Hi,
Is there any way of checking to see if a particular shared library is
installed?
eg. select is_shared_library('$libdir/tsearch2');
If not, can we please have one :D
This will greatly help in GUI apps like phpPgAdmin...
Chris
---(end of
Is there any way of checking to see if a particular shared library is
installed?
eg. select is_shared_library('$libdir/tsearch2');
How well do you know the library you are looking for? You could just try
creating a function from it and seeing if it fails.
I know it pretty well, but it
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Christopher Kings-Lynne
Sent: 07 September 2005 09:03
To: PostgreSQL-development
Subject: [HACKERS] Testing for a shared library
Hi,
Is there any way of checking to see if a particular
-Original Message-
From: Christopher Kings-Lynne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07 September 2005 09:16
To: Dave Page
Cc: PostgreSQL-development
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Testing for a shared library
Is there any way of checking to see if a particular shared
library is
As you know, presence of shared library doesn't mean precense of module in db
:).
You can try selecting:
# select count(*) from pg_opclass where opcname = 'tsvector_ops';
or, more general,
# select count(*) from pg_proc where probin = '$libdir/tsearch2';
But not all modules adds new
No, I want to check that the shared library exists (eg. the slony
libraries) BEFORE executing the slony sql script that creates all the
objects.
Chris
Teodor Sigaev wrote:
As you know, presence of shared library doesn't mean precense of module
in db :).
You can try selecting:
# select
# create table foo ( bar int );
CREATE TABLE
# create or replace function func (int)
returns int as
$$
DECLARE
IID alias for $1;
CNT int;
BEGIN
select into CNT count(*) from foo where bar = IID;
RETURN CNT;
END;
$$
language plpgsql;
CREATE FUNCTION
#
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 02:48:00AM -, Andrew - Supernews wrote:
On 2005-09-06, Patrick Welche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now with:
test=# select '192.168.0.0/24'::inet + 1;
ERROR: Trying to increment a network (192.168.0.0/24) rather than a host
What possible justification is there
After reconnecting to database all is ok. Is it supposed behaviour?
Yes. The plpgsql interpreter in the backend directs the backend to
prepare and cache every sql statement in the function. The planned
statements reference oids of the tables referenced.
Dropping the connection gets rid of
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 03:51:05PM +0400, Teodor Sigaev wrote:
ERROR: relation with OID 16628 does not exist
CONTEXT: SQL statement SELECT count(*) from foo where bar = $1
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ.html#4.19
--
Michael Fuhr
---(end of
Patrick Welche wrote:
Comments anyone?
Is incrementing an inet address a valid thing to do, or is its
meaning too open to interpretation?
How about either a pair of functions, one for incrementing the
network and another for the host, or a combined function that allows
you to work with both
Thomas Hallgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I assume that the path of the shared library will be somehow relative to
the GUC dynamic_library_path?
Well, whatever you put in the template is what will be in the probin
field of the support functions. I suppose it does not *have* to use
$libdir,
Christopher Kings-Lynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is there any way of checking to see if a particular shared library is
installed?
Try to LOAD it, perhaps.
regards, tom lane
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget
Tom Lane wrote:
Thomas Hallgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I assume that the path of the shared library will be somehow relative to
the GUC dynamic_library_path?
Well, whatever you put in the template is what will be in the probin
field of the support functions. I suppose it does not
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-09-06 17:54:34 -0400:
There's a fair amount of nearly
unmaintained cruft in the core distro already (eg, the never-finished
line datatype ... or the entire rtree index module ...) and a datatype
that might be used by only a few people is a likely candidate to become
Thomas Hallgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wouldn't it be better if all PL's used the
dynamic_library_path setting at all times?
I wouldn't think so at all. That's just another way to shoot yourself
in the foot; $libdir is the correct place by definition, and any other
directory is not the
Nathan,
Take a look at the version 3 or version 5 UUIDs. They essentially do this.
The hash isn't reversable, but rather recreatable. Seems that if it
were reversable, it would be compression, not a hash. Anyway.
Hmmm, yes, true.
You're assuming though that you want to leak this
Nathan,
- linking against libuuid is fine for a contrib/ extension, but no
good for a built-in type. A real uuid would have to do a proper
independent implementation of uuid creation within pgsql.
Why?
