) before continuing.
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the
philistines.
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.
Is this argument too subtle? Anyway, it's all I have to say on this:
please think carefully about how we're going to define success.
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Fishworks Excellent; we can attack in any direction
on technology that WORKS
now.
I don't share your vision, but I'm sure many people do, so I'm glad
that you've described it for us. Thank you.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
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can we please end this thread?
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OpenSolaris Developer Preview,
OpenSolaris binary distribution, or any other name implying
exclusive endorsement of the OpenSolaris Community.
I'm happy with this amendment; I'd played with this language myself
but it felt too cumbersome.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're
, but after the past few days I wouldn't mind spending a day
getting work done.
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.
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, but if we're assigned a
power there has to be some way for us to defend it. What form that
defense might take is not yet clear, but we're not ignoring the issue
and at least one of us agrees that what's happening is not likely in
the interests of the OpenSolaris Community.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
.
[0] http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/001622.html
http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/001740.html
[1] http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/001712.html
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Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks
for -help was,
iirc, to answer questions like Why did my build fail? and Where is
the source for foo?
As for opensolaris-discuss, I don't really care. Noise from newbies
is the least of that list's problems. I always recommend
unsubscribing from it but I guess people are masochists.
--
Keith M
provisions to give them comparable
advantages where practical.
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,
especially if whatever they want to do can't be considered part of the
cost of running their own business.
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suppose, kill this thread and go
write code ourselves. Maybe that's too radical a way to get work
done, though.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks Excellent; we can attack in any direction
. It in this case being a professionally designed logo or
cartoon'd mascot.
Sounds like something to work out within the Advocacy CG. I'm sorry
that we can't help you, but we're just not structured in a way that
facilitates this type of activity.
--
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for making the choices they made.
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a Group (preferably a relevant one) that wants to create your
mailing list. That's really all there is to it. Creating new mail
aliases like distro-discuss that squat on the namespace is naughty,
though; the name should be a part of the sponsoring Group's namespace.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
isn't, in fact, worth doing? As an OGB member, I don't
have the time to do all that, and as someone who wants to just get
things done, you surely don't want to wait on a 6-month-long OGB
docket. That's why we leave things to the Groups to do pretty much as
they please.
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, but I don't remember seeing that the
constitution and/or process was approved.
The Constitution was approved by the Membership in a formal poll in
March, and those results were announced widely.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks
infrastructure for the project would have to be created (or
otherwise obtained by) the Group. Why a Group would want to invest
that effort just to spite us is beyond me, but as you say, we can't
tell them what to do.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks
consolidations ought to be
represented in our Constitutional framework, please start a new thread
on ogb-discuss and we can start to work through that.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks Excellent; we can attack in any direction
this project with process? Sorry, it's just not true.
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how things ought to work. That's around the time I'd think it
reasonable to start contemplating the whole question of whether your
thing should be a reference distribution or not.
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, it's not as bad as that, because this
statement does not actually seem to bear on the proposed work itself.
The proposal would not suffer by its removal.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks Excellent; we can attack in any direction
On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 04:24:40PM -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
Keith M Wesolowski wrote:
The process requires that this be sent to one or more community groups
for sponsorship consideration - have you sent it to the Distributions
and Packaging Group? The Constitution and OGB/2007/001
On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 06:57:32PM -0500, Eric Boutilier wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007, Keith M Wesolowski wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 10:41:52AM +1200, Glynn Foster wrote:
The process requires that this be sent to one or more community groups
for sponsorship consideration...
I don't
. The OGB can only hear an appeal when a dispute
arises.
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-discuss/2007-April/000425.html
See item (1) on the agenda; it lists the people who approved the
policy and the terms under which the approval was made.
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Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
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description of one's project goals
is a trivial requirement. Anyone who can't do that can't possibly
succeed anyway, so why should anyone invest even 10ns in reading about
the project or helping it get hosting?
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks
offer much-needed
clarity to what has unfortunately become a confusing situation for
many.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
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. A track record of failure in certain types of
projects might lead the OGB to alter some processes later, but direct
involvement should not otherwise be needed.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks Excellent; we can attack in any direction
. It will
also record the status of the initial list of Core Contributors.
From this time onward, the Group has all the privileges and
responsibilities defined by the Constitution; it is a peer of
preexisting Groups.
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.
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are not using them
alone, since they do not describe who is responsible for making any
decision that might reasonably lead to such a conflict. Except,
perhaps, a metaconflict such as this one.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks Excellent; we
of resolving these issues
and/or the depth of thought given to them by the individuals concerned
will be conducive to solutions superior to those the Working Group
might have developed.
