Re: Colo in Africa
The cloud isn't always the right decision for the end customer. In many cases, it's the worst decision. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Akshay Kumar via NANOG" To: "Ken Gilmour" Cc: "North Group" Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:55:12 AM Subject: Re: Colo in Africa The 2nd requirement seems artificial. The new hypervisors have come a long way and the overhead is minimal. Also you can run bare metal instances in AWS if you really need them with 100Gbps. Just just use the South Africa AWS region. On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 3:35 PM Ken Gilmour < ken.gilm...@gmail.com > wrote: Hi Folks, I work for a Security Analytics org and we're looking to build a small POP in Africa. I am pretty clueless about the region so I was wondering if you could help guide me in the right direction for research? The challenges: 1. Network needs to be able to receive millions of small PPS (as opposed to serving smaller numbers of larger files). 2. Can't be cloud (need bare metal servers / colo). We use the full capacity of each server, all the time. 3. Must have good connectivity to most of the rest of Africa 4. We can initially only have one POP This is not like a normal website that we can just host on "any old provider", the requirements are very different. Is there a good location where we could either rent bare metal servers (something like Internap - preferred) or colocate servers within Africa that can serve most of the region? "Good" is defined as an area with stable connectivity and power, no legal restrictions on things like encryption, and good latency (sub 100ms) to the rest of Africa. Our two closest POPs are in Singapore and The Netherlands, so I'd like something closer to the middle that can serve the rest of Africa. Middle East will be deployed after Africa. I hope this is the right place to ask. Thanks! Ken
Re: Performance metrics used in commercial BGP route optimizers
More like do whatever you want in your own house as long as you don't infringe upon others. The argument against route optimizers (assuming appropriate ingress\egress filters) is a religious one and should be treated as such. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Töma Gavrichenkov" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" , "Dimeji Fayomi" Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:53:46 AM Subject: Re: Performance metrics used in commercial BGP route optimizers On Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 5:49 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: Most of which are bunk if you and your upstream have appropriate filters. True, and, while we're at it, it's okay to drink and drive a car if the manufacturer has built enough driver assistance systems in it. -- Töma
Re: Performance metrics used in commercial BGP route optimizers
Most of which are bunk if you and your upstream have appropriate filters. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Töma Gavrichenkov" To: "Dimeji Fayomi" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:30:37 AM Subject: Re: Performance metrics used in commercial BGP route optimizers On Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 4:11 PM Dimeji Fayomi < o...@students.waikato.ac.nz > wrote: I'm doing a research on BGP route optimisation and the performance metrics used by commercial route optimizer appliances to select better path to a prefix. You may have discovered that already during your research, but just in case: basically, using those optimizers at full throttle is a bad practice and is generally discouraged. A research into the deep-juju of BGP optimization is roughly equivalent to a research about how alcohol may make you a faster driver. I.e. it's fine in academy but you certainly may want to emphasize security considerations in your paper. -- Töma
Re: Time and Timing Servers
Sure. They have a BITS service. I'm just checking out all of my options. It'd be nice to have my own stuff, but that may not be feasible (or possible once CDMA goes away). Are any of you coloed with Frontier? Have you gotten them to let you install a GPS antenna? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: ke...@contoocook.net To: "Karsten Elfenbein" , "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 3:49:35 PM Subject: Re: Time and Timing Servers I know that many places hosting telecom gear provide "BITS Clock" this is a DS1 with timing. Ask about that, it's an alternative to providing your own. - Original Message - From: "Karsten Elfenbein" To: "Mike Hammett" Sent: Thursday, July 11 2019 03:22:01 PM Subject: Re: Time and Timing Servers I think you are referencing their chip scale atomic clocks. Which are very frequency stable. But still need phase alignment. (Mobile UPS anyone?) Maybe some peers can provide transparent or boundry clock support. Or someone close by in the DC can add an antenna splitter. Karsten Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > s chrieb am Do., 11. Juli 2019, 16:31: There were a lot of NTP threads several weeks ago, but I didn't get an answer to my question amongst all of the other chatter. I'm looking for a device that can receive GPS inside a building without the assistance of an external antenna (Frontier says they no longer allow external antenna), will provide traditional NTP services, and will provide a timing signal that my Metaswitch can work with. I know that MicroSemi via Symmetricom makes these kinds of devices, but I'm hoping to look at multiple manufacturers and compare. Thanks. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Re: Time and Timing Servers
They can do BITS, but that doesn't solve all of my problems. That said, I may have to do many things if I can't find my wonder box. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Chris Boyd" To: "NANOG" Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 10:03:02 AM Subject: Re: Time and Timing Servers > On Jul 11, 2019, at 10:29 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > I'm looking for a device that can receive GPS inside a building without the > assistance of an external antenna (Frontier says they no longer allow > external antenna), will provide traditional NTP services, and will provide a > timing signal that my Metaswitch can work with. Since it’s a telco facility, maybe they can provide BITS service. Worth asking. —Chris
Re: Time and Timing Servers
I'll look into Meinberg. I recent thread mentioned high-sensitivity receivers often allow GPS to work inside. Obviously "inside" has a lot of definitions. I will need this facility for the TDM timing signals. It's a central office, not a datacenter. I don't know that Internet-based NTP would be accurate enough for the timing signals that I need. Maybe, maybe not. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Majdi S. Abbas" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:54:26 AM Subject: Re: Time and Timing Servers On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 09:29:46AM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: > There were a lot of NTP threads several weeks ago, but I didn't get an answer > to my question amongst all of the other chatter. > > I'm looking for a device that can receive GPS inside a building without the > assistance of an external antenna (Frontier says they no longer allow > external antenna), will provide traditional NTP services, and will provide > a timing signal that my Metaswitch can work with. Unfortunately, L band satellite signals are incredibly weak by the time they reach the surface. It's very unlikely this is going to work for you (unless it's a wood framed single story building.) Generally, I try to ensure that a GNSS antenna is built into the contract, to avoid games like this. You have two options: A) Find a new colocation provider. This may already be on your to-do list for other reasons. B) Rely on the Internet for timing, using NTP or PTP from another location to backfeed the site, and use a box with a good stable oscillator to keep time (this can actually be a commercial time server with decent holdover characteristics. If you're just looking for alternatives to Microsemi, I highly recommend talking to the fine folks at Meinberg. --msa
Re: Time and Timing Servers
Isn't a major problem with CDMA-based sources that the networks they depend on are getting shut down? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ethan O'Toole" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:46:24 AM Subject: Re: Time and Timing Servers > I'm looking for a device that can receive GPS inside a building without > the assistance of an external antenna (Frontier says they no longer > allow external antenna), will provide traditional NTP services, and will > provide a timing signal that my Metaswitch can work with. GPS inside a building probably isn't going to work unless you have the antenna up against a window. Look at CDMA NTP Servers like the EndRun Sonoma. They use the cellular network which requires accurate timing and has good building penetration. - Ethan O'Toole
Time and Timing Servers
There were a lot of NTP threads several weeks ago, but I didn't get an answer to my question amongst all of the other chatter. I'm looking for a device that can receive GPS inside a building without the assistance of an external antenna (Frontier says they no longer allow external antenna), will provide traditional NTP services, and will provide a timing signal that my Metaswitch can work with. I know that MicroSemi via Symmetricom makes these kinds of devices, but I'm hoping to look at multiple manufacturers and compare. Thanks. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Re: few big monolithic PEs vs many small PEs
Big routers also mean they're a lot more expensive. You have to squeeze more life out of them because they cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars. You run them longer than you really should. If you run more, smaller, $20k or $30k routers, you'll replace them on a more reasonable cycle. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: adamv0...@netconsultings.com To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:22:45 PM Subject: few big monolithic PEs vs many small PEs Hi folks, Recently I ran into a peculiar situation where we had to cap couple of PE even though merely a half of the rather big chassis was populated with cards, reason being that the central RE/RP was not able to cope with the combined number of routes/vrfs/bgp sessions/etc.. So this made me think about the best strategy in building out SP-Edge nowadays (yes I'm aware of the centralize/decentralize pendulum swinging every couple of years). The conclusion I came to was that *currently the best approach would be to use several medium to small(fixed) PEs to replace a big monolithic chasses based system. So what I was thinking is, Yes it will cost a bit more (router is more expensive than a LC) Will end up with more prefixes in IGP, more BGP sessions etc.. -don't care. But the benefits are less eggs in one basket, simplified and hence faster testing in case of specialized PEs and obviously better RP CPU/MEM to port ratio. Am I missing anything please? *currently, Yes some old chassis systems or even multi-chassis systems used to support additional RPs and offloading some of the processes (e.g. BGP onto those) -problem is these are custom hacks and still a single OS which needs rebooting LC/ASICs when being upgraded -so the problem of too many eggs in one basket still exists (yes cisco NCS6k and recent ASR9k lightspeed LCs are an exception) And yes there is the "node-slicing" approach from Juniper where one can offload CP onto multiple x86 servers and assign LCs to each server (virtual node) - which would solve my chassis full problem -but honestly how many of you are running such setup? Exactly. And that's why I'd be hesitant to deploy this solution in production just yet. I don't know of any other vendor solution like this one, but who knows maybe in 5 years this is going to be the new standard. Anyways I need a solution/strategy for the next 3-5 years. Would like to hear what are your thoughts on this conundrum. adam netconsultings.com ::carrier-class solutions for the telecommunications industry::
Re: few big monolithic PEs vs many small PEs
I've ran into many providers where they had routers in the top 10 or 15 markets... and that was it. If you wanted a connection in South Bend or Indianapolis or New Orleans or Ohio or... you were backhauled potentially hundreds of miles to a nearby big market. More smaller POPs reduces the tromboning. More smaller POPs means that one POP's outage isn't as disastrous on the traffic rerouting around it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: adamv0...@netconsultings.com To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:22:45 PM Subject: few big monolithic PEs vs many small PEs Hi folks, Recently I ran into a peculiar situation where we had to cap couple of PE even though merely a half of the rather big chassis was populated with cards, reason being that the central RE/RP was not able to cope with the combined number of routes/vrfs/bgp sessions/etc.. So this made me think about the best strategy in building out SP-Edge nowadays (yes I'm aware of the centralize/decentralize pendulum swinging every couple of years). The conclusion I came to was that *currently the best approach would be to use several medium to small(fixed) PEs to replace a big monolithic chasses based system. So what I was thinking is, Yes it will cost a bit more (router is more expensive than a LC) Will end up with more prefixes in IGP, more BGP sessions etc.. -don't care. But the benefits are less eggs in one basket, simplified and hence faster testing in case of specialized PEs and obviously better RP CPU/MEM to port ratio. Am I missing anything please? *currently, Yes some old chassis systems or even multi-chassis systems used to support additional RPs and offloading some of the processes (e.g. BGP onto those) -problem is these are custom hacks and still a single OS which needs rebooting LC/ASICs when being upgraded -so the problem of too many eggs in one basket still exists (yes cisco NCS6k and recent ASR9k lightspeed LCs are an exception) And yes there is the "node-slicing" approach from Juniper where one can offload CP onto multiple x86 servers and assign LCs to each server (virtual node) - which would solve my chassis full problem -but honestly how many of you are running such setup? Exactly. And that's why I'd be hesitant to deploy this solution in production just yet. I don't know of any other vendor solution like this one, but who knows maybe in 5 years this is going to be the new standard. Anyways I need a solution/strategy for the next 3-5 years. Would like to hear what are your thoughts on this conundrum. adam netconsultings.com ::carrier-class solutions for the telecommunications industry::
Re: few big monolithic PEs vs many small PEs
" It is not economical or even physically possible to have an MPLS device next to every DSLAM, hence the aggregation." https://mikrotik.com/product/RB750r2 MSRP $39.95 I readily admit that this device isn't large enough for most cases, but you can get cheap and small MPLS routers. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Tarko Tikan" To: adamv0...@netconsultings.com, nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 2:51:20 AM Subject: Re: few big monolithic PEs vs many small PEs hey, > So what is the primary goal of us using the aggregation/access layer? It's to > achieve better utilization of the expensive router ports right? (hence called > aggregation) I'm in the eyeball business so saving router ports is not a primary concern. Aggregation exists to aggregate downstream access devices like DSLAMs, OLTs etc. First of all they have interfaces that are not available in your typical PEs. Secondly they are physically located further downstream, closer to the customers. It is not economical or even physically possible to have an MPLS device next to every DSLAM, hence the aggregation. Eyeball network topologies are very much driven by fiber layout that might have been built 10+ years ago following TDM network best practices (rings). Ideally (and if your market situation and finances allow this) you want your access device (or in PON case, perhaps even a OLT linecard) to be only SPOF. If you now uplink this access device to a PE, PE linecard becomes a SPOF for many, let's say 40 as this is a typical port count, access devices. If you don't want this to happen you can use second fiber pair for second uplink but you typically don't have fiber to second aggregation site. So your only option is to build on same fiber (so thats a SPOF too) to the same site. If you now uplink to same PE, you will still loose both uplinks during software upgrades. Two devices will help with that making aggregation upgrades invisible for customers thus improving customer satisfaction. Again, it very much depends on market, in here the customers get nosy if they have more than one or two planned maintenances in a year (and this is not for some premium L3VPN service but just internet). -- tarko
Re: Birch/Primus/Fusion Network ASN integration?
