Re: [PAYCO] Re: Festive Message

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

0749226361

On 20 Jan 2017 07:40, "'tembelani xundu' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress"
 wrote:

> Can I get your number Poqo. You can sms it or whatsupp it to me
> 0741531525/0731531525
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 2:26 PM, sipho mnguni <
> sipho.samang...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> people will come and go but the PAC will remain.therefore i urge the
> members to remain focus to the cause and when the moment arrive we must be
> in the perfect balance and correct our mistakes.Our first port of call is
> to go to the masses and assume responsibilities which are overlooked by
> those at helm of this tree that is rooted from the african soil.2 we need
> to orbserve our calander.3 inclusive congress
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> M'Afrika Maoka
>
> The path to rebuild the PAC is depended on defactionalising the PAC and
> forging principled unity, this is the only logical path to arrest what some
> perceive as PAC disintegration and thrown into political oblivion.
>
> All members inclusive interbranch regional and Provincial meetings should
> be organised on regular basis to defactionalise the PAC from the bottom up
> aiming to forge principled unity and implement the 1959 Africanist
> manifesto.
>
> All public representatives should not be replaced and they should complete
> their terms and encouraged to work with all PAC members and branches and
> component structures.
>
> All component structures should be operate within their respective
> constitutions and abide by PAC Constitution adaoptedin GaMatlala Tompi
> Seleke Congress
>
> Moving forward, Unite and Rally the Afrikans masses to overthrow white
> supremacy and capitalism stands as a fundamental daunting task for every
> PAC member to action 24 hours and 7 days. 1959 Afrikanist Manifesto is the
> crystal political mandates.
>
> 2019 PAC must Govern only a united revolutionary PAC can realise this
> objective.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah Kgagudi
>
> On 23 Dec 2016 06:25, "Richard Maoka"  wrote:
>
>
> Kindly receive the attached
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Maoka RN
>
>
> --
> --
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>
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> 
>
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> 
>
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>
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Re: [PAYCO] Re: Festive Message

['tembelani xundu' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

Can I get your number Poqo. You can sms it or whatsupp it to me 
0741531525/0731531525
 

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 2:26 PM, sipho mnguni 
 wrote:
 

 people will come and go but the PAC will remain.therefore i urge the members 
to remain focus to the cause and when the moment arrive we must be in the 
perfect balance and correct our mistakes.Our first port of call is to go to the 
masses and assume responsibilities which are overlooked by those at helm of 
this tree that is rooted from the african soil.2 we need to orbserve our 
calander.3 inclusive congress 
On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  
wrote:

M'Afrika Maoka
The path to rebuild the PAC is depended on defactionalising the PAC and forging 
principled unity, this is the only logical path to arrest what some perceive as 
PAC disintegration and thrown into political oblivion. 
All members inclusive interbranch regional and Provincial meetings should be 
organised on regular basis to defactionalise the PAC from the bottom up aiming 
to forge principled unity and implement the 1959 Africanist manifesto.
All public representatives should not be replaced and they should complete 
their terms and encouraged to work with all PAC members and branches and 
component structures. 
All component structures should be operate within their respective 
constitutions and abide by PAC Constitution adaoptedin GaMatlala Tompi Seleke 
Congress 
Moving forward, Unite and Rally the Afrikans masses to overthrow white 
supremacy and capitalism stands as a fundamental daunting task for every PAC 
member to action 24 hours and 7 days. 1959 Afrikanist Manifesto is the crystal 
political mandates.  
2019 PAC must Govern only a united revolutionary PAC can realise this objective.
Shango lashuNkrumah Kgagudi

On 23 Dec 2016 06:25, "Richard Maoka"  wrote:

 
Kindly receive the attached
Kind Regards
Maoka RN

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Re: [PAYCO] Re: Festive Message

[sipho mnguni]

people will come and go but the PAC will remain.therefore i urge the
members to remain focus to the cause and when the moment arrive we must be
in the perfect balance and correct our mistakes.Our first port of call is
to go to the masses and assume responsibilities which are overlooked by
those at helm of this tree that is rooted from the african soil.2 we need
to orbserve our calander.3 inclusive congress

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> M'Afrika Maoka
>
> The path to rebuild the PAC is depended on defactionalising the PAC and
> forging principled unity, this is the only logical path to arrest what some
> perceive as PAC disintegration and thrown into political oblivion.
>
> All members inclusive interbranch regional and Provincial meetings should
> be organised on regular basis to defactionalise the PAC from the bottom up
> aiming to forge principled unity and implement the 1959 Africanist
> manifesto.
>
> All public representatives should not be replaced and they should complete
> their terms and encouraged to work with all PAC members and branches and
> component structures.
>
> All component structures should be operate within their respective
> constitutions and abide by PAC Constitution adaoptedin GaMatlala Tompi
> Seleke Congress
>
> Moving forward, Unite and Rally the Afrikans masses to overthrow white
> supremacy and capitalism stands as a fundamental daunting task for every
> PAC member to action 24 hours and 7 days. 1959 Afrikanist Manifesto is the
> crystal political mandates.
>
> 2019 PAC must Govern only a united revolutionary PAC can realise this
> objective.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah Kgagudi
>
> On 23 Dec 2016 06:25, "Richard Maoka"  wrote:
>
>
> Kindly receive the attached
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Maoka RN
>
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
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Re: [PAYCO] Invitation: MEN ON THE MOUNTAIN (a Pan-Afrikan "initiation" for Brothers)

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Izwe lethu! Brother Buntu

On 16 Sep 2016 09:13, "BabaBuntu"  wrote:

> *M'Afrika,*
>
> eBukhosini Solutions is inviting all Afrikan Brothers to
>
> *MEN ON THE MOUNTAIN*
>
> *1st October (all day)*
>
> *Johannesburg, Gauteng*
>
>
> See FB link here: https://web.facebook.com/events/1154566634600248/
>
>
>
> MEN ON THE MOUNTAIN: A Day To Remember!
>
>
>
> Saturday 1 October 2016 (all day)
>
> Information: Pitsi Ragophala 074 690 4012, pi...@ebukhosinisolutions.co.za
>
>
>
> SHABAKA – MEN OF AFRIKA invites to an all-day session for Afrikan Men
> (18+) on Black Male Self Development, sexuality, reproduction, marriage and
> relationships from a Pan-Afrikan Male perspective. Basically, there are no
> taboos!
>
>
>
> MEN ON THE MOUNTAIN takes place outside in nature, is based on
> Afrikan-Centred views and is for Afrikan Men who seek to understand
> themselves and how to build a powerful relationship with an Afrikan woman
> and stay devoted to the empowerment of Afrikan Families/Communities. The
> session is coordinated by Warrior Men from SHABAKA - MEN OF AFRIKA.
>
>
>
> If you are interested, send your email address, name and age – and you
> will receive a personal invitation with more details. Note that the session
> is informed by Pan-Afrikan cultural philosophy and practice, but not linked
> to any religious or political institution. It is suitable for ALL Black men
> of all age groups, over 18 years, who are open to Pan-Afrikan ideas.
>
>
> Izwe Lethu iAfrika!
>
>
> i...@ebukhosinisolutions.co.za
>
> SHABAKA – MEN OF AFRIKA / eBukhosini Solutions
>
> www.ebukhosinisolutions.co.za
>
>
>
> --
> Afrikan Salutations, BABA BUNTU
> Executive Director
> Johannesburg
>
> Our web: www.ebukhosinisolutions.co.za
> Our Facebook: www.facebook.com/ebukhosinisolutions/
> My YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/bababuntu
> My Skype: baba.buntu
>
>
> --
> --
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>
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>
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>
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>
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Re: [PAYCO] APLA IMBIZO

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

APLA National Imbizo

The APLA National Imbizo will be held on:

Date: 01 October 2016
Place: Bloemfontein
Venue: is available and will be announced in due course.

Those who wish to make accommodation arrangements, please make sure that
you make bookings in Bloemfontein Central, not far from Mimosa Mall.

This is a call to all former APLA forces to come reminisce and where
practical see how best can we help each other going forward.

For more details contact Ntsiki Kungwayo aka Nosipho Gaca @ 082 224 1686
during working hours or send an email to ntsikikungw...@gmail.com

Please share

On 14 Sep 2016 18:54, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
> Meeting is where issues are discussed and resolved.
>
> The point still stands. There are two PAC NEC structures by default as we
> speak. we cannot deny that. They are product of PAC "conference"  whether
> the status of those conferences is debatable, or not. That is the reason
> parliament through IEC accepted Mphahlele as the PAC President by default.
> Parliament later recognized Mphethi and later Mbinda as PAC President based
> on court rulings. Whether such decisions were right or wrong is another
> issue all together. Courts give structures legality, not legitimate. There
> is difference legality and legitimacy. It is only conferences / congresses
> that give legitimacy to party structures elected constitutionally (in line
> with the PAC Constitution).
>
> The top-down approach is different from the approach I proposed. It works
> outside the PAC Constitution, not in line with the PAC Constitution. My
> proposal is the three structures should be engaged to get their buy-in to
> convene congress jointly. If Mbinda's faction pulls out of the talks but
> all other PAC structures (including its component structures eg, APLAMVA,
> PAYCO and PASMA) agree to  continue with the talks and convening of the PAC
> Special Conference, the conference can continue. Majority rules even in
> political parties. PAC belongs to all PAC members, not to Mbinda faction
> only. PAC cannot be left to the mercy of one individual or one faction /
> group.
>
> On the issue of attending ongoing unity conferences or meetings at
> provincial and regional levels, I cannot attend them. There is no PAM
> decision mandated me to attend such meetings. As a principled, loyal PAM
> member  I can only attend meetings outside of PAM if I am mandated to do so
> by PAM to represent it in those conferences / meetings, not myself.
> Currently, there are PAM members mandated to attend unity talks on behalf
> of PAM, not me. PAM made the decision consciously.
>
> My input in this payco group to unity talks' approaches is personal. It is
> not the official PAM position. it is just an advice to comrades to look at
> a big picture when dealing with the unity talks. I have the right to do so
> especially that I am not in the PAM NEC /PEC/REC/BEC at the moment. I just
> know that PAM has no precondition to unity talks or attendance of unity
> meetings / conferences at the moment.
>
> Izwe Lethu!
>
>
>
>
>
> On 14 September 2016 at 18:01, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cde Chargein
>>
>> Best we meet and discuss these approaches, some parts of your arguments
>> hold other have their own defects and self contradictory. And, no court
>> ruled in favour of Mbinda-Moloto as legitimate national leadership of PAC,
>> the same applies to the parallel Letlapa's NEC. The latest judgement refers
>> Mbinda-Moloto NEC as a line of communication for or on IEC related matters,
>> elections had passed consequently their elections role has lapsed.
>>
>> If both parallel NECs are illegitimate as per PAC Constitution then an
>> illegitimate structure can't be entrusted pursue legitimate constitutional
>> roles.
>>
>> If Mbinda-Moloto NECs and Letlapa's NEC reject a reconciliatory approach
>> of a Joint Committee then what? This  once again becomes an issue for PAC
>> members to explore sustainable alternative paths to forge principled unity.
>> Remember what you are proposing was tried and done by Unity Coordinating
>> Committee led by Joe Thloloe, Dinners and other party Veterans the same
>> unity process is at suspense as we speak because Mbinda-Moloto leadership
>> faction rejected the same unity approach you proposing. While PAM
>> delegation and Letlapa's NEC leadership faction accepted the unity call.
>>
>> Lastly let's not raise leadership factions to be demigods to arrest and
>> frustrate the unity of PAC with impunity.
>>
>> Party Membership must close ranks with party Veterans and pursue the
>> programme to forge principled unity of the PAC;, PAM and any leadership
>> faction which embraces this call of principled party Unity must also close
>> ranks and march ahead.
>>
>> Shango lashu
>>
>> Nkrumah
>>
>> On 14 Sep 2016 17:30, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is: How do you dissolve the two contested PAC NEC structures
>>> not in a conference / congress, the highes

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Meeting is where issues are discussed and resolved.

The point still stands. There are two PAC NEC structures by default as we
speak. we cannot deny that. They are product of PAC "conference"  whether
the status of those conferences is debatable, or not. That is the reason
parliament through IEC accepted Mphahlele as the PAC President by default.
Parliament later recognized Mphethi and later Mbinda as PAC President based
on court rulings. Whether such decisions were right or wrong is another
issue all together. Courts give structures legality, not legitimate. There
is difference legality and legitimacy. It is only conferences / congresses
that give legitimacy to party structures elected constitutionally (in line
with the PAC Constitution).

The top-down approach is different from the approach I proposed. It works
outside the PAC Constitution, not in line with the PAC Constitution. My
proposal is the three structures should be engaged to get their buy-in to
convene congress jointly. If Mbinda's faction pulls out of the talks but
all other PAC structures (including its component structures eg, APLAMVA,
PAYCO and PASMA) agree to  continue with the talks and convening of the PAC
Special Conference, the conference can continue. Majority rules even in
political parties. PAC belongs to all PAC members, not to Mbinda faction
only. PAC cannot be left to the mercy of one individual or one faction /
group.

On the issue of attending ongoing unity conferences or meetings at
provincial and regional levels, I cannot attend them. There is no PAM
decision mandated me to attend such meetings. As a principled, loyal PAM
member  I can only attend meetings outside of PAM if I am mandated to do so
by PAM to represent it in those conferences / meetings, not myself.
Currently, there are PAM members mandated to attend unity talks on behalf
of PAM, not me. PAM made the decision consciously.

My input in this payco group to unity talks' approaches is personal. It is
not the official PAM position. it is just an advice to comrades to look at
a big picture when dealing with the unity talks. I have the right to do so
especially that I am not in the PAM NEC /PEC/REC/BEC at the moment. I just
know that PAM has no precondition to unity talks or attendance of unity
meetings / conferences at the moment.

Izwe Lethu!





On 14 September 2016 at 18:01, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Chargein
>
> Best we meet and discuss these approaches, some parts of your arguments
> hold other have their own defects and self contradictory. And, no court
> ruled in favour of Mbinda-Moloto as legitimate national leadership of PAC,
> the same applies to the parallel Letlapa's NEC. The latest judgement refers
> Mbinda-Moloto NEC as a line of communication for or on IEC related matters,
> elections had passed consequently their elections role has lapsed.
>
> If both parallel NECs are illegitimate as per PAC Constitution then an
> illegitimate structure can't be entrusted pursue legitimate constitutional
> roles.
>
> If Mbinda-Moloto NECs and Letlapa's NEC reject a reconciliatory approach
> of a Joint Committee then what? This  once again becomes an issue for PAC
> members to explore sustainable alternative paths to forge principled unity.
> Remember what you are proposing was tried and done by Unity Coordinating
> Committee led by Joe Thloloe, Dinners and other party Veterans the same
> unity process is at suspense as we speak because Mbinda-Moloto leadership
> faction rejected the same unity approach you proposing. While PAM
> delegation and Letlapa's NEC leadership faction accepted the unity call.
>
> Lastly let's not raise leadership factions to be demigods to arrest and
> frustrate the unity of PAC with impunity.
>
> Party Membership must close ranks with party Veterans and pursue the
> programme to forge principled unity of the PAC;, PAM and any leadership
> faction which embraces this call of principled party Unity must also close
> ranks and march ahead.
>
> Shango lashu
>
> Nkrumah
>
> On 14 Sep 2016 17:30, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> The problem is: How do you dissolve the two contested PAC NEC structures
>> not in a conference / congress, the highest decision-making bodies of the
>> Party, as per the PAC Constitution? How do you convene the properly
>> constituted PAC National Conference / Congress in line with the PAC
>> Constitution? Which clause (s) in the PAC Constitution will be followed to
>> establish the new structure constitutionally and also have the powers to
>> convene the PAC National Conference or Congress in line with the PAC
>> Constitution? According to the PAC Constitution, it is only the PAC NEC has
>> powers to convene the PAC National Conference / Congress, not other
>> structure?(Refer to the PAC Constitution). All PAC activities are only
>> guided by the PAC Basic Documents, nothing more, nothing less. Hence, the
>> need to get the buy-in from the existing NEC structures as constitutionally
>> recogni

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

A provincial unity meeting is planned for the October 2015, I encourage you
attend provincial meetings and also there will be Vaal Regional meeting
somewhere in October.

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

On 14 Sep 2016 18:01, "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi"  wrote:

> Cde Chargein
>
> Best we meet and discuss these approaches, some parts of your arguments
> hold other have their own defects and self contradictory. And, no court
> ruled in favour of Mbinda-Moloto as legitimate national leadership of PAC,
> the same applies to the parallel Letlapa's NEC. The latest judgement refers
> Mbinda-Moloto NEC as a line of communication for or on IEC related matters,
> elections had passed consequently their elections role has lapsed.
>
> If both parallel NECs are illegitimate as per PAC Constitution then an
> illegitimate structure can't be entrusted pursue legitimate constitutional
> roles.
>
> If Mbinda-Moloto NECs and Letlapa's NEC reject a reconciliatory approach
> of a Joint Committee then what? This  once again becomes an issue for PAC
> members to explore sustainable alternative paths to forge principled unity.
> Remember what you are proposing was tried and done by Unity Coordinating
> Committee led by Joe Thloloe, Dinners and other party Veterans the same
> unity process is at suspense as we speak because Mbinda-Moloto leadership
> faction rejected the same unity approach you proposing. While PAM
> delegation and Letlapa's NEC leadership faction accepted the unity call.
>
> Lastly let's not raise leadership factions to be demigods to arrest and
> frustrate the unity of PAC with impunity.
>
> Party Membership must close ranks with party Veterans and pursue the
> programme to forge principled unity of the PAC;, PAM and any leadership
> faction which embraces this call of principled party Unity must also close
> ranks and march ahead.
>
> Shango lashu
>
> Nkrumah
>
> On 14 Sep 2016 17:30, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> The problem is: How do you dissolve the two contested PAC NEC structures
>> not in a conference / congress, the highest decision-making bodies of the
>> Party, as per the PAC Constitution? How do you convene the properly
>> constituted PAC National Conference / Congress in line with the PAC
>> Constitution? Which clause (s) in the PAC Constitution will be followed to
>> establish the new structure constitutionally and also have the powers to
>> convene the PAC National Conference or Congress in line with the PAC
>> Constitution? According to the PAC Constitution, it is only the PAC NEC has
>> powers to convene the PAC National Conference / Congress, not other
>> structure?(Refer to the PAC Constitution). All PAC activities are only
>> guided by the PAC Basic Documents, nothing more, nothing less. Hence, the
>> need to get the buy-in from the existing NEC structures as constitutionally
>> recognized entities elected in a PAC "Conferences" because they constitute
>> PAC National leadership even by default. I used "Conferences" to emphasize
>> the fact that that is so even if their status is debatable within the PAC.
>> Remember, the decisions of courts of laws are not in line with and outside
>> the PAC Constitution. They cannot be reached in violation of the PAC
>> Constitution and then be binding to PAC members. Mbinda-led NEC may be
>> legally recognised as PAC NEC but may at the same time unconstitutional and
>> illlegimate within the PAC because it was elected in violation of the PAC
>> Constitution. The same may apply to Mphahlele-led NEC. It is only a
>> properly constituted PAC Conference / Conference can make such a decision,
>> not courts or law or some kangaroo courts in some corners. Hence, the need
>> to convene a properly constituted PAC Conference / Congress jointly
>> organised by, at least, the two PAC NECs.
>>
>> Comrade, let's remember: two wrongs do not make a right. We cannot
>> correct the wrongs of others through our own wrong ways. The right way to
>> run PAC affairs is to do everything in line with the PAC Basic Documents,
>> especially the Constitution in this case. Any decisions (resolutions) taken
>> outside the PAC national conferences / congresses are not PAC decisions
>> (resolutions). Party decisions affecting branches are taken at branch
>> meetings or AGMs, those affecting regional  or provincial structures are
>> taken at Regional or provincial conferences / congresses and also those
>> affecting national structures are taken at national conferences /
>> congresses as per the PAC Constitution as we know it. Any decisions taken
>> not in line with the PAC Constitution are not PAC decisions / resolutions.
>>
>> This simply means the bottom-up approach will be in violation of the PAC
>> Constitution and as such will be unconstitutional. That is the reason I
>> said there is no logic in this approach as far as PAC processes and
>> constitution are concerned. Its result will not be different from the
>> Top-down approach. Both approaches are recipes for a breakaway from 

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

Best we meet and discuss these approaches, some parts of your arguments
hold other have their own defects and self contradictory. And, no court
ruled in favour of Mbinda-Moloto as legitimate national leadership of PAC,
the same applies to the parallel Letlapa's NEC. The latest judgement refers
Mbinda-Moloto NEC as a line of communication for or on IEC related matters,
elections had passed consequently their elections role has lapsed.

If both parallel NECs are illegitimate as per PAC Constitution then an
illegitimate structure can't be entrusted pursue legitimate constitutional
roles.

If Mbinda-Moloto NECs and Letlapa's NEC reject a reconciliatory approach of
a Joint Committee then what? This  once again becomes an issue for PAC
members to explore sustainable alternative paths to forge principled unity.
Remember what you are proposing was tried and done by Unity Coordinating
Committee led by Joe Thloloe, Dinners and other party Veterans the same
unity process is at suspense as we speak because Mbinda-Moloto leadership
faction rejected the same unity approach you proposing. While PAM
delegation and Letlapa's NEC leadership faction accepted the unity call.

Lastly let's not raise leadership factions to be demigods to arrest and
frustrate the unity of PAC with impunity.

Party Membership must close ranks with party Veterans and pursue the
programme to forge principled unity of the PAC;, PAM and any leadership
faction which embraces this call of principled party Unity must also close
ranks and march ahead.

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

On 14 Sep 2016 17:30, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> The problem is: How do you dissolve the two contested PAC NEC structures
> not in a conference / congress, the highest decision-making bodies of the
> Party, as per the PAC Constitution? How do you convene the properly
> constituted PAC National Conference / Congress in line with the PAC
> Constitution? Which clause (s) in the PAC Constitution will be followed to
> establish the new structure constitutionally and also have the powers to
> convene the PAC National Conference or Congress in line with the PAC
> Constitution? According to the PAC Constitution, it is only the PAC NEC has
> powers to convene the PAC National Conference / Congress, not other
> structure?(Refer to the PAC Constitution). All PAC activities are only
> guided by the PAC Basic Documents, nothing more, nothing less. Hence, the
> need to get the buy-in from the existing NEC structures as constitutionally
> recognized entities elected in a PAC "Conferences" because they constitute
> PAC National leadership even by default. I used "Conferences" to emphasize
> the fact that that is so even if their status is debatable within the PAC.
> Remember, the decisions of courts of laws are not in line with and outside
> the PAC Constitution. They cannot be reached in violation of the PAC
> Constitution and then be binding to PAC members. Mbinda-led NEC may be
> legally recognised as PAC NEC but may at the same time unconstitutional and
> illlegimate within the PAC because it was elected in violation of the PAC
> Constitution. The same may apply to Mphahlele-led NEC. It is only a
> properly constituted PAC Conference / Conference can make such a decision,
> not courts or law or some kangaroo courts in some corners. Hence, the need
> to convene a properly constituted PAC Conference / Congress jointly
> organised by, at least, the two PAC NECs.
>
> Comrade, let's remember: two wrongs do not make a right. We cannot correct
> the wrongs of others through our own wrong ways. The right way to run PAC
> affairs is to do everything in line with the PAC Basic Documents,
> especially the Constitution in this case. Any decisions (resolutions) taken
> outside the PAC national conferences / congresses are not PAC decisions
> (resolutions). Party decisions affecting branches are taken at branch
> meetings or AGMs, those affecting regional  or provincial structures are
> taken at Regional or provincial conferences / congresses and also those
> affecting national structures are taken at national conferences /
> congresses as per the PAC Constitution as we know it. Any decisions taken
> not in line with the PAC Constitution are not PAC decisions / resolutions.
>
> This simply means the bottom-up approach will be in violation of the PAC
> Constitution and as such will be unconstitutional. That is the reason I
> said there is no logic in this approach as far as PAC processes and
> constitution are concerned. Its result will not be different from the
> Top-down approach. Both approaches are recipes for a breakaway from the PAC
> because their outcomes will not be PAC structures as per the PAC
> Constitution.The current leadership will be justify to expel the organisers
> of those dubious conferences / congresses as rebels who are destined to
> damage the image of PAC.  Both approaches (Bottom-up / Top-dpwn) will reach
> political cul-del-sac very soon. Their results will suffer from

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

The problem is: How do you dissolve the two contested PAC NEC structures
not in a conference / congress, the highest decision-making bodies of the
Party, as per the PAC Constitution? How do you convene the properly
constituted PAC National Conference / Congress in line with the PAC
Constitution? Which clause (s) in the PAC Constitution will be followed to
establish the new structure constitutionally and also have the powers to
convene the PAC National Conference or Congress in line with the PAC
Constitution? According to the PAC Constitution, it is only the PAC NEC has
powers to convene the PAC National Conference / Congress, not other
structure?(Refer to the PAC Constitution). All PAC activities are only
guided by the PAC Basic Documents, nothing more, nothing less. Hence, the
need to get the buy-in from the existing NEC structures as constitutionally
recognized entities elected in a PAC "Conferences" because they constitute
PAC National leadership even by default. I used "Conferences" to emphasize
the fact that that is so even if their status is debatable within the PAC.
Remember, the decisions of courts of laws are not in line with and outside
the PAC Constitution. They cannot be reached in violation of the PAC
Constitution and then be binding to PAC members. Mbinda-led NEC may be
legally recognised as PAC NEC but may at the same time unconstitutional and
illlegimate within the PAC because it was elected in violation of the PAC
Constitution. The same may apply to Mphahlele-led NEC. It is only a
properly constituted PAC Conference / Conference can make such a decision,
not courts or law or some kangaroo courts in some corners. Hence, the need
to convene a properly constituted PAC Conference / Congress jointly
organised by, at least, the two PAC NECs.

Comrade, let's remember: two wrongs do not make a right. We cannot correct
the wrongs of others through our own wrong ways. The right way to run PAC
affairs is to do everything in line with the PAC Basic Documents,
especially the Constitution in this case. Any decisions (resolutions) taken
outside the PAC national conferences / congresses are not PAC decisions
(resolutions). Party decisions affecting branches are taken at branch
meetings or AGMs, those affecting regional  or provincial structures are
taken at Regional or provincial conferences / congresses and also those
affecting national structures are taken at national conferences /
congresses as per the PAC Constitution as we know it. Any decisions taken
not in line with the PAC Constitution are not PAC decisions / resolutions.

This simply means the bottom-up approach will be in violation of the PAC
Constitution and as such will be unconstitutional. That is the reason I
said there is no logic in this approach as far as PAC processes and
constitution are concerned. Its result will not be different from the
Top-down approach. Both approaches are recipes for a breakaway from the PAC
because their outcomes will not be PAC structures as per the PAC
Constitution.The current leadership will be justify to expel the organisers
of those dubious conferences / congresses as rebels who are destined to
damage the image of PAC.  Both approaches (Bottom-up / Top-dpwn) will reach
political cul-del-sac very soon. Their results will suffer from illegality,
unconstitutionality and illegitimacy.

I rest my case.

Izwe Lethu!





On 14 September 2016 at 13:19, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Comrade Chargein
>
> The two approaches are contradictory both can unfold simultaneously
> leading to a PAC UNITY National Conference, that is, Bottom-up and
> Dissolution of parallel NEC's the formation of a Joint Committee then PAC
> National Unity Conference.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah
>
> On 14 Sep 2016 09:40, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> Who calls the conference may be a major obstacle to my proposal but it
>> can be overcome through collective effort. The feasible solution is to
>> convene the special conference or congress jointly and the conference /
>> congress to be co-chared by the joint  / collective leadership of the three
>> NECs (two PAC NECS and PAM NEC). That is, the two PAC NECs and PAM NEC  to
>> come together and convene the conference / congress jointly. That is not
>> something new. After the PAC unbanning, the PAC Central Committee from
>> exile under the leadership of PAC Chairman Johnson Mlambo and PAM NEC
>> (representing PAC in the hone front) under the leadership of President
>> Clarence Makwetu convened the 2nd PAC Congress jointly to elect the
>> collective PAC leadership. Comrade Johnson Mlambo and other former PAC
>> leaders can advised the joint committee how to convene conference /
>> congress jointly from their experience. The joint committee may be composed
>> of two representives from two PAC factions and PAM e,g, presidents and
>> secretary=-generals of the three factions. Any arrangement can be decided
>> on.  Nothing is impossible.
>>
>> I know Mbinda-Moloto will try to

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Comrade Chargein

The two approaches are contradictory both can unfold simultaneously leading
to a PAC UNITY National Conference, that is, Bottom-up and Dissolution of
parallel NEC's the formation of a Joint Committee then PAC National Unity
Conference.

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

On 14 Sep 2016 09:40, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
> Who calls the conference may be a major obstacle to my proposal but it can
> be overcome through collective effort. The feasible solution is to convene
> the special conference or congress jointly and the conference / congress to
> be co-chared by the joint  / collective leadership of the three NECs (two
> PAC NECS and PAM NEC). That is, the two PAC NECs and PAM NEC  to come
> together and convene the conference / congress jointly. That is not
> something new. After the PAC unbanning, the PAC Central Committee from
> exile under the leadership of PAC Chairman Johnson Mlambo and PAM NEC
> (representing PAC in the hone front) under the leadership of President
> Clarence Makwetu convened the 2nd PAC Congress jointly to elect the
> collective PAC leadership. Comrade Johnson Mlambo and other former PAC
> leaders can advised the joint committee how to convene conference /
> congress jointly from their experience. The joint committee may be composed
> of two representives from two PAC factions and PAM e,g, presidents and
> secretary=-generals of the three factions. Any arrangement can be decided
> on.  Nothing is impossible.
>
> I know Mbinda-Moloto will try to resist the inclusion of Mphahlele's
> faction in the convening of the conference / congress. The truth is there
> can be no unity withiin the PAC without Mphahlele's faction. That we must
> admit it. We all need each other. Mbinda faction needs both PAM and
> Mphahlele's faction and vice-versa. I know many people are scared of
> Mphahlele as an individual for his consistence for what he believes in but
> they cannot wish him away from the PAC just like that. He is part and
> parcel of the PAC. He is an asset and liability of the PAC like Mabaso,
> Ntsie, Narius, Fihla, Mbinda, etc. We are products of PAC and no other
> political party. To wish us away from the PAC is wishful thinking. We will
> remain PAC inside or outside PAC. PAC must just learn how to live with us
> like Julius Malaema to the ANC  or else we will be a toothache to the PAC,
> both individually or collectively. That is a fact.
>
> Comrades, PAM has no preconditions before attending PAC Special unity
> Conference/Congress if we are invited accordingly and as long as we are
> invited by PAC, not PAC factions (both Mbinda and Mphahlele faction or even
> new PAC faction). We will definitely attend a properly organised PAC
> Special Conference / Congress as long it will be organiised in line with
> the PAC Constitution adopted before Qwaqwa Congress (at Tompie Seleka
> Congress) as that is undoctored PAC Constitution.  If PAC does not have it,
> we have it in our custody.
>
> Comrades, we are not scared to be swallowed by PAC leadership. We know
> what we stand for and what we expect for PAC unity to materialize.  We have
> the right to march out of any unity conference / congress if it is not what
> we expected or even later breakaway from the unholy marriage. We are not
> obliged to unite if we are not the like-minded.
>
> That is our position.
>
> Izwe Lethu!
>
> On 13 September 2016 at 18:57, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cde Chargein
>>
>> Conference convened by who, when there are parallel NEC's?
>>
>> Which Constitution become applicable to convene such a conference since
>> Mbinda-Moloto leadership faction follows it's own adopted in 2015 while
>> others follow GaMatlala 2000 Constitution?
>>
>> Will PAM accede to follow PAC protocols?
>>
>> Shango lashu
>>
>> Nkrumah
>>
>> On 13 Sep 2016 17:54, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>>
>>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>>
>>> i made my proposal in the document i drafted. I believe a special
>>> unity conference or congress should be convened to do wholistic
>>> introspextion and maximum self-criticism and ceiticism as a party,
>>> learn lessons from our successes and failures, take drastic
>>> resolutions to uproot factiomalism in the party, disband all factions
>>> and NEC structures elected based on factions, develop Party-building
>>> programme to unite the Party into a great party, establish collective
>>> leadership for collective responsibility, etc .
>>>
>>> On 13/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
>>> > Cde Chargein
>>> >
>>> > Point taken, then what's your proposal to defactionalise and forge
>>> > principled unity?
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> > Nkrumah
>>> >
>>> > On 13 Sep 2016 13:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Comrade Nkrumah
>>> >>
>>> >> Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.
>>> >>
>>> >> The explanation you gave do not assist
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>>> >> nrkgag...@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Cde

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Who calls the conference may be a major obstacle to my proposal but it can
be overcome through collective effort. The feasible solution is to convene
the special conference or congress jointly and the conference / congress to
be co-chared by the joint  / collective leadership of the three NECs (two
PAC NECS and PAM NEC). That is, the two PAC NECs and PAM NEC  to come
together and convene the conference / congress jointly. That is not
something new. After the PAC unbanning, the PAC Central Committee from
exile under the leadership of PAC Chairman Johnson Mlambo and PAM NEC
(representing PAC in the hone front) under the leadership of President
Clarence Makwetu convened the 2nd PAC Congress jointly to elect the
collective PAC leadership. Comrade Johnson Mlambo and other former PAC
leaders can advised the joint committee how to convene conference /
congress jointly from their experience. The joint committee may be composed
of two representives from two PAC factions and PAM e,g, presidents and
secretary=-generals of the three factions. Any arrangement can be decided
on.  Nothing is impossible.

I know Mbinda-Moloto will try to resist the inclusion of Mphahlele's
faction in the convening of the conference / congress. The truth is there
can be no unity withiin the PAC without Mphahlele's faction. That we must
admit it. We all need each other. Mbinda faction needs both PAM and
Mphahlele's faction and vice-versa. I know many people are scared of
Mphahlele as an individual for his consistence for what he believes in but
they cannot wish him away from the PAC just like that. He is part and
parcel of the PAC. He is an asset and liability of the PAC like Mabaso,
Ntsie, Narius, Fihla, Mbinda, etc. We are products of PAC and no other
political party. To wish us away from the PAC is wishful thinking. We will
remain PAC inside or outside PAC. PAC must just learn how to live with us
like Julius Malaema to the ANC  or else we will be a toothache to the PAC,
both individually or collectively. That is a fact.

