2, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Hi list...
Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I
definitely need my lines to be straight (or not aliased), I would prefer
[expr] to be under BSD, like Pd-Vanilla is...
What does the license have to do
From: Olivier B lamouraupeu...@gmail.com
To: i go bananas hard@gmail.com
Cc: PD-List pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Hi list...
Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I
definitely need my lines
From: Olivier B lamouraupeu...@gmail.com
To: i go bananas hard@gmail.com
Cc: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com; PD-List pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
2011/11/4 i go bananas hard@gmail.com
apple
Le 2011-11-04 à 16:28:00, i go bananas a écrit :
7.1 Delivery of Freely Available Licensed Applications via the App
Store; Certificates If Your Application qualifies as a Licensed
Application, it is eligible for delivery to end-users via the App Store
by Apple and/or an Apple Subsidiary.
Le 2011-11-04 à 07:16:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
I'll put up $200 for a 3-clause-BSD-licensed [expr] family replacement
where 3 / 2 = 1.5
3/2 = 1.5 ?
Is that another « private joke » ?
Olivier a écrit :
Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I
definitely need my
- Original Message -
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Olivier B lamouraupeu...@gmail.com; i go bananas hard@gmail.com;
PD-List pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Le
From: Olivier B lamouraupeu...@gmail.com
To: i go bananas hard@gmail.com
Cc: PD-List pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Hi list...
Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I
2011/11/2 Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
From: Olivier B lamouraupeu...@gmail.com
To: i go bananas hard@gmail.com
Cc: PD-List pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Hi list...
Just to say
, 2011 11:04 AM
*Subject:* Re: [PD] expr alternative
i just got a reply and they are reviewing my question, so hopefully we
can find out if they currently allow LGPL.
however, even if the do, i PERSONALLY still think a BSD [expr] would be
much better.
i know there were a lot of heated
From: Olivier B lamouraupeu...@gmail.com
To: i go bananas hard@gmail.com
Cc: PD-List pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Hi list...
Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I
i just called a couple of apple numbers. first one had me on hold for 10
minutes so i gave up, 2nd one was useless.
BUT third one was a rather helpful lady whose name i now have and she has
issued me a 'case number' so my question is now listed in their system at
least, so hopefully i can get
Le 2011-10-31 à 23:49:00, i go bananas a écrit :
Also, i have already contacted a friend who works for a company making
high profile iOS applications, and from what he is saying LGPL is OK.
it seems the main problem with plain GPL is that apple doesn't want to
release their own surrounding
Another side of it is that the GPL and LGPL do not allow additional
restrictions to be placed on the code. The VLC and GNU Go complaints as I
understood them were specifically about the Apple App Store placing additional
restrictions on the code. So that would affect LGPL and GPL alike. An
i just got a reply and they are reviewing my question, so hopefully we can
find out if they currently allow LGPL.
however, even if the do, i PERSONALLY still think a BSD [expr] would be
much better.
i know there were a lot of heated comments in this thread defending GPL,
but if the author of the
also, i think i am going to get slapped around the face again for this,
but how impossible would it be to get IRCAM to grant a BSD license for the
certain section of code used in [expr] ?
i know people here are going to disagree, and yes, i can see your point,
but look at this:
jMax is a new
bananas hard@gmail.com
To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
Cc: PD-List pd-list@iem.at; Georg Bosch k...@stillavailable.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
i just got a reply and they are reviewing my question, so hopefully we can
find out
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2011 11:04 AM
*Subject:* Re: [PD] expr alternative
i just got a reply and they are reviewing my question, so hopefully we can
find out if they currently allow LGPL.
however, even if the do, i PERSONALLY still think a BSD [expr] would be
much better.
i know
Am 24.10.2011 um 11:55 schrieb Andy Farnell:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:59 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a
carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience?
I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it
Sorry about the South Park bit Georg,
I was trying to be too clever and do a snotty thing, making
a scathing wise-guy commentary on a company and community,
while not naming any names.
