[HACKERS] Win32 release warning
I have shortened your paragraph to: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, this port might have more bugs than other supported platforms in this release. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. and made the change in release.sgml. Do we need more? Other wording I considered was: we expect this port not to be as bug-free as other supported platforms but that is close to a double-negative. In adding this now, I would also like to see a notice in a future release at the point we think Win32 is as bug-free as Unix (or as bug-free as the platform allows). (And this might happen in a minor 8.0.X release.) Again, my concern about this stuff is that you later have to undo what you said. --- Neil Conway wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: What text are people suggesting? How do people feel about the attached doc patch? Cheers, Neil Index: doc/src/sgml/release.sgml === RCS file: /Users/neilc/local/cvs/pgsql-server/doc/src/sgml/release.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.288 diff -c -r1.288 release.sgml *** doc/src/sgml/release.sgml 24 Aug 2004 00:06:50 - 1.288 --- doc/src/sgml/release.sgml 26 Aug 2004 05:43:32 - *** *** 28,47 listitem para This is the first productnamePostgreSQL/productname ! release to natively run on Microsoft Windows as a server. It ! can run as a Windows service. This release supports NT-based ! Windows releases like Win2000, XP, Win2003. Older releases ! like Windows 95, 98, and ME are not supported because these ! operating systems do not have the infrastructure to support ! productnamePostgreSQL/productname. A separate installer ! project has been created to ease installation on Windows: ulink url=http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pginstaller; http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pginstaller/ulink. /para !para ! Previous releases required the Unix emulation toolkit Cygwin for ! Win32 server support. productnamePostgreSQL/productname ! has always supported clients on Win32. /para /listitem /varlistentry --- 28,65 listitem para This is the first productnamePostgreSQL/productname ! release to natively run on Microsoft Windows as a server. This ! release supports Windows 2000, XP, and 2003. Older releases of ! Windows are not supported because they lack the infrastructure ! necessary to support productnamePostgreSQL/productname. A ! separate installer project has been created to allow for easy ! installation on Windows: ulink url=http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pginstaller; http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pginstaller/ulink. /para ! !warning ! para ! This is the first release of productnamePostgreSQL/ to ! natively support Win32. As a result, the Windows port of ! productnamePostgreSQL/ is less mature and likely less ! stable than productnamePostgreSQL/ on Unix. While we have ! done our best to produce a high-quality release for Windows, ! users accustomed to the stability and maturity of ! productnamePostgreSQL/ on Unix may not be satisfied by ! the current state of productnamePostgreSQL/ on ! Windows. We expect the maturity of the Windows port to ! significantly increase in the future. We encourage all ! prospective users of productnamePostgreSQL/ on Windows to ! carefully evaluate the database system before putting it into ! production use. ! /para !/warning ! !para ! Previous releases required the Unix emulation toolkit Cygwin ! for Win32 server support. productnamePostgreSQL/ has ! supported clients on Win32 for a long time. /para /listitem /varlistentry -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Bruce Momjian wrote: I have shortened your paragraph to: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, this port might have more bugs than other supported platforms in this release. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. and made the change in release.sgml. Do we need more? I don't much like might have more bugs. Perhaps might be less robust or might be less stable? cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: I have shortened your paragraph to: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, this port might have more bugs than other supported platforms in this release. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. and made the change in release.sgml. Do we need more? I don't much like might have more bugs. Perhaps might be less robust or might be less stable? lacks the extended testing? Or even we don't have an extended track-record on this platform. -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Richard Huxton wrote: lacks the extended testing? That's good. We don't need to focus on bugs. The word bug and postgresql should never occur in the same sentence... hmm... -- /Dennis Björklund ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
