this value higher will help smooth response times during the period
immediately following each checkpoint. That seems to match what I found
in testing.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
SGI warns about from happening; Hitachi's
Feature Tool at http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm is
one example I've used successfully before.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
position to fix it myself now. I just
wanted to report the issue and get some initial feedback on what's wrong.
I'll try to rewrite that code with an eye toward the Determine optimal
fdatasync/fsync, O_SYNC/O_DSYNC options to-do item, which is what I'd
really like to have.
--
* Greg Smith
it down, and you'd get much scarier messages out of smartd
if the drives had a real problem. You should improve cooling in this case
if you want to drives to have a healthy life, odds are low this is
relevant to your performance issue though.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
00:01:03 EST 2005)
megaraid: 2.20.4.6-rh2 (Release Date: Wed Jun 28 12:27:22 EST 2006)
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
what you get from a single disk, because you may have
to wait for multiple discs to spin to the correct position and write data
out before you can consider the transaction complete.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end
(there are certainly two sides with valid points in
that debate), to make them more compatible with flow-impaired clients, you
can't expect that mail composition software is sophisticated enough to
allow doing that for one section while still wrapping the rest of the text
correctly.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL
seeing, expecially when combined with a 20% greater raw CPU clock.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs
will
shift which optimizations are useful and which have minimal impact even if
the processor is basically the same.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your
that comes with
current Postgres 8.1 versions.
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
of performance.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
as soon as the number of
transactions increases. With little or no actual disk writes, you should
expect results to be ranked by CPU speed.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9
/core systems.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
the same thing and have been meaning to figure out what the
cause is. It's just doing a select in there; it's not even in a begin/end
block.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9
) into the mix people test. That one may
stack usefully with -O2, but probably not with -O3 (3 includes
optimizations that increase code size).
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't
)
FROM tmpMessages took a really long time before psql died with an
out-of-memory error.
Do you have the exact text of the error? I suspect you're falling victim
to the default parameters being far too low here as well, but without the
error it's hard to know exactly which.
--
* Greg Smith
the current line in the CVS tree for 8.3:
write_timeout.it_value.tv_usec = (PGSTAT_STAT_INTERVAL % 1000) * 1000;
That's all it took to resolve things for me.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
this happens.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your
processors produce massively more heat than those of even a few
years ago has contributed to drive manufacturers moving their specs
upwards as well.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
so brazen as to turn off fsync.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
these problems.
If the key is a integer, it's always possible to figure out a trivial map
that renumbers the entire database programmatically in order to merge two
sets of data.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
information at the time. The funny thing about unexpected
changes to a business model is that you never expect them.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner
that to 30, restart the server, and
rebuild the index to see how much the 1GB case speeds up. If it's
significantly faster (it should be), try the 5GB one again.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007, Scott Marlowe wrote:
I honestly kinda wondered if the original post came out of a time warp,
like some mail relay somewhere held onto it for 4 years or something.
That wouldn't be out of the question if this system is also his mail
server.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL
is being
measured usefully at all via pgbench.
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your
to be.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
been running under load for a
while, and make your recommendations based on all that information.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project
comparison of PostgreSQL with robust WAL vs. MySQL+MyISAM on
write-heavy worksloads
These are real issues, which of course stack on top of things like
outdated opinions from older PG releases with performance issues resolved
in the last few years.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
myself for a second, it may very well be the case that
writing the simpler tool is the only way to get a useful prototype for
building the more complicated one; very easy to get bogged down in feature
creep on a grand design otherwise.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com
data. You would thing there would be an organized project
addressing this need around to keep everyone from reinventing that wheel,
but I'm not aware of one.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
can work with.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your
environment I work in, because
there really is no thought of security whatsoever in the whole thing.