Comrades, PAM has no preconditions before attending PAC Special unity
Conference/Congress if we are invited accordingly and as long as we are
invited by PAC, not PAC factions (both Mbinda and Mphahlele faction or even
new PAC faction). We will definitely attend a properly organised PAC
Special Conference / Congress as long it will be organiised in line with
the PAC Constitution adopted before Qwaqwa Congress (at Tompie Seleka
Congress) as that is undoctored PAC Constitution.  If PAC does not have it,
we have it in our custody.

Comrades, we are not scared to be swallowed by PAC leadership. We know what
we stand for and what we expect for PAC unity to materialize.  We have the
right to march out of any unity conference / congress if it is not what we
expected or even later breakaway from the unholy marriage. We are not
obliged to unite if we are not the like-minded.

That is our position.

Izwe Lethu!

On 13 September 2016 at 18:57, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Chargein
>
> Conference convened by who, when there are parallel NEC's?
>
> Which Constitution become applicable to convene such a conference since
> Mbinda-Moloto leadership faction follows it's own adopted in 2015 while
> others follow GaMatlala 2000 Constitution?
>
> Will PAM accede to follow PAC protocols?
>
> Shango lashu
>
> Nkrumah
>
> On 13 Sep 2016 17:54, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> i made my proposal in the document i drafted. I believe a special
>> unity conference or congress should be convened to do wholistic
>> introspextion and maximum self-criticism and ceiticism as a party,
>> learn lessons from our successes and failures, take drastic
>> resolutions to uproot factiomalism in the party, disband all factions
>> and NEC structures elected based on factions, develop Party-building
>> programme to unite the Party into a great party, establish collective
>> leadership for collective responsibility, etc .
>>
>> On 13/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
>> > Cde Chargein
>> >
>> > Point taken, then what's your proposal to defactionalise and forge
>> > principled unity?
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Nkrumah
>> >
>> > On 13 Sep 2016 13:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Comrade Nkrumah
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.
>> >>
>> >> The explanation you gave do not assist
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>> >> nrkgag...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Cde Chargin
>> >> >
>> >> > I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,
>> >> >
>> >> > Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an
>> >> > unity
>> >> > conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48
>> hours)
>> >> and
>> >> > also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may
>> lack
>> >> > a
>> >> > mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly
>> >> elitist
>> >> > since those with financia

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

Conference convened by who, when there are parallel NEC's?

Which Constitution become applicable to convene such a conference since
Mbinda-Moloto leadership faction follows it's own adopted in 2015 while
others follow GaMatlala 2000 Constitution?

Will PAM accede to follow PAC protocols?

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

On 13 Sep 2016 17:54, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
> i made my proposal in the document i drafted. I believe a special
> unity conference or congress should be convened to do wholistic
> introspextion and maximum self-criticism and ceiticism as a party,
> learn lessons from our successes and failures, take drastic
> resolutions to uproot factiomalism in the party, disband all factions
> and NEC structures elected based on factions, develop Party-building
> programme to unite the Party into a great party, establish collective
> leadership for collective responsibility, etc .
>
> On 13/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> > Cde Chargein
> >
> > Point taken, then what's your proposal to defactionalise and forge
> > principled unity?
> >
> > Regards
> > Nkrumah
> >
> > On 13 Sep 2016 13:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
> >
> >> Comrade Nkrumah
> >>
> >> Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.
> >>
> >> The explanation you gave do not assist
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
> >> nrkgag...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Cde Chargin
> >> >
> >> > I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,
> >> >
> >> > Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an
> >> > unity
> >> > conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48
> hours)
> >> and
> >> > also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may
> lack
> >> > a
> >> > mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly
> >> elitist
> >> > since those with financial resources without branches nor mandates can
> >> > attend the conference .
> >> >
> >> > But the bottom-up approach is a members driven process hence the
> >> necessity
> >> > to defactionalise and forge unity from branches  and regional levels
> as
> >> > a
> >> > priority, thus members take full ownership to drive principled unity
> of
> >> the
> >> > PAC since members generate mandates and define the principles of party
> >> > unity; Bottom up approach is democratic and transparent programmatic
> >> > approach. In a bottom-up approach the individual base elements of the
> >> > system are first specified in great detail by members define the
> >> > problem
> >> > and formulate necessary interventions which constitutes a solution.
> >> > These
> >> > elements are then linked together to form larger subsystems, which
> then
> >> in
> >> > turn are linked, sometimes in many levels, until a complete top-level
> >> > system is formed. This strategy often resembles a "seed" model, by
> >> > which
> >> > the beginnings are small but eventually grow in complexity and
> >> > completeness. A "*bottom-up*" approach to changes one that works from
> >> > the  grassroots (members and branches)—from a large number of people
> >> > working together, through regular interaction they cause a decision to
> >> > arise from their joint involvement. A decision by a number of
> >> > activists,
> >> > students, or victims of some incident to take action is a "bottom-up"
> >> > decision. A bottom-up approach can be thought of as an incremental
> >> > change
> >> > approach that represents an emergent process cultivated and upheld
> >> > primarily by members.
> >> >
> >> > Direct (repeat) response you question on "holding two rallies in one
> >> > province and still claim unity in the PAC will be realized soon." Two
> >> > rallies are held as a consequence of parallel structures but if
> members
> >> per
> >> > region example if PAC members in Vaal region do meet at an inclusive
> >> > regional meeting and resolve not to attend rallies organised by what
> >> > factionalised leadership meaning members consciously resolves to
> >> > denounce
> >> > and boycott factionalised rallies, meetings and any gathering will
> >> catalyse
> >> > the collapse of factions. In Vaal and other regions, the following
> >> > bottom
> >> > up approach can used. We invited both Mbinda and Letlapa leaderships
> to
> >> an
> >> > inclusive annual regional conference in 2015 for a frank discussions
> on
> >> the
> >> > state of the party (effectively we either work with all of them
> >> > simultaneously or none of them) and also in PAC Johannesburg Region,
> >> > members took a resolution to remain pro-PAC and united around
> >> > principles
> >> > which defines PAC, thus the members resolved to denounce factionalism
> >> > and
> >> > boycott (not-attend) any (or all) factionalised rallies, meetings,
> >> > conference and events. In Johannesburg Regions, members have started
> >> > working together and are encouraged to organise regular inclusive
> >> > branch
> >> > meetings and incl

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

i made my proposal in the document i drafted. I believe a special
unity conference or congress should be convened to do wholistic
introspextion and maximum self-criticism and ceiticism as a party,
learn lessons from our successes and failures, take drastic
resolutions to uproot factiomalism in the party, disband all factions
and NEC structures elected based on factions, develop Party-building
programme to unite the Party into a great party, establish collective
leadership for collective responsibility, etc .

On 13/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> Cde Chargein
>
> Point taken, then what's your proposal to defactionalise and forge
> principled unity?
>
> Regards
> Nkrumah
>
> On 13 Sep 2016 13:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>> Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.
>>
>> The explanation you gave do not assist
>>
>>
>> On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>> nrkgag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Cde Chargin
>> >
>> > I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,
>> >
>> > Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an
>> > unity
>> > conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48 hours)
>> and
>> > also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may lack
>> > a
>> > mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly
>> elitist
>> > since those with financial resources without branches nor mandates can
>> > attend the conference .
>> >
>> > But the bottom-up approach is a members driven process hence the
>> necessity
>> > to defactionalise and forge unity from branches  and regional levels as
>> > a
>> > priority, thus members take full ownership to drive principled unity of
>> the
>> > PAC since members generate mandates and define the principles of party
>> > unity; Bottom up approach is democratic and transparent programmatic
>> > approach. In a bottom-up approach the individual base elements of the
>> > system are first specified in great detail by members define the
>> > problem
>> > and formulate necessary interventions which constitutes a solution.
>> > These
>> > elements are then linked together to form larger subsystems, which then
>> in
>> > turn are linked, sometimes in many levels, until a complete top-level
>> > system is formed. This strategy often resembles a "seed" model, by
>> > which
>> > the beginnings are small but eventually grow in complexity and
>> > completeness. A "*bottom-up*" approach to changes one that works from
>> > the  grassroots (members and branches)—from a large number of people
>> > working together, through regular interaction they cause a decision to
>> > arise from their joint involvement. A decision by a number of
>> > activists,
>> > students, or victims of some incident to take action is a "bottom-up"
>> > decision. A bottom-up approach can be thought of as an incremental
>> > change
>> > approach that represents an emergent process cultivated and upheld
>> > primarily by members.
>> >
>> > Direct (repeat) response you question on "holding two rallies in one
>> > province and still claim unity in the PAC will be realized soon." Two
>> > rallies are held as a consequence of parallel structures but if members
>> per
>> > region example if PAC members in Vaal region do meet at an inclusive
>> > regional meeting and resolve not to attend rallies organised by what
>> > factionalised leadership meaning members consciously resolves to
>> > denounce
>> > and boycott factionalised rallies, meetings and any gathering will
>> catalyse
>> > the collapse of factions. In Vaal and other regions, the following
>> > bottom
>> > up approach can used. We invited both Mbinda and Letlapa leaderships to
>> an
>> > inclusive annual regional conference in 2015 for a frank discussions on
>> the
>> > state of the party (effectively we either work with all of them
>> > simultaneously or none of them) and also in PAC Johannesburg Region,
>> > members took a resolution to remain pro-PAC and united around
>> > principles
>> > which defines PAC, thus the members resolved to denounce factionalism
>> > and
>> > boycott (not-attend) any (or all) factionalised rallies, meetings,
>> > conference and events. In Johannesburg Regions, members have started
>> > working together and are encouraged to organise regular inclusive
>> > branch
>> > meetings and inclusive regional meetings. All members are encouraged to
>> > return to their respective branches and belong to a unified PAC branch.
>> We
>> > as PAC members have taken the decisions to forge unity and rebuild
>> > party
>> > structures namely branches and regional structures which should
>> > propagate
>> > revolutionary Pan Africanism, Aims and Objectives of the PAC.  Regular
>> > inclusive regional meetings are held and we reach out to as many
>> > PAC (including PAM) members to attend and participate in party
>> (re)building
>> > programme.
>> >
>> > [image: Figure 3. Top-down and bottom-u

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

Point taken, then what's your proposal to defactionalise and forge
principled unity?

Regards
Nkrumah

On 13 Sep 2016 13:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
> Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.
>
> The explanation you gave do not assist
>
>
> On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
> nrkgag...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Cde Chargin
> >
> > I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,
> >
> > Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an unity
> > conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48 hours)
> and
> > also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may lack a
> > mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly
> elitist
> > since those with financial resources without branches nor mandates can
> > attend the conference .
> >
> > But the bottom-up approach is a members driven process hence the
> necessity
> > to defactionalise and forge unity from branches  and regional levels as a
> > priority, thus members take full ownership to drive principled unity of
> the
> > PAC since members generate mandates and define the principles of party
> > unity; Bottom up approach is democratic and transparent programmatic
> > approach. In a bottom-up approach the individual base elements of the
> > system are first specified in great detail by members define the problem
> > and formulate necessary interventions which constitutes a solution. These
> > elements are then linked together to form larger subsystems, which then
> in
> > turn are linked, sometimes in many levels, until a complete top-level
> > system is formed. This strategy often resembles a "seed" model, by which
> > the beginnings are small but eventually grow in complexity and
> > completeness. A "*bottom-up*" approach to changes one that works from
> > the  grassroots (members and branches)—from a large number of people
> > working together, through regular interaction they cause a decision to
> > arise from their joint involvement. A decision by a number of activists,
> > students, or victims of some incident to take action is a "bottom-up"
> > decision. A bottom-up approach can be thought of as an incremental change
> > approach that represents an emergent process cultivated and upheld
> > primarily by members.
> >
> > Direct (repeat) response you question on "holding two rallies in one
> > province and still claim unity in the PAC will be realized soon." Two
> > rallies are held as a consequence of parallel structures but if members
> per
> > region example if PAC members in Vaal region do meet at an inclusive
> > regional meeting and resolve not to attend rallies organised by what
> > factionalised leadership meaning members consciously resolves to denounce
> > and boycott factionalised rallies, meetings and any gathering will
> catalyse
> > the collapse of factions. In Vaal and other regions, the following bottom
> > up approach can used. We invited both Mbinda and Letlapa leaderships to
> an
> > inclusive annual regional conference in 2015 for a frank discussions on
> the
> > state of the party (effectively we either work with all of them
> > simultaneously or none of them) and also in PAC Johannesburg Region,
> > members took a resolution to remain pro-PAC and united around principles
> > which defines PAC, thus the members resolved to denounce factionalism and
> > boycott (not-attend) any (or all) factionalised rallies, meetings,
> > conference and events. In Johannesburg Regions, members have started
> > working together and are encouraged to organise regular inclusive branch
> > meetings and inclusive regional meetings. All members are encouraged to
> > return to their respective branches and belong to a unified PAC branch.
> We
> > as PAC members have taken the decisions to forge unity and rebuild party
> > structures namely branches and regional structures which should propagate
> > revolutionary Pan Africanism, Aims and Objectives of the PAC.  Regular
> > inclusive regional meetings are held and we reach out to as many
> > PAC (including PAM) members to attend and participate in party
> (re)building
> > programme.
> >
> > [image: Figure 3. Top-down and bottom-up approach to problem solving.]
> > The next stage is coordinate a PAC 3rd Gauteng PAC Unity Consultative
> > Meeting, to consider a PAC Gauteng Provincial Unity Plan of Action.
> What's
> > fundamental is members must agree as to what constitute forged principled
> > unity and how to achieve it a provincial level, and how to monitor
> progress
> > to defactionalise the PAC and forge principled unity at a provincial
> level
> > meaning from branch to regional to provincial level.  Finally
> > organisationally we aim at a set of i
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
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>
> Visit our websit

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Sorry, I meant Bottom-up approach.

The explanation you gave do not assist


On 13 September 2016 at 12:07, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Chargin
>
> I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,
>
> Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an unity
> conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48 hours) and
> also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may lack a
> mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly elitist
> since those with financial resources without branches nor mandates can
> attend the conference .
>
> But the bottom-up approach is a members driven process hence the necessity
> to defactionalise and forge unity from branches  and regional levels as a
> priority, thus members take full ownership to drive principled unity of the
> PAC since members generate mandates and define the principles of party
> unity; Bottom up approach is democratic and transparent programmatic
> approach. In a bottom-up approach the individual base elements of the
> system are first specified in great detail by members define the problem
> and formulate necessary interventions which constitutes a solution. These
> elements are then linked together to form larger subsystems, which then in
> turn are linked, sometimes in many levels, until a complete top-level
> system is formed. This strategy often resembles a "seed" model, by which
> the beginnings are small but eventually grow in complexity and
> completeness. A "*bottom-up*" approach to changes one that works from
> the  grassroots (members and branches)—from a large number of people
> working together, through regular interaction they cause a decision to
> arise from their joint involvement. A decision by a number of activists,
> students, or victims of some incident to take action is a "bottom-up"
> decision. A bottom-up approach can be thought of as an incremental change
> approach that represents an emergent process cultivated and upheld
> primarily by members.
>
> Direct (repeat) response you question on "holding two rallies in one
> province and still claim unity in the PAC will be realized soon." Two
> rallies are held as a consequence of parallel structures but if members per
> region example if PAC members in Vaal region do meet at an inclusive
> regional meeting and resolve not to attend rallies organised by what
> factionalised leadership meaning members consciously resolves to denounce
> and boycott factionalised rallies, meetings and any gathering will catalyse
> the collapse of factions. In Vaal and other regions, the following bottom
> up approach can used. We invited both Mbinda and Letlapa leaderships to an
> inclusive annual regional conference in 2015 for a frank discussions on the
> state of the party (effectively we either work with all of them
> simultaneously or none of them) and also in PAC Johannesburg Region,
> members took a resolution to remain pro-PAC and united around principles
> which defines PAC, thus the members resolved to denounce factionalism and
> boycott (not-attend) any (or all) factionalised rallies, meetings,
> conference and events. In Johannesburg Regions, members have started
> working together and are encouraged to organise regular inclusive branch
> meetings and inclusive regional meetings. All members are encouraged to
> return to their respective branches and belong to a unified PAC branch. We
> as PAC members have taken the decisions to forge unity and rebuild party
> structures namely branches and regional structures which should propagate
> revolutionary Pan Africanism, Aims and Objectives of the PAC.  Regular
> inclusive regional meetings are held and we reach out to as many
> PAC (including PAM) members to attend and participate in party (re)building
> programme.
>
> [image: Figure 3. Top-down and bottom-up approach to problem solving.]
> The next stage is coordinate a PAC 3rd Gauteng PAC Unity Consultative
> Meeting, to consider a PAC Gauteng Provincial Unity Plan of Action. What's
> fundamental is members must agree as to what constitute forged principled
> unity and how to achieve it a provincial level, and how to monitor progress
> to defactionalise the PAC and forge principled unity at a provincial level
> meaning from branch to regional to provincial level.  Finally
> organisationally we aim at a set of i

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Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargin

I expressed and explained bottom-up approach not a top-up approach,

Top-up approach is when members converged for the first time for an unity
conference hoping to resolve leadership factions in two days (48 hours) and
also generate a PoA. Those who succeeds to attend a conference may lack a
mandate thus represent their own individual jackets thus its highly elitist
since those with financial resources without branches nor mandates can
attend the conference .

But the bottom-up approach is a members driven process hence the necessity
to defactionalise and forge unity from branches  and regional levels as a
priority, thus members take full ownership to drive principled unity of the
PAC since members generate mandates and define the principles of party
unity; Bottom up approach is democratic and transparent programmatic
approach. In a bottom-up approach the individual base elements of the
system are first specified in great detail by members define the problem
and formulate necessary interventions which constitutes a solution. These
elements are then linked together to form larger subsystems, which then in
turn are linked, sometimes in many levels, until a complete top-level
system is formed. This strategy often resembles a "seed" model, by which
the beginnings are small but eventually grow in complexity and
completeness. A "*bottom-up*" approach to changes one that works from the
grassroots (members and branches)—from a large number of people working
together, through regular interaction they cause a decision to arise from
their joint involvement. A decision by a number of activists, students, or
victims of some incident to take action is a "bottom-up" decision. A
bottom-up approach can be thought of as an incremental change approach that
represents an emergent process cultivated and upheld primarily by members.

Direct (repeat) response you question on "holding two rallies in one
province and still claim unity in the PAC will be realized soon." Two
rallies are held as a consequence of parallel structures but if members per
region example if PAC members in Vaal region do meet at an inclusive
regional meeting and resolve not to attend rallies organised by what
factionalised leadership meaning members consciously resolves to denounce
and boycott factionalised rallies, meetings and any gathering will catalyse
the collapse of factions. In Vaal and other regions, the following bottom
up approach can used. We invited both Mbinda and Letlapa leaderships to an
inclusive annual regional conference in 2015 for a frank discussions on the
state of the party (effectively we either work with all of them
simultaneously or none of them) and also in PAC Johannesburg Region,
members took a resolution to remain pro-PAC and united around principles
which defines PAC, thus the members resolved to denounce factionalism and
boycott (not-attend) any (or all) factionalised rallies, meetings,
conference and events. In Johannesburg Regions, members have started
working together and are encouraged to organise regular inclusive branch
meetings and inclusive regional meetings. All members are encouraged to
return to their respective branches and belong to a unified PAC branch. We
as PAC members have taken the decisions to forge unity and rebuild party
structures namely branches and regional structures which should propagate
revolutionary Pan Africanism, Aims and Objectives of the PAC.  Regular
inclusive regional meetings are held and we reach out to as many
PAC (including PAM) members to attend and participate in party (re)building
programme.

[image: Figure 3. Top-down and bottom-up approach to problem solving.]
The next stage is coordinate a PAC 3rd Gauteng PAC Unity Consultative
Meeting, to consider a PAC Gauteng Provincial Unity Plan of Action. What's
fundamental is members must agree as to what constitute forged principled
unity and how to achieve it a provincial level, and how to monitor progress
to defactionalise the PAC and forge principled unity at a provincial level
meaning from branch to regional to provincial level.  Finally
organisationally we aim at a set of interrelated components which interact
with one another in an organised fashion towards a common purpose’, thus
bottom up (not top up) approach as a systemic approach includes a set of
activities that lead and control the overall design, implementation and
integration of a complex set of interacting components.

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

On 13 September 2016 at 10:20, Chargein Mabaso 
wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
> Does it mean your Top-up approach cannot address a typical case prevailing
> in the Vaal which is currently happening in the Party throughout the
> country. I am still waiting for your response on this issue and the reason
> for holding two rallies in one province and still claim unity in the PAC
> will be realized soon.
>
> Let’s turn to the concept of factions or factionalism.
>
> ln a political party, a faction is simply a group of individuals wit

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Does it mean your Top-up approach cannot address a typical case prevailing
in the Vaal which is currently happening in the Party throughout the
country. I am still waiting for your response on this issue and the reason
for holding two rallies in one province and still claim unity in the PAC
will be realized soon.

Let’s turn to the concept of factions or factionalism.

ln a political party, a faction is simply a group of individuals with a
common political purpose and is sometimes referred to as a power bloc or
even a caucus in its embryonic stage. All the current factions in the PAC
started as legitimate caucuses, not necessary full blown factions. We
learned later that all caucuses are nothing but factions in their embryonic
stage, whether ideological or leadership factions. The main aim of any
faction is to advance a particular policy or policy agenda and/or
preventing the adoption of alternative policies and supporting given
individuals to position of power within the organisationto represent and
advance the faction’s agenda. A faction can also be based around supporting
a given person, a leader, to be elected into leadership position. The
former is the ideological faction and the latter is leadership faction.

For example, the Africanists were an ideological faction within the ANC in
the 1950s. They developed the revolutionary Nation-Building Programme and
forced it down the throat of the reformist ANC Old Guards during the ANC
National Conference held in Bloemfontein in 1949. The ANC adopted the
Programme of Action after a fierce political battle and the Old Guard later
regurgitated it in 1955. Whoever wanted to be voted to lead the ANC in the
1949 ANC Bloemfontein Conference as its President was required as a
prerequisite to accept and endorse the Programme of Action and commit
himself/her to uphold the Programme in his/her term of office. The
Africanist faction fought fireless to opposed the ANC adoption of Freedom
Charter in 1955. Unlike the Africanist ideological faction, the PAC
factions formed after the 1993 Umtata Conference up to today were and are
still the leadership factions, not ideological factions. They were or are
still based on around supporting a given person to the PAC President based
on the Messiah mentality. e.g.. Dr. Mogoba, Dr Pheko, Maxwell
Nemadzhivhanani, Letlapa Mphahlele, Thami Plaatjie, Luthando Mbinda,
Mphethi, etc. Malema’s faction within the ANCYL focused all its efforts on
one policy issue, nationalization of key economic sectors of the South
African economy (mines, banks, big industries, etc) so as to assume the
status of an ideological faction within the ANC just like the Africanists
to avoid being reduced into a mere leadership faction like the current PAC
factions. The T.M. Ntantala’s faction in exile also assumed the status of
an ideological faction whose proposed policy positions were enshrined in
the New Road of Revolution. The Revolutionary Watchdogs tried to assume a
policy stand too against the Constituent Assembly in the pre-1994 era just
like T.M. Ntatala and Malema’s factions within the PAC and ANC,
respectively.

The point is Clause 15 of the PAC Disciplinary Code refers leadership
faction, not to ideological factions. Ideological factions are healthy in
any active political party. They are an indication of dynamism in the
political life of an organisation. It must be encouraged at all times.
Without ideological struggles, the Party will degenerate, both politically
and ideologically.

So far we have all failed to form ideological factions within the PAC in
the post-1994 era of the New Democracy. We have all not outgrown leadership
factions. That is why some of us resist the disbandment of current
leadership factions. We need PAC unity to avail the opportunity for the
realignment of revolutionary and progressive forces both inside and outside
the PAC based on a minimum programme (agreed upon policies or policy
agenda). We can call it an Africanist or Socialist Agenda and constitute
ourselves into a Revolutionary Vanguard or Revolutionary Pan Africanists or
Africanist Socialist Democrats to advocate for an Africanist Socialist
Democracy proposed by the founders of PAC . That is, we must follow
steadfastly on the footsteps of Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe and Dr. Kwame
Nkrumah, not leaders of current leadership factions.

I hope I made my point clear on the concept of factions.



Izwe Lethu!

On 12 September 2016 at 18:57, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Chargein
>
> I requested that you define and describe factionalism and factions for us,
> this will assist to move from the same wavelength.
>
> There are members who resolved not to attend any event and meetings which
> furthers factionalism. These are members keen to forge unity and are
> working with other party members, thus parallel structures are on a decline
> in many parts of Gauteng. The dying parallel structures will logically lead
> to PAC hosting one inclusive party events, w

RE: [PAYCO]

[Sebenzile Mlaza]

  




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Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

I requested that you define and describe factionalism and factions for us,
this will assist to move from the same wavelength.

There are members who resolved not to attend any event and meetings which
furthers factionalism. These are members keen to forge unity and are
working with other party members, thus parallel structures are on a decline
in many parts of Gauteng. The dying parallel structures will logically lead
to PAC hosting one inclusive party events, we can't oversimplify the task
to forge principled unity and defactionalise the party it's an internal
struggle in it's own nature given the ideological contradictions prevalent
within the party.

The decisive battle to be won it's when party members in mass reject and
denounce factional gatherings including a factional leaders and the same
members resort to forge unity from their respective areas and build from
that base.

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

On 12 Sep 2016 18:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
> Theory is only good if it can address praxtical problems. You did
> explain how will your Bottom-up approach can solve current dilema in
> the Vaal. You did expolain why in Gaung there are two PAC rallIes
> whenever the Party commemorates important days in its calender if your
> apporoach works. You are two factions. That is clear. A united PAC in
> Gauteng is expected to hold one rally,, not two or more on the same
> day. May be there is lack of understanding of factions and
> factionalism here or defence of factionalism. That is another debate
> on its own.
>
> On 12/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> > Cde Chargein
> >
> > We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
> > define and describe a faction.
> >
> > Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
> > unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be
> most
> > effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC
> starting
> > from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
> > consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up
> approach
> > is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
> > facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
> > credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is members
> > centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
> > Democratic Centralism.
> >
> > As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
> > time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
> > national conference.
> >
> > Shango lashu
> >
> > On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
> >
> >> Comrade Nkrumah
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
> >> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
> >> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
> >> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
> >> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
> >> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
> >> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is
> >> to
> >> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
> >> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
> >> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting
> today
> >> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
> >> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks
> >> and
> >> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade
> >> Solundwane
> >> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting
> without
> >> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
> >> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and
> will
> >> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions
> >> still
> >> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because
> >> of
> >> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
> >> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as
> it
> >> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting
> >> is
> >> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
> >> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
> >> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM
> >> President
> >> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their
> views
> >> and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
> >> still maintain my views till n

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Theory is only good if it can address praxtical problems. You did
explain how will your Bottom-up approach can solve current dilema in
the Vaal. You did expolain why in Gaung there are two PAC rallIes
whenever the Party commemorates important days in its calender if your
apporoach works. You are two factions. That is clear. A united PAC in
Gauteng is expected to hold one rally,, not two or more on the same
day. May be there is lack of understanding of factions and
factionalism here or defence of factionalism. That is another debate
on its own.

On 12/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> Cde Chargein
>
> We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
> define and describe a faction.
>
> Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
> unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be most
> effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC starting
> from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
> consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up approach
> is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
> facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
> credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is members
> centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
> Democratic Centralism.
>
> As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
> time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
> national conference.
>
> Shango lashu
>
> On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>>
>>
>> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
>> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
>> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
>> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
>> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
>> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
>> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is
>> to
>> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
>> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
>> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today
>> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
>> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks
>> and
>> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade
>> Solundwane
>> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without
>> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
>> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will
>> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions
>> still
>> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because
>> of
>> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
>> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it
>> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting
>> is
>> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
>> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
>> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM
>> President
>> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.
>>
>>
>>
>> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views
>> and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
>> still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong.
>> The
>> same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are
>> still
>> right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still
>> correct
>> in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special
>> conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We
>> need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse
>> each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in
>> no
>> uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future.
>> All
>> these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic
>> Documents
>> and be prepared to correct their attitudes and promise not to repeat the
>> same mistakes again. To cover up our wrongdoings  will be disservice to
>> PAC
>> and the revolution. We must all be prepared to take full responsibility
>> for
>> all our actions, not certain people. No one is exempted from making
>> mistakes in the revolution. I want to see that day whose hands are clean
>> in
>> the current crisis.
>>
>>
>>
>> As revolutionaries, we must not afraid of criti

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
define and describe a faction.

Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be most
effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC starting
from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up approach
is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is members
centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
Democratic Centralism.

As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
national conference.

Shango lashu

On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
>
>
> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is to
> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
>
>
>
> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today
> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks and
> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade Solundwane
> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without
> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will
> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions still
> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because of
> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it
> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting is
> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM President
> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.
>
>
>
> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views
> and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
> still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong. The
> same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are still
> right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still correct
> in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special
> conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We
> need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse
> each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in no
> uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future. All
> these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic Documents
> and be prepared to correct their attitudes and promise not to repeat the
> same mistakes again. To cover up our wrongdoings  will be disservice to PAC
> and the revolution. We must all be prepared to take full responsibility for
> all our actions, not certain people. No one is exempted from making
> mistakes in the revolution. I want to see that day whose hands are clean in
> the current crisis.
>
>
>
> As revolutionaries, we must not afraid of criticism. Let’s practice what
> we preach. Those who are opposed to the conference or congress are scared
> of maximum self-criticism and criticism. They are afraid to to correct
> their mistakes and are prepared to repeat them. They are cowards who always
> want to appear clean.
>
>
>
> The Top-up approach will definitely complicate matters. Let’s accept it.
>
>
>
> Currently, PAM members have experienced strange treatment at all unity
> meetings organised at branch, regional and provincial level by any faction.
> They are told to first disband PAM before unity is discussed or recognised
> within the PAC. Funny enough, the same does not apply to PAC factions which
> are multiplying day by day. WHY? The reasons are those factions do not
> believe there is 

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah



The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The Marxist
philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the dependence of
theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on practice and in turn
serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and Practice*]. Theory does not
serve itself. The same applies to natural science and our current challenge
to unite the PAC. That is, the correctness of the Top-up approach should be
based on practice. Ours is to be put the Top-up approach on test through
practice.



Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today
that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks and
physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade Solundwane
or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without
tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will
be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions still
have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because of
the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it
is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting is
called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM President
too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.



All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views
and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong. The
same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are still
right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still correct
in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special
conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We
need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse
each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in no
uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future. All
these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic Documents
and be prepared to correct their attitudes and promise not to repeat the
same mistakes again. To cover up our wrongdoings  will be disservice to PAC
and the revolution. We must all be prepared to take full responsibility for
all our actions, not certain people. No one is exempted from making
mistakes in the revolution. I want to see that day whose hands are clean in
the current crisis.



As revolutionaries, we must not afraid of criticism. Let’s practice what we
preach. Those who are opposed to the conference or congress are scared of
maximum self-criticism and criticism. They are afraid to to correct their
mistakes and are prepared to repeat them. They are cowards who always want
to appear clean.



The Top-up approach will definitely complicate matters. Let’s accept it.



Currently, PAM members have experienced strange treatment at all unity
meetings organised at branch, regional and provincial level by any faction.
They are told to first disband PAM before unity is discussed or recognised
within the PAC. Funny enough, the same does not apply to PAC factions which
are multiplying day by day. WHY? The reasons are those factions do not
believe there is crisis within the PAC and those socalled unity talks are
between PAM and one of the PAC factions, not between PAM and one, united
PAC. It is either between PAM and Mphahlele’s faction or Mbinda’s faction
or the new PAC faction formed, consciously or unconsciously, around Gauteng
which normally have rallies around Soweto not attending rallies organised
by Mbinda-Moloto’s faction. What do you call such meetings? They are
nothing but an attempt to consolidate individual factions turning them into
super-factions instead of uniting PAC. That is the true meaning of the
Top-up approach.



The Top-up approach is also doomed to fail. It will reach its political
cul-de-sac sooner than expected. It’s a waste of time and fruitless
exercise. It must be treated as such.



A new approach is needed if we are serious about PAC unity. A principled,
scientific approach based on the 1959 Basic Documents is the only solution
to the current PAC crisis. All factions and parties must, first, be
disbanded at a conference or congress level, not only PAM. That is what all
PAC factions do not want. A new leadership must be put in place based on
collect

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Comrade Charge-in



Factionalism within the party which has exhibited itself in many ills such
as the parallel National Leadership structures including other party
structures, is a manifestation of both the ideo-political and organisation
degeneration, primarily degeneration of the branches and members of the
PAC, hence the rot and decay we see.



Legitimacy of any leadership is derived from popular explicit and implicit
consent of the governed (members and branches) acting through, and as
determined and prescribed by the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary
Code. Whether
a leadership has authority, in the sense that members and branches obey its
instructions and laws, we can ask whether it(leadership) has legitimacy.
The term legitimate comes from the Latin for ‘lawful’. In the most basic
sense, a national leadership is legitimate if it exists and operates
according to the law in this case PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code
thus enjoy full support and recognition of members and branches. Branches
are the party's basic blocks, they are a determining factor of unity or
perpetuation of factions, if they are strong or weak. If the majority or
ideally all members and branches withdraw their recognition and association
of any national leadership then no-one leadership can claim legitimacy.



Weak branches and members are susceptible to evil influences, hence the
feuding parallel National Leaderships thrives on the basis of an
ideologically weak, confused and divided membership and/or branches. Acting
outside of the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary code, the feuding
leaderships uses and exploit differences of whatever nature prevalent among
members and/or branches thus coordinate and recognise those members and/or
branches who legitimizes it, this then make an illegitimate leadership
by default become legitimate.



Unified members acting through their Branches constitutes the basic
building blocks of the party as per the party disciplinary code. If a
branch based members disagree and they operate outside the party
constitution and disciplinary code,  and their
disagreements persistently remain unresolved such an internal environment
will either breed factionalism or create a fertile ground for factionalism
to prevail.



Bottom-up implies refers to party members centred and driven unity process
to defactionalise the party from the branch level to regional level etc.
Acting within the principle of democratic centralism, inclusive branch
meetings composed of all PAC members drawn across feuding groupings and
also inclusive inter-branch regional meetings equally composed of all
members drawn from feuding groupings, PAM and any other PAC members seeking
principled unity has proven to e the most effective method to
defactionalise and forge principled unity; such regular meetings, political
classes included  are coordinated and organised to take place on regular
basis (example monthly).



Our Party is not simply an aggregate of individual members. It is a
unified, organic body established according to a definite principle. It is
a composite of its leaders and its rank and file. The Party as an
organization at all levels and the broad body of the membership and it has
been established in accordance with a definite principle, that is,
democratic centralism in the Party.