OK, new wording: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, it has not been tested as extensively as other supported platforms in this release. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. --- Dennis Bjorklund wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Richard Huxton wrote: lacks the extended testing? That's good. We don't need to focus on bugs. The word bug and postgresql should never occur in the same sentence... hmm... -- /Dennis Bj?rklund -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] rpm for RH AS 2.1 ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Gaetano Mendola wrote: Problem solved, apparently the RH AS 2.1 doesn't have the Distutil package installed by default so the distutils module was not available in order to retrieve the python_path. Ok, cool. If you want put the rpm that I obtained in the ftp server you can find them here: http://mendola.no-ip.com/rpm745.htm let me know if you take it so I'll remove it. I'll download them until tonite and will upload them to ftp site. Thanks for building the packages. Regards, - -- Devrim GUNDUZ devrim~gunduz.org devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr http://www.tdmsoft.com http://www.gunduz.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBLfjitl86P3SPfQ4RAuVNAKCwjEL83RZJnebx4ktOUQySlufr4gCgps9a 3gwYfXHQOzhofw5QBjk0jRE= =J5Z8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] compile warnings in HEAD
Has this been fixed? --- Neil Conway wrote: I get the following warnings compiling current sources: /Users/neilc/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump/pg_backup_db.c: In function `_isIdentChar': /Users/neilc/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump/pg_backup_db.c:874: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type /Users/neilc/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump/pg_backup_db.c: In function `_isDQChar': /Users/neilc/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump/pg_backup_db.c:891: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type Default CFLAGS. Machine specs: [neilc:/Users/neilc/build-pgsql]% gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.3/specs Thread model: posix gcc version 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495) [neilc:/Users/neilc/build-pgsql]% uname -a Darwin CPE000a95ab279e-CM000a735d27c0 7.5.0 Darwin Kernel Version 7.5.0: Thu Aug 5 19:26:16 PDT 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.7.21.obj~3/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc (i.e. OSX 10.3.5) -Neil ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] compile warnings in HEAD
At 12:57 AM 27/08/2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: Has this been fixed? In my local files, yes. I've been waiting on the 'set magic_tablespace' code, but patch to fix the warnings only is attached. Philip Warner| __---_ Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |/ - \ (A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /(@) __---_ Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _ \ Fax: (+61) 03 5330 3172 | ___ | Http://www.rhyme.com.au |/ \| |---- PGP key available upon request, | / and from pgp.mit.edu:11371 |/ pg_backup_db.c.patch.gz Description: Binary data ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Later Rob OK, new wording: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, it has not been tested as extensively as other supported platforms in this release. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. --- Dennis Bjorklund wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Richard Huxton wrote: lacks the extended testing? That's good. We don't need to focus on bugs. The word bug and postgresql should never occur in the same sentence... hmm... -- /Dennis Bj?rklund -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend ___ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Rob Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Not bad, but it doesn't make the point that there's a lot of new platform-specific code for Windows in there. You want to point out not only that there's no history, but that there's new code to be suspicious of. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tom Lane wrote: Rob Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Not bad, but it doesn't make the point that there's a lot of new platform-specific code for Windows in there. You want to point out not only that there's no history, but that there's new code to be suspicious of. Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Tom Lane wrote: Rob Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Not bad, but it doesn't make the point that there's a lot of new platform-specific code for Windows in there. You want to point out not only that there's no history, but that there's new code to be suspicious of. Agreed, but savepoints probably has more code. Do we warn about that too? I agree there is a disconnect between the initial clause and the testing part, and mentioning the code actually does fix that, so new wording is: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, there is much new Win32-specific code that has not been tested extensively. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. Also, we probably have more beta testers on Win32 than on all Unix platforms combined, though they might not be testing as thoroughly as Unix. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tom Lane wrote: Rob Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Not bad, but it doesn't make the point that there's a lot of new platform-specific code for Windows in there. You want to point out not only that there's no history, but that there's new code to be suspicious of. Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Wow, that is good! Current wording is: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, there is much new Win32-specific code that has not been tested extensively. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. Should I change it to Marc's version? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Also, we probably have more beta testers on Win32 than on all Unix platforms combined, though they might not be testing as thoroughly as Unix. Maybe I am just being dense, but isn't this obvious? I mean this is the first release of the Win32 code. Anybody who would be willing to put it in production without extensive testing deserves everything they get. Then again we are talking about people who willinging use Windows as the primary platform. Forget I brought it up. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-667-4564 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.commandprompt.com Mammoth PostgreSQL Replicator. Integrated Replication for PostgreSQL begin:vcard fn:Joshua D. Drake n:Drake;Joshua D. org:Command Prompt, Inc. adr:;;PO Box 215;Cascade Locks;Oregon;97014;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Consultant tel;work:503-667-4564 tel;fax:503-210-0334 note:Command Prompt, Inc. is the largest and oldest US based commercial PostgreSQL support provider. We provide the only commercially viable integrated PostgreSQL replication solution, but also custom programming, and support. We authored the book Practical PostgreSQL, the procedural language plPHP, and adding trigger capability to plPerl. x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.commandprompt.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Also, we probably have more beta testers on Win32 than on all Unix platforms combined, though they might not be testing as thoroughly as Unix. Maybe I am just being dense, but isn't this obvious? I mean this is the first release of the Win32 code. Anybody who would be willing to put it in production without extensive testing deserves everything they get. Then again we are talking about people who willinging use Windows as the primary platform. Forget I brought it up. I think there is concern that if the Win32 port is buggy that it will give the project a bad reputation. It will probably be distributed to many who have never used PostgreSQL before. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Wow, that is good! Current wording is: Because Win32 is significantly different from the Unix platforms supported in previous releases, there is much new Win32-specific code that has not been tested extensively. Please test it thoroughly before using it in production. Should I change it to Marc's version? This is much better. However I would still remove the phrase 'has not been tested extensively'. I've been testing almost continuously since the port became available around March, and so have a lot of others. I quit around July because it seemed to be a waste of time (most everything works fine). Is it really a good idea to imply that any code is released without extensive testing? Either 8.0 is release quality or it isn't. If it isn't, delay the release until it is. If there are (valid) concerns about the win32 specific codebase, let's put together some formal tests and knock those out of the way. Merlin ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tom Lane wrote: Rob Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Not bad, but it doesn't make the point that there's a lot of new platform-specific code for Windows in there. You want to point out not only that there's no history, but that there's new code to be suspicious of. Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Not bad. I think I'd say ... does not have the benefit of years of use in production environments that PostgreSQL has on Unix platforms ... - I agree with Merlin that we shouldn't imply it hasn't been extensively tested. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thursday 26 August 2004 12:56, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Wow, that is good! Should I change it to Marc's version? As long as 'although' is correctly spelled :-) -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Lamar Owen wrote: On Thursday 26 August 2004 12:56, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Wow, that is good! Should I change it to Marc's version? As long as 'although' is correctly spelled :-) Ya ya, I'm lazy :) Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: Also, we probably have more beta testers on Win32 than on all Unix platforms combined, though they might not be testing as thoroughly as Unix. Maybe I am just being dense, but isn't this obvious? I mean this is the first release of the Win32 code. Anybody who would be willing to put it in production without extensive testing deserves everything they get. Then again we are talking about people who willinging use Windows as the primary platform. Forget I brought it up. I think there is concern that if the Win32 port is buggy that it will give the project a bad reputation. It will probably be distributed to many who have never used PostgreSQL before. Since I imagine 99.9% of Windows users are going to use pginstaller to install it ... has anyone looked into putting a WARNING pop up window as part of the install itself? Or does such already exist? Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
