Re: RFC 51 (v2) Angle brackets should accept filenames a

2000-08-09 Thread Jon Ericson
Chaim Frenkel wrote: What does $foo = "filename";# 1 $bar = "another"; $gaz = "filename; # 2 ^ add " here Does #2 get the second line or the first? $gaz contains the second line. Otherwise this: while ('filename'){print;};

Re: RFC 14 (v2) Modify open() to support FileObjects and

2000-08-09 Thread Nick Ing-Simmons
Graham Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 11:41:42AM -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: How about this? open '/etc/passwd'; # file OK open '/usr/local/bin/'; # directory (note the trailing '/') Portability, not all platforms use / Allowing

Re: RFC 14 (v2) Modify open() to support FileObjects and

2000-08-09 Thread Tom Hughes
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Graham Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 11:41:42AM -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: open 'ftp://ftp.perl.org/'; # ftp What user/password does it use Whatever you put in the URL with anonymous as default. open

Re: RFC 14 (v2) Modify open() to support FileObjects and

2000-08-09 Thread Tom Hughes
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The suggested syntax does not necessarily conflict with the above - the core might spot the xxx: scheme and try and load an xxx.pm from some well known path and hand off the open to that module. To follow up to

Re: RFC 51 (v2) Angle brackets should accept filenames a

2000-08-09 Thread Chaim Frenkel
"JE" == Jon Ericson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: @foo = lazy grep while( @foo ) { ... } JE What does lazy grep do? How does this apply? lazy would set the rest of arguments to be lazily evaluated. An iterator that would call the function until the results are exhusted. chaim -- Chaim

Re: RFC 69 (v1) Standardize input record separator (for

2000-08-09 Thread Bryan C . Warnock
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Chaim Frenkel wrote: BCW Isn't that what the nebulous line disciplines are supposed to handle? Has anyone taken on RFCing line disciplines? I haven't seen anything on them, but everyone seems to be in agreement that we're going to have them. If no one else wants to bite

Re: Summary of I/O related RFCs

2000-08-09 Thread Chaim Frenkel
"JE" == Jon Ericson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JE =item 33 (v1): Eliminate bareword filehandles. (language) JE No discussion. I think it carried unanimously. JE =item 36 (v1): Structured Internal Representation of Filenames JE (internal) JE No discussion of the proposal that "Wherever Perl

Re: RFC 14 (v2) Modify open() to support FileObjects and

2000-08-09 Thread Jonathan Scott Duff
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 07:26:29PM +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote: Graham Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 11:41:42AM -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: How about this? open '/etc/passwd'; # file OK open '/usr/local/bin/'; # directory

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Nathan Wiger
I think, if you look in the archives and the Camel, you'll find that turns out not to be the case. I really don't like putting words in other people's mouths, so I'll refrain. However, I have read comments from Larry and others in Camel and perl5-porters that say something akin to this: 1.

Re: RFC 23 (v2) Higher order functions

2000-08-09 Thread Hildo Biersma
=head1 TITLE Higher order functions Sounds good. We should add this to the language. Oh boy, the tricks we can play with this... Hildo

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Hildo Biersma
=head1 TITLE All Perl core functions should return objects Yuck. Why not use the proposed want() and return hash-refs or slices, when appropriate. Hildo

Re: RFC 59 (v1) Proposal to utilize C* as the prefix t

2000-08-09 Thread Piers Cawley
Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 09:28 AM 8/8/00 +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 12:07 AM 8/8/00 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote: On Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:56:40 -0700, Peter Scott wrote: I meant that BEGIN, END, and INIT aren't declared as

Re: RFC 71 (v1) Legacy Perl $pkg'var should die

2000-08-09 Thread Leon Brocard
Damian Conway sent the following bits through the ether: If you take this, I won't be able to port the forthcoming Klingon.pm module to Perl 6!!! D'oh! ;-) Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europe - September 22-24 London - http://yapc.org/Europe/

Re: access to pod/doc text by code

2000-08-09 Thread Piers Cawley
Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: some people have mentioned help strings as special parts of a sub declaration like gnu lisp has. this could be more support for that type of thing. but i don't want it to be too strange. Hmm... sub foo ($$;@) :lvalue "Documentation string here"

