Dear John,
You write 3/7 16:18
+1000:
the very nature of quality must differ
according to my individual history and the developmental stages through which I
have passed.
I agree. The DQ jump to the
moon starts from a platform of already existing static patterns of value.
DQ is
John,
Mango
Tiger Jason. Epsilon Timeliness Fruitbat. Scratch Smackingly
Children Honk.
Was
this post supposed to be in Chinese characters? Could anyone supply a
translation?
AreteLaugh
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of
ÿþ< ! D O C T Y P E H T M L P U B L I C " - / / W 3 C / / D T D H T M L 4 . 0 T r a n s i t i o n a l / / E N " >
< H T M L > < H E A D >
< M E T A c o n t e n t = " t e x t / h t m l ; c h a r s e t = u n i c o d e " h t t p - e q u i v = C o n t e n t - T y p e >
Dear John,
Your conclusions (27/6 05:11 +1000)
from what I sent you about Quakers (24/6 23:07 +0200) are correct I
think.
I have some doubts about the
final decision is communal rather than individual (contrary to
Pirsig). The descriptions of what happens seem to justify this
conclusion,
Hi Sam, Platt and all,
SAM (Elizaphanian)
It just seems to me that the universe taken as a
whole is unique (by definition) and that therefore what we see is an
assumption - more or less justifiable dependent upon other parts of your
world view.
To bring it back to MoQ questions; surely our
A quick response to Jonathan:
So when SAM says:
I have a *lot* of sympathy with this.
I'm not surprised, but would be delighted if he agrees also out of a
religious perspective.
What do you say Sam?
I say that I DO agree from a staunchly religious perspective, but to spell
out exactly
Hi Jonathan:
JONATHAN:
I don't think there is any real problem Platt, simplicistic science is for
technicians and the layman. Whether they like to philosophise or not, I'm sure
that most would welcome my closing statement from my previous post as a
mantra.
The Universe is true to its
Hi Platt and all,
The Universe is true to its nature. This is the celestial order of all
things.
If you don't believe that, there is no point in doing science!
PLATT
Would you be so good as to elaborate. For example, The Universe is
true to its nature is a tautology--the
Hi all,
Jonathan wrote:
The universe is complete (UNI) * BY DEFINITION *. i.e. it IS an axiom. As
soon as
the universe starts to look incomplete, then what we are looking at is
something less than the whole universe.
Sam's question: this is indeed what I was groping towards, but I think
Dear
Rasheed,
You wrote 26/6 15:33
-0400:
Pirsig ... sees DQ as the
source of all new things, like an inventor, and sQ as its secretary which simply
takes note of what has happened so that he doesn't forget.
...
P.S. That was a pretty horrible
analogy
I don't agree with your P.S.. I
Rasheed,
I would disagree with your statement that looking for a way to 'permanently
experience DQ' contradicts the idea of DQ. Perhaps I'm wrong here, I'm
just working this idea, but instinctively I would say that although living
entirely on the edge of DQ would be completely fruitless, the
Jonathan wrote:
Marco, in energetic terms, closed means that their is no input our
output of
energy. There is no reason the system can't go on expanding in space.
What I would like to find out is *why* it is considered that there is no
input of energy; or, to be more precise, why such a
Hi Jonathan,
many thanks for your adjustments on my post. Hope you forgive my naiveness.
You are touching on something that I haven't yet addressed
in a previous post, and now force me to reveal a key
physical point in my proposed essay: Entropy HAS no upper
limit - it just goes on
:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MD Religion/God ~ MoQ/DQ
Hi Jonathan,
many thanks for your adjustments on my post. Hope you forgive my naiveness.
You are touching on something that I haven't yet addressed
in a previous post, and now force me to reveal a key
physical point in my
Hi Sam and all,
What I love about this forum is that everything gets questioned, and I find
myself repeatedly called upon to reconsider and clarify my position, often
with unexpected rewards.
