Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-13 Thread STEFFAN DIEDRICHSEN
On 13.11.2013, at 12:54, Vadim Zavalishin wrote: > So, after we have modelled them all, we are not gonna need any further > modelling. ;-) At that time,we should offer real-time spice to let our dear customers tinker with their virtual circuits. We’ll offer in-app purchases like “bumble bee

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-13 Thread Vadim Zavalishin
On 13-Nov-13 11:56, Marco Lo Monaco wrote: I personally don’t think that automatic systems (DK) will be the panacea of nonlinear modeling (even if everybody here is dreaming of a realtime spice). Very often only a human can see patterns in circuits and find shortcuts to simplify things. +1 Bes

[music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-13 Thread Marco Lo Monaco
Andy, FYI besides the KMethod, DePoli/Borin/Sarti et alias always in the 1990s also formulated the W-method which was the dual of KMethod but using the wave digital filter theory by Fettweis. AFAIK is not so easily used because of the increased complexity of nonlinearities adaptors involved (yo

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Ross Bencina
On 11/11/2013 12:21 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote: but you cannot define your current output sample in terms of the current output sample. But that, with all due respect, is what has been done for quite a while. it's been reported or *reputed* to be done for quite a while. but when the smo

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Ross Bencina
Hi Ezra, A few comments: On 11/11/2013 3:19 PM, Ezra Buchla wrote: there seems to be some concern about distortion introduced by the trapezoidal integration. i've tried the algo in both fixed 32 ands float, and it seems to sound and look ok to but i have not done a proper analysis either numeri

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Ezra Buchla
i hope it's ok if i sum up the main themes here with background links, as i understand it. the thread is just such a mess... here is the state variable filter from hal chamberlin 1985 or so: http://t.co/SVJp7iAgqb pierre dutilleux wrote up a nice discretized and tuned version in dafx 1998: http:/

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 11/10/13 5:12 PM, Urs Heckmann wrote: On 11.11.2013, at 01:33, robert bristow-johnson wrote: but you cannot define your current output sample in terms of the current output sample. But that, with all due respect, is what has been done for quite a while. it's been reported or *reputed*

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Urs Heckmann
On 11.11.2013, at 01:33, robert bristow-johnson wrote: > but you cannot define your current output sample in terms of the current > output sample. But that, with all due respect, is what has been done for quite a while. It isn't the major ingredient of great sound, but it arguably has its pe

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread robert bristow-johnson
On 11/9/13 6:52 PM, Andrew Simper wrote: Marco writes: Well, of course the s = (T/2)(z-1)/(z+1) conversion comes from discretizing a differential equation. but remember, that's not the only way to convert s to z. that's the bilinear way to do it. ... What I would say more about this m

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread douglas repetto
Urs, I don't know if you're referring to music-dsp here, but this list is specifically not meant to be in the academic realm, but rather a place where people of all sorts with an interest in music and digital signal processing can chat. So I encourage you to share your results here! I'm sorr

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Urs Heckmann
The good thing is, a mathtard like me can implement it ;-) We've based a lot of our work on Vadim's and Andy's examples. These are a just so much easier to comprehend for auteurs than the chiffres typically used in academic papers. The irony in preserving-the-topology is, one can create stunning

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Robert Bielik
Yes, I was thinking along the lines of: Circuit schematic -> nodal analysis -> LLVM IL -> highly optimized DSP code :) (a bit like faust) /Rob Richard Dobson skrev 2013-11-10 13:41: So given all this, what are the prospects for a new Toolkit which those not blessed with the inner inner knowle

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Richard Dobson
So given all this, what are the prospects for a new Toolkit which those not blessed with the inner inner knowledge can just plug into our new Uber-Synths (or Csound)? (the music-dsp archive seems not to have received anything new since 2010...) Richard Dobson -- dupswapdrop -- the music-d

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Andrew Simper
On 10 November 2013 18:43, Marco Lo Monaco wrote: > if you look at Yeh's work you can have an idea. The (D)KMethod is a > generalization/extension of the state space ABCD approach to analog systems. > Vadim's and Andrew are basically the same thing and the inversion is hidden > in the calculation

[music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-10 Thread Marco Lo Monaco
Hi Andrew/Dominque, The DK-Method is a systematic way to implement on automatic systems the much more breathru approach called KMethod, who was (how fun) discovered by my professor in the late 1990s. I cant either tell the all the story (it would require a lot of time because it's a well defined an

Re: [music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-09 Thread Andrew Simper
On 9 November 2013 22:21, Marco Lo Monaco wrote: Hi Marco, First up I want to thank you for your considered and useful observations Marco, I appreciate where you are coming from and how you can clearly communicate your ideas. This makes it possible for me to reply to your points and offer observ

[music-dsp] R: R: Trapezoidal integrated optimised SVF v2

2013-11-09 Thread Marco Lo Monaco
Hi Andrew, >>I think it's useful for everyone, and especially those wanting to handle non-linearities or other music behaviour. Yes, but people who are working in this field and doing virtual analog have known these tricks for at least 10 years ago. :) > Being in the linear modeling field, I wou