Hi Tom,
I tend to agree with same that annotations are most likely to be localised
and the need for language translations will be minimal, hence the need to
support annotations with a code is overkill and too complex for the 90% of
use cases.
The only use case I have seen that would utilise
...
/view
Regards
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
From: openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Beale
Sent: Thursday, 30 December 2010 10:40 AM
To: openehr-technical at openehr.org
I too are concerned, as you know Isolated 21090 is being balloted now, how
should we recommend our member countries vote given this new viewpoint?
Should we at least be requesting a name change?
What form would the new spec take, another standard or a profile?
Heath
-Original
It would also seem that the SVN is also down, or at least very, very, very,
very slow.
Heath
From: openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Diego Bosc?
Sent: Monday, 22 November 2010 9:22 PM
To: For openEHR technical discussions
Hi Erik,
Interestingly, this is the same proposal I put to Thomas about 8 years ago
and I go the same response. I do understand his rationale for making a
table a class rather than an attribute with additional conformance
statements to ensure a table is represented consistently, but we know how
Hi Erik,
I am still catching up from some time-off, interesting discussion seem to
happen while I am away...
I will start with my comments at the start and likely to respond to later
responses.
Heath
Some of the interesting bits I've picked up so far from discussions:
- Maybe it would be a
Hi Erik
1. Will the XML schema get updated to make sure patient data instances
carry along the archetype/template inheritance in a good way?
[HKF: ] I have spoken with Tom on this topic considerable, we are looking at
extending the ARCHETYPED class to support a list of archetype_ids (similar
to
for better ways.
Heath Frankel
Ocean Informatics
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-
bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Grahame Grieve
Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2010 5:21 AM
To: OpenEHR technical discussions
Subject: Re: ISO
As an ISO standard, I believe that it should be an intersection of
all the
input specifications, rather than a union
extension has it's own difficulties, as does union. We were aware of
the
berlin decision, but ISO 21090 resulted from a deliberate decision
to do something different. Was
out of the box?
intersection, or union?
Union at least has everything
Grahame
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Heath Frankel
heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com wrote:
As ...
[HKF: ] Obviously this deliberate decision was made without the parties
that
were in Berlin who ...
openEHR
Hi Bert,
Assumed value is different to default value (see the AOM spec for definition
of assumed value, default value is further defined in the new 1.5 AOM spec).
If an element has a assumed value defined and its value is not present, the
assumed value should not be used in the data, it remains
The Canonical MD5 hash generated by the archetype editor is based on the
definition and ontology attributes of the AOM, therefore the concept is not
considered.
Heath
From: openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Sebastian Garde
Sorry, I was wrong, only the description element is removed from the
Canonical Archetype Model Digest, the concept is included and so is the
adl_version as indicated by Peter.
Heath
From: Heath Frankel [mailto:heath.fran...@oceaninformatics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 July 2010 10:41 AM
Thomas,
the above kind of thing happens (to my knowledge at least) only when
multiple instances of a given node defined in a system of archetypes and
templates, are created at runtime. These are then only distinguishable by
name or some other attribute. The current rule in openEHR is that the
Erik Thomas,
I had the same question a while back for the same use case. I could not
find anything in the specifications/models that indicates that contributions
are restricted to a single EHR, as Erik says contributions can be associated
with any VERSION OBJECT_REFs. I think this topic needs
Masourmeh,
There is no generics in XML Schema, hence you cannot define a single type
for all intervals. The XSD does what compilers that support generics do and
creates a real type for each type of T that is used with the generic type.
It should also be noted that these IntervalOf* types are
.
What Java Parser are you using? Are you sure that the parser is not
producing a DvDate object that represents the value attribute of the
ELEMENT, which itself has a value attribute which has a constrained string
representation of a partial date?
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
corner to see the
underlying XML.
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com
+61 (0) 8 7127 5574
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-
bounces
Message-
From: Heath Frankel [mailto:heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com]
Sent: Monday, 16 November 2009 10:45 AM
To: 'For openEHR technical discussions'
Subject: RE: xml-instance of archetypes
Hi Karl,
Have a look at
http://southern.oceanehr.com/Ehrview15/?ehruri=ehr://6421a888-e1cb
Hi Soheil,
An EHR repository requires a service interface which is yet to be defined by
openEHR. Some of the classes such as EHR, Contribution and
VERSIONED_COMPOSITION are not classes used for containment purposes, they
are intended to be used as part of a service interface. This is why the
not sure if CKM supports XML output of archetypes as yet but if it is
felt that not having archetypes available in XML is holding back openEHR
adoption then I am sure this can be put on the change request list for
prioritisation.
