Re: Re[4]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
At 05:07 PM 12/5/2001 +0200, Andrey Hristov wrote: I don't think that If I wrote an extension it will go into the public because the rights on it are owned by the university I study. It will never be GPLed if not rewritten after I get the degree. You can ask for permission to put it in the public domain. You'll find that your professor will most likely agree. Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Boian Bonev wrote: hi Daniel, when I look at /ext/ (PHP source) just to pick a random example: what's 'vpopmail' doing there (no personal offense to the author, really randomly picked)? I mean, vpopmail has it's own deamon and an interface written in PHP (ok, that one is ugly, it depends on global variables and has to be rewritten), but why create a /compiled/ module for this? doesn't make sense to me. no gain in performance. and even the module is WORSE than the PHP interface, because it requires you to run PHP as CGI binary, fiddling around with sudo etc.. (whereas the PHP just opens a socket to the vpopmail-daemon, sends some commands etc..) i would not like to put any offense but you are technicaly wrong - the fastest way to access vpopmail functionality is to call native api instead execute something external. this can be observed on high loaded servers of course. one cannot skip the sudo stuff with vpopmail anyway - you must be root to manage domains, and at least vpopmail to manage users. when one really need to manage vpopmail at high web load she can compile a separate apache for the management site and run it under vpopmail instead using slow CGIs. prehapse you mess vpopmail with vmailmgr - the first one have management daemon, second does not (at least an official one). the third reason is the unified interface - vpopmail command line tools differ between versions and one have to tweak her script for each different version. about the first part of your email - i would vote with two hands for PEAR repository of php modules written in C, vpopmail extension's place is definitely there There's one alternative for each hand you vote with: PEAR or PECL. Extensions that go into PEAR have to follow PEAR's naming conventions, stuff in PECL does not. You find these two in CVS: pear and pear/PECL. - Stig -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Stig S. Bakken wrote: *SNIP* There's one alternative for each hand you vote with: PEAR or PECL. Extensions that go into PEAR have to follow PEAR's naming conventions, stuff in PECL does not. You find these two in CVS: pear and pear/PECL. - Stig I'm planning to write HTML form module. I guess it fit into PECL, I've read PEAR web, but I couldn't find description for PEAR C Module... (There is a little description about PECL in FAQ, though) Am I missing something? Thanks. -- Yasuo Ohgaki -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Björn Schotte wrote: [1]: anyone has a nice English expression for the german Schlipsträger? The common english expression for Schlipsträger is suit. Kristian -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Daniel Lorch wrote: or the more XML-style my-opinion what follows here is solely my own opinion /my-opinion Will you please pack your private markup into a (DTD-documented!) namespace and properly declare your namespace at the top of your messages? That would then be my:opinion xmlns:my=http://yourhomepage/opinion.dtd; what follows are my follies /my:opinion Thank you, Kris :-) -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, php.dev! Probably, someone would be interested in this... I have made an extension to PHP for dealing with templates. Feature list: - does not depend on any external library: pure C and Zend API - compiles in both PHP-4.0.6 and PHP-4.1.0RC3 (i have not yet tested it with RC5 though, but it should work) - unlimited number of template tags (sure, i even shouldn't be saying that) - unlimited number of dynamic blocks which are called contexts - unlimited nesting of contexts - unset template tags and contexts are replaced with empty string so they won't appear in result output - nice short and flexible API - some kind of error handling - it works at least on my RedHat 7.0 and Win2k Pro :) - probably something else what i forgot to put here... Source code, example, primitive documentation and precompiled modules for 4.0.6 version can be found here: http://www.e-taller.net/dev/templates/ Sorry for the doc, my phpdoc skills are zero, so i made a simple HTML. I promise to study it in the future. :) TODO list: - make it faster by using smart_string's instead of zval's - make it faster by implementing another text search algorythm - make it even more faster in some way which i don't know yet - write a nice documentation - anything else? you tell me All your feedback, comments, feature requests and especially bug reports are very appreciated. Thank you. Maxx -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, I'm totally interested. I want to write such an extension for PHP as my senior thesis for bachelor degree(hope this is the equivalent of diplomna rabota (.bg)) The news someone wrote it shaked me :))). However, maybe I'll write another one but don't know when (after a month or starting May 2002). Best wishes and regards. Andrey Hristov - Original Message - From: Maxx [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:29 PM Subject: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates Hi, php.dev! Probably, someone would be interested in this... I