Guillaume Lelarge írta:
Le 15/07/2010 17:48, Joshua D. Drake a écrit :
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 16:20 +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 11:05 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
Simon Riggs si...@2ndquadrant.com writes:
The biggest turn off that most people
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Boszormenyi Zoltan z...@cybertec.at wrote:
I think it's related to making this work:
SELECT * FROM db.schema.table;
Which is a non-starter, I think. Every function in the system that
thinks an OID uniquely identifies a database object would need to
modified,
Robert Haas wrote:
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Robert Haas wrote:
I'd like to be able to list comments on objects of a particular type.
And, yeah, I'd like to be able to list all the aggregates that take a
numeric argument, or all the functions
On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 17:42 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Robert Haas wrote:
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Robert Haas wrote:
I'd like to be able to list comments on objects of a particular type.
And, yeah, I'd like to be able to list all the
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Sorry for the late reply. If we are going to end up recreating SQL, we
might as well just keep the backslash mess we have, or tell them to use
SQL for the complex queries. My point was that we might find that what
we cook
Kevin Grittner wrote:
Stefan Kaltenbrunner ste...@kaltenbrunner.cc wrote:
On 07/18/2010 08:58 PM, Andres Freund wrote:
I am quite a bit surprised about all this discussion. I have a
very hard time we will find anything people agree about and can
remember well enough to be usefull for
Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Kevin Grittner wrote:
I can't picture anything which could be done with views which
would allow me to issue one statement and see everything of
interest about a table (etc.). You know: tablespace, owner,
permissions, columns, primary key, foreign keys,
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1. \d isn't exactly the most intuitive thing ever
Seems fairly mnemomic to me (d=describe) and it packs a
*lot* of information into a single letter (see below).
Things that are done often should have short keystrokes,
and not require
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Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
I think LIST COMMENTS ON SYSTEM AGGREGATES would be an epic
step forward in usability.
Perhaps. But it would behoove you to come up with a less er...
arcane example. I've been using Postgres a long
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Kevin Grittner wrote:
Any solution which only works within psql isn't a solution for a
large part of the problem space people are trying to address. One
important goal is that if someone spends a day to whip up a GUI
query tool (as I did
Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote:
You think that the users of the libpq() interface (or even the
protocol itself) are going to handle getting \dt-type output back
somehow..?
If you look back in the thread, you'll see that I admitted my
ignorance of whether this could be properly
* Kevin Grittner (kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov) wrote:
I know, though, that the JDBC spec supports such things -- you can
keep pulling ResultSet objects off the wire, each with its own
distinct set of columns. (That is, each ResultSet has its own
ResultSetMetaData which specifies how many
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com wrote:
in the alphabet soup paragraph above. I don't think there's
anything WRONG with letting \dFp show text search dictionaries and
\dfwS+ list system window functions with additional detail - but I'd
like an
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 02:12:19PM -, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
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1. \d isn't exactly the most intuitive thing ever
Seems fairly mnemomic to me (d=describe) and it packs a
*lot* of information into a single letter (see below).
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 10:23 -0700, David Fetter wrote:
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 02:12:19PM -, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
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1. \d isn't exactly the most intuitive thing ever
Seems fairly mnemomic to me (d=describe) and it
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David Fetter wrote:
No arguments there, but that's the nature of the beast. I don't
think it's as bad as is made out, however, as \d covers 99% of
everyday usage and certainly the show tables that started
this thread.
It covers 0% of
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 09:31:06AM -0500, Kevin Grittner wrote:
Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote:
You think that the users of the libpq() interface (or even the
protocol itself) are going to handle getting \dt-type output back
somehow..?
If you look back in the thread, you'll
David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote:
Would something like this do? Thanks to Andrew Gierth for helping
me figure out how to get this working :)
CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION multi_result()
RETURNS SETOF REFCURSOR
With appropriate tweaks to JDBC and the other drivers, this would
cover a lot
Hi,
Le 18 juil. 2010 à 05:41, Robert Haas a écrit :
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
I am concerned that implementing a command syntax to show complex output
like above effectively means re-implementing a subset of SQL, and that
subset will never be as
On Sunday 18 July 2010 20:39:07 Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
SHOW ANY TABLE
GROUP BY tablename
HAVING array_agg(attributes) @ array['date'::regtype, 'time'::regtype];
Why is that in *any* way better than
SELECT *
FROM meta.tables
...
Oh. The second looks like something I know. Oh. My editor
Dimitri Fontaine dfonta...@hi-media.com wrote:
So what we'd need first is a series of named queries, which I
think psql provides for.
Any solution which only works within psql isn't a solution for a
large part of the problem space people are trying to address. One
important goal is that if
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote:
On Sunday 18 July 2010 20:39:07 Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
SHOW ANY TABLE
GROUP BY tablename
HAVING array_agg(attributes) @ array['date'::regtype, 'time'::regtype];
Why is that in *any* way better than
SELECT *
FROM
On 07/18/2010 08:58 PM, Andres Freund wrote:
On Sunday 18 July 2010 20:39:07 Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
SHOW ANY TABLE
GROUP BY tablename
HAVING array_agg(attributes) @ array['date'::regtype, 'time'::regtype];
Why is that in *any* way better than
SELECT *
FROM meta.tables
...