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
Product Development
Hi David,
We need to differentiate the AOM from ADL, just because the AOM makes
cardinality optional doesn?t mean that ADL does not require a cardinality
keyword. Remember that ADL is just a serialisation of the AOM just as the
AOM can be serialised using XML.
On a related topic, I think
Tom and Sam,
Page 11:
Current text:
Archetypes based on different classes from the same information model
to
have the
same name, e.g. An archetype for 'vital signs' headings based on the
SECTION
class, and
a 'vital signs' archetype based on OBSERVATION.
Comment:
I believe there
Hmm, interesting idea.
H
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-
bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Peter Gummer
Sent: Wednesday, 10 June 2009 5:50 PM
To: For openEHR technical discussions
Subject: Re: Archetyping links
Rong
Hi Rong,
Ocean certainly has runtime support for LINKs. The Ocean Archetype Editor
used to (and perhaps it is still there) have an initial implementation of
constraining LINKs but it became unclear if this was viable, useful or
appropriate. We tend to now think it is a template constrain if
to the openEHR wiki as soon as I can get Thomas to create me a
page.
Regards
Heath
-Original Message-
From: Tim Cook [mailto:timothywayne.cook at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 7:08 PM
To: Heath Frankel
Cc: 'For openEHR technical discussions'
Subject: RE: [Fwd: [JIRA] Created
Hi Koray,
I will let others respond about translations etc, but I did want to pick up
on your point about multi-part file. This was an option recently consider
when we were looking at a mechanism to record an MD5 Hash of the archetype.
There was a desire to provide this hash external to the ADL
Hi Bert,
Yes I agree, it should be
xs:complexType name=DV_AMOUNT abstract=true
...
Heath
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-
bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Bert Verhees
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2009 7:00 PM
To:
Hi Tom,
Would this be a template on the EHR_EXTRACT?
Heath
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-
bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Beale
Sent: Sunday, 5 April 2009 6:50 PM
To: For openEHR technical discussions
William,
When you say browsing existing archetypes from Ocean, where exactly are
you browsing?
Heath
From: openehr-clinical-boun...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-clinical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of
Williamtfgoossen at cs.com
Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2009 12:59 AM
To:
Bert,
The Ocean Archetype Editor was the first Archetype Editor written some 6+
years ago. It was implemented to support only EHR archetypes in a way that
these RM types where implemented explicitly within the Editor providing the
specific capability for clinicians to easily develop archetypes
Hi Erik,
Response to 2, the Ocean EhrGate Web Service provides a ResultSet as defined
in the following WSDAL fragment:
xs:complexType name=ResultSet
xs:sequence
xs:element minOccurs=0 name=name type=xs:string /
xs:element name=totalResults type=xs:int /
Sorry, I didn't realise when I responded to this that it was such an old
post (having email management problems). Anyway, it seems to be current hot
topic so it probably won't go to waste.
Heath
-Original Message-
From: Heath Frankel [mailto:heath.fran...@oceaninformatics.com]
Sent
and my preference for option 2.
Are there anyone from the regions that use the comma representation of
decimal points that feel that option 1 is necessary?
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
Ground Floor, 64 Hindmarsh Square
Adelaide, SA
Andrew,
There was a decision by Heath (and others at Ocean) to have a
single namespace for all the openehr XML classes around the time of the
1.0 release. The schemaLocation of XSD files is a separate issue and one
that I would not worry about - assume that all XSD files bundled
together in
Thomas,
The original namespace was designed in a way that would not require a change
until there was a radical RM (or schema design) change.
I would suggest that the principles are similar to archetype versions and
revisions, the namespace will require a change when the schema change breaks
This was the exact approach that was proposed in work within Standards
Australia to represent Archetyped data in HL7 v2. The at-codes defined in
the ontology section of the archetype was used in a coded element concept ID
and the archetype ID was used as the coding system (compared with local
technical discussions
Cc: Heath Frankel; hugh.grady at oceaninformatics.com
Subject: Re: text and description
Hi!
