[openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday's meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. The documentation can be found from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-cleanout-of-inactive-PS and any input would be appreciated. For your convenience current state below: Glance - Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review We Should start cleaning out our review list to keep the focus on changes that has momentum. Nova is currently abandoning change proposals that has been inactive for 4 weeks. Proposed action (if all of the following is True, abandon the PS): 1. The PS has -1/-2 (including Jenkins) 1. The change is proposed to glance, glance_store or python-glanceclient; specs should not be abandoned as their workflow is much slower 1. No activity for 28 days from Author/Owner after the -1/-2 1. There has been query made to the owner to update the patch between 5 and 10 days before abandoning (comment on PS/Bug or something similar) * Let's be smart on this. Flexibility is good on holiday seasons, during feature freeze, etc. - Erno __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
Hi, I believe that keeping review queue clean is the great idea. But I am not sure that set of these rules is enough to abandon patches. Recently I wrote blogpost related to making OpenStack community more user friendly: http://boris-42.me/thoughts-on-making-openstack-community-more-user-friendly/ tl;dr; Patches on review are great source of information what is missing in project. Removing them from queue means losing this essential information. The result of such actions is that project doesn't face users requirements which is quite bad... What if that project team continue work on all abandoned patches that are covering valid use cases and finish them? Best regards, Boris Pavlovic On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 13/02/15 11:06 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday’s meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. The documentation can be found from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ glance-cleanout-of-inactive-PS and any input would be appreciated. For your convenience current state below: Thanks for putting this together. I missed the meeting yday and this is important. Glance - Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review We Should start cleaning out our review list to keep the focus on changes that has momentum. Nova is currently abandoning change proposals that has been inactive for 4 weeks. Proposed action (if all of the following is True, abandon the PS): 1. The PS has -1/-2 (including Jenkins) I assume you're talking about voting -1/-2 and not Workflow, right? (you said jenkins afterall but just for the sake of clarity). 2. The change is proposed to glance, glance_store or python-glanceclient; specs should not be abandoned as their workflow is much slower 3. No activity for 28 days from Author/Owner after the -1/-2 I'd reword this in No activity. This includes comments, feedback, discussions and or other committers taking over a patch. 4. There has been query made to the owner to update the patch between 5 and 10 days before abandoning (comment on PS/Bug or something similar) ● Let's be smart on this. Flexibility is good on holiday seasons, during feature freeze, etc. +2 to the above, I like it. Thanks again, Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
On 13/02/15 11:06 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday’s meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. The documentation can be found from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ glance-cleanout-of-inactive-PS and any input would be appreciated. For your convenience current state below: Thanks for putting this together. I missed the meeting yday and this is important. Glance - Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review We Should start cleaning out our review list to keep the focus on changes that has momentum. Nova is currently abandoning change proposals that has been inactive for 4 weeks. Proposed action (if all of the following is True, abandon the PS): 1. The PS has -1/-2 (including Jenkins) I assume you're talking about voting -1/-2 and not Workflow, right? (you said jenkins afterall but just for the sake of clarity). 2. The change is proposed to glance, glance_store or python-glanceclient; specs should not be abandoned as their workflow is much slower 3. No activity for 28 days from Author/Owner after the -1/-2 I'd reword this in No activity. This includes comments, feedback, discussions and or other committers taking over a patch. 4. There has been query made to the owner to update the patch between 5 and 10 days before abandoning (comment on PS/Bug or something similar) ● Let's be smart on this. Flexibility is good on holiday seasons, during feature freeze, etc. +2 to the above, I like it. Thanks again, Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco pgp4MX9MUQ9fE.pgp Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
Hi! Important chagesets are supposed to have bugs (or blueprints) assigned to them, so, even if the CS is abandoned, its description still remains on Launchpad in one form or another, so we will not loose it from general project's backlog. And if the changeset didn't have a bug/blueprint specified, then it either does not represent a real use case at all (or its owner didn't bother to document it anyway, so keeping the changeset most probably will not help to understand the use case) So I like the proposal in general. However, it has a little issue: imagine a patchset which receives a -1 from some random reviewer. The owner may reply to that -1 with a reasonable counterargument, and in this situation it is up to the initial reviewer to either agree with that counterargument and revoke the -1 or to continue the discussion and persuade the owner to change the code. However, I've seen situations when the reviewers do not react to such replies and the changesets remain idle with a single -1 which are in fact addressed but not removed. It would be a bad practice if we abandon such commits just because their initial reviewers have lost any interest in continuing the discussion with owners. Probably we should keep such situations in mind when defining inactive. -- Regards, Alexander Tivelkov On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Kuvaja, Erno kuv...