OK, current text suggestion is: Although tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of years of use in production environments that PostgreSQL has on Unix platforms and therefore should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product. --- Andrew Dunstan wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tom Lane wrote: Rob Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Not bad, but it doesn't make the point that there's a lot of new platform-specific code for Windows in there. You want to point out not only that there's no history, but that there's new code to be suspicious of. Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Not bad. I think I'd say ... does not have the benefit of years of use in production environments that PostgreSQL has on Unix platforms ... - I agree with Merlin that we shouldn't imply it hasn't been extensively tested. cheers andrew -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: Also, we probably have more beta testers on Win32 than on all Unix platforms combined, though they might not be testing as thoroughly as Unix. Maybe I am just being dense, but isn't this obvious? I mean this is the first release of the Win32 code. Anybody who would be willing to put it in production without extensive testing deserves everything they get. Then again we are talking about people who willinging use Windows as the primary platform. Forget I brought it up. I think there is concern that if the Win32 port is buggy that it will give the project a bad reputation. It will probably be distributed to many who have never used PostgreSQL before. Since I imagine 99.9% of Windows users are going to use pginstaller to install it ... has anyone looked into putting a WARNING pop up window as part of the install itself? Or does such already exist? There is already one for the beta. I don't see a need to add one for final release. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: There is already one for the beta. I don't see a need to add one for final release. Might be an idea ... if nothing else, something that at least reminds them about reporting bugs and where to do so? I'd hate to see 1000 ppl install, 90% see bugs adn never have them reported :( Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
If you are afraid of the quality of the windows port, then label it as a BETA. When everyone is fully satisfied that the kinks have been worked out, call it a RELEASE. It is a bad practice to use the world as a BETA test without their knowledge. Even as a BETA, it will be plenty popular. In 6 months, after all the little idiosyncrasies have perked up to the surface and been fixed, then release it as a formal RELEASE with a big fanfare. IMO-YMMV. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marc G. Fournier Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:32 AM To: Bruce Momjian Cc: Joshua D. Drake; Tom Lane; Rob Butler; Dennis Bjorklund; Richard Huxton; Andrew Dunstan; Neil Conway; PostgreSQL Win32 port list; PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: Also, we probably have more beta testers on Win32 than on all Unix platforms combined, though they might not be testing as thoroughly as Unix. Maybe I am just being dense, but isn't this obvious? I mean this is the first release of the Win32 code. Anybody who would be willing to put it in production without extensive testing deserves everything they get. Then again we are talking about people who willinging use Windows as the primary platform. Forget I brought it up. I think there is concern that if the Win32 port is buggy that it will give the project a bad reputation. It will probably be distributed to many who have never used PostgreSQL before. Since I imagine 99.9% of Windows users are going to use pginstaller to install it ... has anyone looked into putting a WARNING pop up window as part of the install itself? Or does such already exist? Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: There is already one for the beta. I don't see a need to add one for final release. Might be an idea ... if nothing else, something that at least reminds them about reporting bugs and where to do so? I'd hate to see 1000 ppl install, 90% see bugs adn never have them reported :( Yes, I was thinking of that, and of telling them they may need to upgrade more frequently than normal 8.0.0 users to fix win32 bugs as we find them. In fact, the idea I was thinking of is to have pginstaller update from current cvs more frequently than we make minor releases as we have done during beta. That way, people can get win32 fixes faster. Also, maybe we should encourage them to subscribe to announce so we can announce any Win32 fix releases we might need. They probably aren't used to that procedure. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: There is already one for the beta. I don't see a need to add one for final release. Might be an idea ... if nothing else, something that at least reminds them about reporting bugs and where to do so? I'd hate to see 1000 ppl install, 90% see bugs adn never have them reported :( Yes, I was thinking of that, and of telling them they may need to upgrade more frequently than normal 8.0.0 users to fix win32 bugs as we find them. In fact, the idea I was thinking of is to have pginstaller update from current cvs more frequently than we make minor releases as we have done during beta. That way, people can get win32 fixes faster. Also, maybe we should encourage them to subscribe to announce so we can announce any Win32 fix releases we might need. They probably aren't used to that procedure. Having installed enough Windows software over the years (unfortunately), how about adding a 'register for annoucements' with a textbox to auto-subscribe to the list if they so choose? Instead of making them go through opening their mail reader and having to send off the message ... my experience with most Windows users is that 'the least amount of work required' means the most likely they will do it :( Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