I know that there are suggestions for defining terminology
queries/subset-selections using URIs. We discussed this a bit in a
conference paper that was selected for republication
Adam,
As previously requested, provide us an example (one will do) of an archetype
failing, we can then work out why.
Heath
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-
bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Adam Flinton
Sent: Monday, 10
generated from schema can catch errors like this, thoughts?
Cheers,
Rong
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Heath Frankel
heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com wrote:
Hi Adam,
Can you provide details of the offending archetype?
Looking at the AOM, the originalAuthor is a required attribute
Hi Olof,
Ocean currently does what you are intending to do here but we do not use the
.OET file. As mentioned by others, the .OET only represents the references
to archetypes and the additional constraint rules to apply to those
archetypes. To utilise this for anything of use you need to
Hi Adam,
Can you provide details of the offending archetype?
Looking at the AOM, the originalAuthor is a required attribute and this is
reflected in the Resource.xsd. However apart from the list being non-empty,
I see no other invariant to that states that the value of the originalAuthor
item
Hi Greg,
If I understand your requirement correctly the following is the correct AQL
(take note of the RM class capitalisation):
Select pupils
From EHR e CONTAINS COMPOSITION anyComposition CONTAINS OBSERVATION
pupils[openEHR-EHR-OBSERVATION.pupils.v1]
Where
Hi Tim,
It is great to here that you are taking AQL seriously and plan to write a
python implementation, your feedback I am sure will be invaluable.
We have not done a lot of work on queries for some time but have recently
been doing some work related to projects and have started to think about
Hi All,
This extension idea is used in XForms in a similar manner. In fact this
extension mechanism is actually something that I played with 18 months ago
to represent AOM constraints of data associated with each form control
expressed in XForms. I shelved this approach due to the complexity of
Hi Thilo,
It is interesting you have talked about the idea of scaffolding a GUI. This
is exactly the work Ocean is doing at present. We have redeveloped our Web
Forms engine to work based on this principle. From a template developed
using the Ocean template Designer, we now generate a Form
at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Peter Gummer
Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:14 AM
To: For openEHR technical discussions
Subject: Re: openEHR Querying specifications
Heath Frankel wrote:
[openEHR-EHR-COMPOSITION.encounter.v1*] (or perhaps more correctly
[openEHR-EHR-COMPOSITION.encounter.v1
Versions should be handled using the regular expression syntax of the
archetype ID, as is done in ADL to represent slot constraints and
action_arcehtype_id in ACTIVITY.
E.g. [openEHR-EHR-COMPOSITION.encounter.v1*]
BTW, using the OR operator you could have had
...
CONTAINS COMPOSITION
, 2008-06-02 at 17:16 +0930, Heath Frankel wrote:
Labels only work on pages, not on attachments. Are we looking at a
page per paper or page per conference? If the former then this
suggest could work, but I don't think is as good as an index, however
much
more automated.
My full thoughts
Rong,
The only limit on attachments I have found is the default maximum number of
attachments per page, however this is configurable (not sure if there is any
limits to the configuration).
Heath
From: openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org]
Bert,
I think you might be on the right track with your pathed values, it is very
similar to an approach that Tom and I discussed as a more efficient XML
representation of openEHR data. However, I think you are going to have to
keep in mind the complexity of the openEHR Data types, values will
(as most companies do). Preliminary
implementation experiments could be started right away and
updated+launched when the real specification is finished.
Best regards,
Erik Sundvall
erisu at imt.liu.se http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/ Tel: +46-13-227579
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:46 AM, Heath Frankel
Adam,
If binary standards have dried up then why is W3C producing the Efficient
XML Interchange http://www.w3.org/XML/EXI/? There is also ISO standard
based on ASN.1 (http://asn1.elibel.tm.fr/xml/finf.htm) that also produces a
binary encoding of XML. Perhaps there is a need to reduce XML
Adam,
Indeed however there are ways of persisting a model they require at
the end of the day a recognizable document design/format.
I have already noted how using text children of an element to use a
value vs a std value attribute in the archetype xml inflates the file
sizes.
A
An archetype not based on a reference model is impossible (or at least
pointless).