I think the issue is portability. Remember that this type needs to work on
Windows
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 12:31:01AM -0500, Jim C. Nasby wrote:
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 07:02:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
Jim C. Nasby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If the 4 header fields in question were just normalized out, wouldn't
all the semantics continue to work the same? All I'm
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 09:45:17AM -0700, josh@agliodbs.com wrote:
I think the issue is portability. Remember that this type needs to work on
Windows as well as all POSIX platforms and AIX.
I had forgotten about windows. I'll see to what extent the library i'm
using is portable to windows.
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 01:05:52PM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
Anyway you are just moving the storage somewhere else -- instead of
having 4 fields in the tuple itself, you have one field which points
the same 4 fields elsewhere. I don't see how is that a win; it's
actually worse because you
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 01:20:27PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
Anyway the fundamental insight has been completely lost here. The
original point was that cmin and cmax are only interesting within the
originating transaction, and not to anyone else, and thus perhaps don't
need to be kept in
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 09:45:17AM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
Nathan wrote:
Quite a list. I wonder what readline is doing there.
Readline is for PSQL command completion and history. As for the rest, they
are *optional* modules that apparently your RPM builder chose to include; I
Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm curious to know how can you store the cmin/cmax pair completely out
of the tuple. It's easy to see how to store a single identifier in each
tuple that would be an index to a structure in local memory. However,
to eliminate both you'd have to keep
Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think this could be done with our SLRU mechanism, just like pg_clog,
pg_subtrans and pg_multixact do. Whether it's really a good idea or
not, it's another story. The problem is that you would be creating new
ones all the time, it would become a huge
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 09:48:08AM -0700, josh@agliodbs.com wrote:
That's good, it gives users options. And I can see why you don't want to
re-create the functionality in PG code, it's probably pretty large.
It would also be something else that would have to be maintained and
debugged.
On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 07:47 +, Oliver Jowett wrote:
Simon Riggs wrote:
Looking more closely, I don't think either is correct. Both can be reset
according to rewind operations - see DoPortalRewind().
We'd need to add another bool onto the Portal status data structure.
AFAIK this
Nathan,
I was thinking of cryptographic applications. Then, to use an
example from another domain, initial TCP sequence numbers should
be random (i.e. unguessable). A problem with TCP perhaps. It's
been a while since i've read over my copy of _Applied Cryptography_,
but I seem to recall
Hi, All.
Has anyone successfully built PostgreSQL from source using MinGW? Anyone have
step-by-step instructions on how to do this? I am willing to write the
documentation on this if I can just get it to work. :-)
I have done the following:
1. Install MinGW
a. Go to URL:
I have made a new version, and made a web page for it.
http://granicus.if.org/~nw/uuid/
Given the statement that it won't be accepted for contrib or core
unless it compiles on windows, I guess I won't really have anything
further to say on the topic. I don't have any way to compile on windows,
Have you read doc/FAQ_MINGW?
---
Lee, Patricia S. wrote:
Hi, All. ?
Has anyone successfully built PostgreSQL from source using MinGW?? Anyone
have step-by-step instructions on how to do this? I am willing to write
Thomas Hallgren wrote:
If my assumptions are correct, then please add:
{ java, true, sqlj.java_call_handler, NULL,
libpljava },
{ javaU, false, sqlj.javau_call_handler, NULL,
libpljava },
In the interest of uniformity, please rename your libraries to
please direct to -win32-hackers, -general, or -novice. take your pick. Also
please don't cc unless you have a reason to speak directly to that person.
anyways, install bison.
Merlin
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:pgsql-hackers-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com writes:
One of the differences between an add-in and core code is support for all
PostgreSQL platforms.
These days, things won't get into contrib either if they don't work on
all the buildfarm machines.
regards, tom lane
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What I'm trying to say here is that it might be OK to hardcode the
properties of core languages in the server, because considering that
the only officially supported way to activate those is
createlang (rather than using SQL), the properties of
nathan wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 09:45:17AM -0700, josh@agliodbs.com wrote:
How does it generate its machine identifier?
No idea. Does it matter? Not having to fret this kind of detail is
the advantage of using someone else's library.
It absolutely matters,
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The other problem I see emerging here is that in certain environments,
the java language may not be trusted, such as when it is compiled
with GCJ.
Hmm, is that really the case? I thought Java is Java.