Re: RFC 23 (v2) Higher order functions

2000-08-09 Thread Piers Cawley
Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: =head1 TITLE Higher order functions Well, this should keep the Obfuscated Perl Contest going for at least another decade :-) Whilst still being deeply useful in non obfuscatory contexts too. -- Piers

Re: Error handling

2000-08-09 Thread Peter Bevan
Timeouts, shouldn't be reliant on UNIX. (Although I dont think they should be in the language eigther. A system is easily developed using threads. something which I hope to develop when perl6 is ready...) I don't understand this paragraph. As it stands, if you want to have a timeout

Re: println() ... printbr()

2000-08-09 Thread raptor
I actually saw this in the newsgroups and thought it was a neat idea. What about println $textvar; instead of print "$textvar\n"; Ever so much easier to read and write, prints the arg and appends \n. ]- I thought 'bout this too, but I think it is not general enought..Why ? we shall

Fw: println() ... printbr()

2000-08-09 Thread Peter Bevan
- Original Message - From: "Peter Bevan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "raptor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 11:05 AM Subject: Re: println() ... printbr() I actually saw this in the newsgroups and thought it was a neat idea. What about println $textvar;

Re: println() ... printbr()

2000-08-09 Thread iain truskett
* Peter Bevan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [09 Aug 2000 20:08]: To: "raptor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] print @array; must work like this : foraeach (@array) { print "$_\n"}; foraeach (@array) { print "$_BR"}; not like at the moment : foraeach (@array) { print $_}; This I totally disagree

Re: RFC 65 (v1) Add change bar functionality to pod

2000-08-09 Thread Bryan C . Warnock
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Hildo Biersma wrote: =head1 DESCRIPTION Making what's changed in documentation stand out's quite useful, something I'm coming to appreciate more and more as the RFCs are flying back and forth. The standard way to do this is to mark the changed sections with one

Re: AGAINST RFC 48 (v1) Replace localtime() and gmtime() with da

2000-08-09 Thread John Tobey
On Tue, Aug 08, 2000 at 10:47:10PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: John Tobey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 02:22:22AM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote: date() would be more general, and replace both. You can pass it a time zone, ANY time zone, and it will tell you what time it is

chomp unchomp

2000-08-09 Thread Ed Mills
Here is the argument- Perl has (had?) chomp(). It removes \n at the end of a line. That's something we often need to do. We ALSO often need to ADD \n to the end of a line. This usually looks something like: print "$kitty\n"; Hence my println() suggestion. Maybe instead it should be:

Re: RFC 48 (v2) Objects should have builtin stringifying

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Michael Fowler wrote: I think a stringified reference is worth seeing, moreso than a simple undef, for debugging purposes if nothing else. I personally would like to have the stringification of refs be a symmetric operation, i.e. such a string should dwim in a ref context: $r =

Re: RFC 58 (v1) Cchomp() changes.

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Bart Lateur wrote: chomp() is basically just a "postprocess data coming from a file" command. That is way too simplistic. I for one think the current behavior of chomp() is ideal for its simplicity. while() { /foo/ and next; # why bother chomping?

Re: RFC 58 (v1) Cchomp() changes.

2000-08-09 Thread Bart Lateur
On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:23:02 -0400, John Porter wrote: That is way too simplistic. I for one think the current behavior of chomp() is ideal for its simplicity. while() { /foo/ and next; # why bother chomping? if ( /bar/ ) { print; #

Re: RFC 71 (v1) Legacy Perl $pkg'var should die

2000-08-09 Thread Bart Lateur
On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 08:59:41 +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: D'oh! ;-) Ah, yes. Chris Nandor's module D'oh couldn't possibly be called with this appropriate name any more. http://search.cpan.org/search?mode=modulequery=d%3A%3Aoh OTOH, try this: $hash{a'b} = 1; print keys

Re: Things to remove

2000-08-09 Thread Steve Simmons
On Tue, Aug 08, 2000 at 06:34:19PM -0500, Mike Pastore wrote: Perl++ perm -- good old hairy perl, finally under control. Running and ducking, --Steve

Re: Infinite lists (was Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists)