have made an extension to PHP for dealing with templates. Feature list: - does not depend on any external library: pure C and Zend API - compiles in both PHP-4.0.6 and PHP-4.1.0RC3 (i have not yet tested it with RC5 though, but it should work) - unlimited number of template tags (sure, i even shouldn't be saying that) - unlimited number of dynamic blocks which are called contexts - unlimited nesting of contexts - unset template tags and contexts are replaced with empty string so they won't appear in result output - nice short and flexible API - some kind of error handling - it works at least on my RedHat 7.0 and Win2k Pro :) - probably something else what i forgot to put here... Source code, example, primitive documentation and precompiled modules for 4.0.6 version can be found here: http://www.e-taller.net/dev/templates/ Sorry for the doc, my phpdoc skills are zero, so i made a simple HTML. I promise to study it in the future. :) TODO list: - make it faster by using smart_string's instead of zval's - make it faster by implementing another text search algorythm - make it even more faster in some way which i don't know yet - write a nice documentation - anything else? you tell me All your feedback, comments, feature requests and especially bug reports are very appreciated. Thank you. Maxx -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Maxx wrote:
- unset template tags and contexts are replaced with empty string
so they won't appear in result output
Is this user defineable? PHPLIB's template class knows
set_unknowns() method with parameters keep, remove
where keep will remain Stylesheets inside HTML (because
Stylesheet definitions also begin with { and end with }).
- anything else? you tell me
Feature set from PHPLIB's Template class.
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Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, it's nice to see that everyone wants to develop extensions for PHP, but why do these extension go all into the main CVS tree? why not keep PHP more modular? Daniel Lorch -UrsprØngliche Nachricht- Von: Andrey Hristov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001 Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates Hi, I'm totally interested. I want to write such an extension for PHP as my senior thesis for bachelor degree(hope this is the equivalent of diplomna rabota (.bg)) The news someone wrote it shaked me :))). However, maybe I'll write another one but don't know when (after a month or starting May 2002). Best wishes and regards. Andrey Hristov -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Björn Schotte wrote: - anything else? you tell me Feature set from PHPLIB's Template class. IT[X]-Style interface for blocks. regards Wagner -- Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, Andrey! Well, I am really sorry for your diplomnaia rabota. Do you want me to delete this one? :) Actually, nothing will happen if you're not going to show this to your teacher. :) Cheers Maxx Hi, I'm totally interested. I want to write such an extension for PHP as my senior thesis for bachelor degree(hope this is the equivalent of diplomna rabota (.bg)) The news someone wrote it shaked me :))). However, maybe I'll write another one but don't know when (after a month or starting May 2002). Best wishes and regards. Andrey Hristov -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[3]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, besides, what makes templates slow are either string-replacements or regular expressions and these are anyway core parts of PHP, thus making a module won't speed up anyting. better contribute to PEAR and write this template class in PHP - more transparency for other users. Kind Regards, Daniel Lorch -UrsprØngliche Nachricht- Von: Daniel Lorch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001 Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates Hi, it's nice to see that everyone wants to develop extensions for PHP, but why do these extension go all into the main CVS tree? why not keep PHP more modular? Daniel Lorch -UrsprØngliche Nachricht- Von: Andrey Hristov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001 Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates Hi, I'm totally interested. I want to write such an extension for PHP as my senior thesis for bachelor degree(hope this is the equivalent of diplomna rabota (.bg)) The news someone wrote it shaked me :))). However, maybe I'll write another one but don't know when (after a month or starting May 2002). Best wishes and regards. Andrey Hristov -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:15:29 +0100, Daniel Lorch wrote: it's nice to see that everyone wants to develop extensions for PHP, but why do these extension go all into the main CVS tree? why not keep PHP more modular? New extension (ike the one, we are talking about) will go to PEAR and will not be included in the main source tree (unless they are extremely important). Or did I miss something? - Martin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Maxx wrote:
- unlimited number of template tags (sure, i even shouldn't be saying
that)
I am fairly sure that someone will come up with the wish to make
the {}'s surrounding the name of the template tag configureable.
You may be tempted to provide a PHP function
template_set_braces()
or something like that to implement this. Don't.
A template shall contain all information necessary to parse it.
Besides
the contents for the template tags there shall be no external
references.
