Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-24 Thread Preben Randhol
Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/01/2002 (22:02) : The person was asking for a browser that could handle javascript. The one you said was 'better' doesn't support Javascript, either. No he didn't ask for that. He said he used lynx. I said w3m is better, but it isn't when you use

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-24 Thread Rob 'Feztaa' Park
Alas! Preben Randhol spake thus: No he didn't ask for that. He said he used lynx. I said w3m is better, but it isn't when you use the browser with a screenreader then lynx is better. He said I'm looking for a browser that supports javascript. I don't know about you, but to me this is

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-24 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * and then Rob 'Feztaa' Park blurted He said I'm looking for a browser that supports javascript. I don't know about you, but to me this is equivalent to What browsers support javascript? Is this thread still going? You two are like a couple

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-24 Thread Ross A. Osborn
On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 04:11:16PM -0500, Rob 'Feztaa' Park wrote: Alas! Preben Randhol spake thus: No he didn't ask for that. He said he used lynx. I said w3m is better, but it isn't when you use the browser with a screenreader then lynx is better. He said I'm looking for a browser

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-24 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * and then Ross A. Osborn blurted Is anybody else getting tired of this debate? Could you fellas take this off-line somewhere? No! Don't kill it now, I was there at the begining and I've come over all parental at thought of killing such a

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-23 Thread Thomas E. Dickey
On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Preben Randhol wrote: Thomas E. Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/01/2002 (19:11) : You're not responding to his question. (w3m doesn't do javascript No I didn't say it did. I just said w3m is better than lynx. tsk, tsk (you should go back and read the paragraph

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-23 Thread Preben Randhol
Thomas E. Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/01/2002 (20:31) : tsk, tsk (you should go back and read the paragraph to which you responded) Yes I have done it 3 times and I don't understand your point. If you could please be more clear when you post comments it would be nice. There were no

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-23 Thread Dave Price
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 08:28:14PM +0100, Nick Wilson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * and then Christian Schoepplein blurted Is this because of the keystroke vs mouse click thing? I've been using more and more console apps over the last few months and

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-23 Thread Thomas E. Dickey
On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Preben Randhol wrote: Thomas E. Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 23/01/2002 (20:31) : tsk, tsk (you should go back and read the paragraph to which you responded) Yes I have done it 3 times and I don't understand your point. If you could please be more clear when you

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-23 Thread Rob 'Feztaa' Park
Alas! Benjamin Smith spake thus: Useful for what exactly? I don't really see anything useful below that I couldn't find out simply by looking at your orignal message. Yes, but the same could be said for all quoted text, so why quote at all? -- Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- An error?

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-23 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * and then Rob 'Feztaa' Park blurted Yes, but the same could be said for all quoted text, so why quote at all? That's a good point! A few people went a little 'foaming at the mouth' on this topic over tha last few days but it all boils down

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-23 Thread Rob 'Feztaa' Park
Alas! Preben Randhol spake thus: Yes I have done it 3 times and I don't understand your point. If you could please be more clear when you post comments it would be nice. There were no questions in that paragraph. The person was asking for a browser that could handle javascript. The one you

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 22-01-02 at 09:17 * Rob 'Feztaa' Park said Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus: * On 21-01-02 at 23:17 Brian Foley said Some of the more extreme past members of this list would have blasted you out of the water for: a) using a

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 22-01-02 at 09:17 * Thomas Hurst said _Replying to a message_ By: Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mutt Users' List [EMAIL PROTECTED] On: Monday, January 21, 2002, 16:54:47 -0700 Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 22-01-02 at 09:17 * Jonathan Irving said Simple: defaults. Default behaviour is what most non-technical users end up with. I've heard it called flashing 12:00 syndrome, referencing the inability of most over-12-year-olds to program

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 22-01-02 at 09:17 * Rob 'Feztaa' Park said TheBat! is by far the best windows mail program I've seen (unless mutt is available for windows and I don't know about it). It sure beats Netscape Mail or LookOut, anyway. Does it support

