Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 28/09/16 17:49 -0400, Ryan Hallisey wrote:

Hey Flavio,

I attached two architecture diagrams highlighting the four main
lifecycle pieces of OpenStack orchestration: bootstrapping,
deployment, upgrading, and scaling. Config is also in there, but
it was constant throughout each diagram.

The diagrams are not designed to be a detailed workflow of events, but
rather an easy to consume high level architecture.

I'll iterate on this further when I get a chance.

Thanks!
-Ryan

- Original Message -
From: "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com>
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:27:45 PM
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

Here you go Flavio, Sergey and team collected some information from
fuel-ccp efforts.

Design for OpenStack Containerized Control Plane :
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378266/
Design document for clustering services on k8s :
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378244/
Add test plan/results for fuel-ccp : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378271/



This is awesome! You all rock! I'll go through this info and try to come up with
a summary of what has been done and I'll report back. Let's see what comes out
of this.

Thanks again for your help and contributions :)
Flavio


Thanks,
Dims

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> wrote:

On 27/09/16 00:41 +, Fox, Kevin M wrote:


I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about
what kolla-kubernetes is

Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to
successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty
much what you asked for.

There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true
way. It really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a
daemonset or a petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The
answer is, it depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better
now)

kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of
information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main
openstack configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that
case.

Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in
what order they are started is a separate thing.

You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see
what it thinks is best.

If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them
and dump them to html.

I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes
much more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo,
fuel, and others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to
build a community around this database.

Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only
readable version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many
fewer useful outcomes.



I just want to point out that I'm not asking anyone to make a new project
and
that my intention is to collect info from other projects too, not just
kolla-kubernetes. This is a pure documentation effort. I understand you
don't
think this is useful and I appreciate your feedback.

Flavio



Please help the community make a great machine and human readable
reference architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes
project. There are plenty of opportunity to help out.

Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more
human friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that
asks a few questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways?

Thanks,
Kevin

From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com]
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture
to deploy OpenStack on k8s

On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:


Flavio,

Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with
lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0].

Your question:

I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me
what I
asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions
about the
"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like:
Should I
run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now
with
PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the
services in
the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional
controller/compute/storage
architecture.

You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from
kolla-kubernetes and
start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was
something
written a

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Davanum Srinivas]

Here you go Flavio, Sergey and team collected some information from
fuel-ccp efforts.

Design for OpenStack Containerized Control Plane :
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378266/
Design document for clustering services on k8s :
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378244/
Add test plan/results for fuel-ccp : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378271/

Thanks,
Dims

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> wrote:
> On 27/09/16 00:41 +, Fox, Kevin M wrote:
>>
>> I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about
>> what kolla-kubernetes is
>>
>> Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to
>> successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty
>> much what you asked for.
>>
>> There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true
>> way. It really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a
>> daemonset or a petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The
>> answer is, it depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better
>> now)
>>
>> kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of
>> information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main
>> openstack configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that
>> case.
>>
>> Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in
>> what order they are started is a separate thing.
>>
>> You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see
>> what it thinks is best.
>>
>> If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them
>> and dump them to html.
>>
>> I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes
>> much more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo,
>> fuel, and others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to
>> build a community around this database.
>>
>> Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only
>> readable version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many
>> fewer useful outcomes.
>
>
> I just want to point out that I'm not asking anyone to make a new project
> and
> that my intention is to collect info from other projects too, not just
> kolla-kubernetes. This is a pure documentation effort. I understand you
> don't
> think this is useful and I appreciate your feedback.
>
> Flavio
>
>
>> Please help the community make a great machine and human readable
>> reference architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes
>> project. There are plenty of opportunity to help out.
>>
>> Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more
>> human friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that
>> asks a few questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin
>> 
>> From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com]
>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM
>> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture
>> to deploy OpenStack on k8s
>>
>> On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:
>>>
>>> Flavio,
>>>
>>> Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with
>>> lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0].
>>>
>>> Your question:
>>>
>>> I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me
>>> what I
>>> asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions
>>> about the
>>> "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like:
>>> Should I
>>> run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now
>>> with
>>> PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the
>>> services in
>>> the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional
>>> controller/compute/storage
>>> architecture.
>>>
>>> You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from
>>> kolla-kubernetes and
>>> start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was
>>> something
>>> written already.
>>> Your question ^
>>>
>>> My answer:
>>> I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the
>>> choices we have mad

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 27/09/16 00:41 +, Fox, Kevin M wrote:

I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about what 
kolla-kubernetes is

Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to 
successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty 
much what you asked for.

There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true way. It 
really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a daemonset or a 
petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The answer is, it 
depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better now)

kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of 
information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main openstack 
configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that case.

Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in what 
order they are started is a separate thing.

You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see what 
it thinks is best.

If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them and 
dump them to html.

I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes much 
more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo, fuel, and 
others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to build a 
community around this database.

Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only readable 
version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many fewer useful 
outcomes.


I just want to point out that I'm not asking anyone to make a new project and
that my intention is to collect info from other projects too, not just
kolla-kubernetes. This is a pure documentation effort. I understand you don't
think this is useful and I appreciate your feedback.

Flavio


Please help the community make a great machine and human readable reference 
architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes project. There are 
plenty of opportunity to help out.

Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more human 
friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that asks a few 
questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways?

Thanks,
Kevin

From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com]
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:

Flavio,

Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 
2016 which apparently has a bug here [0].

Your question:

I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I
asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the
"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I
run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with
PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in
the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage
architecture.