As a believer in plain communication I should have the
courage to just come out and say it:
Apple are a
On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 17:04 -0200, Ricardo Fabbri wrote:
1) if you want someone to change their licensing, at least be willing
to offer them some cash. basically, you buy the new licensing. this
part is not free! I would go as far as saying it's unpolite to ask to
switch a license without
oh FFS.
can all the politcal activists just leave this thread alone now?
aren't you all meant to be occupying wall street anyway?
as Max already pointed out, Shadrokh himself wanted expr to be BSD from the
start, so all the political/moral/religious discussions about GPL and blah
blah blah,
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:52:26 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
oh FFS.
This is for _your_ sake.
Dismissing the implications of the coversation you started
seems a little ungrateful, if you don't mind me saying so.
--
Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk
if people want to talk politics in a thread started by a person with
bananas in their name, then what do they expect?
get back to occupying wall street you hippies!
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:00:55 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
if people want to talk politics in a thread started by a person with
bananas in their name, then what do they expect?
LOL. Well there you go. Welcome to the fruit basket.
get back to occupying wall street you
well, i have taken the first step towards harrassing apple.
this is the next page i was sent to after i sent the mail:
Thank You
Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
If you do not receive a response from an Apple employee, we regret that we
are unable to process your request. Please
I know it takes a fair amount of faith, but you could try and contact Steve
Jobs directly.
Pierre
2011/10/27 i go bananas hard@gmail.com
well, i have taken the first step towards harrassing apple.
this is the next page i was sent to after i sent the mail:
Thank You
Thank you for
Emailing is a good start. A better way to get their attention is to
file a bug report.
.hc
On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:15 AM, i go bananas wrote:
well, i have taken the first step towards harrassing apple.
this is the next page i was sent to after i sent the mail:
Thank You
Thank you for
- Original Message -
From: Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com
To: Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 08:51:23AM +0800, Simon Wise wrote:
On 26/10/11 01:29
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:53:30 -0700 (PDT)
Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:
little documentation or support whatsoever-- not to mention hardware like
Apple's
which gets periodic firmware updates specifically to break compatibility with
anything other than Itunes.
This is what I
Am 26.10.2011 um 05:28 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I
understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible with the
On Oct 26, 2011, at 1:20 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 08:51:23AM +0800, Simon Wise wrote:
On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from
what I
understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store
My 2c:
1) if you want someone to change their licensing, at least be willing
to offer them some cash. basically, you buy the new licensing. this
part is not free! I would go as far as saying it's unpolite to ask to
switch a license without offering money.
2) If you write a clone, be original
Le 2011-10-26 à 17:04:00, Ricardo Fabbri a écrit :
3) Colloquy IRC chat client is an example of a GPL software that has a
BSD core and mobile version. Not sure if that's because the authors are
the copyright holders so they can switch licensing as they please.
It looks fairly clear that this
Le 2011-10-24 à 20:27:00, Andy Farnell a écrit :
It's not a discouragement to Matt to contact the author,
Who is Matt ?
__
| Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal,
i am. i probably shouldn't mess round with my mail settings so much.
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Update: Shahrokh just wrote me that he has asked IRCAM if they would be okay
with releasing the expr code under LGPL.
Quote:
“I got news from IRCAM that they are willing to release expr code on LGPL. Will
that solve the current licensing problems? Max, could you communicate to the
list and let
Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit :
So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of GPL?
What does that mean for things like the Apple App Store?
In the end I'm not sure anymore that LGPL would be fine, even though it
does look like Apple ships with LGPL libs. (Though
On Oct 25, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit :
So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of
GPL? What does that mean for things like the Apple App Store?
In the end I'm not sure anymore that LGPL would be fine, even though
Am 25.10.2011 um 19:10 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
On Oct 25, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit :
So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of GPL? What
does that mean for things like the Apple App Store?