·Organise regular all members inclusive branch meetings;

·Reconstitute branches and operate within party constitution and
disciplinary code;

·Organise regular all members regional meetings;

·Reconstitute regions and operate within the party constitution and
disciplinary code;

·Organise ideological and political workshops on regular basis at
regional and provincial level;

·Initiate and organise mass based community struggles;

·Organise regular all inclusive provincial meetings to consolidate
unity with common purpose and consolidate gains made;

·Approach the PAC national unity conference from a position of
unity achieved from the bottom to top, that is branches to regional then
provincial;



Avoid attending and convening national conferences coming from your
branches and regions being divided and highly factionalised, instead
approach national unity conference from a position where concrete steps and
actions has been taken, gains had been to forge principle unity from the
branch level moving upward.


If P .A.C. wants to forge ahead, it must adopt and carry out this principle
with firmness and thoroughness. To address and root out Factionalism which
the party basic documents has concluded that “Factionalism is the enemy of
solidarity and unity of action”, the Party basic documents also concludes
that “to destroy it (factionalism) at its roots, maximum self-criticism
should be encouraged within the movement. A movement that adopts democratic
centralism in its approach to its organizational problems will know how to
deal with the virus of factionalism”. And that “Where the nor

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

How are you, Son of the soil?

I would also appreciate to meet you and other comrade who would  like to
share ideas on the unity talks in relation to my input. My position is not
cast in stone. I have applied my mind to the task at hand. May be I am not
informed on the basis of twor approaches. I only based my position on the
scientific approach to Party unity. I also drew lessons from other
revolutions worldwide. The current crisis is not unique to PAC. All
revolutionary parties through the world experienced the same challenge of
factionalism. They addressed their own crises the same way as enshrined in
the PAC Basic Documents. It is the only objective and scientific approach.
Others are subjective and unscientific. That is my stance.

Lest we forget! There is unfinished business in the PAC. People want to
settle old scores, in one way or another. Let's not trivalise the current
crisis. Some of political and ideological differences in the PAC have their
roots going as far as in exile and in Robben Island in the days of
Casablanca and Morovian groups, Katanga's, Panafro, Sobukwe Forum, APRP,
etc.  PAM, ID and APC are new phenomena. We need to open those wounds,
surgically clean and stitch them so that they heal properly. The
broad-church mentality does not work even in reformist parties like the
ANC,  let alone in evolutionary ones.

My challenge is: I believe the approach enshrined in the PAC Basic
Documents is the only correct and scientific one. The reason is, from my
experience since I joined PAC, any position in line with the PAC Basic
Documents is always the correct one at the end. Any violation of the PAC
Basic Documents always proved to be wrong in the final analysis. Take, for
example, the suspension of armed struggle by the PAC NWC and the
President's violation of the PAC Constitution and Disciplinary Code after
Qwaqwa Congress. No amount of innovation and creativity will ever disprove
the correctness of the PAC Basic Documents. They are sacrosanct to us as
Pan Africanist just like the Bible is to Christians. Once comrades start to
question their correctness, I always feel suspicious of the intentions of
those Party members. I know there is currently some members who openly
disagree with Sobukwe and Kwame Nkrumah on certain political line they
advocated for the Party Their mere mention of such disagreements makes me
doubt their intentions and honest. They sound mischievous. To me, that is
strange to claim to be following in the footsteps of Sobukwe and Nkrumah
and still disagree with the them on their political line. Such a move is
like being a proud Christian totally opposed to some of the teachings of
Jesus Christ, for example, being opposed to the "turn-the-other-chick"
stance advocated by Jesus Christ. It's contradiction in terms. Honest and
loyal Christians do not advocate "an-eye-for-an-eye" stance in dealing with
their enemies.

May be after our meeting I will be convinced otherwise. As of now, I am
not. I currently believe there is no need to event the wheel at this stage.
The tools of resolving PAC crisis are enshrined in the PAC Basic Documents,
no where else. I may be wrong. Please educate me, noble sons and daughters
of the soil.

I am available next week from  Monday to Friday. I will be around Joburg
for the whole week. We can meet at any convenient time. Let's keep in
contact.

I want to be honest, I am not convince the Top-down and Bottom-up
approaches will ever work. I may be wrong.  My instinct and logic say the
opposite. Objectively, the two approaches are not workable. May be after
our meeting I will see light at the end of the tunnel. Let's talk later,
comrade.

Izwe Lethu!


Charge-in Mabaso
Cell: 071 020 3554

 .





On 8 September 2016 at 21:17, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
wrote:

> Cde Charge in
>
> Thanks for the document which I perused, your critique of Top Down and
> Bottom Up strategies fails to recognise the solutions presented or arising
> from each strategy and also that both strategies are capable to converge as
> long as there the two strategies are not executed from an antagonist
> initiators.
>
> Please note: Not all PAC Branches and regions have parallel structures, in
> some areas parallel structures have collapsed, this present a space to
> rebuild ftom the bottom.
>
> I suggest a session to exchange ideas on your paper.
>
> Shango lashu
> Nkrumah
>
> On 8 Sep 2016 13:28, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Ma-Afrika
>>
>> Please find the attached document as my objective contribution to the
>> debate on unity talks within the Pan Africanist camp. It is my sincere hope
>> that the contribution will kick-start the derailed talks into motion in the
>> right direction.
>>
>> Izwe Lethu!
>>
>> .
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>>
>> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>>

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Charge in

Thanks for the document which I perused, your critique of Top Down and
Bottom Up strategies fails to recognise the solutions presented or arising
from each strategy and also that both strategies are capable to converge as
long as there the two strategies are not executed from an antagonist
initiators.

Please note: Not all PAC Branches and regions have parallel structures, in
some areas parallel structures have collapsed, this present a space to
rebuild ftom the bottom.

I suggest a session to exchange ideas on your paper.

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

On 8 Sep 2016 13:28, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Ma-Afrika
>
> Please find the attached document as my objective contribution to the
> debate on unity talks within the Pan Africanist camp. It is my sincere hope
> that the contribution will kick-start the derailed talks into motion in the
> right direction.
>
> Izwe Lethu!
>
> .
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group.
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Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Chargein Mabaso]

MAfrika, Good day.

The current political developments in our country at the moment have open a
new opportunity for Pan Africanists to go back to the drawing board and do
some serious introspection. The current voter apathy, poor PAC/PAM
performance  and the politics of coalitions after the recent local
government elections say a lot to any serious-minded political party still
wishing to continue to exist and survive in the current turbulent political
situation in South Africa. We are entering interesting times in the history
of our country. The developments send a clear message to all of us about
the coming National Elections in 2019. We must do something now or forget
about making impact in 2019. We must position ourselves now to be either
the ruling party, or the official opposition, or  a kingmaker in 2019. It
is our chance as a monolithic united party not factions and breakaway
parties. If we are serious enough, we can make it. If not, serious-minded
Pan Africanists should come together and form one voice like the EFF did.
We cannot waste our precious time with nicetime clowns who are paying
lip-service to unity whilst inwardly opposed to it. Let's give them the
last chance up to the end of September 2016 and kiss and say goodbye
to unity talks.Get me right: A united PAC can be an ideal situation. A
united PAC can become the ruling party in 2019. It is possible. It is no
longer a pie in the sky. If PAC unity is not achievable in our lifetime
because of some political turncoats in our midst, it's bad luck. Mafrika,
we must ask ourselves why voters prefer to vote for everyone else (every
Jack and Jill) but not Pan Africanists. They also vote for independents but
not us, WHY? We must answer that question. Other parties are having
sleepless nights positioning themselves strategically for 2019. Pan
Africanists will from now onward be busy fighting each otherin courts of
law  instead of closing ranks and position themselves to occupy the
existing political vacuum in our country. Many of the people who did not
vote do not associate themselves with the current political stream (ANC, DA
and EFF). They have no political home.In the meantime, we are aloof and
divorced from the masses but not PASMA. PASMA is deeply involved is student
politics. The question is: did PASMA vote in the local elections? Which
party they voted for? Remember: I said some PASMA members belong to other
political parties, not necessary to PAC as many people wish us to believe,
unlike PASO we launched in 1989. Comrades, we cannot expect to be voted
into power if we do not lead the masses in their daily struggles where
 they are fighting for their bread and butter issues in their communities
and workplaces through civic movements, trade unions, youth organisations,
etc. We cannot avoid theses questions for too long if we are serious about
wining power. Did NACTU affiliates vote in these elections? Which party
they voted for? Where is Maqhekeni? I only saw him on TV with ANC ministers
Pravin Gordon. Is he still a PAC member like Sdumo of Cosatu is an ANC
member? Something is wrong somewhere? Where is Narius Moloto as NACTU
Secretary General? Is he still a PAC member? Where is NACTU they lead?
Which party NACTU members voted for? These are the difficult questions we
must ask a conference or bosberaad? All these comrades should account if
they are deployed by the Party in NACTU and PASMA. We cannot call them to
account if they are there for themselves. I talk from experience. We were
instructed by Zeph Mothopeng to launch PASO and we accounted to him and to
PAC leadership accordingly for PASO activities, not to ourselves. We were
at one stage instructed to recruit PASO members to join PAC and APLA, and
we did just that. That is why we adopted the slogan, "PASO By Day, APLA By
Night!" What is wrong with PASMA, PAYCO, and NACTU? Where are they
accounting to, to themselves? Hayi khona Something must be done.
.COSATU, ANCYL, SASCO and SANCO are all accounting to the ANC leadership.
If they cannot acount to our Party, we must disband them and launch new
ones. That is it. We cannot have fellow travelers in politics. .

The truth is: We have all failed the Party in one way or another, even for
not asking ourselves the right questions. .


Mafrika, bourgeois mentality of relying on campaigns just few weeks before
elections does not work. I did not work for the past 22 years. When are we
going to learn it? Are we so dumb to learn from our past mistakes? Let's
wake up from the political stupor. other parties are wide awake except
us..PAC grew overnight after the Status and Positive Action Camapains. It
also grew in strength after the launch of AZANYU and PASO. It did not grow
because of posters, TV shows, etc. Mass action is what counts, not mass
demonstration. The chaos caused by EFF in parliament and land grabs is
paying dividends now. It has opted to play opposition role in the coalition
politics so as to continue creating chaos and havoc in thos

Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Izwe lethu

There is no existence of Mpethi's adventure political party in Johannesburg
Region, and positive gains is PAC members lost to APC and PAM are now
returning back. We speak principled unity to re-build PAC as mas based
revolutionary party for the seizure of state political power to establish
an Afrikanist Socialist Democracy,it's not easy but we are making
meaningful progress.

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

On 17 August 2016 at 11:55, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:

> Good Morning MoAfrika Mashilo
>
> PASMA I am referring to Newly formed organisation by those who wanted
> UNITY with the intention to deceive PAC and its Loyal Members
>
> Please ensure that you engage with people who have Integrity and can be
> trusted when you continue with your programme as "Johannesburg Region"
>
> Regards,
>
> *electronically send no signed - authentic *
>
> Mphiri Masoga
> SACWU
> T (012) 320 6472 - 5
> F (012) 320 2179
> F2email: 086 225 4254
> Email: mphi...@gmail.com
> C 073 182 2656
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> PASMA as a PAC Component structure continues to lead students mass
>> agitation in regard to fees must fall.
>>
>> Nkrumah
>>
>> On 15 August 2016 at 12:55, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:
>>
>>> Good Morning MaAfrika
>>>
>>> What happened to PASMA AND ARM?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> *electronically send no signed - authentic *
>>>
>>> Mphiri Masoga
>>> SACWU
>>> T (012) 320 6472 - 5
>>> F (012) 320 2179
>>> F2email: 086 225 4254
>>> Email: mphi...@gmail.com
>>> C 073 182 2656
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>>> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>


 On 10 February 2012 at 11:26, Chargein Mabaso 
 wrote:

> Comrades
>
> Letlapa lost the court appeal. We have been proved right on the
> violation of the PAC. But, who will bell the cat within the PAC, and
> how? Let's wait and see. Power struggles and smear campaigns that
> always divide the Pan Africanist camp will now show its ugly face
> instead of focusing at the mammoth task at hand. Some snubbing has
> already started.
>
> Good luck, noble sons and daughters of Soil. You are now facing a big
> test. Only men and women of vision can shoulder this huge
> responsibility successfully. We are watching you keenly. Kazi ukuba
> izozala nkomoni?
>
> Izwe Lethu!
>
> Charge-in Mabaso
> Ex- PASO Veteran
> 0710203554
>
> On 2/6/12, mmas...@webmail.co.za  wrote:
> > The outcome of the Court proceedings in the matter pertaining to the
> > legality of the Alice Congress was as interesting as has been the
> many other
> > legal fracas the PAC has had to endure over the years.
> >
> > Whilst this is continued evidence of the Party leadership s
> inability to
> > find the key driving anchors, there is another dimension I find
> attractive
> > for analysis. The dimension of leadership, and a point has to be
> made here
> > that whilst leadership is the single most important glue for
> organisational
> > viability, there are many other variables that hold sway to a party s
> > direction and success.
> >
> > And whilst I welcome the Court decision and it must be said well
> done to the
> > engineers of it, I must admit that I was not an inch surprised of
> this
> > ruling. My preoccupation is on something else I will share later on,
> herein.
> >
> > In less than six months of office it became evident that President
> Letlapa
> > (perhaps as he then was) had embarked on a no return path to self
> > destruction and organisational paralysis. Contrary to what many
> people
> > PERCEIVE it increasingly became clear that there was real incapacity
> to take
> > decisions including on matters about which we had given a clear
> mandate, for
> > his benefit some of them. A telling example was his failure to
> secure proper
> > accomodation for himself when we had, some of us millitantly at the
> time,
> > resolved that he should sign as signatory and secure himself decent
> place.
> > He was our President and had our undivided support and loyalty. The
> list of
> > indecision instances is sizeable.
> >
> > Perhaps the indecision was a result of leadership inexperience and
> would be
> > cured with time, so we wanted to convince ourselves.
> >
> > But then other things happened. In post apartheid SA he presided and
> > engineered the break up of the PAC into small insignificant pieces.
> This was
> > very painful and it still is. Two splinter movements sprang out of
> the
> > party, including his attempt at killing PAYCO by introducing some
> league
> > concept. I personally have little regard for the two individuals who
> led
> > these splinter groups as they 

Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Mphiri Masoga]

Good Morning MoAfrika Mashilo

PASMA I am referring to Newly formed organisation by those who wanted UNITY
with the intention to deceive PAC and its Loyal Members

Please ensure that you engage with people who have Integrity and can be
trusted when you continue with your programme as "Johannesburg Region"

Regards,

*electronically send no signed - authentic *

Mphiri Masoga
SACWU
T (012) 320 6472 - 5
F (012) 320 2179
F2email: 086 225 4254
Email: mphi...@gmail.com
C 073 182 2656





On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> PASMA as a PAC Component structure continues to lead students mass
> agitation in regard to fees must fall.
>
> Nkrumah
>
> On 15 August 2016 at 12:55, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:
>
>> Good Morning MaAfrika
>>
>> What happened to PASMA AND ARM?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> *electronically send no signed - authentic *
>>
>> Mphiri Masoga
>> SACWU
>> T (012) 320 6472 - 5
>> F (012) 320 2179
>> F2email: 086 225 4254
>> Email: mphi...@gmail.com
>> C 073 182 2656
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
>> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 February 2012 at 11:26, Chargein Mabaso 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Comrades

 Letlapa lost the court appeal. We have been proved right on the
 violation of the PAC. But, who will bell the cat within the PAC, and
 how? Let's wait and see. Power struggles and smear campaigns that
 always divide the Pan Africanist camp will now show its ugly face
 instead of focusing at the mammoth task at hand. Some snubbing has
 already started.

 Good luck, noble sons and daughters of Soil. You are now facing a big
 test. Only men and women of vision can shoulder this huge
 responsibility successfully. We are watching you keenly. Kazi ukuba
 izozala nkomoni?

 Izwe Lethu!

 Charge-in Mabaso
 Ex- PASO Veteran
 0710203554

 On 2/6/12, mmas...@webmail.co.za  wrote:
 > The outcome of the Court proceedings in the matter pertaining to the
 > legality of the Alice Congress was as interesting as has been the
 many other
 > legal fracas the PAC has had to endure over the years.
 >
 > Whilst this is continued evidence of the Party leadership s inability
 to
 > find the key driving anchors, there is another dimension I find
 attractive
 > for analysis. The dimension of leadership, and a point has to be made
 here
 > that whilst leadership is the single most important glue for
 organisational
 > viability, there are many other variables that hold sway to a party s
 > direction and success.
 >
 > And whilst I welcome the Court decision and it must be said well done
 to the
 > engineers of it, I must admit that I was not an inch surprised of this
 > ruling. My preoccupation is on something else I will share later on,
 herein.
 >
 > In less than six months of office it became evident that President
 Letlapa
 > (perhaps as he then was) had embarked on a no return path to self
 > destruction and organisational paralysis. Contrary to what many people
 > PERCEIVE it increasingly became clear that there was real incapacity
 to take
 > decisions including on matters about which we had given a clear
 mandate, for
 > his benefit some of them. A telling example was his failure to secure
 proper
 > accomodation for himself when we had, some of us millitantly at the
 time,
 > resolved that he should sign as signatory and secure himself decent
 place.
 > He was our President and had our undivided support and loyalty. The
 list of
 > indecision instances is sizeable.
 >
 > Perhaps the indecision was a result of leadership inexperience and
 would be
 > cured with time, so we wanted to convince ourselves.
 >
 > But then other things happened. In post apartheid SA he presided and
 > engineered the break up of the PAC into small insignificant pieces.
 This was
 > very painful and it still is. Two splinter movements sprang out of the
 > party, including his attempt at killing PAYCO by introducing some
 league
 > concept. I personally have little regard for the two individuals who
 led
 > these splinter groups as they are just as much opportunists. The
 issue is
 > that the desire for people to break up Parties is always there but
 > leadership prevails. In cases where the split is not avoidable,
 > organisational performance must absolve you as some form of
 'mitigation'. In
 > this instance the party is on a desperate downslide appealing to
 mainly the
 > few councillor segments most of whom are driven by survivalist
 interests.
 >
 > So having seen all of these, the outcome was always on the cards.
 >
 > My real issue is what then, and I think we must tread slowly,
 carefully and
>>

Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

PASMA as a PAC Component structure continues to lead students mass
agitation in regard to fees must fall.

Nkrumah

On 15 August 2016 at 12:55, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:

> Good Morning MaAfrika
>
> What happened to PASMA AND ARM?
>
> Regards,
>
> *electronically send no signed - authentic *
>
> Mphiri Masoga
> SACWU
> T (012) 320 6472 - 5
> F (012) 320 2179
> F2email: 086 225 4254
> Email: mphi...@gmail.com
> C 073 182 2656
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
> nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 10 February 2012 at 11:26, Chargein Mabaso 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Comrades
>>>
>>> Letlapa lost the court appeal. We have been proved right on the
>>> violation of the PAC. But, who will bell the cat within the PAC, and
>>> how? Let's wait and see. Power struggles and smear campaigns that
>>> always divide the Pan Africanist camp will now show its ugly face
>>> instead of focusing at the mammoth task at hand. Some snubbing has
>>> already started.
>>>
>>> Good luck, noble sons and daughters of Soil. You are now facing a big
>>> test. Only men and women of vision can shoulder this huge
>>> responsibility successfully. We are watching you keenly. Kazi ukuba
>>> izozala nkomoni?
>>>
>>> Izwe Lethu!
>>>
>>> Charge-in Mabaso
>>> Ex- PASO Veteran
>>> 0710203554
>>>
>>> On 2/6/12, mmas...@webmail.co.za  wrote:
>>> > The outcome of the Court proceedings in the matter pertaining to the
>>> > legality of the Alice Congress was as interesting as has been the many
>>> other
>>> > legal fracas the PAC has had to endure over the years.
>>> >
>>> > Whilst this is continued evidence of the Party leadership s inability
>>> to
>>> > find the key driving anchors, there is another dimension I find
>>> attractive
>>> > for analysis. The dimension of leadership, and a point has to be made
>>> here
>>> > that whilst leadership is the single most important glue for
>>> organisational
>>> > viability, there are many other variables that hold sway to a party s
>>> > direction and success.
>>> >
>>> > And whilst I welcome the Court decision and it must be said well done
>>> to the
>>> > engineers of it, I must admit that I was not an inch surprised of this
>>> > ruling. My preoccupation is on something else I will share later on,
>>> herein.
>>> >
>>> > In less than six months of office it became evident that President
>>> Letlapa
>>> > (perhaps as he then was) had embarked on a no return path to self
>>> > destruction and organisational paralysis. Contrary to what many people
>>> > PERCEIVE it increasingly became clear that there was real incapacity
>>> to take
>>> > decisions including on matters about which we had given a clear
>>> mandate, for
>>> > his benefit some of them. A telling example was his failure to secure
>>> proper
>>> > accomodation for himself when we had, some of us millitantly at the
>>> time,
>>> > resolved that he should sign as signatory and secure himself decent
>>> place.
>>> > He was our President and had our undivided support and loyalty. The
>>> list of
>>> > indecision instances is sizeable.
>>> >
>>> > Perhaps the indecision was a result of leadership inexperience and
>>> would be
>>> > cured with time, so we wanted to convince ourselves.
>>> >
>>> > But then other things happened. In post apartheid SA he presided and
>>> > engineered the break up of the PAC into small insignificant pieces.
>>> This was
>>> > very painful and it still is. Two splinter movements sprang out of the
>>> > party, including his attempt at killing PAYCO by introducing some
>>> league
>>> > concept. I personally have little regard for the two individuals who
>>> led
>>> > these splinter groups as they are just as much opportunists. The issue
>>> is
>>> > that the desire for people to break up Parties is always there but
>>> > leadership prevails. In cases where the split is not avoidable,
>>> > organisational performance must absolve you as some form of
>>> 'mitigation'. In
>>> > this instance the party is on a desperate downslide appealing to
>>> mainly the
>>> > few councillor segments most of whom are driven by survivalist
>>> interests.
>>> >
>>> > So having seen all of these, the outcome was always on the cards.
>>> >
>>> > My real issue is what then, and I think we must tread slowly,
>>> carefully and
>>> > robustly drawing from our past experiences.
>>> >
>>> > There is no doubt as there never was, that the Alice concoction was ill
>>> > advised and fatal for the Party. Whatever we do on the leadership
>>> question,
>>> > we must place cadres in charge only once we know fully well what they
>>> stand
>>> > for and what their character make is. It is this aspect we should
>>> engage
>>> > each other accross.
>>> >
>>> > Izwe Lethu iAfrika !
>>> >
>>> > Matome Mashao
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my BlackBerry®
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > From: Tommy ka-Ntando 
>>> > Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
>>> > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:44:41
>>> > To: payco@googlegroups.com
>>

Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Mphiri Masoga]

Good Morning MaAfrika

What happened to PASMA AND ARM?

Regards,

*electronically send no signed - authentic *

Mphiri Masoga
SACWU
T (012) 320 6472 - 5
F (012) 320 2179
F2email: 086 225 4254
Email: mphi...@gmail.com
C 073 182 2656





On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 10 February 2012 at 11:26, Chargein Mabaso 
> wrote:
>
>> Comrades
>>
>> Letlapa lost the court appeal. We have been proved right on the
>> violation of the PAC. But, who will bell the cat within the PAC, and
>> how? Let's wait and see. Power struggles and smear campaigns that
>> always divide the Pan Africanist camp will now show its ugly face
>> instead of focusing at the mammoth task at hand. Some snubbing has
>> already started.
>>
>> Good luck, noble sons and daughters of Soil. You are now facing a big
>> test. Only men and women of vision can shoulder this huge
>> responsibility successfully. We are watching you keenly. Kazi ukuba
>> izozala nkomoni?
>>
>> Izwe Lethu!
>>
>> Charge-in Mabaso
>> Ex- PASO Veteran
>> 0710203554
>>
>> On 2/6/12, mmas...@webmail.co.za  wrote:
>> > The outcome of the Court proceedings in the matter pertaining to the
>> > legality of the Alice Congress was as interesting as has been the many
>> other
>> > legal fracas the PAC has had to endure over the years.
>> >
>> > Whilst this is continued evidence of the Party leadership s inability to
>> > find the key driving anchors, there is another dimension I find
>> attractive
>> > for analysis. The dimension of leadership, and a point has to be made
>> here
>> > that whilst leadership is the single most important glue for
>> organisational
>> > viability, there are many other variables that hold sway to a party s
>> > direction and success.
>> >
>> > And whilst I welcome the Court decision and it must be said well done
>> to the
>> > engineers of it, I must admit that I was not an inch surprised of this
>> > ruling. My preoccupation is on something else I will share later on,
>> herein.
>> >
>> > In less than six months of office it became evident that President
>> Letlapa
>> > (perhaps as he then was) had embarked on a no return path to self
>> > destruction and organisational paralysis. Contrary to what many people
>> > PERCEIVE it increasingly became clear that there was real incapacity to
>> take
>> > decisions including on matters about which we had given a clear
>> mandate, for
>> > his benefit some of them. A telling example was his failure to secure
>> proper
>> > accomodation for himself when we had, some of us millitantly at the
>> time,
>> > resolved that he should sign as signatory and secure himself decent
>> place.
>> > He was our President and had our undivided support and loyalty. The
>> list of
>> > indecision instances is sizeable.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the indecision was a result of leadership inexperience and
>> would be
>> > cured with time, so we wanted to convince ourselves.
>> >
>> > But then other things happened. In post apartheid SA he presided and
>> > engineered the break up of the PAC into small insignificant pieces.
>> This was
>> > very painful and it still is. Two splinter movements sprang out of the
>> > party, including his attempt at killing PAYCO by introducing some league
>> > concept. I personally have little regard for the two individuals who led
>> > these splinter groups as they are just as much opportunists. The issue
>> is
>> > that the desire for people to break up Parties is always there but
>> > leadership prevails. In cases where the split is not avoidable,
>> > organisational performance must absolve you as some form of
>> 'mitigation'. In
>> > this instance the party is on a desperate downslide appealing to mainly
>> the
>> > few councillor segments most of whom are driven by survivalist
>> interests.
>> >
>> > So having seen all of these, the outcome was always on the cards.
>> >
>> > My real issue is what then, and I think we must tread slowly, carefully
>> and
>> > robustly drawing from our past experiences.
>> >
>> > There is no doubt as there never was, that the Alice concoction was ill
>> > advised and fatal for the Party. Whatever we do on the leadership
>> question,
>> > we must place cadres in charge only once we know fully well what they
>> stand
>> > for and what their character make is. It is this aspect we should engage
>> > each other accross.
>> >
>> > Izwe Lethu iAfrika !
>> >
>> > Matome Mashao
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry®
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Tommy ka-Ntando 
>> > Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
>> > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:44:41
>> > To: payco@googlegroups.com
>> > Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
>> > Subject: [PAYCO] Re: [PAC] Gauteng meeting
>> >
>> > Cde Jabu!
>> > I want to thank
>> > you for the initiative you took on an endeavour to coordinate PAC in
>> your
>> > region. Your affords and action are courageous Noble Son and this party
>> > needs
>> > people like you.
>> > However all

Re: [PAYCO] PAC and the Court Ruling

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

On 10 February 2012 at 11:26, Chargein Mabaso  wrote:

> Comrades
>
> Letlapa lost the court appeal. We have been proved right on the
> violation of the PAC. But, who will bell the cat within the PAC, and
> how? Let's wait and see. Power struggles and smear campaigns that
> always divide the Pan Africanist camp will now show its ugly face
> instead of focusing at the mammoth task at hand. Some snubbing has
> already started.
>
> Good luck, noble sons and daughters of Soil. You are now facing a big
> test. Only men and women of vision can shoulder this huge
> responsibility successfully. We are watching you keenly. Kazi ukuba
> izozala nkomoni?
>
> Izwe Lethu!
>
> Charge-in Mabaso
> Ex- PASO Veteran
> 0710203554
>
> On 2/6/12, mmas...@webmail.co.za  wrote:
> > The outcome of the Court proceedings in the matter pertaining to the
> > legality of the Alice Congress was as interesting as has been the many
> other
> > legal fracas the PAC has had to endure over the years.
> >
> > Whilst this is continued evidence of the Party leadership s inability to
> > find the key driving anchors, there is another dimension I find
> attractive
> > for analysis. The dimension of leadership, and a point has to be made
> here
> > that whilst leadership is the single most important glue for
> organisational
> > viability, there are many other variables that hold sway to a party s
> > direction and success.
> >
> > And whilst I welcome the Court decision and it must be said well done to
> the
> > engineers of it, I must admit that I was not an inch surprised of this
> > ruling. My preoccupation is on something else I will share later on,
> herein.
> >
> > In less than six months of office it became evident that President
> Letlapa
> > (perhaps as he then was) had embarked on a no return path to self
> > destruction and organisational paralysis. Contrary to what many people
> > PERCEIVE it increasingly became clear that there was real incapacity to
> take
> > decisions including on matters about which we had given a clear mandate,
> for
> > his benefit some of them. A telling example was his failure to secure
> proper
> > accomodation for himself when we had, some of us millitantly at the time,
> > resolved that he should sign as signatory and secure himself decent
> place.
> > He was our President and had our undivided support and loyalty. The list
> of
> > indecision instances is sizeable.
> >
> > Perhaps the indecision was a result of leadership inexperience and would
> be
> > cured with time, so we wanted to convince ourselves.
> >
> > But then other things happened. In post apartheid SA he presided and
> > engineered the break up of the PAC into small insignificant pieces. This
> was
> > very painful and it still is. Two splinter movements sprang out of the
> > party, including his attempt at killing PAYCO by introducing some league
> > concept. I personally have little regard for the two individuals who led
> > these splinter groups as they are just as much opportunists. The issue is
> > that the desire for people to break up Parties is always there but
> > leadership prevails. In cases where the split is not avoidable,
> > organisational performance must absolve you as some form of
> 'mitigation'. In
> > this instance the party is on a desperate downslide appealing to mainly
> the
> > few councillor segments most of whom are driven by survivalist interests.
> >
> > So having seen all of these, the outcome was always on the cards.
> >
> > My real issue is what then, and I think we must tread slowly, carefully
> and
> > robustly drawing from our past experiences.
> >
> > There is no doubt as there never was, that the Alice concoction was ill
> > advised and fatal for the Party. Whatever we do on the leadership
> question,
> > we must place cadres in charge only once we know fully well what they
> stand
> > for and what their character make is. It is this aspect we should engage
> > each other accross.
> >
> > Izwe Lethu iAfrika !
> >
> > Matome Mashao
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry®
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Tommy ka-Ntando 
> > Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:44:41
> > To: payco@googlegroups.com
> > Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [PAYCO] Re: [PAC] Gauteng meeting
> >
> > Cde Jabu!
> > I want to thank
> > you for the initiative you took on an endeavour to coordinate PAC in your
> > region. Your affords and action are courageous Noble Son and this party
> > needs
> > people like you.
> > However allow
> > me to invite all the Regions of Gauteng (Westrand, Joburg, Tshwane,
> > Ekhurhuleni
> > and Sedibeng Region) to participate in this important deliberation,
> dialogue
> > and
> > engagement which will seek to pave a wayward for us. This will also give
> us
> > time to reflect on the outcomes of the December 2011 Pretoria meeting of
> > former
> > PAYCO, PASMA, AZANYO, PASO and SRC Leaders.
> > We also note
> > the tremendous work that Dr Pheko and his 

Re: [PAYCO] Re: Notice of Extended NEC Meeting and Agenda

[Chargein Mabaso]

enaad; esei...@fedcraw.org.za; Eddy Thobejane; Dave Hammond;
>>> Malesela Mogashwa;
>>> ic...@telkomsa.net; Inqubela Phambili; p...@npswu.org.co.za;
>>> ad...@fedcraw.org.za; generalsecret...@mwasa.org.za;
>>> hoteli...@iburst.co.za; headoff...@sacwu.org.za; legalu...@sacwu.co.za;
>>> brian.gam...@unioinlife.co.za; Admin @ Pac; Alton Mphethi; Michael
>>> Muendane;
>>> sg; dsg; david mabitsela; miles.ndl...@yahoo.com; justice mvakali;
>>> bulanng...@gmail.com; isaacl; Mohlomphegi Mphahlele; Nakaphala Matlala;
>>>  paccapemetro; Mapula Nkoana; Mangaliso Mdhlela;
>>> joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; Ligege Takalani; richardmaoka; L.R. Mbinda;
>>> L Lekgwathi; Wandisile Gajana;
>>> Smoll Zondo; phillip Dhlamini; Mbulelo Raymond; dud...@webmail.co.za;
>>> Billiard Seth
>>> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: Notice of Extended NEC Meeting and Agenda
>>>
>>>
>>> Comrade Eddie.
>>>
>>>
>>> Please nind your language when you talk to another comrades-in-arms.
>>> There is neither absolute honest and absolute truth in what is happening
>>> in the Pan Africanist fold. Your deeds do not serve PAC interest but
>>> those of your faction and enenies, consciously or uncomsciously. We are
>>> busy talking about PAC unity and you guys are busy engaged in personal
>>> and factional agendas. Don't pretend as if you do not know PAC political
>>> dynamics is at the moment. Your NEC is also a NEC for a particular
>>> faction too. It is not better than other PAC factions. Currently, your
>>> faction (Mbinda-Moloto faction) is canerous, reactionary and
>>> countrrevolution. It is counterrevolutionary and reactionary for any
>>> member to be a stumblig block (opposed /
>>> obstacle) to Party unity. Genuine loyal PAC leaders ought run the Party
>>> through properly constituted PAC conferences and congresses as
>>> stipulated by the PAC Constitution, not through neocolonial courts and
>>> factional conferences and congresses. What you are doing is tantamount
>>> to working for our enemies, consciously or unconsciously. If the PAC
>>> unity fails because of you, comrades, be rest assured, history will
>>> judge you harshly, both individually and collectively. It will be unkind
>>> to you as it did to other wrong elemnts in the Party throughout the
>>> political life of PAC. Continue messing the Party at your risk and
>>> peril! Remember the Oath of Allegation you took. It still applies.
>>> History will be judge unkindly. Narius Moloto
>>> has no clean hands as you think. He played a major in the destruction of
>>> PAC
>>> to where it is today. He cannot pretend otherwise. Once beaten twice
>>> shy. Guys, you can run but you cannot hide. You can't fool us again.
>>> We are watching your deeds with keen interest! Continue, comrades,
>>> messing the PAC. We will be observers (Qubani sizakubamb'ikhuba!)
>>>
>>> Izwe Lethu!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26/05/2016, eddie mfulwane  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cde Apa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm extremely disturbed with you sending me these rubbish to me. I
>>>> know you are normal and a man of your age is expected to have some
>>>> level of maturity. Continuing with this non existing dream that you
>>>> are PAC or worse PAC leadership comes to me as a concern that old men
>>>>  who are suppose to be busy with family responsibilities are busy
>>>> chasing shadows.
>>>>
>>>> I hope its for the last time you include my email in these foolish
>>>> non existing dream. *GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD'S...YOU HAVE LOST AND
>>>> THEREFORE NO LONGER PAC LEADERSHIP!!*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seating here looking at what you call an agenda, I see you talking of
>>>>  Elections and IEC related matters and I wonder where are you going
>>>> to submit the names, or anything you resolve on in this joke of a
>>>> meeting.
>>>>
>>>> President Luthando Mbinda and other leaders of other parties are busy
>>>>  with IEC processes ...setting timetables and guidelines and you guys
>>>>  are still lying to each other, that there is some little hope
>>>> somewhere that you will create some confusion and submit whatever you
>>>>  intend to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Never again should you confuse me for being part of your dream
>>>> I'm
>

Re: [PAYCO] Re: Notice of Extended NEC Meeting and Agenda

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Eddie.