You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and
start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something
written already.
Your question ^

My answer:
I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices 
we have made.  I would not argue that reading the code would answer that 
question because it does not.  Instead it answers how those choices were 
implemented.

You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give 
you what you really want.  Participation in the Kolla community will answer for 
you *why* choices were made as they were.  Many choices are left unanswered as 
of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making 
about *why*.  You have to participate to have your voice heard.  If you are 
expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we 
have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that.  Ryan and 
Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete 
documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is 
wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a 
worthy goal.  The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to 
derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things).

The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the 
standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process.


Steve,

Thanks for getting back on this. Unfortunatelly, I think you keep missing my
point and my goal.

I'd like to document the arc

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 23/09/16 12:33 -0400, Ryan Hallisey wrote:

Thanks for starting the discussion Fabio.


As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see
our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great
to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some
folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work
on this together.


Agreed Flavio. Members of the kolla-kubernetes community have some ideas of
how this will look.  I can put together some diagrams over the weekend to depict
this and maybe others that have some ideas can comment and share theirs.


Sounds awesome! Thanks a bunch :)


So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some
history and/or context:
- Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for
 deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?


These specs [1][2] might be a good start.


I'll go through these, thanks.


- Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it
 be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?


kolla-kubernetes has a booked slot in the weekly kolla meetings. This could be
discussed there.


++


So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does
that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world
data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well
researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions.
We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around
it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains.



Awesome input, thanks.


Michal is right, there are a bunch of implementations that exist. The tricky
part is pulling together all the groups to figure out the best solution.

When the kolla-kubernetes project was created, my hope that this new repo would
be a place where anyone curious about the OpenStack and Kubernetes interaction
could come and express their opinion in code or conversation. The community 
still
remains open to any changes with it's implementation and the current
implementation is a reflection of who is participating.

I agree that it would be ideal for a single place to collaborate. It would be
awesome to bring together the community that is looking to solve this
problem around a single project. Doesn't matter what that project is, but I'd
like for more collaboration :).


As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to
take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical
debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best
approach.



I wonder if we can start writing these assumptions down and update them as we
go. I don't expect you to do it, I'm happy to help with this. We could put it in
kolla-k8s docs if that makes sense to other kolla-k8s folks.


It's not that Kolla-k8s has tech debt, but rather the community is still 
testing the
waters with its implementation. For instance, the community is looking at a 
workflow
that will execute the deployment of OpenStack and hand off to Kubernetes to 
manage it.
This solution raises some questions: why do you need a workflow at all? Why not
use Kubernetes, a Container Orchestration Engine, to orchestrate the services?  
A lot
of these fundamental questions were outlined in this spec [1] and the answers 
to them
are still WIP [3].


Indeed! This and other fundamental questions are the ones I'd like us to answer
and document, perhaps as new things happen. I'll read [3] too. Thanks for the
pointer.


I'll probably start pinging you guys on IRC with questions so I can help writing
this down.


That would be fantastic! There's also room for collaboration at summit too.
Kolla-kubernetes will have a design session/fishbowl scheduled.


Awesome! I'll be there for sure :)


There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain
features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves
them on their side, that will affect decision on our side.



Thanks a lot, Michal. This is indeed the kind of info I was looking for and
where I'd love to start from.


Agreed Michal.  The community has been adapting on the fly based on features 
coming
out of Kubernetes.  Things like init containers and petsets were recent features
that have found their way into kolla-kubernetes.

The flow of work in kolla-kubernetes has been following the work items in the
spec [1], but in a different order.  The basic outline for putting OpenStack on
Kubernetes will follow a similar path. Where as things like the templates will
be similar, but the orchestration method can vary. I think that's where the
biggest controversy lies.



Thanks a lot for all your comments, Ryan. This is useful content and I'll go
through it and ask questions there and/or on IRC.

Flavio


Thanks!
-Ryan

[1] - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304182/
[2] - 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Fox, Kevin M]

I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about what 
kolla-kubernetes is

Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to 
successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty 
much what you asked for.

There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true way. It 
really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a daemonset or a 
petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The answer is, it 
depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better now)

kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of 
information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main openstack 
configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that case.

Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in what 
order they are started is a separate thing.

You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see what 
it thinks is best.

If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them and 
dump them to html.

I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes much 
more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo, fuel, and 
others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to build a 
community around this database.

Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only readable 
version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many fewer useful 
outcomes.

Please help the community make a great machine and human readable reference 
architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes project. There are 
plenty of opportunity to help out.

Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more human 
friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that asks a few 
questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways?

Thanks,
Kevin

From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com]
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:
>Flavio,
>
>Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 
>2016 which apparently has a bug here [0].
>
>Your question:
>
>I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I
>asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the
>"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I
>run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with
>PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in
>the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage
>architecture.
>
>You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and
>start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something
>written already.
>Your question ^
>
>My answer:
>I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices 
>we have made.  I would not argue that reading the code would answer that 
>question because it does not.  Instead it answers how those choices were 
>implemented.
>
>You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give 
>you what you really want.  Participation in the Kolla community will answer 
>for you *why* choices were made as they were.  Many choices are left 
>unanswered as of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the 
>decision making about *why*.  You have to participate to have your voice 
>heard.  If you are expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation 
>to explain *why* we have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time 
>for that.  Ryan and Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other 
>forms of incomplete documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view 
>of *why* and is wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I 
>think it’s a worthy goal.  The timing for such a request is terrible and I 
>don’t want to derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to 
>do things).
>
>The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using 
>the standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process.

Steve,

Thanks for getting back on this. Unfortunatelly, I think you keep missing my
point and my goal.