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread René Clerc
* Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [22-01-2002 09:20]: Also, you could try to be creative with your attribution, like me or others here. I must admit to toying with several ideas but not coming up with anything I was happy enough with yet. You're right about the one line thing though and

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread David T-G
Brian, et al -- ...and then Brian Clark said... % % * Jonathan Irving ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 18:57]: % % Emacs and Pine both support per-message quote characters. I % think the idea is to choose something that identifies the person, % like: % % Hehe, no no, I meant *that exact

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread David T-G
Rob -- ...and then Feztaa said... % % Alas! Brian Clark spake thus: % % I've used clients like TheBat! before that do it as you've pointed out % below: % % BCThis line is quoted text % BCThis line is quoted text % % TheBat! is by far the best windows mail program I've seen

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread David T-G
Derek -- ...and then Derek D. Martin said... % o/ /o At some point hitherto, René Clerc hath spake thusly: o/ /o I've finally come to my senses; changed from '| ' to ' '. Now it's up o/ /o to that other pagan, David, to change ;) O / / / O O / / / O And there was much rejoicing... ;-)

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread David T-G
Nick -- ...and then Nick Wilson said... % % * On 22-01-02 at 09:17 % * Thomas Hurst said % % Like mine? It's only 6 lines, and it's *so* useful. Honest.. % % I think yours might be just a little much, I'm getting my arse kicked % here about trimming, a six line attribution? That's as

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Preben Randhol
Brian Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/01/2002 (00:01) : It seems they're all LookOut users as well. Where the heck people get that crap is beyond me. I thought the program was called LockOut ;-) Another annoying thing is the 10 line disclaimer from companies that this is a private e-mail

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Preben Randhol
Cameron Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (22:12) : You can't. It's rude anyway. The amount of time you spend trimming stuff to just the relevant stuff is _more_ than outweghed by the time saved to the list members as a whole, not to mention the readability of the mail archives

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread René Clerc
* Preben Randhol [EMAIL PROTECTED] [22-01-2002 12:13]: Cameron Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (22:12) : You can't. It's rude anyway. The amount of time you spend trimming stuff to just the relevant stuff is _more_ than outweghed by the time saved to the list members as a

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Preben Randhol
René Clerc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/01/2002 (12:26) : Apart from the useful links, you're missing the point. Cameron was saying that the amount of time spent trimming is _outweighed_ by the time saved. That means that he means that one _should_ trim! This is not correct at all. It is

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread René Clerc
* Preben Randhol [EMAIL PROTECTED] [22-01-2002 12:28]: René Clerc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 22/01/2002 (12:26) : Apart from the useful links, you're missing the point. Cameron was saying that the amount of time spent trimming is _outweighed_ by the time saved. That means that he means

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
* On 22-01-02 at 12:28 * René Clerc said Apart from the useful links, you're missing the point. Cameron was saying that the amount of time spent trimming is _outweighed_ by the time saved. That means that he means that one _should_ trim! Thank god for that, I thought I was going mad :)

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
* On 22-01-02 at 12:43 * René Clerc said Apart from the useful links, you're missing the point. Cameron was saying that the amount of time spent trimming is _outweighed_ by the time saved. That means that he means that one _should_ trim! This is not correct at all. It is just

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Thomas E. Dickey
On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, Preben Randhol wrote: Cameron Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (22:12) : You can't. It's rude anyway. The amount of time you spend trimming stuff to just the relevant stuff is _more_ than outweghed by the time saved to the list members as a whole, not to

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Brian Clark
* David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 22. 2002 05:21]: ...and then Brian Clark said... % Hehe, no no, I meant *that exact quote prefix* :-) It'd take me % forever to find the thread in the archives because I wouldn't know % what to look Not so tough; just surf over to the archives site and

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Brian Clark
* Preben Randhol ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 22. 2002 06:07]: Another annoying thing is the 10 line disclaimer from companies that Especially when they are up top. this is a private e-mail and that if you have gotten it should return the e-mail to the company bla bla bla etc... I have always

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread David T-G
Brian -- ...and then Brian Clark said... % % * David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 22. 2002 05:21]: % % ...and then Brian Clark said... % % % Hehe, no no, I meant *that exact quote prefix* :-) It'd take me % % forever to find the thread in the archives because I wouldn't know % % what to