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Ted Ashton wrote: John Porter: What would be the output of the following program: $\ = "\n"; $i = 0; for ( .. -1 ) { $i++; last if $i 2; print } If the answer is (as I suspect), "This never prints anything; it goes

Re: RFC 48 (v2) Objects should have builtin stringifying

2000-08-09 Thread Hildo Biersma
John Porter wrote: Michael Fowler wrote: I think a stringified reference is worth seeing, moreso than a simple undef, for debugging purposes if nothing else. I personally would like to have the stringification of refs be a symmetric operation, i.e. such a string should dwim in a ref

Re: Things to remove

2000-08-09 Thread Nathan Torkington
The discussion of a new name for perl6 is amusing but irrelevant. It's not like this list doesn't get enough traffic already. Thanks for ceasing and desisting. Nat

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 07:55 AM 8/9/00 -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote: It means a lot more code to write (and debug) for the things that return these objects, and that means parts of perl will be slower, take longer to write, and take up more space. Point taken. I don't think internals should be ignored

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread Michael Mathews
From: "Perl6 RFC Librarian" This allows actual running code to be inserted directly into the documentation for that code. This (if I understand your aim here) points out The Difference between comments and POD, and underlines why POD is not a good way to comment code. Comments can always be

Re: Infinite lists (was Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists)

2000-08-09 Thread James Mastros
Tangentialy, can I suggest that a nicer synthax might be -Inf..-1 / 1..Inf, etc. Assuming that we end up supporting full IEEE floats, this becomes the "obvious" synthax, and I find C(-Inf..Inf) to be far more clear then C(..). We've got plenty of puncuation already, thank you very much. Also,

Re: RFC 71 (v1) Legacy Perl $pkg'var should die

2000-08-09 Thread Larry Wall
Bart Lateur writes: : On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 08:59:41 +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: : : D'oh! ;-) : : Ah, yes. Chris Nandor's module D'oh couldn't possibly be called with : this appropriate name any more. : : http://search.cpan.org/search?mode=modulequery=d%3A%3Aoh : : : OTOH, try this: : :

RE: RFC 67 (v1) Deep Copying, aka, cloning around.

2000-08-09 Thread Garrett Goebel
From: Peter Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I would like deep copying to include copying CODE. It would be useful for implementing object methods... Why would it be necessary to deep copy a CODE reference? It might not be necessary. I'm still learning how to write kosher Perl... elegance

Re: vector and matrix calculations in core? (was: Re: Ramblings on base class for SV etc.)

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 04:06 PM 8/9/00 +, Ed Mills wrote: In keeping with Larry's design philosophy that the language should "not just sit there -do something!" I agree that there should be a number of vector/matrix manipulations available, performed in a psuedo-scalar context (not in a loop). That would be

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Nathan Wiger
I do agree that the internals shouldn't drive the language (otherwise a crack team of Ninja would've already taken care of that Conway guy... :), but neither can they be completely ignored. Agreed. Which reminds me, we should call off those Ninja... :-) Honestly, I'd rather you put

Re: Things to remove

2000-08-09 Thread Larry Wall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : Most of the requests for deletion seem to begin with, "This isn't : used..." : : To which, "*I* use it." is a very valid argument. : : Agreed. The real problem with ?...? is that it complicates the hell out : of the parser. So long as the special

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Chaim Frenkel
I don't think it will be a half million objects. Let's take stat (and all the other long list returns). The underlying implementation object could be a packed structure psuedohash. (Think DSECT.) Then the only op would be the packed structure pseudohash lookup. Which would be done at compile

Re: access to pod/doc text by code

2000-08-09 Thread Uri Guttman
"JV" == Johan Vromans [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JV Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i think reading the file may have issues like finding it. or doc strings for each sub vs. parsing that out of the whole pod. i just bothers me to have to read that file for stuff that was in the

Re: RFC 76 (v1) Builtin: reduce

2000-08-09 Thread Chaim Frenkel
Please consider the possiblity of tristate logic (RFC TBD.) ala, SQL. Assuming a "use tristate", undef + number = undef This might require that the reduce function be able to ignore undefs. Either always under the tristate pragma. Or on a case by case basis. Also you haven't specified if the