I'd like to document the architectural choices and see if there's a common
ground in which different teams can collaborate on. In addition to this, we'll
also see at what point these teams will start 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:

Flavio,

Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 
2016 which apparently has a bug here [0].

Your question:

I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I
asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the
"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I
run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with
PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in
the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage
architecture.

You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and
start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something
written already.
Your question ^

My answer:
I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices 
we have made.  I would not argue that reading the code would answer that 
question because it does not.  Instead it answers how those choices were 
implemented.

You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give 
you what you really want.  Participation in the Kolla community will answer for 
you *why* choices were made as they were.  Many choices are left unanswered as 
of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making 
about *why*.  You have to participate to have your voice heard.  If you are 
expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we 
have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that.  Ryan and 
Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete 
documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is 
wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a 
worthy goal.  The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to 
derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things).

The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the 
standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process.


Steve,

Thanks for getting back on this. Unfortunatelly, I think you keep missing my
point and my goal.

I'd like to document the architectural choices and see if there's a common
ground in which different teams can collaborate on. In addition to this, we'll
also see at what point these teams will start diverging in architectural
choices. Will the time invested on this be entirely wasted? Maybe.

I'm failing to see what is wrong about my request. You mention that I need to
contribute to have my voice heard in Kolla as if I'm trying to change anything
in it. Spoiler alert: I'm not.

I'd like to first work on what I've mentioned in my email and then take the next
step. It's also important to note that I've not asked the Kolla team to do this
themselves. I've said that I'd like to hear thoughts and friendly discussions on
this from different teams (not just kolla), which could easily happen over
email. For example, we could stop arguing whether my email makes sense or not
and perhaps start dropping some ideas here.

Anyway, I appreciate your input and you taking the time to explain the status
and efforts of the Kolla team. As far as my contributions go, this is a way for
me to start contributing on the deployment on containers efforts around the
community and more specifically on the kubernetes side. It might not be what
everyone wants but I believe it does help and it'll create a common place for
collaboration on this topic amongts different communities (including OPs).

Flavio


Flavio,

Consider this an invitation to come join us – we want Red Hat’s participation.

Regards
-steve


[0]  
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_mac/outlook-for-mac-2016-replying-inline-with-html-no/298b830e-11ea-416c-b951-918d8f9562cb

From: Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:10 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

On 22/09/16 20:55 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:
Flavio,

Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large.

Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly.

It's probably me failing to communicate my intent or just the intent not being
good enough or worth it at all.

It came across to me as “How do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”.  
That was asked of me personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the 
Kolla project inside Red Hat.  Our initial effort at that activity failed.  
Instead we decided kubern

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Steven Dake (stdake)]

Jay apologies.

That was an overgeneralization.  The fuel team was not part of the kolla-mesos 
team to my knowledge.  To my knowledge the kolla-mesos team has moved on to 
kubernetes upstream work and isn’t all that involved in fuel work.

Cheers
-steve


From: Jay Pipes <jaypi...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 11:43 AM
To: "openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

On 09/23/2016 01:04 PM, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:
I also fail to see how training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla
has made in implementation puts OpenStack first.

Sorry, could you elaborate on what exactly you mean above? What do you
mean by "training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made"?

Best,
-jay

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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Fox, Kevin M]

There's a bit of why documentation here (though somewhat dated now):
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/361186/

And here:
https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes/blob/master/specs/ansible-deployment.rst

But there is still a bunch of stuff that we're still figuring out via the 
review process.

We've got an opinion on how to do 0 downtime minor rolling upgrades of api 
services fully automated by kubernetes, for example. Is our solution the best 
way? who knows. But its the best way we can think of currently. The only way to 
really gain this knowledge right now is to review stuff as we all come to a 
common understanding about the "best way". I'm guessing in a number of months, 
when we have the majority of openstack services working smoothly we will have 
enough knowledge to really document it well. We only currently have the compute 
kit stuff working well. For now, we can only revise our best practices as we 
find new issues when we add new services.

Please do join us and lets work together to find the best solution for 
openstack on kubernetes. We all want that.

One other thing.

We've been trying to keep workfow/config generation separate from the parts 
that generate the templates and hand them over to kubernetes. This means, that 
you can use something other then ansible to generate the config and step 
through/orchestrate the deployment. not all of the templates are 100% doing 
this yet, but we're actively working on it.

So, if you wanted to do config management and worflow in say, mistral and/or 
heat it should work. I think it would fit very well with TripleO's current 
architecture. We designed kolla-kubernetes here to be flexible to these sorts 
of needs. I'd also be happy to talk more about this if you'd like.

Thanks,
Kevin



From: Steven Dake (stdake) [std...@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 10:47 AM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

Flavio,

Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 
2016 which apparently has a bug here [0].

Your question:

I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I
asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the
"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I
run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with
PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in
the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage
architecture.

You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and
start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something
written already.
Your question ^

My answer:
I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices 
we have made.  I would not argue that reading the code would answer that 
question because it does not.  Instead it answers how those choices were 
implemented.

You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give 
you what you really want.  Participation in the Kolla community will answer for 
you *why* choices were made as they were.  Many choices are left unanswered as 
of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making 
about *why*.  You have to participate to have your voice heard.  If you are 
expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we 
have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that.  Ryan and 
Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete 
documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is 
wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a 
worthy goal.  The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to 
derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things).

The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the 
standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process.

Flavio,

Consider this an invitation to come join us – we want Red Hat’s participation.

