Ms. Albahari's project is to examine self/non-self, but she offers a way of
looking at the issue that is very interesting. She addresses the self in terms
of 'self' and 'sense of self'. She happens to offers free-will as an example
of the way the problem can be approached.
...Let
H Mark,
I suppose I am picking nits in a way that matters to no one else, but I need to
drop both causality and connectedness which seem both to require some intrinsic
nature. At the moment I like better 'conditionally co-dependent'.
Marsha
On Aug 6, 2011, at 12:15 PM, MarshaV
Hi Marsha,
I moved this to the new thread because it fits with what I wanted to
talk about with regard to understanding the differences between
Pirisg's MOQ conception for free will and the traditional uses of the
term free will.
Marsha:
Ms. Albahari's project is to examine self/non-self, but
Hi Ham,
Ham:
Thanks for opening this discussion to the Group. I commend you for having
effectively demonstrated the problems inherent in Pirsig's morality thesis,
especially as it concerns the exercise of free will.
Daniel Dennett and others have made the case that rational decisions can
Hmm.
Standard Poor.
The same Standard Poor that rated all those sub-prime CDO products AAA.
Most of which turned out to be garbage.
On 06/08/2011 01:57, Michael R. Brown wrote:
CNN BREAKING: Rating agency Standard Poor's says it has downgraded
the U.S. credit rating to AA+ from its top rank
The backfire effect.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3864
QUOTE
Most online battles follow a similar pattern, each side launching
attacks and pulling evidence from deep inside the web to back up their
positions until, out of frustration, one party resorts to an all-out
ad hominem nuclear strike. If
Hello Steve,
On Aug 7, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi Marsha,
I moved this to the new thread because it fits with what I wanted to
talk about with regard to understanding the differences between
Pirisg's MOQ conception for free will and the traditional uses of the
term free
Ian,
All-out ad hominem nuclear strike?Geee, I only get accused
rabidly attack. I must try harder. ;-)
Marsha
On Aug 7, 2011, at 10:19 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
The backfire effect.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3864
QUOTE
Most online battles follow a similar pattern,
Steve,
I liked your re-formulation of this issue and I believe you are on the right
track with pointing out that the normal understanding of the hot stove
issue, actually contradicts the normal understanding of free will.
Steve:
Most people would count hopping off a hot stove as an
I wouldn't take this too seriously. SP used to sell ratings in the
past. What is serious is the chance for default. Hopefully we are
will get on a more responsible path. Greenspan this morning stated
that the committee of twelve to be set up will probably never agree on
anything. We'll see by
I would say that Free-Will is only the ability to act irrationally.
We have the choice to Not do something. From the variety of impulses
that come to mind, we discard all of those which do not seem
appropriate at the time. This is freedom from irrationality.
Rational positive choice is sq and
Hi Marsha,
I would present your statement in reverse. I am therefore I feel my
emotions. This is where Descarte got it wrong and sidetracked
Western Logic. I think therefore I am should have been I am
therefore I think. This is obviously much more logical. We have to
be to think. We cannot
Hi Mark,
This was primarily a post by Ian.
Marsha
On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:22 PM, 118 wrote:
Hi Marsha,
I would present your statement in reverse. I am therefore I feel my
emotions. This is where Descarte got it wrong and sidetracked
Western Logic. I think therefore I am should have
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 12:17 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
I would say that Free-Will is only the ability to act irrationally.
We have the choice to Not do something.
Ask someone with Tourette's about free won't.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
Steve said to Ham:
I wonder if Dennett takes determinism as the belief that natural laws are true
as a metaphysical assertion or a pragmatic one. If the latter I agree with
Dennett and in some weak sense a determinist. If we take determinism to mean
that there is a degree of predictability
Dmb,
Seems like an unsubstantiated opinion piece. Want to try again?
Marsha
On Aug 7, 2011, at 1:19 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Steve said to Ham:
I wonder if Dennett takes determinism as the belief that natural laws are
true as a metaphysical assertion or a pragmatic one. If the
Marsha said to dmb:
Seems like an unsubstantiated opinion piece. Want to try again?
dmb says:
Since my opinion was delivered with supporting textual evidence from an
encyclopedia, including quotes from Schopenhauer, James, Kant, and Honderich, I
can only assume that you do not understand
On Aug 7, 2011, at 1:46 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Marsha said to dmb:
Seems like an unsubstantiated opinion piece. Want to try again?
dmb says:
Since my opinion was delivered with supporting textual evidence from an
encyclopedia, including quotes from Schopenhauer, James, Kant,
On Aug 7, 2011, at 1:19 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Steve said to Ham:
I wonder if Dennett takes determinism as the belief that natural laws are
true as a metaphysical assertion or a pragmatic one. If the latter I agree
with Dennett and in some weak sense a determinist. If we take
[Steve]
How do we make
free choices in cases where we are not following DQ?
IMHO free choice is the explicans not the explicandum.
[Steve]
What distinction
are you implicitly drawing between _free_ choices and other choices
which are presumably not free?
That is the distinction: free/not
[Steve]
On the other hand, if we can find examples of taking voluntary action
to successfully follow DQ, then such examples would be examples of
exercising free will based on Pirsig's formulation and the volition
implied in the word will.
Consider Zen and the Art of Archery:
If you make a
[Mark]
I would say that Free-Will is only the ability to act irrationally.
We have the choice to Not do something. From the variety of impulses
that come to mind, we discard all of those which do not seem
appropriate at the time. This is freedom from irrationality.
The first last sentences
Hi Steve --
Hi Ham,
I wonder if Dennett takes determinism as the belief that natural laws
are true as a metaphysical assertion or a pragmatic one. If the latter
I agree with Dennett and in some weak sense a determinist. If we
take determinism to mean that there is a degree of predictability
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