There is already one for the beta. I don't see a need to add one for final release. Might be an idea ... if nothing else, something that at least reminds them about reporting bugs and where to do so? I'd hate to see 1000 ppl install, 90% see bugs adn never have them reported :( Yes, I was thinking of that, and of telling them they may need to upgrade more frequently than normal 8.0.0 users to fix win32 bugs as we find them. In fact, the idea I was thinking of is to have pginstaller update from current cvs more frequently than we make minor releases as we have done during beta. That way, people can get win32 fixes faster. Also, maybe we should encourage them to subscribe to announce so we can announce any Win32 fix releases we might need. They probably aren't used to that procedure. Having installed enough Windows software over the years (unfortunately), how about adding a 'register for annoucements' with a textbox to auto-subscribe to the list if they so choose? Instead of making them go through opening their mail reader and having to send off the message ... my experience with most Windows users is that 'the least amount of work required' means the most likely they will do it :( Right. So how would you get the email address, without starting the mail reader? We could add a checkbox that takes them to a webpage that permits subscription. But they are certainly going to need to put their email address in there in some way... //Magnus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Magnus Hagander wrote: Right. So how would you get the email address, without starting the mail reader? have them enter one in a text box? We could add a checkbox that takes them to a webpage that permits subscription. But they are certainly going to need to put their email address in there in some way... Sorry, I didn't mean no email address ... I meant having a text box on in pginstaller itself that would auto-mail that out ... a link to the subscribe option(s) at the web site would be perfect too ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Right. So how would you get the email address, without starting the mail reader? have them enter one in a text box? We could add a checkbox that takes them to a webpage that permits subscription. But they are certainly going to need to put their email address in there in some way... Sorry, I didn't mean no email address ... I meant having a text box on in pginstaller itself that would auto-mail that out ... Don't think that's going to work. You need th emailserver. In most cases, you need the login for the mailserver. Most companies and nowadays a lot of home ISPs block outbound SMTP unless you go through their authenticated servers. a link to the subscribe option(s) at the web site would be perfect too ... That one can work, assuming we have a web form somewhere people can subscribe from. //Magnus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On August 26, 2004 01:06 pm, Magnus Hagander wrote: pginstaller itself that would auto-mail that out ... Don't think that's going to work. You need th emailserver. In most cases, you need the login for the mailserver. Most companies and nowadays a lot of home ISPs block outbound SMTP unless you go through their authenticated servers. a link to the subscribe option(s) at the web site would be perfect too ... That one can work, assuming we have a web form somewhere people can subscribe from. //Magnus Have the installer automagiclay http-post the required info (that they filled in) ? -- Darcy Buskermolen Wavefire Technologies Corp. ph: 250.717.0200 fx: 250.763.1759 http://www.wavefire.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 15:52, Magnus Hagander wrote: Also, maybe we should encourage them to subscribe to announce so we can announce any Win32 fix releases we might need. They probably aren't used to that procedure. Having installed enough Windows software over the years (unfortunately), how about adding a 'register for annoucements' with a textbox to auto-subscribe to the list if they so choose? Instead of making them go through opening their mail reader and having to send off the message ... my experience with most Windows users is that 'the least amount of work required' means the most likely they will do it :( Right. So how would you get the email address, without starting the mail reader? We could add a checkbox that takes them to a webpage that permits subscription. But they are certainly going to need to put their email address in there in some way... All we need to do is and in some of the klez/sobig tech and not only can we subscribe them, but we should be able to read through their address book and subscribe 50 of their closest friends without any prompting at all :-) Robert Treat -- Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
[HACKERS] contrib/start-scripts/linux on Debian
I'd love to see a comment added to the linux start-script included in contrib that referenced update-rc.d. It's useful to note because Debian has different runlevels from Red Hat, and update-rc.d will intelligently do the same thing as chkconfig for Debian systems. If it's useful, I could post a patch, but since it's just a comment that would be sufficient (IMHO), it seemed like a post with request was also sufficient. :) Something like: # Debian users might want to consider using update-rc.d since Debian has its own set of runlevels. Thanks! -tfo ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] Contrib Shared varaibles