What I'm still thinking about is whether it's possible to fix that issue
while still keeping the essential simplicity that makes Munin so friendly.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
less useful results for predicting PostgreSQL
performance than what you can find out running a real query.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ
Debian software repository.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's
between the two. So someone who installs CentOS now could swap
to RHEL very quickly in a pinch if they have enough cojones to do the
required package substitutions.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
hardware support. The fact that he misunderstands such a
fundamental point makes me wonder what other gigantic mistakes might be
buried in his analysis.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
will make more sense, and you'll be in a
better position to figure out what you should do next:
http://www.westnet.com/~gsmith/content/postgresql/TuningPGWAL.htm
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
pass unless you're in a position to run some good tests to confirm you're
not actually making things worse.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives
, but may be useful anyway so I've posted what I've got so
far.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
straightforward way to cope with this problem.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
back in and see how it degrades. Then you'll know how adding each
one of them impacts your performance. I suspect you're going to have to
redesign your indexing scheme before this is over. I don't think your
current design is ever going to work the way you expect it to.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL
that you're satisfied with how nice has
worked successfully for you doesn't have to conflict with an opinion that
it's not the best approach for controlling vacuuming. I just wouldn't
extrapolate your experience too far here.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
to
know on this subject if you're like to read more about it--and you really,
really should if you intend to put important data into a PostgreSQL
database.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
that have good controllers). One of these
days...
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command
that for a week, if it's still running your data should be
safe under real conditions.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project by donating
/papers/soft_errors_1_1_secure.pdf
which is a summary of many other people's papers, and quite informative.
I know I had no idea before reading it how much error rates go up with
increasing altitute.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
more upward tweaking of your kernel parameters to
support.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
for checkpoint_settings is at the default, that
would be a killer with your workload as well.
That should get you started. If you still aren't happy with performance
after all that, post again with some details about your disk configuration
and an EXPLAIN plan for something that's moving slowly.
--
* Greg Smith
likely to help here.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
else needs to be done. See
http://www.westnet.com/~gsmith/content/postgresql/pg-5minute.htm for more
information on this topic.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you
you know what you're playing with, there are some recovery implications
invoved.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire
a good value to set for everything before releasing a
beta, it's a lot easier for others to come in and help fix a couple of
parameters once the basic framework is in place.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
do any of the text-mode browsers implement javascript?
http://links.twibright.com/
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you
beyond that to having it pick the optimal parameters
more automatically would take AI much stronger than just a genetic
algorithm approach.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6
Lance is
building. The kind of optimizations you'd do based on that are just too
complicated to expect a tool to get them right and still be accessible to
a novice.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
into a setting for that parameter right now based on memory in their
system, but I never see anybody going since your main table is X GB
large, and its index is Y GB, you really need enough memory to set
effective_cache_size to Z GB if you want queries/joins on that table to
perform well.
--
* Greg
isn't completely sure what to do with effective_cache_size either.
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org
when I could see this:
$ cat postgresql.conf | grep brain
# - Super-brain Query Optimizer -
sbqo = on # Enables the super-brain
sbqo_reconsider_interval = 5s # How often to update plans
sbqo_brain_size = friggin_huge # Possible values are wee, not_so_wee, and
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL
that tricks like that
are becoming marginal. Pushing more work toward the OS is a completely
viable design choice that strengthens every year.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Scott Marlowe wrote:
And if they've gone to the trouble of implementing RAID-6, they're
usually at least halfway decent controllers.
Unfortunately the existance of the RAID-6 capable Adaptec 2820SA proves
this isn't always the case.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
to get a first generation one that works fairly well before
getting distracted at all by things like this. The people capable of
filling out the intermediate/advanced settings can probably just do a bit
of reading and figure out most of what they should be doing themselves.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL
to the parameter documentation
section.
I think that anyone who has been working with the software long to know
what should go into such a section has kind of forgotten about this part
of the documentation by the time they get there. It is an oversight and
yours is an excellent suggestion.
--
* Greg Smith
to
real application data as you can get in order to make good forward
progress.
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http
variables set
to reasonable values. Trying to satisfy every possible user is the path
that leads to a design so complicated that it's unlikely you'll ever get a
finished build done at all.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end
would come out of how the current sample is asking
about read vs. write workloads and expected database size. Those simple
to understand questions might capture enough of the difference between
your two types here.
