On Jun 29, 2008, at 15:18, Frances Berriman wrote:
The BBC can't use HTML5. It won't validate,
HTML5 validates (in the present tense) at http://html5.validator.nu/
Moreover, if validation causes you to emit user experience-degrading
markup in violation if the intended language semantics*,
As we turnaround on the spot about machine data issue, the question of
Natural Language Processing (NPL) has come up again. The main problem
with any form of NLP is there are too many ambiguities in reading dates
or any other form of freeform human written text. I don't want us to go
down this
Breton Slivka wrote:
I think this sort of counter argument is a straw man. The proposal
from Guillaume was not to write a natural language parser that can
parse any kind of human written date. The proposal was to parse a very
specific and standardized format of date. If one were to write
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Dan Brickley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Breton Slivka wrote:
I think this sort of counter argument is a straw man. The proposal
from Guillaume was not to write a natural language parser that can
parse any kind of human written date. The proposal was to parse a
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Duncan Cragg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Those of us who favour opaque URLs (actually for practical reasons such as
clean separation of concerns, maintainability, etc.) are unhappy with being
forced into a semantic URL schema when using rel-tag.
Can you go into a
the restrictions:
1. No information hiding
2. Humans first, machines second.
3. It must be in a format that's easily machine parsable.
You see the problem here? You guys are going to have to comprimise on
one of these three damned restrictions, or face irrelevance!
I suggests a 4th
4. Respect the natural language, calendar, and writing system preferences
of the human content author.
The ONLY way I can see to do that without compromising on reliability or
speed would be to actually fully describe the date format in the markup in
the page itself.
On 30/06/2008, Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 29, 2008, at 15:18, Frances Berriman wrote:
The BBC can't use HTML5. It won't validate,
Sorry - I should have qualified - I meant with their current doctype.
HTML5 validates (in the present tense) at
On Mon, 2008-06-30 at 07:57 +0100, Glenn Jones wrote:
abbr class=dtstart title=Date: 25 January 2008 at 15:30, Time zone
+1:00Jan 25 08/abbr
My thought for some time now is that the problem should be simplified a
little, maybe also the problem could be looked at a little differently
by trying
Against this we have statements like Tantek's. I'm vehemently opposed
to putting data in the class attribute. We must find better
alternatives. We must not go down the path of invisible (dark)
(meta)data - IMHO that principle is inviolable for microformats.
I respect Tantek's views and I
In a nutshell, the proposal would allow authors to write:
span class=dtstart
On abbr class=value title=2008-06-30June 30th/abbr
at abbr class=value title=09:009.00am/abbr
/span
With the provisos that authors:
*must* use hyphens to separate the date value (2008-06-30, not
20080630),
*must* use colons
On 30 Jun 2008, at 16:16, Jeremy Keith wrote:
Now I'm not saying that this solution is perfect but it's by far the
best I've seen so far. It doesn't involve hiding data and it doesn't
involve stuffing data values in the class attribute. It *does* still
use the abbr element for a usage
On Mon, 2008-06-30 at 16:16 +0100, Jeremy Keith wrote:
span class=dtstart
On abbr class=value title=2008-06-30June 30th/abbr
at abbr class=value title=09:009.00am/abbr
/span
Yes Jeremy I like this idea but...
its this bit I am having difficulty with
[...]
On abbr class=value
Ben Ward wrote:
I disagree with this. I don't think it's acceptable for us to define
microformats that break with the specified semantics of HTML. Yes,
it's frustrating that HTML is spec'd the way it is, but the intent
of the HTML title attribute is to be for human data. The intent of
the
Martin McEvoy wrote:
semantically on their own the above does not mean much nothing at all
really, search engines, parsers, things that index dates and times,
would have to peek at the parent to find out what the actual values
are
for.
But that's true already of any instance of the value
On [Jun 30], at [ Jun 30] 11:11 , Jeremy Keith wrote:
I disagree. I think that writing:
abbr title=14:005 minutes ago/abbr
...clarifies the abbreviated form.
I think the problem may be clarified by actually writing those out in
a sentence:
I arrived at work 5 minutes ago.
I arrived at
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 5:23 AM, George Brocklehurst
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is it worth revisiting Tantek's original suggestion of using the object
element to represent dates? [1]
The idea was to do something like this:
object data=20050125January 25/object
From what Tantek said
Scott wrote:
I think the problem may be clarified by actually writing those out
in a sentence:
I arrived at work 5 minutes ago.
I arrived at work 14:00.
The latter doesn't seem human-readable to me.
But it does to me. And that's kind of the crux of the issue. Defining
human readable is a
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:11 AM, Ben Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd like to make a very important point.
On 30 Jun 2008, at 10:38, Breton Slivka wrote:
if you violate #1, Tantek steps
in and says you can't do that.
On [Jun 30], at [ Jun 30] 4:29 , Jeremy Keith wrote:
There are a few cases where we are specifying content syntax for
publishers, e.g. phone type in hCard. And these are all similarly
problematic. I think we might get closer to solving these problems
by considering them not in terms of
Le 1 juil. 2008 à 12:50, Scott Reynen a écrit :
If HTML offered us a @metadata attribute, I think we'd do something
like this:
abbr title=June 30th, 2008 metadata=2008-06-306/30/08/abbr
* HTML 5
time datetime=2006-09-23
title=June 30th, 20086/30/08/time
* RDFa
span
I think approaching ISO dates as metadata rather than content will remove
the need to compromise on core principles.
I think you'll find that metadata of any kind is a comprimise of the
microformats core principles. It's information hiding, and the
example that tantek uses is the meta tag,
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