of SEM's. And the fact that we're discussing this now is relevant; no other type 6 chondrite has been metamorphosed to this extent (literally invisible chondrules, unless you have a multi-million dollar piece of equipment at your disposal). Since this meteorite doesn't texturally resemble any known L's, having been melted and slowly cooled to a poikilitic texture, deeming it an L6 is pigeonholing it. Larger-scale heterogeneities resulted in 140 gram iron meteorites and 200+ gram literally metallic-iron-free meteorites with glossy Ca-rich fusion crusts. Such things aren't usually glossed over when classifying a meteorite. It's just like calling Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, EL6/7, or EL3. Just because you can justify a classification with a few parameters doesn't make it an accurate descriptor of a meteorite. Which of those classifications is best? EL3. Is it right? No. That stone doesn't texturally resemble any other (enstatite) chondrites of any kind. It's anomalous. Rather like Katol. Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Nice GeoChem data. Interesting to see the XFR data included. Happy New Year! Jim Wooddell On 12/31/2013 8:14 AM, karmaka wrote: Dear list members, Katol is officially listed as an L6 in the Bulletin now! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=Katolsfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=58500 Happy new year 2014 to all of you! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database:
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hello Carl, All, The low standard deviation on Fa and Fs denotes a high degree of equilibration, not just 5 or 6. Five or above would be more accurate. The nearly absent chondrules and high Wo are at [or beyond] type 6. If you're a researcher who believes in type 7 chondrites, since not all do. Based upon similar observations, one would simply call Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, or an EL3 if one were lucky enough to find an unequilibrated chondrule. The textural observations would be irrelevant. If we looked at other meteorites in a similar fashion, subgroups and textural designations would disappear. Since nomenclature blows back and forth, this is something of a semantic argument; as I understand it, the poikilitic shergottite you recently analyzed would have been a lherzolite only a few years ago, and no amount of discussion then or now would have changed that. And there is of course variation in analyses. NWA 5205 is paired with NWA 5421 and our NWA 6501. Which was supposedly paired with NWA 6283. Very distinctive material, with classifications ranging from LL3.2 to LL3.7 to H3.6. But you did note that the shergottite was poikilitic. So is Katol. This stone has been metamorphosed in a unique way for a chondrite, and its classification required a much greater degree of attention because of that. But the result does not reflect that. Just like Al Haggounia 001, the aubrite. It's odd, and I do think that 'pigeonholing' is the right term to use here. Regards, Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Andy, Jim, I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L chondrites and primitive achondrites. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote: With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial... With a high wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7? Andy Tomkins On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote: On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green crystals throughout the matrix, very odd meteorites, everyone who looked at it thought it was an achondrite, including many scientists. I've never seen an L6 with white matrix and some pieces nearly green with crystals. Not your garden variety L6 for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Super write-up by Laurence Garvie, but strange that there was so much mystery surrounding what turns out to be garden variety L6, albeit a nice fresh fall. I wonder why people thought it was achondrite-ung? Oxygen and geochem are unequivocal EOC, no mystery at all. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Can't resist doing some arm-chair science... usually a bad move, but oh well... I'll probably end up retracting much of this speculation... There IS something strange about this meteorite to me. I don't know how good the XRF analysis is, but it is not what I would expect from an L chondrite. These analyses show a 30-40% enrichment in Ca and Al relative to Si over what an L chondrite should be, and siderophiles are ~20% too high as well. If these are accurate, then there has been fractionation, suggestive of enrichment in low-melting components (which is odd). Sodium does not fit this story, but it's a harder element to analyze by xrf. I also agree that coarse poikilitic grains are hard to explain by solid-state metamorpism, but they could also be derived from relict chondrules. If this rock was melted to a large extent, I'd expect it to be depleted in metal and sulfide. So I'm betting that the whole system has experienced low-degree partial melting, and some of these melts have infiltrated this particular chunk of high-metamorphic-grade L chondrite. I agree with Carl that this has hallmarks of what many people call a type 7 chondrite. But the whole issue of how to draw lines (or if there ARE lines) between primitive achondrites, type 7 chondrites, and products of shock heating/melting is very fuzzy and tends to be highly interpretive. In a sense, this is the same discussion that surrounds Portales Valley, an ordinary chondrite that has also been around the block. Here is an article on Katol that Laurence Garvie pointed me to: http://www.geosocindia.org/abstracts/2013/feb/p151-157.pdf Jeff On 12/31/2013 6:33 PM, Jason Utas wrote: Hello