Please nind your language when you talk to another comrades-in-arms.
There is neither absolute honest and absolute truth in what is
happening in the Pan Africanist fold. Your deeds do not serve PAC
interest but those of your faction and enenies, consciously or
uncomsciously. We are busy talking about PAC unity and you guys are
busy engaged in personal and factional agendas. Don't pretend as if
you do not know PAC political dynamics is at the moment. Your NEC is
also a NEC for a particular faction too. It is not better than other
PAC factions. Currently, your faction (Mbinda-Moloto faction) is
canerous, reactionary and countrrevolution. It is counterrevolutionary
and reactionary for any member to be a stumblig block (opposed /
obstacle) to Party unity. Genuine loyal PAC leaders ought run the
Party through properly constituted PAC conferences and congresses as
stipulated by the PAC Constitution, not through neocolonial courts and
factional conferences and congresses. What you are doing is tantamount
to working for our enemies, consciously or unconsciously. If the PAC
unity fails because of you, comrades, be rest assured, history will
judge you harshly, both individually and collectively. It will be
unkind to you as it did to other  wrong elemnts in the Party
throughout the political life of PAC. Continue messing the Party at
your risk and peril! Remember the Oath of Allegation you took. It
still applies. History will be judge unkindly. Narius Moloto has no
clean hands as you think. He played a major in the destruction of PAC
to where it is today. He cannot pretend otherwise. Once beaten twice
shy. Guys, you can run but you cannot hide. You can't fool us again.
We are watching your deeds with keen interest! Continue, comrades,
messing the PAC. We will be observers (Qubani sizakubamb'ikhuba!)

Izwe Lethu!

On 26/05/2016, eddie mfulwane  wrote:
> Cde Apa
>
> I'm extremely disturbed with you sending me these rubbish to me. I know you
> are normal and a man of your age is expected to have some level of
> maturity. Continuing with this non existing dream that you are PAC or worse
> PAC leadership comes to me as a concern that old men who are suppose to be
> busy with family responsibilities are busy chasing shadows.
>
> I hope its for the last time you include my email in these foolish non
> existing dream. *GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD'S...YOU HAVE LOST AND THEREFORE
> NO LONGER PAC LEADERSHIP!!*
>
> Seating here looking at what you call an agenda, I see you talking of
> Elections and IEC related matters and I wonder where are you going to
> submit the names, or anything you resolve on in this joke of a meeting.
>
> President Luthando Mbinda and other leaders of other parties are busy with
> IEC processes ...setting timetables and guidelines and you guys are still
> lying to each other, that there is some little hope somewhere that you will
> create some confusion and submit whatever you intend to.
>
>
> Never again should you confuse me for being part of your dream I'm a
> sober PAC member who knows who and what PAC is and that is nothing like
> you. Get a life or be bold enough to go start your own little organisation.
>
> *Oooh as a South African citizen you are welcome to join the PAC LGE 2016
> Manifesto Launch on the 28th May 2016 at Attrigeville @ 10H00 and VOTE PAC
> on 03rd August 2016.*
>
>
> Yours in PAC behind the leadership of President Luthando Mbinda
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:20 AM, vakele mkandawire 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Kindly find attached Notice of Extended NEC Meeting and Agenda.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Apa Pooe
>> Sec for Information and Publicity
>> Mobile Number: 083 9402 755
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *RE.Mfulwane*
>
>
>
>
> *Pan-Africanist Youth Congress Office Of the Secretary Generalcde Eddie
> MfulwaneCell: 084 376 6634*
>
> --
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Re: [PAYCO] Re: Zephania Lekoame Mothopeng (1913 – 1990) entire adult life dedicated to Political, Economic and Social Emancipation of Indigenous Africans in Azania (South Africa)

[Mphiri Masoga]

Good Afternoon Prof


Thank you Prof

Much appreciated.

Regards,

*electronically send no signed - authentic *

Mphiri Masoga
SACWU
T (012) 320 6472 - 5
F (012) 320 2179
F2email: 086 225 4254
Email: mphi...@gmail.com
C 073 182 2656





On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 12:09 AM, vu...@telkomsa.net 
wrote:

>
>
> This paper is a contribution towards:
> 1. Zeph House in Orlando West to be visited by PAC members the youth and
> Adults.
> 2. Political Rallies also to be organized around Zephs political life and
> struggle.
>
> Regards
> Prof. SR Shabalala
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [PAYCO]

[mmbarahk]

Izwelethu Son of Afrika




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Re: [PAYCO] Honouring the life and legacy of the late comrade Bennie Bunsee

[Pule Maqekoane]

Dear comrade Hulisani,

Thanks for making me aware that comrade Jaki Seroke is currently penning
the tribute on the late comrade Bennie Bunsee.

I was not aware!

Please be informed that the first person I contacted in regard to the
honouring of the life and legacy of the late comrade Bennie Bunsee is none
but comrade Jaki Seroke.

Upon publication of his contribution, I will be one of the first to read.

Thanks for the tip!

Izwe Lethu

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Hulisani  wrote:

> Cde. Pule
>
> Please note that Mayihlome news www.mayihlomenews.co.za will be
> publishing a tribute to Cde. Bennie Bunsee penned by Cde. Jaki Seroke.
>
> Izwelethu! I Afurika!
> Hulisani Mmbara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:12:05 +0200
> Subject: [PAYCO] Honouring the life and legacy of the late comrade Bennie
> Bunsee
> From: maqeko...@gmail.com
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
>
>
> FAMILY, FRIENDS, COLLEAGUES, AND COMRADES
>
> *BENNIE BUNSEE – A LIFE REMEMBERED*
>
> Saddened by our collective loss, I am willing, with your blessing and
> support, to continue in his honour, the tradition of sharing and
> interaction in the newsgroup “Wake Up and Smell the Coffee.” Through this
> initiative Bennie brought together revolutionaries with diverse thoughts.
> Unless the idea to continue the initiative has already been set in motion
> by others; given first the blessing of Bennie’s immediate family, I have
> other ideas as well which, I believe, will place in perspective the
> contribution of our friend and comrade in our continuing struggle for true
> emancipation.
>
>
>
> *INTRODUCTION:*
>
>
>
> My name is Pule Maqekoane. I am a long-time admirer and reader of
> *IKWEZI,* the publication which, under Bennie Bunsee has served to
> enlighten so many of us, on a range of topics. I first met Bennie late in
> 1985 when our exile paths converged outside the borders of Azania.
>
> Bennie lived in the United Kingdom, while I was based in the Hanseatic
> City of Hamburg, West Germany.
>
> I considered Comrade Bennie Bunsee, as the most appropriate revolutionary
> of our time, and nominated him to deliver the keynote address of the
> campaign in support of independent Black Trade Unions in occupied Azania.
> Comrade Bennie Bunsee, following this address, left an indelible memory in
> the hearts of the German internationalist audience.
>
> Please share your thoughts with me, and, if you will, your blessing, to
> keep the group together, and the memory of Bennie Bunsee alive.
>
>
>
> Yours in struggle
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Wake Up and Smell the Coffee*
>
> *Bennie Bunsee Initiative*
>
>
> --
> Pule Maqekoane
> (Co-ordinator)
>
> Makhaya Digital Divide
>
>
> Cell: +27 84 97 487 44
> Office: +27 11 909 4275
>
>
> 
> *CONFIDENTIALITY & DISCLAIMER NOTICE*
>
> This message contains specific, confidential or proprietary information
> for exclusive use by the individual/entities to whom/which it has been
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>
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RE: [PAYCO] Honouring the life and legacy of the late comrade Bennie Bunsee

[Hulisani]

Cde. Pule 
 
Please note that Mayihlome news www.mayihlomenews.co.za will be publishing a 
tribute to Cde. Bennie Bunsee penned by Cde. Jaki Seroke.

Izwelethu! I Afurika!
Hulisani Mmbara
 

 
 
 
 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:12:05 +0200
Subject: [PAYCO] Honouring the life and legacy of the late comrade Bennie Bunsee
From: maqeko...@gmail.com
To: payco@googlegroups.com



FAMILY,
FRIENDS, COLLEAGUES, AND COMRADES

BENNIE
BUNSEE – A LIFE REMEMBERED

Saddened by our collective loss, I am
willing, with your blessing and support, to continue in his honour, the
tradition of sharing and interaction in the newsgroup “Wake Up and Smell the
Coffee.” Through this initiative Bennie brought together revolutionaries with
diverse thoughts. Unless the idea to continue the initiative has already been
set in motion by others; given first the blessing of Bennie’s immediate family,
I have other ideas as well which, I believe, will place in perspective the
contribution of our friend and comrade in our continuing struggle for true
emancipation.

 

INTRODUCTION:

 

My name is Pule Maqekoane. I am a long-time
admirer and reader of IKWEZI, the
publication which, under Bennie Bunsee has served to enlighten so many of us,
on a range of topics. I first met Bennie late in 1985 when our exile paths 
converged outside the borders of Azania. 

Bennie lived in the United Kingdom,
while I was based in the Hanseatic City of Hamburg, West Germany. 

I considered Comrade Bennie Bunsee, as
the most appropriate revolutionary of our time, and nominated him to deliver
the keynote address of the campaign in support of independent Black Trade
Unions in occupied Azania. Comrade Bennie Bunsee, following this address, left
an indelible memory in the hearts of the German internationalist audience. 

Please share your thoughts with me,
and, if you will, your blessing, to keep the group together, and the memory of
Bennie Bunsee alive.

 

Yours in struggle

 




 

Wake
Up and Smell the Coffee

Bennie
Bunsee Initiative


-- 
Pule Maqekoane
(Co-ordinator)

Makhaya Digital Divide


Cell: +27 84 97 487 44
Office: +27 11 909 4275


CONFIDENTIALITY & DISCLAIMER
NOTICE

 

This message contains specific, confidential or
proprietary information for exclusive use by the individual/entities to
whom/which it has been addressed. If you or your company is not the intended
recipient kindly notify the sender immediately. Any use or dissemination of the
contents of this message is strictly prohibited.

 

The content of this message does not constitute a
commitment or an offer by Makhaya Digital Divide cc, except where
expressly provided for in a written agreement. Any views and/or opinions
expressed by the sender do not necessarily represent those of the Makhaya 
Digital Divide cc.

 

Makhaya Digital Divide cc do not accept
liability or legal responsibility for the contents of this message nor any
errors in or omissions to the content of electronically generated
communications, or any loss or damages howsoever caused, arising as a result of
reliance on the contents or unauthorised use thereof. Should verification be
required, kindly request the sender to do so.

 


Makhaya Digital Divide cc have taken steps
to ensure that this message is free from computer viruses, but the
responsibility of detection and prevention lies solely with the recipient. 
Makhaya Digital Divide cc  does not warrant the integrity of the data
transmitted, nor that it has not been corrupted nor previously intercepted
and/or tampered with.









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Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com



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Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

President Mugabe was sabotage by his own party to expose him or even
to send a clear signal to those who don't want him to step down within
Zanu Pf for their own good reasons. That is clear not to my mind.
Let's wait and see the next signal.

On the point of eloquent leaders, i have a different view. Most of
eloquent leaders do not go beyond eloquence nowadays. Most of them are
spineless. They cannot stand alone on principle. Unprincipled leaders
cannot make in a party. Many of them find it difficult to lead the
Party and give up easily. They can be crowd pullers outside the party
but leading the party does not end there. Take the example of Mandela
and Mbeki. When Mbeki took over, we doubted him if he will reach
Mandela's crow pulling capability. My own assessment is Mbeki was a
stronger leaders even more than Mandela as far as leading the ANC. He
could handle ANC dynamics better than Mandela but he was not eloquent
or charismatic like Mandela. Moreso, I worked in the past with highly
chariSmatic and eloquence PASO and AZANYU leaders. Many of them found
it difficulty to lead an organisation. Leading is a another ball game
altogether. That is why many parties employ eloquent speakers as
spokespersons, ot President of the Party. A good leader must excell in
uniting and leading the party properly into the theatre of struggle.
He / she must master how to exercise his /her powers effective and
efficiently as a leader without abusing them.  He must a true
democratic centralist who knows the limits of democratic centralism.
He must neither be a dictator nor spineless democrat. Furthermore, he
must not try to imitate another leader's style of leadership. He /she
must himself / herself. There a few such people in any party. At the
same, he must be part of a revolutionary collective, not a faction.

On 9/21/15, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:
>
>
> Revolutionary greetings all,
>
>
> Reading an already delivered speech by president Mugabe is definitely not a
> transgression, but remember State of the Nation addresses are simply not
> delivered off the cuff, right? Imbedded in them are hopes and inspirations
> of the Nation; they encampus the country's vision thus making the incident
> not trivial. Some leaders even memorize them so to appear to be orators ala
> Cicero, that's what many of them do; I suspect Obama does the same, despite
> being not indictable to read a wrong speech but this faux pas can't be
> regarded as a piccadillo for reasons aforementioned.
>
>
>
> Having said that, perhaps a phraseologically self short-charging was used by
> saying: "He must call it quits." These words were used with the knowledge
> that ZANU isn't just a one man show, president Mugabe certainly has fidus
> Achates in his party some whom he was in the trenches with he can pass the
> baton to. If he feels he could still run the relay without handing over the
> baton to a new energized sprinter, it then smacks of scepticism for his own
> comrades so mishaps like reading anachronistic speeches will continue. Where
> he mentally agile, as he is known to be, he was supposed to rehash the
> speech triggered by an engram, no one would have noticed and we wouldn't be
> having this debate today.
>
>
>
> It will be naive to think that he isn't been taken advantage of because of
> his age. By whom it may be asked? Not by the Imperialist West, certainly not
> by compradors in the MDC but by his own comrades in ZANU because such
> speeches are not simply put on a lectern for a reader, even eloquent
> preachers visit the Bible in the absence of congregants and pretend the next
> day to be au fait with the gospel when delivering a homily.
>
>
>
> Fears that if he steps down there shall be political upheaval in Zimbabwe
> and that may spill over to South Africa. Then this is like a deferment of
> the inevitable because president Mugabe is not immortal. As we speak a
> countless number of our Zimbabwe brothers and sisters are in South Africa
> some whom white settlers take advantage of because of their illegal status.
>
> It's time president Mugabe handed the baton to a trusted comrade who would
> run the mile not because of him having read a previously delivered speech
> but of his dotage seen by us ‘his admirers’ and I repeat ‘HIS ADMIRERS.’
>
>
>
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: 21 September 2015 08:14 AM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>
> Dear Comrades
>
> There are two ways to look at this. Oratory goes a long way in drawing mass
> appeal. All organizations that have succeeded had the oratory being integral
> to their success. People used to walk long distances to listen to their
> leaders sp

RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Sebenzile Mlaza]

Revolutionary greetings all,


Reading an already delivered speech by president Mugabe is definitely not a 
transgression, but remember State of the Nation addresses are simply not 
delivered off the cuff, right? Imbedded in them are hopes and inspirations of 
the Nation; they encampus the country's vision thus making the incident not 
trivial. Some leaders even memorize them so to appear to be orators ala Cicero, 
that's what many of them do; I suspect Obama does the same, despite being not 
indictable to read a wrong speech but this faux pas can't be regarded as a 
piccadillo for reasons aforementioned.



Having said that, perhaps a phraseologically self short-charging was used by 
saying: "He must call it quits." These words were used with the knowledge that 
ZANU isn't just a one man show, president Mugabe certainly has fidus Achates in 
his party some whom he was in the trenches with he can pass the baton to. If he 
feels he could still run the relay without handing over the baton to a new 
energized sprinter, it then smacks of scepticism for his own comrades so 
mishaps like reading anachronistic speeches will continue. Where he mentally 
agile, as he is known to be, he was supposed to rehash the speech triggered by 
an engram, no one would have noticed and we wouldn't be having this debate 
today.



It will be naive to think that he isn't been taken advantage of because of his 
age. By whom it may be asked? Not by the Imperialist West, certainly not by 
compradors in the MDC but by his own comrades in ZANU because such speeches are 
not simply put on a lectern for a reader, even eloquent preachers visit the 
Bible in the absence of congregants and pretend the next day to be au fait with 
the gospel when delivering a homily.



Fears that if he steps down there shall be political upheaval in Zimbabwe and 
that may spill over to South Africa. Then this is like a deferment of the 
inevitable because president Mugabe is not immortal. As we speak a countless 
number of our Zimbabwe brothers and sisters are in South Africa some whom white 
settlers take advantage of because of their illegal status.

It's time president Mugabe handed the baton to a trusted comrade who would run 
the mile not because of him having read a previously delivered speech but of 
his dotage seen by us ‘his admirers’ and I repeat ‘HIS ADMIRERS.’



From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 21 September 2015 08:14 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Dear Comrades

There are two ways to look at this. Oratory goes a long way in drawing mass 
appeal. All organizations that have succeeded had the oratory being integral to 
their success. People used to walk long distances to listen to their leaders 
speak with pep and zest, now they are bused only to listen to gobbledygook by 
uninspiring orators. Look no further than us if you want to see this in actual 
context.

Mugabe on the other hand is a type of speaker whom when he speaks, the world 
listens, the detractors always fasten their seatlbelts that is why it was even 
easy to hype up the situation surrounding his address. Always clear, eloquent 
and caustic to a certain extent but this did not excuse him from familiarising 
himself with the speech prior to delivery. With that said there can be other 
convincing reasons for daring Mugabe to resign but speech delivery is the least 
of them.

Meanwhile, in the Pan Afrikanist block I cannot remember the last time we had a 
speaker who could move audiences both within and outside his constituency. You 
can have all the requisite theory but if it lacks delivery of a professional 
punch it is as good as dull. Let us continue reflecting on mass communication 
being an uncompromising leadership character trait.


On Sunday, September 20, 2015 10:04 PM, Linda Ndebele 
mailto:kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za>> wrote:

Surely comrade Mmbara the Deputy President is fit for leading the country and 
ZANU-PF as President. Surely the liberation of Zimbabwe was a collective effort 
of Zanu-PF and the people of Zimbabwe. It can't be Mugabe forever even when all 
can see that age is truly overtaking him. ZANU-PF has a duty to ensure ofcourse 
that his legacy is not undone but all indications indicate that the Oldman has 
reached his ultimate point, he can't give anything better.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

From: Hulisani mailto:mmbar...@hotmail.com>>
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:08:07 +0200
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE 
GROUPmailto:payco@googlegroups.com>>
ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- P

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

I get your point comrade Mawethu but it is not the fault of our generation that 
we have been unable to produce leaders who speak with 'pep and zest'. Infact we 
have produced such leaders but have been suffocated by Old Guard who see them 
as a threat as opposed to be seen as a new breed of leadership that must be 
nurtured and nourished to take the baton forward. Can name a list of our finest 
orators that we have produced over the years but that were frustrated by the 
Old Guard to gain necessary prominence. 

I must say I never expected a President to read a wrong speech without 
realizing, I can forgive the illiterate JZ if he can make such a blunder but 
not a leader of Mugabe's stature and level of education. Mugabe's blundering 
has far reaching impact noting his stature to the world and how his speeches 
are listened throughout the world by both enemies and friends. We just can't 
afford such blunders. I blame it on age and his support staff in the Office of 
the Presidency.


Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" 

Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 06:14:21 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Dear Comrades
There are two ways to look at this. Oratory goes a long way in drawing mass 
appeal. All organizations that have succeeded had the oratory being integral to 
their success. People used to walk long distances to listen to their leaders 
speak with pep and zest, now they are bused only to listen to gobbledygook by 
uninspiring orators. Look no further than us if you want to see this in actual 
context.
Mugabe on the other hand is a type of speaker whom when he speaks, the world 
listens, the detractors always fasten their seatlbelts that is why it was even 
easy to hype up the situation surrounding his address. Always clear, eloquent 
and caustic to a certain extent but this did not excuse him from familiarising 
himself with the speech prior to delivery. With that said there can be other 
convincing reasons for daring Mugabe to resign but speech delivery is the least 
of them.
Meanwhile, in the Pan Afrikanist block I cannot remember the last time we had a 
speaker who could move audiences both within and outside his constituency. You 
can have all the requisite theory but if it lacks delivery of a professional 
punch it is as good as dull. Let us continue reflecting on mass communication 
being an uncompromising leadership character trait. 


 On Sunday, September 20, 2015 10:04 PM, Linda Ndebele 
 wrote:
   

 #yiv0129008793 #yiv0129008793 --.yiv0129008793hmmessage 
P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv0129008793 
body.yiv0129008793hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv0129008793 
Surely comrade Mmbara the Deputy President is fit for leading the country and 
ZANU-PF as President. Surely the liberation of Zimbabwe was a collective effort 
of Zanu-PF and the people of Zimbabwe. It can't be Mugabe forever even when all 
can see that age is truly overtaking him. ZANU-PF has a duty to ensure ofcourse 
that his legacy is not undone but all indications indicate that the Oldman has 
reached his ultimate point, he can't give anything better.Sent via my 
BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!From:  Hulisani 
Sender:  payco@googlegroups.comDate: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 
20:08:07 +0200To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE 
GROUPReplyTo:  payco@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: 
[PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the 
succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable departure 
of Mugabe and his peers. 

 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
> 
> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. 
> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things 
> that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the 
> bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without 
> realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that 
> embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded with tribal 
> hatred recently. 
> 
> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
> and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
> Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he 
> should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If 
> the President reads his speeches with compreh

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

['Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

Dear Comrades
There are two ways to look at this. Oratory goes a long way in drawing mass 
appeal. All organizations that have succeeded had the oratory being integral to 
their success. People used to walk long distances to listen to their leaders 
speak with pep and zest, now they are bused only to listen to gobbledygook by 
uninspiring orators. Look no further than us if you want to see this in actual 
context.
Mugabe on the other hand is a type of speaker whom when he speaks, the world 
listens, the detractors always fasten their seatlbelts that is why it was even 
easy to hype up the situation surrounding his address. Always clear, eloquent 
and caustic to a certain extent but this did not excuse him from familiarising 
himself with the speech prior to delivery. With that said there can be other 
convincing reasons for daring Mugabe to resign but speech delivery is the least 
of them.
Meanwhile, in the Pan Afrikanist block I cannot remember the last time we had a 
speaker who could move audiences both within and outside his constituency. You 
can have all the requisite theory but if it lacks delivery of a professional 
punch it is as good as dull. Let us continue reflecting on mass communication 
being an uncompromising leadership character trait. 


 On Sunday, September 20, 2015 10:04 PM, Linda Ndebele 
 wrote:
   

 #yiv0129008793 #yiv0129008793 --.yiv0129008793hmmessage 
P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv0129008793 
body.yiv0129008793hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv0129008793 
Surely comrade Mmbara the Deputy President is fit for leading the country and 
ZANU-PF as President. Surely the liberation of Zimbabwe was a collective effort 
of Zanu-PF and the people of Zimbabwe. It can't be Mugabe forever even when all 
can see that age is truly overtaking him. ZANU-PF has a duty to ensure ofcourse 
that his legacy is not undone but all indications indicate that the Oldman has 
reached his ultimate point, he can't give anything better.Sent via my 
BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!From:  Hulisani 
Sender:  payco@googlegroups.comDate: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 
20:08:07 +0200To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE 
GROUPReplyTo:  payco@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: 
[PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the 
succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable departure 
of Mugabe and his peers. 

 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
> 
> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. 
> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things 
> that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the 
> bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without 
> realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that 
> embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded with tribal 
> hatred recently. 
> 
> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
> and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
> Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he 
> should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If 
> the President reads his speeches with comprehension he could have realised on 
> the first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he couldn't recall because of 
> age.
> 
> I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent. When 
> our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily handed the 
> baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton. 
> 
> Izwe lethu!
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chargein Mabaso 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46 
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
> Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
> media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
> drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .
> 
> Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
> read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
> his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
> speech writer who is paid to do that? I also have the same question.
> Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, secu

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

Surely comrade Mmbara the Deputy President is fit for leading the country and 
ZANU-PF as President. Surely the liberation of Zimbabwe was a collective effort 
of Zanu-PF and the people of Zimbabwe. It can't be Mugabe forever even when all 
can see that age is truly overtaking him. ZANU-PF has a duty to ensure ofcourse 
that his legacy is not undone but all indications indicate that the Oldman has 
reached his ultimate point, he can't give anything better.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Hulisani 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:08:07 
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the 
succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable departure 
of Mugabe and his peers. 

 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
> 
> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. 
> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things 
> that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the 
> bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without 
> realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that 
> embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded with tribal 
> hatred recently. 
> 
> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
> and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
> Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he 
> should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If 
> the President reads his speeches with comprehension he could have realised on 
> the first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he couldn't recall because of 
> age.
> 
> I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent. When 
> our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily handed the 
> baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton. 
> 
> Izwe lethu!
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chargein Mabaso 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46 
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
> Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
> media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
> drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .
> 
> Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
> read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
> his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
> speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
> Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
> and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
> (reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
> this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
> is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
> number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
> goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
> interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
> Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
> and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
> Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
> sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
> country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
> did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
> surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
> that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
> structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
> inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
> the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
> few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
> of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
> collapdsed and rushed to h

RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Hulisani]

Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the 
succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable departure 
of Mugabe and his peers. 

 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
> 
> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. 
> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things 
> that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the 
> bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without 
> realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that 
> embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded with tribal 
> hatred recently. 
> 
> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
> and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
> Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he 
> should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If 
> the President reads his speeches with comprehension he could have realised on 
> the first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he couldn't recall because of 
> age.
> 
> I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent. When 
> our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily handed the 
> baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton. 
> 
> Izwe lethu!
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chargein Mabaso 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46 
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
> Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
> media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
> drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .
> 
> Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
> read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
> his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
> speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
> Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
> and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
> (reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
> this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
> is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
> number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
> goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
> interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
> Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
> and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
> Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
> sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
> country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
> did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
> surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
> that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
> structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
> inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
> the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
> few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
> of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
> collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
> gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
> very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
> this one? My guess is as good as yours.
> 
> On 9/19/15, Hulisani  wrote:
> > Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of
> > the debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of
> > urgency. I think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so
> > far as Mugabe is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that
> > Mugabe has a communication team that assist him with these issues who must
> > make sure the president has the right speech for the right occasion, 

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. That 
Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things that 
happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the bathroom, 
getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without realizing. Oflate 
the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that embarrasses all of us, 
example was when he made statements loaded with tribal hatred recently. 

Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he should 
have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If the 
President reads his speeches with comprehension he could have realised on the 
first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he couldn't recall because of age.

I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent. When 
our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily handed the 
baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton. 

Izwe lethu!
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Chargein Mabaso 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Comrades,

Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .

Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
(reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
this one? My guess is as good as yours.

On 9/19/15, Hulisani  wrote:
> Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of
> the debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of
> urgency. I think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so
> far as Mugabe is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that
> Mugabe has a communication team that assist him with these issues who must
> make sure the president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether
> or not he personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is
> that someone will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before
> Mugabe ascends to the podium. This despite whether or not the president has
> kept a copy for himself. In my view, if anyone must go with immediate
> effect, it is definitely the speech writer or the head of his communication
> for being casual and not taking their salaried jobs seriously. Even then I
> would say firing who ever is responsible for this will amount to some kind
> of heavy handedness. Overall I think the issue of reading the wrong speech
> is for all intents and purposes trivial. I'm sure for any president, this
> would be the least oversight, which would not warrant calls for a leader to
>

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrades,

Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .

Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
(reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
this one? My guess is as good as yours.

On 9/19/15, Hulisani  wrote:
> Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of
> the debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of
> urgency. I think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so
> far as Mugabe is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that
> Mugabe has a communication team that assist him with these issues who must
> make sure the president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether
> or not he personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is
> that someone will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before
> Mugabe ascends to the podium. This despite whether or not the president has
> kept a copy for himself. In my view, if anyone must go with immediate
> effect, it is definitely the speech writer or the head of his communication
> for being casual and not taking their salaried jobs seriously. Even then I
> would say firing who ever is responsible for this will amount to some kind
> of heavy handedness. Overall I think the issue of reading the wrong speech
> is for all intents and purposes trivial. I'm sure for any president, this
> would be the least oversight, which would not warrant calls for a leader to
> step down. I am not sure if age has anything to do with it. Even if it has,
> in the bigger scheme of things (I insist reading a wrong speech is a minor
> oversight, it is not even a transgression), does the reading of the speech
> outweighs all other political considerations for retaining the leader? I
> think not, instead my view is that the media has made sure to sensationalize
> this issue as they always do.
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:13:28 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
>> From: chargein...@gmail.com
>> To: payco@googlegroups.com
>>
>> It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
>> will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
>> His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
>> one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
>> death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
>> abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
>> that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
>> to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
>> disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
>> going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
>> even when the 

RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Hulisani]

Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of the 
debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of urgency. I 
think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so far as Mugabe 
is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that Mugabe has a 
communication team that assist him with these issues who must make sure the 
president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether or not he 
personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is that someone 
will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before Mugabe ascends to 
the podium. This despite whether or not the president has kept a copy for 
himself. In my view, if anyone must go with immediate effect, it is definitely 
the speech writer or the head of his communication for being casual and not 
taking their salaried jobs seriously. Even then I would say firing who ever is 
responsible for this will amount to some kind of heavy handedness. Overall I 
think the issue of reading the wrong speech is for all intents and purposes 
trivial. I'm sure for any president, this would be the least oversight, which 
would not warrant calls for a leader to step down. I am not sure if age has 
anything to do with it. Even if it has, in the bigger scheme of things (I 
insist reading a wrong speech is a minor oversight, it is not even a 
transgression), does the reading of the speech outweighs all other political 
considerations for retaining the leader? I think not, instead my view is that 
the media has made sure to sensationalize this issue as they always do. 

 
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:13:28 +0200
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> From: chargein...@gmail.com
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> 
> It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
> will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
> His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
> one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
> death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
> abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
> that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
> to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
> disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
> going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
> even when the writing is on the wall for him. He will only voluntarily
> step down when his Inner Circle in his faction see it it fit. They
> know his downfall is also theirs. There will be regime change in the
> PAC too. Bangamafanankosi lamadoda! That's it. He cannot abandfone
> them at this stage. Not NOW! Thami Plaatjies did that. His reputation
> went to zero. His is now a declared traitor to his comrades-in-arms.
> Letlapa does not want to be in the same boat. It's about reputation,
> nothing more.
> 
> Understand Mugabe's dilemma comrade. Those who want him to go are
> vying for his inner circle and Zanu- his lehacy too. Remember: When
> you fire the CEO, you must also fire his inner circle too. You saw
> what happened Egyptian President Mubarak and his inner circle after he
> stepped down. They were under severe attack. Hence, the overthrow of
> the democratically elected President Morsi. Mubarak's regime made
> wrong calculation. Mugabe learned a lesson from President Mubara and
> Gaddafi. He doesn want the same to happen to him. I am sure President
> Zuma has similar fears. His enemies will call for his arrest for his
> role in Matabeleland crisis. Another problem is when Mugabe steps
> down, it will be chaos in Zim. Mugabe is a uniting figure for both
> Zanu and Zimbabwean people. If I was a Zanu member, I will oppose the
> move to force Mugabe to retire without a clear successor.
> Unforetunately, such a successor will not be Mugabe 2 You saw what
> happened to PAC when we said Makwetu must go without succession plan
> in place. It was and is still chaos in PAC till today. We all created
> the PAC chaos unaware and unconsciously. That is why we must all bear
> the consequences now.  It's our mess. We are to blame. PAC went from
> bad to worsE. Same will happen in Zimbabwe. If he dies in power,
> Zimbabweans can handle the transition with care and with the sensitive
> it deserves unlike if he resigns. Resigning will work in the interest
> of the enemies of Zimbabwe. Unfortunate, Zanu is losing good cadres
> like Joyce Mujuru in the meantime. Careerists, opportunists and agents
> are definitely exploitinbg the situation in Zimbabwe for their own
> hidden agendas. The true is, whether we like it or not,  the chaos in
> Zim will spill over to South Africa wit

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Chargein Mabaso]

It is not as easy as like that for him, comrade. If Mugabe goes, there
will be political upheaval in Zimbabwe. It will mean regime change.
His Inner Circle will have to go too. That will be costly. It is the
one forcing him to remain in power. It's a political marriage unti
death. .even if he wants to go but they are definitely telling not to
abandone them. They want Mugabe to rule until his last day on earth so
that they can turn him into a deity like Mandela, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung
to continue ruling and scare political rivals opposing them as
disrespecting Mugabe's last will and vision. This is exactly what is
going in PAC. Letlapa Mphahlele may be forced to remain PAC President
even when the writing is on the wall for him. He will only voluntarily
step down when his Inner Circle in his faction see it it fit. They
know his downfall is also theirs. There will be regime change in the
PAC too. Bangamafanankosi lamadoda! That's it. He cannot abandfone
them at this stage. Not NOW! Thami Plaatjies did that. His reputation
went to zero. His is now a declared traitor to his comrades-in-arms.
Letlapa does not want to be in the same boat. It's about reputation,
nothing more.