So if you must make the {}'s configureable, do so by providing
them
within the actual template as a property of the template. I
suggest
some special configuration tag which must be part of the first
line
of the template if it shall be present.
This way it is possible to execute other peoples templates
without
having to change ones own code.
Also, you'd most likely want to have an escape mechanism which
provides
you with an easy way to generate {} in your output even if the
template
tages are currently being frames by {}'s.
Finally, do NOT implement conditionals or loops. If you give in
to
anything that resembles control structures, you'll end up
creating
a turing complete language. This will sooner or later become a
PHP-
within-PHP and you'll want to avoid this at all cost. Conditions
and
loops must always be part of the controlling PHP code, never be
part
of the template. If a particular application does lend itself
well
to this kind of structure, then this particular applicastion
maybe
isn't properly structured for templates to be useful. Use pure
PHP
then.
Kristian
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Re[4]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, If I unterstood these guys correctly, they are developing a compiled PHP-module (/ext/template/ or whatever). If ONE person decides to do it, automatically some one else will not be able to contribute his sourcecode, what is actually not a good thing. Maybe, Andrey Hristov's code would be much better than the existing one, but it won't be accepted because the other one has already become de facto standard of PHP, and it's in the manual, nobody wants to change habits etc... Kind Regards, Daniel Lorch -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Jansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001 Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:15:29 +0100, Daniel Lorch wrote: it's nice to see that everyone wants to develop extensions for PHP, but why do these extension go all into the main CVS tree? why not keep PHP more modular? New extension (ike the one, we are talking about) will go to PEAR and will not be included in the main source tree (unless they are extremely important). Or did I miss something? - Martin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
I am fairly sure that someone will come up with the wish to make
the {}'s surrounding the name of the template tag configureable.
You may be tempted to provide a PHP function
template_set_braces()
or something like that to implement this. Don't.
This is already done in tmpl_open() function. You may pass an array with
template tag delimiters and context name.
Finally, do NOT implement conditionals or loops. If you give in to
anything that resembles control structures, you'll end up creating
a turing complete language. This will sooner or later become a PHP-
within-PHP and you'll want to avoid this at all cost. Conditions and
loops must always be part of the controlling PHP code, never be part
of the template. If a particular application does lend itself well
to this kind of structure, then this particular applicastion maybe
isn't properly structured for templates to be useful. Use pure PHP
then.
Agree. That's exactly what I've been thinking.
Actually, I believe that functionality that we have now, is enough for
almost any kind of task when working with templates.
If you don't want a tag to appear, just do not assign any value to it.
I suppose, we can consider this as the simplest conditional, so there's no
need for anything else.
Maxx
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Re[5]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, It's nice having an out-of-the-box solution - everything just works fine, just load the module (i.e. uncomment # in php.ini). Nevertheless, who actually decides how a module's interface is designed? I know, there are some guidelines, but this still ressembles too much to anarchy in my eyes. What belongs into PEAR and what has to be done as module? IMHO, a programming language gives the user essential basic abilities, such as creating sockets, file system access, of course providing a syntax, memory mangement etc.. and then it's up to the PHP developer to create additional modules. This will provide better transparency to the end-developer as he will be able to look at the PEAR-sourcecodes and actually /understand/ what is being done. Why does every PHP developer has to know C only to understand how such modules work? Too many modules were developed lately. Why not add a daniel-module which only serves my needs, but goes into the main CVS tree? Correct me, if I'm wrong. Your opinions please :) Daniel Lorch -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Daniel Lorch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001 Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates Hi, If I unterstood these guys correctly, they are developing a compiled PHP-module (/ext/template/ or whatever). If ONE person decides to do it, automatically some one else will not be able to contribute his sourcecode, what is actually not a good thing. Maybe, Andrey Hristov's code would be much better than the existing one, but it won't be accepted because the other one has already become de facto standard of PHP, and it's in the manual, nobody wants to change habits etc... Kind Regards, Daniel Lorch -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Jansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001 Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:15:29 +0100, Daniel Lorch wrote: it's nice to see that everyone wants to develop extensions for PHP, but why do these extension go all into the main CVS tree? why not keep PHP more modular? New extension (ike the one, we are talking about) will go to PEAR and will not be included in the main source tree (unless they are extremely important). Or did I miss something? - Martin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[3]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