Jonathan wrote:
Marco, in energetic terms, closed means that their is no input our
output of
Hi Jonathan, Elephant, Roger, Glenn and All:
Jonathan, I reread your essay *The End of Causality* in searching for
an answer to my question how novel qualities arise from the
rearrangement of elements that in themselves lack these qualities. In
doing so I was reminded that your answer is that
ÿþ< ! D O C T Y P E H T M L P U B L I C " - / / W 3 C / / D T D H T M L 4 . 0 T r a n s i t i o n a l / / E N " >
< H T M L > < H E A D >
< M E T A c o n t e n t = " t e x t / h t m l ; c h a r s e t = u n i c o d e " h t t p - e q u i v = C o n t e n t - T y p e >
Andi,
The music example is in chapter 9 of Lila, p 134-5. It's a good thing i mark
my book with rubber bands and arby's mints. as for what you said, i think i
may have been a little unclear with my assertion. First of all, i do believe
that the idea of DQ is always there, waiting to be
Stephen and others discussing 'the void'.
If you are interested in following this topic further, you might try to
obtain The Void by A. H. Almaas (the pen name for Hameed Ali). This is a
rather challenging book if you are not used to a mystic point of view, but
its interest to Pirsig fans is
Dear
Stephen,
You wrote 20/6 13:26 +0100 in the
Back on topic-thread:
In relation to Wim's post I
would put it as dynamic quality is a void that can be re-experienced time and
again. As human beings we change at different rates and absorb new static
patterns at different rates and
Message-
From: Wim Nusselder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 25 June 2001 10:20
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MD Religion/God ~ MoQ/DQ
Dear Stephen,
You wrote 20/6 13:26 +0100 in the Back on topic-thread:
In relation to Wim's post I would put it as dynamic quality is a void that
can
Hi Stephen and all,
. . .Incidentally, doesn't the second law of thermodynamics strongly
suggest that static patterns are not all migrating to an ultimate good? I'm
no stephen hawkings but if the 2nd law is true then isn't that therefore
the state to which all static patterns are migrating,
As main exponent of the 2nd law in this forum, I reject your assertion and
think that it reflects a lack of understanding of the law.
The law states the direction in which closed systems (including the
universe
as a whole) tend to change over time. It does not tell us if that change
will
Stephen,
Looking for a way to 'permanently experience DQ' contradicts the idea of DQ.
DQ is something that hits in a moment, when a person perceives Quality that
is inextricably connected with the moment in which she perceives it. I like
Pirsig's music example, which basically said that if
Hi Sam,
A query from a lurker: why is the universe as a whole considered a closed
system? How do we know whether it is or isn't, or does it follow
automatically from some other (perfectly sensible) prior assumption?
Just curious.
Good question!!! The classical view is that there is one
Hi Jonathan:
I hope in your new essay for the forum you will explain how novel
qualities arise from the rearrangement of elements that in themselves
lack these qualities. To simply say they emerge is a description, not
an explanation.
I eargerly look forward to your essay, not only for its
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 25 June 2001 16:00
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MD Religion/God ~ MoQ/DQ
Stephen,
Looking for a way to 'permanently experience DQ' contradicts the idea of DQ.
DQ is something that hits in a moment, when a person perceives Quality that
is inextricably
Dear
Stephen,
You wrote 25/6 13:14 +0100 the quality, the good isn't in the
void.
So we agree again. The rest of your
post doesn't seem to me to pinpoint DQ down, so it stays comfortably
undefined.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
Nusselder
Hi Jonathan,
I also have problems to accept universe as a closed system. And not because of
the possibility of multiple universes. Let me try a simple consideration.
I've heard that the system is expanding, so IMO it is not closed. Let's admit
that the total amount of energy is constant: if
Hi Platt, Marco and all,
PLATT
I hope in your new essay for the forum you will explain how novel
qualities arise from the rearrangement of elements that in themselves
lack these qualities. To simply say they emerge is a description, not
an explanation.
I'm not sure there is a rigorous
Dear John,
I promised to tell you
more about Quakers.
I hope it won't look too
much like a commercial. I value Quaker social and intellectual patterns higher
than those of other religions I have experienced or read about, mainly because
they leave more room for Dynamic Quality, for change
Ya' see?
This is why I don't like to take part in discussions of religion and the
like. It's why I find it quite fultile and not illuminating in any
way (where I take something positive away from it).
A lot of It's not really that way, it's really like
this.
And I just love being told what
Dear Matt,
Your irony tells me I may not have
shown proper respect for what you think yourself you think (and experience). I'm
sorry for that.
Should I have shown more humbleness by
explicitly saying It's really like this for me if I interpret my
experience correctly, but you are free to
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