Re: RFC 78 (v1) Improved Module Versioning And Searching

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 10:44 AM 8/9/00 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : Note that it may not be possible to satisfy conflicting requests. If : module CA and module CB demand two different versions of the same : module CC, the compiler should halt and state the module conflicts. Pardon me for

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Operator overloading is scheduled to be revamped. While I remember - it would be good if overload mechansim could be extended to cover and || as well as and | with the class deciding if short-circuit happens. Oh, definitely. I

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Peter Scott
At 06:23 PM 8/9/00 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Operator overloading is scheduled to be revamped. While I remember - it would be good if overload mechansim could be extended to cover and || Yes. as well as and | with the class deciding if

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread Andy Dougherty
On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Michael Mathews wrote: To be fair, neither of these are examples of using a comment function for "comments" though, but rather using a comment function to disable sections of code and I suppose that makes as much sense as using POD to disable code. This is another

Re: Ramblings on base class for SV etc.

2000-08-09 Thread Nick Ing-Simmons
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, compactness for one. With a scalar on one side it's less odd (it was a bad example). When funkier, though: @foo = @bar * @baz; the expansion becomes less obvious It is "obviously" a cross-product ;-) With perl's $s and @s we can actually make

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Michael Mathews wrote: I do consider this a potential alternative to the MLC RFC ... I don't. This RFC deals strictly with POD. If a good in-line comment solution is also implemented, so much the better; but orthogonal to this. but to my mind it addresses the opposite problem: how to get

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Andy Dougherty wrote: This is another instance where a macro preprocessor might be useful. ... Just hoping that looking at it from another skewed viewpoint may inspire someone, Fine; but I hope people only see RFC 79 as an extension to POD, because that's all it really is. It does not

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
No. I don't want to see or || and not know whether it short-circuits without looking in the class interface. My brain is conditioned through years of C and Perl to expect that they always short-circuit. This is too venerable a semantic to change. Please. What if I want to

Re: RFC 78 (v1) Improved Module Versioning And Searching

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 11:11 AM 8/9/00 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: Dan Sugalski writes: : Does that mean, then, that when module A does a "$C::bar = 1" it affects a : different package namespace than module B doing a "$C::bar = 2"? Presumably. H. That brings up some issues of ambiguity, then. If you use C in

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Peter Scott
At 04:58 AM 8/10/00 +1000, Damian Conway wrote: No. I don't want to see or || and not know whether it short-circuits without looking in the class interface. My brain is conditioned through years of C and Perl to expect that they always short-circuit. This is too venerable

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 12:09 PM 8/9/00 -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: I want the core to stay useful but not complex. If localtime returned a hashref in scalar context, that'd be enough for me: $now = localtime; print $now-{MONTH}; print $now-{YEAR}; # already has 1900 added onto it :-)

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 12:04 PM 8/9/00 -0700, Peter Scott wrote: At 04:58 AM 8/10/00 +1000, Damian Conway wrote: No. I don't want to see or || and not know whether it short-circuits without looking in the class interface. My brain is conditioned through years of C and Perl to expect that they

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
What if I want to overload and || so that they help built an expression tree, rather than immediately evaluating? Is it worth the damage it will cause to fragile brains like mine? "Pain is the weakness leaving your body!" ;-) I have often wondered whether a language could

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
Of course, by the time Damian's done, perl won't actually *do* anything--you'll need to fire off another window and do a "kill -HEYYOUGETMOVING 23442" to actually make something happen... Actually, the plan is exactly the opposite. By the time I'm finished everything will be

Re: RFC 54 (v1) Operators: Polymorphic comparisons

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 05:12 PM 8/7/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: "DC" == Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I currently fail to switch to 'eq' many times when I should, but the failure mode is obvious. Her the failure mode will be really strange. DC I would claim that the failure mode is not obvious:

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 05:23 AM 8/10/00 +1000, Damian Conway wrote: Of course, by the time Damian's done, perl won't actually *do* anything--you'll need to fire off another window and do a "kill -HEYYOUGETMOVING 23442" to actually make something happen... Actually, the plan is exactly the opposite.