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 22-01-02 at 15:06 * Brian Clark said * David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 22. 2002 05:21]: % for, but it was the thread where someone was picking on Dave's (%) % quote prefix. (I gather this isn't the first time someone on the %

Re: back to quoting (was Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers)

2002-01-22 Thread David T-G
Nick -- ...and then Nick Wilson said... % % * On 22-01-02 at 15:06 % * Brian Clark said % % * David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 22. 2002 05:21]: % % % for, but it was the thread where someone was picking on Dave's (%) % % quote prefix. (I gather this isn't the first time someone

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Rob 'Feztaa' Park
Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus: How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user? Are you blind?? I'm /registered/ blind. But I see okay in reasonable light. Good to know. Now I have to ask everybody else... -- Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- The Love Bird is 100% faithful to

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Christian Schoepplein
Hi all! On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:43:40AM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote: This is irrelevant. Over-quoting is inconsiderate, and affects everyone. It causes us to have to wade through a bunch of irrelevant garbage to get at (and often FIND) the author's point. Quoting out of context (i.e.

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 22-01-02 at 18:08 * Christian Schoepplein said I agree 100%!!! To quote mails in the right way is helpful for anyboody and not only for blind or visually handicapped persons. I'm a blind computeruser and I get mor then 1000 mails the

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Mike Schiraldi
And you can add hard coded font sizes in websites to that list, I know you can overide stylesheets but it's annoying to have to go to such lengths to read sites like cnn.com. It's actually really easy to do in mozilla. Just add one line to your prefs.js and you're done, forever. No recurring

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Brian Foley
* David T-G [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] on [22-01-02] wrote: Hey! On whose side are you? Oh, the betrayal! % % -- % % Nick Wilson % % Tel:+45 3325 0688 % Fax:+45 3325 0677 % Web:www.explodingnet.com % David, Some people seem to be turning over a new leaf after

Re: back to quoting (was Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers)

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 22-01-02 at 15:58 * David T-G said % Anyone remember the subject or something of that thread, I'd like to % have a look at it. The subject was 'Quoting when replying', and it got nasty around 12/17. Whooa! That was almost as ugly as

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Christian Schoepplein
Hi Nick! On Die, Jan 22, 2002 at 06:18:35 +0100, Nick Wilson wrote: I agree 100%!!! To quote mails in the right way is helpful for anyboody and not only for blind or visually handicapped persons. I'm a blind computeruser and I get mor then 1000 mails the day and its really not funny

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-22 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * and then Christian Schoepplein blurted And you can add hard coded font sizes in websites to that list, I know you can overide stylesheets but it's annoying to have to go to such lengths to read sites like cnn.com. No, the problem

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Dave Price
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: Remember that for many blind users these messages are being spoken to the reader by a voder. Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim quotations when replying ordinarily, when replying to a blind user it becomes outright

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Thomas Hurst
* Dave Price ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim quotations when replying ordinarily, when replying to a blind user it becomes outright rude. Learn to use your screenreader better, and

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 14:40 * Thomas Hurst said * Dave Price ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim quotations when replying ordinarily,

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Preben Randhol
Dave Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:25) : Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip over quote chars at the start of a new line. There is no point in sending a load of quoted stuff to anybody. Cut it down to relevant part before you send. This is

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Preben Randhol
Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) : people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if we spend all our time worrying about every minority problem/consideration we'll never get *anything* done :) Is it not a minority problem. Preben -- () Join

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Thomas Hurst
* Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: * On 21-01-02 at 14:40 * Thomas Hurst said Being able to skip quotes is no excuse not to trim them; not caring whether people will simply ignore your message because it appears to have no content isn't either. How do you tell if you are

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 15:08 * Preben Randhol said Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) : people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if we spend all our time worrying about every minority

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 15:38 * Thomas Hurst said * Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user? You don't; quoting properly has nothing to do with who you're sending to, it's just basic email

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Derek D. Martin
At some point hitherto, Dave Price hath spake thusly: On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:25:56PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: to the reader by a voder. Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim quotations when replying ordinarily, when replying to a blind user it becomes outright rude.