@hp.com wrote: Hi Boris, Thanks for your input. I do like the idea of picking up the changes that have not been active. Do you have resources in mind to dedicate for this? My personal take is that if some piece of work has not been touched for a month, it’s probably not that important after all and the community should use the resources to do some work that has actual momentum. The changes itself will not disappear the owner is still able to revive it if felt that there is right time to continue it. The cleanup will just make it easier for people to focus on things that are actually moving. It also will make bug tracking bit easier when one will see on the bug report that the patch got abandoned due to inactivity and indicates that the owner of that bug might not be working on it after all. - Erno From: Boris Pavlovic [mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 1:25 PM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review Hi, I believe that keeping review queue clean is the great idea. But I am not sure that set of these rules is enough to abandon patches. Recently I wrote blogpost related to making OpenStack community more user friendly: http://boris-42.me/thoughts-on-making-openstack-community-more-user-friendly/ tl;dr; Patches on review are great source of information what is missing in project. Removing them from queue means losing this essential information. The result of such actions is that project doesn't face users requirements which is quite bad... What if that project team continue work on all abandoned patches that are covering valid use cases and finish them? Best regards, Boris Pavlovic On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 13/02/15 11:06 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday’s meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. The documentation can be found from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ glance-cleanout-of-inactive-PS and any input would be appreciated. For your convenience current state below: Thanks for putting this together. I missed the meeting yday and this is important. Glance - Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review We Should start cleaning out our review list to keep the focus on changes that has momentum. Nova is currently abandoning change proposals that has been inactive for 4 weeks. Proposed action (if all of the following is True, abandon the PS): 1. The PS has -1/-2 (including Jenkins) I assume you're talking about voting -1/-2 and not Workflow, right? (you said jenkins afterall but just for the sake of clarity). 2. The change is proposed to glance, glance_store or python-glanceclient; specs should not be abandoned as their workflow is much slower 3. No activity for 28 days from Author/Owner after the -1/-2 I'd reword this in No activity. This includes comments, feedback, discussions and or other committers taking over a patch. 4. There has been query made to the owner to update the patch between 5 and 10 days before abandoning (comment on PS/Bug or something similar) ● Let's be smart on this. Flexibility is good on holiday seasons, during feature freeze, etc. +2 to the above, I like it. Thanks again, Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
Hi Boris, Thanks for your input. I do like the idea of picking up the changes that have not been active. Do you have resources in mind to dedicate for this? My personal take is that if some piece of work has not been touched for a month, it’s probably not that important after all and the community should use the resources to do some work that has actual momentum. The changes itself will not disappear the owner is still able to revive it if felt that there is right time to continue it. The cleanup will just make it easier for people to focus on things that are actually moving. It also will make bug tracking bit easier when one will see on the bug report that the patch got abandoned due to inactivity and indicates that the owner of that bug might not be working on it after all. - Erno From: Boris Pavlovic [mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 1:25 PM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review Hi, I believe that keeping review queue clean is the great idea. But I am not sure that set of these rules is enough to abandon patches. Recently I wrote blogpost related to making OpenStack community more user friendly: http://boris-42.me/thoughts-on-making-openstack-community-more-user-friendly/ tl;dr; Patches on review are great source of information what is missing in project. Removing them from queue means losing this essential information. The result of such actions is that project doesn't face users requirements which is quite bad... What if that project team continue work on all abandoned patches that are covering valid use cases and finish them? Best regards, Boris Pavlovic On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.commailto:fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 13/02/15 11:06 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday’s meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. The documentation can be found from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ glance-cleanout-of-inactive-PS and any input would be appreciated. For your convenience current state below: Thanks for putting this together. I missed the meeting yday and this is important. Glance - Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review We Should start cleaning out our review list to keep the focus on changes that has momentum. Nova is currently abandoning change proposals that has been inactive for 4 weeks. Proposed action (if all of the following is True, abandon the PS): 1. The PS has -1/-2 (including Jenkins) I assume you're talking about voting -1/-2 and not Workflow, right? (you said jenkins afterall but just for the sake of clarity). 2. The change is proposed to glance, glance_store or python-glanceclient; specs should not be abandoned as their workflow is much slower 3. No activity for 28 days from Author/Owner after the -1/-2 I'd reword this in No activity. This includes comments, feedback, discussions and or other committers taking over a patch. 4. There has been query made to the owner to update the patch between 5 and 10 days before abandoning (comment on PS/Bug or something similar) ● Let's be smart on this. Flexibility is good on holiday seasons, during feature freeze, etc. +2 to the above, I like it. Thanks again, Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribehttp://openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