Erik Sundvall
Erik,
I love this comment, it should be put up on the openEHR Web Site as the
Play of the Day.
So many times I see people trying to use Archetypes without a RM, or even
worse using openEHR
of templates where individual RM
attributes can be turned on or off, right down to the data type attributes
if needed. We are also looking at alternate visualisation of archetypes for
the next iteration of the Ocean Archetype Editor.
Regards
?
Heath
?
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean
of what it looks like.
It is quite a simple course-grained API and relies heavily on AQL (formerly
known as EQL) and openEHR RM (as you would expect) to provide its
capability.
Regards
?
Heath
?
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
-Original Message-
From
Bert,
Well why don't you start a blog on the openEHR WIKI (confluence uses the
term News for a Blog article) about your experience as a starting point
rather than waiting for someone else to start it. It does not need to be
anything too in depth initially just to test the interest. Others might
Adam Lisa,
There is a very specific rationale and it is consistent. The XML Schema is
a direct serialisation of the UML openEHR reference models. Every class is
an XML schema type and every attribute is an element except for
archetype_node_id as it is a metadata attribute. So in the case of
No XML Schema changes required, in fact the schema already indicates that
the string data should have space preserved as per the W3C references
provided by Adam. The problem is that because the schema specifies
something is a string type it is not required to be specified in the XML
document and
place in an XML based environment
at the client side.
[Heath Frankel]
No reason why you couldn't use schematron as far as I can see. We choose to
use the kernel.
Heath
Were HL7 messages exist and are working, we will continue to consume them
using the TDS intermediate form. As stated previously, the TDS is not
intended for information exchange, but as a tool for integration.
Heath
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org
...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Rong Chen
Sent: Monday, 26 November 2007 1:38 AM
To: For openEHR technical discussions
Subject: Re: Compact XML format...?
On Nov 25, 2007 10:09 PM, Heath Frankel heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com
wrote:
Hi Erik,
I
To: For openEHR technical discussions
Subject: Re: Compact XML format...?
On Sat, 2007-11-24 at 08:47 +, Heath Frankel wrote:
Think of it as standard mechanism for data transformation rather
than a standard data exchange, where the semantics of the archetypes
are maintained at each
tailored to the
specific use case.
[Heath Frankel]
As you know, a template is the knowledge artefact designed for a particular
use case, the TDS is a technical artefact to support the implementation of
that use case.
To validate clinically both were dependent on other artifacts (HL7
Templates
There is only one openEHR implementation, the template data schemas are just
a tool to transform data from other formats into and out of the openEHR
reference model using the semantics of the clinical archetypes models. The
TDS are not intended to replace openEHR, but enable it for those that are
,
is that there is a single transformation from any of these template-based
XML schemas into openEHR. We are refining the rules for generating these
schemas and the openEHR transformation and will share it with the openEHR
community soon.
Regards
?
Heath
?
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
those type of anomolies
(or perhaps not anonomolies, just my misunderstanding of the
definition).
thanks!
Greg
http://www.patientos.org
On 11/7/07, Heath Frankel heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com wrote:
Greg and others,
We have configured an auto-build process to convert the ADL
through the
EHR Server to ensure that the semantics and security of the content is
maintained. This is a deterrent to traditional application developers
bypassing these important EHR requirements.
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
Ground Floor
Chunlan for an example of your baddest archetype, one that involves
some hierarchy and that would challenge a persistence layer. If one comes to
mind, let me know.
Thanks again,
Randolph
On 11/6/07, Heath Frankel heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com wrote:
Randolph,
As openEHR has
Greg,
I agree with Tim, that you can't always expect Ocean to provide these tools.
We just happen to be one of the main contributors to the openEHR foundation.
As Tim said, the openEHR specs are the normative artefacts including the XML
schemas provided at
Greg,
Very interesting question, there is actually working being done within
Standards Australia to determine how to represent archetyped content in HL7
V2. This work is not yet complete, but your suggestion is one of the
options except the [at] is not required as all archetype root nodes
-Original Message-
From: Heath Frankel [mailto:heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 November 2007 11:06 AM
To: 'For openEHR technical discussions'
Subject: RE: XML versions of the ADL
Greg,
I agree with Tim, that you can't always expect Ocean to provide these
tools
to my equivalent item.