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
out of a different type
of tool that connects to the database.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org
-5minute.htm for a
quick intro to things to consider.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
), and see if the problem stops happening as
frequently. Your problem looks exactly like a pause at every checkpoint,
and I'm not sure what Richard was thinking when he suggested having them
more often would improve things.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
is really spread out, you may find my paper at
http://www.westnet.com/~gsmith/content/linux-pdflush.htm a good place to
start looking into that.
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9
in the database server storage array, while the PostgreSQL one had
15K RPM ones. A few other small differences as well if you dig into the
configurations, all of which I noted favored the PG system.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
a fairly short
downtime operation. If you don't reach a wall, the extra drives might
serve as spares to help mitigate concerns about the WAL drives burning out
faster than average because of their high write volume.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
or for troubleshooting isolation you could always
get any data you needed off any 4-disk set with either controller. The
little 2-disk unit is providing no such redundancy.
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* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
trying to
separate out the WAL. If you expected hundreds of updates per second,
that's where you need to start thinking about a separate WAL disk, and
even then with 8 disks to spread the load out and a good caching
controller you might still be fine.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
of indexes factor into
things--just add the width of the index in bytes to the size of the
record, or is it worse than that?
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget
significantly if you're not very
systematic about testing it many times at various client counts.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore
this parameter.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
productive speculating about the
cause here will be until there's a test script available so other people
can see where the tipping point is on their system.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
a PG database, but the code
is very immature. Last time I tried there were plenty of crashes and
there seemed to be some transaction wrapping issues that caused deadlocks
with some tests.]
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
now. Every dollar spent on
work to quantify that early will easily pay for itself in helping guide
your purchase and future plans; that's what I'd be bringing in people in
right now to do if I were you, if that's not something you're already
familiar with measuring.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL
team for the upcoming 8.3 beta. Probably more productive
use of your time than going crazy trying to fix the issue in 8.2.4.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched
, in earlier versions that didn't happen.
The test I'd like to see more people run is to simulate their workloads
with checkpoint_completion_target set to 0.5, 0.7, and 0.9 and see how
each of those settings works relative to the 8.2 behavior.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
how to
add manpower to it usefully.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
into an area where your support situation is fuzzy just to save
that money.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http
of those situations, then perhaps the salesman's claim
could have some merit. There are lots of reasons one might want to use a
SAN, but a higher I/O rate when fairly comparing to connecting disks
directly is unlikely to be on that list.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com
On Sat, 8 Sep 2007, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
You would have to have lightning handed by God to your server to have a
total power failure without proper shutdown in the above scenario.
Do you live somewhere without thunderstorms? This is a regular event in
this part of the world during the
going to need a database-specific benchmark before there's useful
data for your case. Yesterday's meta-coverage at Ars was a nice summary
of the current state of things:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070910-barcelonas-out-and-the-reviews-are-out.html
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
the data, but if
I'm watching it I always use dstat now.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
may make more sense.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
when I want
a better idea what's going on. As good of an article on this topic as
I've found is http://gentoo-wiki.com/FAQ_Linux_Memory_Management which
recommends using free to clarify how big the disk cache really is.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
suggested at
http://www.westnet.com/~gsmith/content/postgresql/pg-disktesting.htm and
see how your results compare to the single SATA disk example I give there.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
see what I mean.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
sins are committed in the name of efficiency (without
necessarily achieving it) than for any other single reason - including
blind stupidity. That was back in 1972. Both his and Knuth's papers
centered on abusing GOTO, which typically justified at the time via
performance concerns.
--
* Greg
are weakest relative to what's normally in
a server-class system.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project by donating
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
On Fri, 9 Nov 2007, Sebastian Hennebrueder wrote:
If the queries are complex, this is understable.
The queries used for this comparison are trivial. There's only one table
involved and there are no joins. It's testing very low-level aspects of
performance.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL
). On a real
server, I'd suggest being more worried about how good the disk controller
is, what the expansion options are there, and relative $/core. In the
x86/x64 realm, I don't feel CPU architecture is a huge issue right now
when you're running a database.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
. And I cannot upgrade the
libraries without damaging other programs.
You're also right that this is tricky. I've written a guide that goes
over the main issues involved at
http://www.westnet.com/~gsmith/content/postgresql/pgrpm.htm if you ever
wanted to explore this as an option.
--
* Greg
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