I still have SIP connections to the Globalinx system to IPs that are in 17184. I don't believe this part was migrated yet because whenever I call in for support issues, no one has any idea how to find the configured accounts. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Erik Sundberg" To: "Mike Hammett" , "Eric Kuhnke" Cc: "nanog@nanog.org list" Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 4:33:58 PM Subject: RE: Birch/Primus/Fusion Network ASN integration? The Globalinx network was migrated into the Fusion network earlier this year about 27 Weeks Ago is what my router interface tells me. We ended up running new interconnects with them and changing peering from Globalinx’s ASN to the Fusion Network ASN 11696. The birch ASN 17184 is reachable via AS11696. I am not sure if this was a special setup for us or not. This is for the legacy Globalinx Network AS46191 199.x.84.0/24 and 199.x.85.0/24 if you were connecting to the 5Linx / Globalinx Broadsoft environment. -Erik From: NANOG < nanog-boun...@nanog.org > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:18 PM To: Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > Cc: nanog@nanog.org list < nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Birch/Primus/Fusion Network ASN integration? I connect to Globalinx (another Birch acquisition) via AS17184. It looks like they also have AS16526. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Eric Kuhnke" < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > To: "TJ Trout" < t...@pcguys.us > Cc: " nanog@nanog.org list " < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:13:11 AM Subject: Re: Birch/Primus/Fusion Network ASN integration? Mea culpa. I'm actually not finding much for Fusion Connect Inc. in terms of normal BGP presence (peeringdb page, an AS that's known to tools like the bgp.he.net tool, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_Communications AS20175 Birch Communications Inc. doesn't appear to be doing much of anything There's also this, which is one of their earlier acquisitions: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/3238 On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 12:42 AM TJ Trout < t...@pcguys.us > wrote: wrong fusion on peering db On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 10:35 PM Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: Hey all, I'm looking for any info that might be publicly available regarding intentions to merge the Primus ASN into Birch/Fusion Network, or whether it will remain its own thing. Primus acquired by Birch: https://primus.ca/index.php/bc_en/news-and-events/primus-news-birch-completes-purchase-of-primus-telecommunications-assets-in-canada/ Birch acquired by Fusion: https://primus.ca/index.php/yt_en/news-and-events/primus-news-fusion-announces-closing-of-birch-acquisition/ primus: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/2811 fusion: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/4608 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
Re: Traffic ratio of an ISP
The problem you're running into, Prasun, is that people either aren't actually reading what you're saying or have poor comprehension skills. Very few people are directly addressing what you're asking. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Prasun Dey" To: "Josh Luthman" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:42:38 PM Subject: Re: Traffic ratio of an ISP Josh, That’s great. I’m assuming your traffic is mainly inbound. So, my question is, do you have a threshold that defines your traffic ratio type. I’m taking an example from this thread. Say, your average incoming traffic is ~45 gbps, and outgoing traffic is ~4.5 gbps. So, your outbound:inbound = 1:10. What are you? Heavy Inbound? Extending this example, if your ratio is 1:7 or 1:6, then, what would you claim to be? A ‘Mostly Inbound’? Or still call yourself as Heavy Inbound? I’m just trying to understand what is the community practice? Thank you. - Prasun Regards, Prasun Kanti Dey Ph.D. Candidate, Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering, University of Central Florida web: https://prasunkantidey.github.io/portfolio/ On Jun 19, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: >my question was more like to understand when an ISP decides to claim itself as >any of these (Heavy Outbound/ Inbound or Balanced) Maybe I'm missing something but it's as simple as looking at the interface graphs. We see a whole lot of green for inbound and a little little blue line for outbound. We are an ISP with residential and commercial customers. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:20 PM Prasun Dey < pra...@nevada.unr.edu > wrote: Hi Martijn and Josh, Thank you for your detailed explanation. Let me explain my requirement so that you may help me better. According to PeeringDB, Charter (Access), Sprint (Transit), Amazon (Content) all three of them are ‘Balanced’. While, Cable One, an Access ISP says it is Heavy Inbound, while Akamai, Netflix (Content) are Heavy Outbound. On the other hand, Cox, another access ISP, it says that it is Mostly Inbound. So, my question was more like to understand when an ISP decides to claim itself as any of these (Heavy Outbound/ Inbound or Balanced)? From an ISP’s own point of view, at what point, it says, my outbound:inbound is something, so I’m Heavy Outbound. Please ignore my lack of knowledge in this area. I’m sorry I should’ve done a better job in formulating my question earlier. Thank you. - Prasun Regards, Prasun Kanti Dey Ph.D. Candidate, Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering, University of Central Florida web: https://prasunkantidey.github.io/portfolio/ On Jun 19, 2019, at 2:13 PM, i3D.net - Martijn Schmidt < martijnschm...@i3d.net > wrote: It kinda depends on the application that's being used. For example, videogaming has a ratio somewhere around 1:2.5 since you're only transmitting metadata about the players environment across the wire. The actual video is typically rendered at the end user's side. So it's not very bandwidth heavy. Compare that with a videostream (watching a movie or TV series) and you're pumping the rendered video across the wire, so there's a very different ratio. Your return path traffic would pretty much consist of control stuff only (like pushing the pause button). Some networks are dedicated to serving one type of content, whereas others might have a blend of different kinds of content. Same story for an access network geared to business users which want to use emails and such, vs residential end users looking for the evening's entertainment. Best regards, Martijn On 19 June 2019 19:54:45 CEST, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: If you're asking an ISP, consumers will always be inbound. It's the end user. The outbound would be where the information is coming from, like data centers. I'm not sure you're going to get any better answer without a more specific question. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:50 PM Prasun Dey < pra...@nevada.unr.edu > wrote: Hello, Good morning. I’m a Ph.D. candidate from University of Central Florida. I have a query, I hope you can help me with it or at least point me to the right direction. I’ve seen from PeeringDB that every ISP reveals its traffic ratio as Heavy/ Mostly Inbound or Balanced or Heavy/ Mostly Outbound. I’m wondering if there is any specific ratio numbers for them. In Norton’s Internet Peering Playbook or some other literary work, they mention the outbound:inbound traffic ratio as 1:1.2 to up to 1:3 for Balan
Re: Traffic ratio of an ISP
Yes, you seem to misunderstand (at least of what I understand). PeeringDB has categories of ratios to choose from. What has the community decided is acceptable ratios for each category? It's fairly trivial for any network to determine what their ratio is as a number, but not necessarily as a PeeringDB label. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Josh Luthman" To: "Prasun Dey" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:23:33 PM Subject: Re: Traffic ratio of an ISP >my question was more like to understand when an ISP decides to claim itself as >any of these (Heavy Outbound/ Inbound or Balanced) Maybe I'm missing something but it's as simple as looking at the interface graphs. We see a whole lot of green for inbound and a little little blue line for outbound. We are an ISP with residential and commercial customers. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:20 PM Prasun Dey < pra...@nevada.unr.edu > wrote: Hi Martijn and Josh, Thank you for your detailed explanation. Let me explain my requirement so that you may help me better. According to PeeringDB, Charter (Access), Sprint (Transit), Amazon (Content) all three of them are ‘Balanced’. While, Cable One, an Access ISP says it is Heavy Inbound, while Akamai, Netflix (Content) are Heavy Outbound. On the other hand, Cox, another access ISP, it says that it is Mostly Inbound. So, my question was more like to understand when an ISP decides to claim itself as any of these (Heavy Outbound/ Inbound or Balanced)? From an ISP’s own point of view, at what point, it says, my outbound:inbound is something, so I’m Heavy Outbound. Please ignore my lack of knowledge in this area. I’m sorry I should’ve done a better job in formulating my question earlier. Thank you. - Prasun Regards, Prasun Kanti Dey Ph.D. Candidate, Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering, University of Central Florida web: https://prasunkantidey.github.io/portfolio/ On Jun 19, 2019, at 2:13 PM, i3D.net - Martijn Schmidt < martijnschm...@i3d.net > wrote: It kinda depends on the application that's being used. For example, videogaming has a ratio somewhere around 1:2.5 since you're only transmitting metadata about the players environment across the wire. The actual video is typically rendered at the end user's side. So it's not very bandwidth heavy. Compare that with a videostream (watching a movie or TV series) and you're pumping the rendered video across the wire, so there's a very different ratio. Your return path traffic would pretty much consist of control stuff only (like pushing the pause button). Some networks are dedicated to serving one type of content, whereas others might have a blend of different kinds of content. Same story for an access network geared to business users which want to use emails and such, vs residential end users looking for the evening's entertainment. Best regards, Martijn On 19 June 2019 19:54:45 CEST, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: If you're asking an ISP, consumers will always be inbound. It's the end user. The outbound would be where the information is coming from, like data centers. I'm not sure you're going to get any better answer without a more specific question. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:50 PM Prasun Dey < pra...@nevada.unr.edu > wrote: Hello, Good morning. I’m a Ph.D. candidate from University of Central Florida. I have a query, I hope you can help me with it or at least point me to the right direction. I’ve seen from PeeringDB that every ISP reveals its traffic ratio as Heavy/ Mostly Inbound or Balanced or Heavy/ Mostly Outbound. I’m wondering if there is any specific ratio numbers for them. In Norton’s Internet Peering Playbook or some other literary work, they mention the outbound:inbound traffic ratio as 1:1.2 to up to 1:3 for Balanced. But, I couldn’t find the other values. I’d really appreciate your help if you can please mention what Outbound:Inbound ratios that network admins use frequently to represent their traffic ratios for 1. Heavy Inbound: 2. Mostly Inbound: 3. Mostly Outbound: 4. Heavy Outbound: Thank you. - Prasun -- Sincerely, Prasun Kanti Dey, Ph.D. candidate, Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering, University of Central Florida. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: BGP person from Bell Canada/AS577
I'm curious as to why someone would want to do this? My interest is education, not combative. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Jason Lixfeld" To: "NANOG" Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:24:39 AM Subject: BGP person from Bell Canada/AS577 Hello, I’m looking to make contact with someone at Bell Canada/AS577 who is able to perform BGP prefix filtering facing their on-prem Akamai caches. Normal sales rep and NOC channels are not producing any meaningful results so far. Thanks in advance!
Re: Birch/Primus/Fusion Network ASN integration?
I connect to Globalinx (another Birch acquisition) via AS17184. It looks like they also have AS16526. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Eric Kuhnke" To: "TJ Trout" Cc: "nanog@nanog.org list" Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:13:11 AM Subject: Re: Birch/Primus/Fusion Network ASN integration? Mea culpa. I'm actually not finding much for Fusion Connect Inc. in terms of normal BGP presence (peeringdb page, an AS that's known to tools like the bgp.he.net tool, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_Communications AS20175 Birch Communications Inc. doesn't appear to be doing much of anything There's also this, which is one of their earlier acquisitions: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/3238 On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 12:42 AM TJ Trout < t...@pcguys.us > wrote: wrong fusion on peering db On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 10:35 PM Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: Hey all, I'm looking for any info that might be publicly available regarding intentions to merge the Primus ASN into Birch/Fusion Network, or whether it will remain its own thing. Primus acquired by Birch: https://primus.ca/index.php/bc_en/news-and-events/primus-news-birch-completes-purchase-of-primus-telecommunications-assets-in-canada/ Birch acquired by Fusion: https://primus.ca/index.php/yt_en/news-and-events/primus-news-fusion-announces-closing-of-birch-acquisition/ primus: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/2811 fusion: https://www.peeringdb.com/net/4608
Re: CenturyLink/Level 3 combined AS
I wouldn't expect them to be integrated for at least another decade. Global Crossing AS3549 still exists with over 2,000 peer ASNs, yet Level 3 acquired them in 2011. Time Warner Telecom was acquired in 2014 and it still has 89 peer ASNs. Centurylink bought Digital Teleport in 2003 and their ASN is still out there. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Darin Steffl" To: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 11:01:46 AM Subject: CenturyLink/Level 3 combined AS Hey all, Are there plans for CL and Level3 to combine AS's into one network? If not, do they actively peer and route traffic through each other's networks at least? Basically we're looking at picking up 1G of CL and wondering if it's near the same quality as Level3 in terms of latency and packet loss. Thanks -- Darin Steffl Minnesota WiFi www.mnwifi.com 507-634-WiFi Like us on Facebook
Re: CenturyLink/Level3 feedback
It's amazing how inconsistent the PSTN is. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Dovid Bender" To: "Larry Brower" Cc: "nanog" Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 3:31:36 PM Subject: Re: CenturyLink/Level3 feedback For voice there are so many IP options I don't know why anyone even messes with the old school carriers. About 4 years ago we signed up for L3 VoIP. We sent calls to France and the callerID didn't make it. We opened a ticket we were told callerID wasn't guaranteed on international calls. That was the day we canceled our service and asked for a refund. I am sometimes amazed how some of these carriers still have customers signing up. On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 8:50 AM Brower, Larry < larry.bro...@aramcoservices.com > wrote: Mehmet, Speaking strictly on their voice product, service has gone a bit downhill since the merger. We never had problems with Level3 before the merger. After Centurylink took over we started experiencing problems. Just a couple of examples: We waited months just to turn up a simple PRI. The PRI was sent back to design several times and then when it finally was turned up it isn’t working properly. The CL techs who were formally L3 express nothing but frustration with dealing with CL following the merger. Complaints to the account manager are met with just apologies and delays. International call routing has become unreliable. In the last month alone we have had to create several service requests related to call failures. The result after anywhere from a couple hours to a day is just hey we rerouted try again. Then it works for a couple days and back to call failures and intercept messages. I’ve already been asked if we should drop CenturyLink as the carrier and go back to using someone like AT Never had any of these issue when it was Level3. Regards, Larry Brower, CCNP Collaboration, SSCA, RHCSA, CCDA, CCNA Communications Technician | Unified Communications Group Aramco Services Company Office: 713.432.4516 | Mobile: 832.570.5416 larry.bro...@aramcoservices.com This email has been classified as: General Use by Brower, Larry on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 From: NANOG < nanog-boun...@nanog.org > On Behalf Of Mehmet Akcin Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:31 AM To: nanog < nanog@nanog.org > Subject: CenturyLink/Level3 feedback EXTERNAL: This email came from the Internet. Report this message to ascsuspiciousem...@aramcoservices.com as suspicious if it contains any suspicious content. hi there, Just a general high-level question about Centurylink/Level3 post-merger, how is your overall experience with CenturyLink? if you could be sitting with the CEO of the company what is one thing you would ask him to fix? please keep it high level and general. i intend to pass these to him and his team in an upcoming meeting. Mehmet
Re: CenturyLink/Level3 feedback
Anything more than a week for things not requiring last mile construction is ridiculous. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "JASON BOTHE via NANOG" To: "Mehmet Akcin" Cc: "nanog" Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:56:14 AM Subject: Re: CenturyLink/Level3 feedback It’s taking over a year to get waves turned up in EU. I’m currently willing to wager on what comes up first, them or amazon peering (that’s taking just as long). After the merger, we have seen Level3 slide into the CL abyss becoming a pain to deal with. Pricing and ordering has been outsourced we’ve been told and decisions are no longer at a regional level. Frustrating at best. > On Jun 4, 2019, at 09:30, Mehmet Akcin wrote: > > hi there, > > Just a general high-level question about Centurylink/Level3 post-merger, how > is your overall experience with CenturyLink? if you could be sitting with the > CEO of the company what is one thing you would ask him to fix? > > please keep it high level and general. i intend to pass these to him and his > team in an upcoming meeting. > > Mehmet
Re: CenturyLink/Level3 feedback
Almost every M has been worse. The bulk of the times it hasn't been worse is when the alternative was liquidation. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mehmet Akcin" To: "Danny Pinto" Cc: "nanog" Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 5:31:23 AM Subject: Re: CenturyLink/Level3 feedback In recent years at least i can not remember a single telco m which has resulted with better service and product. The question is how fast they can go back to the level of service they were providing prior, because during mergers lots of talent walk away, and often misalignments happen burning people out(depending who is buying who) On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 04:54 Danny Pinto < danny.pi...@zoho.com > wrote: Adding couple of 10G ports in EU has taken 4 months .. still waiting. Can start to imagine how support can be .. As telcos grow bigger with M they become slower. How can telcos sustain / install agility as they grow ? Could be interesting study on telco corp culture Danny On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:00:54 +0530 Mehmet Akcin< meh...@akcin.net > wrote hi there, Just a general high-level question about Centurylink/Level3 post-merger, how is your overall experience with CenturyLink? if you could be sitting with the CEO of the company what is one thing you would ask him to fix? please keep it high level and general. i intend to pass these to him and his team in an upcoming meeting. Mehmet -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Re: Spamming of NANOG list members
There's little doubt that this thread has caused an order of magnitude more messages in people's inboxes than the SPAM they're talking about. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: b...@theworld.com To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 3:18:42 PM Subject: Re: Spamming of NANOG list members WARNING: I AM ABOUT TO PONTIFICATE! Many of the lists etc I'm on get spamt and that's followed by a stream of "we're getting spamt!" (either directly or scraped) agonizing, over and over. I've been involved in the spam problems since before some of you were bornt (ok I'll stop with the stupid past participles), late 90s, and the net since the 1970s. Instead of this non-stop quarter century of agonizing maybe it's high time to admit failure, that we designed a system which is subject to spam and that was a mistake, a big mistake. I know, where's the FUSSP, the proposal, so you can shoot it down? I won't do that, not here. But I do think we need, and have needed for a couple of decades, some sort of radical rethink. Times have changed, ideas which were not practical 20 years ago are perhaps possible today due to, if nothing else, cheaper, faster hardware and networks etc. I guess I'm an idealist but I also get a little sick of the endless cycle of complaining, agonizing, and assertions that everything has been tried and nothing can help which mostly amount to we like/hate email just as it is. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
Re: BGP prefix filter list
If networks are going to make unconventional announcements, I'm not concerned if they suffer because of it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Sabri Berisha" To: "Ross Tajvar" Cc: "nanog" Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 12:03:52 PM Subject: Re: BGP prefix filter list Hi, They can, but they don't necessarily have to. In the example I mentioned, there was a private peering between them. Well, until very recently. My point being that it's not always black and white, and sometimes deaggregation is necessary for operational purposes. That's not to excuse lazy operators of course. Thanks, Sabri - On May 22, 2019, at 11:23 AM, Ross Tajvar wrote: In that case shouldn't each company advertise a /21? On Wed, May 22, 2019, 1:11 PM Sabri Berisha < sa...@cluecentral.net > wrote: Hi, One legitimate reason is the split of companies. In some cases, IP space needs to be divided up. For example, company A splits up in AA and AB, and has a /20. Company AA may advertise the /20, while the new AB may advertise the top or bottom /21. I know of at least one worldwide e-commerce company that is in that situation. Thanks, Sabri - On May 22, 2019, at 9:40 AM, Tom Beecher wrote: There are sometimes legitimate reasons to have a covering aggregate with some more specific announcements. Certainly there's a lot of cleanup that many should do in this area, but it might not be the best approach to this issue. On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 5:30 AM Alejandro Acosta < alejandroacostaal...@gmail.com > wrote: On 5/20/19 7:26 PM, John Kristoff wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 2019 23:09:02 + > Seth Mattinen < se...@rollernet.us > wrote: > >> A good start would be killing any /24 announcement where a covering >> aggregate exists. > I wouldn't do this as a general rule. If an attacker knows networks are > 1) not pointing default, 2) dropping /24's, 3) not validating the > aggregates, and 4) no actual legitimate aggregate exists, (all > reasonable assumptions so far for many /24's), then they have a pretty > good opportunity to capture that traffic. +1 John Seth approach could be an option _only_ if prefix has an aggregate exists && as origin are the same > John
Re: Spamming of NANOG list members
Almost always indiscriminately. They probably would be wise to avoid mailing lists of sys admins, network admins, etc., but they don't. *shrugs* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "William Herrin" To: "Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." Cc: "J. Hellenthal via NANOG" Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 10:14:47 AM Subject: Re: Spamming of NANOG list members On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 8:08 AM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. < amitch...@isipp.com > wrote: Question: Is the member list with email addresses public?? Otherwise, one has to wonder how they got these addresses? Everyone who posts does so with an email address that becomes known to everyone who subscribes and published everywhere someone publicly archives the messages. It's common practice by spammers to harvest addresses by subscribing to mailing lists. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin b...@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
Re: Free Program to take netflow
nProbe as well. I was just checking if the setup was made simpler. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Niels Bakker" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 8:34:49 AM Subject: Re: Free Program to take netflow * na...@ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) [Wed 22 May 2019, 14:40 CEST]: >The last time I looked, Esastiflow didn't accept a BGP session to learn ASes. >Has that changed? You can put pmacct inbetween to alleviate this. -- Niels.