On 13/02/15 14:17 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: Hi Boris, Thanks for your input. I do like the idea of picking up the changes that have not been active. Do you have resources in mind to dedicate for this? My personal take is that if some piece of work has not been touched for a month, it’s probably not that important after all and the community should use the resources to do some work that has actual momentum. The changes itself will not disappear the owner is still able to revive it if felt that there is right time to continue it. The cleanup will just make it easier for people to focus on things that are actually moving. It also will make bug tracking bit easier when one will see on the bug report that the patch got abandoned due to inactivity and indicates that the owner of that bug might not be working on it after all. I agree the above holds most of the times. However, I think we should add one more step to the bullets you mentioned in your previous email. That is, taking a good look to the review and understanding if it'd be worth taking it over. Some reviews are stalled on minor fixes/rebases. It'd be a shame to abandon a patch that would be a good fix for a bug based on a missing rebase. Flavio - Erno From: Boris Pavlovic [mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 1:25 PM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review Hi, I believe that keeping review queue clean is the great idea. But I am not sure that set of these rules is enough to abandon patches. Recently I wrote blogpost related to making OpenStack community more user friendly: http://boris-42.me/thoughts-on-making-openstack-community-more-user-friendly/ tl;dr; Patches on review are great source of information what is missing in project. Removing them from queue means losing this essential information. The result of such actions is that project doesn't face users requirements which is quite bad... What if that project team continue work on all abandoned patches that are covering valid use cases and finish them? Best regards, Boris Pavlovic On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 13/02/15 11:06 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote: Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday’s meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. The documentation can be found from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ glance-cleanout-of-inactive-PS and any input would be appreciated. For your convenience current state below: Thanks for putting this together. I missed the meeting yday and this is important. Glance - Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review We Should start cleaning out our review list to keep the focus on changes that has momentum. Nova is currently abandoning change proposals that has been inactive for 4 weeks. Proposed action (if all of the following is True, abandon the PS): 1. The PS has -1/-2 (including Jenkins) I assume you're talking about voting -1/-2 and not Workflow, right? (you said jenkins afterall but just for the sake of clarity). 2. The change is proposed to glance, glance_store or python-glanceclient; specs should not be abandoned as their workflow is much slower 3. No activity for 28 days from Author/Owner after the -1/-2 I'd reword this in No activity. This includes comments, feedback, discussions and or other committers taking over a patch. 4. There has been query made to the owner to update the patch between 5 and 10 days before abandoning (comment on PS/Bug or something similar) ● Let's be smart on this. Flexibility is good on holiday seasons, during feature freeze, etc. +2 to the above, I like it. Thanks again, Flavio -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco pgp1NCUT4nMq9.pgp Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
Hi, Getting so mixed that I’ll jump to the inline commenting as well. From: Boris Pavlovic [mailto:bo...@pavlovic.me] Sent: 13 February 2015 15:01 To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review Erno, My personal take is that if some piece of work has not been touched for a month, it’s probably not that important after all and the community should use the resources to do some work that has actual momentum. Based on my experience, one of the most common situation in OpenStack is next: 1) Somebody makes fast (but with right idea) changes, because he (and usually others) needs it 2) It doesn't pass review process fast 3) Author of this patch has billions others tasks (not related to upstream) and can't work on this change anymore 4) Patch get's abounded and forgotten I’m unfortunately starting to sound like a broken record but again. If no-one has touched the change (or taken it over) in 4 weeks at the point when there is clear indication that if the change does not get traction it will be cleaned from the review, it’s probably not worth of keeping there any longer either. The changes itself will not disappear the owner is still able to revive it if felt that there is right time to continue it. Nobody never reviews abounded changes.. Repeating the previous, if your change gets abandoned because of inactivity and you don’t care about it, why should someone else who haven’t cared so far? The cleanup will just make it easier for people to focus on things that are actually moving. Making decision based on activity around patches is not the best way to do things. So what would be better way to do it? We have currently 4 pages of change proposals in the review that has been touched by anyone in Feb. Honest question, who scrolls further than that or even down to that 4th page? From page 6 forward there are changes that has been last time touched last year. And this is purely from “updated” column, so I did not look when the owner/author/committer has last time touched these. If we take a look at the structure of OpenStack projects we will see next things: 1) Things that re moving fast/good are usually related to things that core team (or active members) are working on. This team is resolving limited set of use cases (this is mostly related because not every member is running it's own production cloud) This is very true, dropping that core team away and let’s keep the active members here. Because it’s a community it’s extremely difficult to get people working on something else than what they or their employers sees important. 