Re: DRAFT RFC: Enhanced Pack/Unpack

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 10:53 PM 8/7/00 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote: Right. Why you people don't call it "Intel" vs. "Motorola", like the rest of the civilised world, I don't know. ;-) See the TIFF spec, for example. Er, in case you were in any doubt: Motorola (from the 68k processors) is BigEndian, Intel (x86) is

Re: DRAFT RFC: Enhanced Pack/Unpack

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 07:26 PM 8/7/00 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: From /usr/include/endian.h on my linux box: #define __LITTLE_ENDIAN 1234 #define __BIG_ENDIAN4321 #define __PDP_ENDIAN3412 Basically PDP or middle endian is low byte first within each word but high word first in the overall longword. This,

Re: chomp unchomp

2000-08-09 Thread Bryan C . Warnock
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Ed Mills wrote: Here is the argument- Perl has (had?) chomp(). It removes \n at the end of a line. That's something we often need to do. We ALSO often need to ADD \n to the end of a line. This usually looks something like: print "$kitty\n"; Chomp removes one or

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Uri Guttman wrote: but how will perl access that text? what perl var get the text in that =for block? Well, the proposal was more about getting perl code into doco than getting doco into perl. the proposal for a special here doc notation is possible but that can be hard for pod to parse

Re: chomp unchomp

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Bryan C. Warnock wrote: Chomp removes one or more line separators from the end. It does? You're using a different version of Perl than I am. -- John Porter

Re: chomp unchomp

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 03:36 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Bryan C. Warnock wrote: On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, Ed Mills wrote: Here is the argument- Perl has (had?) chomp(). It removes \n at the end of a line. That's something we often need to do. We ALSO often need to ADD \n to the end of a line. This usually looks

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Nick Ing-Simmons
Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 06:23 PM 8/9/00 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Operator overloading is scheduled to be revamped. While I remember - it would be good if overload mechansim could be extended to cover and || Yes. as well as and |

Re: RFC 54 (v1) Operators: Polymorphic comparisons

2000-08-09 Thread Clayton Scott
Dan Sugalski wrote: At 05:12 PM 8/7/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: "DC" == Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I currently fail to switch to 'eq' many times when I should, but the failure mode is obvious. Her the failure mode will be really strange. DC I would claim that the

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread Uri Guttman
"JP" == John Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JP Maybe what's needed is two distinct perl pod processor types, one JP which passes on the text literally to the compiler, and one which JP wraps it up like a string literal. JP print JP =for perl-string pod JP Help is on the

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Nathan Torkington
Dan Sugalski writes: Which sort of argues for localtime in a numeric scalar context to return epoch seconds, in a string scalar context to return a time string, and in a plain scalar context a hashref. (or mini-object, or tied thingamabob, or whatever) Of course, we're trying to kill $!

Re: chomp unchomp

2000-08-09 Thread Bryan C . Warnock
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000, John Porter wrote: Bryan C. Warnock wrote: Chomp removes one or more line separators from the end. It does? You're using a different version of Perl than I am. Sorry. You're correct. I was rolling the string, list, and paragraph mode removals all into one

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Nathan Torkington
Peter Scott writes: I have often wondered whether a language could allow user-defined operators. The fact that none have done it should be a clue :-) I guess it's getting too incestuous with the lexer. Ilya sent in a patch for user-defined operators. It was rejected, not least because

Re: chomp unchomp

2000-08-09 Thread Bart Lateur
On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 15:42:24 -0400, John Porter wrote: Bryan C. Warnock wrote: Chomp removes one or more line separators from the end. It does? You're using a different version of Perl than I am. Try setting $/ to the empty string. (not undef!) -- Bart.

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
I'm nervous about these different contexts. I thought scalar vs list was confusion enough. Now we're talking about overloading even further? We need to think VERY long and VERY hard about this before thinking it's a good thing. Well, I have, and I do. (Though I'm no longer

Re: RFC 76 (v1) Builtin: reduce

2000-08-09 Thread Bart Lateur
On 09 Aug 2000 13:49:24 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: Assuming a "use tristate", undef + number = undef This might require that the reduce function be able to ignore undefs. Either always under the tristate pragma. Or on a case by case basis. grep defined, LIST -- Bart.