Re: Free Program to take netflow
The last time I looked, Esastiflow didn't accept a BGP session to learn ASes. Has that changed? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Crist Clark" To: "Dennis Burgess" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 11:19:02 PM Subject: Re: Free Program to take netflow Been loving Elastiflow. Way overkill for what you need, but it's actually pretty easy to setup. https://github.com/robcowart/elastiflow On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 7:25 AM Dennis Burgess via NANOG wrote: > > I am looking for a free program to take netflow and output what the top > traffic ASes to and from my AS are. Something that we can look at every once > in a while, and/or spin up and get data then shutdown.. Just have two ports > need netflow from currently. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer > > Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” > > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services > > Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net > > Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com > >
Re: Free Program to take netflow
I've done that a couple ways. I've used a nProbe license to add the ASN information in. There are other utilities that do this, but I forgot what they are. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Dennis Burgess via NANOG" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 8:36:47 AM Subject: RE: Free Program to take netflow Please let me clarify. Currently the Netflow data that this customer is sending does NOT supply AS information. So I need something to generate that AS data and display. The goal is to figure out where we need to peer next. Where the top traffic is coming in from (what AS) on our paid transit. Dennis Burgess, From: NANOG On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess via NANOG Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 9:27 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Free Program to take netflow I am looking for a free program to take netflow and output what the top traffic ASes to and from my AS are. Something that we can look at every once in a while, and/or spin up and get data then shutdown.. Just have two ports need netflow from currently. Thanks in advance. Dennis Burgess
Re: BGP prefix filter list
As an eyeball network myself, you'll probably want to look at those things. You don't need to run a CDN to know where your bits are going. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Ca By" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Dan White" , nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:14:21 PM Subject: Re: BGP prefix filter list On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:52 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: You can't do uRPF if you're not taking full routes. I would never do uRPF , i am not a transit shop, so no problem there. BCP38 is as sexy as i get. You also have a more limited set of information for analytics if you don't have full routes. Yep, i don’t run a sophisticate internet CDN either. Just pumping packets from eyeballs to clouds and back, mostly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Ca By" < cb.li...@gmail.com > To: "Dan White" < dwh...@olp.net > Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 1:50:41 PM Subject: Re: BGP prefix filter list On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 7:27 AM Dan White < dwh...@olp.net > wrote: On 05/15/19 13:58 +, Phil Lavin wrote: >> We're an eyeball network. We accept default routes from our transit >> providers so in theory there should be no impact on reachability. >> >> I'm pretty concerned about things that I don't know due to inefficient >> routing, e.g. customers hitting a public anycast DNS server in the wrong >> location resulting in Geolocation issues. > >Ah! Understood. The default route(s) was the bit I missed. Makes a lot of >sense if you can't justify buying new routers. > >Have you seen issues with Anycast routing thus far? One would assume that >routing would still be fairly efficient unless you're picking up transit >from non-local providers over extended L2 links. We've had no issues so far but this was a recent change. There was no noticeable change to outbound traffic levels. +1, there is no issue with this approach. i have been taking “provider routes” + default for a long time, works great. This makes sure you use each provider’s “customer cone” and SLA to the max while reducing your route load / churn. IMHO, you should only take full routes if your core business is providing full bgp feeds to downstrean transit customers. -- Dan White BTC Broadband Network Admin Lead Ph 918.366.0248 (direct) main: (918)366-8000 Fax 918.366.6610 email: dwh...@mybtc.com http://www.btcbroadband.com
Re: BGP prefix filter list
You can't do uRPF if you're not taking full routes. You also have a more limited set of information for analytics if you don't have full routes. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Ca By" To: "Dan White" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 1:50:41 PM Subject: Re: BGP prefix filter list On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 7:27 AM Dan White < dwh...@olp.net > wrote: On 05/15/19 13:58 +, Phil Lavin wrote: >> We're an eyeball network. We accept default routes from our transit >> providers so in theory there should be no impact on reachability. >> >> I'm pretty concerned about things that I don't know due to inefficient >> routing, e.g. customers hitting a public anycast DNS server in the wrong >> location resulting in Geolocation issues. > >Ah! Understood. The default route(s) was the bit I missed. Makes a lot of >sense if you can't justify buying new routers. > >Have you seen issues with Anycast routing thus far? One would assume that >routing would still be fairly efficient unless you're picking up transit >from non-local providers over extended L2 links. We've had no issues so far but this was a recent change. There was no noticeable change to outbound traffic levels. +1, there is no issue with this approach. i have been taking “provider routes” + default for a long time, works great. This makes sure you use each provider’s “customer cone” and SLA to the max while reducing your route load / churn. IMHO, you should only take full routes if your core business is providing full bgp feeds to downstrean transit customers. -- Dan White BTC Broadband Network Admin Lead Ph 918.366.0248 (direct) main: (918)366-8000 Fax 918.366.6610 email: dwh...@mybtc.com http://www.btcbroadband.com
Re: BGP prefix filter list
I wouldn't call it shaming the vendor. There are a ton of platforms out there by nearly every vendor that can't accommodate modern table sizes. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Baldur Norddahl" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 1:47:24 PM Subject: Re: BGP prefix filter list My purpose is not to shame the vendor, but anyway these are ZTE M6000. We are currently planing to implement Juniper MX204 instead, but not because of this incident. We just ran out of bandwidth and brand new MX204 are cheaper than 100G capable shelves for the old platform. Regards, Baldur On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:42 PM < mike.l...@gmail.com > wrote: Hello Baldur, What routers are you running? -Mike On May 15, 2019, at 11:22, Baldur Norddahl < baldur.nordd...@gmail.com > wrote: Hello On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: What is the most common platform people are using with such limitations? How long ago was it deprecated? We are a small network with approx 10k customers and two core routers. The routers are advertised as 2 million FIB and 10 million RIB. This morning at about 2 AM CET our iBGP session between the two core routers started flapping every 5 minutes. This is how long it takes to exchange the full table between the routers. The eBGP sessions to our transits were stable and never went down. The iBGP session is a MPLS multiprotocol BGP session that exhanges IPv4, IPv6 and VRF in a single session. We are working closely together with another ISP that have the same routers. His network went down as well. Nothing would help until I culled the majority of the IPv6 routes by installing a default IPv6 route together with a filter, that drops every IPv6 route received on our transits. After that I could not make any more experimentation. Need to have a maintenance window during the night. These routers have shared IPv4 and IPv6 memory space. My theory is that the combined prefix numbers is causing the problem. But it could also be some IPv6 prefix first seen this night, that triggers a bug. Or something else. Regards, Baldur
Re: BGP prefix filter list
Eh... you'll find it hard to get that past me. I know hundreds of self-funded ISPs that don't have route table size issues. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Jon Lewis" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 9:14:57 AM Subject: Re: BGP prefix filter list On Wed, 15 May 2019, Mike Hammett wrote: > What is the most common platform people are using with such limitations? How > long ago was it deprecated? One network's deprecated router is another network's new [bargain priced] core router. :) -- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route | therefore you are _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
Re: BGP prefix filter list
What is the most common platform people are using with such limitations? How long ago was it deprecated? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Baldur Norddahl" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:43:30 AM Subject: BGP prefix filter list Hello This morning we apparently had a problem with our routers not handling the full table. So I am looking into culling the least useful prefixes from our tables. I can hardly be the first one to take on that kind of project, and I am wondering if there is a ready made prefix list or similar? Or maybe we have a list of worst offenders? I am looking for ASN that announces a lot of unnecessary /24 prefixes and which happens to be far away from us? I would filter those to something like /20 and then just have a default route to catch all. Thanks, Baldur
Re: FCC Hurricane Michael after-action report
The majority of people doing locates are terrible at their job. (Un)fortunately, people doing the conduit installations are often terrible at their job as well. It's about a 50/50 split if the line was located correctly and the installation crew was careless or the line wasn't located correctly in the first places. Sometimes lines can be off by 10 feet. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Rich Kulawiec" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 8:51:13 AM Subject: Re: FCC Hurricane Michael after-action report On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 11:48:02PM -0500, frnk...@iname.com wrote: > One of my takeaways from that article was that burying fiber underground > could likely have avoided many/most of these fiber cuts, though I???m > not familiar enough with the terrain to know how feasible that is. I suspect that may not be possible in (parts of) Florida. However, even in places where it's possible, fiber installation is sometimes miserably executed. Like my neighborhood. A couple of years ago, Verizon decided to finally bring FIOS in. They put in the appropriate calls to utility services, who dutifully marked all the existing power/cable/gas/etc. lines and then their contractors (or sub-sub-contractors) showed up. The principle outcome of their efforts quickly became clear, as one Comcast cable line after another was severed. Not a handful, not even dozens: well over a hundred. They managed to cut mine in three places, which was truly impressive. (Thanks for the extended outage, Verizon.) After this had gone on for a month, Comcast caught on and took the expedient route of just rolling a truck every morning. They'd park at the end of the road and just wait for the service calls that they knew were coming. Of course Comcast's lines were not the only victims of this incompetence and negligence. Amusingly, sometimes Verizon had to send its own repair crews for their copper lines. There's a lot more but let me skip to the end result. After inflicting months of outages on everyone, after tearing up lots of lawns, after all of this, many of the fiber conduits that are allegedly underground: aren't. ---rsk
Re: Cisco Crosswork Network Insights - or how to destroy a useful service
Cisco ruins everything they touch. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Hank Nussbacher" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:50:10 AM Subject: Cisco Crosswork Network Insights - or how to destroy a useful service I have started to use Cisco Crosswork Network Insights which is the replacement for BGPmon and I am shocked at how Cisco has managed to destroy a useful tool. I have had a paid 50 prefix account since the day BGPmon became available and helped two clients implement a 500 prefix license over the past 4 years. None will be buying Cisco Crosswork Network Insights, based on my recommendation. I really don’t know where to begin since there is so much to dislike in this new GUI. I will try to give you just a small taste but I suggest you request a 90 day trial license and try it out for yourself. This was not designed by someone who deals with BGP hijacks or who manages a network. It was probably given to some GUI developer with a minimal understanding of what the users needed. How do I know this? Take for example the main configuration menu: https://crosswork.cisco.com/#/configuration with the first tab of “prefixes”. On that page there is no mention of which ASN the prefix is associated with. That of course was fundamental in the BGPmon menu: https://portal.bgpmon.net/myprefixes.php Or take for example its “express configuration”, where you insert an ASN and it automatically finds all prefixes and creates a policy. But does it know the name of the ASN? Nope. Something again that was basic in BGPmon via: https://portal.bgpmon.net/myasn.php is non-existent in CNI. Or how about the alarms one gets to an email? Want to see how that looks? From: Crosswork Admin [ mailto:ad...@crosswork.cisco.com ] Sent: 15 May 2019 11:39 To: Hank Nussbacher Subject: CCNI Notification Active alarm count 1 starting at 2019-05-15 08:34:42.960762315 + UTC. Please click on the link for each alarm below: https://crosswork.cisco.com/#/alarm/ba7c5084-f05d-4c12-a17f-be9e815d6647 Compare that with what we used to get: Possible Prefix Hijack (Code: 10) Your prefix: 99.201.0.0/16: Prefix Description: Kuku net Update time: 2018-08-12 17:50 (UTC) Detected by #peers: 140 Detected prefix: 99.201.131.0/24 Announced by: AS46 (BGP hijacking Ltd) Upstream AS: AS11 (Clueless ISP allowing customer hijacking Ltd) ASpath: 55 44 33 11 46 Alert details: https://portal.bgpmon.net/alerts.php?details_id=830521190 Mark as false alert: https://portal.bgpmon.net/fp.php?aid=830521190 That is just a small sampling. Maybe two years down the road, Cisco will speak to customers first before destroying a useful service. Anyone else trying this out and feels the same or feels differently? Disappointed, Hank
Re: NTP for ASBRs?
Many systems have less than ideal separation of collection, storage, viewing, export, etc. timezones. I prefer to view in local time. I may wish to export in another. Storage in UTC to facilitate all of this makes sense. Normalizing input timezones would be nice. A boy can only dream... - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Christopher Morrow" To: "nanog list" Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 2:16:59 PM Subject: Re: NTP for ASBRs? On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 3:12 PM Andy Smith wrote: > > Hello, > > On Wed, May 08, 2019 at 10:27:30PM -0400, Christopher Morrow wrote: > > UTC is nice > > EST is nice > > PDT is nice.. > > > > pick one, deal with the eccentricities of that decision without > > foisting your religion on the rest of me. :) > > Yes and no. Anything non-UTC can cause issues when working with > other organisations. "deal with the eccentricities of that decision without foisting your religion on the rest of me" I clearly mistyped: "me" at the end there with "us"... Your point is squarely on: Hey, you do you... when you talk to me be prepared to normalize my TZ and yours. (which may mean;: send in UTC store in ElboniaStandardTime" > More than once I've received logs or incident notifications from > suppliers without a time zone stated at all. I've then asked the > time zone only to be told "It's PST" when in fact the real answer > was PDT as the supplier was currently in DST. Others shouldn't have > to work this hard, epseically with DST dates being a matter of local > legislation, and one way of helping that to happen from the first > line support up is to use UTC. > > Cheers, > Andy
Re: NTP question
What sort of products are people using to provide timing services to third parties in datacenters? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "James Harrison" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 5:27:38 PM Subject: Re: NTP question On 01/05/2019 20:29, Job Snijders wrote: > The trick is to order a spot on the roof of the datacenter, have the > facility staff place the antenna there, and run a cable to the NTP > server in your rack. Some DCs also offer GPS antenna feeds fed from a splitter, though it's important to get the total cable length from the antenna to your receiver so you can set your propagation delay offset accordingly. I've also been in facilities that distribute IRIG and 10MHz references so you can feed a reference directly, but that's fairly rare. It's worth asking what your facilities can provide, in either case. Many DCs don't want a dozen GPS antennae cluttering the roof up but are happy to provide the service from one they look after (for a cost, of course). If you have external facilities, of course, so long as you can run PTP/1588 back from them, you can always host your clocks there and distribute to 1588 masters in the DC. -- Cheers, James Harrison
Re: NTP question
Anyone know of a solution that doesn't require an external antenna, is NEBS compliant, and has T1-type outputs for me to hook into my Metaswitch gear? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Alejandro Acosta" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 5:41:36 PM Subject: Re: NTP question Hello, As other have commented before, it looks you need an outdoor antenna, however, reading the specs it says: "The built in high sensitivity GPS receiver is able to lock multiple satellites from within multiple buildings or from a window location , eliminating the requirement that an outdoor antenna be installed ." Weird. Alejandro, El 1/5/19 a las 15:22, Mehmet Akcin escribió: hey there Nanog, I am trying to buy a GPS based NTP server like this one https://timemachinescorp.com/product/gps-time-server-tm1000a/ but I will be placing this inside a data center, do these need an actual view of a sky to be able to get signal or will they work fine inside a data center building? if you have any other hardware requirements to be able to provide stable time service for hundreds of customers, please let me know. mehmet
Re: NTP question
Accurate timing is also often required for telco gear. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Harlan Stenn" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 4:35:58 PM Subject: Re: NTP question So I gotta ask, just as a reality check: - Why do folks want to have one or more NTP server masters that have at least 1 refclock on them in a data center, instead of having their data center NTP server masters that only get time over the internet? - What % of data center operators provide time servers in their data centers for their tenants (or for the general public)? -- Harlan Stenn http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Re: NTP question
I looked before at who had spectrum allocations in the frequencies my boxes supported. I then used Cell Mapper to figure out what technology was deployed on that frequency. IIRC, both US Cellular and Verizon had basic CDMA running in my area on those channels. Sprint was running LTE and 1x Advanced (or something like that), so probably wouldn't have worked out. If Verizon is dropping theirs, then depending on only one company seems a bit unwise which means I gotta find some kind of solution by then. *sigh* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Brielle Bruns" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 3:58:57 PM Subject: Re: NTP question On 5/1/2019 2:50 PM, Andreas Ott wrote: >> If you can't get a good spot for an antenna, you could be on the lookout >> for a CDMA NTP clock. > CDMA service is about to be retired in several places, please check > in your area before you install a "new" CDMA based time server. > C.f.https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/knowledge-base-218813/ > > I looked into the same thing and decided not to go with CDMA. There's actually a few other CDMA networks in our area (Boise) besides Verizon, so it wouldn't hurt to look. I seem to remember Sprint is planning to go to 2021? There also appears to be a few smaller independent CDMA networks around as well. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
Re: NTP question
I had inquired with Frontier about installing a GPS antenna and they said they don't allow antennas of any kind attached to the building anymore. I didn't pursue that any further. I didn't think to check what the signal strength was inside. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Andreas Ott" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 3:50:33 PM Subject: Re: NTP question Hi, On Wed, May 01, 2019 at 02:01:44PM -0600, Brielle Bruns wrote: > If you can't get a good spot for an antenna, you could be on the lookout > for a CDMA NTP clock. CDMA service is about to be retired in several places, please check in your area before you install a "new" CDMA based time server. C.f. https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/knowledge-base-218813/ I looked into the same thing and decided not to go with CDMA. A simple check inside a (datacenter) building is to use one of the GPS smart phone apps that display you number of Sats and signal strength then walk around where you would place the NTP server appliance. Beware of server CPUs and memory making RF noise in the same frequency spectrum of 1.2 - 2 GHz, completely blanking out any GPS indoors. I concur that installing an amplified roof-top antenna and running coax to your receiver is the best option. -andreas -- Andreas Ott K6OTT +1.408.431.8727 andr...@naund.org
DSL\POTS Testing Equipment
We've got an EXFO Colt-250 and an EXFO CableSHARK P3. They're 10 - 15 years old, but as far as I know they work. Practically, what am I missing out on by not getting a newer tester? I'd like the CableSHARK's features in a smaller unit, but it seems like we're looking at a minimum of $2k to get something that does that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
Re: Optical routes from MI-OH regionals
https://ifnetwork.biz/regional-map - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Jason Lixfeld" To: "NANOG" Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 8:42:56 AM Subject: Optical routes from MI-OH regionals Hi, Looking for someone who might have routes (lit or dark) from Detroit, MI to Columbus, OH preferably using a straight’ish shot from Toledo to Columbus. Most routes I’ve seen from the larger providers tend to run Toledo - Lima - Columbus or Toledo - Cleveland - Columbus, so I’m hoping a smaller regional player may have something more direct. Thanks in advance!