Regards
-steve


[0]  
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_mac/outlook-for-mac-2016-replying-inline-with-html-no/298b830e-11ea-416c-b951-918d8f9562cb

From: Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:10 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

On 22/09/16 20:55 +

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Jay Pipes]

On 09/23/2016 01:04 PM, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:

I also fail to see how training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla
has made in implementation puts OpenStack first.


Sorry, could you elaborate on what exactly you mean above? What do you 
mean by "training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made"?


Best,
-jay

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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Steven Dake (stdake)]

Flavio,

Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 
2016 which apparently has a bug here [0].

Your question:

I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I
asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the
"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I
run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with
PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in
the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage
architecture.

You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and
start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something
written already.
Your question ^

My answer:
I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices 
we have made.  I would not argue that reading the code would answer that 
question because it does not.  Instead it answers how those choices were 
implemented.

You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give 
you what you really want.  Participation in the Kolla community will answer for 
you *why* choices were made as they were.  Many choices are left unanswered as 
of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making 
about *why*.  You have to participate to have your voice heard.  If you are 
expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we 
have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that.  Ryan and 
Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete 
documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is 
wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a 
worthy goal.  The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to 
derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things).

The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the 
standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process.

Flavio,

Consider this an invitation to come join us – we want Red Hat’s participation.

Regards
-steve


[0]  
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_mac/outlook-for-mac-2016-replying-inline-with-html-no/298b830e-11ea-416c-b951-918d8f9562cb

From: Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:10 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to 
deploy OpenStack on k8s

On 22/09/16 20:55 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:
Flavio,

Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large.

Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly.

It's probably me failing to communicate my intent or just the intent not being
good enough or worth it at all.

It came across to me as “How do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”.  
That was asked of me personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the 
Kolla project inside Red Hat.  Our initial effort at that activity failed.  
Instead we decided kubernetes wasn’t ready for trailblazing in this space and 
used a far more mature project (Ansible) to solve the “OpenStack in Containers” 
problems and build from there.

We have since expanded our scope to re-solve the “How do I blaze a trail for 
Openstack on Kubernetes?” question since Kubernetes is now ready for this sort 
of trailblazing.  Fuel and several other folks decided to create derived works 
of the Kolla community’s innovations in this area.  I would contend that Fuel 
didn’t need to behave in such a way because the Kolla community is open, 
friendly, mature, diversely affiliated, has a reasonable philosophy and good 
set of principles as well as a strong leadership pipeline.

Rather than go blaze a trail when one already exists or create a derived work, 
why not increase your footprint in Kolla instead?  Red Hat has invested in 
Kolla for some time now, and their footprint hasn’t magically disappeared over 
night.   We will give you what you want within reasonable boundaries (the 
boundaries all open-source projects set of their contributors).  We also accept 
more work than the typical OpenStack project might, so it’s not like you will 
have to bring donuts into the office for every patch you merge into Kolla.

As to your more direct question of reference architecture, that is a totally 
loaded term that I’ll leave untouched.

To answer your question of “Does Kolla have a set of best practices” the answer 
is yes in kolla-ansible and kolla itself and strongly forming set of best 
practices in kolla-kubernetes.

As I 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Steven Dake (stdake)]

Bogdan,

I recognize English isn’t your first language, so forgive me if I have 
mis-parsed your message.  I think the question you are asking is “Can we have 
cooperation to standardize on how best to do OpenStack on Kubernetes”.  We 
tried an analog of that with Mirantis around Mesos, and that resulted in many 
derived works, one of which was fuel-ccp.  Fuel has made it abundantly clear 
they intend to compete with Kolla, which is fine.  I recognize we are one 
community and need to put OpenStack first here, and project teams second, but I 
also fail to see how training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made in 
implementation puts OpenStack first.

Standard organizational best practice with competitive teams in any 
organization is either to stamp out the competition or let them compete 
independently to grow the pie for everyone. The activity you propose would not 
put OpenStack first because of this organizational best practice.

Our code base is completely open.  Our irc channels are completely open.  Our 
mailing list participation is completely open.  Our architecture discussions 
are completely open.  Our project is OPEN.  If you really want to participate 
in Kolla the door remains open.  I find it hard to see a way for that to happen 
given the history and Mirantis’s stated intent, but anything is possible if the 
right people change their minds.

Regards
-steve

On 9/23/16, 8:37 AM, "Bogdan Dobrelya"  wrote:

Yeah, would be very nice to have/reuse a place for highest level and
projects independent specs to outline key architecture decisions like
(WARN [tl;dr]: biased examples from a non existent prototype go below):

* Shared nothing for stateful DB/MQ components (this means no shared
storage for state keeping, but replicas instead)
* And maybe place stateful and SDN/NFV/HW bound components *out* of COE
scope (they are well known to like only
stateless/serverless/schemaless/overlay only unicorns. A joke!..)
* CM tools-agnostic containers build pipelines
* Building images from sources but ship only artifacts w/o build deps
* No entry points magic in build pipeline for containers images to be
spawned by COE platforms as apps.
* Rework components to support 12 factor apps requirements, e.g.
redirect to stdout/stderr only, do not use implicit communication
channels etc.
* Runtime only data driven approach (no j2 templates for build pipeline
please!)
and more things...