Understand Mugabe's dilemma comrade. Those who want him to go are
vying for his inner circle and Zanu- his lehacy too. Remember: When
you fire the CEO, you must also fire his inner circle too. You saw
what happened Egyptian President Mubarak and his inner circle after he
stepped down. They were under severe attack. Hence, the overthrow of
the democratically elected President Morsi. Mubarak's regime made
wrong calculation. Mugabe learned a lesson from President Mubara and
Gaddafi. He doesn want the same to happen to him. I am sure President
Zuma has similar fears. His enemies will call for his arrest for his
role in Matabeleland crisis. Another problem is when Mugabe steps
down, it will be chaos in Zim. Mugabe is a uniting figure for both
Zanu and Zimbabwean people. If I was a Zanu member, I will oppose the
move to force Mugabe to retire without a clear successor.
Unforetunately, such a successor will not be Mugabe 2 You saw what
happened to PAC when we said Makwetu must go without succession plan
in place. It was and is still chaos in PAC till today. We all created
the PAC chaos unaware and unconsciously. That is why we must all bear
the consequences now.  It's our mess. We are to blame. PAC went from
bad to worsE. Same will happen in Zimbabwe. If he dies in power,
Zimbabweans can handle the transition with care and with the sensitive
it deserves unlike if he resigns. Resigning will work in the interest
of the enemies of Zimbabwe. Unfortunate, Zanu is losing good cadres
like Joyce Mujuru in the meantime. Careerists, opportunists and agents
are definitely exploitinbg the situation in Zimbabwe for their own
hidden agendas. The true is, whether we like it or not,  the chaos in
Zim will spill over to South Africa with positive and negative results
depending on the balance of forces in our country. It's a great
challenge, indeed.

On 9/18/15, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:
>
>
> Revolutionary greetings to all,
>
> President Robert Mugabe delivered a State of the Nation Speech he had
> previously delivered.
> It's time our good president calls it quits, this is a sign of senility.
>
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Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

It was indeed the most embarrassing moment. Succession has never been this 
urgent. The Old Man has played his part, let him hand over the baton.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Sebenzile Mlaza 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 06:53:47 
To: 'payco@googlegroups.com'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.



Revolutionary greetings to all,

President Robert Mugabe delivered a State of the Nation Speech he had 
previously delivered.
It's time our good president calls it quits, this is a sign of senility.

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Re: [PAYCO] Sarcastic Anthropology.

['Sebenzile Mlaza' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

Evening Cde Mawethu,

Judging by the brain size of so-called Homo Naledi (this newly discovered 
allege distant relative of ours), it is quite obvious that Homo sapiens (us) 
are not directly descended from that species. Read this cognitively, some 
racist academics simply want to infer one conclusion that Africans descended 
this species - Homo Naledi. It is implausible that any branch of the human 
species direct descendants of the Homo Sapiens might have evolved from this 
species.  That is pure hogwash, period!!!

This is like sending a boy to do a man's job, cheap publicity for SA. Ramaphosa 
"Buffalo" knows nothing.
Were professor Tobias alive he would have dismissed this impropriety.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Sep 2015, at 4:34 PM, 'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth 
> Congress  wrote:
> 
> Dear Cde Sebenzile
> 
> I pretty much comprehend the valor contained in your argument. However for me 
> whether this discovery be valid or not it does perhaps bring us closer to the 
> realization of two things, firstly that Africans are the 
> longest/oldest-surviving human species in the world. Secondly it is also in 
> keeping with what Sobukwe said when heightening the single source of mankind. 
> In his speeches and explication of the largely misconstrued "one race the 
> human race", it is captured that "all Scientists agree that all men can trace 
> their ancestry to the first homo sapiens". In essence instead of this being 
> used to denigrate the Africans it can be used to prove the opposite logic 
> that will locate all racialists in their place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, September 14, 2015 2:44 PM, 'Sebenzile Mlaza' via Pan Africanist 
> Youth Congress  wrote:
> 
> 
> > Revolutionary greetings to all,
> 
> >  Ramaphosa aka "Mr. R20 million Buffalo"and his white anthropologist 
> > "friends" have implicitly ratified the Herrenvolks paralogism that man 
> > evolved from baboons, in this case - a black man since this small-brained 
> > species was discovered in Africa (according its cranial brain cavity.) It 
> > took them almost 2 years to reveal this nonsense of disintegrated bones.
> > Anthropology which is based on probabilities and peradventures is 
> > pseudo-anthropology.
> > Because that species is thought to have performed rituals for its dead it 
> > doesn't qualify its sagacity.
> > Example, go to sleep leaving a dead cricket on the floor, the next morning 
> > you won't find it.
> > At night its kind would come and fetch it, if not disturbed by any movement.
> > Who knows what they're going to do with the dead "body?"
> > My guess is they're going to bury it and perform the orthoptera ritual 
> > unique to its kind.
> > By the by, female crickets don't chirp, only male ones do and male 
> > mosquitoes don't bite, they feed on nectar, only female ones suckle blood.
> > Dr. Mathole Motshekga for once wore his pants and deviated from this 
> > rubbish regardless of what his deputy president et al thought.
> 
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Re: [PAYCO] Sarcastic Anthropology.

['Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

Dear Cde Sebenzile
I pretty much comprehend the valor contained in your argument. However for me 
whether this discovery be valid or not it does perhaps bring us closer to the 
realization of two things, firstly that Africans are the 
longest/oldest-surviving human species in the world. Secondly it is also in 
keeping with what Sobukwe said when heightening the single source of mankind. 
In his speeches and explication of the largely misconstrued "one race the human 
race", it is captured that "all Scientists agree that all men can trace their 
ancestry to the first homo sapiens". In essence instead of this being used to 
denigrate the Africans it can be used to prove the opposite logic that will 
locate all racialists in their place.
 


 On Monday, September 14, 2015 2:44 PM, 'Sebenzile Mlaza' via Pan 
Africanist Youth Congress  wrote:
   

 > Revolutionary greetings to all,

>  Ramaphosa aka "Mr. R20 million Buffalo"and his white anthropologist 
>"friends" have implicitly ratified the Herrenvolks paralogism that man evolved 
>from baboons, in this case - a black man since this small-brained species was 
>discovered in Africa (according its cranial brain cavity.) It took them almost 
>2 years to reveal this nonsense of disintegrated bones.
> Anthropology which is based on probabilities and peradventures is 
> pseudo-anthropology.
> Because that species is thought to have performed rituals for its dead it 
> doesn't qualify its sagacity.
> Example, go to sleep leaving a dead cricket on the floor, the next morning 
> you won't find it.
> At night its kind would come and fetch it, if not disturbed by any movement.
> Who knows what they're going to do with the dead "body?"
> My guess is they're going to bury it and perform the orthoptera ritual unique 
> to its kind.
> By the by, female crickets don't chirp, only male ones do and male mosquitoes 
> don't bite, they feed on nectar, only female ones suckle blood.
> Dr. Mathole Motshekga for once wore his pants and deviated from this rubbish 
> regardless of what his deputy president et al thought.

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RE: [PAYCO] Fwd: PAC MARCHES COUNTRYWIDE FOR RELEASE OF ITS APLA COMRADES

[July]

Noted 

-Original Message-
From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
Sent: ‎2015-‎04-‎20 04:01 PM
To: "payco@googlegroups.com" 
Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd: PAC MARCHES COUNTRYWIDE FOR RELEASE OF ITS APLA COMRADES



Regards, 


electronically signed 


Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU 
T (012) 320 6472 - 5
F (012) 320 2179
F2email: 086 225 4254
Email: mphi...@gmail.com 
   masoga.mph...@sacwu.org.za 
C 073 182 2656 








-- Forwarded message --
From: Admin @ Pac 
Date: Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 2:59 PM
Subject: PAC MARCHES COUNTRYWIDE FOR RELEASE OF ITS APLA COMRADES
To: takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, lesibajlekgoa...@gmail.com, mphi...@gmail.com, 
richardma...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, goqwana.san...@gmail.com
Cc: mphi...@gmail.com, moosamazib...@gmail.com, ditlesi...@gmail.com, 
mokoen...@workmail.co.za, melus...@yahoo.com, bmntl...@yahoo.com, 
sraphahl...@parliament.gov.za, pa...@pac.org.za, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, 
smollzo...@gmail.com, nngq...@gmail.com, digashuma...@gmail.com



Revolutionary Greetings , 
 
 
 
Please receive the attached letter and  circulate it to other members who want 
to attend the march on the 24th April 2015.
 
 
 
 
 
Regards,
 
PAC of Azania
Tel : 011 331 3415/ 14/ 11
Fax : 086 527 0380
Email : ad...@pac.org.za
Website: www.pac.org.za
 
A SHORT SAYING OFTEN CONTAINS MUCH WISDOM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Re: [PAYCO] WHAT WENT WRONG WITH AZANIA (SA) BURNING by Bulayo News on-line

[Tom Oreje]

Masoga,

Brother, the rest of africa is reacting!  

Will south Africa be comfortable again in isolation?

Right now, none of South African citizens can dare say, in a foreign country, 
that they are south African, the pride is gone and violence is knocking at your 
door. 

And all these because of a 'king'? I pity you. 

Cheers.

  Original Message  
From: Mphiri Masoga
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 12:26 PM
To: PAYCO azaniapaycoofaza...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com
Reply To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] WHAT WENT WRONG WITH AZANIA (SA) BURNING by Bulayo News on-line


What went wrong with SA independence to turn their anger and hate on foreigners?
by Nomazulu Thata
18 April 2015 | 1887 Views
What went wrong with South African independence to turn their anger and hate on 
foreigners? Naomi Klein chronologies some facets of a stolen revolution: "Shock 
doctrine"

"Reconciliation means that those who have been on the underside of history must 
see that there is a qualitative difference between repression and freedom.  And 
for them, freedom translates into having a supply of clean water, having a good 
job, to be able to send your children to school and to have accessible health 
care. I mean, what's the point of having made this transition if the quality of 
life of these people is not enhanced and improved? If not, the vote is 
useless."  These are the words of Archbishop Tutu verbatim, Chair of South 
Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, 2001. Taken from the book: "Shock 
doctrine" by Naomi Klein.

Naomi Klein, the writer of "Shock Doctrine" follows the economic and political 
developments that took place in South Africa following the release of Nelson 
Mandela from prison in 1990. Her analysis on SA could give us some clue as to 
what happened to the revolution in SA? Who benefited from the independence, why 
do people feel betrayed, do they know they got betrayed?  Now it seems the 
betrayal, the hate and anger are openly, is nakedly vomited on the foreigners. 
They are to blame! They must leave South Africa or else they will be killed!

When Mandela was released from prison in 1990, February the 12th, he came to a 
world that had changed from what it was in 1963 before he went to prison. He 
arrived to a new generational South Africa, New Africa and a new world order. 
The socialist revolutionary movements the whole world had ceased to exist. The 
Berlin Wall had fallen and as a result the cold war over. Che Guevara had died 
long back, President Salvado Allende of Chile died in a coup in 1973, President 
Samora Machel of Mozambique died of a plane crash in October 1986. The 
repression at Tiananmen Square was crushed and communism in China collapsed, 
says Naomi in her "Shock Doctrine." But what Mandela still had firm in his mind 
when he left the prison door of Robin Island, was power of the Freedom Charter, 
policies that he had worked on with other ANC stalwarts before he went to 
prison and the document spread like fire to almost all peoples of South Africa, 
everyone in the revolution was convinced that it was a document to free the 
people of South Africa from political and economic oppression. ANC policies had 
its roots, its values its principles enshrined in the Freedom Charter, a live 
and timeless document adopted in 1955. The objectives of this noble document 
were, 

 - Landless people and dispossessed people should be given land
 - Workers should be given livable wages and shorter working hours
 - There should be free and compulsory education for all 
 - Right to freedom of movement irrespective of color race, creed and 
nationality
 - Share the country's wealth of land, gold and diamonds
 - Banks mineral wealth monopoly of industries shall be controlled to assist 
the wellbeing of the people

Before South Africa's democratic independence in 1994, South Africa had an 
economic system that perpetuated racism, and it implemented economic returns 
that were only to be enjoyed by the few white elite. The cheap labor they got 
forcefully from the black population nurtured the economy and it boosted, 
making South Africa the largest economy in the African continent. White people 
were paid ten times more than blacks doing the same job description. According 
to Naomi Klein, South Africa was a country with California living standards for 
the whites and Congo living standards for the black people. Mandela's release 
from prison could have sparked an economic collapse and civil war at the same 
time. He had to balance those forces never to be out of hand and explode into 
total civil war and chaos. The National Party of F. W. De Klerk provoked this 
scenario to prove that blacks were not capable of governing such a huge economy 
like South Africa. It was a two lane negotiation process; political and 
economical. Mandela and Ramaphosa, together with his ANC team had to negotiate 
the political independence from the hands of the few whites to the majority of 
South African

RE: [PAYCO] Fwd: FUNERAL DETAILS OF SAKI SELL MAFATSHE

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Hawu, M’afrika Saki is no more, this is shocking! Indeed it is the darkest 
before dawn!

 

Thanks for the information

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah 

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sbusiso Xaba
Sent: 04 March 2015 02:52 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd: FUNERAL DETAILS OF SAKI SELL MAFATSHE

 

-- Forwarded message --
From: "Thabang Mothelo" 
Date: Mar 4, 2015 9:49 AM
Subject: FUNERAL DETAILS OF SAKI SELL MAFATSHE
To: "Dudu Phama" , , 
, "Chris Sabela" , "APLA Junior Ntabeni" 
, "FihlA" 
Cc: , , 
, , "L.R. Mbinda" 
, "justice mvakali" , "Matlala 
Limpopo" , , 
, "Sbusiso Xaba" , "Smoll 
Zondo" , , 
, , , 
, , , 
"Narius Moloto" , , "Simphiwe 
Nofuma" , , 
, "phillip Dhlamini" , 
, , , 
, , , "Fumanile 
Ben" , "Mbulelo Raymond" , 
, "Jaki" , "Justice Ntshuntsha" 
, , "Mbusi" 
, "Mawethu Ntlabathi" , 
, , "Horatio Motjuwadi" 
, , 
, "Richard Sizani" , 
, , "Thabang Mothelo" 
, "Tommy Kantando" , "Tommy 
Ntando" 



Dear M'Afrika,

 

Please receive update for the funeral of Saki Sello Mafatshe, as attached.

 

 

 

 

 

Yours,

 

Thabo Mothelo

081 552 6803 

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Re: [PAYCO] Sobukwe Memorial Lecture at UNISA

[Mphiri Masoga]

Good Day 

Thank you for the invitation will circulate. 

kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: Vusi Mahlangu 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:41:27 
To: payco
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Sobukwe Memorial Lecture at UNISA

Greetings comrades,

Please find attached invitation to Robert Sobukwe Memorial Lecture
scheduled as follows:

Date: 20 February 2015
Venue: Building 15 (Room G5)
Time: 16H30
Speakers: Cadre John Trible (AAPRP)
Cadre Lunga Mantashe (PASMA President

For more information contact;

Evans Malepe at 0795106926

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Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Linda Ndebele]

Greetings!

Cde Nkrumah going forward that's the only pursuit I am prepared to engage on. 
The other gymnastics that leads to nowhere I am no longer prepared to entertain.

Forward to socialist revolution!

Linda
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:51:25 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

Greeting friends and comrades!

 

“Never in history has any class achieved power without having political 
leaders, men capable of organising a movement and leading it” – Lenin. A cadre 
is a professional revolutionary, a qualified graduate in the art of revolution, 
from the purifying school of practical and ideological battles in defence of 
the poor and oppressed masses. None of us can refute that “the PAC has been 
slowly evaporating itself into total oblivion from the political radar”. We 
must note that these writings remain an exchange among us with access to Payco 
google group and worse of all are ignored by those leading the party who holds 
divergent ideas and methods responsible of the disintegration of the PAC, to 
reason with them has proven to be a futile exercise and thus delivered either 
sour fruits or nothing except maliciousness.  The only logical action, is those 
who uphold the necessity of a revolutionary Pan Africanist organisation and 
accept such bitter truths and willing to explore ways and means to (re-) build 
a revolutionary Pan Africanist Party should converge and execute the necessary 
mass based programme.

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

 

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matome
Sent: 01 February 2015 10:45 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

 

Comrade Sebenzile,

I hope you are well my dearest Friend and Comrade.

Would you allow me to take off by 'attacking' you and then to end differently? 
Since you are not here to engage in 'real time' I am now answering the 
foregoing question on your behalf. This I do in the knowledge that you are my 
Friend, and one of the finest of our generation.

The question is, have you not been a part of this slumber, self exaggeration 
and pity ? The immediate answer is that you have been. And in addition if you 
wish to contest this, what have you done to change this state? Was it enough 
and or sufficient? All these questions seem to leave you on weaker ground. 

Are you still willing to hear this my Friend ?

I thank you for allowing me to 'attack' you in this way without seeing my 
points as personal affront but an invitation to do more, and my sternest belief 
that you have what it takes to exert yourself more.

Revolution and change require more than just type-writer bravery and 
intelligence. 

It is for this reason that mediocre lead the gifted and talented comrades like 
you. 

The pain and task of leading a revolution and party building are much more 
excruciating than that.

Having said all of the above, to you my dear Friend, I here add my voice of 
praise to the validity that belies your submission. 

That question must occupy all of us, that is whether this vehicle can still 
carry this agenda, and whether it is not a wreckage from which we must isolate, 
extricate and advance the potent agenda contained therein. Signs are all that 
you are right, and on this one, very brave too, to have the guts to point this 
out. I do not have to remind you how Sobukwe was at some point like you, like 
you in that when the charterists ditched the Africanist program, and thus 
rendering themselves a wreckage, he and others were brave enough to say, let us 
pick the agenda away from this and find a vehicle to advance it. And they left 
a movement that was almost five decades old. That was brave. So we have to 
listen to you and to confront this question, and do an urgent assessment of 
whether the current vehicle is still a vehicle or a wreckage that is about to 
burn. And whether its immobility is a temporal state which can be fixed. If the 
latter is correct, I am sure there is extreme urgency. This view, the latter 
one, is getting weak by the day, as pitched against the reality of a vehicle 
that may have become a wreck.

So well done my dear Friend !!

Another thing that has been killing me inside is this:

Have we imagined the potential pain of putting everything aside to fight for a 
people and movement who in your darkest days or even so, in your dying days are 
nowhere to acknowledge your sacrifices. I speak here of the many Apla boys who 
were hanged and those who continue to suffer in and outside of jail. What about 
their mothers, brothers and children? All that sacrifice gone to waste ? 

The above really really kills me. 

You see Gadaffi died a good one, Che, Saddam, Lumumba, Kwame and many others. 
Their flame continues. What about the flame of

RE: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Greeting friends and comrades!

 

“Never in history has any class achieved power without having political 
leaders, men capable of organising a movement and leading it” – Lenin. A cadre 
is a professional revolutionary, a qualified graduate in the art of revolution, 
from the purifying school of practical and ideological battles in defence of 
the poor and oppressed masses. None of us can refute that “the PAC has been 
slowly evaporating itself into total oblivion from the political radar”. We 
must note that these writings remain an exchange among us with access to Payco 
google group and worse of all are ignored by those leading the party who holds 
divergent ideas and methods responsible of the disintegration of the PAC, to 
reason with them has proven to be a futile exercise and thus delivered either 
sour fruits or nothing except maliciousness.  The only logical action, is those 
who uphold the necessity of a revolutionary Pan Africanist organisation and 
accept such bitter truths and willing to explore ways and means to (re-) build 
a revolutionary Pan Africanist Party should converge and execute the necessary 
mass based programme.

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

 

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matome
Sent: 01 February 2015 10:45 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

 

Comrade Sebenzile,

I hope you are well my dearest Friend and Comrade.

Would you allow me to take off by 'attacking' you and then to end differently? 
Since you are not here to engage in 'real time' I am now answering the 
foregoing question on your behalf. This I do in the knowledge that you are my 
Friend, and one of the finest of our generation.

The question is, have you not been a part of this slumber, self exaggeration 
and pity ? The immediate answer is that you have been. And in addition if you 
wish to contest this, what have you done to change this state? Was it enough 
and or sufficient? All these questions seem to leave you on weaker ground. 

Are you still willing to hear this my Friend ?

I thank you for allowing me to 'attack' you in this way without seeing my 
points as personal affront but an invitation to do more, and my sternest belief 
that you have what it takes to exert yourself more.

Revolution and change require more than just type-writer bravery and 
intelligence. 

It is for this reason that mediocre lead the gifted and talented comrades like 
you. 

The pain and task of leading a revolution and party building are much more 
excruciating than that.

Having said all of the above, to you my dear Friend, I here add my voice of 
praise to the validity that belies your submission. 

That question must occupy all of us, that is whether this vehicle can still 
carry this agenda, and whether it is not a wreckage from which we must isolate, 
extricate and advance the potent agenda contained therein. Signs are all that 
you are right, and on this one, very brave too, to have the guts to point this 
out. I do not have to remind you how Sobukwe was at some point like you, like 
you in that when the charterists ditched the Africanist program, and thus 
rendering themselves a wreckage, he and others were brave enough to say, let us 
pick the agenda away from this and find a vehicle to advance it. And they left 
a movement that was almost five decades old. That was brave. So we have to 
listen to you and to confront this question, and do an urgent assessment of 
whether the current vehicle is still a vehicle or a wreckage that is about to 
burn. And whether its immobility is a temporal state which can be fixed. If the 
latter is correct, I am sure there is extreme urgency. This view, the latter 
one, is getting weak by the day, as pitched against the reality of a vehicle 
that may have become a wreck.

So well done my dear Friend !!

Another thing that has been killing me inside is this:

Have we imagined the potential pain of putting everything aside to fight for a 
people and movement who in your darkest days or even so, in your dying days are 
nowhere to acknowledge your sacrifices. I speak here of the many Apla boys who 
were hanged and those who continue to suffer in and outside of jail. What about 
their mothers, brothers and children? All that sacrifice gone to waste ? 

The above really really kills me. 

You see Gadaffi died a good one, Che, Saddam, Lumumba, Kwame and many others. 
Their flame continues. What about the flame of these comrades and martyrs.

So in the light of the above, the neglect of those who suffered and the state 
of the party, this question that you raise is most poignant.

I have not even dealt with our participation in contemporary issues, and our 
ability to contend with the future. 

So I put up my hands again to clap in praise of your bravery.

This is my type writer support to your comments.

Izwe Lethu ! I-Afrika !

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

  _  

From: P

RE: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Izwe lethu M’Afrila Malaza

 

Leon Trotsky, one of the leaders of the 1917 Russian revolution, summed up the 
reason in 1938 when he wrote: "The historical crisis of mankind is reduced to 
the crisis of the revolutionary leadership" (from The Transitional Programme, 
written for the founding congress of the Fourth International). These words are 
as true today as they were then. Trotsky, in his book The History of the 
Russian Revolution, wrote: "Without a guiding organisation, the energy of the 
masses would dissipate like steam not enclosed in a piston box. But 
nevertheless, what moves things is not the piston or the box but the steam".

 

Discussion on the need for a revolutionary party and its form of organisation 
is very important today, especially as many young people regard themselves as 
‘anti-capitalist’ and are interested in socialist ideas including Pan 
Africanism, but have a degree of mistrust towards political parties which are 
consumed by bourgeoisie politics and sophistry of the African comprador 
bourgeoisie . This is hardly surprising given the bureaucratic and undemocratic 
methods of the main capitalist political parties and the attacks they make on 
living standards when in power.  

 

To be successful, insurrection must rely not upon conspiracy and not upon a 
party, but upon the advanced class. That is the first point. Insurrection must 
rely upon a revolutionary upsurge of the people. That is the second point. 
Insurrection must rely upon that turning-point in the history of the growing 
revolution when the activity of the advanced ranks of the people is at its 
height, and when the vacillations in the ranks of the enemy and in the ranks of 
the weak, half-hearted and irresolute friends of the revolution are strongest. 

 

Everyone is free to write and say whatever he likes, without any restrictions. 
But every voluntary association (including the party) is also free to expel 
members who use the name of the party to advocate anti-party views. Freedom of 
speech and the press must be complete. But then freedom of association must be 
complete too. I am bound to accord you, in the name of free speech, the full 
right to shout, lie and write to your heart’s content. But you are bound to 
grant me, in the name of freedom of association, the right to enter into, or 
withdraw from, association with people advocating this or that view. The party 
is a voluntary association, which would inevitably break up, first 
ideologically and then physically, if it did not cleanse itself of people 
advocating anti-party views.

 

“Victory will belong only to those who have faith in the people, those who are 
immersed in the life-giving spring of popular creativity” Lenin

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matome
Sent: 01 February 2015 10:45 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

 

Comrade Sebenzile,

I hope you are well my dearest Friend and Comrade.

Would you allow me to take off by 'attacking' you and then to end differently? 
Since you are not here to engage in 'real time' I am now answering the 
foregoing question on your behalf. This I do in the knowledge that you are my 
Friend, and one of the finest of our generation.

The question is, have you not been a part of this slumber, self exaggeration 
and pity ? The immediate answer is that you have been. And in addition if you 
wish to contest this, what have you done to change this state? Was it enough 
and or sufficient? All these questions seem to leave you on weaker ground. 

Are you still willing to hear this my Friend ?

I thank you for allowing me to 'attack' you in this way without seeing my 
points as personal affront but an invitation to do more, and my sternest belief 
that you have what it takes to exert yourself more.

Revolution and change require more than just type-writer bravery and 
intelligence. 

It is for this reason that mediocre lead the gifted and talented comrades like 
you. 

The pain and task of leading a revolution and party building are much more 
excruciating than that.

Having said all of the above, to you my dear Friend, I here add my voice of 
praise to the validity that belies your submission. 

That question must occupy all of us, that is whether this vehicle can still 
carry this agenda, and whether it is not a wreckage from which we must isolate, 
extricate and advance the potent agenda contained therein. Signs are all that 
you are right, and on this one, very brave too, to have the guts to point this 
out. I do not have to remind you how Sobukwe was at some point like you, like 
you in that when the charterists ditched the Africanist program, and thus 
rendering themselves a wreckage, he and others were brave enough to say, let us 
pick the agenda away from this and find a vehicle to advance it. And they left 
a movement that was almost five decades old. T

RE: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Izwe lethu M’Afrika

We herewith inform and invite all PAC member residing in Johannesburg Region to 
participate and contribute in the party re-building programme. The Johannesburg 
Regional meetings are opened to all PAC members (with or without a branch and 
membership cards) Kindly note and diarise the following dates for political 
events and activities planned for February 2015 in Johannesburg Region as 
discussed and approve at various regional Interbranch meetings:-

2015 Theme:- Unite, Consolidate and Advance Pan Africanism for the Seizure of 
State Political Power On A Socialist Programme!

 

2.   PAC Johannesburg Region InterBranch Meeting

Purpose of the meeting to 1. Outline Regional Strategy, 2. Establish Regional 
Sub-Working Committee such Political Campaigns Sub-Committee, Political 
Education Sub-Committee, Finances and Resources Mobilisation Sub-Committee, 
Publicity and Information Sub-Committee; 3. Release APLA Freedom Fighters 
Campaign 4. Community Based Campaigns etc;

Venue   : PACE College Zola

Date : 7th February 2015 

Time : 11:00 – 16:00  

 

3.   Sobukwe Month Planned Activities

(i)   Orlando East Political Lecture for the mainly the community

Venue: Orlando Communal Hall

Date: 15th February 2015

Time: 15:00 -18:00

 

4.   (ii)  Poetry Session Dedication for RM Sobukwe

Venue: Sister Sister (Dlamini Section) or Drill Hall (Twist Street opposite to 
MTN Noord Taxi Rand between Plein Street and Develliers)

Date: 22nd February 2015

Time: 12:00 – 18:00

 

(ii) RM Sobukwe Public Lecture

Welcome remarks: Dr Motsoko Pheko

Key note Speaker: 1. Prof Herbert Vilakazi or Prof Sipho Tshabalala

Key note Speaker: 2. Prof John Trimble (AAPRP)

Venue: University of Johannesburg

Date : 26th February 2015

Time : 15:00 – 19:00

5.   Release APLA Freedom Fighters Campaign Planned Activities

(i)   Picket Protest Action 1

Place: Cape Town, Parliament 

Date: 12th February 2015

Time: 12:00 – 20:00

(ii) Picket Protest Action 2

Place : Boksburg Correctional Prison

Date : 12th February 2015

Time : 06:00- 13:00

(iii)   Picket Protest Action 3

Place : Sun City Johannesburg Prison

Date : 13th February 2015 

Time : 06:00 – 13:00

(iv)   Picket Protest and March 4

Place : Tshwane (Pretoria), Department of Correctional Services (Head Offices)

Date :  27th February 2015

10:00 – 15:00

6.   Johannesburg Regional (inclusive) Conference

Theme:- Unite, Consolidate and Advance Pan Africanism for the Seizure of State 
Political Power On A Socialist Programme!

Venue : Ipelegeng Community Centre 

Date : 27th – 29th March 2015

 

Your participation and contribution to re-build and re-organise the PAC to 
assume and advance the Africa Revolution, time dictate upon us to confront and 
resolve the internal impediments which had threw PAC into total oblivion.  
“Never in history has any class achieved power without having political 
leaders, men capable of organising a movement and leading it” – Lenin. A cadre 
is a professional revolutionary, a qualified graduate in the art of revolution, 
from the purifying school of practical and ideological battles in defence of 
the poor and oppressed masses.

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi

 

 

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matome
Sent: 01 February 2015 10:45 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

 

Comrade Sebenzile,

I hope you are well my dearest Friend and Comrade.

Would you allow me to take off by 'attacking' you and then to end differently? 
Since you are not here to engage in 'real time' I am now answering the 
foregoing question on your behalf. This I do in the knowledge that you are my 
Friend, and one of the finest of our generation.

The question is, have you not been a part of this slumber, self exaggeration 
and pity ? The immediate answer is that you have been. And in addition if you 
wish to contest this, what have you done to change this state? Was it enough 
and or sufficient? All these questions seem to leave you on weaker ground. 

Are you still willing to hear this my Friend ?

I thank you for allowing me to 'attack' you in this way without seeing my 
points as personal affront but an invitation to do more, and my sternest belief 
that you have what it takes to exert yourself more.

Revolution and change require more than just type-writer bravery and 
intelligence. 

It is for this reason that mediocre lead the gifted and talented comrades like 
you. 

The pain and task of leading a revolution and party building are much more 
excruciating than that.

Having said all of the above, to you my dear Friend, I here add my voice of 
praise to the validity that belies your submission. 

That question must occupy all of us, that is whether this vehicle can still 
carry this agenda, and whether it is not a wreckage from which we must isolate, 
extricate and advance the p

Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[matome]

Comrade Sebenzile,

I hope you are well my dearest Friend and Comrade.

Would you allow me to take off by 'attacking' you and then to end differently? 
Since you are not here to engage in 'real time' I am now answering the 
foregoing question on your behalf. This I do in the knowledge that you are my 
Friend, and one of the finest of our generation.

The question is, have you not been a part of this slumber, self exaggeration 
and pity ? The immediate answer is that you have been. And in addition if you 
wish to contest this, what have you done to change this state? Was it enough 
and or sufficient? All these questions seem to leave you on weaker ground. 

Are you still willing to hear this my Friend ?

I thank you for allowing me to 'attack' you in this way without seeing my 
points as personal affront but an invitation to do more, and my sternest belief 
that you have what it takes to exert yourself more.

Revolution and change require more than just type-writer bravery and 
intelligence. 

It is for this reason that mediocre lead the gifted and talented comrades like 
you. 

The pain and task of leading a revolution and party building are much more 
excruciating than that.

Having said all of the above, to you my dear Friend, I here add my voice of 
praise to the validity that belies your submission. 

That question must occupy all of us, that is whether this vehicle can still 
carry this agenda, and whether it is not a wreckage from which we must isolate, 
extricate and advance the potent agenda contained therein. Signs are all that 
you are right, and on this one, very brave too, to have the guts to point this 
out. I do not have to remind you how Sobukwe was at some point like you, like 
you in that when the charterists ditched the Africanist program, and thus 
rendering themselves a wreckage, he and others were brave enough to say, let us 
pick the agenda away from this and find a vehicle to advance it. And they left 
a movement that was almost five decades old. That was brave. So we have to 
listen to you and to confront this question, and do an urgent assessment of 
whether the current vehicle is still a vehicle or a wreckage that is about to 
burn. And whether its immobility is a temporal state which can be fixed. If the 
latter is correct, I am sure there is extreme urgency. This view, the latter 
one, is getting weak by the day, as pitched against the reality of a vehicle 
that may have become a wreck.

So well done my dear Friend !!

Another thing that has been killing me inside is this:

Have we imagined the potential pain of putting everything aside to fight for a 
people and movement who in your darkest days or even so, in your dying days are 
nowhere to acknowledge your sacrifices. I speak here of the many Apla boys who 
were hanged and those who continue to suffer in and outside of jail. What about 
their mothers, brothers and children? All that sacrifice gone to waste ? 

The above really really kills me. 

You see Gadaffi died a good one, Che, Saddam, Lumumba, Kwame and many others. 
Their flame continues. What about the flame of these comrades and martyrs.

So in the light of the above, the neglect of those who suffered and the state 
of the party, this question that you raise is most poignant.

I have not even dealt with our participation in contemporary issues, and our 
ability to contend with the future. 

So I put up my hands again to clap in praise of your bravery.

This is my type writer support to your comments.

Izwe Lethu ! I-Afrika !

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: Pule Maqekoane 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 09:55:33 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

We are proud of you Mlaza!

Wow, what a masterpiece!

At the time some of us joined the PAC, the general membership was of the
level of M'Afrika Sebenzile Mlaza.

How many Sebenziles and how many Mlazas are still associating themselves
with the PAC today?

This is the wonderful piece.
.

Will the defunct split ready PAC leadership ever read it?

Yes these cockroaches will dump it down their big bellies, of course
without understanding, and
you wonder when they won't comment?

Force it unto them and extract an answer.

Don't be shocked by the quality of the answer they will provide, don't stay
numb.

REMOVE THEM1


On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Sebenzile Mlaza 
wrote:

>  Revolutionary greetings to all,
>
>
>
> We've been too obsessed with self-congratulatory stances for too long and
> yet the PAC has been slowly evaporating itself into total oblivion from the
> political radar. And we further kept on blaming the ANC and a ridiculously
> distant force like the CIA for our mishaps. I personally believe it is time
> to wake up and face the bitter truth. PAC  is in a comatose state for an
> indefinite period of time, surely this is  an in

Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Pule Maqekoane]

We are proud of you Mlaza!

Wow, what a masterpiece!

At the time some of us joined the PAC, the general membership was of the
level of M'Afrika Sebenzile Mlaza.

How many Sebenziles and how many Mlazas are still associating themselves
with the PAC today?

This is the wonderful piece.
.

Will the defunct split ready PAC leadership ever read it?

Yes these cockroaches will dump it down their big bellies, of course
without understanding, and
you wonder when they won't comment?

Force it unto them and extract an answer.

Don't be shocked by the quality of the answer they will provide, don't stay
numb.