Re: Packetstream - how does this not violate just about every provider's ToS?
Welcome to the Internet. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Rich Kulawiec" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 10:34:44 AM Subject: Re: Packetstream - how does this not violate just about every provider's ToS? On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 06:31:08PM -0700, William Herrin wrote: > On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 6:06 PM John Levine wrote: > > > I assumed that something this sleazy would be offshore, but their > > terms of service say they're in Los Angeles. > > > > They tricked you. [snip] Also, unless I'm misreading their site, they expect users to download/run an application program of unknown provenance and function, from an operation that has gone to great lengths to conceal its location and principals. What could possibly go wrong? ---rsk
Re: Disney+ CDN
but hey... they're getting transit from VZB\MCI\UUNET... so it'll be great! - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Jon Lewis" To: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 4:51:58 PM Subject: Re: Disney+ CDN On Fri, 26 Apr 2019, Ross Tajvar wrote: > Yeah, I'm going to send them an email and see if I can get ahold of their > peering policy. > I'm hoping they will update it as they get more attention from other > networks. They may just be procrastinating > setting things up. According to bgp.he.net they are only announcing one v4 > /24 and one v6 /48, which could be > enough IPs, but seems a little on the small side. I'd be much more worried about only being on one IX than only advertising a single /24 and /48. I'm guessing they've just not fully fleshed out the peeringdb entry and maybe not fully built out the network infrastructure yet. A CDN, with everything coming from one POP in NY is not going to cut it. -- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route | therefore you are _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
Re: Packetstream - how does this not violate just about every provider's ToS?
Great... someone brought up Net Neutrality. I guess it's time to unsubscribe
from the list for a few days until the shit show disappears.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Tom Beecher"
To: "Matthew Kaufman"
Cc: "J. Hellenthal via NANOG"
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:44:29 AM
Subject: Re: Packetstream - how does this not violate just about every
provider's ToS?
And that is the conundrum here I think. It's very difficult (for me) to
reconcile "NET NEUTRALITY!! PROVIDERS SHOULD BE DUMB PIPES!" with "Hey
providers, this company is trying to do something sketchy, you should take
action to stop it from working."
Reselling bandwidth/access to your residential internet connection isn't (to my
knowledge) breaking any criminal LAWS. It's only violating the ToS between you
and your provider, to which they have a remedy of canceling your account if
they decide to. (Maybe there's civil action there? I dunno.) So for anything
not violating laws I'm not sure I want ISPs interfering with traffic at all.
On the flip side, maybe ISPs can be pragmatic about this, and send warnings to
people who may start using this..."service". Give them a heads up that they
appear to be doing something that is in violation of the ToS, and if they
continue, their account might be canceled. Be a nicer method than just 0 to
canceled in one go.
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 8:12 AM Matthew Kaufman < matt...@matthew.at > wrote:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:09 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. < amitch...@isipp.com >
wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2019, at 1:41 PM, Tom Beecher wrote:
>
> It seems like just another example of liability shifting/shielding. I'll
> defer to Actual Lawyers obviously, but the way I see it, Packetstream doesn't
> have any contractual or business relationship with my ISP. I do. If I sell
> them my bandwidth, and my ISP decides to take action, they come after me, not
> Packetstream. I can plead all I want about how I was just running "someone
> else's software" , but that isn't gonna hold up, since I am responsible for
> what is running on my home network, knowingly or unknowingly.
And *that* is *exactly* my concern. Because those users...('you' in this
example)...they have *no idea* it is causing them to violate their ToS/AUP with
their provider.
And this in part, is my reason for bringing it up here in NANOG - because (at
least some of) those big providers are here. And those big providers are in the
best position to stamp this out (if they think that it needs stamping out).
So providers should stamp this out (because it is “bad”) and support customers
who are running TOR nodes (because those are “good”). Did I get that right?
Matthew Kaufman
Re: Disney+ CDN
$1.6B for less than half of the company and they don't even source the bits themselves? Hrm - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Chris Grundemann" To: "Jared Geiger" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 2:31:24 PM Subject: Re: Disney+ CDN On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 3:03 PM Jared Geiger < ja...@compuwizz.net > wrote: An article mentioned BAMTech's platform which is what NHL, MLB, and HBO GO are built on. The bits from the first two come from Akamai and Level3 CDNs. I haven't looked into where HBO Go comes from. Yep, they decided to buy BAMTech and build their own: https://www.thewaltdisneycompany.com/walt-disney-company-acquire-majority-ownership-bamtech/ On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 9:58 PM Aaron Gould < aar...@gvtc.com > wrote: Have we found out yet if Disney+ will have a CDN? Like Netflix oca, Akamai aanp, google ggc, facebook fna … a Disney isp-located cdn presence ? disneyplus.com -Aaron From: NANOG [mailto: nanog-boun...@nanog.org ] On Behalf Of Aaron Graves Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 7:22 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Disney+ CDN Anyone know what Disney is planning on doing for streaming content distribution once they leave Netflix? Would be nice if they'd provide an on-prem cache server. AG -- @ChrisGrundemann http://chrisgrundemann.com
Re: Amazon AS16509 peering... how long to wait?
I submitted requests for multiple networks over the course of a year. One got acknowledged and had a few week wait from when the session came up to routes\traffic passing. The others have been ignored. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "John Von Essen" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2019 4:41:22 PM Subject: Amazon AS16509 peering... how long to wait? I applied for peering, received an email, setup the BGP session, waited about a month. Then 3 weeks ago my BGP session with Amazom came up, but with zero routes. I assume I am in some kind of test/waiting period, but after three weeks, I thought I would be getting routes by now. Emails to the peeringdb POC have not returned anything. Anyone here from AS16509, can this be bumped? We are AS17185, and peering is on DE-CIX NYC. Thanks John
Re: Purchasing IPv4 space - due diligence homework
Do you have sources for the ~90% T-Mobile IPv6? Not arguing, but to use that as a source myself when spreading the IPv6 good word. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Jared Mauch" To: "Matt Torres" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 10:58:23 AM Subject: Re: Purchasing IPv4 space - due diligence homework > On Apr 3, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Torres, Matt via NANOG wrote: > > All, > Side stepping a migration to IPv6 debate…. I’d like to hear advise from the > group about performing due diligence research on an IPv4 block before > purchasing it on the secondary market (on behalf of an end-user company). My > research has branched into two questions: a) What ‘checks’ should I perform?, > and b) what results from those checks should cause us to walk away? > > My current list is: > • Check BGP looking glass for route. It should not show up in the Internet > routing table. If it does, walk away. > • Check the ARIN registry. The longer history without recent transfers or > changes is better. I don’t know what explicit results should cause me to walk > away here. > • Check SORBS blacklisting. It should not show up except maybe the DUHL > list(?). If it does, walk away. > > Anything else? Advise? I’d like to ask a related question (I’m not questioning why you need IPv4 space) but are you also deploying IPv6 as well? If not, is there a reason? In my copious spare time I’m doing a small FTTH network and many services do work well with IPv6 while others (banks are a an example) perhaps don’t. We have T-Mobile USA saying with their network most bits go out as v6, so I’m guessing there’s that 5-10% you need v4 for if you deploy as aggressively as they do. Mostly curious if you are doing IPv6 if you see that slowing your need for v4 or if they are growing at the same rate. - Jared
Re: Banned by Akamai (or some websites hosted with Akamai)
Hopefully Jared can fix it. Owen's description matches up very well with my experiences in trying to fix similar problems at Akamai. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Jared Mauch" To: "Owen DeLong" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 12:25:32 PM Subject: Re: Banned by Akamai (or some websites hosted with Akamai) All companies have unique challenges in trying to mitigate abuse and serve customers well. Miao I’ll collect details from you in private to see if there is something that can be done. Sent from my iCar > On Mar 27, 2019, at 4:56 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > Akamai will _NOT_ be helpful in this situation. > > They will tell you that it is their customers who set the policy for their > “Web Application Firewall”. > > In reality, Akamai’s customers set certain things on “autopilot” where Akamai > maintains a reputation database for various IP addresses and triggers actions > set by their customers without their customers direct knowledge or > intervention. > > Akamai’s process for dealing with this (or rather their refusal to create a > process for dealing with it) is a horrible disservice to the internet and to > their customers. > > I tried to push for changes to this process while I was there and had no > significant success. > > I’ve also been the victim of these practices after I was laid off by Akamai > (along with about 7% of their employees last year). > > Because of a variety of issues I’m not at liberty to elaborate, it isn’t an > easy problem for Akamai to solve, but as a company that prides itself on > tackling and solving difficult problems, they’ve certainly fallen short here. > > Owen > > >> On Mar 27, 2019, at 08:46 , Siyuan Miao wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I got some complaints from customers and found out that all IP addresses >> announced in one of our ASN are banned by Akamai or some websites hosted >> with Akamai. >> >> I've tried to contact one of the website owners but didn't get any response. >> >> Could someone from Akamai contact me off-list? >> >> Regards, >> Siyuan Miao
Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?
Variability will always happen with small businesses, but you're more likely to encounter someone that won't do nasty things to your bits through a local WISP as opposed to a national player. It's also more likely to be consistent versus the variability of a mobile service. WISPs have been going strong for years. Typically when a fixed wireless customer moves to mobile wireless, they move back within a couple months. Also, *most* people don't need more than 10 megs at home, so fixed providers that haven't upgraded to support faster speeds aren't really at a disadvantage when you look at how the connection is actually used. That becomes apparent once you switch. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Bryan Fields" To: "NANOG List" Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 2:28:05 PM Subject: Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help? On 3/27/19 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > https://broadbandnow.com/Florida/Micanopy?zip=32667# > > You might want to try neighboring ZIP codes to see what other fixed > wireless providers might be convinced to expand. > > http://svic.net/wireless-broadband-north-florida/ You really want to weigh what wireless can offer as many of the local players doing wireless lack the depth of network knowledge and are completely ignorant of what it takes to run an RF network. I'd independently verify your circuits up-time if you decide to go with a wireless ISP. The other sad part is the PtMP wireless technology is likely slower than an LTE modem with external antenna. The WISP's had a great time circa 2005 or so, but now that the licensed players have surpassed what they can offer it's hard to justify the lower availability of the typical WISP vs. cost. -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Nexus 9396 SNMP Issues
Does anyone else have issues with the 9396 sending out bum SNMP responses? Seemingly all DDM information for the optic modules return just a single digit. IE: [redacted]# show int eth 1/3 trans det Ethernet1/3 transceiver is present type is 1000base-LH name is Fiberstore part number is SFP1G-LH-31 revision is A0 serial number is F16ACO17646 nominal bitrate is 1300 MBit/sec Link length supported for 9/125um fiber is 10 km cisco id is 3 cisco extended id number is 4 SFP Detail Diagnostics Information (internal calibration) Current Alarms Warnings Measurement High Low High Low Temperature 40.72 C 100.00 C -50.00 C 85.00 C -40.00 C Voltage 3.35 V 3.79 V 2.80 V 3.46 V 3.13 V Current 15.89 mA 90.00 mA 0.00 mA 85.00 mA 0.00 mA Tx Power -6.05 dBm -1.50 dBm -10.50 dBm -3.00 dBm -9.03 dBm Rx Power -6.32 dBm -3.00 dBm -26.98 dBm -5.00 dBm -23.97 dBm Transmit Fault Count = 0 Note: ++ high-alarm; + high-warning; -- low-alarm; - low-warning [redacted]:~$ /usr/bin/snmpget -v2c -c [redacted] .1.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33533 .1.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33534 iso.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33533 = INTEGER: -6 iso.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33534 = INTEGER: -6 [redacted]:/opt/librenms# tcpdump host [redacted] tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 262144 bytes 11:13:33.360509 IP [redacted].49594 > [redacted].snmp: C="[redacted]" GetRequest(62) E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33533 E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33534 11:13:33.362093 IP [redacted].snmp > [redacted].49594: C="[redacted]" GetResponse(64) E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33533=-6 E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.33534=-6 ^C 2 packets captured 2 packets received by filter 0 packets dropped by kernel Here I have a 3064 that reports just fine. [redacted]# show int eth 1/17 trans det Ethernet1/17 transceiver is present type is 1000base-LH name is FiberStore part number is SFP1G-LX-31 revision is A0 serial number is D87B1487283 nominal bitrate is 1300 MBit/sec Link length supported for 9/125um fiber is 10 km cisco id is 3 cisco extended id number is 4 SFP Detail Diagnostics Information (internal calibration) Current Alarms Warnings Measurement High Low High Low Temperature 33.38 C 100.00 C -50.00 C 85.00 C -40.00 C Voltage 3.33 V 3.79 V 2.80 V 3.46 V 3.13 V Current 19.60 mA 90.00 mA 0.00 mA 85.00 mA 0.00 mA Tx Power -6.10 dBm -1.50 dBm -10.50 dBm -3.00 dBm -9.03 dBm Rx Power -6.94 dBm 0.99 dBm -30.00 dBm -1.00 dBm -26.98 dBm Transmit Fault Count = 0 Note: ++ high-alarm; + high-warning; -- low-alarm; - low-warning [redacted]:/opt/librenms# /usr/bin/snmpget -v2c -c [redacted] .1.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028173 .1.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028174 iso.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028173 = INTEGER: -6968 iso.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028174 = INTEGER: -6090 [redacted]:/opt/librenms# tcpdump host [redacted] tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 262144 bytes 11:54:01.25 IP [redacted].36131 > [redacted].snmp: C="[redacted]" GetRequest(62) E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028173 E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028174 11:54:01.261027 IP [redacted].snmp > [redacted].36131: C="[redacted]" GetResponse(66) E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028173=-6968 E:cisco.9.91.1.1.1.1.4.300028174=-6090 ^C 2 packets captured 2 packets received by filter 0 packets dropped by kernel - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?
If you're looking to start an ISP, talk to Windstream and Uniti for transport. I can put you in touch with people, should you be interested in going down that route. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "david raistrick" To: "NANOG List" Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:41:30 PM Subject: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help? folks, I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world for longer. Looking at a house in a new area, at copper splice box out front, bellsouth fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but it's there). Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT - but the New AT apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there. This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida (Micanopy, specifically). I knew the state of residential service was in sorry shape - but from what I'm reading, it seems to be worse than I'd though possible. Anyone have any suggestions for service options? I'm cool with dark fiber, if it comes down to that (and can be price sanely and terminated somewhere useful), but it seems like there -should- still be CLEC/DLECs or just plain resellers in business who still have access to resources that are in the ground. My business operates from home - so obviously quality service is a priority, and I'm willing to pay for it within reason. Business plans are certainly an option as well. I've confirmed with all of the known players via their front channels - att, windstream, centurylink, frontier, cox/comcast/spectre. Via backchannels I've confirmed that cox has fiber in the ground 1.4 miles away - straight shot down a dirt road (same one with the BS fiber markers). I have a lead on a couple of tower shots - but there's a big (for florida) ridge between us, and I might have to build 3-400ft to hit anything (speculatively). Anyone have local area or other knowledge that might be helpful? I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but cell or sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly. thanks guys. ...david
Re: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help?
https://broadbandnow.com/Florida/Micanopy?zip=32667# You might want to try neighboring ZIP codes to see what other fixed wireless providers might be convinced to expand. http://svic.net/wireless-broadband-north-florida/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "david raistrick" To: "NANOG List" Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:41:30 PM Subject: residential/smb internet access in 2019 - help? folks, I've been away from nanog for a long time - and away from the ISP world for longer. Looking at a house in a new area, at copper splice box out front, bellsouth fiber markers as well (yes, that's usually just passing by. but it's there). Owners since '82 said the telephone company was AT - but the New AT apparently no longer offers phone or internet service there. This is located in a semi-rural area between Ocala and Gainesville Florida (Micanopy, specifically). I knew the state of residential service was in sorry shape - but from what I'm reading, it seems to be worse than I'd though possible. Anyone have any suggestions for service options? I'm cool with dark fiber, if it comes down to that (and can be price sanely and terminated somewhere useful), but it seems like there -should- still be CLEC/DLECs or just plain resellers in business who still have access to resources that are in the ground. My business operates from home - so obviously quality service is a priority, and I'm willing to pay for it within reason. Business plans are certainly an option as well. I've confirmed with all of the known players via their front channels - att, windstream, centurylink, frontier, cox/comcast/spectre. Via backchannels I've confirmed that cox has fiber in the ground 1.4 miles away - straight shot down a dirt road (same one with the BS fiber markers). I have a lead on a couple of tower shots - but there's a big (for florida) ridge between us, and I might have to build 3-400ft to hit anything (speculatively). Anyone have local area or other knowledge that might be helpful? I'd hate to miss out on this house - it's a lot of things we love - but cell or sat only for internet access just isn't going to fly. thanks guys. ...david
Comcast XB6 Blocking TFTP
Have any of you seen the Comcast XB6 modem blocking TFTP and some SIP requests? We put the modem into bridge mode and TFTP requests are successful. Reset it, set security to the lowest setting, disable the firewall... no TFTP requests pass. Modem\Router - cable - laptop. Of course we can't call into support because the customer is out of town and thus we're unable to authenticate ourselves to support (not that we tried). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Re: FB?