On 22.09.2016 16:49, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 22/09/16 10:09 -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> Flavio
>>
>> Please see below:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco 
>> wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
>>> OpenStack.
>>> More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for
>>> deploying
>>> OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in
>>> right now
>>> as
>>> part of the TripleO efforts.
>>>
>>> I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this
>>> team. In
>>> fact,
>>> TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
>>> deployment.
>>>
>>> I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to
>>> explore
>>> in
>>> more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
>>> both
>>> kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both
>>> projects
>>> have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some
>>> decisions.
>>>
>>> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd
>>> love to
>>> see
>>> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
>>> great
>>> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
>>> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd
>>> assume
>>> some
>>> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it
>>> if we
>>> work
>>> on this together.
>>>
>>> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be
>>> missing
>>> some
>>> history and/or context:
>>>
>>> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference
>>> architecture
>>> for
>>>  deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
>>> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with?
>>> Or would
>>> it
>>>  be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?
>>>
>>> The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
>>> architecture
>>> explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.
>>
>> At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
>> governance, there is no expectation of any 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Ryan Hallisey]

Thanks for starting the discussion Fabio.

> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see
> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great
> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume 
> some
> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we 
> work
> on this together.

Agreed Flavio. Members of the kolla-kubernetes community have some ideas of
how this will look.  I can put together some diagrams over the weekend to depict
this and maybe others that have some ideas can comment and share theirs.

> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing 
> some
> history and/or context:
> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for
>  deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?

These specs [1][2] might be a good start.

> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would 
> it
>  be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?

kolla-kubernetes has a booked slot in the weekly kolla meetings. This could be
discussed there.

>> So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does
>> that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world
>> data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well
>> researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions.
>> We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around
>> it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains.

> Awesome input, thanks.

Michal is right, there are a bunch of implementations that exist. The tricky
part is pulling together all the groups to figure out the best solution.

When the kolla-kubernetes project was created, my hope that this new repo would
be a place where anyone curious about the OpenStack and Kubernetes interaction
could come and express their opinion in code or conversation. The community 
still
remains open to any changes with it's implementation and the current
implementation is a reflection of who is participating.

I agree that it would be ideal for a single place to collaborate. It would be
awesome to bring together the community that is looking to solve this
problem around a single project. Doesn't matter what that project is, but I'd
like for more collaboration :).

>> As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to
>> take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical
>> debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best
>> approach.

> I wonder if we can start writing these assumptions down and update them as we
> go. I don't expect you to do it, I'm happy to help with this. We could put it 
> in
> kolla-k8s docs if that makes sense to other kolla-k8s folks.

It's not that Kolla-k8s has tech debt, but rather the community is still 
testing the
waters with its implementation. For instance, the community is looking at a 
workflow
that will execute the deployment of OpenStack and hand off to Kubernetes to 
manage it.
This solution raises some questions: why do you need a workflow at all? Why not
use Kubernetes, a Container Orchestration Engine, to orchestrate the services?  
A lot
of these fundamental questions were outlined in this spec [1] and the answers 
to them
are still WIP [3].

> I'll probably start pinging you guys on IRC with questions so I can help 
> writing
> this down.

That would be fantastic! There's also room for collaboration at summit too.
Kolla-kubernetes will have a design session/fishbowl scheduled.

>> There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain
>> features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves
>> them on their side, that will affect decision on our side.

> Thanks a lot, Michal. This is indeed the kind of info I was looking for and
> where I'd love to start from.

Agreed Michal.  The community has been adapting on the fly based on features 
coming
out of Kubernetes.  Things like init containers and petsets were recent features
that have found their way into kolla-kubernetes.

The flow of work in kolla-kubernetes has been following the work items in the
spec [1], but in a different order.  The basic outline for putting OpenStack on
Kubernetes will follow a similar path. Where as things like the templates will
be similar, but the orchestration method can vary. I think that's where the
biggest controversy lies.

Thanks!
-Ryan

[1] - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304182/
[2] - https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/fuel-specs/specs/10.0/ccp.html
[3] - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335279/

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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Joshua Harlow]

Flavio Percoco wrote:

Greetings,

I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
OpenStack.
More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for
deploying
OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right
now as
part of the TripleO efforts.

I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team.
In fact,
TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
deployment.

I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to
explore in
more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
both
kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both
projects
have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.

As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love
to see
our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
great
to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd
assume some
folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if
we work
on this together.



Can u describe here what u think 'deploying OpenStack on kubernetes' 
means to you, what is the boundary of OpenStack and what is the boundary 
of kubernetes in your mind? For example where does ironic fit in your 
view; where does nova fit in your view also. Is nova going to be 
deployed ontop of kubernetes and VM's will be spun up where? What about 
the baremetal (or VMs?) that kubernetes would need to run on (where is 
that coming from?).


To me the 'OpenStack on kubernetes' is not really something a simple 
statement can answer, so I'd like to know what u think that statement 
means :)


Btw, there is a sig-openstack in k8s, they also have a slack channel, 
and a google group 
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/kubernetes-sig-openstack (I'm not such 
a big fan of requiring people to find slack or google groups, but it is 
what it is...)


Overall +1 to 'communities collaborate more wherever possible'

I was trying to setup a keystone meeting with the sig-auth folks (I 
guess sig-auth is pretty much the equivalent of the keystone group in 
k8s); and someone is more than welcome to take that over (but again it 
depends on where in your mind a thing like keystone lives after put 
ontop/underneath/inside/all-around k8s+openstack).


-Josh

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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Bogdan Dobrelya]

Yeah, would be very nice to have/reuse a place for highest level and
projects independent specs to outline key architecture decisions like
(WARN [tl;dr]: biased examples from a non existent prototype go below):

* Shared nothing for stateful DB/MQ components (this means no shared
storage for state keeping, but replicas instead)
* And maybe place stateful and SDN/NFV/HW bound components *out* of COE
scope (they are well known to like only
stateless/serverless/schemaless/overlay only unicorns. A joke!..)
* CM tools-agnostic containers build pipelines
* Building images from sources but ship only artifacts w/o build deps
* No entry points magic in build pipeline for containers images to be
spawned by COE platforms as apps.
* Rework components to support 12 factor apps requirements, e.g.
redirect to stdout/stderr only, do not use implicit communication
channels etc.
* Runtime only data driven approach (no j2 templates for build pipeline
please!)
and more things...