Oh. The second
Hi,
On Sunday 18 July 2010 21:02:59 Rob Wultsch wrote:
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote:
On Sunday 18 July 2010 20:39:07 Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
SHOW ANY TABLE
GROUP BY tablename
HAVING array_agg(attributes) @ array['date'::regtype,
Stefan Kaltenbrunner ste...@kaltenbrunner.cc wrote:
On 07/18/2010 08:58 PM, Andres Freund wrote:
I am quite a bit surprised about all this discussion. I have a
very hard time we will find anything people agree about and can
remember well enough to be usefull for both manual and automatic
Le 18 juil. 2010 à 21:00, Kevin Grittner a écrit :
Dimitri Fontaine dfonta...@hi-media.com wrote:
So what we'd need first is a series of named queries, which I
think psql provides for.
Any solution which only works within psql isn't a solution for a
large part of the problem space people
Le 18 juil. 2010 à 20:58, Andres Freund a écrit :
On Sunday 18 July 2010 20:39:07 Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
SHOW ANY TABLE
GROUP BY tablename
HAVING array_agg(attributes) @ array['date'::regtype, 'time'::regtype];
Why is that in *any* way better than
SELECT *
FROM meta.tables
...
There
Le 18 juil. 2010 à 21:21, Andres Freund a écrit :
Providing an easy wrapper is something I could agree without much problems
(as
it doesnt touch me). But starting several new toplevel commands which do not
give everything (i.e. the ability to selectively use columns) but still want
to
On Sun, 2010-07-18 at 20:39 +0200, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
SHOW TABLE foo;
Yes
SHOW TABLES WHERE tablename ~ 'foo';
SHOW ANY TABLE
GROUP BY tablename
HAVING array_agg(attributes) @ array['date'::regtype,
'time'::regtype];
For me, realistically, No.
Simplifying SQL should be left
On 07/18/2010 09:00 PM, Kevin Grittner wrote:
Dimitri Fontainedfonta...@hi-media.com wrote:
So what we'd need first is a series of named queries, which I
think psql provides for.
Any solution which only works within psql isn't a solution for a
large part of the problem space people are
Hi Kevin,
On Sunday 18 July 2010 21:24:25 Kevin Grittner wrote:
Stefan Kaltenbrunner ste...@kaltenbrunner.cc wrote:
On 07/18/2010 08:58 PM, Andres Freund wrote:
I am quite a bit surprised about all this discussion. I have a
very hard time we will find anything people agree about and can
Kevin,
* Kevin Grittner (kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov) wrote:
I can't picture anything which could be done with views which would
allow me to issue one statement and see everything of interest about
a table (etc.). You know: tablespace, owner, permissions, columns,
primary key, foreign keys,
On Jul 16, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote:
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
Why must the backslash commands be more powerful than any alternative
we might come up with?
Because they encode alot of information in a character- something which
is next to
Tim Landscheidt t...@tim-landscheidt.de wrote:
One major flaw I see is that the fractional precision is
fixed. Not only petrol stations split cents.
Well, I've never paid a petrol station a fraction of a cent; I've
only seen *rates* of money per some unit of measure with fractional
cents.
On Sat, 2010-07-17 at 09:02 -0500, Robert Haas wrote:
On Jul 16, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote:
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
Why must the backslash commands be more powerful than any alternative
we might come up with?
Because they encode alot
2010/7/17 Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com:
On Sat, 2010-07-17 at 09:02 -0500, Robert Haas wrote:
On Jul 16, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote:
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
Why must the backslash commands be more powerful than any alternative
On 07/17/2010 04:02 PM, Robert Haas wrote:
On Jul 16, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Stephen Frostsfr...@snowman.net wrote:
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
Why must the backslash commands be more powerful than any alternative
we might come up with?
Because they encode alot of information
On Sat, 2010-07-17 at 23:30 +0200, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
On 07/17/2010 04:02 PM, Robert Haas wrote:
On Jul 16, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Stephen Frostsfr...@snowman.net wrote:
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
Why must the backslash commands be more powerful than any alternative
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner
ste...@kaltenbrunner.cc wrote:
On 07/17/2010 04:02 PM, Robert Haas wrote:
On Jul 16, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Stephen Frostsfr...@snowman.net wrote:
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
Why must the backslash commands be more powerful
Robert Haas wrote:
I'd like to be able to list comments on objects of a particular type.
And, yeah, I'd like to be able to list all the aggregates that take a
numeric argument, or all the functions that take, say, an argument of
type internal. Right now, this is an ENORMOUS pain in the neck.
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Robert Haas wrote:
I'd like to be able to list comments on objects of a particular type.
And, yeah, I'd like to be able to list all the aggregates that take a
numeric argument, or all the functions that take, say, an
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 21:57 -0400, Robert Haas wrote:
Exactly which commands are we going to support? With exactly what
syntax? What information will be returned by each command? In what
format? We have no agreement on any of these points.