Do you have a link to the clarification? With the high jitter of news, all I'm finding is people parroting the original statement. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Roland Dobbins" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 7:23:00 AM Subject: Re: FB? On 14 Mar 2019, at 19:17, Mike Hammett wrote: > I saw one article quoting Roland saying it was a route leak, but I > haven't seen any other sources that aren't just quoting Roland. That was the result of a miscommunication; a clarification has been issued, FYI. Roland Dobbins
FB?
So what happened at Facebook today ? I saw one article quoting Roland saying it was a route leak, but I haven't seen any other sources that aren't just quoting Roland. Usually there are a few independent posts out there by now. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
Re: Should Netflix and Hulu give you emergency alerts?
Seems a bit extreme... - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Peter Kristolaitis" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 10:32:18 PM Subject: Re: Should Netflix and Hulu give you emergency alerts? It can be blocked, FYI. Just... not as easily as it should be. On Android, if you remove the CellBroadcastReceiver service, the phone no longer listens for the alerts. I rooted my phone specifically to be able to do this after the alerting system rolled out in Canada. The test was bad enough, then within the first week we had several alerts for a single event that happened literally an entire day's drive away from me. And thus, in the first week the system was alive, alarm fatigue set in, the government confirmed that it cannot be trusted, and I revoked their privilege to use my personal devices for stuff I don't want. On 2019-03-08 7:51 p.m., Clayton Zekelman wrote: > > Absolutely, we need public emergency alerting. What we don't need is > every alert to go out mandatory highest level sound the klaxon, can't > be blocked, even when it's an "all clear" cancelling a previous alert, > and is being sent in the middle of the night. > > That's the system that has been foisted upon us here. I'm all for > emergency alerting, but please make sure it's a real emergency. > > At least in the US version, they target the region affected, and code > it with the appropriate alert level instead of sending alerts to > people 1400 km away. > > https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/05/14/first-emergency-alert-sets-off-phones-ontario-wide-following-thunder-bay-amber-alert.html > > > > > > At 07:43 PM 08/03/2019, Sean Donelan wrote: >> Canada made a lot of improvements with its alert implementation. It >> got to see all the things the U.S. did wrong. Unfortuantely, Canada >> also copied some wrong lessons from the the U.S. version. >> >> South Korea probably has the most ludicrous emergency alerts in the >> world. >> >> While improvements are needed, the various alert systems have saved >> people's lives. >> >> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019, Clayton Zekelman wrote: >>> Just wait until your connected home speakers, smart smoke detector, >>> smart >>> refrigerator, smart tv, cell phone, IP streaming box, satellite >>> receiver, >>> cable box, home security panel and your Fitbit all go off warning >>> you of the >>> cancellation of an Amber alert at 1:30am, because the good folks at >>> AlertReady.Ca and Pelmorex think that everything needs to go out at >>> highest >>> precedence, because, well, think of the children! >
Re: Should Netflix and Hulu give you emergency alerts?
Streaming is probably the least important thing someone could be doing. A lot of places don't have adequate cell service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Erculiani" To: "Sean Donelan" Cc: "nanog@nanog.org list" Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 4:31:37 PM Subject: Re: Should Netflix and Hulu give you emergency alerts? Sean I think the cellular emergency alert systems already in place have satisfied this need or should be implemented before forcing streaming services to alter their platforms. Plus they allow the user the ability to disable them if they so choose. If they have the alerts disabled and miss something important, that's on them. The world is evolving and I don't think interrupting streaming is necessary given all the other ways there are to alert a population. -Matt On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 16:23 Sean Donelan < s...@donelan.com > wrote: https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/08/tech/emergency-alert-netflix-hulu-streaming/index.html New York (CNN Business) The federal emergency alert program was designed decades ago to interrupt your TV show or radio station and warn about impending danger — from severe weather events to acts of war. But people watch TV and listen to radio differently today. If a person is watching Netflix, listening to Spotify or playing a video game, for example, they might miss a critical emergency alert altogether. "More and more people are opting out of the traditional television services," said Gregory Touhill, a cybersecurity expert who served at the Department of Homeland security and was the first-ever Federal Chief Information Security Officer. "There's a huge population out there that needs to help us rethink how we do this." [...]
Re: fs.com dwdm equipment
None of our stuff has management, all passive. Once you get into the amps and whatnot, those have management. We'll likely be getting some shortly as we're rebuilding our infrastructure and adding some things. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Chris Gross" To: "Michel Blais" , "Samir Rana" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 12:39:57 AM Subject: RE: fs.com dwdm equipment For managing them, do you use the actual software they ship with it? When I last checked, it requires a MSSQL instance with hard coded “sa” user access which was an immediate no go for me. I still have them sitting in a box in our lab as a teaching aid really. From: NANOG On Behalf Of Michel Blais Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 4:56 PM To: Samir Rana Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: fs.com dwdm equipment I tryed SFP, MUX, DEMUX and OADM, all working as expected. Le dim. 17 févr. 2019 19 h 18, Samir Rana < samir.r...@cybera.ca > a écrit : Hello All, Does anybody have experience with fs.com dwdm equipment in their production environment? Are you they working without any issue? How's their warranty support if the issue arises? Thanks in advance for all the answers and help.
Re: Last Mile Design
The biggest use of bandwidth as the IoT buzzword comes to fruition is exploits. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Miles Fidelman" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:26:13 PM Subject: Re: Last Mile Design I expect things are going to change as IoT takes off - security cameras, baby monitors, start to push video upstream - that makes a difference. And then there are the efforts of cell carriers to push traffic onto home wifi - more and more facetime video will also add load. Miles On 2/9/19 3:14 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Electrical consumption of the equipment is different and then the environmental conditioning that larger electronic load. Let's not forget that actual consumer bit consumption changes very little whether they have 20 megs or 2 gigs provisioned and available. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Miles Fidelman" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 12:20:36 PM Subject: Re: Last Mile Design Speaking of which, the Grant County Public Utility District (Washington State), has wired active ethernet all over their rural county. Seems to me that the cost difference between splitters & switches is a pretty minor component of deploying FTTH - the costs are in the trenching, and the fiber. What you put on the poles, or in the lawn furniture, is a pretty minor cost component. Though... getting power to the switches might be an issue, less so if you're deploying on power poles. Miles Fidelman On 2/9/19 12:59 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Sat, 9 Feb 2019, Mark Tinka wrote: > >> If I had to build a consumer broadband network and had the budget >> (and owned the fibre) to do so, I'd definitely always choose Active-E: > > For anyone saying it's "impossible" to do AE they're welcome here to > the nordic region and especially Sweden where PON is basically unheard > of. We have millions of AE connected households. I live in one of them. > -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra
Re: Last Mile Design
Electrical consumption of the equipment is different and then the environmental conditioning that larger electronic load. Let's not forget that actual consumer bit consumption changes very little whether they have 20 megs or 2 gigs provisioned and available. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Miles Fidelman" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 12:20:36 PM Subject: Re: Last Mile Design Speaking of which, the Grant County Public Utility District (Washington State), has wired active ethernet all over their rural county. Seems to me that the cost difference between splitters & switches is a pretty minor component of deploying FTTH - the costs are in the trenching, and the fiber. What you put on the poles, or in the lawn furniture, is a pretty minor cost component. Though... getting power to the switches might be an issue, less so if you're deploying on power poles. Miles Fidelman On 2/9/19 12:59 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Sat, 9 Feb 2019, Mark Tinka wrote: > >> If I had to build a consumer broadband network and had the budget >> (and owned the fibre) to do so, I'd definitely always choose Active-E: > > For anyone saying it's "impossible" to do AE they're welcome here to > the nordic region and especially Sweden where PON is basically unheard > of. We have millions of AE connected households. I live in one of them. > -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra
Frontier Communications Cisco DSL
If any of you have a Cisco 2811 connected via DSL to Frontier, could you hit me up offlist? Likewise, if anyone from Frontier can help me, that'd be great. Most of the Cisco DSL documentation I'm running to is forever old and doesn't necessarily work on newer IOS releases or different configs at Frontier. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
Re: Latency between Dallas and west coast
It's 180 ms from Dallas to Djibouti, so no, that much latency to the west coast of the US is not normal. http://he.net/layer2/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Nathanael Catangay Cariaga" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:39:54 AM Subject: Latency between Dallas and west coast I would like to know if anyone here maintains average latency ranges between Dallas and Internet Exchanges at the west coast? Is it normal to have around 192ms to 200ms between the two points? Thanks in advance -nathan
Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY
A prefix is a prefix. A route is a prefix plus a next-hop. Your next hop for your PNI is different than your IX. I don't believe I advocated running IX links hot. Financially, as an IX operator, I'd prefer that people ran all their bits over an IX and that all links were best kept below 10% utilization. ;-) Obviously I know that's not good engineering or fiscally responsible on the network's behalf. Just going to the extreme to support my point. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Mark Tinka" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 8:14:44 AM Subject: Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY On 31/Jan/19 15:54, Mike Hammett wrote: Not all routes are created equal. If you have a PNI and an IX connection of equal capacity, obviously the IX connection will fill up first given that there is more opportunity there. I think you meant to say not all "paths" are equal. Routes are routes. Where they lead to is another matter. The presence of a PNI does not preclude good governance of an exchange point link. If you are going to (willingly or otherwise) ignore the health of your public peering links over your private ones (or vice versa), then I wish upon you all the hell you'll face that comes with taking that position. Our policy is simple - 50% utilized, you upgrade. Doesn't matter what type of link it is; WDM Transport, IP, peering (public or private), Metro, core backbone, protection paths, e.t.c. Choosing to let your public peering links run hot because your "major" peers are taken care of by the private links is irresponsible. Do a lot of networks do it; hell yes, and for reasons you'd not think are obvious. Also, there are more moving parts in an IX (and accompanying route servers), thus more to go wrong. Agreed, but that's not the crux of this thread (even though it's one of the reasons we do not relay solely on RS's). Mark.
Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY
Not all routes are created equal. If you have a PNI and an IX connection of equal capacity, obviously the IX connection will fill up first given that there is more opportunity there. Also, there are more moving parts in an IX (and accompanying route servers), thus more to go wrong. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Mark Tinka" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 7:09:54 AM Subject: Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY On 31/Jan/19 14:59, Mike Hammett wrote: Do people not know how to use local pref and MED to prefer PNI over route server? We don't particularly care how the routes are learned. Routes are routes. Our motivation for or against peering with an RS is granular policy control, and the level of trust we can put in the stability of the same over time. Mark.
Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY
Do people not know how to use local pref and MED to prefer PNI over route server? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Mark Tinka" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 6:20:42 AM Subject: Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY On 31/Jan/19 12:04, Julien Goodwin wrote: > Even in exchanges that strongly encourage their use route collectors > were much less connected to than route servers, and few exchanges had > them in the first place. We, for example, connect to RS's more selectively. We are more liberal about RC's since they do not have an impact on our forwarding paradigm, and it helps the exchange point know what's happening across their fabric. But yes, I do imagine that interest level of connecting to either an RS or RC could vary, particularly the larger of a network you are. > > Part of the problem with advertising on route servers is many clients, > including networks that should know better often treat those routes as a > higher priority than is sensible, in some cases equal or higher than a > PNI link in the same city. Well, there are a number of peers that do not have a linear peering relationship for all routes available at an exchange point, i.e., they don't see those routes both via the RS and bi-lateral sessions. For many networks, RS is the true source and bi-lateral sessions are not even considered. We may not always peer with an RS, but we will always have bi-lateral sessions... even when we have sessions to the RS. Mark.
Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY
Some companies just don't join route servers as a policy. It can be annoying if you want to talk to them, but I understand there can be various reasons why. It gets very annoying when the peering department isn't responsive to manual peering requests when they're not on the route server because then they might as well not be there at all, as far as you're concerned. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "valdis kletnieks" To: "i3D.net - Martijn Schmidt" Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 7:32:17 PM Subject: Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 23:55:40 +, "i3D.net - Martijn Schmidt" said: > Here: all networks that didn't already change their peering IP are not > yet connected to the updated route-server. Some networks are not > connected to any route-server. Therefore, those networks did not yet > change their peering IP. > > I think you can see what's wrong with that statement.. it does not > follow. That has nothing to do with peering department resources, but > everything to do with the chosen peering strategy. Under what conditions would somebody be present at the exchange and not talking to the route server *at all* before the IP change?
Re: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY
A lot of huge companies apparently find it tough to find the $75k to hire one more peering person. Not all, though. For many, everything just runs like clockwork. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Jason Lixfeld" To: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 7:52:09 AM Subject: Calling LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai @ DE-CIX NY Hi, In late October 2018, DE-CIX announced that they would be renumbering their IPv4 address block in New York between 01-28-19 and 01-30-19. This was followed by numerous reminders in months, weeks and even days leading up to the renumbering activity. The renumbering activity has come and gone, but LinkedIn, Amazon and Akamai are still using the old IPs. If three months has gone by and the numerous reminders that have been sent have resulted in these organizations still living on the old IP space, it seems to me that there may be some sort of a disconnect between who receives the notifications from IXPs and how they are filtered upstream. I’m hopeful that the eyeballs who read this list are some of those folks who should have received the notifications from DE-CIX, or can at least filter the info back downstream to whoever can perform the renumbering activity. Thanks.