besides, what makes templates slow are either string-replacements or regular expressions and these are anyway core parts of PHP, thus making a module won't speed up anyting. better contribute to PEAR and write this template class in PHP - more transparency for other users. Unfortunately, I can not agree with you, Daniel. Before making the module, I've been looking through some PHP libraries dealing with templates. Next, I made a simplest PHP class which works much faster than any of the existing libraries (http://www.e-taller.net/dev/obtemplate/). I made some tests using Web Stress Tool and can provide you with results. However, the test was very simple too. Probably, I had to do more complex testing. Also, I have tested this module and it showed the fastest result. And I am sure, when I implement another parsing algorythm and get rid of most emalloc()'s and efree()'s, it will work even much faster. Please, correct me if I am wrong... With best regards Maxx -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 03:20:12PM +0100, Daniel Lorch wrote : besides, what makes templates slow are either string-replacements or regular expressions and these are anyway core parts of PHP, thus making a module won't speed up anyting. better contribute to PEAR and write this template class in PHP - more transparency for other users. Daniel, no offending, but what you write makes completely no sense at all. A c-module is as fast as an extension in PHP. Why? It's the same. It just hangs out in PEAR in the CVS tree. And of course its faster then anything written in PHP. Think you mixed up things a bit. - Markus -- Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Idiot I am wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Erm, of course if that extension would be as powerful as PHPLIB's Template, IT[X] and Smarty together. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[5]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Daniel Lorch wrote: Hi, It's nice having an out-of-the-box solution - everything just works fine, just load the module (i.e. uncomment # in php.ini). Nevertheless, who actually decides how a module's interface is designed? I know, there are some guidelines, but this still ressembles too much to anarchy in my eyes. What belongs into PEAR and what has to be done as module? IMHO, a programming language gives the user essential basic abilities, such as creating sockets, file system access, of course providing a syntax, memory mangement etc.. and then it's up to the PHP developer to create additional modules. This will provide better transparency to the end-developer as he will be able to look at the PEAR-sourcecodes and actually /understand/ what is being done. Why does every PHP developer has to know C only to understand how such modules work? Too many modules were developed lately. Why not add a daniel-module which only serves my needs, but goes into the main CVS tree? Correct me, if I'm wrong. Your opinions please :) You are correct. Please revisit the archives of the now defunct php-template mailing list and read through all the flamewars that went on there. At the end we agreed that no default template solution would be bundled with PHP. -Andrei Politics is for the moment, an equation is for eternity. -- Albert Einstein -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. -Andrei For society, it's probably a good thing that engineers value function over appearance. For example, you wouldn't want engineers to build nuclear power plants that only _look_ like they would keep all the radiation inside. (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle) -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Andrei Zmievski wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. Why? Björn. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: * Andrei Zmievski wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. Why? See my previous message. -Andrei When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes. -- Erasmus -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[4]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
I don't think that If I wrote an extension it will go into the public because the
rights on it are owned by the university I study.
It will never be GPLed if not rewritten after I get the degree.
Yes, it's true that from time to time the first makes the standarts but it users are
unhappy he/she fails.
Look at this, if I have to use {some_thing}, how can I write some text which includes
{, the template engine will delete everything
to the }.
Regards,
Andrey Hristov
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Lorch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:26 PM
Subject: Re[4]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi,
If I unterstood these guys correctly, they are developing a compiled
PHP-module (/ext/template/ or whatever). If ONE person decides to do
it, automatically some one else will not be able to contribute his
sourcecode, what is actually not a good thing. Maybe, Andrey Hristov's
code would be much better than the existing one, but it won't be
accepted because the other one has already become de facto standard of
PHP, and it's in the manual, nobody wants to change habits etc...
Kind Regards,
Daniel Lorch
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Martin Jansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001
Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:15:29 +0100, Daniel Lorch wrote:
it's nice to see that everyone wants to develop extensions for PHP,
but why do these extension go all into the main CVS tree? why not keep
PHP more modular?
New extension (ike the one, we are talking about) will go to PEAR
and will not be included in the main source tree (unless they
are extremely important). Or did I miss something?