2) Operators/Admins/DevOps that are running their own cloud have a lot of experience knows a lot of missing use cases and source of issues. But usually they are not involved in community process so they don't know whole road map of project, so they are not able to fully align their patches with road map, or eventually just don't have enough time to work on features. So abounding patches from 2 group just because of inactivity can make big harm to project. I don’t think pushing for activity is bad thing and would do big harm for project(s). These are matters of priority and I do not see any benefit keeping changes in review that haven’t been touched for months (current situation). If this group 2 is the fundamental issue of our changes stalling in review, we need to fix that rather than let it clutter the queue. We are talking open source project and community here. I find it extremely hard to justify asking anyone in the community to take responsibility of someone else’s production cloud if they have no interest to resource the above for the benefit of their own business. Do you have resources in mind to dedicate for this? Sometimes I am doing it by my self, sometimes newbies in community (that want some work to get involved), sometimes core team is working on old patches. We will not run out of the bug fixing work and the commits against those bugs will stay in the bug even after they get abandoned. Important chagesets are supposed to have bugs (or blueprints) assigned to them, so, even if the CS is abandoned, its description still remains on Launchpad in one form or another, so we will not loose it from general project's backlog This is not true in a lot of cases. =) In many cases DevOps/Operators don't know or don't want to spend time for launchpad/specs/ and so on. Then we need to educate and encourage them instead of support the behavior of “Throw it in and someone at some day will maybe take care of it”-attitude. - Erno Best regards, Boris Pavlovic On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Kuvaja, Erno kuv...@hp.commailto:kuv...@hp.com wrote: Hi Boris, Thanks for your input. I do like the idea of picking up the changes that have not been active. Do you have resources in mind to dedicate for this? My
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
Kuvaja, Erno kuv...@hp.com writes: Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday's meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. Hi, Abandoning changes submitted by other people is not a good experience for people who are contributing to OpenStack, but fortunately, it is not necessary. Our current version of Gerrit supports a rich syntax for searching, which you can use to create personal or project dashboards. It is quite easy to filter out changes that appear old or inactive, without the negative experience of having them abandoned. Many projects, including all of the infra projects (which see a substantial number of changes) are able to function without automatically abandoning changes. If you could identify why you feel the need to abandon other peoples changes, I'm sure we can find a resolution. -Jim __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
-Original Message- From: James E. Blair [mailto:cor...@inaugust.com] Sent: 13 February 2015 16:44 To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review Kuvaja, Erno kuv...@hp.com writes: Hi all, We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday's meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. Hi, Abandoning changes submitted by other people is not a good experience for people who are contributing to OpenStack, but fortunately, it is not necessary. Our current version of Gerrit supports a rich syntax for searching, which you can use to create personal or project dashboards. It is quite easy to filter out changes that appear old or inactive, without the negative experience of having them abandoned. Many projects, including all of the infra projects (which see a substantial number of changes) are able to function without automatically abandoning changes. If you could identify why you feel the need to abandon other peoples changes, I'm sure we can find a resolution. -Jim Hi Jim, I think you hit spot on here. It's extremely difficult to automate anything like this being smart and flexible. ;) - Erno __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: OpenStack-dev- requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [glance] Cleanout of inactive change proposals from review
Erno Kuvaja wrote: We have almost year old (from last update) reviews still in the queue for glance. The discussion was initiated on yesterday's meeting for adopting abandon policy for stale changes. I'm okay with abandoning old some old reviews which are obviously going nowhere, such as ones superseded by other fixes or not deemed necessary by anyone (and should probably have been abandoned by the author). I'm not convinced about this being a commonplace action for reviews which are currently inactive. James E. Blair wrote: Abandoning changes submitted by other people is not a good experience for people who are contributing to OpenStack, but fortunately, it is not necessary. Our current version of Gerrit supports a rich syntax for searching, which you can use to create personal or project dashboards. It is quite easy to filter out changes that appear old or inactive, without the negative experience of having them abandoned. Many projects, including all of the infra projects (which see a substantial number of changes) are able to function without automatically abandoning changes. If you could identify why you feel the need to abandon other peoples changes, I'm sure we can find a resolution. I agree with this. I made (actually hacked up Ironic's. Thanks Ironic!) a dashboard for glance [1], which is what I use during reviewing. This hides a lot of the reviews which look stale, and is fairly good at getting an overview of the reviews which require attention. Using or editing a dashboard for your own daily use removes the need to abandon the majority of the changes this proposal suggests. Louis [1] http://goo.gl/eS05pD signature.asc Description: Digital signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