Re: Amazon Peering
Oh, you ordered cross connects for a PNI and they stopped responding mid-project? Isn't that nice! - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Luca Salvatore via NANOG" To: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:45:29 AM Subject: Re: Amazon Peering Similar experiences here with Amazon. Initially had semi-regular responses from their peering team, they issued LOAs, I ordered the x-connects and then radio silence for months. At the point now where I'm disconnecting x-connects since it's a waste of money. On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brooks Swinnerton < bswinner...@gmail.com > wrote: I also saw sessions come up this weekend, no routes yet though. On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:56 PM Tom Beecher wrote: Mike- Definitely moving forward now. Someone from Amazon was working with my peering group and things started coming up this weekend, so it seems like they're catching up pretty good now. On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 2:45 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: Let us know your success as well. I'll hold off following up on my requests until I see that other people are successful. I don't want to contribute to flooding them with requests. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Tom Beecher" To: "Jason Lixfeld" < jason+na...@lixfeld.ca > Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 1:38:51 PM Subject: Re: Amazon Peering Thanks Jason. I'll have my peering team take another crack at reaching out and see what happens. Appreciate it! On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 2:21 PM Jason Lixfeld < jason+na...@lixfeld.ca > wrote: We circled back with them yesterday on a request we made in late November where at the time they said they wouldn’t be turned up until 2019 due to holiday network change freeze. They responded within about 4 hours, thanked us for our patience and understanding and said we should expect them to be turned up in about 6 weeks, which is apparently their typical timing. On Jan 24, 2019, at 2:13 PM, Tom Beecher < beec...@beecher.cc > wrote: I hate to necro-thread , but has anyone seen any movement from Amazon on this? I just got a Strongly Worded Message about it, and according to my peering team , it's been radio silence for months. On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 12:32 PM JASON BOTHE via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > wrote: This is a note I received on Oct18 when checking on a peering request submitted on Aug7.. “Apologies for the delays here. We have temporarily frozen IX peering as we revise some of our automation processes. I’m hopeful this will be unblocked by early November. Thank you for your continued patience.” On Nov 24, 2018, at 10:59, Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: It seems wasteful for Amazon to connect to an IX but then ignore peering requests for a year. They have 40G of connectivity but are unresponsive. I'll try emailing all the other contacts listed in peeringdb. Thanks On Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 10:38 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net wrote: I've e-mailed my contacts there a couple times on people's behalf. No response yet. It seems like a lot of organizations need 1 more person in their peering departments. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > To: "North American Network Operators' Group" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 10:21:51 PM Subject: Amazon Peering Hey all, Does anyone have a direct contact to get a peering session established with Amazon at an IX? I sent a peering request Dec 2017 and two more times this Sept and Nov with no response. I sent to peer...@amazon.com and received one automated response back so I know they received my email but nothing since. -- Darin Steffl Minnesota WiFi www.mnwifi.com 507-634-WiFi Like us on Facebook
Re: Comcast email contact
Please move this to the Mail Ops mailing list. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Josh Smith" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 4:41:51 PM Subject: Comcast email contact Can someone from comcast email please contact me off-list. You all appear to be black holing email received from $DAYJOBS domain. Your support from indicates we are not blocked. Our logs indicate the mail is accepted for delivery but they never make it to users inboxes, or junk/spam folders. Thanks, Josh Smith
Re: Amazon Peering
Let us know your success as well. I'll hold off following up on my requests until I see that other people are successful. I don't want to contribute to flooding them with requests. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Tom Beecher" To: "Jason Lixfeld" Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 1:38:51 PM Subject: Re: Amazon Peering Thanks Jason. I'll have my peering team take another crack at reaching out and see what happens. Appreciate it! On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 2:21 PM Jason Lixfeld < jason+na...@lixfeld.ca > wrote: We circled back with them yesterday on a request we made in late November where at the time they said they wouldn’t be turned up until 2019 due to holiday network change freeze. They responded within about 4 hours, thanked us for our patience and understanding and said we should expect them to be turned up in about 6 weeks, which is apparently their typical timing. On Jan 24, 2019, at 2:13 PM, Tom Beecher < beec...@beecher.cc > wrote: I hate to necro-thread , but has anyone seen any movement from Amazon on this? I just got a Strongly Worded Message about it, and according to my peering team , it's been radio silence for months. On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 12:32 PM JASON BOTHE via NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > wrote: This is a note I received on Oct18 when checking on a peering request submitted on Aug7.. “Apologies for the delays here. We have temporarily frozen IX peering as we revise some of our automation processes. I’m hopeful this will be unblocked by early November. Thank you for your continued patience.” On Nov 24, 2018, at 10:59, Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: It seems wasteful for Amazon to connect to an IX but then ignore peering requests for a year. They have 40G of connectivity but are unresponsive. I'll try emailing all the other contacts listed in peeringdb. Thanks On Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 10:38 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net wrote: I've e-mailed my contacts there a couple times on people's behalf. No response yet. It seems like a lot of organizations need 1 more person in their peering departments. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > To: "North American Network Operators' Group" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 10:21:51 PM Subject: Amazon Peering Hey all, Does anyone have a direct contact to get a peering session established with Amazon at an IX? I sent a peering request Dec 2017 and two more times this Sept and Nov with no response. I sent to peer...@amazon.com and received one automated response back so I know they received my email but nothing since. -- Darin Steffl Minnesota WiFi www.mnwifi.com 507-634-WiFi Like us on Facebook
Re: Charter Porting
Today I got the form to fill out to gain access to their portal. Thanks for your help. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" To: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 6:02:46 PM Subject: Charter Porting I first tried on VoiceOps, but didn't get any responses. Anyone have a useful contact in Charter's porting department? We've been trying to port a number for 10 days, but haven't been setup with their portal yet. The luck I'm having with the people at the e-mail address (charter.stl@charter.com) specified in their porting instructions web site (https://www.spectrum.com/policies/local-number-portability-business-rules.html) is about as good as building a bridge out of wet noodles. Can't start the port until we have access to their portal. Can't get access to their portal until they pull their heads out. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Charter Porting
I first tried on VoiceOps, but didn't get any responses. Anyone have a useful contact in Charter's porting department? We've been trying to port a number for 10 days, but haven't been setup with their portal yet. The luck I'm having with the people at the e-mail address (charter.stl@charter.com) specified in their porting instructions web site (https://www.spectrum.com/policies/local-number-portability-business-rules.html) is about as good as building a bridge out of wet noodles. Can't start the port until we have access to their portal. Can't get access to their portal until they pull their heads out. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform
What's new in 6.44beta39 (2018-Nov-27 12:14): !) speedtest - added "/tool speed-test" for ping latency, jitter, loss and TCP and UDP download, upload speed measurements (CLI only); https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Tools/Speed_Test https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Tools/Traffic_Generator https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Tools/Bandwidth_Test ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Colton Conor" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Philip Loenneker" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 8:31:58 AM Subject: Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform Mike, So are you saying in Mikrotik, there is a Btest tool, a traffic generator tool, and a new speed-test tool? Sounds like this low cost CPE has a ton of options for remote speed test functionality? On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:16 PM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: Mikrotik RC has a new speed-test tool. I believe it's an improved BTEst. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Philip Loenneker" < philip.loenne...@tasmanet.com.au > To: "NANOG" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:07:04 PM Subject: RE: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform Connor, If you use the Traffic Generator tool instead of the Bandwidth Test tool built into MikroTik, you can definitely flood a 1Gbps link. However it requires the device to receive the packets that it has sent out, so it’s only viable for links with the same up/down speed. We have been investigating some TR-069 platforms, and several of those offer speed test functionality built in. This means our helpdesk guys can just click a few buttons to trigger it, it only talks to the CPE (nothing on customer LAN), and people don’t need to know how to configure the test other than “click here”. TR-069 also has a lot of other advantages which you can easily discover with a quick search. Regards, Philip Loenneker | Network Engineer | TasmaNet From: NANOG < nanog-boun...@nanog.org > On Behalf Of Colton Conor Sent: Friday, 18 January 2019 12:17 AM To: James Bensley < jwbens...@gmail.com > Cc: NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform All, thanks for the recommendations both on and off list. It has been brought to my attention that a Mikrotik has a bandwidth speed test tool built into their operating system. Someone recommended a https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac2 for MSRP of $69. The release notes of the newest version say: !) speedtest - added "/tool speed-test" for ping latency, jitter, loss and TCP and UDP download, upload speed measurements (CLI only); *) btest - added multithreading support for both UDP and TCP tests; Do you think this device can push a full 1Gbps connection? It does have a quad core qualcom processor. Besides mikrotik, I haven't found anything that doesn't require me to build a solution. Like OpenWRT with ipef3, or something like that. Seems like a commercial solution would exist for this. I though CAF providers have to test bandwidth for the FCC randomly to get funding? On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:59 AM James Bensley < jwbens...@gmail.com > wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 16:54, Colton Conor < colton.co...@gmail.com > wrote: > > As an internet service provider with many small business and residential > customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers > complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc. > > We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells us > up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course see the > link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that speed. > > We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections > besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net , or worse sending a tech > out with a laptop to do the same thing. > > What opensource and commercial options are out there? Hi Colton, In the past I have used CPEs which support remote loopback. When the customer complains we enable remote loopback, send the traffic to that customers connection (rather than requiring a CPE that can generate the traffic or having an on site device) and measuring what comes back. Cheers, James.
Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform
Mikrotik RC has a new speed-test tool. I believe it's an improved BTEst. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Philip Loenneker" To: "NANOG" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:07:04 PM Subject: RE: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform Connor, If you use the Traffic Generator tool instead of the Bandwidth Test tool built into MikroTik, you can definitely flood a 1Gbps link. However it requires the device to receive the packets that it has sent out, so it’s only viable for links with the same up/down speed. We have been investigating some TR-069 platforms, and several of those offer speed test functionality built in. This means our helpdesk guys can just click a few buttons to trigger it, it only talks to the CPE (nothing on customer LAN), and people don’t need to know how to configure the test other than “click here”. TR-069 also has a lot of other advantages which you can easily discover with a quick search. Regards, Philip Loenneker | Network Engineer | TasmaNet From: NANOG On Behalf Of Colton Conor Sent: Friday, 18 January 2019 12:17 AM To: James Bensley Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform All, thanks for the recommendations both on and off list. It has been brought to my attention that a Mikrotik has a bandwidth speed test tool built into their operating system. Someone recommended a https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac2 for MSRP of $69. The release notes of the newest version say: !) speedtest - added "/tool speed-test" for ping latency, jitter, loss and TCP and UDP download, upload speed measurements (CLI only); *) btest - added multithreading support for both UDP and TCP tests; Do you think this device can push a full 1Gbps connection? It does have a quad core qualcom processor. Besides mikrotik, I haven't found anything that doesn't require me to build a solution. Like OpenWRT with ipef3, or something like that. Seems like a commercial solution would exist for this. I though CAF providers have to test bandwidth for the FCC randomly to get funding? On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:59 AM James Bensley < jwbens...@gmail.com > wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 16:54, Colton Conor < colton.co...@gmail.com > wrote: > > As an internet service provider with many small business and residential > customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers > complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc. > > We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells us > up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course see the > link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that speed. > > We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections > besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net , or worse sending a tech > out with a laptop to do the same thing. > > What opensource and commercial options are out there? Hi Colton, In the past I have used CPEs which support remote loopback. When the customer complains we enable remote loopback, send the traffic to that customers connection (rather than requiring a CPE that can generate the traffic or having an on site device) and measuring what comes back. Cheers, James.
Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform
Good luck with that if their only devices are tablets, phones, and Rokus? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "David Guo via NANOG" To: "Colton Conor" , "NANOG" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 10:55:51 AM Subject: Re: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform We ask our customers use iperf3 to test speed. Get Outlook for iOS From: NANOG on behalf of Colton Conor Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 00:54 To: NANOG Subject: Network Speed Testing and Monitoring Platform As an internet service provider with many small business and residential customers, our most common tech support calls are speed related. Customers complaining on slow speeds, slowdowns, etc. We have a SNMP and ping monitoring platform today, but that mainly tells us up-time and if data is flowing across the interface. We can of course see the link speed, but customer call in saying the are not getting that speed. We are looking for a way to remotely test customers internet connections besides telling the customer to go to speedtest.net , or worse sending a tech out with a laptop to do the same thing. What opensource and commercial options are out there?
Re: Cable/Wireless-Tower Map for the San Francisco Bay Coastside?
https://www.cellmapper.net/map has crowd-sourced tower maps. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Yosem Companys" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:29:27 PM Subject: Cable/Wireless-Tower Map for the San Francisco Bay Coastside? Hey All, Does anyone know whether there's a map that shows the cable/wireless-tower map for the San Francisco Bay Coastside (i.e., from Montara to Half Moon Bay)? A few days ago, a truck hit a PG post on Highway 92, which traverses from San Mateo to Half Moon Bay. The accident caused the post to fall to the ground. The Coastside has one Comcast-owned, fiber-optic cable that crosses the mountains from Silicon Valley to the Coastside. I guess the cable must run on PG posts because not only did the accident cause a blackout in some areas of the Coastside but also the entire Coastside was left without almost any Cable TV, Internet, or mobile phone connectivity for practically 24 hours. I only have anecdotal evidence, but it seems that there was no Comcast or Verizon service whatsoever because Verizon leases the fiber-optic line from Comcast. It also seems that DirecTV and AT were not affected, and the theories vary as to why. Perhaps AT uses a combination of copper wire and wireless to service the area. DirecTV allegedly leases connectivity from AT I've also heard that Sprint PCS paid the owner of a building near the El Granada post office to use it to relay a mobile signal from there. But when I asked on Nextdoor about the incident no one mentioned Sprint. In prior discussions, Coastside residents say they avoid Sprint and AT due to their spotty service. And I know nothing about T-Mobile. The reason I ask is because this is not the first time that Coastside residents have been left without mobile service, cable TV, and Internet connectivity. In fact, it seems to be a frequent phenomenon, making me wonder that if the infrastructure here is so fragile what would happen in the case of the "Big One" or, God forbid, a Tsunami or major storm surge. I understand that there's a plan for emergency responders to maintain Internet and mobile connectivity that includes microwave connectivity, but I have yet to obtain the details. So I'm trying to get as much data as I can to help local decision-makers figure out how to make the Coastside more resilient before the next disaster strikes. Thanks, Yosem
Re: plaintext email?
Check with the contacts listed on their PeeringDB entry. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Christoffer Hansen" To: br...@ampr.org, na...@ics-il.net Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 2:01:20 PM Subject: Re: plaintext email? On 13/01/2019 20:57, Brian Kantor wrote: > Are you trying to start another flame war? I certainly hope to avoid this discussion currently! (back to 1) @NETFLIX: Anybody willing to listen to previous stated comment and take action on it? - Christoffer
Re: (Netflix/GlobalConnect a/s) Scheduled Open Connect Appliance upgrade is starting
People use plain-text e-mail on purpose? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Christoffer Hansen" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 1:46:08 PM Subject: Fwd: (Netflix/GlobalConnect a/s) Scheduled Open Connect Appliance upgrade is starting Sent to NANOG, Anyone from NETFLIX subscribed? Could you please fix the below type notification e-mails to ALSO be available if one ONLY USES PLAIN-TEXT email clients? Currently the notice information is formatted in such a way the PLAIN-TEXT section is completely EMPTY. ONLY the HTML section contains information. (E-mail client on my case is Thunderbird) -- Cheers Christoffer Forwarded Message Subject: (Netflix/***) Scheduled Open Connect Appliance upgrade is starting Resent-From: *** Date: *** Jan 2019 *** From: Netflix Reply-To: no_re...@netflix.com To: *** Netflix Hello ***, The scheduled upgrade of your Open Connect Appliance(s) (OCAs) is beginning now. The list of affected appliances is: IP Address Name Facility *** *** ***
Re: Could Someone From Yahoo Mail Please Contact Me
Try the mailop mailing list linked to in the past couple days. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Matt Hoppes" To: "North American Network Operators' Group" Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 3:18:24 PM Subject: Could Someone From Yahoo Mail Please Contact Me Our customers who use yahoo.com e-mail addresses are saying they aren't receiving invoices from our billing system. I checked our mail logs and I'm getting this: Jan 12 16:11:34 account postfix/smtp[9802]: 1FA906C0E61: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[98.136.101.117] said: 421 4.7.0 [TSS04] Messages temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see https://help.yahoo.com/kb/postmaster/SLN3434.html (in reply to MAIL FROM command) The link suggests several things to do and we've waited over 48 hours and still can't get invoices through. The invoice server is definitely not compromised, and honestly I can't imagine there would be enough complaints to trigger a global block of that IP address, and we only have a small number of customers using @epix.net e-mail addresses. Thanks!
Re: Announcing: "dumpsterfire", the mailing list for IoT security/privacy issues
No HTTPS?!?! Where are the tar and feathers??!?!! This isn't something that needs HTTPS. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Yang Yu" To: "Rich Kulawiec" Cc: "NANOG list" Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 10:23:31 AM Subject: Re: Announcing: "dumpsterfire", the mailing list for IoT security/privacy issues On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:23 AM Rich Kulawiec wrote: > > The "dumpsterfire" mailing list is for the discussion of security and > privacy issues related to the IoT (Internet of Things). Arguably, > the entire IoT *is* a security and privacy issue, but we'll get to that > in good time. > > If you want to join, you can either use the list's web page: > > http://www.firemountain.net/mailman/listinfo/dumpsterfire > > or the list's subscription/unsubscription address: > > dumpsterfire-requ...@firemountain.net > > The list is public and so is its archive. * no HTTPS * archive is returning HTTP 403
Re: Proofpoint Mail Delivery Issues
There is a mailing list dedicated to email system operators. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Tim Donahue" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 4:20:50 PM Subject: Proofpoint Mail Delivery Issues Hi all, Sorry for the noise, but one of my clients is getting the standard “it’s the other guy’s fault” with some email delivery issues to/from Proofpoint “Enterprise” customers. If there is anyone from Proofpoint support monitoring this list, some assistance troubleshooting email delivery issues would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Tim Donahue
Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
It's easier when you use carriers that provide usable network maps on their web site. Less guess work. When I got a Windstream wave, I got a PDF that was the device CLLI and port number of each device in the path A - Z. Obviously they could change it without informing me of the new path, but I at least know at order it's different and can ask for details when there are outages or latency changes that indicate a change in path. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Steve Naslund" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 11:33:43 AM Subject: RE: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) All true but it is becoming increasingly difficult to determine if a provider is using another providers infrastructure (all are at some level). For example, in the SIP world there are several national level carriers that are using Level 3s core SIP network and if you were not aware of that you could buy trunks from two of the largest SIP trunk providers in the US and actually be running on the same network. Carriers are also very often reliant on the ILEC for fiber and last mile access. Especially in non-metro areas getting diverse last mile access could be impossible or have huge construction costs. It is pretty complicated to ensure that your carriers are really diverse and much harder to ensure that they stay that way. I have many examples of carrier grooming their own primary and backup circuits onto the same L1 path and not realize they have done so. Contractual diversity is a great idea that does not work since the carriers do not actually know what each other’s network looks like. So let’s say that Sprint and CenturyLink choose the same fiber carrier between areas, do you think they would notify each other of that fact? Do you think the fiber carrier would tell them what another customer’s network looks like? You can tell Sprint to not use CenturyLink but there is no way to get both of them not to use the same third party. I suppose you could contractually tell a carrier to avoid xxx cable but I would have little faith that they maintain that over time. I seriously doubt they review all existing contracts when re-grooming their networks. Steven Naslund Chicago IL > I'm of the opinion that, if you need resiliency, you should order explicitly > diverse circuits from a primary provider and then a secondary circuit from a > second vendor. > > Ultimately, If you want contractually-enforced physical diversity then the > best options will be single-vendor solutions: Obviously you also want to > avoid an unknown single-vendor single-point-of-failure, hence the > secondary > provider. Having two vendors is usually a less than optimal solution since > neither has visibility into the others' network to ensure the physical > diversity required for a truly resilient service: what happens if > an > undersea cable is cut, etc? > > The cost of such solutions is often unpleasant to justify, mind. > > ~a
Re: Service Provider NetFlow Collectors
I just recently rolled out Elastiflow. Lots of great information. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Michel 'ic' Luczak" To: "Erik Sundberg" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 3:40:40 AM Subject: Re: Service Provider NetFlow Collectors Don’t underestimate good old ELK https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/logstash/current/netflow-module.html + https://github.com/robcowart/elastiflow BR, ic On 31 Dec 2018, at 04:29, Erik Sundberg < esundb...@nitelusa.com > wrote: Hi Nanog…. We are looking at replacing our Netflow collector. I am wonder what other service providers are using to collect netflow data off their Core and Edge Routers. Pros/Cons… What to watch out for any info would help. We are mainly looking to analyze the netflow data. Bonus if it does ddos detection and mitigation. We are looking at ManageEngine Netflow Analyzer PRTG Plixer – Scrutinizer PeakFlow Kentik Solarwinds NTA Thanks in advance… Erik CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
Re: CenturyLink RCA?