- Martin
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Re: Re[5]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Andrei Zmievski wrote: on there. At the end we agreed that no default template solution would be bundled with PHP. In fact you did that with IT[X] in PEAR. :-) But for the sake of having no flame war again it would be better to put this extension into PECL. -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. I agree with Andrei here. If an templating extension is bundled with PHP, it becomes the 'defacto supported' template engine. In other words, we will say that this is the best template engine, because it is bundled with PHP. Derick -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. +1, the only exception I might make would be Smarty as it is well designed and a lot of people use it but I dont think even smarty has a place in the PHP Distribution. - James -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[5]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: * Andrei Zmievski wrote: on there. At the end we agreed that no default template solution would be bundled with PHP. In fact you did that with IT[X] in PEAR. :-) I have nothing to do with IT[X}. :) -Andrei The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. -- George Carlin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Andrei here. If an templating extension is bundled with PHP, it becomes the 'defacto supported' template engine. In other words, we will say that this is the best template engine, because it is bundled with PHP. Yes, and it will hurt my feelings too. :) -Andrei * If it's never finished, you can't prove it doesn't work. * -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[4]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Yes, it's true that from time to time the first makes the standarts but it
users are unhappy he/she fails.
Look at this, if I have to use {some_thing}, how can I write some text
which includes {, the template engine will delete everything
to the }.
It's true. But by now you may want to call
tmpl_open(filename.html, array({{, }}));
or
tmpl_open(filename.html, array(%%%, |||)); :)))
...and the template will be just parsed fine.
However, the comment about keeping template's info in the same template
(i.e. delimiters, context tag names and probably something else) is a good
idea.
I think this should be done in the next version.
Maxx
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Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, James Moore wrote: +1, the only exception I might make would be Smarty as it is well designed and a lot of people use it but I dont think even smarty has a place in the PHP Distribution. Perhaps in PEAR, but you are correct. -Andrei Complexity in the mind is not caused by learning; learning is caused by complexity in the mind. -- Steven Pinker -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
hi, besides, what makes templates slow are either string-replacements or regular expressions and these are anyway core parts of PHP, thus making a module won't speed up anyting. better contribute to PEAR and write this template class in PHP - more transparency for other users. Daniel, no offending, but what you write makes completely no sense at all. A c-module is as fast as an extension in PHP. Why? It's the same. It just hangs out in PEAR in the CVS tree. And of course its faster then anything written in PHP. it's not about the template extension in particular - I'd be very pleased if such a module finds it's way to the main CVS tree because template-ing is the only thing remaining which causes big headaches to me (templates VS includes VS write static HTML). I was thinking about this because I was inspired by CPAN (Perl). of course, PHP is an all-purpose language like perl, but PHP has matured and there I am just missing some real guidelines. of course I unterstand that I'm just complaining around and not actually doing anything productive, and everyone is pleased when someone actually develops an extension in his or her free time, but .. well .. when I look at /ext/ (PHP source) just to pick a random example: what's 'vpopmail' doing there (no personal offense to the author, really randomly picked)? I mean, vpopmail has it's own deamon and an interface written in PHP (ok, that one is ugly, it depends on global variables and has to be rewritten), but why create a /compiled/ module for this? doesn't make sense to me. no gain in performance. and even the module is WORSE than the PHP interface, because it requires you to run PHP as CGI binary, fiddling around with sudo etc.. (whereas the PHP just opens a socket to the vpopmail-daemon, sends some commands etc..) anyone interested in /ext/daniel/ printing out some greetings to my friends? how about daniel_greet_his_friends(); and daniel_send_email_to_his_friends(), etc? Kind Regards, Daniel Lorch -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:17:29 +0100 (CET), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. I agree with Andrei here. If an templating extension is bundled with PHP, it becomes the 'defacto supported' template engine. In other words, we will say that this is the best template engine, because it is bundled with PHP. I'm also not sure, if the template extension is important enought to be bundled with PHP and I think, that it might fit better in PEAR, but: What is with PEAR DB? Is it also the defacto standard, because it is bundled with PHP? - Martin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Maxx wrote: However, the comment about keeping template's info in the same template (i.e. delimiters, context tag names and probably something else) is a good idea. I think this should be done in the next version. Fear the installed base. Delete NOW all features you do not want to support until the end of your life. As soon as there is code using these parameters to your open call, you'll have to support them for compatibility reasons. You'll almost never get rid of them. Kristian -- Kristian Köhntopp, NetUSE AG, Dr.