Then, this built-in template will override
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 06:35:51PM +, nathan wagner wrote:
I have made a new version, and made a web page for it.
http://granicus.if.org/~nw/uuid/
Given the statement that it won't be accepted for contrib or core
unless it compiles on windows, I guess I won't really have anything
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 12:38:44AM -0500, Jim C. Nasby wrote:
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 08:22:34PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
PG 8.1 will have a function to return postmaster start time, but not
database reset time. I wonder if this is misdefined --- if you are
trying to measure database uptime,
Patrick Welche [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Still seems odd to me: I would expect psql to have readline, not postgres.
That's because we generate just one LIBS list and use it for all the
executables we build. Autoconf makes it a bit difficult to do
otherwise.
There is an option in the linux
I wrote:
Another note: PLs that are not in the core distribution are not
created with createlang in the first place, so the issues that led up
to this proposal don't apply AFAICT,
What I'm trying to say here is that it might be OK to hardcode the
properties of core languages in the server,
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
We are only talking about well-known procedural languages. The issue of
completely new languages added by the user is addressed by neither
proposal.
Sure it is: in my proposal, you can add new languages to the template
catalog. (Which admittedly
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Have you read doc/FAQ_MINGW?
---
Lee, Patricia S. wrote:
To be a little more helpful. Patricia everything you need is here:
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ_MINGW.html
Sincerely,
Joshua
Tom Lane wrote:
Barring further changes, we'll have a hard-wired template list for
8.1 and a real system catalog in 8.2. So there's a choice now for
PLs that are not part of the core distribution: do you want to be
listed in the hard-wired template?
Another note: PLs that are not in the core
Thjis is done all the time - see for example
http://www.pgbuildfarm.org/cgi-bin/show_history.pl?nm=goosebr=HEAD
At a minumum you will need to install the DTK and from recollection also
bison (must be 1.875) and flex (must be 2.5.4) from the gnuwin32 project
You don't need an extra make -
Nathan,
http://granicus.if.org/~nw/uuid/
Given the statement that it won't be accepted for contrib or core
unless it compiles on windows, I guess I won't really have anything
further to say on the topic. I don't have any way to compile on
windows, so it's not an obstacle I can readily
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 06:48:41PM +0100, Patrick Welche wrote:
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 09:45:17AM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
Nathan wrote:
Quite a list. I wonder what readline is doing there.
Readline is for PSQL command completion and history. As for the rest, they
are
On Sep 7, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Lee, Patricia S. wrote:
However, I cannot get the make to work. Do I still need to install
the GNU Make utility? Any suggestions?
LEEP ~/sources/PostgreSQL/postgresql-8.0.3
$ configure --prefix=/c/PostgreSQL/8.0.3
Try adding --without-zlib to your configure.
Tom Lane wrote:
How is this different from
1. register language in pg_language without privileges
2. activate language by granting privileges
Because you can't create a language without first creating the support
procedures, which ordinarily requires having the shared library
present.
On Sep 7, 2005, at 10:04 AM, nathan wagner wrote:
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 09:45:17AM -0700, josh@agliodbs.com wrote:
I think the issue is portability. Remember that this type needs
to work on
Windows as well as all POSIX platforms and AIX.
I had forgotten about windows. I'll see to
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Have you read doc/FAQ_MINGW?
---
Lee, Patricia S. wrote:
To be a little more helpful. Patricia everything you need is here:
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
This is a fairly recent 8.1, maybe post-beta1. Not sure what happened.
I certainly don't see the --as-needed in LDFLAGS:
$ pg_config | grep LDFLA
LDFLAGS = -Wl,-rpath,/pg/install/00orig/lib
LDFLAGS_SL =
It was removed because it was very badly broken.
cheers
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 11:31:16AM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
I'm also a little baffled to come up with any real application where making
an id number for most tables unguessable would provide any kind of real
protection not far better provided by other means. For your users
table, sure,
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ_MINGW.html
That information is not adequate in my experience, and needs to be
expanded. See my previous email for more details.
It is adequate for building sources downloaded from ftp (you don't need
bison, flex, DTK for
Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is a fairly recent 8.1, maybe post-beta1. Not sure what happened.
This:
2005-05-07 01:48 neilc
* configure, configure.in: Revert the ld --as-needed patch. This
breaks Fedora Core 3, due to a strange interaction between ld,
pg_config doesn't currently seem to have an option to report the
share_dir. Should it?
cheers
andrew
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Petr Jelinek wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ_MINGW.html
That information is not adequate in my experience, and needs to be
expanded. See my previous email for more details.