It's technical enough so that laypeople immediately lose interest, yet completely useless to anyone that works with this stuff. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Saku Ytti" To: "nanog list" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:42:49 AM Subject: CenturyLink RCA? Apologies for the URL, I do not know official source and I do not share the URLs sentiment. https://fuckingcenturylink.com/ Can someone translate this to IP engineer? What did actually happen? >From my own history, I rarely recognise the problem I fixed from reading the public RCA. I hope CenturyLink will do better. Best guess so far that I've heard is a) CenturyLink runs global L2 DCN/OOB b) there was HW fault which caused L2 loop (perhaps HW dropped BPDU, I've had this failure mode) c) DCN had direct access to control-plane, and L2 congested control-plane resources causing it to deprovision waves Now of course this is entirely speculation, but intended to show what type of explanation is acceptable and can be used to fix things. Hopefully CenturyLink does come out with IP-engineering readable explanation, so that we may use it as leverage to support work in our own domains to remove such risks. a) do not run L2 DCN/OOB b) do not connect MGMT ETH (it is unprotected access to control-plane, it cannot be protected by CoPP/lo0 filter/LPTS ec) c) do add in your RFP scoring item for proper OOB port (Like Cisco CMP) d) do fail optical network up -- ++ytti
Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
I guess today shows how important vendor diversity can be. :-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mehmet Akcin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Ben Cannon" , "nanog" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 2:51:38 PM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) Back to main discussion How do we choose the best transport? One question, how much people care about vendor diversity? I do and did care. I don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket. Do you care? Thank you Mehmet On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 11:30 Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: I haven't. Sure, but the equipment still does smaller channels. Going to 100G or 400G for just over 10G seems silly. If Equinix had reasonable cross connects, I'd just LAG 10Gs. The cost of a pair of Equinix cross connects isn't much less than the 10G wave. Thankfully I'm only in one datacenter with such a ridiculous model. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Ben Cannon" < b...@6by7.net > To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > Cc: "Luke Guillory" < lguill...@reservetele.com >, "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 1:27:21 PM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) Mike have you looked at Packetlight? Long-haul is mostly jumping to 100 or even 400g coherent. -Ben On Dec 15, 2018, at 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: FS had one, but it's not on their site anymore. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Luke Guillory" < lguill...@reservetele.com > To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > Cc: "Eric Dugas" < edu...@unknowndevice.ca >, "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 10:52:19 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) No cost affective 10x10G to 100G muxponder? Sent from my iPad On Dec 15, 2018, at 4:46 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: heh, cross connects are indeed a major issue. I have a need for > 10G transport. My equipment supports 40G. The carriers aren't terribly interested in doing 40G transport (at least not at a reasonable price, one quote was over 4x a 10G). 100G-capable switches cost too much. Equinix charges as much for a pair of cross connects as a 10G wave. Carriers aren't likely to be interested in using bidi optics or passive WDM to overcome the ridiculous cross connect charges. This all complicates how one chooses transport. There's no easy path forward. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Eric Dugas" < edu...@unknowndevice.ca > To: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > Cc: "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 11:42:53 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) I also look at hand-off locations (as long as it doesn't compromise the overall robustness of the design). Most providers will be able to hand-off in the BMMR of a carrier hotel and some will have the flexibility to hand-off in particular suites within the same building or other locations near where the cross-connects fees are lower. I've seen cross-connect fees between $50 up to $750 MRC so if you need multiple wavelengths (for capacity), the cross-connect fees are going to make a huge difference on the total MRC. Eric Luke Guillory Vice President – Technology and Innovation Tel:985.536.1212 Fax:985.536.0300 Email: lguill...@reservetele.com Web:www.rtconline.com Reserve Telecommunications 100 RTC Dr Reserve, LA 70084 Disclaimer: The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate, distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. On Dec 14 2018, at 12:17 pm, Mehmet Akcin < meh...@akcin.net > wrote: Thank you e
Re: Spectrum technical contact
Did you try their NOC on their PeeringDB page? https://www.peeringdb.com/net/2144 - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Josh Luthman" To: "NANOG list" Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 3:51:10 PM Subject: Spectrum technical contact We have had a DOS attack for over 12 hours. I simply want them to null route or black hole an address. The traffic is filling one of our circus with them. The farthest I got was them telling me they can't do route changes because we're not public safety. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX
I think anyone not Equinix, DRT, CoreSite, etc. is building into multiple datacenter providers in their markets, some just more aggressively than others. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Robert DeVita" To: "Mike Hammett" , "Darin Steffl" Cc: "NANOG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:37:52 AM Subject: RE: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX The biggest difference we see is that the “non commercial” IX’s are now building metro fabrics across multiple different datacenter providers. When you look at the costs, you need to look at the colo as part of that cost also. Allowing datacenters to compete for space and power drives down the costs for end users while also allowing them to connect to the fabric. https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/c4ed298e-00ea-415c-8059-9ce09ac88788/logo/f3a10962-7bab-4600-a5fa-560682049597.jpg/:/rs=h:125 Robert DeVita Managing Director p: 214-305-2444 e: radev...@mejeticks.com http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/linkedin_sig.png From: NANOG < nanog-boun...@nanog.org > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:11 AM To: Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > Cc: NANOG Mailing List < nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX Someone's typically paying the difference in a non-profit IX. Someone's donating piles of cash, free dark fiber, free colo, etc. You're either paying your own way, or you have a port subsidized by someone else. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but you have to make sure you count that when you talk about "cost". They're also over twice the size, and in half the number of buildings (per PeeringDB, anyway). They've also been around over twice as long. Scale helps with cost. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > Cc: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net >, "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:34:32 AM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX http://micemn.net/services.html MICE in Minneapolis is a great IX that we are on and their port fees are very reasonable. They used to be completely free up until this year. Even so, their fees are virtually nothing which encourages more operators to connect to it versus For-Profit IX's where sometimes the fees are almost as much as transit. For example Midwest-IX is $9,300 per year for a 10G port but MICE is only $250 per year. That's a HUGE difference and MICE also has way more peers and traffic overall due to how easy and cheap it is to join. On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:27 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: Not all transit is cheap and not all transit is good quality, regardless of what it costs. ;-) At our IX, we regularly see clients whose total network usage goes up once they're on the IX. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > To: "Clayton Zekelman" < clay...@mnsi.net > Cc: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net >, "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org >, "Tim Raphael" < raphael.timo...@gmail.com > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:19:43 AM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX Torix and Six are great examples. If you want to be for profit, make sure to publish port pricing and keep it fair. Transit is cheap and good quality On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 08:14 Clayton Zekelman < clay...@mnsi.net > wrote: TorIX is a great example of a not for profit IX that is very successful. https://www.torix.ca/ A very dedicated team of people provide an incredible level of service. Thave a very transparent process. Their pricing is listed up front on their website: https://www.torix.ca/peering/#pricing At 09:03 AM 21/12/2018, Mike Hammett wrote: As far as neutral, I meant separate from the datacenters in which they're housed. People in NA seem to think there are only two kinds of IXes, Equinix, DRT, Coresite types and NWAX, SIX, MICE types. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Tim Raphael" < raphael.timo...@gmail.com > To: "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:39:42 PM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-p
Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX
Someone's typically paying the difference in a non-profit IX. Someone's donating piles of cash, free dark fiber, free colo, etc. You're either paying your own way, or you have a port subsidized by someone else. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but you have to make sure you count that when you talk about "cost". They're also over twice the size, and in half the number of buildings (per PeeringDB, anyway). They've also been around over twice as long. Scale helps with cost. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Darin Steffl" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Mehmet Akcin" , "NANOG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:34:32 AM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX http://micemn.net/services.html MICE in Minneapolis is a great IX that we are on and their port fees are very reasonable. They used to be completely free up until this year. Even so, their fees are virtually nothing which encourages more operators to connect to it versus For-Profit IX's where sometimes the fees are almost as much as transit. For example Midwest-IX is $9,300 per year for a 10G port but MICE is only $250 per year. That's a HUGE difference and MICE also has way more peers and traffic overall due to how easy and cheap it is to join. On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:27 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: Not all transit is cheap and not all transit is good quality, regardless of what it costs. ;-) At our IX, we regularly see clients whose total network usage goes up once they're on the IX. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > To: "Clayton Zekelman" < clay...@mnsi.net > Cc: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net >, "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org >, "Tim Raphael" < raphael.timo...@gmail.com > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:19:43 AM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX Torix and Six are great examples. If you want to be for profit, make sure to publish port pricing and keep it fair. Transit is cheap and good quality On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 08:14 Clayton Zekelman < clay...@mnsi.net > wrote: TorIX is a great example of a not for profit IX that is very successful. https://www.torix.ca/ A very dedicated team of people provide an incredible level of service. Thave a very transparent process. Their pricing is listed up front on their website: https://www.torix.ca/peering/#pricing At 09:03 AM 21/12/2018, Mike Hammett wrote: As far as neutral, I meant separate from the datacenters in which they're housed. People in NA seem to think there are only two kinds of IXes, Equinix, DRT, Coresite types and NWAX, SIX, MICE types. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Tim Raphael" < raphael.timo...@gmail.com > To: "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:39:42 PM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX The other point to consider is that a NFP can justify more locations and offer services (such as extended reach) that don’t have the same profit margins or ROI as for-profits. This often leads to greater value to those with smaller networks and fewer customers allowing them to grow and expand without increased aggregation or transit costs. This in-turn leads to a richer array of providers and chips away at the monopolies in niche markets. The NFP IXP I work for focuses on providing value to the broader community and the Internet as a whole - especially somewhere like Australia which has unique constraints. Additionally, “Neutral†and For-Profit doesn’t always compute in my mind, there will always be commercial alliances that lead to not-total neutrality. When a NFP is owned by it’s members there has to be 100% transparency in organisational decisions around member funds and resources which ensures accountability reliability. - Tim > On 21 Dec 2018, at 3:58 am, Brielle Bruns < br...@2mbit.com > wrote: > > On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote: >> Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise >> then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit >> the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. >> Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard. > > Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to how the > hospitals are here in Boise. > > The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, pr
Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX
Not all transit is cheap and not all transit is good quality, regardless of what it costs. ;-) At our IX, we regularly see clients whose total network usage goes up once they're on the IX. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mehmet Akcin" To: "Clayton Zekelman" Cc: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG Mailing List" , "Tim Raphael" Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:19:43 AM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX Torix and Six are great examples. If you want to be for profit, make sure to publish port pricing and keep it fair. Transit is cheap and good quality On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 08:14 Clayton Zekelman < clay...@mnsi.net > wrote: TorIX is a great example of a not for profit IX that is very successful. https://www.torix.ca/ A very dedicated team of people provide an incredible level of service. Thave a very transparent process. Their pricing is listed up front on their website: https://www.torix.ca/peering/#pricing At 09:03 AM 21/12/2018, Mike Hammett wrote: As far as neutral, I meant separate from the datacenters in which they're housed. People in NA seem to think there are only two kinds of IXes, Equinix, DRT, Coresite types and NWAX, SIX, MICE types. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Tim Raphael" < raphael.timo...@gmail.com > To: "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:39:42 PM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX The other point to consider is that a NFP can justify more locations and offer services (such as extended reach) that don’t have the same profit margins or ROI as for-profits. This often leads to greater value to those with smaller networks and fewer customers allowing them to grow and expand without increased aggregation or transit costs. This in-turn leads to a richer array of providers and chips away at the monopolies in niche markets. The NFP IXP I work for focuses on providing value to the broader community and the Internet as a whole - especially somewhere like Australia which has unique constraints. Additionally, “Neutral†and For-Profit doesn’t always compute in my mind, there will always be commercial alliances that lead to not-total neutrality. When a NFP is owned by it’s members there has to be 100% transparency in organisational decisions around member funds and resources which ensures accountability reliability. - Tim > On 21 Dec 2018, at 3:58 am, Brielle Bruns < br...@2mbit.com > wrote: > > On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote: >> Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise >> then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit >> the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. >> Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard. > > Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to how the > hospitals are here in Boise. > > The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, price gouging, etc. Their care > can be pretty meh, esp since they bought up all the little independent > clinics (yay, ER pricing for a basic family clinic visit). > > The for-profit smaller clinics and hospitals run a pretty tight ship, better > value for their money, service is very good, and compete with one another for > who has the best service. > > People think they are getting 'better' because they are going to a place that > is supposed to be run to benefit people over profit, but alas, you'd be very > very wrong. > -- > Brielle Bruns > The Summit Open Source Development Group > http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org > -- Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4 tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409 -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX
As far as neutral, I meant separate from the datacenters in which they're housed. People in NA seem to think there are only two kinds of IXes, Equinix, DRT, Coresite types and NWAX, SIX, MICE types. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Tim Raphael" To: "NANOG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:39:42 PM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX The other point to consider is that a NFP can justify more locations and offer services (such as extended reach) that don’t have the same profit margins or ROI as for-profits. This often leads to greater value to those with smaller networks and fewer customers allowing them to grow and expand without increased aggregation or transit costs. This in-turn leads to a richer array of providers and chips away at the monopolies in niche markets. The NFP IXP I work for focuses on providing value to the broader community and the Internet as a whole - especially somewhere like Australia which has unique constraints. Additionally, “Neutral” and For-Profit doesn’t always compute in my mind, there will always be commercial alliances that lead to not-total neutrality. When a NFP is owned by it’s members there has to be 100% transparency in organisational decisions around member funds and resources which ensures accountability reliability. - Tim > On 21 Dec 2018, at 3:58 am, Brielle Bruns wrote: > > On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote: >> Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise >> then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit >> the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. >> Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard. > > Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to how the > hospitals are here in Boise. > > The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, price gouging, etc. Their care > can be pretty meh, esp since they bought up all the little independent > clinics (yay, ER pricing for a basic family clinic visit). > > The for-profit smaller clinics and hospitals run a pretty tight ship, better > value for their money, service is very good, and compete with one another for > who has the best service. > > People think they are getting 'better' because they are going to a place that > is supposed to be run to benefit people over profit, but alas, you'd be very > very wrong. > -- > Brielle Bruns > The Summit Open Source Development Group > http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org >
Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX
What are your thoughts on why a network would join a non-profit IX, but not a neutral, for-profit IX? Let's assume that traffic levels are similar. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Re: Facebook doesn't have a route to my ISP's (Cogeco) IPv6 space?