-Hell-Straße, D-24107 Kiel Tel: +49 431 386 435 00, Fax: +49 431 386 435 99 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Björn Schotte wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Why would that be? PHP lived happily without it up to now. Let's keep it that way. -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Andrei Zmievski wrote: At the end we agreed that no default template solution would be bundled with PHP. Which makes sense, since PHP itself was conceived originally as a template engine, if I may quote Rasmus :-) I don't see the need for the 23042th template solution in or for PHP, the future belongs to XML and XSL(T) anyhow. I'd love to see Smarty in PEAR, though, besides PHPLIB's Template class and IT[X]. Just my 2 euro cents, Sebastian -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Björn Schotte wrote: Erm, of course if that extension would be as powerful as PHPLIB's Template, IT[X] and Smarty together. What I'd really like would be a C version of Smarty alongside its PHP implementation in PEAR. -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Sebastian Bergmann wrote: I don't see the need for the 23042th template solution in or for PHP, the future belongs to XML and XSL(T) anyhow. Web designers and pixel movers are yet too dumb to check how XSL(T) works. So they prefer template solutions like PHPLIB/IT[X], as Smarty is only usable for programmers (and as Kris said, a template engine should not be a full fledged turing engine). -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: Web designers and pixel movers are yet too dumb to check how XSL(T) works. So they prefer template solutions like PHPLIB/IT[X], as Smarty is only usable for programmers (and as Kris said, a template engine should not be a full fledged turing engine). I am sorry, but *that* is your opinion. Not everyone subscribes to it. -Andrei Perl - the only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption. -Keith Bostic -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Sebastian Bergmann wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Why would that be? Political reasons[2]. Template engine? No problem, it is integrated into PHP - cravatti[1]: Oh, that's nice, let's choose PHP [1]: anyone has a nice English expression for the german Schlipsträger? [2]: this is the same reason why I would like to see application wide variables like shared $a; and not per-session variables (no, dealing with SHM, XML-RPC, SOAP and so on is not a good way because IMHO it's the task of the language itself). -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Andrei Zmievski wrote: I am sorry, but *that* is your opinion. Sebastian asked for my opinion. Where's the problem? -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Björn Schotte wrote: Web designers and pixel movers are yet too dumb to check how XSL(T) works. Then make the world a better place (and some money in the process) and train those guys :-) -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: * Andrei Zmievski wrote: I am sorry, but *that* is your opinion. Sebastian asked for my opinion. Where's the problem? It would have been nice to add IMHO at the end of your statement then. -Andrei The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I will walk carefully. -- Russian proverb -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Andrei Zmievski wrote: Sebastian asked for my opinion. Where's the problem? It would have been nice to add IMHO at the end of your statement then. It should be self-evident that most things are IMHO. So I don't see the reason why you're trying to make a problem out of that. -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Make it experimental Then : This module is EXPERIMENTAL. That means, that the behaviour of these functions, these function names, in concreto ANYTHING documented here can change in a future release of PHP WITHOUT NOTICE. Be warned, and use this module at your own risk. Regards, Andrey - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Andrei Zmievski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Björn Schotte [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Martin Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daniel Lorch [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:17 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. I agree with Andrei here. If an templating extension is bundled with PHP, it becomes the 'defacto supported' template engine. In other words, we will say that this is the best template engine, because it is bundled with PHP. Derick -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Björn Schotte wrote: Political reasons[2]. Template engine? No problem, it is integrated into PHP - cravatti[1]: Oh, that's nice, let's choose PHP [1]: anyone has a nice English expression for the german Schlipsträger? Pointy haired boss? regards Wagner -- Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: It should be self-evident that most things are IMHO. So I don't see the reason why you're trying to make a problem out of that. One thing I try to avoid is making assumptions, because most of the world's problems come from that. -Andrei The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. -- George Carlin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Andrei Zmievski wrote: One thing I try to avoid is making assumptions, because most of the world's problems come from that. So perhaps you should make an RfC for inserting a (IMHO) after every word in every sentence of a posting to php-dev to satisfy your soul. -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[4]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, face it: people don't pay attention to this, get used to the module, bigger projects suddenly rely on this experimental module making this module automatically standard. Kind Regards, Daniel Lorch -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Andrey Hristov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Datum : Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2001 Betreff: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates Make it experimental Then : This module is EXPERIMENTAL. That means, that the behaviour of these functions, these function names, in concreto ANYTHING documented here can change in a future release of PHP WITHOUT NOTICE. Be warned, and use this module at your own risk. Regards, Andrey -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Björn Schotte wrote: * Sebastian Bergmann wrote: I don't see the need for the 23042th template solution in or for PHP, the future belongs to XML and XSL(T) anyhow. Web designers and pixel movers are yet too dumb to check how XSL(T) works. Ack. So they prefer template solutions like PHPLIB/IT[X], as Smarty is only usable for programmers (and as Kris said, a template engine should not be a full fledged turing engine). You have a point here, but you're not necessarily right. Smarty templates are more complex than IT[X]/PHPlib-style templates, but still easier than XSL, and not all designers are that dumb. I think IT[X]-style templates are more important, but I wouldn't object to having both. regards Wagner -- Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi,
One thing I try to avoid is making assumptions, because most of the
world's problems come from that.