The normal process is that we discuss the
On Jul 15, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 18:35, Simon Riggs si...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 17:38 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
Is there an actual common use-case for having these commands available
for *non-psql* interfaces?
There
On Jul 15, 2010, at 11:18 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote:
I think it's very important, as Haas says, to consider that whatever we
do in this arena, we'll be living with it forever, so let's not make the
\dv vs. \df mistake again, ok?
Refresh my memory?
...Robert
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I have to agree with Simon here. \d is ridiculous for the common user.
+1
Regards
Markus
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Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so what non-psql interactive terminal programs are
there?
I think your assumption is
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so what non-psql interactive terminal programs are
there?
2010/7/16 Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so what non-psql interactive terminal programs are
there?
On 16 July 2010 13:49, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so what
On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 14:07 +0100, Thom Brown wrote:
The problem is people are stating different requirements.
- to make it easy for new users of psql
- to simplify fetching basic database information from any client application
- to ease transition between MySQL and PostgreSQL
Close, but
On Jul 16, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Simon Riggs wrote:
On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 14:07 +0100, Thom Brown wrote:
The problem is people are stating different requirements.
- to make it easy for new users of psql
- to simplify fetching basic database information from any client application
- to ease
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 15:38 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so what non-psql interactive terminal programs
are there?
My original thought was around the
Simon Riggs wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 15:38 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so what non-psql interactive terminal programs
are there?
My
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:44:58AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Simon Riggs wrote:
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 15:38 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bruce Momjian wrote:
There are many tools that can access Postgres. Some are libpq programs,
though there are command line versions in every environment: java,
python, etc..
Yeah, but do enough people use them to warrant putting this in the
backend?
I may have lost the
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bruce Momjian wrote:
There are many tools that can access Postgres. Some are libpq programs,
though there are command line versions in every environment: java,
python, etc..
Yeah, but do enough people use them to warrant putting this in the
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:04:01PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bruce Momjian wrote:
There are many tools that can access Postgres. Some are libpq programs,
though there are command line versions in every environment: java,
python, etc..
On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:09 AM, David Fetter wrote:
Clarification, do enough people use non-psql command line tools to
warrant putting this in the backend?
Yes. Such backend stuff is in every RDBMS except ours.
I admit that I had to do a *lot* of work to write the schema-testing functions
David Fetter wrote:
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:04:01PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bruce Momjian wrote:
There are many tools that can access Postgres. Some are libpq programs,
though there are command line versions in every
On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 12:16 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Really? What are the other syntaxes?
SHOW TABLES
--
Simon Riggs www.2ndQuadrant.com
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training and Services
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To make
* Simon Riggs si...@2ndquadrant.com [100716 12:24]:
On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 12:16 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Really? What are the other syntaxes?
SHOW TABLES
Obviously, only for some $value of $other...
The 3 database I have access to:
[DataDirect][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL
Simon Riggs wrote:
On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 12:16 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Really? What are the other syntaxes?
SHOW TABLES
That is MySQL? Do does every other RDBMs also use that, as David
suggested?
--
Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.ushttp://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB
Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
What are the other syntaxes?
For Sybase ASE sp_help and other stored procedures, see:
http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.sybase.infocenter.dc36273.1550/html/sprocs/X85190.htm
Like \d, these server-side stored procedures can return
On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 12:25 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Simon Riggs wrote:
On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 12:16 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Really? What are the other syntaxes?
SHOW TABLES
That is MySQL? Do does every other RDBMs also use that, as David
suggested?
He didn't say it was
On Jul 16, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I assume SHOW TABLES would only be useful for interactive terminal
sesssions, not for application code (which should use
information_schema), so what non-psql interactive terminal
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote:
For committers.
Perhaps this discussions should be moved to the General list in order
to poll the userbase.
My .02 is that SHOW commands (even if they are not compatible) would
make it much easier for me to make an
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Simon Riggs wrote:
SQLServer and Sybase use sp_ procedures for this
Haven't experienced Sybase for 2 years in my last job, I can tell you that
the sp_* commands are definitely non-intuitive :(
Marc G. FournierHub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A.
si...@2ndquadrant.com (Simon Riggs) writes:
Just for the record, I've never ever met anyone that said Oh, this
\d syntax makes so much sense. I'm a real convert to Postgres now
you've shown me this. The reaction is always the opposite one;
always negative. Which detracts from our efforts
Marc G. Fournier scra...@hub.org wrote:
Haven't experienced Sybase for 2 years in my last job, I can tell
you that the sp_* commands are definitely non-intuitive :(
In general, I'd agree; although I think I got used to them about as
fast as the PostgreSQL backslash commands. In the
Chris Browne wrote:
- I'd sure like to be able to write queries that *don't* involve
array smashing or using grep on \z output to analyze object
permissions.
The \z output is an embarrassment, no question about it in my mind.
--
Bruce Momjian br...@momjian.us
On 16/07/10 20:11, Rob Wultsch wrote:
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Robert Haasrobertmh...@gmail.com wrote:
For committers.
Perhaps this discussions should be moved to the General list in order
to poll the userbase.
My .02 is that SHOW commands (even if they are not compatible) would