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 16:47 * Derek D. Martin said Learn to use your screenreader better, and teach it to ignore or skip over quote chars at the start of a new line. That's a pretty inconsiderate attitude to take, and doesn't solve the

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Derek D. Martin
At some point hitherto, Nick Wilson hath spake thusly: * On 21-01-02 at 15:08 * Preben Randhol said Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) : people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if we spend all our time worrying about every

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 16:58 * Derek D. Martin said Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) : people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if we spend all our time worrying about every minority

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Preben Randhol
Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (17:20) : [snipped away several quotes that should have been cut down in the previous post] And there's where we differ, my point was just that the line above where preben decided to quote me was rather important. Is that where the hostile

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Preben Randhol
Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (16:50) : I think the quote is taken a little out of context. Bandwidth's a bugger on mailing lists huh? If you get about 1000 overquoted mails a day, it is. Preben -- () Join the worldwide campaign to protect fundamental human rights.

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 17:41 * Preben Randhol said Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (17:20) : And there's where we differ, my point was just that the line above where preben decided to quote me was rather important. Is that

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Derek D. Martin
At some point hitherto, Nick Wilson hath spake thusly: * On 21-01-02 at 16:58 * Derek D. Martin said [Preben said:] Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (14:47) : people did that they don't that would make my life easier. However, if we spend all our time

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 18:07 * Derek D. Martin said If you're not following the thread, but you suddenly decide it's important, GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! You've already received the e-mails, so you should have them. If you don't, there's

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread David T-G
Nick -- ...and then Nick Wilson said... % % I agree, I've been agreeing all along, I'm not sure where I've picked up % the 'Nick believes in over-quoting' badge. Not true, not true. Come, Nick... Join me... Join the dark side and piss off everyone on the mutt-users list... I am your father!

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread David T-G
Nick, et al -- ...and then Nick Wilson said... % % * On 21-01-02 at 18:07 % * Derek D. Martin said % % If you're not following the thread, but you suddenly decide it's % important, GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! You've already received the % e-mails, so you should have them. If you

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 18:27 * David T-G said % I agree, I've been agreeing all along, I'm not sure where I've picked up % the 'Nick believes in over-quoting' badge. Not true, not true. Come, Nick... Join me... Join the dark side and piss off

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Derek D. Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At some point hitherto, Nick Wilson hath spake thusly: If you're not following the thread, but you suddenly decide it's important, GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! You've already received the e-mails, so you should have them. If you don't,

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Derek D. Martin
At some point hitherto, David T-G hath spake thusly: % Disagree, all this GO BACK AND READ THE THREAD! nonsense is insulting. % Of course I've been reading the thread. I don't think the comment is directed at you; we know you've been reading. I think that the argument is that leaving in

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread David T-G
Nick -- ...and then Nick Wilson said... % % * On 21-01-02 at 18:27 % * David T-G said % % % the 'Nick believes in over-quoting' badge. Not true, not true. % % Come, Nick... Join me... Join the dark side and piss off everyone on % the mutt-users list... I am your father! % % Haha,

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Preben Randhol
Derek D. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 21/01/2002 (18:05) : See above where Preben said this is not a minority problem. He was refering to the fact that it is a much BROADER problem than just one that affects minorities. Your comment is irrelevant to that argument. (Preben: please

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Cameron Simpson
On 14:45 21 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | That would still leave you with a truckload of repeated and mostly | irrelevent cruft, and not only for someone using a screenreader. | | Being able to skip quotes is no excuse not to trim them; not caring | whether people will

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 22:15 * Cameron Simpson said | | How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user? You can't. It's rude anyway. The amount of time you spend trimming stuff Rude to do what? I don't follow you. to just the relevant

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 22:29 * Nick Wilson said Seeing as the sender of these next few lines didn't seem to want to send them to the list. Here they are in all thier glory. - --- Funny that your reply on 'not trimming' was hardly (if at