It is adequate for building sources downloaded from ftp (you don't
need
Tom Lane wrote:
These are straw men.
No, these are real problems that exist today.
We know we have a problem with hard-coded paths
in old dumps.
This is irrelevant for non-core languages. If I have PL/foo 1.0
installed and upgrade from PostgreSQL 8.0 to 8.1, then I have to
manually
Tom Lane wrote:
But it's exactly the same hole the user would create by manually
saying CREATE TRUSTED LANGUAGE in error. I don't think that's a
reasonable argument against the template idea --- it just says that
you have to be aware of what you're doing.
(An appropriate solution, in my
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Tom Lane wrote:
We know we have a problem with hard-coded paths
in old dumps.
This is irrelevant for non-core languages. If I have PL/foo 1.0
installed and upgrade from PostgreSQL 8.0 to 8.1, then I have to
manually recompile PL/foo and install
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
pg_config doesn't currently seem to have an option to report the
share_dir. Should it?
Is there a case where a user would need anything from there?
--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
---(end of
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
pg_config doesn't currently seem to have an option to report the
share_dir. Should it?
Is there a case where a user would need anything from there?
Why would they need pkglibdir either? I was asked about this by an
author who
Tom Lane wrote:
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The other problem I see emerging here is that in certain environments,
the java language may not be trusted, such as when it is compiled
with GCJ.
Well, yes. But use the word environment in singular please :-) To my
knowledge
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The case in reality is this: First of all, the language name java is
fixed by the SQL standard, so we ought to allow alternative
implementations to use that name. I'm not sure what kind of interface
the PL/J people are working on, but if they
One regular topic of conversation on IRC and elsewhere is that the
settings initdb installs especially for memory use, connections, and so
on, are often very conservative. Of course, we tell people how to tune
them to some extent, although performance tuning seems to remain a black
art. But
Thomas Hallgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
GCJ is a clean house implementation of Java. They don't use the runtime
libraries from Sun and they are not really there yet in their efforts to
copy the functionality. One of the things that lag behind is security.
They hope to have a better
Tom Lane wrote:
Now this certainly discriminates against installing PLs outside
$libdir, but I haven't heard any good reason why people would need to
do that.
Development, testing, staging, ...
If I have PL/foo 1.0
installed and upgrade from PostgreSQL 8.0 to 8.1, the validator in
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Tom Lane wrote:
In any case, not one of these arguments seems to me to favor the
alternative of preloading definitions into pg_language:
That is not the alternative I am proposing. Your template idea,
hard-coded even, is just fine for core
Thomas Hallgren wrote:
Well, yes. But use the word environment in singular please :-) To my
knowledge the security is full-proof with all other VM's since they
all use the standard runtime libraries.
It's not quite as simple as that. There are a bunch of VMs and a bunch
of libraries (and a
Tom Lane wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting that it's a good idea for the single
language name java to mean different things at different
installations? I can't believe that that wouldn't lead to chaos.
There is a standard for the SQL integration of a java language, and I
don't see why
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Why would they need pkglibdir either?
To determine what $libdir resolves to.
I was asked about this by an
author who wanted to use it to find where to put module config/setup
scripts.
Probably not in PostgreSQL's data directory, but his own.
--
Peter Eisentraut
Tom Lane wrote:
(What the PL template approach *would* do is make it difficult to
create a language that is trusted but named pljavau, or untrusted and
named pljava.
But the latter is exactly what I would like to do.
Personally I don't see that as a bad thing, however.
The opportunity for
On Wednesday 07 September 2005 15:52, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
pg_config doesn't currently seem to have an option to report the
share_dir. Should it?
Is there a case where a user would need anything from there?
the way wo do this in slony is with
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
But I wondered if it might not be a good idea to allow
an option to initdb which would provide a greater possible range of
settings for max_connections, shared_buffers and so on. For example,
we might offer a profile which is very conservative for memory bound
That
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Tom Lane wrote:
In any case, java has not been put forward as one of the template
entries, and as long as we don't accept a template for it, we have
not made the situation any worse.
Hmm, Thomas Hallgren sent in a template using java as name and you
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
pg_config doesn't currently seem to have an option to report the
share_dir. Should it?