Carl, All, The low standard deviation on Fa and Fs denotes a high degree of equilibration, not just 5 or 6. Five or above would be more accurate. The nearly absent chondrules and high Wo are at [or beyond] type 6. If you're a researcher who believes in type 7 chondrites, since not all do. Based upon similar observations, one would simply call Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, or an EL3 if one were lucky enough to find an unequilibrated chondrule. The textural observations would be irrelevant. If we looked at other meteorites in a similar fashion, subgroups and textural designations would disappear. Since nomenclature blows back and forth, this is something of a semantic argument; as I understand it, the poikilitic shergottite you recently analyzed would have been a lherzolite only a few years ago, and no amount of discussion then or now would have changed that. And there is of course variation in analyses. NWA 5205 is paired with NWA 5421 and our NWA 6501. Which was supposedly paired with NWA 6283. Very distinctive material, with classifications ranging from LL3.2 to LL3.7 to H3.6. But you did note that the shergottite was poikilitic. So is Katol. This stone has been metamorphosed in a unique way for a chondrite, and its classification required a much greater degree of attention because of that. But the result does not reflect that. Just like Al Haggounia 001, the aubrite. It's odd, and I do think that 'pigeonholing' is the right term to use here. Regards, Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Andy, Jim, I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L chondrites and primitive achondrites. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote: With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial... With a high wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7? Andy Tomkins On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote: On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Jason et al. Nice that the Met-list is lively again! Poikilitic shergotitte is Tony Irving's invention and woe to those who don't use that term, and instead use the antiquated lherzolitic. I'm one of those old fashion people who actually like the term lherzolitic shergottite, but have succumb to severe peer-pressure and now use poikilitic in my write-ups. I did have a chance recently to invent another new martian meteorite name Augite Basalt (NWA 8159), which I am sure will be subject to all sorts of nomenclature pot-shots. Also I have been told by several experts that NWA 7034 is regolith breccia and not a basaltic breccia. Happy New Year! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Carl, All, The low standard deviation on Fa and Fs denotes a high degree of equilibration, not just 5 or 6. Five or above would be more accurate. The nearly absent chondrules and high Wo are at [or beyond] type 6. If you're a researcher who believes in type 7 chondrites, since not all do. Based upon similar observations, one would simply call Al Haggounia 001 an aubrite, or an EL3 if one were lucky enough to find an unequilibrated chondrule. The textural observations would be irrelevant. If we looked at other meteorites in a similar fashion, subgroups and textural designations would disappear. Since nomenclature blows back and forth, this is something of a semantic argument; as I understand it, the poikilitic shergottite you recently analyzed would have been a lherzolite only a few years ago, and no amount of discussion then or now would have changed that. And there is of course variation in analyses. NWA 5205 is paired with NWA 5421 and our NWA 6501. Which was supposedly paired with NWA 6283. Very distinctive material, with classifications ranging from LL3.2 to LL3.7 to H3.6. But you did note that the shergottite was poikilitic. So is Katol. This stone has been metamorphosed in a unique way for a chondrite, and its classification required a much greater degree of attention because of that. But the result does not reflect that. Just like Al Haggounia 001, the aubrite. It's odd, and I do think that 'pigeonholing' is the right term to use here. Regards, Jason www.fallsandfinds.com On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Andy, Jim, I don't have bias one way or another in the case of Katol, but looking at the data in the write-up this is a clear-cut L6 chondrite -- no ambiguity. There are chondrules albeit highly equilbrated, the olivines are L6, the pyroxenes are L6, the oxygen isotopes are L-chondrite. If there were no chondrules, high Wo and OC-type olivine and pyroxene, then one could make the case for type 7. I'm just going by the numbers given in the write-up, I haven't looked at this beyond a quick glance in hand specimen, not an achondrite -- period. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I was also under the impression that this was transitional likely between L chondrites and primitive achondrites. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Andy Tomkins rockdo...@gmail.com wrote: With great respect and just to be a little bit controversial... With a high wollastonite content in the opx like that, sparse remnant chondrules and many of the other features, perhaps this might be a L7? An example of why there needs to be a clearer definition of what defines Type 6 from Type 7? Andy Tomkins On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Andy Tomkins wrote: On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Mike, No doubt an interesting meteorite! I guess I should qualify it by saying the oxygen and the olivine and pyroxene geochem data are garden variety EOC. I guess looks can be deceiving -- yet another testimony to lab data being the blind taste test. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, the huge metal nodules, the large green