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread René Clerc
* David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] [21-01-2002 18:56]: [to Nick] You should change your quote char. I'd find '@' particularly annoying, and nobody is using it yet. I've finally come to my senses; changed from '| ' to ' '. Now it's up to that other pagan, David, to change ;) -- René Clerc

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Brian Foley
* Nick Wilson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] on [21-01-02] wrote: Seeing as the sender of these next few lines didn't seem to want to send them to the list. Here they are in all thier glory. I got this email, did you bounce it to mutt-users as well? I'm sorry guys but I feel that my messages are

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
* On 21-01-02 at 23:04 * René Clerc said * David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] [21-01-2002 18:56]: [to Nick] You should change your quote char. I'd find '@' particularly annoying, and nobody is using it yet. Reckon there could be a reason there David. Hehe. I've finally come to my

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 23:17 * Brian Foley said Some of the more extreme past members of this list would have blasted you out of the water for: a) using a two-line attribution at the top of all your quotes Oops, I just thought it looked neater

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Nick Wilson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 21-01-02 at 23:17 * Brian Foley said I got this email, did you bounce it to mutt-users as well? Yes, sorry about that I thought it would just end up in the thread where it belonged. - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Brian Clark
* Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 17:17]: You think that'll happen? I like the @ idea but I think or could be pretty bad too. Oh no, that's not the worst. I've seen something like this on this list in the past, *in jest*, in a similar thread: This line is quoted text

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Rob 'Feztaa' Park
Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus: How do you tell if you are sending to a blind user? Are you blind?? -- Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- People who think MS-DOS and Windows are the slickest thing since sliced butter should be forced to wear a sign stating This mind intentionally left

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Rob 'Feztaa' Park
Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus: * On 21-01-02 at 23:17 Brian Foley said Some of the more extreme past members of this list would have blasted you out of the water for: a) using a two-line attribution at the top of all your quotes Oops, I just thought it looked neater as it was a

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Jonathan Irving
Brian Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] [21 Jan 2002 17:56 -0500]: I've seen something like this on this list in the past, *in jest*, in a similar thread: This line is quoted text This line is quoted text Emacs and Pine both support per-message quote characters. I think the idea is to choose

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Brian Clark
* Jonathan Irving ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 18:57]: [...] Emacs and Pine both support per-message quote characters. I think the idea is to choose something that identifies the person, like: Hehe, no no, I meant *that exact quote prefix* :-) It'd take me forever to find the thread

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Jonathan Irving
Brian Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] [21 Jan 2002 19:04 -0500]: * Jonathan Irving ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 18:57]: Emacs and Pine both support per-message quote characters. I think the idea is to choose something that identifies the person, like: Hehe, no no, I meant *that exact

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Rob 'Feztaa' Park
Alas! Brian Clark spake thus: I've used clients like TheBat! before that do it as you've pointed out below: BCThis line is quoted text BCThis line is quoted text TheBat! is by far the best windows mail program I've seen (unless mutt is available for windows and I don't know about

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Derek D. Martin
At some point hitherto, René Clerc hath spake thusly: I've finally come to my senses; changed from '| ' to ' '. Now it's up to that other pagan, David, to change ;) And there was much rejoicing... ;-) -- Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Thomas Hurst
_Replying to a message_ By: Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mutt Users' List [EMAIL PROTECTED] On: Monday, January 21, 2002, 16:54:47 -0700 Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus: * On 21-01-02 at 23:17 Brian Foley said I think

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Thomas Hurst
No, the most annoying way is to indent using spaces, with Outlook style replies (i.e, 2-3 lines right at the top of the message). Nice huh? :) Several times I've found myself reading the quoted text thinking it's the actual reply and wondering why it looks so familiar.. * Brian Clark ([EMAIL

Re: blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-21 Thread Brian Clark
* Rob 'Feztaa' Park ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 21. 2002 20:05]: TheBat! is by far the best windows mail program I've seen (unless mutt is available for windows and I don't know about it). It sure beats Netscape Mail or LookOut, anyway. Yes, it's a good client. I used SecureBat! with the iKey

blind etiquette Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2002-01-20 Thread Cameron Simpson
John Kearney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ a big quote from Christian Schoepplein ] [ and then a short but useful suggestion ] Remember that for many blind users these messages are being spoken to the reader by a voder. Where it's merely inconsiderate to not trim quotations when replying

Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread Cristian
Hi Mutt folks, (this idea is for the Mutt developers but since the thread came up here, I'm continuing here. Btw. -- sorry for my recent duplicate post. It won't happen again, folder-hook works for me now.) There is another great use for an (optional) cursor in the internal pager -- you could

Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread Gary Johnson
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 04:15:08PM +0100, Cristian wrote: There is another great use for an (optional) cursor in the internal pager -- you could avoid using the urlview ripper. The only feature I miss in Mutt compared to Pine 4 is just this: Within the ususal message view, you use up and

Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread Daniel Eisenbud
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 04:15:08PM +0100, Cristian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mutt folks, (this idea is for the Mutt developers but since the thread came up here, I'm continuing here. Btw. -- sorry for my recent duplicate post. It won't happen again, folder-hook works for me now.) There

display-hooking w3m / was: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread Cristian
Hi Gary and all, why didn't I come up with this workaround? I use w3m regularly - I hacked my url_handler.sh into calling it when no Netscape is running (hardly recently) and as long as Opera refuses to take remote commands (although it says it understands them, Opera 5 and Opera 6 TP1 don't).

Re: display-hooking w3m / was: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread Gary Johnson
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:48:04PM +0100, Cristian wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:23:51AM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote: Display-hooks let you set w3m as the pager for just those messages that you know have a lot of embedded URLs, e.g., display-hook ~A 'set

Re: display-hooking w3m / was: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread Dan Boger
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 12:40:36PM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:48:04PM +0100, Cristian wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:23:51AM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote: Could you automate it? Could you find out whether there are more than, say, 3 URLs in a message body so it's

Re: display-hooking w3m / was: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread Gary Johnson
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 03:54:33PM -0500, Dan Boger wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 12:40:36PM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:48:04PM +0100, Cristian wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:23:51AM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote: Could you automate it? Could you find out

Re: display-hooking w3m / was: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-30 Thread MuttER
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:48:04PM +0100, Cristian wrote: Hi Gary and all, why didn't I come up with this workaround? I use w3m regularly - I hacked my url_handler.sh into calling it when no Netscape is running (hardly recently) and as long as Opera refuses to take remote commands

Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-29 Thread Thomas Roessler
On 2001-11-28 21:23:27 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote: I agree with you. Perhaps there could be an optional cursor for the internal pager. Any takers? I'd include such a patch with mutt pretty much immediately if it was clean. -- Thomas Roessler

Re: Bad Mail-Followup-To (was: mutt for blind computerusers)

2001-11-29 Thread Christian Schoepplein
Hi Vincent! On Don, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:01:31 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote: Christian, Your Mail-Followup-To header is broken: Mail-Followup-To: Christian Schoepplein [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] as [EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't exist, though your From header is correct. I

mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-28 Thread Christian Schoepplein
Hi, I'm a blind computeruser who wants to use mutt. Most things are working very fine, I had only to change a view settings in the standardconfiguration to get mutt working with my special screenreading software (suse-blinux) and hardware devices (brailledisplay and speechsynt). But one

Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-28 Thread Dan Boger
On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 08:26:35PM +0100, Christian Schoepplein wrote: Hi, I'm a blind computeruser who wants to use mutt. Most things are working very fine, I had only to change a view settings in the standardconfiguration to get mutt working with my special screenreading software

Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-28 Thread Daniel Eisenbud
You can use an external pager with mutt. This would at least be a good interim solution. set pager=view or something. -Daniel On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 08:26:35PM +0100, Christian Schoepplein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm a blind computeruser who wants to use mutt. Most things are

Re: mutt for blind computerusers

2001-11-28 Thread Daniel Eisenbud
On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 02:32:39PM -0500, Dan Boger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, a workaround might be instead of viewing messages with enter, view with 'e' - edit-message. that will open the message in your defined editor, and you can scroll through it there with the cursor... when done,

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