REMOVE THEM1


On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Sebenzile Mlaza 
wrote:

>  Revolutionary greetings to all,
>
>
>
> We've been too obsessed with self-congratulatory stances for too long and
> yet the PAC has been slowly evaporating itself into total oblivion from the
> political radar. And we further kept on blaming the ANC and a ridiculously
> distant force like the CIA for our mishaps. I personally believe it is time
> to wake up and face the bitter truth. PAC  is in a comatose state for an
> indefinite period of time, surely this is  an indictment on the methods
> we've applied to advance and articulate the core objectives Pan Africanism
> and in executing our revolutionary task as Africanists. PAC has simply been
> rendered incapable to execute its own mandate by some faceless political
> thugs. I don't see how will we ever manage to salvage the party from this
> unbearable situation. The stooges and unscrupulous characters at the helm
> of the party who have been largely accountable to their many faceless
> cliques have not helped the situation at all. The party has been in this
> state of affairs for far too long. Nothing that should have been done has
> not been done, instead the party has alienated most if not all of its best
> cadres and intellectuals alike.
>
>
>
> The ambience has changed in the country so a new strategy has to be
> adopted in order to remain relevant in this organic political milieu than
> for us to appear to be led by a jamboree of masochistic gamins who suffer
> from political narcolepsy. For Pete's sake, we all know that the PAC has
> been precocious from its conception to its inception, I am curious to know
> what really happened in exile, but that is a subject that will probably not
> take us anywhere. Yesterday's politics were primarily driven by activism
> and valour, now it's no longer that. The party is faced with a different
> animal, it's called parliamentary politics. Unlike before, this behemoth
> needs prowess, vision and acumen
>
>
>
> We've sacrificed a lot to be bamboozled by these self-serving lackeys at
> the helm of the party masquerading as lecturers on the theory and practice
> of Pan Africanism. It is high time that we should rethink our effectiveness
> under the tutelage of the now defunct PAC (it feels like we are trying to
> suffocate the dead), by focussing our energies on finding a new political
> home that will be capable of pursuing an Africanist agenda without fear of
> political, ideological and philosophical contradictions emanating from
> anyone at any quarters. I do not mean a splinter group like APC or PAM, but
> a new political home to pursue an Africanist agenda that will not be
> hindered by the exile conflict in executing the core objectives of
> Africanism. Indeed quo vadis PAC??
>
>
>
> Inexactitudes not intended ... apologies in advance!!!
>
>
>
> Izwe lethu iAfrika!!!
>
> --
> --
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Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Bongani Keith]

Revolutionary greetings "cry Izwe Lethu"

This is there most progressive important statement from comrade Sebenzile
you have cross the breach before many of us to see what will the future
hold when comrades think of the 20 years in vain of sacrifice building an
organisation without making any significant inroads. That shows wheel of
progress after so many years.

It will be regrettable if ideas will be suffocated for another 20 years
proposals of this nature which shows maturity to advance Pan Africanism
must be engaged not criticised without looking back what has happened and
what will be the future.

I await for such ideas to be realised to give meaning to the current epoch
of our struggle.



On Friday, January 30, 2015, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:

>  Revolutionary greetings to all,
>
>
>
> We've been too obsessed with self-congratulatory stances for too long and
> yet the PAC has been slowly evaporating itself into total oblivion from the
> political radar. And we further kept on blaming the ANC and a ridiculously
> distant force like the CIA for our mishaps. I personally believe it is time
> to wake up and face the bitter truth. PAC  is in a comatose state for an
> indefinite period of time, surely this is  an indictment on the methods
> we've applied to advance and articulate the core objectives Pan Africanism
> and in executing our revolutionary task as Africanists. PAC has simply been
> rendered incapable to execute its own mandate by some faceless political
> thugs. I don't see how will we ever manage to salvage the party from this
> unbearable situation. The stooges and unscrupulous characters at the helm
> of the party who have been largely accountable to their many faceless
> cliques have not helped the situation at all. The party has been in this
> state of affairs for far too long. Nothing that should have been done has
> not been done, instead the party has alienated most if not all of its best
> cadres and intellectuals alike.
>
>
>
> The ambience has changed in the country so a new strategy has to be
> adopted in order to remain relevant in this organic political milieu than
> for us to appear to be led by a jamboree of masochistic gamins who suffer
> from political narcolepsy. For Pete's sake, we all know that the PAC has
> been precocious from its conception to its inception, I am curious to know
> what really happened in exile, but that is a subject that will probably not
> take us anywhere. Yesterday's politics were primarily driven by activism
> and valour, now it's no longer that. The party is faced with a different
> animal, it's called parliamentary politics. Unlike before, this behemoth
> needs prowess, vision and acumen
>
>
>
> We've sacrificed a lot to be bamboozled by these self-serving lackeys at
> the helm of the party masquerading as lecturers on the theory and practice
> of Pan Africanism. It is high time that we should rethink our effectiveness
> under the tutelage of the now defunct PAC (it feels like we are trying to
> suffocate the dead), by focussing our energies on finding a new political
> home that will be capable of pursuing an Africanist agenda without fear of
> political, ideological and philosophical contradictions emanating from
> anyone at any quarters. I do not mean a splinter group like APC or PAM, but
> a new political home to pursue an Africanist agenda that will not be
> hindered by the exile conflict in executing the core objectives of
> Africanism. Indeed quo vadis PAC??
>
>
>
> Inexactitudes not intended … apologies in advance!!!
>
>
>
> Izwe lethu iAfrika!!!
>
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> 
>
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>
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>
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Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Bongani Keith]

Revolutionary greetings "cry Izwe Lethu"

This is there most progressive important statement from comrade Sebenzile
you have cross the breach before many of us to see what will the future
hold when comrades think of the 20 years in vain of sacrifice building an
organisation without making any significant inroads. That shows wheel of
progress after so many years.

It will be regrettable if ideas will be suffocated for another 20 years
proposals of this nature which shows maturity to advance Pan Africanism
must be engaged not criticised without looking back what has happened and
what will be the future.

I await for such ideas to be realised to give meaning to the current epoch
of our struggle.



On Friday, January 30, 2015, Sebenzile Mlaza  wrote:

>  Revolutionary greetings to all,
>
>
>
> We've been too obsessed with self-congratulatory stances for too long and
> yet the PAC has been slowly evaporating itself into total oblivion from the
> political radar. And we further kept on blaming the ANC and a ridiculously
> distant force like the CIA for our mishaps. I personally believe it is time
> to wake up and face the bitter truth. PAC  is in a comatose state for an
> indefinite period of time, surely this is  an indictment on the methods
> we've applied to advance and articulate the core objectives Pan Africanism
> and in executing our revolutionary task as Africanists. PAC has simply been
> rendered incapable to execute its own mandate by some faceless political
> thugs. I don't see how will we ever manage to salvage the party from this
> unbearable situation. The stooges and unscrupulous characters at the helm
> of the party who have been largely accountable to their many faceless
> cliques have not helped the situation at all. The party has been in this
> state of affairs for far too long. Nothing that should have been done has
> not been done, instead the party has alienated most if not all of its best
> cadres and intellectuals alike.
>
>
>
> The ambience has changed in the country so a new strategy has to be
> adopted in order to remain relevant in this organic political milieu than
> for us to appear to be led by a jamboree of masochistic gamins who suffer
> from political narcolepsy. For Pete's sake, we all know that the PAC has
> been precocious from its conception to its inception, I am curious to know
> what really happened in exile, but that is a subject that will probably not
> take us anywhere. Yesterday's politics were primarily driven by activism
> and valour, now it's no longer that. The party is faced with a different
> animal, it's called parliamentary politics. Unlike before, this behemoth
> needs prowess, vision and acumen
>
>
>
> We've sacrificed a lot to be bamboozled by these self-serving lackeys at
> the helm of the party masquerading as lecturers on the theory and practice
> of Pan Africanism. It is high time that we should rethink our effectiveness
> under the tutelage of the now defunct PAC (it feels like we are trying to
> suffocate the dead), by focussing our energies on finding a new political
> home that will be capable of pursuing an Africanist agenda without fear of
> political, ideological and philosophical contradictions emanating from
> anyone at any quarters. I do not mean a splinter group like APC or PAM, but
> a new political home to pursue an Africanist agenda that will not be
> hindered by the exile conflict in executing the core objectives of
> Africanism. Indeed quo vadis PAC??
>
>
>
> Inexactitudes not intended … apologies in advance!!!
>
>
>
> Izwe lethu iAfrika!!!
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
> 
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> 
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
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RE: [PAYCO]

['Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

Funny enough Comrade Mduduzi, I just recently read and finished two chapters on 
research work on Azanyu and overall youth politics you once circulated on this 
platform a while ago.The era covered is that of the founding of the Azanyu,the 
Azanyu role in the 80s, the episode of the "revolutionary watcdogs" and 
"amazambane". 

As much as one may not be nostalgic of the infightings but if there is anything 
to appreciate in that momentous friction is the content of inner party 
contradictions, the battle was purely ideological. I mean the decision whether 
or not to negotiate, the conditions or susceptibility of the armed struggle to 
negotiations, the constituent assembly,the repudiation of 5 pillars of 
apartheid as an uncompromising position before negotiations could be allowed a 
chance etc

The manner that the youth leadership in people of Ntsie Mohloai and Mawande 
Jack was critical of the concessions of senior leadership was just driven by 
the desire to correct and interprete the ideals of the movement in the fast 
changing political climate of the country.Their maturity in accepting that they 
will not assit the work of the imperialists to to fragment the PAC at the time 
they were flirting with the idea of a breakaway party and instead resoluting to 
realign in chorus with the main organisation is admirable.

Even though we may all agree that disagreements were always at the heart of 
cleavages in the organisation, it cannot be argued that the disagreements we 
witness today have the same ideological depth unless I am in denial.
 



On Thu, 1/29/15, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:

 Subject: RE: [PAYCO]
 To: payco@googlegroups.com
 Date: Thursday, January 29, 2015, 9:26 AM
 
 #yiv9590736359
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 #yiv9590736359 Izwe lethu
 M’Afrika Mdu  The question is what
 has been achieved thus far in the PAC, noting that every
 little work undertaken on ground to revive, re-organise and
 attempt to build a mass based political character for and in
 the PAC, such efforts are nullified by persisting internal
 feuding which cut deep and may be deeply rooted across all
 levels and structures of the party! There is a leadership
 that is committed on driving divisive and subjective agenda
 which are responsible for the continued disintegration of
 the PAC at the rate never seen before.   During the epoch of
 the struggle waged against the settler colonial apartheid
 regime, PAC has to a larger extent withstood external
 attempts to destroy PAC but today failures of CIA, MOSSAD,
 MI5/10, NIA to sow divisions and destroy the PAC, but this
 has been achieved in less than five years single-handed
 destroyed systematically by organising to disorganise to
 disintegrate the PAC beyond extinction by sowing seeds of
 mistrust, infighting leading to divisions, confusion,
 absence of organisation.    Shango
 lashuNkrumah
  From: payco@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mduduzi
 Sibeko
 Sent: 28 January 2015 07:18
 PM
 To: payco@googlegroups.com
 Subject:
 [PAYCO]  Comrades  It seems the discussions we
 had for years on this platform have disappeared.It is not clear whether it is
 disillusionment or members have become weary ofDiscussing issues for the PAC
 which doesn’t progress. The paralysis of the PACIs at its dangerous space
 than before. Little if nothing has been heard from the PAC
 afterOur poor
 electoral showings last year. Moreover, what compoundsOur ills is the 
leadership
 scuffles which don’t se

RE: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Izwe lethu M’Afrika Mdu

 

The question is what has been achieved thus far in the PAC, noting that every 
little work undertaken on ground to revive, re-organise and attempt to build a 
mass based political character for and in the PAC, such efforts are nullified 
by persisting internal feuding which cut deep and may be deeply rooted across 
all levels and structures of the party! There is a leadership that is committed 
on driving divisive and subjective agenda which are responsible for the 
continued disintegration of the PAC at the rate never seen before. 

 

During the epoch of the struggle waged against the settler colonial apartheid 
regime, PAC has to a larger extent withstood external attempts to destroy PAC 
but today failures of CIA, MOSSAD, MI5/10, NIA to sow divisions and destroy the 
PAC, but this has been achieved in less than five years single-handed destroyed 
systematically by organising to disorganise to disintegrate the PAC beyond 
extinction by sowing seeds of mistrust, infighting leading to divisions, 
confusion, absence of organisation.  

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mduduzi Sibeko
Sent: 28 January 2015 07:18 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO]

 

Comrades

 

It seems the discussions we had for years on this platform have disappeared.

It is not clear whether it is disillusionment or members have become weary of

Discussing issues for the PAC which doesn’t progress. The paralysis of the PAC

Is at its dangerous space than before. Little if nothing has been heard from 
the PAC after

Our poor electoral showings last year. Moreover, what compounds

Our ills is the leadership scuffles which don’t seem to end. Political vacuum

Exists in the context of oppositional politics. The populists EFF has not made 
any difference in challenging the

The ANC, I know some may think it has, due to its rhetoric of pay back the 
money politics in parliament.

The politics of Azania has been marred by anarchy in law making institutions. 
Where is PAC in leading the masses ?

Are we dead now ? please reply 

 

 

 

 

kind regards

Mduduzi Sibeko

Distribution Customer Service Coordinator 

 



 

T +27-11-724-9300/01

C +27-71-101-2595

F 086-754-2176

E  msib...@randwater.co.za

www.randwater.co.za

 

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a 
life spent doing nothing. George Bernard Shaw

 

 

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Re: [PAYCO] FW: [New post] MAYIHLOME NEWS 2014 ANNUAL REPORT

['Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

Job well done thanks editor. We also need the voice from the youth especially 
the editor's and many others on this platform.I wish the tutelege of the old 
guard can be supplemented by the disquet of many potential young writers in 
this forum. Bring on those articles and comments on Mayihlome cadres. 

On Sat, 1/3/15, Hulisani  wrote:

 Subject: [PAYCO] FW: [New post] MAYIHLOME NEWS 2014 ANNUAL REPORT
 To: "PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP" 
 Date: Saturday, January 3, 2015, 10:56 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 #yiv3143220266 .yiv3143220266ExternalClass a:hover {
 color:red;}
 
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 text-decoration:none;color:#0088cc;}
 
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 a.yiv3143220266ecxprimaryactionlink:hover {
 background-color:#11729E;color:#fff;}
 
WordPress.com


 
 
 
 
 



Mayihlome posted: "In 2014, there were 36 new
 articles, bringing the total number of articles posted on
 Mayihlome News to 231. 
 
 The busiest day of the year was 2 January 2014 with 2,874
 views. The most popular article that day was "EUROPE IS
 BLACKMAILING AFRICA TO GO HOM" 






Respond to this 
post by replying above
 this line















 








New post on Mayihlome
 News   












 


















 

Re: [PAYCO] Please VOTE for this Zimbabwe project NOW

[mafam]

Great people for those who have not voted for this unique social  
intervention to have garbage free urban areas, here is your last  
chance! Click on this link, hit the tab 'vote for this innovation;'  
share it on your Facebook wall or Twitter, that way your vote is  
registered. Voting close on Sunday 23 Nov. 2014. Lets go voting.  
Thanks! https://hivossocialinnovationaward.org/…/the-talking-urban…/




Quoting ma...@msu.ac.zw:


Please do VOTE for my project and encourage others to do so :Let's
change the outlook of our urban areas. Vote NOW for this social
innovation for urban renewal the deadline is 23 Nov
2014:https://hivossocialinnovationaward.org/projects/the-talking-urban-garbage-and-municipal-governance-tug-mug/
click where it says 'vote for this innovation'', and the vote can only
be registered if u share it on your Facebook or Twitter walls so that
others can vote...without the sharing, there is no vote

Quoting ma...@msu.ac.zw:

Please do VOTE for my project and encourage other comrades to do so  
in their thousands , if we dont support our own who will ? :Let's  
change the outlook of our urban areas of Zimbabwe. Vote NOW for  
this social innovation for urban renewal the deadline is 23 Nov  
2014:  
https://hivossocialinnovationaward.org/projects/the-talking-urban-garbage-and-municipal-governance-tug-mug/



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Re: [PAYCO] Digest for payco@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 2 topics

['Abdurrahman Nelson' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

It is time for us to support the rights of the African people in the face of 
neo-colonial encroachment such as this: 
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stand_with_the_maasai_2014_us/?bfSBvib&v=48742
Abd 

 On Monday, November 10, 2014 6:26 PM, "payco@googlegroups.com" 
 wrote:
   

   
|payco@googlegroups.com   |  Google Groups  ||

Topic digest 
  View all topics 
   -   SAD NEWS - 1 Update 
   -   Death Has Once More Deprived Us One of Our Own Seasoned and Finest Cadre 
- 1 Update 
SAD NEWS   
|   : Nov 10 02:02PM  

 Comrade Clarence Mayekiso (Hadebe)-former PASO Secretary-General-is late. 
Death has, once again, robbed us a great fighter. He passed away yesterday 
afternoon after short illness. He phoned me at 13:00 sounding well and 2hours 
later he was at Thembisa hospital. It's schocking! 
 
Izwe Lethu!
 
Charge-in Mabaso
0710203554 
 
 
 --
Sent from my Nokia phone
 
--Original message--
From: 
To: 
,,
Date: Friday, October 31, 2014 4:14:36 AM GMT+
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] The 27th--28th September Conference Report
 
Comrades,
 
There are some PAC members who are going around busy holding secret meetings 
with PAM members desguised as unity talks in line with cde Fihla's advice in 
one of his emails. In those meetings, instead of talking about unity, they beg 
PAM members to join PAC branches as individuals. The latest meeting was called 
by Acting PAC President, Mbinda in Cape Town this week. A president of another 
party stoops so low! It's mischievious and dishonest to do so. He got what he 
deserves.. His nefarious plan did not work. Instead, it backfired. It means PAC 
members are undermining the intellect of PAM members. It is not PAM that wants 
this unity so desperately, but PAC. Let's not fool each other on this one. We 
are happy where we are. It is PAC which has many parallel structures, not PAM. 
We are only interested in unity of genuine Pan Africanists in South Africa in 
line with 1st Aim of PAC of 1959: To rally and unite the African people into 
one national front..., not with PAC reformists,careerists and opportunists. 
That is all we are interested in. We know uniting with current reformist PAC 
that has off-ramped from the revolutionary path is going to be a nightmare. It 
is already a nightmare for genuine PAC members now. Current developments and 
our experience are a bady testimonyy to our fears. We have not forgotten the 
way we were manhandled in PAC. ONCE BEATEN TWICE SHY! We know we are being 
invited to go into the Dingane's kraal so that history can repeat itself. 
Certain PAC member will agree with me.
 
Izwe Lethu! 
 
 --
Sent from my Nokia phone
 
--Original message--
From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
To:,<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>,,"Nkrumah
 Raymond Kgagudi" 
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:56:13 PM GMT+0200
Subject: [PAYCO] The 27th--28th September Conference Report
 
Izwe lethu M'Afrika
 
Today from 3:00 am I was reading the report (attached) presented by PAC
Secretary General Narius Moloto at Botshabelo Stadium Arena on the 27th
-28th September factional Conference. This report was supposed to be both
organisational and political report which accounts ad explains about the
PAC's progress to advance the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto summed as the
five (5) Aims and Objectives of the PAC. The organisational and political
report should go further to objectively propose and recommend actions that
must be undertaken to unite and strengthen the PAC's fighting capacity to
propagate and advance Pan Africanist ideas in Azania and at Pan African
scope, but the report dismally fails to adopt a constructive attitude and
approach but it energy and resources were spent (wasted) to wage personal
attacks and reporting about the ANC! It is time that PAC members and
branches should unite and focus on propagating and advancing Pan Africanist
ideas as articulated by the President Kwame Nkrumah and the founders of PAC
in 1959. 
 
Haai M'Afrika, it is indeed tough and has become the darkest moments of PAC,
simply because the worst rot and decay has taken toll, in my life -more than
24 years from PASO to PASMA to PAC, I have never seen such form of a
national report which does nothing but sharpens internal party antagonisms
and aims at heightening internal feuding in the party! This report does
nothing but mobilises those who attended the Botshabelo September 2014
Conference to sharpen their claws in the factional battles. 
 
Almost majority of pages and content of the report is personality attacks
and failures of this or NEC members. The report when summed up, it says PAC
is a hopeless party, this you can easily read once again on page 34-35! It
is PAC Conference which should consider and deliberate on PAC' ideol

Re: [PAYCO] SAd news

[Fikiswa Ntshwanti]

Thanks MÁfrika.

On 14 November 2014 10:43,   wrote:
> Comrade Fikiswa
>
> Pls contact cde Sebenzile for lift at 0713501073 or sms your contacts to me 
> (0710203554).
>
>  --
> Sent from my Nokia phone
>
> --Original message--
> From: Fikiswa Ntshwanti 
> To: "payco" 
> Date: Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:45:57 AM GMT+0200
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] SAd news
>
> Izwe lethu MaÁfrika amahle. Ndicela ilift kwabayayo from Gauteng.
>
> On 12 November 2014 11:26,   wrote:
>> Comrades,
>>
>> The funeral of comrade Clarence Mayekiso (Hadebe) will be held at the Roman 
>> Catholic Church in town, Port Shepstone in KZN on Saturday, 15 November 2014:
>>
>> Hamba kakuhle, son of the soil!  You have served, suffered and sacrificed 
>> for the African Cause.
>>
>> Izwe Lethu
>>
>>  --
>> Sent from my Nokia phone
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>>
>> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group.
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>> email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>
> --
> --
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>
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>
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Re: [PAYCO] SAd news

[chargein461]

Comrade Fikiswa

Pls contact cde Sebenzile for lift at 0713501073 or sms your contacts to me 
(0710203554). 

 --
Sent from my Nokia phone

--Original message--
From: Fikiswa Ntshwanti 
To: "payco" 
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:45:57 AM GMT+0200
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] SAd news

Izwe lethu MaÁfrika amahle. Ndicela ilift kwabayayo from Gauteng.

On 12 November 2014 11:26,   wrote:
> Comrades,
>
> The funeral of comrade Clarence Mayekiso (Hadebe) will be held at the Roman 
> Catholic Church in town, Port Shepstone in KZN on Saturday, 15 November 2014:
>
> Hamba kakuhle, son of the soil!  You have served, suffered and sacrificed for 
> the African Cause.
>
> Izwe Lethu
>
>  --
> Sent from my Nokia phone
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
> ---
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Re: [PAYCO] Please VOTE for this Zimbabwe project NOW

[mafam]

Please do VOTE for my project and encourage others to do so :Let's
change the outlook of our urban areas. Vote NOW for this social
innovation for urban renewal the deadline is 23 Nov
2014:https://hivossocialinnovationaward.org/projects/the-talking-urban-garbage-and-municipal-governance-tug-mug/
click where it says 'vote for this innovation'', and the vote can only
be registered if u share it on your Facebook or Twitter walls so that
others can vote...without the sharing, there is no vote

Quoting ma...@msu.ac.zw:

Please do VOTE for my project and encourage other comrades to do so  
in their thousands , if we dont support our own who will ? :Let's  
change the outlook of our urban areas of Zimbabwe. Vote NOW for this  
social innovation for urban renewal the deadline is 23 Nov 2014:  
https://hivossocialinnovationaward.org/projects/the-talking-urban-garbage-and-municipal-governance-tug-mug/



This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

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Re: [PAYCO] SAd news

[Fikiswa Ntshwanti]

Izwe lethu MaÁfrika amahle. Ndicela ilift kwabayayo from Gauteng.

On 12 November 2014 11:26,   wrote:
> Comrades,
>
> The funeral of comrade Clarence Mayekiso (Hadebe) will be held at the Roman 
> Catholic Church in town, Port Shepstone in KZN on Saturday, 15 November 2014:
>
> Hamba kakuhle, son of the soil!  You have served, suffered and sacrificed for 
> the African Cause.
>
> Izwe Lethu
>
>  --
> Sent from my Nokia phone
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group.
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Re: [PAYCO] The 27th--28th September Conference Report

[chargein461]

Comrades,

There are some PAC members who are going around busy holding secret meetings 
with PAM members desguised as unity talks in line with cde Fihla's advice in 
one of his emails. In those meetings, instead of talking about unity, they beg 
PAM members to join PAC branches as individuals. The latest meeting was called 
by Acting PAC President, Mbinda in Cape Town this week. A president of another 
party stoops so low! It's mischievious and dishonest to do so. He got what he 
deserves.. His nefarious plan did not work. Instead, it backfired. It means PAC 
members are undermining the intellect of PAM members. It is not PAM that wants 
this unity so desperately, but PAC. Let's not fool each other on this one. We 
are happy where we are. It is PAC which has many parallel structures, not PAM. 
We are only interested in unity of genuine Pan Africanists in South Africa in 
line with 1st Aim of PAC of 1959: To rally and unite the African people into 
one national front..., not with PAC reformists, careerists and opportunists.  
That is all we are interested in. We know uniting with current reformist PAC 
that has off-ramped from the revolutionary path is going to be a nightmare. It 
is already a nightmare for genuine PAC members now. Current developments and 
our experience are a bady testimonyy to our fears. We have not forgotten the 
way we were manhandled in PAC. ONCE BEATEN TWICE SHY! We know we are being 
invited to go into the Dingane's kraal so that history can repeat itself. 
Certain PAC member will agree with me.

Izwe Lethu!

 --
Sent from my Nokia phone

--Original message--
From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
To: 
,<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>,,"Nkrumah
 Raymond Kgagudi" 
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:56:13 PM GMT+0200
Subject: [PAYCO] The 27th--28th September Conference Report

Izwe lethu M'Afrika

Today from 3:00 am I was reading the report (attached) presented by PAC
Secretary General Narius Moloto at Botshabelo Stadium Arena on the 27th
-28th September factional Conference. This report was supposed to be both
organisational and political report which accounts ad explains about the
PAC's progress to advance the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto summed as the
five (5) Aims and Objectives of the PAC. The organisational and political
report should go further to objectively propose and recommend actions that
must be undertaken to unite and strengthen the PAC's fighting capacity to
propagate and advance Pan Africanist ideas in Azania and at Pan African
scope, but the report dismally fails to adopt a constructive attitude and
approach but it energy and resources were spent (wasted) to wage personal
attacks and reporting about the ANC! It is time that PAC members and
branches should unite and focus on propagating and advancing Pan Africanist
ideas as articulated by the President Kwame Nkrumah and the founders of PAC
in 1959. 

Haai M'Afrika, it is indeed tough and has become the darkest moments of PAC,
simply because the worst rot and decay has taken toll, in my life -more than
24 years from PASO to PASMA to PAC, I have never seen such form of a
national report which does nothing but sharpens internal party antagonisms
and aims at heightening internal feuding in the party! This report does
nothing but mobilises those who attended the Botshabelo September 2014
Conference to sharpen their claws in the factional battles. 

Almost majority of pages and content of the report is personality attacks
and failures of this or NEC members. The report when summed up, it says PAC
is a hopeless party, this you can easily read once again on page 34-35! It
is PAC Conference which should consider and deliberate on PAC' ideological,
political and organisational progress since 2012 July Umtata-Butterworth
National Congress and also recommendations as to what must be done to unite,
rebuild and advance Pan Africanism but the report there are more pages
dedicated on justifying internal factional feuding and ANC Activities!

The report fails to reflect and analyse the daily struggles faced and waged
by the labouring African majority. The report does not further explain that
the current epoch of people's suffering is a direct consequence of
neo-colonialism which is nothing but a manifestation of stranglehold of
capitalism and white supremacy, whose destruction requires the party to
focus and deepen mobilisation and organisation of the most downtrodden and
toiling labouring African majority on an socialist programme! Surely, the
report was supposed to confirm what Chairman John Nyathi Pokela once uttered
that settler colonial apartheid system cannot be reformed but must
dismantled by total overthrow by all means necessary, and that 1994 did
vokol however reformed an oppressive and exploitative capitalist and white
supremacist system! 

The report fails to explain and reflect on the s

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Mphiri Masoga]

Cde Linda 

Apology accepted M'Afrika Linda. 

Thank you for Honest and sober response Son of the Soil, it is unfortunate that 
all of us have the same Vision, Mission and Destiny but we differ in terms of 
how we should get there. The how part is a problem. 

There are also those who have personal hatred to some who ascended to Caretaker 
Leadership. confirmed by the Conference where all the so called factions were 
represented and a compromise was reached in order to have the PAC we all want. 

I would like to address the issue of the Conference held at Bloem where PAC 
Cadres decided they will not be part of and are not willing to accept its 
outcomes. It is unfortunate that the Leadership that is not even 3 months in 
office is expected to be report on what they delivered since taking up 
Leadership which is unfair and lacks Logic. 

Comrade Linda as much as I served with you in PAYCO leadership and respect you 
Force I question he Motive of displaying Negativity and Energy to rubbish all 
or any efforts to create a conducive environment for PAC members and Cadres to 
operate and have the opportunity to engage on the Relevance of the PAC in a Neo 
Colonial State and adopt collective POA which will be implemented Nationally. 

I believe through our structures we are able to set the Agenda and correct 
whatever we believe is wrong or incorrect within the party. We also have the 
opportunity to Crush the ANC Capitalist System starting from Municipalities on 
daily issues that affect our Communities. Are doing our bit?   

We are quick to wage War internally and question everything that is being done 
to resuscitate the party. Before we engage in any Revolutionary Pan Africanist 
Programmes, is it not correct to CLEAN our HOUSE with negative publicity we 
received on daily basis. 

Lastly your answers resemble what was said before the conference, which I 
believe is a continuation of the same programme by those who called for TOTAL 
BAN of the Bloem Conference can that be confirmed Joni?

I will pause here, thank you Force.
  
kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:55:25 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Cde Mphiri,

My apologies for responding late. I have been driving for the last 4 hours and 
could not respond in time to your enquiries.

I wrote the communique as the co-convener of the meeting and former President 
of PAYCO who is really concerned about the state of the party.

We are committed party members who want the PAC to re-establish its original 
mandate, of being a revolutionary socialist movement, that seeks to overturn 
the current capitalist society and create an Africanist Socialist democracy. We 
are not outside the party at all.

Currently we have 3 feuding NEC's, "Letlapa's NEC", "Mphethi's NEC" and 
"Narious-Mbinda NEC". We don't believe this situation is good for the party 
hence this intervention.

We are party members, if our party is under attack we would not ask anyone's 
permission to defend it. We have a duty to defend the legacy of PAC pioneers 
and the future of African people.

We are revolutionary Pan Africanist and members of the PAC who have led party 
structures at different level. We are cadres who believe party members must be 
rallied and mobilized around a Programme of Action as opposed to personalities 
and factions.

We shall have many engagements with party members through social networks, 
communique's, visits in different branches, regions, provinces and other 
national gatherings. We shall be everywhere where PAC is discussed to ensure 
that the agenda is programme of action, seizure of state power and Unification 
of Africa not personalities and factional agendas.

We want to lead a revolt not to assimilate to the parliamentary nonsense that 
different factions are fighting over.

PAC needs to lead real revolution not tokenism.

Hope you will find this in order.

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme


Good Morning Linda 

Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the current 
Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents of that 
meeting?

As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left the 
organisation and or are operating outside party fold.   

What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction" or 
grouping?

 Can you also identif

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Mphiri Masoga]

Cde Linda 

Apology accepted M'Afrika Linda. 

Thank you for Honest and sober response Son of the Soil, it is unfortunate that 
all of us have the same Vision, Mission and Destiny but we differ in terms of 
how we should get there. The how part is a problem. 

There are also those who have personal hatred to some who ascended to Caretaker 
Leadership. confirmed by the Conference where all the so called factions were 
represented and a compromise was reached in order to have the PAC we all want. 

I would like to address the issue of the Conference held at Bloem where PAC 
Cadres decided they will not be part of and are not willing to accept its 
outcomes. It is unfortunate that the Leadership that is not even 3 months in 
office is expected to be report on what they delivered since taking up 
Leadership which is unfair and lacks Logic. 

Comrade Linda as much as I served with you in PAYCO leadership and respect you 
Force I question he Motive of displaying Negativity and Energy to rubbish all 
or any efforts to create a conducive environment for PAC members and Cadres to 
operate and have the opportunity to engage on the Relevance of the PAC in a Neo 
Colonial State and adopt collective POA which will be implemented Nationally. 

I believe through our structures we are able to set the Agenda and correct 
whatever we believe is wrong or incorrect within the party. We also have the 
opportunity to Crush the ANC Capitalist System starting from Municipalities on 
daily issues that affect our Communities. Are doing our bit?   

We are quick to wage War internally and question everything that is being done 
to resuscitate the party. Before we engage in any Revolutionary Pan Africanist 
Programmes, is it not correct to CLEAN our HOUSE with negative publicity we 
received on daily basis. 

Lastly your answers resemble what was said before the conference, which I 
believe is a continuation of the same programme by those who called for TOTAL 
BAN of the Bloem Conference can that be confirmed Joni?

I will pause here, thank you Force.
  
kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:55:25 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Cde Mphiri,

My apologies for responding late. I have been driving for the last 4 hours and 
could not respond in time to your enquiries.

I wrote the communique as the co-convener of the meeting and former President 
of PAYCO who is really concerned about the state of the party.

We are committed party members who want the PAC to re-establish its original 
mandate, of being a revolutionary socialist movement, that seeks to overturn 
the current capitalist society and create an Africanist Socialist democracy. We 
are not outside the party at all.

Currently we have 3 feuding NEC's, "Letlapa's NEC", "Mphethi's NEC" and 
"Narious-Mbinda NEC". We don't believe this situation is good for the party 
hence this intervention.

We are party members, if our party is under attack we would not ask anyone's 
permission to defend it. We have a duty to defend the legacy of PAC pioneers 
and the future of African people.

We are revolutionary Pan Africanist and members of the PAC who have led party 
structures at different level. We are cadres who believe party members must be 
rallied and mobilized around a Programme of Action as opposed to personalities 
and factions.

We shall have many engagements with party members through social networks, 
communique's, visits in different branches, regions, provinces and other 
national gatherings. We shall be everywhere where PAC is discussed to ensure 
that the agenda is programme of action, seizure of state power and Unification 
of Africa not personalities and factional agendas.

We want to lead a revolt not to assimilate to the parliamentary nonsense that 
different factions are fighting over.

PAC needs to lead real revolution not tokenism.

Hope you will find this in order.

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme


Good Morning Linda 

Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the current 
Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents of that 
meeting?

As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left the 
organisation and or are operating outside party fold.   

What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction" or 
grouping?

 Can you also identif

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Linda Ndebele]

Indeed not in our name! We had enough of neo-liberal tendencies. We are 
repositioning PAC to be a true vanguard of our people, No one will dare stop us!

Izwe lethu!