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Uri Guttman wrote: "JP" == John Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JP Maybe what's needed is two distinct perl pod processor types, one JP which passes on the text literally to the compiler, and one which JP wraps it up like a string literal. JP print JP =for

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Chaim Frenkel
"DS" == Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DS At 01:33 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: I don't think it will be a half million objects. Let's take stat (and all the other long list returns). The underlying implementation object could be a packed structure psuedohash. (Think

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread John Porter
Johan Vromans wrote: Be reminded that Perl++ will increment Perl, but return the _current_ value. Heh, at least we're not python = python + 1 -- John Porter

Re: Overloading ||

2000-08-09 Thread Nick Ing-Simmons
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have often wondered whether a language could allow user-defined operators. The fact that none have done it should be a clue :-) What, like C++? ("I don't believe in it?" "What, C++? Just a conspiracy of computer programmers?") You cannot as far as I

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread Chaim Frenkel
Doesn't that put the formating for a target within the document. Shouldn't that be external to the actual markup? How about backing up a bit, and adding a style sheet to POD? Then only markup will be in pod, then making things disappear would be the job of the stylesheet. chaim "LW" == Larry

Re: Things to remove

2000-08-09 Thread Bart Lateur
On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:25:56 -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: Someone proposed (I think I deleted that email) to make while (FH) { ... } work like while (FH) { chomp; ... } Guilty. I've benchmarked the above codes, with '...' replaced by nothing, chomp vs. the -l command

Re: RFC 79 (v1) Code which is both executable and POD.

2000-08-09 Thread Michael Mathews
Larry Wall said: John Porter writes: : So, are you saying that if this RFC is implemented, POD would be : an good way to comment code? It already is, as far as I'm concerned. Please, if I'm missing something specific please explain it to me. But here's what I can tell from the documentation

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread David L. Nicol
Nathan Torkington wrote: Dan Sugalski writes: Which sort of argues for localtime in a numeric scalar context to return epoch seconds, in a string scalar context to return a time string, and in a plain scalar context a hashref. (or mini-object, or tied thingamabob, or whatever) Of

Re: RFC 78 (v1) Improved Module Versioning And Searching

2000-08-09 Thread Steve Simmons
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 10:44:03AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: : Note that it may not be possible to satisfy conflicting requests. If : module CA and module CB demand two different versions of the same : module CC, the compiler should halt and state the module conflicts. Pardon me for sniping

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Steve Simmons
I'm pretty much opposed to this idea. It's pushing OO too far onto perl.

Re: RFC 54 (v1) Operators: Polymorphic comparisons

2000-08-09 Thread David L. Nicol
Clayton Scott wrote: I first thought that "==" and "eq" were cut from the same cloth as "||" and "or" that is the difference was precedence. Then I learned. Mr. Scott's experience is evidence for a strong argument AGAINST operator overloading. If we allow object types, and allow

Re: Infinite lists (was Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists)

2000-08-09 Thread Jeremy Howard
Ted Ashton wrote: Thus it was written in the epistle of John Porter, Ken Fox wrote: Both of those expressions are the infinite list (-infinity..-1). I have no idea how to write that properly 'cause I'm not a math guy. These things aren't streams (infinite queues) -- they're

Re: RFC 76 (v1) Builtin: reduce

2000-08-09 Thread Chaim Frenkel
"DC" == Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DC I'm not sure how this would affect the proposal. If an item in the DC list being reduced is undef, it appears in the reduction DC subroutines arg list as undef. The reduction subroutine can then DC handle it (or not) as it chooses. DC For

Re: RFC 54 (v1) Operators: Polymorphic comparisons

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
I first thought that "==" and "eq" were cut from the same cloth as "||" and "or" that is the difference was precedence. Then I learned. Mr. Scott's experience is evidence for a strong argument AGAINST operator overloading. Huh??? I draw exactly the opposite

Re: Infinite lists (was Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists)

2000-08-09 Thread Jeremy Howard
Ted Ashton wrote: I understand very well the concern. I, for one, don't agree that having (1..) in the language implies that having (..-1) is possible (though it does make sense to me that having (1..) and (..-1) would imply having (..)). After all, if I were to write for (1..) {

Re: vector and matrix calculations in core? (was: Re: Ramblings on base class for SV etc.)