Cogent != Cogeco - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "David Guo via NANOG" To: "Brian J. Murrell" , nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 11:39:00 AM Subject: RE: Facebook doesn't have a route to my ISP's (Cogeco) IPv6 space? It's problem from Cogentco, they do not have IPv6 peer with HE.net and Google -Original Message- From: NANOG On Behalf Of Brian J. Murrell Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 4:02 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Facebook doesn't have a route to my ISP's (Cogeco) IPv6 space? I've been trying to figure out why I can reach an IPv6 address at Facebook (2a03:2880:f012:3:face:b00c:0:1) through (only) one of my two Internet connections as well as via an HE IPv6 tunnel but not the other of my two ISP connections At one point in time a traceroute was dying inside of he.net: Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. 2001:1970:5261:d600::1 0.0% 7 2.1 1.3 0.7 2.9 0.8 2. 2001:1970:4000:82::1 0.0% 7 10.0 14.0 8.3 37.9 10.6 3. 2001:1970:0:1a6::1 16.7% 7 13.2 215.5 10.8 1031. 455.9 4. he.ip6.torontointernetxchange.net 0.0% 7 12.3 12.9 11.2 15.3 1.6 5. 100ge9-2.core2.chi1.he.net 0.0% 7 23.6 23.0 21.3 27.6 2.2 6. 100ge15-2.core1.chi1.he.net 0.0% 7 21.7 22.5 21.6 24.9 1.2 7. 100ge12-1.core1.atl1.he.net 0.0% 7 34.2 35.1 34.1 36.1 0.7 8. 100ge5-1.core1.tpa1.he.net 0.0% 7 49.1 46.6 44.8 49.1 1.5 9. 100ge12-1.core1.mia1.he.net 0.0% 7 51.6 54.5 50.5 73.3 8.3 10. ??? But I think it getting that far time was an anomaly and frankly it usually dies even before exiting my ISP's (Cogeco) network like this: Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. 2001:1970:5261:d600::1 0.0% 33 0.6 0.7 0.6 1.0 0.1 2. 2001:1970:4000:82::1 0.0% 33 8.2 10.8 8.1 40.5 5.6 3. 2001:1970:0:1a7::1 15.2% 33 23.4 20.1 16.5 23.4 1.5 4. 2001:1970:0:61::1 33.3% 33 16.8 17.6 14.5 25.9 2.5 5. 2001:1978:1300::1 0.0% 33 16.0 17.5 14.2 29.6 3.1 6. 2001:1978:203::45 0.0% 33 30.7 30.7 28.4 35.1 1.7 7. ??? When I asked the kind folks at he.net for some advice about the problem (i.e. in the first traceroute above) their diagnosis was that Facebook's IPv6 router(s) likely didn't have a route back to my Cogeco IPv6 address. Trying to talk to my ISP (again, Cogeco) has been impossible. One simply cannot reach the people who know more than how to reset your router and configure your e-mail. I wonder how I could go any further with this to confirm the diagnosis that Facebook doesn't have a route to the Cogeco network's IPv6 address space given that I only have access to my end of the path. Cheers, b.
Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
If people start spot-checking this stuff more regularly, perhaps the companies being verified will take delivering the correct product the first time more seriously. Some of it boils down to a lack of data quality about what they actually have. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mehmet Akcin" To: "James Breeden" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 12:17:42 PM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) That's a great example. Thank you James for sharing. I have done so many "GROUND TRUTH" visits where randomly selected certain physical points to validate physical diversity. Have seen several places where dual risers in the building were present or multiple building entries were available but not used. Ground truth events are certainly important and can be eye opening. It does not necessarily scale as you can't really walk all the fiber A-Z everywhere.. i know. On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 6:49 AM James Breeden < ja...@arenalgroup.co > wrote: I can't stress enough the importance of controlling your own route and even cable diversity. Require KMZs of the routes for any services you take (especially single path Wave type services). Put them in the contracts if you can. I've had at least 1 situation where we had vendor diversity and what was supposed to be route diversity- 3 separate waves coming south and southeast out of a datacenter to 3 separate cities. Imagine my surprise when we took a outage one day that severed all 3 circuits. Yes all 3 circuits, going to 3 separate cities, on 3 separate carrier/s DWDM platforms, all happened to show up in the same sheath of cable at one location that happened to experience backhoe fade. Was not a good day James W. Breeden Managing Partner logo_transparent_background Arenal Group: Arenal Consulting Group | Acilis Telecom | Pines Media PO Box 1063 | Smithville, TX 78957 Email: ja...@arenalgroup.co | office 512.360. | cell 512.304.0745 | www.arenalgroup.co From: NANOG < nanog-boun...@nanog.org > on behalf of Brandon Martin < lists.na...@monmotha.net > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 4:59:44 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) On 12/17/18 3:51 PM, Mehmet Akcin wrote: > > One question, how much people care about vendor diversity? I do and did > care. I don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket. Do you care? Thank you There are advantages and disadvantages to vendor diversity. As advantages, you won't be subject to complete loss of connection because of a single dispute or provisioning/control plane issue with that one vendor. You can also more easily pit vendors against each other for pricing if you are already vendor-diverse. As a disadvantage, not only does vendor diversity obviously not imply route diversity, but it will completely put the onus on you to ensure route diversity if you want it. With a single vendor, you can demand that your circuits have route diversity and, assuming you trust them, they have all the information they need to make that happen for you. -- Brandon Martin
Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
As long as you understand that vendor diversity doesn't imply route diversity. Diversity within a given vendor is still subject to the same chassis, the same automation platform, the same billing department, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mehmet Akcin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Ben Cannon" , "nanog" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 2:51:38 PM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) Back to main discussion How do we choose the best transport? One question, how much people care about vendor diversity? I do and did care. I don’t want to put all my eggs in one basket. Do you care? Thank you Mehmet On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 11:30 Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: I haven't. Sure, but the equipment still does smaller channels. Going to 100G or 400G for just over 10G seems silly. If Equinix had reasonable cross connects, I'd just LAG 10Gs. The cost of a pair of Equinix cross connects isn't much less than the 10G wave. Thankfully I'm only in one datacenter with such a ridiculous model. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Ben Cannon" < b...@6by7.net > To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > Cc: "Luke Guillory" < lguill...@reservetele.com >, "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 1:27:21 PM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) Mike have you looked at Packetlight? Long-haul is mostly jumping to 100 or even 400g coherent. -Ben On Dec 15, 2018, at 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: FS had one, but it's not on their site anymore. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Luke Guillory" < lguill...@reservetele.com > To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > Cc: "Eric Dugas" < edu...@unknowndevice.ca >, "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 10:52:19 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) No cost affective 10x10G to 100G muxponder? Sent from my iPad On Dec 15, 2018, at 4:46 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: heh, cross connects are indeed a major issue. I have a need for > 10G transport. My equipment supports 40G. The carriers aren't terribly interested in doing 40G transport (at least not at a reasonable price, one quote was over 4x a 10G). 100G-capable switches cost too much. Equinix charges as much for a pair of cross connects as a 10G wave. Carriers aren't likely to be interested in using bidi optics or passive WDM to overcome the ridiculous cross connect charges. This all complicates how one chooses transport. There's no easy path forward. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Eric Dugas" < edu...@unknowndevice.ca > To: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > Cc: "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 11:42:53 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) I also look at hand-off locations (as long as it doesn't compromise the overall robustness of the design). Most providers will be able to hand-off in the BMMR of a carrier hotel and some will have the flexibility to hand-off in particular suites within the same building or other locations near where the cross-connects fees are lower. I've seen cross-connect fees between $50 up to $750 MRC so if you need multiple wavelengths (for capacity), the cross-connect fees are going to make a huge difference on the total MRC. Eric Luke Guillory Vice President – Technology and Innovation Tel:985.536.1212 Fax:985.536.0300 Email: lguill...@reservetele.com Web:www.rtconline.com Reserve Telecommunications 100 RTC Dr Reserve, LA 70084 Disclaimer: The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate, distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise
Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
I haven't. Sure, but the equipment still does smaller channels. Going to 100G or 400G for just over 10G seems silly. If Equinix had reasonable cross connects, I'd just LAG 10Gs. The cost of a pair of Equinix cross connects isn't much less than the 10G wave. Thankfully I'm only in one datacenter with such a ridiculous model. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ben Cannon" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Luke Guillory" , "nanog" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 1:27:21 PM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) Mike have you looked at Packetlight? Long-haul is mostly jumping to 100 or even 400g coherent. -Ben On Dec 15, 2018, at 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: FS had one, but it's not on their site anymore. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Luke Guillory" < lguill...@reservetele.com > To: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > Cc: "Eric Dugas" < edu...@unknowndevice.ca >, "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 10:52:19 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) No cost affective 10x10G to 100G muxponder? Sent from my iPad On Dec 15, 2018, at 4:46 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: heh, cross connects are indeed a major issue. I have a need for > 10G transport. My equipment supports 40G. The carriers aren't terribly interested in doing 40G transport (at least not at a reasonable price, one quote was over 4x a 10G). 100G-capable switches cost too much. Equinix charges as much for a pair of cross connects as a 10G wave. Carriers aren't likely to be interested in using bidi optics or passive WDM to overcome the ridiculous cross connect charges. This all complicates how one chooses transport. There's no easy path forward. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Eric Dugas" < edu...@unknowndevice.ca > To: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > Cc: "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 11:42:53 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) I also look at hand-off locations (as long as it doesn't compromise the overall robustness of the design). Most providers will be able to hand-off in the BMMR of a carrier hotel and some will have the flexibility to hand-off in particular suites within the same building or other locations near where the cross-connects fees are lower. I've seen cross-connect fees between $50 up to $750 MRC so if you need multiple wavelengths (for capacity), the cross-connect fees are going to make a huge difference on the total MRC. Eric Luke Guillory Vice President – Technology and Innovation Tel:985.536.1212 Fax:985.536.0300 Email: lguill...@reservetele.com Web:www.rtconline.com Reserve Telecommunications 100 RTC Dr Reserve, LA 70084 Disclaimer: The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate, distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. On Dec 14 2018, at 12:17 pm, Mehmet Akcin < meh...@akcin.net > wrote: Thank you everyone incredible amounts of responses for my how to choose a transit provider smail earlier. How do you choose transport & backbone? Looking at key aspects like route information, diversity, aerial vs under ground fiber, age of fiber, outage history, length, but what else? I will get both transport and transit as two seperate blogs. I will also submit as a nanog paper for the meeting after next, or maybe next? I am probably too late by now. Thank you for all your help. I will add your names to the thank you line ;-) -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Re: How to choose a transit provider?
Of course YMMV. I'm speaking from the perspective of ISPs between say 300 and 10k customers. I'm knee deep in that community. I'm also generally speaking of facilities that don't have astronomical cross connect charges (so not Equinix, DRT, etc.). In some places, the cross connect cost is nominal, so we just cover it in the IX fee. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: nanog-...@mail.com To: nanog@nanog.org Cc: "Mike Hammett" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:37:28 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transit provider? Mike Hammett wrote: > Usually, DIA (as transit delivered to a customer) is more expensive than > transport + transit + small colo > (1U\2U stuff) + IX... at least as observed by many of my brethren. Is this really true in the general case? Adding colo and IX to transport and transit involves at least one additional cross connect and an IX port fee. This is likely to push the total above the pure DIA price. However, regardless of how the numbers pencil out, this isn't really a fair comparison. For small ISPs, the yardstick against which adding an IX to the mix is usually measured against is the marginal cost of IP transit. Given that the cost of transport is fixed, is it more economical to buy more IP transit or to join an IX? Transit being so cheap means that joining an IX isn't always so enticing from a financial perspective, although there are other non-monetary benefits. I certainly subscribe to the notion that transport + transit is usually less expensive than DIA, but this does depend on the market and location. Jared
Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
FS had one, but it's not on their site anymore. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Luke Guillory" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Eric Dugas" , "nanog" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 10:52:19 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) No cost affective 10x10G to 100G muxponder? Sent from my iPad On Dec 15, 2018, at 4:46 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: heh, cross connects are indeed a major issue. I have a need for > 10G transport. My equipment supports 40G. The carriers aren't terribly interested in doing 40G transport (at least not at a reasonable price, one quote was over 4x a 10G). 100G-capable switches cost too much. Equinix charges as much for a pair of cross connects as a 10G wave. Carriers aren't likely to be interested in using bidi optics or passive WDM to overcome the ridiculous cross connect charges. This all complicates how one chooses transport. There's no easy path forward. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Eric Dugas" < edu...@unknowndevice.ca > To: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > Cc: "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 11:42:53 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) I also look at hand-off locations (as long as it doesn't compromise the overall robustness of the design). Most providers will be able to hand-off in the BMMR of a carrier hotel and some will have the flexibility to hand-off in particular suites within the same building or other locations near where the cross-connects fees are lower. I've seen cross-connect fees between $50 up to $750 MRC so if you need multiple wavelengths (for capacity), the cross-connect fees are going to make a huge difference on the total MRC. Eric Luke Guillory Vice President – Technology and Innovation Tel:985.536.1212 Fax:985.536.0300 Email: lguill...@reservetele.com Web:www.rtconline.com Reserve Telecommunications 100 RTC Dr Reserve, LA 70084 Disclaimer: The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate, distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. On Dec 14 2018, at 12:17 pm, Mehmet Akcin < meh...@akcin.net > wrote: Thank you everyone incredible amounts of responses for my how to choose a transit provider smail earlier. How do you choose transport & backbone? Looking at key aspects like route information, diversity, aerial vs under ground fiber, age of fiber, outage history, length, but what else? I will get both transport and transit as two seperate blogs. I will also submit as a nanog paper for the meeting after next, or maybe next? I am probably too late by now. Thank you for all your help. I will add your names to the thank you line ;-) -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Re: How to choose a transit provider?
The type of customer on the network is important here. Most traffic on residential eyeball networks goes to IXes. I know guys pushing 85% of their traffic to IXes. Even small IXes like ours are capturing well over 50% of an ISP's traffic. Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare. That's what, 2/3rds of the traffic an eyeball has? Now if you're not predominately serving residential customers, then I agree and briefly stated so before. Flow monitoring is indeed important. Usually, DIA (as transit delivered to a customer) is more expensive than transport + transit + small colo (1U\2U stuff) + IX... at least as observed by many of my brethren. That's before you get to the fact that a lot of transit is sub-optimal. Most ISPs we've hooked to our IXes have seen an immediate increase in network utilization because upstream congestion and whatever latency is gone. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Matt Erculiani" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "Mehmet Akcin" , "nanog@nanog.org list" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 9:49:21 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transit provider? I would actually venture to say the contrary. An IX should be the last item on your list since it only really makes sense at a certain scale and if you can make use of the providers on it. Most of the networks you'll have trouble getting to via transit providers are that way because of how they do business, which also means hardly any of them peer at IXes. I'd say a network should have a least 3 good transits before considering an IX. Even then it's not so black and white. If after your first transit provider is installed and you set up your flow monitoring, you notice most of your traiffic is going to/coming from ASNs that peer on your local exchanges, then it absolutely makes sense to open a connection right then. IX links aren't a whole lot cheaper than transit (sometimes they cost more depending on how hard it is to get to them) and many networks will benefit from a more diverse blend of transits than IX peering regardless of what they're doing. IXes are extremely important to the internet at large, but they're not for everyone. -Matt On Dec 15, 2018 10:27, "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: I think it'll depend on your target customer. Residential eyeball? Being on an IX is more important at nearly any size than which transit you choose. Even a good-sized residential eyeball (say 10k and up subs) can be good with Cogent\IX\one other transit. Hosting and enterprise-focused ISPs will need to diversify their transit providers more. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > To: "nanog" < nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 9:21:59 AM Subject: How to choose a transit provider? Hello there, I have started writing a blog which I hope it would help buy transit services from providers by doing various due diligences(technical) i wanted to reach out and ask nanog community’s thoughts on this. What are some of your checklist items ? Price? Their directly peered networks? If they are tier 2,3 who they use as tier 1-2? Are the onnet? I am sure list goes on and on on... Thanks a lot for your help. I plan to write the blog this month and publish. Mehmet -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Re: How to choose a transit provider?
I think it'll depend on your target customer. Residential eyeball? Being on an IX is more important at nearly any size than which transit you choose. Even a good-sized residential eyeball (say 10k and up subs) can be good with Cogent\IX\one other transit. Hosting and enterprise-focused ISPs will need to diversify their transit providers more. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mehmet Akcin" To: "nanog" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 9:21:59 AM Subject: How to choose a transit provider? Hello there, I have started writing a blog which I hope it would help buy transit services from providers by doing various due diligences(technical) i wanted to reach out and ask nanog community’s thoughts on this. What are some of your checklist items ? Price? Their directly peered networks? If they are tier 2,3 who they use as tier 1-2? Are the onnet? I am sure list goes on and on on... Thanks a lot for your help. I plan to write the blog this month and publish. Mehmet -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
heh, cross connects are indeed a major issue. I have a need for > 10G transport. My equipment supports 40G. The carriers aren't terribly interested in doing 40G transport (at least not at a reasonable price, one quote was over 4x a 10G). 100G-capable switches cost too much. Equinix charges as much for a pair of cross connects as a 10G wave. Carriers aren't likely to be interested in using bidi optics or passive WDM to overcome the ridiculous cross connect charges. This all complicates how one chooses transport. There's no easy path forward. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Eric Dugas" To: "Mehmet Akcin" Cc: "nanog" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 11:42:53 AM Subject: Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea) I also look at hand-off locations (as long as it doesn't compromise the overall robustness of the design). Most providers will be able to hand-off in the BMMR of a carrier hotel and some will have the flexibility to hand-off in particular suites within the same building or other locations near where the cross-connects fees are lower. I've seen cross-connect fees between $50 up to $750 MRC so if you need multiple wavelengths (for capacity), the cross-connect fees are going to make a huge difference on the total MRC. Eric On Dec 14 2018, at 12:17 pm, Mehmet Akcin wrote: Thank you everyone incredible amounts of responses for my how to choose a transit provider smail earlier. How do you choose transport & backbone? Looking at key aspects like route information, diversity, aerial vs under ground fiber, age of fiber, outage history, length, but what else? I will get both transport and transit as two seperate blogs. I will also submit as a nanog paper for the meeting after next, or maybe next? I am probably too late by now. Thank you for all your help. I will add your names to the thank you line ;-) -- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