Is there a case where a user would need anything from there?
pg_config serves a function of recording the configuration, so I tend
to agree
Tom Lane wrote:
pg_config serves a function of recording the configuration,
pg_config was meant (as opposed to serves) to provide information that
is of use for building third-party things. Hence includedir, libdir
for building, pkglibdir for installing. The option --configure records
the
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
All jokes aside, tuning aids are surely needed, but letting initdb guess
the required profile isn't going to do it.
initdb is really the wrong place for this anyway, because in many
situations (RPM installations for instance) initdb is run behind the
Darcy Buskermolen wrote:
On Wednesday 07 September 2005 15:52, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
pg_config doesn't currently seem to have an option to report the
share_dir. Should it?
Is there a case where a user would need
I have been writing a PQ client and I have come to think that a
supported PQ versions request startup packet would be useful to client
authors. That is, sending a StartupPacket(Version(0, 0))(or whatever)
would return a message containing a list of supported PQ versions, and
maybe the server
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Now this certainly discriminates against installing PLs outside $libdir,
but I haven't heard any good reason why people would need to do that.
Well one example would be distributions that package up some PLs but want to
allow you to install some on your own.
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
The idea was in fact to allow the user to provide additional
information to allow initdb to make better guesses than it currently
does.
There's certainly going to be opposition to making initdb an interactive
tool.
The other problem is that no one has ever managed to
James William Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I have been writing a PQ client and I have come to think that a
supported PQ versions request startup packet would be useful to client
authors.
Given that it'd be guaranteed not to work with any existing server
versions, I find the usefulness a bit
James William Pye wrote:
I have been writing a PQ client and I have come to think that a
supported PQ versions request startup packet would be useful to
client authors. That is, sending a StartupPacket(Version(0, 0))(or
whatever) would return a message containing a list of supported PQ
What I would like to see is that initdb would end with saying that the
system is not really tuned and that I should run pg-some-program to
improve that. pg-some-program would analyze my system, ask me a few
questions, and then output a suggested configuration (or apply it right
away).
Joshua D. Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What I would like to see is that initdb would end with saying that the
system is not really tuned and that I should run pg-some-program to
improve that.
Perhaps at the end of initdb it would say would you like
to run the PostgreSQL configuration
Greg Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm not sure how that relates to the template work you're
discussing. Are all of the templates you're creating for components
that are built out of core and therefore can be expected to be
packaged?
Well, that's exactly the point Peter is arguing: he
Tom Lane wrote:
Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I accept the run from init.d argument. So then, is there a case for
increasing the limits that initdb works with, to reflect the steep rise
we have seen in typically available memory at the low end?
I can't see any
Why do you need access to postgresql.conf.sample?
--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There is a compromise that I think we cannot make. For production
deployment, shared buffers are typically sized at about 10% to 25% of
available phyiscal memory. I don't think we want to have a default
installation of PostgreSQL that takes 10%
On Thu, 2005-09-08 at 03:48 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
This doesn't make sense to me, because a server does not have any
version requirements on the client (aside from the protocol versions,
which are negotiated automatically).
The use case primarily applies to custom clients(non-libpq,
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
I accept the run from init.d argument. So then, is there a case for
increasing the limits that initdb works with, to reflect the steep
rise we have seen in typically available memory at the low end?
There is a compromise that I think we
Michael Fuhr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 18:39:26 -0300 (ADT), Tom Lane wrote:
Update timezone data files to release 2005m of the zic database.
Among other changes, this reflects the recently passed change in USA
daylight savings rules.
Looks like some horology tests
James William Pye wrote:
The use case primarily applies to custom clients(non-libpq, atm) that
support multiple PQ versions that may be implemented in separate
modules/libraries. (Avoid loading client-2.0 code for a 3.0 connection,
and/or future versions.)
libpq automatically negotiates
heuristics that initdb could apply. We'd have to let all of these
degrade nicely, so that even if the user select the machine hog setting,
if we find we can only do something like the tiny setting that's what
s/he would get. Also, we might need to have some tolerably portable way
of finding
On Wed, 2005-09-07 at 22:02 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
Given that it'd be guaranteed not to work with any existing server
versions, I find the usefulness a bit debatable...
Indeed =(. However, older servers could be easily detected then if the
returned message type is 'E'. If 'E' is returned, it
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