On 22.09.2016 16:49, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 22/09/16 10:09 -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> Flavio
>>
>> Please see below:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco 
>> wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
>>> OpenStack.
>>> More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for
>>> deploying
>>> OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in
>>> right now
>>> as
>>> part of the TripleO efforts.
>>>
>>> I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this
>>> team. In
>>> fact,
>>> TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
>>> deployment.
>>>
>>> I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to
>>> explore
>>> in
>>> more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
>>> both
>>> kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both
>>> projects
>>> have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some
>>> decisions.
>>>
>>> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd
>>> love to
>>> see
>>> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
>>> great
>>> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
>>> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd
>>> assume
>>> some
>>> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it
>>> if we
>>> work
>>> on this together.
>>>
>>> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be
>>> missing
>>> some
>>> history and/or context:
>>>
>>> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference
>>> architecture
>>> for
>>>  deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
>>> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with?
>>> Or would
>>> it
>>>  be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?
>>>
>>> The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
>>> architecture
>>> explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.
>>
>> At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
>> governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no
>> specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably
>> the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about
>> running openstack.
>>
>> Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any
>> public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely
>> don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share.
> 
> Yeah, I know all of the above, which is why I said I don't really care
> about the
> implementation detail of things. I think the knowledge the folks in
> fuel-ccp
> have and the knowledge folks in the kolla team have could produce a base
> knowledge for folks looking into deploying OpenStack on kubernetes.
> 
> It'd be great to see this happening and I'm sure teams would benefit
> from it
> too.
> 
> Flavio
> 
>>> Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this
>>> area,
>>> Flavio
>>>
>>> * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand
>>> better
>>> the
>>>  work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed
>>> .
>>> -- 
>>> @flaper87
>>> Flavio Percoco
>>>
>>> __
>>>
>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dims
>>
>> -- 
>> Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims
>>
>> __
>>
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> Unsubscribe:
>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 22/09/16 10:49 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:

So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does
that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world
data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well
researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions.
We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around
it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains.


Awesome input, thanks.


As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to
take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical
debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best
approach.


I wonder if we can start writing these assumptions down and update them as we
go. I don't expect you to do it, I'm happy to help with this. We could put it in
kolla-k8s docs if that makes sense to other kolla-k8s folks.

I'll probably start pinging you guys on IRC with questions so I can help writing
this down.


There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain
features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves
them on their side, that will affect decision on our side.


Thanks a lot, Michal. This is indeed the kind of info I was looking for and
where I'd love to start from.

Flavio


Welcome to the Chaos;)

On 22 September 2016 at 09:53, Flavio Percoco  wrote:

On 22/09/16 09:39 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:


Flavio,

So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is
container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:)



I know this (although, if we really want to nitpick you could technically
use
something else than docker :P). In my email I mentioned that I'm interested
in
documenting how one would deploy OpenStack on kubernetes, which is likely
different from how you'd deploy OpenStack on docker (or any other container
runtime).


Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla
community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our
session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at
https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at
#openstack-kolla



Thakns for the info. As I mentioned in my email, I know kolla-kubernetes,
I've
reviewed some specs and patches, etc. I am, however, interested in something
different which is how you'd deploy OpenStack on k8s. Is kolla-kubernetes
doing
this the right way? Is there a better way to do it? These are the kind of
things
I'd love to document. I know some OPs have contributed to kolla-kubernetes
too.

Thanks for getting back,
Flavio




On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivas  wrote:


Flavio

Please see below:

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco 
wrote:


Greetings,

I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
OpenStack.
More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for
deploying
OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right
now
as
part of the TripleO efforts.

I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team.
In
fact,
TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
deployment.

I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to
explore
in
more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
both
kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both
projects
have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some
decisions.

As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love
to
see
our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
great
to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd
assume
some
folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if
we
work
on this together.

So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be
missing
some
history and/or context:

- Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference
architecture
for
 deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
- Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or
would
it
 be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?

The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
architecture
explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.



At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no
specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably
the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about
running openstack.

Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any
public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely
don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share.


Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 22/09/16 20:55 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:

Flavio,

Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large.

Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly.


It's probably me failing to communicate my intent or just the intent not being
good enough or worth it at all.


It came across to me as “How do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”.  
That was asked of me personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the 
Kolla project inside Red Hat.  Our initial effort at that activity failed.  
Instead we decided kubernetes wasn’t ready for trailblazing in this space and 
used a far more mature project (Ansible) to solve the “OpenStack in Containers” 
problems and build from there.

We have since expanded our scope to re-solve the “How do I blaze a trail for 
Openstack on Kubernetes?” question since Kubernetes is now ready for this sort 
of trailblazing.  Fuel and several other folks decided to create derived works 
of the Kolla community’s innovations in this area.  I would contend that Fuel 
didn’t need to behave in such a way because the Kolla community is open, 
friendly, mature, diversely affiliated, has a reasonable philosophy and good 
set of principles as well as a strong leadership pipeline.