Of course that would break if a new data element was added in a
position (fabricated)
data[at0001]/events[at0099]/data[at00100]/items[at0004]/value but the
simplicity is tempting.
thanks
Greg
http;//www.patientos.org
On 11/5/07, Heath Frankel heath.frankel
systems may support only a small subset of AQL queries
where they have provided an AQL to native query mapping. The point is, AQL
is independent of the implementation and are sharable, semantic queries
based on shared archetypes.
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Server using Web Services.
Regards
?
Heath
?
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
Ground Floor, 64 Hindmarsh Square
Adelaide, SA, 5000
Australia
?
ph:?+61 (0)8 8223 3075
mb: +61 (0)412 030 741
email:?heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com
-Original Message-
From
Randolph,
As openEHR has no specification for a persistence model, there is no such
thing as a conformant DB schema. At Ocean we have developed a DB schema
that is still evolving but this is transparent to any application as the API
is based on the openEHR Information Model. We may explore
the Ocean tools.
Regards
?
Heath
?
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
Ground Floor, 64 Hindmarsh Square
Adelaide, SA, 5000
Australia
?
ph:?+61 (0)8 8223 3075
mb: +61 (0)412 030 741
email:?heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com
-Original Message-
From: openehr
and validation of RM objects
that conform to the template.
Hope this helps keep you up to date with progress in this area. If you have
interest in this area from the technical perspective I suggest that we
progress this further in a collaborative manner.
Regards
Heath
Heath
David,
FYI, There are forthcoming recommendations on including binary data in XML
without using base-64. I expect that these would be used when available in
implementation.
Heath
_
From: openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf
Sam,
It is only safe if the attributes are primitive types. However I think it
would be a good saving considering the current attributes.
Heath
_
From: openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org
[mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Sam Heard
Sent: Tuesday, 21
Mattias,
You don't seem to follow the AOM when generating your XML instances. For
example, the C_MULTIPLE_ATTRIBUTE class has a property of 'members' which is
a list of C_OBJECT. This property name should be used in the XML instance
so you would get:
attributes xsi:type=at:C_MULTIPLE
element
name from? I can't find it neither in the XML schema nor the AOM.
Regards,
Mattias
2006/11/17, Heath Frankel heath.frankel at frankelinformatics.com:
Mattias,
You don't seem to follow the AOM when generating your XML instances. For
example, the C_MULTIPLE_ATTRIBUTE class has
ranges
Heath Frankel wrote:
Rodrigo,
I am jumping in late in the
The DV_QUANTITY (or technically the DV_ORDERED abstract class) data
type represents the reference range specified by the lab using the the
normal_range relationship. There is also other_reference_ranges to
represent all
clinical scenario (mega
storyboard) and mapping the data element and sample data into archetypes. I
wonder of you would be interested in working with her or at least sharing
your experiences and current process?
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
Ground Floor
? How can we initiate and progress this kind of activity and
investigation?
Regards
Heath
Heath Frankel
Product Development Manager
Ocean Informatics
Ground Floor, 64 Hindmarsh Square
Adelaide, SA, 5000
Australia
ph: +61 (0)8 8223 3075
fax: +61 (0)8 8223 2570
mb: +61 (0)412 030 741
email
for raising CEN/TC251 -
interesting.
Regards,
Andre Duszynski.
---
Heath Frankel wrote:
Gerard,
Interesting you raise this topic as it is becoming an interest of mine
to start investigating the use of openEHR instructions to support the
documentation requirements of clinical
Actually I suggested Import_Commit_Audit not Local_Commit_Audit.
Heath
_
From: owner-openehr-techni...@openehr.org
[mailto:owner-openehr-technical at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Sam Heard
Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2006 3:55 PM
To: Openehr-Technical
Subject: Version and commit
Dear All
Tom,
My only comments is related to the resulting XML schema. Any reason we
couldn't simplify the XML further to the following:
name xsi:type=DV_CODED_TEXT
valueclinical finding/value
defining_codeSNOMED-CT::404684003/defining_code
/name
Having data enclosed
Andrew,
I thought that the archetype approach was certainly extension. In fact
there examples of such. Refer to Adverse-Reaction and
Adverse-Reaction-Medication. I am also sure it supports restriction, the
same example also supports this. Unlike some people, I believe that
restriction is a
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