So perhaps you should make an RfC for inserting a (IMHO)
after every word in every sentence of a posting to php-dev
to satisfy your soul.
actually we should declare some prototype. how about the good ol'
template style:
{IMHO: this is my opinion}
or the more XML-style
my-opinion
what follows here is solely my own opinion
/my-opinion
maybe even someone wants to write a PHP module for it, allowing
opinion_insert($who, $message);
opinion_insert(daniel lorch, my opinion);
now THATs a good idea.
Kind Regards,
Daniel Lorch
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Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Alexander Wagner wrote: You have a point here, but you're not necessarily right. Smarty templates are more complex than IT[X]/PHPlib-style templates, but still easier than XSL, and not all designers are that dumb. I think IT[X]-style templates are more important, but I wouldn't object to having both. I once again will say the following, and while I add IMHO here, I have been working on Web apps over 5 years now, with and without designers, HTML programmers, and other various team members: Smarty is as easy to use as you want to make it. No one forces you and your pixel pushers to use presentation logic. Stick to just variable displays and be happy. -Andrei * I don't mind going nowhere as long as it's an interesting path. * -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
* Alexander Wagner wrote: for programmers (and as Kris said, a template engine should not be a full fledged turing engine). You have a point here, but you're not necessarily right. Ack. It depends on the skills of the pixel mover, but I was talking about real pixel movers who have no affinity for programming. Smarty templates are more complex than IT[X]/PHPlib-style templates, but still easier than XSL, and not all designers are that dumb. Ack. I think IT[X]-style templates are more important, but I wouldn't object to having both. I wouldn't object either. -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi, Web designers and pixel movers are yet too dumb to check how XSL(T) works. Ack. the average pixel mover doesn't even know how to code HTML, what doesn't keep them from creating webpages. sooner or later all major companies (macromedia, adobe ..) will include XSLT-export to their WYSIWYG editors. believe me, XML is the new buzzword allowing companies to sell virtually everything. Kind Regards, Daniel Lorch -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Andrei Zmievski wrote: On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Alexander Wagner wrote: You have a point here, but you're not necessarily right. Smarty templates are more complex than IT[X]/PHPlib-style templates, but still easier than XSL, and not all designers are that dumb. I think IT[X]-style templates are more important, but I wouldn't object to having both. I once again will say the following, and while I add IMHO here, I have been working on Web apps over 5 years now, with and without designers, HTML programmers, and other various team members: Smarty is as easy to use as you want to make it. No one forces you and your pixel pushers to use presentation logic. Stick to just variable displays and be happy. Exactly. Thats why it is called a feature. It's optional, so just don't use it if it is too difficult to explain to your designers. Joao -- João Prado Maia [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://phpbrasil.com - php com um jeitinho brasileiro -- Precisando de consultoria em desenvolvimento para a Internet ? Impleo.net - http://impleo.net/?lang=br -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: It should be self-evident that most things are IMHO. So I don't see the reason why you're trying to make a problem out of that. One thing I try to avoid is making assumptions, because most of the world's problems come from that. As my old man always said... Assume makes an ass out of U and Me... be clear in what you are saying and what you mean as people may take it the wrong way if you are not. - James -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Proposal : libmyopinion.o (*heh*)
Regards,
Andrey
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Lorch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:36 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Hi,
One thing I try to avoid is making assumptions, because most of the
world's problems come from that.