Rather than go blaze a trail when one already exists or create a derived work, 
why not increase your footprint in Kolla instead?  Red Hat has invested in 
Kolla for some time now, and their footprint hasn’t magically disappeared over 
night.   We will give you what you want within reasonable boundaries (the 
boundaries all open-source projects set of their contributors).  We also accept 
more work than the typical OpenStack project might, so it’s not like you will 
have to bring donuts into the office for every patch you merge into Kolla.

As to your more direct question of reference architecture, that is a totally 
loaded term that I’ll leave untouched.

To answer your question of “Does Kolla have a set of best practices” the answer 
is yes in kolla-ansible and kolla itself and strongly forming set of best 
practices in kolla-kubernetes.


As I mentioned in my email, I don't really care about the implementation right
now. I'm not trying to change the current teams, goals, or anything. I would go
as far as saying that the acknowledgement of the existing teams in my original
email was merely a way to identify a set of teams that might be interested in
writing this reference architecture.

Is it a loaded term? Maybe, is this point relevant for my original question? I'd
say no. It doesn't matter what we call this, not to me, not right now.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate your
input. Unfortunately, I think you addressed my email from the wrong angle as I'm
a step (or many steps) early from doing any kind of implementation and I tried
to be clear about this in my original email.

I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I
asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the
"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I
run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with
PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in
the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage
architecture.

You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and
start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something
written already.

Thanks for your email,
Flavio


Regards
-steve



On 9/22/16, 4:04 AM, "Flavio Percoco"  wrote:

   Greetings,

   I've recently started looking into the container technologies around 
OpenStack.
   More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying
   OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now 
as
   part of the TripleO efforts.

   I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In 
fact,
   TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
   deployment.

   I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore 
in
   more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both
   kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects
   have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.

   As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to 
see
   our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be 
great
   to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
   kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume 
some
   folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we 
work
   on this together.

   So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing 
some
   history and/or 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Steven Dake (stdake)]

Flavio,

Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large.

Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly.  It came across to me as “How 
do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”.  That was asked of me 
personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the Kolla project inside 
Red Hat.  Our initial effort at that activity failed.  Instead we decided 
kubernetes wasn’t ready for trailblazing in this space and used a far more 
mature project (Ansible) to solve the “OpenStack in Containers” problems and 
build from there.

We have since expanded our scope to re-solve the “How do I blaze a trail for 
Openstack on Kubernetes?” question since Kubernetes is now ready for this sort 
of trailblazing.  Fuel and several other folks decided to create derived works 
of the Kolla community’s innovations in this area.  I would contend that Fuel 
didn’t need to behave in such a way because the Kolla community is open, 
friendly, mature, diversely affiliated, has a reasonable philosophy and good 
set of principles as well as a strong leadership pipeline.

Rather than go blaze a trail when one already exists or create a derived work, 
why not increase your footprint in Kolla instead?  Red Hat has invested in 
Kolla for some time now, and their footprint hasn’t magically disappeared over 
night.   We will give you what you want within reasonable boundaries (the 
boundaries all open-source projects set of their contributors).  We also accept 
more work than the typical OpenStack project might, so it’s not like you will 
have to bring donuts into the office for every patch you merge into Kolla.

As to your more direct question of reference architecture, that is a totally 
loaded term that I’ll leave untouched.

To answer your question of “Does Kolla have a set of best practices” the answer 
is yes in kolla-ansible and kolla itself and strongly forming set of best 
practices in kolla-kubernetes.

Regards
-steve



On 9/22/16, 4:04 AM, "Flavio Percoco"  wrote:

Greetings,

I've recently started looking into the container technologies around 
OpenStack.
More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying
OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now 
as
part of the TripleO efforts.

I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In 
fact,
TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
deployment.

I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to 
explore in
more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with 
both
kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects
have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.

As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to 
see
our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be 
great
to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume 
some
folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we 
work
on this together.

So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing 
some
history and/or context:

- Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture 
for
  deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
- Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or 
would it
  be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?

The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference 
architecture
explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area,
Flavio

* thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand 
better the
  work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed
.
-- 
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco



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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Michał Jastrzębski]

So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does
that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world
data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well
researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions.
We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around
it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains.

As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to
take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical
debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best
approach.

There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain
features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves
them on their side, that will affect decision on our side.

Welcome to the Chaos;)

On 22 September 2016 at 09:53, Flavio Percoco  wrote:
> On 22/09/16 09:39 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:
>>
>> Flavio,
>>
>> So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is
>> container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:)
>
>
> I know this (although, if we really want to nitpick you could technically
> use
> something else than docker :P). In my email I mentioned that I'm interested
> in
> documenting how one would deploy OpenStack on kubernetes, which is likely
> different from how you'd deploy OpenStack on docker (or any other container
> runtime).
>
>> Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla
>> community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our
>> session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at
>> https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at
>> #openstack-kolla
>
>
> Thakns for the info. As I mentioned in my email, I know kolla-kubernetes,
> I've
> reviewed some specs and patches, etc. I am, however, interested in something
> different which is how you'd deploy OpenStack on k8s. Is kolla-kubernetes
> doing
> this the right way? Is there a better way to do it? These are the kind of
> things
> I'd love to document. I know some OPs have contributed to kolla-kubernetes
> too.
>
> Thanks for getting back,
> Flavio
>
>
>
>> On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivas  wrote:
>>>
>>> Flavio
>>>
>>> Please see below:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco 
>>> wrote:

 Greetings,

 I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
 OpenStack.
 More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for
 deploying
 OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right
 now
 as
 part of the TripleO efforts.

 I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team.
 In
 fact,
 TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
 deployment.