--
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rather than punitive reasons.
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purpose. And it's also a bug in SMA. Please file one at
bugs.opensolaris.org.
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with Community failure is one of the
deeper challenges facing the new OGB. Community leaders are advised
to put their houses in order sooner rather than later, and to seek
dissolution if adequate leadership cannot be found or a sensible
definition of scope cannot be agreed upon.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
than not that the Xen Community would
not retain that status following a thorough review by the next OGB, so
there is little incentive for anyone to defer cleaning this up.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
FishWorks Excellent; we can attack in any
and the
rulemaking areas into which the OGB chooses to wade.
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; my mistake. Normally the 'bounce' function will do the
job you want.
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difficult to trust that person/machine, at least you reduce the
problem from trusting N entities to trusting 1 (or some small number
of cooperating but mutually suspicious individuals).
--
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?
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. There are a lot
of tough technical challenges between where we are and where we want
to be, and I'd like to see a collaborative effort to get past them.
That's why this project exists. If you'd like to help, feel free to
join the newly-created companion-discuss mailing list.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
I'd like to propose a project similar to SFW Nevada for
the forthcoming opening of the collection previously
known as the Solaris Software Companion. This body
of software consists of Free and Open Source software
not supported by Sun; it installs into /opt/sfw and is
delivered with Solaris 10
the regular and familiar Solaris install/upgrade facility. See
http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/, about halfway down the
page, for a link to SXCR.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any direction
of integrating into ON (or, specifically,
dodging ON code-quality rules).
The Companion would not be an appropriate target for any software on
which any consolidation may have dependencies. Based on your outline
of this project, you should not deliver to the Companion.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
certain ON assumptions rather than ABI or
standards conformance.
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remotely
will be disrupted by the replacement of libraries, etc., causing you
to lose your connection and probably leaving the system in an
inconsistent state. It's best to BFU only on the console rather than
remotely or in an xterm.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded
builds.
- S10U1 - Advantages: Fully supported, has been through a full QA
workup. Disadvantages: can't be used to build OpenSolaris source,
doesn't contain ZFS at all.
- Other OpenSolaris-based distributions: Consult vendors for available
features and support options.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
a faster build machine than spending the time it will take to
make this work well.
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, 't')
*p2 = 'u';
Yes, there are a number of standard library and system functions which
could or should have their return types const-qualified but don't.
Historical and conformance reasons, of course, but it makes
-Wwrite-strings and similar options rather useless.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 04:14:41AM +0100, Roland Mainz wrote:
sub-zones (e.g. zones within zones)) and AFAIK Sun
Studio/Forte/Workshop needs to be installed in each zone seperately).
Not true at all. You can access it via NFS, or you can use a lofs
mount from the global zone.
--
Keith M
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 09:29:35AM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Doesn't gcc -fwritable-strings work?
Yes, in gcc 3. However it issues a warning about deprecation, and in
gcc 4 the option is gone entirely.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team
to do, and what happens when those leaders
are unresponsive to the needs and desires of their communities are
important topics for discussion in the context of the Constitution.
Your input would be welcome on cab-discuss.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team
(there are over 500 of them) to see where we've already found
bugs of this type. I believe the printing system (cmd/lp) in
particular is actually using -fwritable-strings in a few places still,
so it would definitely break with -xstrconst.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris
before
you have reached.
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functions can be replaced with their builtins
for a win, but on the whole, inlining large functions turns out to be
a loss. The wasted I-cache far exceeds the gain from call overhead.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack
. Unfortunately there's no
-fno-builtin -fbuiltin-function. See the gcc texinfo documentation,
the section on C Dialect Options. Note that there are literally
hundreds of these functions, many of which are quite complex and
almost certainly too fat to inline, at least in the kernel.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
the specific problems you observe. Incorrect blanket
assumptions like GNU software + OpenSolaris is 'unstable' may
mislead others and do not help to resolve the actual bugs.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any
- saying it's their problem is
leaving them out in the cold.
We're not the ones saying it's their problem. It's the law that
makes licensees solely responsible for compliance. If you want a more
open-source-developer friendly legal system, write your Congressman or
equivalent.
--
Keith M
label. :-)
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purpose installation utility for administrators
or end users; it is for ON developers. If you're not testing modified
or bleeding-edge ON bits on the machine (and clearly you're not if you
want something that will Just Work for a year), you should not be
using BFU on it.
--
Keith M Wesolowski
in ON code. We found many instances like this when porting to gcc.