So perhaps you should make an RfC for inserting a (IMHO)
after every word in every sentence of a posting to php-dev
to satisfy your soul.
actually we should declare some prototype. how about the good ol'
template style:
{IMHO: this is my opinion}
or the more XML-style
my-opinion
what follows here is solely my own opinion
/my-opinion
maybe even someone wants to write a PHP module for it, allowing
opinion_insert($who, $message);
opinion_insert(daniel lorch, my opinion);
now THATs a good idea.
Kind Regards,
Daniel Lorch
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Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
hi, Daniel, no offending, but what you write makes completely no sense at all. A c-module is as fast as an extension in PHP. Why? It's the same. It just hangs out in PEAR in the CVS tree. And of course its faster then anything written in PHP. I was just thinking about the performance argument: If you really care about performance, why not write your whole page directly in C, instead of using slow, parsed PHP code? Doesn't make sense to me, either. Kind Regards, Daniel Lorch -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
All functions are external for the language. A C program can live without any function( except for main). Some things can me made without using of function. When I use stdio.h I think that protos which resides there are not part of the language. I had a CS course where the lector showed us what is C and without using any function. I don't think that any of the template functions is different from array_push for example it's not PHP it is external function. I can live without array_push, implode and some others, so someone else can live without templtes_* functions. Regards, Andrey Hristov - Original Message - From: Andrei Zmievski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Björn Schotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Martin Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daniel Lorch [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates On Wed, 05 Dec 2001, Björn Schotte wrote: * Andrei Zmievski wrote: I suggest ext/template being extemely important. Sorry, but I am completely against it. Why? See my previous message. -Andrei When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes. -- Erasmus -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[4]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Daniel Lorch wrote: Hi, face it: people don't pay attention to this, get used to the module, bigger projects suddenly rely on this experimental module making this module automatically standard. Exactly my point. Derick -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 05:51:52PM +0100, Daniel Lorch wrote : hi, Daniel, no offending, but what you write makes completely no sense at all. A c-module is as fast as an extension in PHP. Why? It's the same. It just hangs out in PEAR in the CVS tree. And of course its faster then anything written in PHP. I was just thinking about the performance argument: If you really care about performance, why not write your whole page directly in C, instead of using slow, parsed PHP code? Doesn't make sense to me, either. Yeah, absurd 'thinking' you did obviously, doesn't make sense to me either ;-) - Markus -- Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
Alexander Wagner wrote: Björn Schotte wrote: - anything else? you tell me Feature set from PHPLIB's Template class. IT[X]-Style interface for blocks. Hmm, I know about someone that implemented IT[X] in C. Well not 100% IT[X] but 95% of it. Maybe some fine day when we both have lot's of time IT[X] will become a simple wrapper on yet another template extension... Ulf -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
hi Daniel, when I look at /ext/ (PHP source) just to pick a random example: what's 'vpopmail' doing there (no personal offense to the author, really randomly picked)? I mean, vpopmail has it's own deamon and an interface written in PHP (ok, that one is ugly, it depends on global variables and has to be rewritten), but why create a /compiled/ module for this? doesn't make sense to me. no gain in performance. and even the module is WORSE than the PHP interface, because it requires you to run PHP as CGI binary, fiddling around with sudo etc.. (whereas the PHP just opens a socket to the vpopmail-daemon, sends some commands etc..) i would not like to put any offense but you are technicaly wrong - the fastest way to access vpopmail functionality is to call native api instead execute something external. this can be observed on high loaded servers of course. one cannot skip the sudo stuff with vpopmail anyway - you must be root to manage domains, and at least vpopmail to manage users. when one really need to manage vpopmail at high web load she can compile a separate apache for the management site and run it under vpopmail instead using slow CGIs. prehapse you mess vpopmail with vmailmgr - the first one have management daemon, second does not (at least an official one). the third reason is the unified interface - vpopmail command line tools differ between versions and one have to tweak her script for each different version. about the first part of your email - i would vote with two hands for PEAR repository of php modules written in C, vpopmail extension's place is definitely there anyone interested in /ext/daniel/ printing out some greetings to my friends? how about daniel_greet_his_friends(); and daniel_send_email_to_his_friends(), etc? :)) b. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] [NEW EXTENSTION]: templates
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 05:11:13PM +0100, Daniel Lorch wrote: by the way, anyone got an idea what Z.E.N.D. stands for? ZEev aNDi ... last I had heard, anyway. -- Jon Parise ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) . Information Technology (2001) http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/ : Computer Science House Member -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