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 11:13 PM 8/9/00 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote: On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 12:46:32 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote: @foo = @bar * @baz; Given that the default action of the multiply routine for an array in non-scalar context would be to die, allowing user-overrides of the functions would probably be a

Re: RFC 73 (v1) All Perl core functions should return ob

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 09:16 PM 8/9/00 +, David L. Nicol wrote: Nathan Torkington wrote: Dan Sugalski writes: Which sort of argues for localtime in a numeric scalar context to return epoch seconds, in a string scalar context to return a time string, and in a plain scalar context a hashref. (or

Re: RFC 78 (v1) Improved Module Versioning And Searching

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 01:50 PM 8/9/00 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: Dan Sugalski writes: : At 11:11 AM 8/9/00 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: : Dan Sugalski writes: : : Does that mean, then, that when module A does a "$C::bar = 1" it affects a : : different package namespace than module B doing a "$C::bar = 2"? : :

Re: RFC 76 (v1) Builtin: reduce

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
Actually, it would be easier to do in reduce, the undefs should simply be ignored. Otherwise having the user code it, becomes { defined $_[0] defined $_[1] ? $_[0] + $_[1] : defined $[0] ? $_[0] : $_[1] } Pretty ugly. And for the N

Re: RFC 78 (v1) Improved Module Versioning And Searching

2000-08-09 Thread Ted Ashton
Thus it was written in the epistle of Steve Simmons, . . . but I already promised the CPAN workers that I'd make that last statement false. There's no reason in principle why two modules shouldn't be allowed to have their own view of reality. Just because you write Foo::bar in your

Re: RFC 76 (v1) Builtin: reduce

2000-08-09 Thread Randal L. Schwartz
"Chaim" == Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DC For example, to short-circuit if the reduction ever becomes undef: DC $sum = { defined $_[0] or last; $_[0]+$_[1] } 0, @numbers; Chaim Actually, it would be easier to do in reduce, the undefs should Chaim simply be ignored. If I

Re: RFC: Higher resolution time values

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 08:18 PM 8/9/00 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote: Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 06:16 PM 8/9/00 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote: Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As an engineer I would really like to know when you are going to run out of precision in double - that is

Re: vector and matrix calculations in core? (was: Re: Ramblings on base class for SV etc.)

2000-08-09 Thread Jeremy Howard
Bart Lateur wrote: If you're talking about matrix manipulations, I should immediately hold you back. Perl arrays are pretty bad as is for representing matrices. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise: Perl data structures are one-dimensionaly by nature. A lazily evaluated slicing operator

Re: Infinite lists (was Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists)

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
I'm looking forward to the upcoming writeup :-). I'm thinking of recanting the whole RFC! :-) Damian

Re: Infinite lists (was Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists)

2000-08-09 Thread Ted Ashton
Thus it was written in the epistle of Damian Conway, I'm looking forward to the upcoming writeup :-). I'm thinking of recanting the whole RFC! :-) *checking etymology* hmmm . . . "recant" . . . "recant" . . . doesn't that mean to sing the whole thing over again? :-), Ted P.S. Seems

Re: Infinite lists (was Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists)

2000-08-09 Thread Damian Conway
I'm thinking of recanting the whole RFC! :-) *checking etymology* hmmm . . . "recant" . . . "recant" . . . doesn't that mean to sing the whole thing over again? Literally: "to sing a different tune". :-) Seems to me that while putting hooks in the core to allow this sort

overloading assignment operators

2000-08-09 Thread David L. Nicol
Dan Sugalski wrote: Both the l and rvalues will need to participate. Sorry. Quick review of how C++ does it indicates that selecting an assignment operator from the lvalue's methods makes sense. Since we have dynamic typing, there's nothing keeping an assignment method from running through

Re: overloading assignment operators

2000-08-09 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 10:33 PM 8/9/00 +, David L. Nicol wrote: Dan Sugalski wrote: Both the l and rvalues will need to participate. Sorry. Quick review of how C++ does it indicates that selecting an assignment operator from the lvalue's methods makes sense. Sure, and using the rvalue makes sense too, in

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