 I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to
 explore
 in
 more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
 both
 kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both
 projects
 have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some
 decisions.

 As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love
 to
 see
 our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
 great
 to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
 kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd
 assume
 some
 folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if
 we
 work
 on this together.

 So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be
 missing
 some
 history and/or context:

 - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference
 architecture
 for
  deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
 - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or
 would
 it
  be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?

 The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
 architecture
 explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.
>>>
>>>
>>> At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
>>> governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no
>>> specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably
>>> the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about
>>> running openstack.
>>>
>>> Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any
>>> public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely
>>> don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share.
>>>
 Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this
 area,
 Flavio

 * thanks to all fuel and 

Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 22/09/16 09:39 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:

Flavio,

So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is
container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:)


I know this (although, if we really want to nitpick you could technically use
something else than docker :P). In my email I mentioned that I'm interested in
documenting how one would deploy OpenStack on kubernetes, which is likely
different from how you'd deploy OpenStack on docker (or any other container
runtime).


Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla
community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our
session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at
https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at
#openstack-kolla


Thakns for the info. As I mentioned in my email, I know kolla-kubernetes, I've
reviewed some specs and patches, etc. I am, however, interested in something
different which is how you'd deploy OpenStack on k8s. Is kolla-kubernetes doing
this the right way? Is there a better way to do it? These are the kind of things
I'd love to document. I know some OPs have contributed to kolla-kubernetes too.

Thanks for getting back,
Flavio



On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivas  wrote:

Flavio

Please see below:

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco  wrote:

Greetings,

I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
OpenStack.
More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying
OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now
as
part of the TripleO efforts.

I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In
fact,
TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
deployment.

I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore
in
more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
both
kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects
have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.

As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to
see
our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
great
to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume
some
folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we
work
on this together.

So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing
some
history and/or context:

- Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture
for
 deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
- Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would
it
 be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?

The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
architecture
explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.


At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no
specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably
the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about
running openstack.

Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any
public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely
don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share.


Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area,
Flavio

* thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better
the
 work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed
.
--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco

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Thanks,
Dims

--
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Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

On 22/09/16 10:09 -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote:

Flavio

Please see below:

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco  wrote:

Greetings,

I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
OpenStack.
More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying
OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now
as
part of the TripleO efforts.

I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In
fact,
TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
deployment.

I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore
in
more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
both
kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects
have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.

As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to
see
our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
great
to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume
some
folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we
work
on this together.

So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing
some
history and/or context:

- Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture
for
 deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
- Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would
it
 be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?

The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
architecture
explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.


At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no
specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably
the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about
running openstack.

Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any
public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely
don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share.


Yeah, I know all of the above, which is why I said I don't really care about the
implementation detail of things. I think the knowledge the folks in fuel-ccp
have and the knowledge folks in the kolla team have could produce a base
knowledge for folks looking into deploying OpenStack on kubernetes.

It'd be great to see this happening and I'm sure teams would benefit from it
too.

Flavio


Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area,
Flavio

* thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better
the
 work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed
.
--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco

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Thanks,
Dims

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Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Michał Jastrzębski]

Flavio,

So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is
container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:)

Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla
community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our
session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at
https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at
#openstack-kolla

On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivas  wrote:
> Flavio
>
> Please see below:
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco  wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
>> OpenStack.
>> More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying
>> OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now
>> as
>> part of the TripleO efforts.
>>
>> I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In
>> fact,
>> TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
>> deployment.
>>
>> I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore
>> in
>> more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
>> both
>> kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects
>> have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.
>>
>> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to
>> see
>> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
>> great
>> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
>> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume
>> some
>> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we
>> work
>> on this together.
>>
>> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing
>> some
>> history and/or context:
>>
>> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture
>> for
>>  deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
>> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would
>> it
>>  be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?
>>
>> The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
>> architecture
>> explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.
>
> At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
> governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no
> specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably
> the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about
> running openstack.
>
> Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any
> public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely
> don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share.
>
>> Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area,
>> Flavio
>>
>> * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better
>> the
>>  work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed
>> .
>> --
>> @flaper87
>> Flavio Percoco
>>
>> __
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>> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>
>
> Thanks,
> Dims
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Davanum Srinivas]

Flavio

Please see below:

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco  wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I've recently started looking into the container technologies around
> OpenStack.
> More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying
> OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now
> as
> part of the TripleO efforts.
>
> I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In
> fact,
> TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
> deployment.
>
> I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore
> in
> more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with
> both
> kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects
> have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.
>
> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to
> see
> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be
> great
> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume
> some
> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we
> work
> on this together.
>
> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing
> some
> history and/or context:
>
> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture
> for
>  deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would
> it
>  be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?
>
> The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference
> architecture
> explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.

At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under
governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no
specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably
the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about
running openstack.

Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any
public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely
don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share.

> Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area,
> Flavio
>
> * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better
> the
>  work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed
> .
> --
> @flaper87
> Flavio Percoco
>
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> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>

Thanks,
Dims

-- 
Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims

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[openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s

[Flavio Percoco]

Greetings,

I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack.
More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying
OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as
part of the TripleO efforts.

I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact,
TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute
deployment.

I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in
more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both
kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects
have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions.

As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see
our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great
to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on
kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some
folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work
on this together.

So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some
history and/or context:

- Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for
 deploying OpenStack on kubernetes?
- Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it
 be better to hijack one of kolla meetings?

The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference architecture
explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area,
Flavio

* thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better the
 work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed
.
--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


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