In the end
On Oct 25, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Max wrote:
Am 25.10.2011 um 19:10 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
On Oct 25, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit :
So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of
GPL? What does that mean for things
- Original Message -
From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
To: Max abonneme...@revolwear.com
Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at; Shahrokh Yadegari s...@ucsd.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Oct 25, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Max wrote
Hey Martin,
I haven't heard that before. Do you have any references on the App
Store being compatible with the LGPL? I found this write-up on the
topic, it makes sense to me, and outlines basically how the App Store
is incompatible with the FSF copyleft idea, which is definitely
Le 2011-10-25 à 10:45:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
2) all the expr objects have a Max-centric view of numbers that clashes
with Pd's everything-is-a-float philosophy. (If you don't understand
what I mean, matju has written about it on the list and I've also
documented it in the revised PDDP
: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Le 2011-10-25 à 10:45:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
2) all the expr objects have a Max-centric view of numbers that clashes
with Pd's everything-is-a-float philosophy. (If you don't
understand what I mean, matju has written about it on the list and I've also
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Le 2011-10-25 à 10:45:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
2) all the expr objects have a Max-centric view of numbers that
clashes
with Pd's everything-is-a-float philosophy. (If you don't
understand what I mean, matju has
Le 2011-10-25 à 12:38:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
It's worth noting that the current [expr] is both Max-centric--
because numbers written as integers imply integer math-- and
incompatible with Max-- because in object boxes Pd strips the decimal
from 1. which is a common idiom in Max to
: Re: [PD] expr alternative
Le 2011-10-25 à 12:38:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
It's worth noting that the current [expr] is both
Max-centric-- because numbers written as integers imply integer
math-- and incompatible with Max-- because in object boxes Pd strips the
decimal
from 1
Le 2011-10-25 à 14:02:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
Right, but that punishes the Pd users by making them use Max notation to
force floating point math, and it confuses the Max users coming to (or
porting patches to) Pd, who learn Pd's float-centrism then are forced to
relearn some bizarro
On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I
understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible with the GPL and
LGPL is another much better solution since it will work for all GPL and LGPL
software.
this is
- Original Message -
From: Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com
To: pd-list@iem.at
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative
On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from
On 26/10/11 09:53, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
It's worse than that-- they want to lock their customers into using their
hardware
only in the ways they intend. Ever tried syncing an Ipad with a free software
operating system?
indeed it is, but I was trying to focus on the open source issue as
On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from
what I
understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible with
the GPL and
LGPL is another much better solution since
Le 2011-10-26 à 10:32:00, Simon Wise a écrit :
Their corporate strategy regarding creating and maintaining a monopoly
on as many technologies as they can, and taking a percentage of every
transaction within those monopoly platforms is very sensible and
reasonable way to maximise profits if
Le 2011-10-25 à 23:28:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
They also contribute to gcc, which is GPL software, and its their main
compiler for both Mac OS X and iOS. Then came iOS, and they got crazy.
In XCode 4.2, they removed the option named just «GCC», leaving the choice
between «GCC
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 08:51:23AM +0800, Simon Wise wrote:
On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I
understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible with the GPL and
LGPL is another much better
On 23/10/2011 19:54, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Oct 23, 2011, at 1:45 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Le 2011-10-24 à 02:27:00, i go bananas a écrit :
how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need
to be GPL licensed?
[...]
I think the Apple App Store conflicts
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to
get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too??
What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a
carefully made moral decision
What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a
carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience?
I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it really be that bad?
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.ukwrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011
The GPL has absolutely no restrictions on commerce. You are free to sell
any GPL software however you see fit. But you must give the source code to
everyone you give the software to.
sorry hans, i should have been clearer on that. i meant 'closed source
commercial application'.
out of
LGPL seems ok on iphone, legally at least.
http://multinc.com/2009/08/24/compatibility-between-the-iphone-app-store-and-the-lgpl/
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:59 PM, i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
The GPL has absolutely no restrictions on commerce. You are free to sell
any GPL
i go bananas wrote:
out of interest, what's the deal with pd being used as the audio engine for
computer games, like Spore, or whatever? They don't make the source code
available, do they? Wouldn't those applications also have to avoid [expr] ?