After taking some suggestions, I added a number of routines. Please test and tell me what you think. (Yes, I know the API is poorly named, have any suggestions?) sharedvar-040826.tgz Description: application/unix-tar ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Magnus Hagander wrote: Right. So how would you get the email address, without starting the mail reader? have them enter one in a text box? We could add a checkbox that takes them to a webpage that permits subscription. But they are certainly going to need to put their email address in there in some way... Sorry, I didn't mean no email address ... I meant having a text box on in pginstaller itself that would auto-mail that out ... Don't think that's going to work. You need th emailserver. In most cases, you need the login for the mailserver. Most companies and nowadays a lot of home ISPs block outbound SMTP unless you go through their authenticated servers. a link to the subscribe option(s) at the web site would be perfect too ... That one can work, assuming we have a web form somewhere people can subscribe from. Yup, that is easy to do ... you just go to the mj_wwwuser form with the right args to tellit what mailing list ... you can easy tell i twhat userid if you can get that somehow from the OS ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
Bruce Momjian wrote: OK, current text suggestion is: Although tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of years of use in production environments that PostgreSQL has on Unix platforms and therefore should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product. What about: ... Unix like platforms ... Regards Gaetano Mendola ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Robert Treat wrote: All we need to do is and in some of the klez/sobig tech and not only can we subscribe them, but we should be able to read through their address book and subscribe 50 of their closest friends without any prompting at all :-) We could, but make sure its in the License Agreement so that its legal :) And, in case you didn't know, this has happened ... there was a company that distributed software that in there termsconditions (that you had to agree to), there was a clause that said you agreed to them mailing out to those ppl it finds in your addressbook :) Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [ppa-cvs] CVS: webdb/lang/recoded english.php,1.114,1.115
Suggestion - let's take off the confirmation on that vacuum action - it is a non-data-changing actions and since it's background it won't lock the table, so all the confirmation will do is piss people off :) Nicola Soranzo wrote: Update of /cvsroot/phppgadmin/webdb/lang/recoded In directory sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net:/tmp/cvs-serv20372/lang/recoded Modified Files: english.php Log Message: Bugfix. Index: english.php === RCS file: /cvsroot/phppgadmin/webdb/lang/recoded/english.php,v retrieving revision 1.114 retrieving revision 1.115 diff -C2 -d -r1.114 -r1.115 *** english.php 25 Aug 2004 17:23:21 - 1.114 --- english.php 26 Aug 2004 14:59:11 - 1.115 *** *** 8,12 */ - $lang['strconfvacuumtable'] = 'Are you sure you want to vacuum %s?'; // Language and character set $lang['applang'] = 'English'; --- 8,11 *** *** 201,204 --- 200,204 $lang['strtabbed'] = 'Tabbed'; $lang['strauto'] = 'Auto'; + $lang['strconfvacuumtable'] = 'Are you sure you want to vacuum quot;%squot;?'; // Users --- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 ___ phpPgAdmin-cvs mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phppgadmin-cvs ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Win32 release warning
OK, release notes updated. --- Bruce Momjian wrote: OK, current text suggestion is: Although tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of years of use in production environments that PostgreSQL has on Unix platforms and therefore should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product. --- Andrew Dunstan wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tom Lane wrote: Rob Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That makes it sound as if you didn't do the same level of testing on *this* release, like it didn't go through all the tests or something. How about it does not have the extensive testing history that other supported platforms in this release have. Not bad, but it doesn't make the point that there's a lot of new platform-specific code for Windows in there. You want to point out not only that there's no history, but that there's new code to be suspicious of. Altho tested throughout our release cycle, the Windows port does not have the benefit of the years of testing that has gone into the Unix platforms, and, as such, should be treated with the same level of caution as you would a new product Not bad. I think I'd say ... does not have the benefit of years of use in production environments that PostgreSQL has on Unix platforms ... - I agree with Merlin that we shouldn't imply it hasn't been extensively tested. cheers andrew -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] contrib/start-scripts/linux on Debian
Thomas F.O'Connell wrote: I'd love to see a comment added to the linux start-script included in contrib that referenced update-rc.d. It's useful to note because Debian has different runlevels from Red Hat, and update-rc.d will intelligently do the same thing as chkconfig for Debian systems. Why not just include the Debian start script instead of asking to user to fix up the existing one? -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]