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "matome" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:06:16 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Comrade Lion,

I agree entirely with the essence of your email. You are right to implore us 
away from trifles; to focus us on the challenge of leading our people to 
battle. 

One of the reasons mediocrity has managed to take control of the party, and to 
divert it from its historical radical line is by beating our advanced and 
revolutionary cadres into despondency. The strategy of these mediocres is to 
pile up the pressure of frustration against our competent cadres until only 
them are left to scavenge on the party, squeezing its soul while using only the 
name of the party but rejecting all its principles. Once they have beaten all 
of us into frustration, they run amok with the party, stamping their line of 
apology and suit and tie modicum as the defining thrust of the party. They then 
label everyone who dare question why they have turned the PAC into a 
kind-hearted sweet goat instead of retaining its historical mandate as a war 
machinery for our people. They label any talk of revolution as ridiculous and 
call some of us as being 'too much'. Too much for what ? Yes we must be too 
much and beyond to fight the regime that is killing, stealing and destroying 
everything. They want us to be civil and reasonable against a regime that is 
shooting our people and starving a vast majority. That is why they call us too 
much. 

This apologists have in fact taken over the party although they represent 
everything against the party. We have to be forthright and targeted in the 
assault of this line for it is as good as having the regime running our party. 
They gate-keep for the regime, stopping us from declaring a war against a 
regime that is blood thirsty and blood sucking !

We have shared thoughts on the thrust of a program of action, and that has to 
be pursued with or without them. What has become apparent though is that we 
cannot assign the execution of this revolutionary bloody program to them 
bacause they don't believe in it. They believe in administration instead of 
believing in its collapse through mass action, armed uprising, street fights et 
cetera.

We must lose all manner of tolerance towards this group because it is not PAC 
whatsoever. It is a negation of the many martyrs who died for us. 

Only this line is correct, the line of a Program of Action. We have said it 
over and over again, and since some of them ara incapable of hearing or seeing 
just like the belligerence of the regime, we must this time ram it into their 
heads by whatever means necessary.

We cannot be delayed to engage the regime. The workers are ready, the students 
are ready, the poor masses are ready ! Only these socalled leaders of 'ours' 
are not ready and prefer a gentleman 's talk. Not in our name !!!

Izwe Lethu

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: "AUBREY NGWATLE" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:49:06 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:29:22 +0200 "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi"
 wrote

> M'Afrika Percy
> 
> In as much one wishes to answer your question, the failure to answer is
> carried within your own question because of the following anormalies that
> occurred, without being dragged and drawn into internal feuding details,
what
> is confronting us is the forward movement of the PAC. Hence, we posit before
> all members that it is imminent that PAC branches and members denounce
anyone
> advocating Anti-Unity, secondly we urge all PAC branches and members to
unite
> on the basis of a Programme of Action for the Seizure of State Political
> Power to Advance and Establish the Africanist Socialist Democracy! Hence we
> urge and appeal with all PAC Branches and members to organise inclusive
> regional and provincial conferences as we engage the three (3) feuding NECs
> to unite on the basis of Programme of Action!  
>
> Rena Ga Re Nyake Ditshele, Re Nyaka Revolution!
> 
> Shnago Lashu
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgaudi   
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> percy motswaledi Sent: 27 October 2014 03:09 PM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mphiri Masoga
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme
> 
> Good Day MoAfrika Linda
> 
> its Lion of Azania Here
> Mr Mphiri Masoga is attacking you in pu

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[matome]

Comrade Lion,

I agree entirely with the essence of your email. You are right to implore us 
away from trifles; to focus us on the challenge of leading our people to 
battle. 

One of the reasons mediocrity has managed to take control of the party, and to 
divert it from its historical radical line is by beating our advanced and 
revolutionary cadres into despondency. The strategy of these mediocres is to 
pile up the pressure of frustration against our competent cadres until only 
them are left to scavenge on the party, squeezing its soul while using only the 
name of the party but rejecting all its principles. Once they have beaten all 
of us into frustration, they run amok with the party, stamping their line of 
apology and suit and tie modicum as the defining thrust of the party. They then 
label everyone who dare question why they have turned the PAC into a 
kind-hearted sweet goat instead of retaining its historical mandate as a war 
machinery for our people. They label any talk of revolution as ridiculous and 
call some of us as being 'too much'. Too much for what ? Yes we must be too 
much and beyond to fight the regime that is killing, stealing and destroying 
everything. They want us to be civil and reasonable against a regime that is 
shooting our people and starving a vast majority. That is why they call us too 
much. 

This apologists have in fact taken over the party although they represent 
everything against the party. We have to be forthright and targeted in the 
assault of this line for it is as good as having the regime running our party. 
They gate-keep for the regime, stopping us from declaring a war against a 
regime that is blood thirsty and blood sucking !

We have shared thoughts on the thrust of a program of action, and that has to 
be pursued with or without them. What has become apparent though is that we 
cannot assign the execution of this revolutionary bloody program to them 
bacause they don't believe in it. They believe in administration instead of 
believing in its collapse through mass action, armed uprising, street fights et 
cetera.

We must lose all manner of tolerance towards this group because it is not PAC 
whatsoever. It is a negation of the many martyrs who died for us. 

Only this line is correct, the line of a Program of Action. We have said it 
over and over again, and since some of them ara incapable of hearing or seeing 
just like the belligerence of the regime, we must this time ram it into their 
heads by whatever means necessary.

We cannot be delayed to engage the regime. The workers are ready, the students 
are ready, the poor masses are ready ! Only these socalled leaders of 'ours' 
are not ready and prefer a gentleman 's talk. Not in our name !!!

Izwe Lethu

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: "AUBREY NGWATLE" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:49:06 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:29:22 +0200 "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi"
 wrote

> M'Afrika Percy
> 
> In as much one wishes to answer your question, the failure to answer is
> carried within your own question because of the following anormalies that
> occurred, without being dragged and drawn into internal feuding details,
what
> is confronting us is the forward movement of the PAC. Hence, we posit before
> all members that it is imminent that PAC branches and members denounce
anyone
> advocating Anti-Unity, secondly we urge all PAC branches and members to
unite
> on the basis of a Programme of Action for the Seizure of State Political
> Power to Advance and Establish the Africanist Socialist Democracy! Hence we
> urge and appeal with all PAC Branches and members to organise inclusive
> regional and provincial conferences as we engage the three (3) feuding NECs
> to unite on the basis of Programme of Action!  
>
> Rena Ga Re Nyake Ditshele, Re Nyaka Revolution!
> 
> Shnago Lashu
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgaudi   
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> percy motswaledi Sent: 27 October 2014 03:09 PM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mphiri Masoga
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme
> 
> Good Day MoAfrika Linda
> 
> its Lion of Azania Here
> Mr Mphiri Masoga is attacking you in public Platform and with Emmotions i
> want us to enterogate his Emotions because they may have different meaning
> and this time i am sure one covers his failures and its a petty that people
> look at their stomach and forget about the Broather Movement, From me, The
> Meeting that discuss the revaival of PAC is Relevant that to interogate the
> status od the Meeting, i have a quetion YOU all, Who is PAc president and
> what is he doing to 

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[AUBREY NGWATLE]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:29:22 +0200 "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi"
 wrote

> M'Afrika Percy
> 
> In as much one wishes to answer your question, the failure to answer is
> carried within your own question because of the following anormalies that
> occurred, without being dragged and drawn into internal feuding details,
what
> is confronting us is the forward movement of the PAC. Hence, we posit before
> all members that it is imminent that PAC branches and members denounce
anyone
> advocating Anti-Unity, secondly we urge all PAC branches and members to
unite
> on the basis of a Programme of Action for the Seizure of State Political
> Power to Advance and Establish the Africanist Socialist Democracy! Hence we
> urge and appeal with all PAC Branches and members to organise inclusive
> regional and provincial conferences as we engage the three (3) feuding NECs
> to unite on the basis of Programme of Action!  
>
> Rena Ga Re Nyake Ditshele, Re Nyaka Revolution!
> 
> Shnago Lashu
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgaudi   
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> percy motswaledi Sent: 27 October 2014 03:09 PM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mphiri Masoga
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme
> 
> Good Day MoAfrika Linda
> 
> its Lion of Azania Here
> Mr Mphiri Masoga is attacking you in public Platform and with Emmotions i
> want us to enterogate his Emotions because they may have different meaning
> and this time i am sure one covers his failures and its a petty that people
> look at their stomach and forget about the Broather Movement, From me, The
> Meeting that discuss the revaival of PAC is Relevant that to interogate the
> status od the Meeting, i have a quetion YOU all, Who is PAc president and
> what is he doing to build the Party,if he is doing some thing, where is he
> doing it, that man he is Invisible and we wand Visibility. 
>
> Now my suggestion is Stop Harassing the Frastrated Africans and Champion
real
> challenges affecting p[eople and Start with Ebola 
>
> 
> 
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 + "Mphiri Masoga"  wrote
> 
> > Good Morning Linda
> > 
> > Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were 
> > the current Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former 
> > Presidents of that meeting?
> >
> > As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents
left
> > the organisation and or are operating outside party fold.
> >
> > What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called
> > "faction" or grouping? 
> >
> >  Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your
> > correspondence, on what capacity are you writingkind Regards, 
> > 
> > Mphiri Masoga
> > SACWU PTA
> > Tel : 012 320 6472
> > Fax : 012 320 2179
> > Fax2Email: 0862254254
> > Cell : 0731822656
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: "Linda Ndebele" 
> > Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09
> > To: 
> > Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme
> > 
> > Revolutionary greetings,
> >  
> > To all PAC members and structures:
> >  
> > After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
> > groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this 
> > past Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to 
> > correct and radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic 
> > liberal path. We resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring 
> > solutions to the party 's faction-based and leadership capacity 
> > challenges. The meeting widens in
> scope
> > at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The 
> > Saturday meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by 
> > former Payco Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading 
> > PAC figures. Key resolutions taken include the following:
> > 1.To denounce all three feuding NEC groups 2. 

> >   To form ourselves as a Programme of Action Team for an Africanist 
> > Socialist Democracy 3.
> > To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the three feuding 
> > factions 4.Call for the convening of an All Inclusive 
> > Conference (open to all party members) administered by an independent 
> > team with an objective to consolidate party unity and to adopt a 
> > National Programme of Action for seizure of state political p

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Linda Ndebele]

Cde Mphiri,

My apologies for responding late. I have been driving for the last 4 hours and 
could not respond in time to your enquiries.

I wrote the communique as the co-convener of the meeting and former President 
of PAYCO who is really concerned about the state of the party.

We are committed party members who want the PAC to re-establish its original 
mandate, of being a revolutionary socialist movement, that seeks to overturn 
the current capitalist society and create an Africanist Socialist democracy. We 
are not outside the party at all.

Currently we have 3 feuding NEC's, "Letlapa's NEC", "Mphethi's NEC" and 
"Narious-Mbinda NEC". We don't believe this situation is good for the party 
hence this intervention.

We are party members, if our party is under attack we would not ask anyone's 
permission to defend it. We have a duty to defend the legacy of PAC pioneers 
and the future of African people.

We are revolutionary Pan Africanist and members of the PAC who have led party 
structures at different level. We are cadres who believe party members must be 
rallied and mobilized around a Programme of Action as opposed to personalities 
and factions.

We shall have many engagements with party members through social networks, 
communique's, visits in different branches, regions, provinces and other 
national gatherings. We shall be everywhere where PAC is discussed to ensure 
that the agenda is programme of action, seizure of state power and Unification 
of Africa not personalities and factional agendas.

We want to lead a revolt not to assimilate to the parliamentary nonsense that 
different factions are fighting over.

PAC needs to lead real revolution not tokenism.

Hope you will find this in order.

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme


Good Morning Linda 

Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the current 
Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents of that 
meeting?

As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left the 
organisation and or are operating outside party fold.   

What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction" or 
grouping?

 Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your correspondence, 
on what capacity are you writing   
kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Revolutionary greetings,
 
To all PAC members and structures:
 
After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this past 
Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to correct and 
radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic liberal path. We 
resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring solutions to the party 's 
faction-based and leadership capacity challenges. The meeting widens in scope 
at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The Saturday 
meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by former Payco 
Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading PAC figures. Key 
resolutions taken include the following:
 
1.    To denounce all three feuding NEC groups
2.    To form ourselves as a Programme of Action Team for an 
Africanist Socialist Democracy
3.    To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the three 
feuding factions
4.    Call for the convening of an All Inclusive Conference (open 
to all party members) administered by an independent team with an objective to 
consolidate party unity and to adopt a National Programme of Action for seizure 
of state political power and establishment of an Africanist Socialist Democracy
5.    To call for the three purported NEC’s to report and account 
in a national Conference
6.    Mobilise and Engage party members, branches and veterans
   
 
In conclusion, we make this call to all our cadres and all PAC members to join 
us on a path to re-build and re-organise the Party-PAC on a radical 
revolutionary Program of Action. Our definitive focus is the aggressive 
resolution of our problems using the Program of Action as the principal means. 
It is a call not to be missed !!
 
Linda K Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-- 
-- 
Sending your posti

RE: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

M'Afrika Percy

In as much one wishes to answer your question, the failure to answer is carried 
within your own question because of the following anormalies that occurred, 
without being dragged and drawn into internal feuding details, what is 
confronting us is the forward movement of the PAC. Hence, we posit before all 
members that it is imminent that PAC branches and members denounce anyone 
advocating Anti-Unity, secondly we urge all PAC branches and members to unite 
on the basis of a Programme of Action for the Seizure of State Political Power 
to Advance and Establish the Africanist Socialist Democracy! Hence we urge and 
appeal with all PAC Branches and members to organise inclusive regional and 
provincial conferences as we engage the three (3) feuding NECs to unite on the 
basis of Programme of Action! 

Rena Ga Re Nyake Ditshele, Re Nyaka Revolution!

Shnago Lashu
Nkrumah Raymond Kgaudi   

-Original Message-
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of percy 
motswaledi
Sent: 27 October 2014 03:09 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mphiri Masoga
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Good Day MoAfrika Linda

its Lion of Azania Here
Mr Mphiri Masoga is attacking you in public Platform and with Emmotions i want 
us to enterogate his Emotions because they may have different meaning and this 
time i am sure one covers his failures and its a petty that people look at 
their stomach and forget about the Broather Movement, From me, The Meeting that 
discuss the revaival of PAC is Relevant that to interogate the status od the 
Meeting, i have a quetion YOU all, Who is PAc president and what is he doing to 
build the Party,if he is doing some thing, where is he doing it, that man he is 
Invisible and we wand Visibility.

Now my suggestion is Stop Harassing the Frastrated Africans and Champion real 
challenges affecting p[eople and Start with Ebola



On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 + "Mphiri Masoga"  wrote

> Good Morning Linda
> 
> Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were 
> the current Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former 
> Presidents of that meeting?
>
> As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left
> the organisation and or are operating outside party fold.
>
> What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction"
> or grouping? 
>
>  Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your
> correspondence, on what capacity are you writingkind Regards, 
> 
> Mphiri Masoga
> SACWU PTA
> Tel : 012 320 6472
> Fax : 012 320 2179
> Fax2Email: 0862254254
> Cell : 0731822656
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "Linda Ndebele" 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme
> 
> Revolutionary greetings,
>  
> To all PAC members and structures:
>  
> After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
> groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this 
> past Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to 
> correct and radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic 
> liberal path. We resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring 
> solutions to the party 's faction-based and leadership capacity 
> challenges. The meeting widens in
scope
> at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The 
> Saturday meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by 
> former Payco Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading 
> PAC figures. Key resolutions taken include the following:
> 1.To denounce all three feuding NEC groups 2.
> To form ourselves as a Programme of Action Team for an Africanist 
> Socialist Democracy 3.
> To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the three feuding 
> factions 4.Call for the convening of an All Inclusive 
> Conference (open to all party members) administered by an independent 
> team with an objective to consolidate party unity and to adopt a 
> National Programme of Action for seizure of state political power and 
> establishment
of
> an Africanist Socialist Democracy 5.To call for the 
> three purported NEC’s to report and account in a national Conference 
> 6.Mobilise and Engage party members, branches and 
> veterans
>  
> In conclusion, we make this call to all our cadres and all PAC members 
> to join us on a path to re-build and re-organise the Party-PAC on a 
> radical revolutionary Program of Action. Our definitive focus is the 
> aggressive resolution of our problems

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[percy motswaledi]

Good Day MoAfrika Linda

its Lion of Azania Here
Mr Mphiri Masoga is attacking you in public Platform and with Emmotions
i want us to enterogate his Emotions because they may have different meaning
and this time i am sure one covers his failures and its a petty that people
look at their stomach and forget about the Broather Movement,
>From me, The Meeting that discuss the revaival of PAC is Relevant that to
interogate the status od the Meeting, i have a quetion YOU all, Who is PAc
president and what is he doing to build the Party,if he is doing some thing,
where is he doing it, that man he is Invisible and we wand Visibility.

Now my suggestion is Stop Harassing the Frastrated Africans and Champion real
challenges affecting p[eople and Start with Ebola



On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 + "Mphiri Masoga"  wrote

> Good Morning Linda 
> 
> Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the
> current Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents
> of that meeting? 
>
> As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left
> the organisation and or are operating outside party fold.
>
> What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction"
> or grouping? 
>
>  Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your
> correspondence, on what capacity are you writingkind Regards, 
> 
> Mphiri Masoga 
> SACWU PTA
> Tel : 012 320 6472
> Fax : 012 320 2179
> Fax2Email: 0862254254
> Cell : 0731822656
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "Linda Ndebele" 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09 
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme
> 
> Revolutionary greetings,
>  
> To all PAC members and structures:
>  
> After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC
> groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this past
> Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to correct and
> radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic liberal path. We
> resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring solutions to the party 's
> faction-based and leadership capacity challenges. The meeting widens in
scope
> at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The Saturday
> meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by former Payco
> Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading PAC figures. Key
> resolutions taken include the following:  
> 1.    To denounce all three feuding NEC groups
> 2.    To form ourselves as a Programme of Action
> Team for an Africanist Socialist Democracy 3.   
> To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the three feuding factions
> 4.    Call for the convening of an All Inclusive
> Conference (open to all party members) administered by an independent team
> with an objective to consolidate party unity and to adopt a National
> Programme of Action for seizure of state political power and establishment
of
> an Africanist Socialist Democracy 5.    To call
> for the three purported NEC’s to report and account in a national
> Conference 6.    Mobilise and Engage party
> members, branches and veterans    
>  
> In conclusion, we make this call to all our cadres and all PAC members to
> join us on a path to re-build and re-organise the Party-PAC on a radical
> revolutionary Program of Action. Our definitive focus is the aggressive
> resolution of our problems using the Program of Action as the principal
> means. It is a call not to be missed !!  
> Linda K Ndebele
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
> 
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> 
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
> 
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
> 
> --- 
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RE: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Masoga

I Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi, formed part of the meeting reported by Cde Linda 
Ndebele, all comrades who attended the meeting on the 15th October 2014 are PAC 
members in as far as I recalled none of them were expelled nor terminated their 
PAC membership. However, who attended the meeting is immaterial what is 
substantive is to arrest the disintegration of the PAC by feuds and self 
selving individuals pursuing rightist political line. 

The most basic and straightforward aspect that must be addressed  and agreed to 
is:-

1. Unity of PAC branches and members for the seizure of state political power 
and establishment of an Africanist Socialist Democracy;
2. We need a mediation team to facilitate dissolution of parallel structures 
across the country and organisation of an inclusive national conference of PAC;
3. To form a Programme of Action Team which will undertake to develop a 
political Programme of Action to advance and establish an Africanist Socialist 
Democracy;
4. Any person against unity of PAC members must be denounced by PAC Branches 
and members;

Cde Masoga, you either agree with the above four (4) points or not! Please do 
not play the person by avoiding the ball. The continuing disunity in the PAC is 
heavely undermining execution of the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto and this 
must be stopped, PAC Must Rise To Lead And To Govern Azaia!

Shango lashu
Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
 
-Original Message-
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mphiri Masoga
Sent: 27 October 2014 11:59 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme


Good Morning Linda 

Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the current 
Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents of that 
meeting?

As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left the 
organisation and or are operating outside party fold.   

What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction" or 
grouping?

 Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your correspondence, 
on what capacity are you writing   
kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Revolutionary greetings,
 
To all PAC members and structures:
 
After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this past 
Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to correct and 
radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic liberal path. We 
resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring solutions to the party 's 
faction-based and leadership capacity challenges. The meeting widens in scope 
at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The Saturday 
meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by former Payco 
Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading PAC figures. Key 
resolutions taken include the following:
 
1.To denounce all three feuding NEC groups 2.To 
form ourselves as a Programme of Action Team for an Africanist Socialist 
Democracy 3.To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the 
three feuding factions 4.Call for the convening of an All 
Inclusive Conference (open to all party members) administered by an independent 
team with an objective to consolidate party unity and to adopt a National 
Programme of Action for seizure of state political power and establishment of 
an Africanist Socialist Democracy 5.To call for the three 
purported NEC’s to report and account in a national Conference 6.   
 Mobilise and Engage party members, branches and veterans
   
 
In conclusion, we make this call to all our cadres and all PAC members to join 
us on a path to re-build and re-organise the Party-PAC on a radical 
revolutionary Program of Action. Our definitive focus is the aggressive 
resolution of our problems using the Program of Action as the principal means. 
It is a call not to be missed !!
 
Linda K Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

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Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[matome]

I have to say that this initiative Cde Linda, has to be supported and I am sure 
there are many who support it except those of our members who are beholden and 
pocket owned. This we must understand, and they will be rescued from the claws 
of the hyenas in time but we have to move the PAC off the idling state. This 
particularly has my support given its focus on a radicalisation program of 
action. If this effort will be categorised as a faction, it is one and the only 
one I will gladly associate myself with !!!

I also think all involved must be ruthless in the intolerance of mediocrity and 
the ideological nonsense going on in the party, including some statements made 
in the name of the PAC which are at total variance with the ideological stance 
of the party. 

It is the nice nice approach that has made all of us complicit in the 
assassination of the party. There has to be a certain level of 'madness' in 
resolving our state especially because the game is not inside but outside of 
the PAC. The people need leadership. They are confronting the system bare 
knuckles, and the regime is killing, only these socalled NEC want to wage a 
suit and tie struggle.

Those who wish to defend the current mediocrity due to the 10 shilling support 
they get from it, we will rescue them as the train moves. The clock has been 
ticking for sometime now, and I for one commend the effort and urge you and 
team to up the heat. Those who see leadership as a suit and tie, and as an 
office and pen struggle, they must continue on that line but should be informed 
that they represent themselves. They have veered off the PAC historical 
mandate, only to pursue personal prestige never wanting to uproot the system. 
We must not seek to administer the system better, we must uproot it through all 
means legal and non legal. Only these mediocres want to be gentle. Even the 
regime is operating illegally, killing and destroying our people 's lives. Yes 
you are right, that this liberal girlish apology line being pursued cannot be 
in our name.

Those who are beholden to 10 shillings can differ with us here and quitely 
support us in the quiteness of their homes, we will rescue them as we move. We 
understand their difficulty. Those with wrong sheepish approach to the ruling 
elite must not do it in our name, they should form an NGO to pursue that. It is 
not costly to form an NGO.

Let the date for the end of November meeting be decided and we shall attend and 
nothing should stop us from radicalising the party to confront the regime. The 
pretence that people are against the system must cease, we must now go for the 
jagular, and if need be water this new page with our blood just as ordinary 
people are already doing !!

As for journalistic question and answer sessions, and a request for further 
particulars' approach by some here, I will advise that the focus should be on 
the essence and the key message, a message of a Program of Action aimed at 
confronting and millitarisation.

Izwe Lethu

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme


Good Morning Linda 

Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the current 
Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents of that 
meeting?

As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left the 
organisation and or are operating outside party fold.   

What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction" or 
grouping?

 Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your correspondence, 
on what capacity are you writing   
kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Revolutionary greetings,
 
To all PAC members and structures:
 
After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this past 
Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to correct and 
radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic liberal path. We 
resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring solutions to the party 's 
faction-based and leadership capacity challenges. The meeting widens in scope 
at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The Saturday 
meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by former Payco 
Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading PAC figures. Key 
resolutions taken include the follo

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Mphiri Masoga]

Good Morning Linda 

Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the current 
Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents of that 
meeting?

As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left the 
organisation and or are operating outside party fold.   

What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction" or 
grouping?

 Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your correspondence, 
on what capacity are you writing   
kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Revolutionary greetings,
 
To all PAC members and structures:
 
After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this past 
Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to correct and 
radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic liberal path. We 
resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring solutions to the party 's 
faction-based and leadership capacity challenges. The meeting widens in scope 
at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The Saturday 
meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by former Payco 
Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading PAC figures. Key 
resolutions taken include the following:
 
1.    To denounce all three feuding NEC groups
2.    To form ourselves as a Programme of Action Team for an 
Africanist Socialist Democracy
3.    To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the three 
feuding factions
4.    Call for the convening of an All Inclusive Conference (open 
to all party members) administered by an independent team with an objective to 
consolidate party unity and to adopt a National Programme of Action for seizure 
of state political power and establishment of an Africanist Socialist Democracy
5.    To call for the three purported NEC’s to report and account 
in a national Conference
6.    Mobilise and Engage party members, branches and veterans
   
 
In conclusion, we make this call to all our cadres and all PAC members to join 
us on a path to re-build and re-organise the Party-PAC on a radical 
revolutionary Program of Action. Our definitive focus is the aggressive 
resolution of our problems using the Program of Action as the principal means. 
It is a call not to be missed !!
 
Linda K Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

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Re: [PAYCO] Determing A Good Standing Branch

['Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

Comrades Comrade Ray what Apa communicated it is a true reflection of the 
discussions held. That is why already there is a fabrication about the meeting 
outcome because the effect of that unity and its expansion thereof as you put 
it will go a long way in assisting stabilising the party. I also briefed the 
meeting about the gathering we postponed and that very soon there is a need to 
engage further as many PAC people as possible. What was good about the meeting 
is that most of us who attended the meeting have post unity leadership 
ambitions so that all what you do Ray, Linda, Siya and all other comrades get 
unqualified support. I am saying this because other people think that in this 
current crisis they will opportunistically rise to the top hence their 
behaviour. Anyway ll the best comrades. 

 On Monday, October 13, 2014 12:14 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
 wrote:
   

  Determining a 
Good Standing Branch! Izwe lethu  During the Leadership Development Workshop 
held on the 11th October 2014, attended by 7 Branch Executive Committees coming 
from Johannesburg Region plus PASO members and Eastrand/ Ekhuruleni Regional 
Executive Committee member, the constitutional interpretation and application 
of the concept-principle member(s) in Good Standing and/or branch(es) in Good 
Standing lost its full comprehensive meaning and content. And this largely, 
furthermore explains some of the political and organisational problems facing 
the party.   The incorrect thus incomplete interpretation and application of 
the principle Good Standing has been reduced to narrowly imply :-• A member in 
good standing has been understood and applied as meaning a paid up member from 
a launched branch with at least 20 paid members; • and a branch in good 
standing meant which had its Annual General and with 20 plus paid up members 
having an elected Branch Executive Committee;  This (above) interpretation is 
incomplete since it focus narrowly on selected few clauses which are mainly 
administrative and partly organisational, but this interpretation ignored the 
political requirements to define and describe a Good Standing Branch and a Good 
Standing Member. Section 20.1 until 20.3 provide almost eight requirements 
which further provides a description of what constitutes a PAC branch 
constitutionally for a branch to politically qualify and meet the first part to 
be a Good Standing Branch! These eight requirement are well described and 
stated in section   Political Component and Elements:-  
| Clause No. |    | Applicable Constitutional Requirement-Prescripts |
| 20.1 |
   -   
 | Carry organizational work amongst the masses |
|
   -   
 | Carry educational work amongst the masses |
|
   -   
 | Acquaint them with the aims and objects, policies and programmes of the 
organization |
| 20.2 |
   -   
 | Keep (continuous and constant) close contact with the masses and  |
|
   -   
 | Provide continual leadership and guidance to the oppressed people in area |
| 20.3 |
   -   
 | Foster the spirit of initiative among the people  |
|
   -   
 | Take the leading part in organizing the masses to solve problem in the area. 
|
|
   -   
 | Organise the masses to solve their problems in the area |

    Therefore, a branch can be deemed as a Good Standing branch because it 
fully complies with clause 20.1 until 20.3, its (branch) activities which 
serves as evidence to demonstrate and proof that the branch’ political mandates 
as per clause 20.1 until 20.3 had been carried out. The above diagram should 
also be understood within the context that the PAC considers a branch as a 
basic building block whose primary purpose of existence is to propagate the 
Aims and Objectives of the PAC among the masses and also execute strategies 
which enables the PAC though the branch to exist and operate within and among 
the labouring African majority. Therefore, a branch is a party's political 
organ for mass mobilisation and mass agitation, therefore a Good Standing 
Branch is a branch which fully carries and execute the party's political 
mandate as per clause 20.1 until clause 20.3.   I will share the other 
components of determining a Good Standing Branch of PAC as the days unfolds!  
Shango lashu!Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  Sending your posting to 
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RE: [PAYCO] PAC National Conference, Bloemfontein

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

M’Afrika

 

Reality, is it become immaterial to jump high or lows with no significant 
influence of the branches and members of the PAC. Let’s swallow a bitter pill 
and face reality which is PAC is disintegrating before our very own eyes, and 
no-one will propagate our ideas and methods we deem appropriate to arrest the 
disintegration of PAC but ourselves. 

 

At times and commonly out of the state of decay and decomposition, life arises. 
The Russian and Chinese Communist Parties had undergone similar organisational 
and political challenges but through political organisation that is based on a 
clear political programme they prevailed! 

 

Let those who advocate principled unity and re-organisation of PAC construct 
and execute the programme!  

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Tongogara Ndima
Sent: 29 September 2014 08:35 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mbulelo Raymond; po...@yahoo.com; Xola Tyamzashe; 
phillip Dhlamini; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; sindi 
mbele; Cape; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modise; Zola Nyamela; eddie 
mfulwane; Alton Mphethi; Moshe Mahlomola; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; 
bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; Lehlogonolo Digashu; Phumzile Nomnga; Pinkie 
Monyane; Admin @ Pac; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; 
lea...@hotmail.com; Malinge Plaatjie; vu...@telkomsa.net; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; Ndade Mxunya; 
mop...@pac.org.za; justice mvakali; Delano Maloney; tnta...@webmail.co.za; 
APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; Johnson Mlambo; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; sandla goqwana; Billiard Seth; 
linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Kutie Thondlana; PAC Mogale city PAC; 
isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; Vusi .Mahlangu; L Lekgwathi; 
nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; Lucas Mmola; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; PAC TSHWANE; Solly Hlubi; 
mphothobej...@yahoo.com; Gantsu; Dumisani Zwane; p...@vodamail.co.za; 
nnyq...@gmail.com; Narius Moloto; Sbusiso Xaba; Wandisile Gajana; Mapula 
Nkoana; Albert Mokoena; L.R. Mbinda; Mohlomphegi Mphahlele; Apa Pooe
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] PAC National Conference, Bloemfontein

 

Moaforika Vusie

 

You are correct on one issue, as PAC members we need a unifying inclusive 
conference, not this political gimmicks. In less than three years PAC had three 
Presidents and three Deputy Presidents as follows:

 

2012 July Butterworth Congress: Cde Letlapa Mphahlele elected as President with 
Cde Alton Mpethi as Deputy President; within 12 months after the 2012 July 
national congress

2013 August Bitchwood Conference: Cde Alton Mpethi is confirmed as Presient 
with Cde Mike Muendane as Deputy President; again within 12 months after the 
2013 August national conference

2014 September Bloemfontein Conference: Cde Luthando Mpinda is confirmed as 
President with Cde Sbusiso Xaba as Deputy President; what next within 12 months 
after the 2014 September conference?

 

 

PAC has become a national mockery, but also PAC is falling apart with many PAC 
members withdrawing from active party participation and programmes. As we speak 
the PAC no longer exist in Free State, Northwest province, Mpumalanga, Northern 
Cape and party exists in Kwa-Zulu Natal! PAC used to have structures and 
branches in these province before the QwaQwa National Congress, but ever since 
then-until today we see it happening before our very own eyes - PAC is dying 
silently.

 

Izwe lethu

Ndima

 

  

 

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 3:53 PM, vusie  wrote:


Don't be surprised to see most of those who are at forefront calling inclusive 
National Conference/Congress in December and confusing genuine Africanist not 
to attend PAC National Conference in Boemfontein being part of the same 
conference, it sad because we were mislead and denied opportunity to attend PAC 
National Confrencee

Find attached photo


Vusie Makhathini, 0826754796


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Re: [PAYCO] PAC National Conference, Bloemfontein

[Tongogara Ndima]

Moaforika Vusie

You are correct on one issue, as PAC members we need a unifying inclusive
conference, not this political gimmicks. In less than three years PAC had
three Presidents and three Deputy Presidents as follows:

2012 July Butterworth Congress: Cde Letlapa Mphahlele elected as President
with Cde Alton Mpethi as Deputy President; within 12 months after the 2012
July national congress
2013 August Bitchwood Conference: Cde Alton Mpethi is confirmed as Presient
with Cde Mike Muendane as Deputy President; again within 12 months after
the 2013 August national conference
2014 September Bloemfontein Conference: Cde Luthando Mpinda is confirmed as
President with Cde Sbusiso Xaba as Deputy President; what next within 12
months after the 2014 September conference?


PAC has become a national mockery, but also PAC is falling apart with many
PAC members withdrawing from active party participation and programmes. As
we speak the PAC no longer exist in Free State, Northwest province,
Mpumalanga, Northern Cape and party exists in Kwa-Zulu Natal! PAC used to
have structures and branches in these province before the QwaQwa National
Congress, but ever since then-until today we see it happening before our
very own eyes - PAC is dying silently.

Izwe lethu
Ndima



On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 3:53 PM, vusie  wrote:

>
> Don't be surprised to see most of those who are at forefront calling
> inclusive National Conference/Congress in December and confusing genuine
> Africanist not to attend PAC National Conference in Boemfontein being part
> of the same conference, it sad because we were mislead and denied
> opportunity to attend PAC National Confrencee
>
> Find attached photo
>
>
> Vusie Makhathini, 0826754796
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *SYNAQ Securemail*,
> and is believed to be clean.
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com
>
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Re: [PAYCO] PAC National Conference, Bloemfontein

['Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress]

MoAfrika Vusie
 
You are simply playfull and enjoy this party going up and down with no 
programme. There is nothing genuine and noble to what you are saying. You are 
behaving like someone who is idling in politics so anyone can make you say and 
do what he wishes.
  


On Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:54 PM, vusie  wrote:
  



Don't be surprised to see most of those who are at forefront calling inclusive 
National Conference/Congress in December and confusing genuine Africanist not 
to attend PAC National Conference in Boemfontein being part of the same 
conference, it sad because we were mislead and denied opportunity to attend PAC 
National Confrencee


Find attached photo


Vusie Makhathini, 0826754796
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dangerous content by SYNAQ Securemail, 
and is believed to be clean.




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Re: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

[mmbarahk]

Revolutionary Greetings,

The document eloquently articulates the historic tasks which must embody the 
revolutionary programme of our times.

Executed to the letter and spirit embodied therein, the struggle for the 
liberation of the African working class in particular and humanity in general 
will be bloody, hard and long but victorious in the end.

The revolt we speak of must be nothing like the painful insider backed 
miscarriage that culminated in 1994.

Like all revolutions, the struggle of our people must be guided, defended and 
guarded against infiltrating and renegade enermies who will try to derail and 
sabotage the machinery of revolutionary command.

I raise my hand to partake in the inevitable revolt of our people. 
Unfortunately for many within our ranks who have long ditched the motto of our 
party - serve, suffer and sacrifice remain the enduring character of any 
revolutionary movement.

I shall contribute my humble views to the complete draft programme of action.

Izwelethu!



Sent from Samsung tabletLinda Ndebele  wrote:
Cde Matome,

I wish to express my gratitude to the continous rationale manner you approach 
challenges facing our party and our revolutionary task. Indeed I agree with you 
that we have to make a choice between Revolting or conforming to the system. 
Making such a choice is critical to know who are with the masses of our people 
(revolt route) or those with the system (conforming route).

I wish to state where I stand. I stand for revolt. I know the implications of 
taking this route to me personally, professionally, financially and 
politically. I know that one stands to loose his life, be unpopular, growth 
professionally, financial difficulties and political isolation within the party 
and outside the party. I have considered all these consequences of this 
decision but despite and inspite of these I prefer to stand with the masses of 
my people. I stand for revolt and martyrdom.

I have gone through the position statement of the Programme of Action and agree 
wholeheartedly with it. I will share some of my contributions with the main 
contents of the programme of action. I strongly believe we need to embark on 
serious cadreship development if we have to succeed with mass mobilization and 
produce quality leaders to lead our people into revolutionary action.

Count me in therefore on revolt cadre.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "matome" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:26:57
To: ; 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 

Subject: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

Dear Comrades,

Find herewith attached the thrust of a revolutionary program (in development). 
It is our view that the choice facing us today is between - Revolt and Conform. 
We must choose one, and so is the PAC. The choice is indeed less about 
'factions' or 'personalities' but about 'ROCO' - Revolt or Conform.

I have made my choice and I think the time has come for all of us to make our 
choices known so that we should not waste each other 's time in case we are on 
different agenda routes. It is better to engage in inner party struggle with 
comrades with whom a foundational outlook is shared than engage in wastage. 
Time is of the essence. Let's declare our colours.

Please read the attached and let us unchain each other to pursue what we each 
believe than keep each other in a chained adulterous relationship.

We cannot hurt in perpetuity unless we are part of the perpetrators. We must 
make a call - Revolt or Conform !

Matome Mashao


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Re: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

[matome]

Cde Linda, 

Your express commitment to a choice is noted Son of the soil.

Here and elsewhere, this must be the cardinal point. Simply put, and it was 
best articulated by one comrade on this platform, are we ready to die for the 
cuase of revolution or not? In my opinion there is no better way to put it, and 
I am yet to see or study of a bloodless revolution. As we speak now, the ruling 
elite in SA is already on a massacre course. You can count Tatane, Marikana, 
and many other police killings daily. So quite overtly the question of a 
bloodless revolution is already off the picture here at 'home'.

The unfortunate thing is that we have either skated around this issue or 
allowed dubious characters to skate around it, and even tolerate that they can 
call themselves our leaders. Leaders of what ? Leaders of opportunism masked in 
sloganeering, gentlemanism, cowardice?

It is for this reason that any idea that rallies around individuals and not a 
program of action is fallacious and dodgy to say the least. It cannot be too 
much to ask, that let's set out a program on what has to be done first before 
punting some gatherings and personalities which are doomed to fail. 

It is a solid inference to be drawn that these characters are opponents of the 
revolt line. They prefer to keep us busy for as long as we don't storm the 
regime and the broad church. They gate keep for the broad church and keep us 
lulled into abstinence from burning it down. These revolt line opponents who 
are within the party buy young people with shillings which has itself deepend 
the intricacy of the problem. The sane voice saying to the young that they 
should look for a job so that they have the right to think and that if they 
can't find a job they must become an army of assault against the broad church 
is submerged by the conformists in the party.

With a program as the first basis for everything, we will know who is with us, 
atleast from an expression perspective, and who is not. I can tell you that 
your re-assessment of your role in the party is a feeling shared by many. 

We will have to keep our heads down focus on this program of action, and hope 
still that it is the PAC that will pick it up, failing which the revolution 
will find its custodians. This is because content supersedes form, agenda 
supersedes a vehicle. 

I do not wish to refer you to the Iota program which we drafted over ten years 
ago and how rhetoric parties have taken to literally everything we said and 
pre-empted. This is because it pains me that my party can engage in so much 
wastage, and the promotion of apology as its defining line.

In brief, I am saying, we need more declarations, here and elsewhere on whether 
we are on a sweet sweet line or we are on a death death program line. It is 
that simple. I am not a gifted academic nor philosopher, otherwise I would have 
put it in some nice verbiage. I am not of that make.

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:06:28 
To: ; 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 

Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

Cde Matome,

I wish to express my gratitude to the continous rationale manner you approach 
challenges facing our party and our revolutionary task. Indeed I agree with you 
that we have to make a choice between Revolting or conforming to the system. 
Making such a choice is critical to know who are with the masses of our people 
(revolt route) or those with the system (conforming route).

I wish to state where I stand. I stand for revolt. I know the implications of 
taking this route to me personally, professionally, financially and 
politically. I know that one stands to loose his life, be unpopular, growth 
professionally, financial difficulties and political isolation within the party 
and outside the party. I have considered all these consequences of this 
decision but despite and inspite of these I prefer to stand with the masses of 
my people. I stand for revolt and martyrdom.

I have gone through the position statement of the Programme of Action and agree 
wholeheartedly with it. I will share some of my contributions with the main 
contents of the programme of action. I strongly believe we need to embark on 
serious cadreship development if we have to succeed with mass mobilization and 
produce quality leaders to lead our people into revolutionary action.

Count me in therefore on revolt cadre.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "matome" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:26:57 
To: ; 'Mic

Re: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

[Linda Ndebele]

Cde Matome,

I wish to express my gratitude to the continous rationale manner you approach 
challenges facing our party and our revolutionary task. Indeed I agree with you 
that we have to make a choice between Revolting or conforming to the system. 
Making such a choice is critical to know who are with the masses of our people 
(revolt route) or those with the system (conforming route).

I wish to state where I stand. I stand for revolt. I know the implications of 
taking this route to me personally, professionally, financially and 
politically. I know that one stands to loose his life, be unpopular, growth 
professionally, financial difficulties and political isolation within the party 
and outside the party. I have considered all these consequences of this 
decision but despite and inspite of these I prefer to stand with the masses of 
my people. I stand for revolt and martyrdom.

I have gone through the position statement of the Programme of Action and agree 
wholeheartedly with it. I will share some of my contributions with the main 
contents of the programme of action. I strongly believe we need to embark on 
serious cadreship development if we have to succeed with mass mobilization and 
produce quality leaders to lead our people into revolutionary action.

Count me in therefore on revolt cadre.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "matome" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:26:57 
To: ; 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 

Subject: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

Dear Comrades,

Find herewith attached the thrust of a revolutionary program (in development). 
It is our view that the choice facing us today is between - Revolt and Conform. 
We must choose one, and so is the PAC. The choice is indeed less about 
'factions' or 'personalities' but about 'ROCO' - Revolt or Conform.

I have made my choice and I think the time has come for all of us to make our 
choices known so that we should not waste each other 's time in case we are on 
different agenda routes. It is better to engage in inner party struggle with 
comrades with whom a foundational outlook is shared than engage in wastage. 
Time is of the essence. Let's declare our colours. 

Please read the attached and let us unchain each other to pursue what we each 
believe than keep each other in a chained adulterous relationship. 

We cannot hurt in perpetuity unless we are part of the perpetrators. We must 
make a call - Revolt or Conform !

Matome Mashao


Sent from my BlackBerry®

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Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[matome]

Comrade Gift and Others,

I hope you are well and good my friend.

I must commend you for mustering sufficient courage to make the point about the 
sinking ship that we are. You have indeed taken it to a higher level in terms 
of the chosen method of cleansing the party. Whether this method is right or 
not is another matter. Your level of impatience with mediocrity is commendable. 
It is my wish that we all can assume intolerance against incapacity, mediocrity 
and outright counter-revolution. It is the lack of this intolerance which 
threatens the party. If we all assume indignation against the destruction of 
what is left of the PAC, we may be able to save it from total closure.

The complexity lies here though: all these groups accuse each other of deviant 
agendas. So this begs the question: how deep is the damage on the party, and 
what precisely will it take to restore some respectable organisation. The jury 
is out on this one. Some argue that it is totally adulterated right from the 
centre, with divisions and mediocrity impacting on the young and old, 
themselves playing a part in that mediocrity as well. Others, hold a near 
religious view that somehow by some act the party will resuscitate.

Over the years, in view of all of these, the party has developed a self-eating 
culture. The culture of quarels not for revolution but for side-shows. This has 
blinded many of us from even seeing the good in each other.

It also interests me that we often talk of how opportunistic the charterists 
are. But equally how many amongst us share this opportunism with the 
charterists? Is it really true that a majority of us are not opportunistic and 
non-charterist minded ? We must differentiate the lack of exposure to 
opportunism from our ability to withstand it. Is it not true that there are 
many amongst us who given a chance would do just what the charterists are 
doing? So the reality may also just be the fact that our members are 'denied' a 
chance for opportunism; that if it were offered to them they will excel in it 
perhaps even better than the charterists themselves.

These questions have kept me thinking long and hard. It is the same question 
that many here have asked. And rightly they fear that they too like a 
generation following Sobukwe 's, will get old, and old they are becoming, into 
irrelevance, having denied themselves a chance for revolutionary participation. 
How much of a disabler is the PAC in its current form.

I have often argued that the agenda must supersede the vehicle. Yes, it never 
should be a lightly arrived at position to conclude that a vehicle is a wastage 
but it is a consideration we must brave and face.

The stories of hurt and disappointment are many including how we elevate 
mediocrity and shun home talent. 

I and others have made a call for a focus on a program of action. I am having 
to handle my own exploding level of irritation at those pushing for conferences 
and elections of individuals who neither have a program of action nor capacity. 
I am up to here !!! 

For my sanity I will keep to the work on the program of action, and hope it is 
the PAC that will drive some of the ideas we share in the document.

Izwe Lethu !

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:05:02 
To: 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 

Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

Izwe lethu 

 

Thanks Bra Mike, “Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and 
you shall be a strong Party”

 

Izwe lethu

Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi

I Choose no-one, however all PAC members as comrades in struggle for the 
African Emancipation!

 

From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] 
Sent: 11 September 2014 10:13 PM
To: 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 'Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi'
Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; 
paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 
znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; 
moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; 
digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; 
ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; 
lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; 
mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; 
tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; 
river.mla...@telkom

Re: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC

[matome]

Comrade Gift and Others,

I hope you are well and good my friend.

I must commend you for mustering sufficient courage to make the point about the 
sinking ship that we are. You have indeed taken it to a higher level in terms 
of the chosen method of cleansing the party. Whether this method is right or 
not is another matter. Your level of impatience with mediocrity is commendable. 
It is my wish that we all can assume intolerance against incapacity, mediocrity 
and outright counter-revolution. It is the lack of this intolerance which 
threatens the party. If we all assume indignation against the destruction of 
what is left of the PAC, we may be able to save it from total closure.

The complexity lies here though: all these groups accuse each other of deviant 
agendas. So this begs the question: how deep is the damage on the party, and 
what precisely will it take to restore some respectable organisation. The jury 
is out on this one. Some argue that it is totally adulterated right from the 
centre, with divisions and mediocrity impacting on the young and old, 
themselves playing a part in that mediocrity as well. Others, hold a near 
religious view that somehow by some act the party will resuscitate.

Over the years, in view of all of these, the party has developed a self-eating 
culture. The culture of quarels not for revolution but for side-shows. This has 
blinded many of us from even seeing the good in each other.

It also interests me that we often talk of how opportunistic the charterists 
are. But equally how many amongst us share this opportunism with the 
charterists? Is it really true that a majority of us are not opportunistic and 
non-charterist minded ? We must differentiate the lack of exposure to 
opportunism from our ability to withstand it. Is it not true that there are 
many amongst us who given a chance would do just what the charterists are 
doing? So the reality may also just be the fact that our members are 'denied' a 
chance for opportunism; that if it were offered to them they will excel in it 
perhaps even better than the charterists themselves.

These questions have kept me thinking long and hard. It is the same question 
that many here have asked. And rightly they fear that they too like a 
generation following Sobukwe 's, will get old, and old they are becoming, into 
irrelevance, having denied themselves a chance for revolutionary participation. 
How much of a disabler is the PAC in its current form.

I have often argued that the agenda must supersede the vehicle. Yes, it never 
should be a lightly arrived at position to conclude that a vehicle is a wastage 
but it is a consideration we must brave and face.

The stories of hurt and disappointment are many including how we elevate 
mediocrity and shun home talent. 

I and others have made a call for a focus on a program of action. I am having 
to handle my own exploding level of irritation at those pushing for conferences 
and elections of individuals who neither have a program of action nor capacity. 
I am up to here !!! 

For my sanity I will keep to the work on the program of action, and hope it is 
the PAC that will drive some of the ideas we share in the document.

Izwe Lethu !

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 14:28:31 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC

Comrade Gift

My first input on this discussion was that to rescue PAC from current maximum 
infiltration is to take extraordinary actions unfortunately at a human cost. I 
agree with you totally in your sentiments. PAC has been hijacked from us at gun 
point. We cannot get it back to us without a bitter fight. 

 --
Sent from my Nokia phone

--Original message--
From: 'gift fuzane' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress 
To: 
Date: Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:21:17 PM GMT+0100
Subject: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC


This daily dialogues PAC members are busy with is not working. If my mind serve 
me well, this have been going on since from 80's. PAC is full of agents. Infact 
should I rather say PAC is an agent organization. Every leaders elected turns 
to work against the organization. 

Conference seems to fail in electing leaders cause these agents leaders are 
sponsored. The only solution to this problem we are facing is a coup. We retake 
PAC from people that thinks they own it. Appoint leaders that we think can 
unite the organization. We give them plan of action. Any one that is against 
our actions or takes us to courts will b assassinated. In order for us to fix 
PAC we need to take radical actions, period. 

Let us fix the organization once and for all.

United PAC
Zandisile aka Gift Fuzane 

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Re: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC

[chargein461]

Comrades,

Former US President, John F Kennedy rightly said, "Those who make nonviolent 
revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" . His powerful 
advice was not taken serious by his successors up to Obama. In effect, they 
defied him. When Gaddafi and Assad in Libya and Syria, respectively, ask for 
dialogue, US led imperialism looked aside and bombed them. 

The current international politics is biased to interests of US-led 
imperialism. Typical example are: 
1. Nuclear crisis in Iran and North Korea. India, Israel and Pakistan  test 
their and US is just winking,

2. Iraq invaded Kuiwait and US retariated and "liberated" Kuwait. Israel bombed 
Gaza while US was busy winking,  

3. Crimea called for a referendum to break from Ukraine and condomned by US led 
imperiialism. Tommorrow Scoland goes for referundum to break from UK. America 
is again winkng,

4. US-led imperialism condomns Russia for supporting pro Russian rebels in 
Ukraine when same imperialists are supporting militarily Ukraine government and 
rebels in Syria in broad daylight. The same ISIS and Al Qaeda are product of US 
support.

5. The list is endless.   

South Africa must take the advice seriously. If nonviolent revolution cannot 
resolved the National Question (Land and Economic Question), violent revolution 
is inveitable in SA. Malema knows this fact and is exploiting it for his own 
agenda. Our country cannot afford to follow suite of what is happening 
worldwide after our bad experience with Apartheid regime's destruction in our 
lifetime. It doesnt whether is ANC government in power, it's our government. 
When crisis erupts, African people will have no option but to stand up in great 
numbers and join the revolutionary camp as they did to Apartheid, just like in 
Eastern Ukraine.  What happened in Palstine, Syria, Ukraine, Iraq and Libya 
will be like a picnic compared to SA crisis. Spontaniety of the masses in 
marakana, SANDF strike, services delivery protests, etc sent clear signals to 
all serious-minded leaders. Associated militancy says it all. Killing PAC will 
not stop the revolution path SA must take. 

SA government must also be clear where it stands in international politics,  
either with or against US-led imperialism. Stop being dubious! Fence-sitters 
are always on the line of cross fire. Third World War is on the cards under 
current developments in the world. Remember: when two elephants fight (US & 
Russia), it is the grass that suffers most. 

Izwe Lethu!   

When

 --
Sent from my Nokia phone

--Original message--
From: 'gift fuzane' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress 
To: 
Date: Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:21:17 PM GMT+0100
Subject: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC


This daily dialogues PAC members are busy with is not working. If my mind serve 
me well, this have been going on since from 80's. PAC is full of agents. Infact 
should I rather say PAC is an agent organization. Every leaders elected turns 
to work against the organization. 

Conference seems to fail in electing leaders cause these agents leaders are 
sponsored. The only solution to this problem we are facing is a coup. We retake 
PAC from people that thinks they own it. Appoint leaders that we think can 
unite the organization. We give them plan of action. Any one that is against 
our actions or takes us to courts will b assassinated. In order for us to fix 
PAC we need to take radical actions, period. 

Let us fix the organization once and for all.

United PAC
Zandisile aka Gift Fuzane 

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RE: [PAYCO] Our generation failed by a generation that has made its mark!

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

r make its 
blunders. (Leadership of the party is kept away by those of the generation that 
has made its mark).
3. Our generation stands to go down in history as the most useless generation 
that never made a mark in the struggle to liberate our people.

We concluded that we will not allow this to continue. We want to play our 
historic duty in the liberation struggle of our people and continent. We will 
do this within the PAC but if PAC cannot assist us to do so we will go out and 
make our mark elsewhere.

We are driven by a desire to make our mark in history.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

  _  

From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi"  

Sender: payco@googlegroups.com 

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:05:02 +0200

To: 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'

ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com 

Cc: ; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
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; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 


Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

 

Izwe lethu 

 

Thanks Bra Mike, “Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and 
you shall be a strong Party”

 

Izwe lethu

Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi

I Choose no-one, however all PAC members as comrades in struggle for the 
African Emancipation!

 

From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] 
Sent: 11 September 2014 10:13 PM
To: 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 'Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi'
Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; 
paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 
znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; 
moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; 
digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; 
ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; 
lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; 
mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; 
tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; 
river.mla...@telkomsa.net; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; 
billiard.s...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 
kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; 
isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; vemahla...@gmail.com; 
0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; 
payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; 
hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; 
dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; 
sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; 
mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

 

There is one stubborn truth that most people do not realise and it is this:

 

“You cannot give anybody something that you do not have. You must have it 
first. If you do not have love, you can never give love to anybody. Likewise, 
when you give a positive a label ( description or attribute) to someone else, 
it means you also possess that attribute. When you attribute or ascribe a 
certain negative trait, attribute, quality or tendency to another person, you 
do that because you possess that trait, attribute, quality or tendency 
yourself, otherwise how would you recognise it in others?”

 

Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a 
strong Party.

 

Izwe lethu.

 

 

Ngila Muendane.

 

From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:15 PM
To: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; 
m...@soultalk.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; 
tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; 
i...@bataufc.com; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; 
bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; 
phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; 
ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; lea...@hotmail.com; 
malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; 
ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; mop...@pac.org.za; 
mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; tnta...@webmail.co.za; 
aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; 
linda.ndeb...

Re: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC

[chargein461]

The enemy is prepared even to bomb genuine PAC members who will win the fight 
at the end group with Hamas, Zanu-PF, ISIS, etc. Nato may here already to deal 
with genuine PAC members. But, the kind of action 

 --
Sent from my Nokia phone

--Original message--
From: 'gift fuzane' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress 
To: 
Date: Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:21:17 PM GMT+0100
Subject: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC


This daily dialogues PAC members are busy with is not working. If my mind serve 
me well, this have been going on since from 80's. PAC is full of agents. Infact 
should I rather say PAC is an agent organization. Every leaders elected turns 
to work against the organization. 

Conference seems to fail in electing leaders cause these agents leaders are 
sponsored. The only solution to this problem we are facing is a coup. We retake 
PAC from people that thinks they own it. Appoint leaders that we think can 
unite the organization. We give them plan of action. Any one that is against 
our actions or takes us to courts will b assassinated. In order for us to fix 
PAC we need to take radical actions, period. 

Let us fix the organization once and for all.

United PAC
Zandisile aka Gift Fuzane 

-- 
-- 
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Re: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC

[chargein461]

Comrade Gift

My first input on this discussion was that to rescue PAC from current maximum 
infiltration is to take extraordinary actions unfortunately at a human cost. I 
agree with you totally in your sentiments. PAC has been hijacked from us at gun 
point. We cannot get it back to us without a bitter fight. 

 --
Sent from my Nokia phone

--Original message--
From: 'gift fuzane' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress 
To: 
Date: Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:21:17 PM GMT+0100
Subject: [PAYCO] coup is the only solution for PAC


This daily dialogues PAC members are busy with is not working. If my mind serve 
me well, this have been going on since from 80's. PAC is full of agents. Infact 
should I rather say PAC is an agent organization. Every leaders elected turns 
to work against the organization. 

Conference seems to fail in electing leaders cause these agents leaders are 
sponsored. The only solution to this problem we are facing is a coup. We retake 
PAC from people that thinks they own it. Appoint leaders that we think can 
unite the organization. We give them plan of action. Any one that is against 
our actions or takes us to courts will b assassinated. In order for us to fix 
PAC we need to take radical actions, period. 

Let us fix the organization once and for all.

United PAC
Zandisile aka Gift Fuzane 

-- 
-- 
Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com

Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com

You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco

Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com

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RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Izwe lethu 

 

Thanks Bra Mike, “Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and 
you shall be a strong Party”

 

Izwe lethu

Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi

I Choose no-one, however all PAC members as comrades in struggle for the 
African Emancipation!

 

From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] 
Sent: 11 September 2014 10:13 PM
To: 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 'Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi'
Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; 
paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 
znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; 
moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; 
digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; 
ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; 
lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; 
mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; 
tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; 
river.mla...@telkomsa.net; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; 
billiard.s...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 
kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; 
isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; vemahla...@gmail.com; 
0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; 
payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; 
hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; 
dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; 
sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; 
mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

 

There is one stubborn truth that most people do not realise and it is this:

 

“You cannot give anybody something that you do not have. You must have it 
first. If you do not have love, you can never give love to anybody. Likewise, 
when you give a positive a label ( description or attribute) to someone else, 
it means you also possess that attribute. When you attribute or ascribe a 
certain negative trait, attribute, quality or tendency to another person, you 
do that because you possess that trait, attribute, quality or tendency 
yourself, otherwise how would you recognise it in others?”

 

Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a 
strong Party.

 

Izwe lethu.

 

 

Ngila Muendane.

 

From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:15 PM
To: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; 
m...@soultalk.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; 
tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; 
i...@bataufc.com; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; 
bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; 
phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; 
ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; lea...@hotmail.com; 
malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; 
ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; mop...@pac.org.za; 
mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; tnta...@webmail.co.za; 
aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; 
linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; 
pacmogalec...@gmail.com; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; 
vemahla...@gmail.com; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; 
lucasmmol...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 
sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; 
pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; 
mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; 
nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; 
mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; 
mphah...@eskom.co.za
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

 

M'Afrika Nkrumah please poqo I am begging you, let us leave this matter because 
it adds no value to the future of the PAC. 

FIHLA

On 11 Sep 2014 6:59 PM, "Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI"  wrote:

Conrade Fihla

You are deliberately distorting everything I wrote and argued. It is evident 
you are personalising issues and also driving a character assasination. You 
have dismally failed to prove your

RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI]

 person/individual. The issue is what has being done by  APLAMVA as a
>> structure/ component structures in regards to the incarcerated APLA
>> Comrades and this goes to an extent of questioning the political role and
>> purpose of APLAMVA in the context of PAC’s  Aims and Objective. If the two
>> parallel existing APLAMVA have organisational plans and strategies, then
>> let them be shared with PAC branches and members to dismiss and refute the
>> following statement   "we have imprisoned former APLA combatants,  no
>> action is taken to demand the release of incarcerated APLA combatants",
>> empirically disapprove this statement you consider as “unfounded sweeping
>> statements based on conjecture”.
>>
>>
>>
>> Remember, I sat at the NEC led by Cde Mogoba prior Tompi Seleke in 2000
>> and even after Tompi Seleke, I also served in the NEC of under Cde Pheko
>> including the 2006 – until the Decree NEC of Cde Letlapa, there has been no
>> programme nor report presented by APLAMVA in regards to a campaign
>> demanding the release of imprisoned APLA comrades. We know of individual
>> PAC Comrades such M’Afrika Sombu and M’Afrika Pheko who had always made
>> efforts and rallied various NECs and component structures and members of
>> PAC in regard to the plight of imprisoned APLA comrades. Hence the argument
>> "None of the two existing APLAMVA NEC s have been seen in action demanding
>> the immediate  release of these comrades. But today, APLAMVA NEC comrades
>> have a moral ground to point finger and identify failures of the PAC NEC
>> members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrites". To make
>> things worse, APLA is split into two feuding comrades, the questions is
>> does this APLAMVA split contribute or impact in the PAC!
>>
>>
>>
>> Do not be personal when addressing this issues, let’s try to be objective
>> and constructive Comrade Fihla! Personalising issues commonly defeats a
>> debate and inquisition to have a better understanding. Lastly, I do accept
>> your invite and as long as it’s not a piecemeal approach however a Plan of
>> Action that seeks to Demand the Release Imprisoned APLA Fighters!
>>
>>
>>
>> Shango lashu
>>
>> Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* mrfihla08 [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* 11 September 2014 09:26 AM
>> *To:* Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; payco@googlegroups.com
>> *Cc:* nnyq...@gmail.com; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com;
>> mvakalijust...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com;
>> mphah...@eskom.co.za; tnta...@webmail.co.za; dud...@webmail.co.za;
>> tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com;
>> takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za;
>> mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; znyam...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com;
>> celenjabulo...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; bulanng...@gmail.com;
>> m...@soultalk.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za;
>> lucasmmol...@gmail.com; lea...@hotmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com;
>> po...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; mbind...@gmail.com;
>> pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org;
>> mapulankoan...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dumisani...@gmail.com;
>> goqwana.san...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com;
>> jntab...@gmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com;
>> mop...@pac.org.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za;
>> moshemahlom...@gmail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net;
>> mphothobej...@yahoo.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za;
>> 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com;
>> linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; bennet_j...@yahoo.com;
>> paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za;
>> isaa...@diplomat-global.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com;
>> phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; river.mla...@telkomsa.net;
>> hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za;
>> 'APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE'; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; 'Vusi Mahlangu'
>> *Subject:* RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
>>
>>
>>
>> M'Afrika Nkrumah, with due respect son of the soil, I would not like us to
>> engage in rhetoric. All I was responding to are your unfounded sweeping
>> statements based on conjecture. You know nothing or very little about what
>> is happening concerning our comrades in prison. Hence I am inviting you to
>> join me at your earliest convince on a visit to Boksburg prison.To quote
>> wh

Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Tongogara Ndima]

MoAforika Mvakali

Izwe lethu,



 PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said that if we go
to a conference divided, we shall come out of it even more divided, as
captured and shared by Cde Muendane. We see no logic attend the
Bloemfontein 2014 Conference disunited!



However, this is proposed way-forward!



   1.   The proposal to form a mediation team is worth consideration;
   2.Mediation team should develop a party unification strategy and
   campaign which should entail:-

 a. The July 2012 Butterworth Congress elected NEC should
reconstitute through mediation team;
b.Mediation team should furthermore engage PAC comrades outside due
suspensions, expulsions , disillusioned etc
c.Re-establish PAC Head office and re-organise party administration;
d.The July 2012 Butterworth  Congress elected NEC should account to PAC
branches and members;
e.All parallel structures from regions to provincial structures
including APLAMVA and PAYCO should be dissolved;
f. Inclusive structures should be formed from regions to provincial;
g.Constitutional structures mainly branches should be organised;
h.Mediation team should furthermore oversee convening an inclusive
national conference and national congress of PAC;
i.  Thus inclusive conference should be in reality inclusive and
unifying based on principles and programme of action!

Any Comments
Ndima

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi <
nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Shango lashu M’Afrika
>
>
>
> PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, *Birchwood
> 2013 National Conference* organised by the same NEC comrades organising
> the *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference*, *has dismally failed to
> unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a
> unity-and-revolutionary path*. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has
> deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a
> manner never seen in the history of the PAC, *Bloemfontein 2014 National
> Conference* will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an
> untenable organisational state.
>
>
>
> Boycott and denounce *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! *
>
> *Boycott!*
>
>
>
> *Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members!*
>
> * Unite!*
>
>
>
> *Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference!*
>
> *Forward *
>
>
>
> Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all
> of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and
> Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela when he said One of the greatest
> leaders of this organisation, Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said
> that if we go to a conference divided, we shall come out of it even more
> divided. To defeat factionalism and divisions, It is my strongest believe
> that PAC branches and members must achieve principled unity.
>
>
>
> And those former PAC members who left PAC to form PAM must return to the
> PAC, those PAC members who were suspended should also return to the PAC; We
> must jointly and equally wage the struggle to reclaim-and –to- place PAC on
> a revolutionary socialist path on a Pan African Scope to overthrow
> capitalism and white supremacy.
>
>
>
> Shango lashu
>
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
>
> 074 922 6361
>
> *From:* Mbuyiselo Kantso [mailto:mbuyigan...@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* 10 September 2014 03:28 PM
> *To:* payco@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* Ndade Mxunya; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; Kutie Thondlana;
> sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za;
> Admin @ Pac; wgaj...@gmail.com; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com;
> river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za;
> takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; Xola Tyamzashe;
> tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com;
> lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za;
> paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com;
> pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com;
> Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; Sbusiso Xaba;
> dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org;
> goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com;
> joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi;
> lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com;
> bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com;
> ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com;
> m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; justice mvakali;
> mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com;
> mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za;
> moshemahlom...@gmail.com; mon

Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Tongogara Ndima]

Comrade Masoga

Do not display arrogance if you are serious about unity in the PAC, the
statement you made that is "We are continuing Son of Soil with or without
those who differ with us.". It is a sign of arrogance and  it further
create us and them. No-one bedevilled you when you were organising a
National Caucus, then respect other comrades views and proposals.

Izwe lethu
Ndima

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM,  wrote:

>
> Good Morning M'Afrika Mashilo
>
> Clearly you have made your decision to Boycott the conference so you are
> within your Rights to do so as much as you are entitled to your opinion.
>
> Please let's respect decision of those who are prepared to make efforts to
> re - build the PAC. We all agree that the PAC must Unite and come with a
> programme that will change the Status Quo and challenge the System on Pan
> Africanist perspective.
>
> I am not sure if your Branch or you as an individual is in good standing
> or is the one that you refer to when you make a mention of Unity of those
> who left PAC and those of PAM which you seem passionate about. PAM is a
> registered Political Party and is a Legal Persona and should not be a
> determining Factor when we are suppose to hold a Conference to redirect the
> PAC, as we move and on, we will differ on methods of how to take the PAC
> forward. Those who left PAC did so Voluntarily and I know a few that are
> back in the PAC and are active.
>
> Comrade Ray I am personally not pleased with your BOYCOTT CONFERENCE
> Campaign, it is growing tension and promote dis unity. You are
> contradicting yourself by condemning those who differ with you, failing to
> convince them does not necessarily mean you have to use knuckle dusters
> "Boycott Conference".
>
> We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us.
> Caucus 13/09/14 then Conference in Bloemfontein 27-28/09/14.
>
> IAfrika
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> --
> *From: * "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
> *Sender: * payco@googlegroups.com
> *Date: *Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:25:52 +0200
> *To: *'Mbuyiselo Kantso'; 
> *ReplyTo: * payco@googlegroups.com
> *Cc: *'Ndade Mxunya'; 'Kutie Thondlana'<
> kutie.thondl...@gmail.com>; ; 'mrfihla08'<
> mrfihl...@gmail.com>; ; 'Admin @ Pac'<
> ad...@pac.org.za>; ; 'eddie mfulwane'<
> rammymfulw...@gmail.com>; ; <
> river.mla...@telkomsa.net>; ; <
> takalaniligeg...@gmail.com>; ; 'Xola Tyamzashe'<
> tyamza...@yahoo.com>; ; <
> isaa...@diplomat-global.com>; ; ; <
> phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com>; ; <
> paccapeme...@webmail.co.za>; ; <
> pactshwanereg...@gmail.com>; ; <
> pac.nc...@gmail.com>; 'Phumzile Nomnga'; <
> pacaza...@webmail.co.za>; ; 'Sbusiso Xaba'<
> sbusiso.x...@gmail.com>; ; ;
> ; ; <
> hlubi.so...@gmail.com>; ; ;
> 'L Lekgwathi'<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; <
> znyam...@gmail.com>; ; ; <
> bennet_j...@yahoo.com>; ; <
> ndhlo...@pac.org.za>; 'Nakaphala Bauba'; <
> nnyq...@gmail.com>; ; ;
> 'justice mvakali'; ; <
> mphah...@eskom.co.za>; ; <
> mphothobej...@yahoo.com>; ; <
> moshemahlom...@gmail.com>; ; ;
> ; ; ; <
> vu...@telkomsa.net>; 
> *Subject: *RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
>
> Shango lashu M’Afrika
>
>
>
> PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, *Birchwood
> 2013 National Conference* organised by the same NEC comrades organising
> the *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference*, *has dismally failed to
> unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a
> unity-and-revolutionary path*. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has
> deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a
> manner never seen in the history of the PAC, *Bloemfontein 2014 National
> Conference* will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an
> untenable organisational state.
>
>
>
> Boycott and denounce *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! *
>
> *Boycott!*
>
>
>
> *Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members!*
>
> * Unite!*
>
>
>
> *Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference!*
>
> *Forward *
>
>
>
> Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all
> of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and
> Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela when he said One of the greatest
> leaders of this organisation, Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said
> that if we go