If you think you've found such a bug, please file it! It's much
better to fix it now than to find it later after distributors have
shipped broken bits to their customers.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded
of Studio 10. If
the license does not work for you, don't use the product. Statements
to others that it is not free of charge are misleading and
counterproductive.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any direction
in
ON by the end of this month. I do not guarantee that the resulting
bits will actually work, but right now they seem fairly reliable, and
have passed numerous test suites in the past.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack
to optionally mark your bugs Fix
Available as soon as you putback. The gatekeepers mark them Fix
Delivered when the build is closed. So if the first part of that
became mandatory, confusion over open bugs would be substantially
reduced.
--
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within a few weeks.
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-purpose end user installation utility, and that's been
made painfully clear in the documentation.
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___
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-newsletter/
(sic)
[2] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/communities/participation/
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solution' and has been proven to
work reliably.
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it on the
grounds that it's needlessly confusing to people unfamiliar with the
state of OpenSolaris-based distributions.
--
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for
release under a suitable license anyway. I'm afraid this sounds like
a non-starter to me.
--
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OpenSolaris, as these dependencies must be removed to
facilitate compatible open source distributions.
If you amend your proposal to that effect, I will second it.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any direction
a networking bug in Solaris,
please file a bug at http://bugs.opensolaris.org with enough
information to reproduce it, and use the opensolaris-bugs or
networking-discuss mailing lists to discuss the problem and its
solution.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel
created.
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The SFW consolidation delivers a variety of third-party open source software
to Solaris, such as the Apache HTTP server, Samba, and libusb. This
consolidation
delivers its content into /usr/sfw as an integral part of the Solaris OS, and
should
not be confused with the Freeware Companion CD/DVD.
model.
--
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This proposed community would provide long-term guidance to teams managing
releases of the SFW consolidation and projects derived from them, and to project
teams working to release and improve the Companion DVD and similar distributions
of third-party open source software for OpenSolaris-based
and separate piece of work; Sunfreeware is
Sunfreeware, and the companion CD will be opened to development with
Steve acting as gatekeeper.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any direction
the same source base, but
that's not yet possible for the CCD, so Dennis and Steve would do
themselves and their user base a disservice by disbanding their
efforts before the CCD effort is viable and can meet their needs.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel
On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 11:40:20PM -0400, Bruce Riddle wrote:
Well I can tell you wee need a way of asking what processor we have.
Have you tried psrinfo -pv? On AMD chips I can see things like
'Athlon64 3000+' or 'Opteron(tm) Processor 850' as well as model,
stepping, and clock.
--
Keith M
],
SPARC hardware information, and other hardware-specific content.
[0] Especially since many of the areas you mention also apply to
desktops, like ACPI and audio.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any direction
Eric wites:
As time progresses OpenSolaris will run ahead of the
music, and introduce incomaptibilites with Solaris. That's
This is not the plan and is not our announced intent...
Do you mean it's not our (Sun's) intent to also help
cultivate new,
innovative ways to use (the
) and development process tools (project support, change
submission and tracking, review tracking, RTItool).
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
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can express opinions,
but the decision to make Solaris open source has already been made at
the highest level.
--
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.
That's not the plan nor the intent.
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) is that it makes maintaining open
source drivers easier too!
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. For
starters, only ON is part of OpenSolaris right now. Start with
http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/faq/general_faq/#source.
Joerg's concern is legitimate; the discussions have been around the
best way to resolve it.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team
.
Further discussion of ext2 should go to -rfe. Reply-To set
accordingly.
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apologies for the trouble.
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...
That's not harmless. You're right; I need to patch these files as the
SFW gcc does. Sigh.
Thanks for looking into this.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any direction
details on architecture, and the list of ksh93
incompatibilities for the technical points. Because I'm an
irredeemable optimist, I'm setting reply-to to -code in the belief
that the replies will be on topic for that list.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team
and would appear in subsequent releases of
SchilliX, Solaris, and any other distributions. All this development
could be done in the open, like any other project.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent; we can attack in any direction
, and wrong.
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, and the Developer's Reference for more detailed
information on all of this.
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. It may be intentional, but I see no evidence for it and at
first glance I'd agree it's a bug. Why not file it at
bugs.opensolaris.org? Something like 'bldenv and nightly should unset
LD_RUN_PATH'.
--
Keith M Wesolowski Sir, we're surrounded!
Solaris Kernel Team Excellent
certainly not in 20 either. Beyond that, I don't yet know.
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opensolaris-discuss
should
make it pretty obvious. See also
http://opensolaris.org/os/about/no_source/ which won't answer your
question at all but will help if you have the same question about
other missing stuff.
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