To some extend, that's a point for GPLv3 :
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:59 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a
carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience?
I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it really be that bad?
Sure. I can only tell you
hi andy - of course i'd be very willing to know your point of view here,
particularly from your firsthand experience.
i didn't even know or care a thing at all about licenses until about 2 years
ago, and that was just from being employed to do the sound for an iphone
app.
with my own stuff i have
Le 2011-10-24 à 11:16:00, i go bananas a écrit :
jMax is distributed under GNU’s Lesser General Public License
http://jmax.sourceforge.net/
is that the LGPL that mattieu is talking about?
My name is Mathieu.
I no longer think that the LGPL is ok with the AppStore.
in that case, it might be
Le 2011-10-24 à 16:59:00, i go bananas a écrit :
out of interest, what's the deal with pd being used as the audio engine
for computer games, like Spore, or whatever? They don't make the source
code available, do they? Wouldn't those applications also have to avoid
[expr] ?
yes.
Le 2011-10-24 à 17:16:00, i go bananas a écrit :
LGPL seems ok on iphone, legally at least.
http://multinc.com/2009/08/24/compatibility-between-the-iphone-app-store-and-the-lgpl/
Too much info on the net contradicting each other. I think that we might
need legal advice or something that
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:33:25 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
hi andy - of course i'd be very willing to know your point of view here,
particularly from your firsthand experience.
I got an email like that, it kept me awake for some nights. I
experienced annoyance, anger, conflict,
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 08:36:39AM +0100, Andy Farnell wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to
get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too??
What makes you think its
On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 15:26 +0100, Andy Farnell wrote:
The thing about a nice email, no matter how politely and tactfully
you pen it, is that such a request can feel quite uncomfortable.
First it makes the assumption that the programmers choice of licence
was somehow shallow, maybe even
Am 23.10.2011 um 19:27 schrieb i go bananas:
or has anyone ever tried contacting the original authors and asking them to
change the license so it can fit in with pd's standard BSD ??
I've had the pleasure to meet Shahrokh Yadegari a few weeks back here in Weimar
and asked him about just that.
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 07:46:03 -0700
Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 08:36:39AM +0100, Andy Farnell wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900
i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote:
in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh
Le 2011-10-24 à 02:27:00, i go bananas a écrit :
how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need to
be GPL licensed?
The only other implementation of [expr] is [#expr], but that's GPL too.
But it shows that an implementation of [expr] doesn't have to be long and
On Oct 23, 2011, at 1:45 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Le 2011-10-24 à 02:27:00, i go bananas a écrit :
how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't
need to be GPL licensed?
The only other implementation of [expr] is [#expr], but that's GPL
too. But it shows that an
Le 2011-10-23 à 13:54:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
I think the Apple App Store conflicts with all GNU/FSF licenses.
Then think again !
__
| Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal,
From: i go bananas hard@gmail.com
To: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 1:27 PM
Subject: [PD] expr alternative
how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need to be
GPL licensed?
or has anyone ever tried contacting
What is the pain?
-Jonathan
Hi Jonathan,
if you want to use pd in a commercial application, and particularly if you
want to use it as the basis for an iphone application, then you cannot
include anything that is licensed under the GPL license. In vanilla PD,
this means that you have to
ok, so i checked out the http link that's listed at the top of expr help in
pd.
http://www.crca.ucsd.edu/~yadegari/expr.html
and it says,
Based on original sources from IRCAM's jMax http://www.ircam.fr/jmax
Released under GNU's General Public License.
so, if it is based on jMax code, does
jMax is distributed under GNU’s Lesser General Public License
http://jmax.sourceforge.net/
is that the LGPL that mattieu is talking about?
in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to
get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too??
i agree with hans that
On Oct 23, 2011, at 9:47 PM, i go bananas wrote:
What is the pain?
-Jonathan
Hi Jonathan,
if you want to use pd in a commercial application, and particularly
if you want to use it as the basis for an iphone application, then
you cannot include anything that is licensed under the GPL
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